Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Microsoft Makes Millions Renting Campus Space to Vendors

timothy posted about a year and a half ago | from the hey-so-does-harvard dept.

Businesses 95

theodp writes "In a move that would do Bill Lumbergh (YouTube homage) proud, Microsoft has been pulling in about $25 million a year through its unusual practice of charging its vendors for occupying office space on its campus while working on Microsoft projects, according to the real estate firm that manages the program. And that's before a planned July 1st rate increase that Microsoft informed vendors of earlier this week, which will boost the 'chargeback' rate for its 'shadow workforce' from $450 per month ($5,400 per year) for every workstation to $510 per month (or $6,120 per year). So, is there a discount if you're moved downstairs into Storage B?"

cancel ×


Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Kinda like Fox News (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43317587)

Red meat of Slashdot is getting people riled up about Microsoft.

Re:Kinda like Fox News (4, Insightful)

kurt555gs (309278) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317685)

As opposed to paid Microsoft shills and astroturfers posting their lies and modding down anyone who posts the truth about that evil empire?

Re:Kinda like Fox News (-1)

recoiledsnake (879048) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317849)


What "truth about that evil empire" is getting modded down?

If you think Microsoft is astroturfing this site with its dying readership(thanks to chasing away rational people and posting bullshit stories), you're delusional.

Re:Kinda like Fox News (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43318497)

And if you don't think Microsoft has been paying Burson Marsteller, Waggener Edstrom et al to astroturf online tech discssion sites, you're willfully ignorant. Their sockpuppets have been exposed many times, as has the evidence of their ongoing campaigns..

Re:Kinda like Fox News (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43324339)

So where is the proof? And by proof I don't mean some tin-foil nutters opinion. I mean actual proof. Like an email, or a memo or anything vaguely substantial. Apparently Microsoft, which can't even avoid leaks surrounding its major products is so awesome at hiding this. Boggles the mind..
Ofcource, there is an alternate much simplier explanation. That no such astroturfing has taken place except in the minds of anti-ms trolls.

Re:Kinda like Fox News (1)

Gr8Apes (679165) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319193)

Yeah, if there were only a better site out there. REDDIT is not it, and anything like FB, Twitter, or Google anything is not going to suffice for a variety of reasons. Yes, I too bemoan the lower quality posting here, sometimes there are interesting nuggets. For myself, visits are sporadic at best, nonexistent at worst (from the site's perspective)

Re:Kinda like Fox News (1)

Anonymous Psychopath (18031) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318481)

As opposed to paid Microsoft shills and astroturfers posting their lies and modding down anyone who posts the truth about that evil empire?

I don't work for Microsoft (I'm with the networking evil empire) but I still know a bullshit story about a common practice when I see one.

Re:Kinda like Fox News (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319109)

I can't even count how many modded-up posts I've read talking about how many Microsoft shills there on Slashdot.

Re:Kinda like Fox News (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43320741)

As opposed to paid Microsoft shills and astroturfers posting their lies and modding down anyone who posts the truth about that evil empire?

Where do I sign up? If I could get paid to troll you freetards, that would, like, be the ultimate job.

Re:Kinda like Fox News (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43334337)

As opposed to paid Microsoft shills and astroturfers posting their lies and modding down anyone who posts the truth about that evil empire?

Yes look at them all modding you down! Wow! There must be a lot of them out there if you're at +4 Insightful!
The idiocy of karma whoring posts like this is astounding by the simple fact that they disprove your point entirely.

Re:Kinda like Fox News (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43317741)

I think your irrarional hatred and misunderstanding of Fox News has left you confused. The ariticle is from geekwire.

But don't worry, one day we may have the world you want where fox is gone and all we have are channels like cnn and msnbc that push a pro-statist message daily.

Re:Kinda like Fox News (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43317809)

It's not irrational to hate a news station that lies constantly. Fox News lies orders of magnitude more than any other station.

Re:Kinda like Fox News (1)

buybuydandavis (644487) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320665)

No. Probably less than most stations. It's just that their lies are different from the lies you're used to.

Re:Kinda like Fox News (1)

tylikcat (1578365) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318083)

One does not have to buy into either side of this particular binary reality. ...thankfully.

Slashdot moderation infiltrated by impostor... apk (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43317611)

A corrupt slashdot luser has infiltrated the moderation system to downmod all my posts while impersonating me.

Nearly 180++ times that I know of @ this point for all of March 2013 so far, & others here have told you to stop - take the hint, lunatic (leave slashdot)...

Sorry folks - but whoever the nutjob is that's attempting to impersonate me, & upset the rest of you as well, has SERIOUS mental issues, no questions asked! I must've gotten the better of him + seriously "gotten his goat" in doing so in a technical debate & his "geek angst" @ losing to me has him doing the:


A.) $10,000 challenges, ala (where the imposter actually TRACKED + LISTED the # of times he's done this no less, & where I get the 180 or so times I noted above) -> []


B.) Reposting OLD + possibly altered models - (this I haven't checked on as to altering the veracity of the info. being changed) of posts of mine from the past here


(Albeit massively repeatedly thru all threads on /. this March 2013 nearly in its entirety thusfar).

* Personally, I'm surprised the moderation staff here hasn't just "blocked out" his network range yet honestly!

(They know it's NOT the same as my own as well, especially after THIS post of mine, which they CAN see the IP range I am coming out of to compare with the ac spamming troll doing the above...).


P.S.=> Again/Stressing it: NO guys - it is NOT me doing it, as I wouldn't waste that much time on such trivial b.s. like a kid might...

Plus, I only post where hosts file usage is on topic or appropriate for a solution & certainly NOT IN EVERY POST ON SLASHDOT (like the nutcase trying to "impersonate me" is doing for nearly all of March now, & 180++ times that I know of @ least)... apk

P.S.=> here is CORRECT host file information just to piss off the insane lunatic troll:


21++ ADVANTAGES OF CUSTOM HOSTS FILES (how/what/when/where/why):

Over AdBlock & DNS Servers ALONE 4 Security, Speed, Reliability, & Anonymity (to an extent vs. DNSBL's + DNS request logs).

1.) HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program). A truly "multi-platform" UNIVERSAL solution for added speed, security, reliability, & even anonymity to an extent (vs. DNS request logs + DNSBL's you feel are unjust hosts get you past/around).

2.) Adblock blocks ads? Well, not anymore & certainly not as well by default, apparently, lol - see below:

Adblock Plus To Offer 'Acceptable Ads' Option [] )

AND, in only browsers & their subprogram families (ala email like Thunderbird for FireFox/Mozilla products (use same gecko & xulrunner engines)), but not all, or, all independent email clients, like Outlook, Outlook Express, OR Window "LIVE" mail (for example(s)) - there's many more like EUDORA & others I've used over time that AdBlock just DOES NOT COVER... period.

Disclaimer: Opera now also has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF or Chrome etc..

3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF (non-mozilla/gecko engine based) family based wares, So AdBlock doesn't protect email programs like Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows "LIVE" mail & others like them (EUDORA etc./et al), Hosts files do. THIS IS GOOD VS. SPAM MAIL or MAILS THAT BEAR MALICIOUS SCRIPT, or, THAT POINT TO MALICIOUS SCRIPT VIA URLS etc.

4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 5-7 next below).

5.) Adblock doesn't allow you to hardcode in your favorite websites into it so you don't make DNS server calls and so you can avoid tracking by DNS request logs, OR make you reach them faster since you resolve host-domain names LOCALLY w/ hosts out of cached memory, hosts do ALL of those things (DNS servers are also being abused by the Chinese lately and by the Kaminsky flaw -> [] for years now). Hosts protect against those problems via hardcodes of your fav sites (you should verify against the TLD that does nothing but cache IPAddress-to-domainname/hostname resolutions ( via NSLOOKUP, PINGS (ping -a in Windows), &/or WHOIS though, regularly, so you have the correct IP & it's current)).

* NOW - Some folks MAY think that putting an IP address alone into your browser's address bar will be enough, so why bother with HOSTS, right? WRONG - Putting IP address in your browser won't always work IS WHY. Some IP adresses host several domains & need the site name to give you the right page you're after is why. So for some sites only the HOSTS file option will work!

6.) Hosts files don't eat up CPU cycles (or ELECTRICITY) like AdBlock does while it parses a webpages' content, nor as much as a DNS server does while it runs. HOSTS file are merely a FILTER for the kernel mode/PnP TCP/IP subsystem, which runs FAR FASTER & MORE EFFICIENTLY than any ring 3/rpl3/usermode app can since hosts files run in MORE EFFICIENT & FASTER Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode operations acting merely as a filter for the IP stack (via the "Plug-N-Play" designed IP stack in Windows) vs. SLOWER & LESS EFFICIENT Ring 3/RPL 3/Usermode operations (which webbrowsers run in + their addons like AdBlock slow down even MORESO due to their parsing operations).

7.) HOSTS files will allow you to get to sites you like, via hardcoding your favs into a HOSTS file, FAR faster than remote DNS servers can by FAR (by saving the roundtrip inquiry time to a DNS server, typically 30-100's of ms, vs. 7-10ms HardDisk speed of access/seek + SSD seek in ns, & back to you - hosts resolutions of IP address for host-domain names is FAR faster...). Hosts are only a filter for an already fast & efficient IP stack, no more layered b.s. (remote OR local). Hosts eat less CPU, RAM, I/O in other forms, + electricity than a locally running DNS server easily, and less than a local DNS program on a single PC. Fact. Hosts are easier to setup & maintain too.

8.) AdBlock doesn't let you block out known bad sites or servers that are known to be maliciously scripted, hosts can and many reputable lists for this exist:

Spybot "Search & Destroy" IMMUNIZE feature (fortifies HOSTS files with KNOWN bad servers blocked)

And yes: Even SLASHDOT &/or The Register help!

(Via articles on security (when the source articles they use are "detailed" that is, & list the servers/sites involved in attempting to bushwhack others online that is... not ALL do!)).

2 examples thereof in the past I have used, & noted it there, are/were: [] []

9.) AdBlock & DNS servers are programs, and subject to bugs programs can get. Hosts files are merely a filter and not a program, thus not subject to bugs of the nature just discussed.

10.) HOSTS files protect you vs. DNS-poisoning &/or the Kaminsky flaw in DNS servers, and allow you to get to sites reliably vs. things like the Chinese are doing to DNS -> []

11.) HOSTS files are EASILY user controlled, obtained (for reliable ones -> [] ) & edited too, via texteditors like Windows notepad.exe or Linux nano (etc.)

12.) With Adblock you had better be able to code javascript to play with its code (to customize it better than the GUI front does @ least). With hosts you don't even need source to control it (edit, update, delete, insert of new entries via a text editor).

13.) Hosts files are easily secured via using MAC/ACL (even moreso "automagically" for Vista, 7/Server 2008 + beyond by UAC by default) &/or Read-Only attributes applied.

14.) Custom HOSTS files also speed you up, unlike anonymous proxy servers systems variations (like TOR, or other "highly anonymous" proxy server list servers typically do, in the severe speed hit they often have a cost in) either via "hardcoding" your fav. sites into your hosts file (avoids DNS servers, totally) OR blocking out adbanners - see this below for evidence of that:


US Military Blocks Websites To Free Up Bandwidth: []

(Yes, even the US Military used this type of technique... because IT WORKS! Most of what they blocked? Ad banners ala doubleclick etc.)


Adbanners slow you down & consume your bandwidth YOU pay for:



And people do NOT LIKE ads on the web:



As well as this:

Users Know Advertisers Watch Them, and Hate It: []


Even WORSE still, is this:

Advertising Network Caught History Stealing: []


15.) HOSTS files usage lets you avoid being charged on some ISP/BSP's (OR phone providers) "pay as you use" policy [] , because you are using less bandwidth (& go faster doing so no less) by NOT hauling in adbanner content and processing it (which can lead to infestation by malware/malicious script, in & of itself -> [] ).

16.) If/when ISP/BSP's decide to go to -> FCC Approving Pay-As-You-Go Internet Plans: [] your internet bill will go DOWN if you use a HOSTS file for blocking adbanners as well as maliciously scripted hacker/cracker malware maker sites too (after all - it's your money & time online downloading adbanner content & processing it)

Plus, your adbanner content? Well, it may also be hijacked with malicious code too mind you:


Yahoo, Microsoft's Bing display toxic ads: []


Malware torrent delivered over Google, Yahoo! ad services: []


Google's DoubleClick spreads malicious ads (again): []


Rogue ads infiltrate Expedia and Rhapsody: []


Google sponsored links caught punting malware: []


DoubleClick caught supplying malware-tainted ads: []


Yahoo feeds Trojan-laced ads to MySpace and PhotoBucket users: []


Real Media attacks real people via RealPlayer: []


Ad networks owned by Google, Microsoft serve malware: []


Attacks Targeting Classified Ad Sites Surge: []


Hackers Respond To Help Wanted Ads With Malware: []


Hackers Use Banner Ads on Major Sites to Hijack Your PC: []


Ruskie gang hijacks Microsoft network to push penis pills: []


Major ISPs Injecting Ads, Vulnerabilities Into Web: []


Two Major Ad Networks Found Serving Malware: []












London Stock Exchange Web Site Serving Malware: []


Spotify splattered with malware-tainted ads: []


As my list "multiple evidences thereof" as to adbanners & viruses + the fact they slow you down & cost you more (from reputable & reliable sources no less)).

17.) Per point #16, a way to save some money: ANDROID phones can also use the HOSTS FILE TO KEEP DOWN BILLABLE TIME ONLINE, vs. adbanners or malware such as this:


Infected Androids Run Up Big Texting Bills: []


AND, for protection vs. other "botnets" migrating from the PC world, to "smartphones" such as ZITMO (a ZEUS botnet variant): []


It's easily done too, via the ADB dev. tool, & mounting ANDROID OS' system mountpoint for system/etc as READ + WRITE/ADMIN-ROOT PERMISSIONS, then copying your new custom HOSTS over the old one using ADB PULL/ADB PUSH to do so (otherwise ANDROID complains of "this file cannot be overwritten on production models of this Operating System", or something very along those lines - this way gets you around that annoyance along with you possibly having to clear some space there yourself if you packed it with things!).

18.) Bad news: ADBLOCK CAN BE DETECTED FOR: See here on that note -> []

HOSTS files are NOT THAT EASILY "webbug" BLOCKABLE by websites, as was tried on users by ARSTECHNICA (and it worked on AdBlock in that manner), to that websites' users' dismay:



An experiment gone wrong - By Ken Fisher | Last updated March 6, 2010 11:11 AM []

"Starting late Friday afternoon we conducted a 12 hour experiment to see if it would be possible to simply make content disappear for visitors who were using a very popular ad blocking tool. Technologically, it was a success in that it worked. Ad blockers, and only ad blockers, couldn't see our content."


"Our experiment is over, and we're glad we did it because it led to us learning that we needed to communicate our point of view every once in a while. Sure, some people told us we deserved to die in a fire. But that's the Internet!"

Thus, as you can see? Well - THAT all "went over like a lead balloon" with their users in other words, because Arstechnica was forced to change it back to the old way where ADBLOCK still could work to do its job (REDDIT however, has not, for example). However/Again - this is proof that HOSTS files can still do the job, blocking potentially malscripted ads (or ads in general because they slow you down) vs. adblockers like ADBLOCK!


19.) Even WIKILEAKS "favors" blacklists (because they work, and HOSTS can be a blacklist vs. known BAD sites/servers/domain-host names):



"we are in favour of 'Blacklists', be it for mail servers or websites, they have to be compiled with care... Fortunately, more responsible blacklists, like (which protects the Firefox browser)...


20.) AND, LASTLY? SINCE MALWARE GENERALLY HAS TO OPERATE ON WHAT YOU YOURSELF CAN DO (running as limited class/least privlege user, hopefully, OR even as ADMIN/ROOT/SUPERUSER)? HOSTS "LOCK IN" malware too, vs. communicating "back to mama" for orders (provided they have name servers + C&C botnet servers listed in them, blocked off in your HOSTS that is) - you might think they use a hardcoded IP, which IS possible, but generally they do not & RECYCLE domain/host names they own (such as has been seen with the RBN (Russian Business Network) lately though it was considered "dead", other malwares are using its domains/hostnames now, & this? This stops that cold, too - Bonus!)...

21.) Custom HOSTS files gain users back more "screen real estate" by blocking out banner ads... it's great on PC's for speed along with MORE of what I want to see/read (not ads), & efficiency too, but EVEN BETTER ON SMARTPHONES - by far. It matters MOST there imo @ least, in regards to extra screen real-estate.

Still - It's a GOOD idea to layer in the usage of BOTH browser addons for security like adblock ( [] ), IE 9's new TPL's ( [] ), &/or NoScript ( [] especially this one, as it covers what HOSTS files can't in javascript which is the main deliverer of MOST attacks online & SECUNIA.COM can verify this for anyone really by looking @ the past few years of attacks nowadays), for the concept of "layered security"....

It's just that HOSTS files offer you a LOT MORE gains than Adblock ( [] ) does alone (as hosts do things adblock just plain cannot & on more programs, for more speed, security, and "stealth" to a degree even), and it corrects problems in DNS (as shown above via hardcodes of your favorite sites into your HOSTS file, and more (such as avoiding DNS request logs)).

ALSO - Some more notes on DNS servers & their problems, very recent + ongoing ones:


DNS flaw reanimates slain evil sites as ghost domains: []


BIND vs. what the Chinese are doing to DNS lately? See here: []



(Yes, even "security pros" are helpless vs. DNS problems in code bugs OR redirect DNS poisoning issues, & they can only try to "set the DNS record straight" & then, they still have to wait for corrected DNS info. to propogate across all subordinate DNS servers too - lagtime in which folks DO get "abused" in mind you!)


DNS vs. the "Kaminsky DNS flaw", here (and even MORE problems in DNS than just that): []

(Seems others are saying that some NEW "Bind9 flaw" is worse than the Kaminsky flaw ALONE, up there, mind you... probably corrected (hopefully), but it shows yet again, DNS hassles (DNS redirect/DNS poisoning) being exploited!)


Moxie Marlinspike's found others (0 hack) as well...

Nope... "layered security" truly IS the "way to go" - hacker/cracker types know it, & they do NOT want the rest of us knowing it too!...

(So until DNSSEC takes "widespread adoption"? HOSTS are your answer vs. such types of attack, because the 1st thing your system refers to, by default, IS your HOSTS file (over say, DNS server usage). There are decent DNS servers though, such as OpenDNS, ScrubIT, or even NORTON DNS (more on each specifically below), & because I cannot "cache the entire internet" in a HOSTS file? I opt to use those, because I have to (& OpenDNS has been noted to "fix immediately", per the Kaminsky flaw, in fact... just as a sort of reference to how WELL they are maintained really!)


DNS Hijacks Now Being Used to Serve Black Hole Exploit Kit: []


DNS experts admit some of the underlying foundations of the DNS protocol are inherently weak: []


Potential 0-Day Vulnerability For BIND 9: []


Five DNS Threats You Should Protect Against: []


DNS provider decked by DDoS dastards: []


Ten Percent of DNS Servers Still Vulnerable: (so much for "conscientious patching", eh? Many DNS providers weren't patching when they had to!) []




TimeWarner DNS Hijacking: []


DNS Re-Binding Attacks: []


DNS Server Survey Reveals Mixed Security Picture: []


Halvar figured out super-secret DNS vulnerability: []


BIND Still Susceptible To DNS Cache Poisoning: []


DNS Poisoning Hits One of China's Biggest ISPs: []


DDoS Attacks Via DNS Recursion: []


High Severity BIND DNS Vulnerability Advisory Issued: []


Photobucketâ(TM)s DNS records hijacked: []


Protecting Browsers from DNS Rebinding Attacks: []


DNS Problem Linked To DDoS Attacks Gets Worse: []


HOWEVER - Some DNS servers are "really good stuff" vs. phishing, known bad sites/servers/hosts-domains that serve up malware-in-general & malicious scripting, botnet C&C servers, & more, such as:

Norton DNS -> []
  ScrubIT DNS -> []
  OpenDNS -> []

(Norton DNS in particular, is exclusively for blocking out malware, for those of you that are security-conscious. ScrubIT filters pr0n material too, but does the same, & OpenDNS does phishing protection. Each page lists how & why they work, & why they do so. Norton DNS can even show you its exceptions lists, plus user reviews & removal procedures requests, AND growth stats (every 1/2 hour or so) here -> [] so, that ought to "take care of the naysayers" on removal requests, &/or methods used plus updates frequency etc./et al...)

HOWEVER - There's ONLY 1 WEAKNESS TO ANY network defense, including HOSTS files (vs. host-domain name based threats) & firewalls (hardware router type OR software type, vs. IP address based threats): Human beings, & they not being 'disciplined' about the indiscriminate usage of javascript (the main "harbinger of doom" out there today online), OR, what they download for example... & there is NOTHING I can do about that! (Per Dr. Manhattan of "The Watchmen", ala -> "I can change almost anything, but I can't change human nature")

HOWEVER AGAIN - That's where NORTON DNS, OpenDNS, &/or ScrubIT DNS help!

(Especially for noob/grandma level users who are unaware of how to secure themselves in fact, per a guide like mine noted above that uses "layered-security" principles!)

ScrubIT DNS, &/or OpenDNS are others alongside Norton DNS (adding on phishing protection too) as well!

( & it's possible to use ALL THREE in your hardware NAT routers, and, in your Local Area Connection DNS properties in Windows, for again, "Layered Security" too)...




"Ever since I've installed a host file ( to redirect advertisers to my loopback, I haven't had any malware, spyware, or adware issues. I first started using the host file 5 years ago." - by TestedDoughnut (1324447) on Monday December 13, @12:18AM (#34532122)

"I use a custom /etc/hosts to block ads... my file gets parsed basically instantly ... So basically, for any modern computer, it has zero visible impact. And even if it took, say, a second to parse, that would be more than offset by the MANY seconds saved by not downloading and rendering ads. I have noticed NO ill effects from running a custom /etc/hosts file for the last several years. And as a matter of fact I DO run http servers on my computers and I've never had an /etc/hosts-related problem... it FUCKING WORKS and makes my life better overall." - by sootman (158191) on Monday July 13 2009, @11:47AM (#28677363) Homepage Journal

"I actually went and downloaded a 16k line hosts file and started using that after seeing that post, you know just for trying it out. some sites load up faster." - by gl4ss (559668) on Thursday November 17, @11:20AM (#38086752) Homepage Journal

"Better than an ad blocker, imo. Hosts file entries: [] " - by TempestRose (1187397) on Tuesday March 15, @12:53PM (#35493274)

"^^ One of the many reasons why I like the user-friendliness of the /etc/hosts file." - by lennier1 (264730) on Saturday March 05, @09:26PM (#35393448)

"They've been on my HOSTS block for years" - by ScottCooperDotNet (929575) on Thursday August 05 2010, @01:52AM (#33147212)

"I'm currently only using my hosts file to block pheedo ads from showing up in my RSS feeds and causing them to take forever to load. Regardless of its original intent, it's still a valid tool, when used judiciously." - by Bill Dog (726542) on Monday April 25, @02:16AM (#35927050) Homepage Journal

"you're right about hosts files" - by drinkypoo (153816) on Thursday May 26, @01:21PM (#36252958) Homepage

"APK's monolithic hosts file is looking pretty good at the moment." - by Culture20 (968837) on Thursday November 17, @10:08AM (#38085666)

"I also use the MVPS ad blocking hosts file." - by Rick17JJ (744063) on Wednesday January 19, @03:04PM (#34931482)

"I use ad-Block and a hostfile" - by Ol Olsoc (1175323) on Tuesday March 01, @10:11AM (#35346902)

"I do use Hosts, for a couple fake domains I use." - by icebraining (1313345) on Saturday December 11, @09:34AM (#34523012) Homepage

"It's a good write up on something everybody should use, why you were modded down is beyond me. Using a HOSTS file, ADblock is of no concern and they can do what they want." - by Trax3001BBS (2368736) on Monday December 12, @10:07PM (#38351398) Homepage Journal

"I want my surfing speed back so I block EVERY fucking ad. i.e. [] and [] FTW" - by UnknownSoldier (67820) on Tuesday December 13, @12:04PM (#38356782)

"Let me introduce you to the file: /etc/hosts" - by fahrbot-bot (874524) on Monday December 19, @05:03PM (#38427432)

"I use a hosts file" - by EdIII (1114411) on Tuesday December 13, @01:17PM (#38357816)

"I'm tempted to go for a hacked hosts file that simply resolves most advert sites to" - by bLanark (123342) on Tuesday December 13, @01:13PM (#38357760)

"this is not a troll, which hosts file source you recommend nowadays? it's a really handy method for speeding up web and it works." - by gl4ss (559668) on Thursday March 22, @08:07PM (#39446525) Homepage Journal

"A hosts file certainly does not require "a lot of work" to maintain, and it quite effectively kills a LOT of advertising and tracking schemes. . In fact, I never would have considered trying to use it for ddefending against viruses or malware." - by RocketRabbit (830691) on Thursday December 30 2010, @05:48PM (#34715060)


Then, there is also the words of respected security expert, Mr. Oliver Day, from SECURITYFOCUS.COM to "top that all off" as well:


Some "PERTINENT QUOTES/EXCERPTS" to back up my points with (for starters):


"The host file on my day-to-day laptop is now over 16,000 lines long. Accessing the Internet -- particularly browsing the Web -- is actually faster now."

Speed, and security, is the gain... others like Mr. Day note it as well!


"From what I have seen in my research, major efforts to share lists of unwanted hosts began gaining serious momentum earlier this decade. The most popular appear to have started as a means to block advertising and as a way to avoid being tracked by sites that use cookies to gather data on the user across Web properties. More recently, projects like Spybot Search and Destroy offer lists of known malicious servers to add a layer of defense against trojans and other forms of malware."

Per my points exactly, no less... & guess who was posting about HOSTS files a 14++ yrs. or more back & Mr. Day was reading & now using? Yours truly (& this is one of the later ones, from 2001 [] (but the example HOSTS file with my initials in it is FAR older, circa 1998 or so) or thereabouts, and referred to later by a pal of mine who moderates (where I posted on HOSTS for YEARS (1997 onwards)) -> [] !


"Shared host files could be beneficial for other groups as well. Human rights groups have sought after block resistant technologies for quite some time. The GoDaddy debacle with NMap creator Fyodor (corrected) showed a particularly vicious blocking mechanism using DNS registrars. Once a registrar pulls a website from its records, the world ceases to have an effective way to find it. Shared host files could provide a DNS-proof method of reaching sites, not to mention removing an additional vector of detection if anyone were trying to monitor the use of subversive sites. One of the known weaknesses of the Tor system, for example, is direct DNS requests by applications not configured to route such requests through Tor's network."

There you go: AND, it also works vs. the "KAMINSKY DNS FLAW" & DNS poisoning/redirect attacks, for redirectable weaknesses in DNS servers (non DNSSEC type, & set into recursive mode especially) and also in the TOR system as well (that lends itself to anonymous proxy usage weaknesses I noted above also) and, you'll get to sites you want to, even IF a DNS registrar drops said websites from its tables as shown here Beating Censorship By Routing Around DNS -> [] & even DNSBL also (DNS Block Lists) -> [] as well - DOUBLE-BONUS!


* POSTS ABOUT HOSTS FILES I DID on "/." THAT HAVE DONE WELL BY OTHERS & WERE RATED HIGHLY, 26++ THUSFAR (from +3 -> +1 RATINGS, usually "informative" or "interesting" etc./et al):

  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  APK 20++ POINTS ON HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 (w/ facebook known bad sites blocked) -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP CAN DO SAME AS THE "CloudFlare" Server-Side service:2011 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2011 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP & OPERA HAUTE SECURE:2011 -> [] in HOSTS:2009 -> [] IN HOSTS:2009 -> [] in HOSTS:2009 -> [] in HOSTS:2009 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> [] (still says INSIGHTFUL)
  HOSTS MOD UP vs. botnet: 2012 -> []


Windows 7, VISTA, & Server 2008 have a couple of "issues" I don't like in them, & you may not either, depending on your point of view (mine's based solely on efficiency & security), & if my take on these issues aren't "good enough"? I suggest reading what ROOTKIT.COM says, link URL is in my "p.s." @ the bottom of this post:

1.) HOSTS files being unable to use "0" for a blocking IP address - this started in 12/09/2008 after an "MS Patch Tuesday" in fact for VISTA (when it had NO problem using it before that, as Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 still can)... & yes, this continues in its descendants, Windows Server 2008 &/or Windows 7 as well.

So, why is this a "problem" you might ask?

Ok - since you can technically use either:

a.) (the "loopback adapter address")
b.) (next smallest & next most efficient)
c.) The smallest & fastest plain-jane 0


You can use ANY of those, in order to block out known bad sites &/or adbanners in a HOSTS file this way??

Microsoft has "promoted bloat" in doing so... no questions asked.

Simply because

1.) = 9 bytes in size on disk & is the largest/slowest
2.) = 7 bytes & is the next largest/slowest in size on disk
3.) 0 = 1 byte

(& HOSTS files extend across EVERY webbrowser, email program, or in general every webbound program you use & thus HOSTS are "global" in coverage this way AND function on any OS that uses the BSD derived IP stack (which most all do mind you, even MS is based off of it, as BSD's IS truly, "the best in the business"), & when coupled with say, IE restricted zones, FireFox addons like NoScript &/or AdBlock, or Opera filter.ini/urlfilter.ini, for layered security in this capacity for webbrowsers & SOME email programs (here, I mean ones "built into" browsers themselves like Opera has for example))

MS has literally promoted bloat in this file, making it load slower from disk, into memory! This compounds itself, the more entries your HOSTS file contains... & for instance? Mine currently contains nearly 654,000 entries of known bad adbanners, bad websites, &/or bad nameservers (used for controlling botnets, misdirecting net requests, etc. et al).

Now, IF I were to use My "huge" HOSTS file would be approximately 27mb in size... using (next smallest) it would be 19mb in size - HOWEVER? Using 0 as my blocking IP, it is only 14mb in size. See my point?

(For loads either in the local DNS cache, or system diskcache if you run w/out the local DNS client service running, this gets slower the larger each HOSTS file entry is (which you have to stall the DNS client service in Windows for larger ones, especially if you use a "giant HOSTS file" (purely relative term, but once it goes over (iirc) 4mb in size, you have to cut the local DNS cache client service)))

NO questions asked - the physics of it backed me up in theory alone, but when I was questioned on it for PROOF thereof?

I wrote a small test program to load such a list into a "pascal record" (which is analagous to a C/C++ structure), which is EXACTLY what the DNS client/DNS API does as well, using a C/C++ structure (basically an array of sorts really, & a structure/record is a precursor part to a full-blown CLASS or OBJECT, minus the functions built in, this is for treating numerous variables as a SINGLE VARIABLE (for efficiency, which FORTRAN as a single example, lacks as a feature, @ least Fortran 77 did, but other languages do not))!

I even wrote another that just loaded my HOSTS file's entirety into a listbox, same results... slowest using, next slowest using, & fastest using 0.

And, sure: Some MORE "goes on" during DNS API loads (iirc, removal of duplicated entries (which I made sure my personal copy does not have these via a program I wrote to purge it of duplicated entries + to sort each entry alphabetically for easier mgt. via say, notepad.exe) & a conversion from decimal values to hex ones), but, nevertheless? My point here "holds true", of slower value loads, record-by-record, from a HOSTS file, when the entries become larger.

So, to "prove my point" to my naysayers?

I timed it using the Win32 API calls "GetTickCount" & then again, using the API calls of "QueryPerformanceCounter" as well, seeing the SAME results (a slowdown when reading in this file from disk, especially when using the larger or line item entries in a HOSTS file, vs. the smaller/faster/more efficient 0).

In my test, I saw a decline in speed/efficiency in my test doing so by using larger blocking addresses ( &/or, vs. the smallest/fastest in 0)... proving me correct on this note!

On this HOSTS issue, and the WFP design issue in my next post below?

I also then questioned MS' own staff, even their VP of development (S. Sinofsky) on this here -> [] & other places in their blogs, to get them to tell me WHY this seemingly intentional inefficiency was implemented... & I have YET to get a solid LOGICAL answer on this as to why it was done - THUS, @ this point?

I am convinced they (MS) do NOT have a good reason for doing this... because of their lack of response there on this note. Unless it has something to do with IPv6 (most folks use IPv4 still), I cannot understand WHY this design mistake imo, has occurred, in HOSTS files...


2.) The "Windows Filtering Platform", which is now how the firewall works in VISTA, Server 2008, & Windows 7...

Sure it works in this new single point method & it is simple to manage & "sync" all points of it, making it easier for network techs/admins to manage than the older 3 part method, but that very thing works against it as well, because it is only a single part system now!

Thus, however?

This "single layer design" in WFP, now represents a SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE/ATTACK for malware makers to 'take down'!

(Which is 1 of the 1st things a malware attempts to do, is to take down any software firewalls present, or even the "Windows Security Center" itself which should warn you of the firewall "going down", & it's fairly easy to do either by messaging the services they use, or messing up their registry init. settings)

VS. the older (up to) 3 part method used in Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003, for protecting a system via IP Filtering, the Windows native Firewall, &/or IPSEC. Each of which uses diff. drivers, & layers of the IP stack to function from, as well as registry initialization settings.

Think of the older 3 part design much the same as the reason why folks use door handle locks, deadbolt locks, & chain locks on their doors... multipart layered security.

(Each of which the latter older method used, had 3 separate drivers & registry settings to do their jobs, representing a "phalanx like"/"zone defense like" system of backup of one another (like you see in sports OR ancient wars, and trust me, it WORKS, because on either side of yourself, you have "backup", even if YOU "go down" vs. the opponent)).

I.E.-> Take 1 of the "older method's" 3 part defenses down? 2 others STILL stand in the way, & they are not that simple to take them ALL down...

(Well, @ least NOT as easily as "taking out" a single part defensive system like WFP (the new "Windows Filtering Platform", which powers the VISTA, Windows Server 2008, & yes, Windows 7 firewall defense system)).

On this "single-part/single-point of attack" WFP (vs. Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003's IP stack defense design in 3-part/zone defense/phalanx type arrangement) as well as the HOSTS issue in my post above?

I also then questioned MS' own staff, even their VP of development (S. Sinofsky) on this here -> [] & other places in their blogs, to get them to tell me WHY this seemingly intentional inefficiency was implemented... & I have YET to get a solid LOGICAL answer on this as to why it was done - THUS, @ this point?

I'll stick to my thoughts on it, until I am shown otherwise & proven wrong.


Following up on what I wrote up above, so those here reading have actual technical references from Microsoft themselves ("The horses' mouth"), in regards to the Firewall/PortFilter/IPSec designs (not HOSTS files, that I am SURE I am correct about, no questions asked) from my "Point #2" above?

Thus, I'll now note how:


1.) TCP/IP packet processing paths differences between in how Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 did it (IPSEC.SYS (IP Security Policies), IPNAT.SYS (Windows Firewall), IPFLTDRV.SYS (Port Filtering), & TCPIP.SYS (base IP driver))...

2.) AND, how VISTA/Server 2008/Windows 7 do it now currently, using a SINGLE layer (WFP)...


First off, here is HOW it worked in Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 - using 3 discrete & different drivers AND LEVELS/LAYERS of the packet processing path they worked in: []

The Cable Guy - June 2005: TCP/IP Packet Processing Paths


The following components process IP packets:

IP forwarding Determines the next-hop interface and address for packets being sent or forwarded.

TCP/IP filtering Allows you to specify by IP protocol, TCP port, or UDP port, the types of traffic that are acceptable for incoming local host traffic (packets destined for the host). You can configure TCP/IP filtering on the Options tab from the advanced properties of the Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) component in the Network Connections folder.

* "Here endeth the lesson..." and, if you REALLY want to secure your system? Please refer to this: []

APK [mailto]

P.S.=> SOME MINOR "CAVEATS/CATCH-22's" - things to be aware of for "layered security" + HOSTS file performance - easily overcome, or not a problem at all:

A.) HOSTS files don't function under PROXY SERVERS (except for Proximitron, which has a filter that allows it) - Which is *the "WHY"* of why I state in my "P.S." section below to use both AdBlock type browser addon methods (or even built-in block lists browsers have such as Opera's URLFILTER.INI file, & FireFox has such as list as does IE also in the form of TPL (tracking protection lists -> [] , good stuff )) in combination with HOSTS, for the best in "layered security" (alongside .pac files + custom cascading style sheets that can filter off various tags such as scripts or ads etc.) - but proxies, especially "HIGHLY ANONYMOUS" types, generally slow you down to a CRAWL online (& personally, I cannot see using proxies "for the good" typically - as they allow "truly anonymous posting" & have bugs (such as TOR has been shown to have & be "bypassable/traceable" via its "onion routing" methods)).

B.) HOSTS files do NOT protect you vs. javascript (this only holds true IF you don't already have a bad site blocked out in your HOSTS file though, & the list of sites where you can obtain such lists to add to your HOSTS are above (& updated daily in many of them)).

C.) HOSTS files (relatively "largish ones") require you to turn off Windows' native "DNS local client cache service" (which has a problem in that it's designed with a non-redimensionable/resizeable list, array, or queue (DNS data loads into a C/C++ structure actually/afaik, which IS a form of array)) - covers that in detail and how to easily do this in Windows (this is NOT a problem in Linux, & it's 1 thing I will give Linux over Windows, hands-down). Relatively "smallish" HOSTS files don't have this problem ( offers 2 types for this).

D.) HOSTS files, once read/loaded, once? GET CACHED! Right into the kernelmode diskcaching subsystem (fast & efficient RAM speed), for speed of access/re-access (@ system startup in older MS OS' like 2000, or, upon a users' 1st request that's "Webbound" via say, a webbrowser) gets read into either the DNS local caching client service (noted above), OR, if that's turned off? Into your local diskcache (like ANY fil

That's not I folks: It's Jeremiah Cornelius... apk (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43318321)

THIS is why he's doing it & proof of it, here -> [] when others pointed out Jeremiah Cornelius forgot to submit one of the "first post spams" masquerading as myself as AC, & mistakenly submitted one of the impersonations of myself as his registered 'luser' name here on /. forums.

Pretty pitiful actually, but like every up to no good idiot does? He screwed up & submitted it under his registered 'luser' name here.

* Jeremiah Cornelius: DO YOURSELF, and the rest of us, A GIANT FAVOR MAN: Seek professional psychiatric help!

(Since Jeremiah Cornelius obviously can't get over the fact he made a spelling error on what it is HE ALLEGEDLY DID FOR A LIVING? That's not MY fault... it's HIS!)


P.S.=> I seriously must have dusted JC (in his mind @ least) for his BAD spelling error & it "got his goat"...

I.E.-> Catching what he claimed to do as a job, for YEARS he left "PENETRATION" (correct) spelled as "PENTRATION" (incorrect) on his resume on LinkedIn & I pointed it out as he & his friends trolled me as usual (webmistressrachel, gmhowell, & crew (probably ALL JC no doubt using alterate emails or TOR to do it as a possible - I've caught "them & theirs" doing it before, ala Barbara, not Barbie = TomHudson (same person))).

So THAT is what has gotten his goat in a technical debate & his "geek angst" could only come up with *trying* to "impersonate me" in every news thread on /. for the month of March 2013 so far!

(Just to attempt to 'discredit me' as a spammer here obviously)

Doing so, by posting that "$10,000 challenge" &/or reposts of my old posts on hosts file value to end users into EVERY SINGLE NEWS ARTICLE POSTED on /. ...

It's all I can think of that *might* cause such a mentally troubled 'reaction' like the Jeremiah Cornelius is doing & there's NO QUESTION he's the one doing this spamming of nearly every posted article masquerading as myself...!

... apk

Re:Slashdot moderation infiltrated by impostor... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43318587)

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

* POOR SHOWING TROLLS, & most especially IF that's the "best you've got" - apparently, it is... lol!

Hello, and THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING !! We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.

Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?

Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.

If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.

I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.

Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.

Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.

I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.

If Natalie Portman is not measurable, hot grits are Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!

You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his banning he begins to send a variety of abusive emails to the operator of OSY, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke threatening to sue him for libel, claiming that the APK on OSY was fake.

My reputation as a professional in this field clearly shows in multiple publications in this field in written print, & also online in various GOOD capacities since 1996 to present day. This has happened since I was first published in Playgirl Magazine in 1996 & others to present day, with helpful tools online in programs, & professionally sold warez that were finalists @ Westminster Dog Show 2000-2002.


apk on 4chan []




That was amazing. - []


My, God! It's beatiful. Keep it up, you glorious bastard. - []


Let us bask in its glory. A true modern The Wasteland. - []


put your baby IN ME -- I just read this whole thing. Fuck mod points, WHERE DO I SEND YOU MY MONEY?!!! - []


Oh shit, Time Cube Guy's into computers now... - []


[apk]'s done more to discredit the use of HOSTS files than anyone [else] ever could. - []


this obnoxious fucknuts [apk] has been trolling the internet and spamming his shit delphi sub-fart app utilities for 15 years. - []


this is hilarious. - []


I agree I am intrigued by these host files how do I sign up for your newsletter? - []


Gimme the program that generates this epic message. I'll buy 5 of your product if you do... - []


a pretty well-executed mashup of APK's style - []


a very clever parody of APK - []


Please keep us updated on your AI research, you seem quite good at it. - []


Obviously, it must be Alexander Peter Kowalski. He's miffed at all these imposters... - []


Damn, apk, who the fuck did you piss off this time? Hahahahaahahahahahahaahaha. Pass the popcorn as the troll apk gets pwned relentlessly. - []


I think it's the Internet, about to become sentient. - []


KUDOS valiant AC. - []


Polyploid lovechild of APK, MyCleanPC, and Time Cube --> fail counter integer overflow --> maximum win! - []


You made my day, thanks! - []


Wow. The perfect mix of trolls. Timecube, mycleanpc, gnaa, apk... this is great! - []


truer words were never spoken as /. trolls are struck speechless by it, lol! - []


It's APK himself trying to maintain the illusion that he's still relevant. - []


Mod this up. The back and forth multi posting between APK and this "anti-APK" certainly does look like APK talking to himself. - []


APK himself would be at the top of a sensible person's ban list. He's been spamming and trolling Slashdot for years. - []


Not sure if actually crazy, or just pretending to be crazy. Awesome troll either way. - []


Awesome! Hat off to you, sir! - []


That isn't a parody of Time-cube, it is an effort to counter-troll a prolific poster named APK, who seems like a troll himself, although is way too easy to troll into wasting massive amounts of time on BS not far from the exaggerations above - []


that is Art . Kudos to you, valiant troll on your glorious FP - []


What? - []


It is in fact an extremely well thought out and brilliantly executed APK parody, combined with a Time Cube parody, and with a sprinkling of the MyCleanPC spam. - []


[to apk] er... many people have disproved your points about hosts files with well reasoned, factual arguments. You just chose not to listen and made it into some kind of bizarre crusade. And I'm not the timecube guy, just someone else who finds you intensely obnoxious and likes winding you up to waste your time. - []


it's apk, theres no reason to care. - []


Seems more like an apk parody. - []


That's great but what about the risk of subluxations? - []


Read carefully. This is a satirical post, that combines the last several years of forum trolling, rolled into one FUNNY rant! - []


I can has summary? - []


Trolls trolling trolls... it's like Inception or something. - []


We all know it's you, apk. Stop pretending to antagonize yourself. - []


Now you've made me all nostalgic for USENET. - []


Google APK Hosts File Manager. He's written a fucking application to manage your hosts file. - []


In case you are not aware, the post is a satire of a fellow known as APK. The grammar used is modeled after APK's as you can see here [] . Or, you can just look around a bit and see some of his posts on here about the wonders of host files. - []


You are surely of God of Trolls, whomever you are. I have had stupid arguments with and bitten the troll apk many times. - []


"What kind of meds cure schizophrenic drunk rambling?" -> "Whatever APK isn't taking" - [] []


I'm confused, is apk trolling himself now? - []


Excellent mashup. A++. Would troll again. - []


Best. Troll. Ever. - []


I like monkeys. - []


This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. - []


I admire this guy's persistence. - []


It's a big remix of several different crackpots from Slashdot and elsewhere, plus a liberal sprinkling of famous Slashdot trolls and old memes. - []


APK is a prominent supporter of Monsanto. - []


Here's a hint, check out stories like this one [] , where over 200 of the 247 posts are rated zero or -1 because they are either from two stupid trolls arguing endless, or quite likely one troll arguing with himself for attention. The amount of off-topic posts almost outnumber on topic ones by 4 to 1. Posts like the above are popular for trolling APK, since if you say his name three times, he appears, and will almost endlessly feed trolls. - []


I love this copypasta so much. It never fails to make me smile. - []


^ Champion Mod parent up. - []


I appreciate the time cube reference, and how you tied it into the story. Well done. - []


The day you are silenced is the day freedom dies on Slashdot. God bless. - []


AHahahahah thanks for that, cut-n-pasted.... Ownage! - []


If you're familiar with APK, the post itself is a pretty damn funny parody. - []


">implying it's not apk posting it" --> "I'd seriously doubt he's capable of that level of self-deprecation..." - [] []


No, the other posts are linked in a parody of APK [mailto] 's tendency to quote himself, numbnuts. - []


Just ban any post with "apk", "host file", or "hosts file", as that would take care of the original apk too. The original has been shitposting Slashdot much longer & more intensively than the parody guy. Or ban all Tor exit nodes, as they both use Tor to circumvent IP bans. - []


Sadly this is closer to on-topic than an actual APK post is. - []




I've butted heads with APK myself, and yeah, the guy's got issues - []


Can I be in your quote list? - []


Clearly you are not an Intertubes engineer, otherwise the parent post would be more meaningful to you. Why don't YOU take your meds? - []


+2 for style! The bolding, italicizing, and font changes are all spot-on - []


Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - []


APK is not really a schizophrenic fired former Windows administrator with multiple personality disorder and TimeCube/Art Bell refugee. He's a fictional character like and put forward by the same person as Goatse Guy, GNAA trolls, Dr. Bob and so forth. His purpose is to test the /. CAPTCA algorithm, which is a useful purpose. If you're perturbed by having to scroll past his screeds just set your minimum point level to 1, as his posts are pretty automatically downmodded right away. - []


I just saw APK a couple days ago. He surfaced, blew once, and submerged... - []


oh man, that incredible interminable list of responses is almost as funny as the original post. This is getting to be truly epic. - []


"Does anyone know of an Adblock rule for this?" -> "No, but I bet there's a hosts file entry for it..." - [] []


"Can a hosts file block apk's posts, though?" -> "The universe couldn't handle that much irony." - [] []


"That's it, I've had enough. ... Bye everyone, most of the last decade or so has been fun, but frankly, I quit." - []
--> "So basically what you're saying is that you've added yourself to the HOST file?" - []


Sweet baby Moses, this is beautiful work - I wish we could get trolls as good as this on TF. :) - []


you have a point - []


I do admire that level of dedication. - []


[to apk] shut up you stupid cock. Everyone knows you're wrong. - []


I will hand it to him, he is definitely consistent. I wish I knew how he did this. That thing is scary huge. - []


I admire the amount of dedication you've shown - []


Word is, ESR buttfucks CmdrTaco with his revolver. - []


Hey APK, Protip: It's not the truth or value (or lack of) in your post that gets it modded into oblivion, it's the fucking insane length. In addition to TL;DR (which goes without saying for a post of such length), how about irritating readers by requiring them to scroll through 20+ screenfuls just to get to the next post. If you want to publish a short story like this, please do everyone a favor and blog it somewhere, then provide a brief summary and link to your blog. Readers intrigued by your summary will go read your blog, and everyone else will just move along at normal /. speed. - []


I like how this post seems to just sum up every Slashdot comment ever without actually saying anything. - []


extremely bright - []


You provide many references, which is good. - []


Obviously very passionate - []


Thanks ... You should probably stay - []


Art? -- []


PROOF apk sucks donkey dick. - []


I've been around /. for a while now, but this post is by far the most unique I've seen. Many have tried, but few achieve the greatness of this AC. My hat's off to you. - []


I think it's hilarious. Get over it! - []


Obviously APK filled his hosts files with backdoors before distributing them to ensure he doesn't block himself. - []


Alexander Peter Kowalski is an obnoxious prick. - []


Don't mention that file. Ever. It'll draw APK like a fly to rotting meat. Last thing I want to read is 80 responses worth of his stupid spam about that file! I swear that cocksucker does nothing but search Slashdot for that term and then spams the entire article. - []


[to apk] You have had it repeatedly explained to you that your posts are long-winded, unpleasant to read due to your absurd formatting style and full of technical inaccuracies borne of your single minded i-have-a-hammer-so-every-problem-is-a-nail attitude. - []


You are my favorite Slashdot poster. - []


Most insightful post on the Internet - []


I read the whole thing *again* just to see if my comment was in there - []


[to apk] So, did your mom do a lot of drugs when she was pregnant? - []


people are looking at me funny because I'm laughing hysterically at what a perfect APK imitation it is. - []


Slashdot devs seem in no hurry to fix this problem and it's been driving me nuts. So for anybody who values viewing at -1 and uses greasemonkey here's a Script [] . There's a chance of false positives and it's not the most optimized. But I value not having to scroll through > 10 paragraphs of APK, custom hosts files, or 'acceptable ads' spam. - []
--> slashdot devs are too busy installing itunes for their hipster nerd buddys to sort this problem out. - []


I can't get enough of all of this good stuff! Thanks for the informative links! - []


When threatened, APK typically produces a post with links showing he's essentially posted this hundreds of times to slashdot stories... - []


[to apk] Your post got downmodded because you're a nutjob gone off his meds. - []


[to apk] The reason people impersonate you is because everyone thinks you're a moron. The hosts file is not intended to be used as you suggest. - []
-->What? You don't have a 14MB hosts file with ~1million entries in it? Next you'll probably tell me that your computer doesn't start thrashing and take 5 minutes for a DNS lookup! - []


[about apk] - this fwit is as thick as a post. worse, this shithead has mod points. and using them. - []


In before the fight between those two guys and their walls of text... - []




KPA ...thgim dik a ekil .s.b laivirt hcus no emit hcum taht etsaw t'ndluow I sa ,ti gniod em TON si ti - syug ON - []


[to apk] You seriously need to go see a shrink. You are a fucking fruitcake! - []


[to apk] Did you ever consider that it's not just one corrupt moderator, it's a bunch of regular slashdot users who infrequently get mod points who think you are totally full of shit? Stop posting annoying off topic irrelevant bullshit, and people won't mod you down. I'm seriously sick of reading your posts about someone impersonating you. - []


[to apk] you should be forced to use a cholla cactus as a butt-plug - []


[to apk] No one is on your side, that is why you're here. posting. still. No one cares. - []


Who's the more moronic? The original moron, or the one who replies to him knowing full well his comment will certainly be ignored, if not entirely unread, thus bringing the insane troll post to the attention of those who would otherwise not have seen it at all (seeing as it started at 0 and would have rapidly been modded down to -1) and whose post (and, somewhat ironically I grant you, this one as well) now requires 3 more mod points to be spent to hide it? - []


[to apk] I miss trollaxor. His gay porn world of slashdot executives and open-source luminaries was infinitely more entertaining than this drivel. - []


PLEASE stop modding biters up. Anyone who responds to an abvious troll, especually one of these APK trolls, should autometically get the same -1 troll as the damned troll. Any response to a troll only makes the troll do more trolling. Come on, guys, use your brains -- it isn't that hard. Stop feeding the damned trolls! - (missing link)


[to apk] Lick the inside of goatse's anus, it's delicious! - []


Excellent post A++++++++++++ would scroll past again!!!! - []


[to apk] You are the one who is pitiful. If you didn't spam /. with your bullshit you wouldn't have spammer 'impostors' doing the same. Just fuck off and die already, ok? Please, really. Step in front of a bus. Drink some bleach. Whatever it takes, just FUCK OFF and DIE. - []


[to apk] From one AC to another please for the love of god, PRINT YOUR HOST FILE OUT AND CRAM IT DOWN YOUR JAPS EYE!!! For fucks sake we don't care we see this and it takes the piss, short of a full frontal lobotomy what will it take to stop you posting this you moronic fuckwit? - []


[to apk] And someone forgot to take his meds today...Are you really that dense that you cant tell that the only reason the "impostor" exists because you have a hard time realizing that you are wrong and/or wont let it go. It would take a complete moron to not realize that the whole reason he continues to do it is because he knows he can get you to respond by simply posting. This isnt rocket science, this is internet 101... Let me offer you some advice on how to get rid of this "impostor"...shutup - []


[to apk] If you had a 'luser' account it wouldn't be a problem. But you don't want one of those, because your long rambling and bizarrely formatted posts mean your karma gets nuked in next to no time. So I guess you just have to work out which is 'worth it'. Posting AC because I don't want to become your latest fixation. - []


I wouldn't be surprised if that is APK trying to draw attention to himself, since he thinks such endless tirades are examples of him winning and make him look good. When people stop paying attention to him, or post actual counterpoints he can't come up with a response to, he'll post strawman troll postings to shoot down, sometimes just copy pasted from previous stories. - []


[to apk] No one wants to read your copy pasted crap. Maybe someone is mocking you because you make it so easy to? So drop it, and participate like an adult please. - []


Seriously.... What. The. Fuck. Can you two homos just go make out on brokeback mountain already, and stop talking about how one of you misspelled "penetration", and how the other cockblocks with their hosts files while grabing the other's goat? Goodness, it sure feels like being in a mountain range, trying to peer around those fucking orbital tether lengthed posts of pure premium bullsit the two of you somehoq manage to keep pushing out on demand. Shit stinks! At this point, i'd be willing to risk the fucking extinction of all life on earth by redirecting siding spring C/2013 1A to miss Mars and land on both of your fucking heads instead. The deaths of billions would be a small price to pay to shut you two cackling lovebirds up! - []


Listen up jackass, why the hell would somebody want to impersonate you? You're a certified internet kook. Nobody gives a hot about your 3 gig hosts file. And nobody is impersonating you. You're already a fucking parody. - []




Did you see the movie "Pokemon"? Actually the induced night "dream world" is synonymous with the academic religious induced "HOSTS file" enslavement of DNS. Domains have no inherent value, as it was invented as a counterfeit and fictitious value to represent natural values in name resolution. Unfortunately, human values have declined to fictitious word values. Unknowingly, you are living in a "World Wide Web", as in a fictitious life in a counterfeit Internet - which you could consider APK induced "HOSTS file". Can you distinguish the academic induced root server from the natural OpenDNS? Beware of the change when your brain is free from HOSTS file enslavement - for you could find that the natural Slashdot has been destroyed!!

FROM -> Man - how many times have I dusted you in tech debates that you have decided to troll me by ac posts for MONTHS now, OR IMPERSONATING ME AS YOU DID HERE and you were caught in it by myself & others here, only to fail each time as you have here?)...

So long nummynuts, sorry to have to kick your nuts up into your head verbally speaking.

cower in my shadow some more, feeb. you're completely pathetic.


* :)

Ac trolls' "BIG FAIL" (quoted): Eat your words!

P.S.=> That's what makes me LAUGH harder than ANYTHING ELSE on this forums (full of "FUD" spreading trolls) - When you hit trolls with facts & truths they CANNOT disprove validly on computing tech based grounds, this is the result - Applying unjustifiable downmods to effetely & vainly *try* to "hide" my posts & facts/truths they extoll!

Hahaha... lol , man: Happens nearly every single time I post such lists (proving how ineffectual these trolls are), only showing how solid my posts of that nature are...

That's the kind of martial arts [] I practice.


Disproof of all apk's statements:


RECENT POST LINKS: [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
REPORT MISSING LINKS FOR REWARD (check pastebin archive first)


TIP JAR: 1EtLgU5L3jhmVkDmqrWT9VhoZ1F2jSimHS []
RECEIVED: 0.0195 BTC - thx! ;-)

Re:Slashdot moderation infiltrated by impostor... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43320269)

Nobody cares. Get the fuck off Slashdot you stupid fucking nigger.

Re:Slashdot moderation infiltrated by impostor... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43334687)

You've already outed yourself Jeremiah Cornelius [] by forgetting to hit the 'Post Anonymously' button, so just fuck off!

What is the problem here? (5, Insightful)

muhula (621678) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317629)

Would it be news if Microsoft paid vendors $450 less per month than company B? Now, wouldn't it be even less news if vendors took this into account and adjusted their fees upwards by $450? This is just an accounting trick that probably has no real world impact on the vendors.

Good (1)

onyxruby (118189) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317641)

Business needs to see that needless filling of cubes just because is a waste of money of their own as well as their employees. Telecommuting is the responsible way of the future for environmental and quality of life reasons for the community at large.

Yahoo's failure was one of management, not of telecommuting itself.

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43317675)

Having people work in their cubicle at home isn't necessarily good for the community. Telecommuting certainly has its place but it is hardly a solution to any single problem.

Re:Good (5, Insightful)

onyxruby (118189) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317755)

When people aren't having to drive to work they aren't putting load on infrastructure (roads, buses etc) at the same time as everyone else. That means they create less pollution than someone that has to drive to work. A person that doesn't contribute to traffic and likewise doesn't make that contribution to pollution is better for the community than the person that does. The greenest commute is the one you don't have to make.

I previously worked for a fortune 25 company that had one third of it's work force telecommute from home. They estimated that the cost of providing office space to tens of thousands of employees were well over a billion dollars a year. They also were able to claim credit for green savings for the environment in different manners (the greenest office building is the one you don't have to build).

They also had the benefit of being able to use the flexibility of telecommuting as a competitive advantage when hiring and retaining employees. They were also better able to monitor the employees that telecommuted than the ones in the office and so they were more productive. Yahoo's problem was strictly one of management failure, not one of telecommuting failure.

Re:Good (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43318189)

If you also stop using apostrophes when you don't need to, you can reduce the amount of electricity needed for your post and transmitting it.

Re:Good (1)

loufoque (1400831) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317729)

Working in the office is much better to exchange with your co-workers.
It also makes it much easier to separate working time and family time.

I've telecommuted, and I can tell I am much more productive in the office.

Re:Good (1)

xous (1009057) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317861)

I don't know how your office was setup but ours is a complete zoo.

It's 100% open concept with about 4-5ft high dividers. The noise is insane. It's horribly distracting.

The only way I get any work done is jacking into my cellphone for music to block all the annoying chatter out. If this was the only problem you might be able to say it was just bad design.

Another problem is interrupts. People constantly ask me stupid questions when they can see me instead of following the process and opening a ticket. If I put my headphones in and ignore them (yes, I see you there, I don't care about your stupid question so I'm pretending I don't) they will wave a hand in front of my eyes or touch me. And yes give them shit if they interrupt me for something stupid.

I'm allowed to work 1-2 days a week from home and those are the ONLY days I get a reasonable amount of work done.

Re:Good (1)

zyzko (6739) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317997)

It really depends.

I share an office with our after sales people - so there is *a lot* of telephone calls going on all the time, and curses on failures and cheers on success. But there are also the fellow techs there, if the on-duty support person has a question he doesn't know the answer immediately to he can just whip up a quick "is there anyone willing to take a challenge on x?". Sure, IM and company-wide IRC channels etc. can supplement that (we have both) but it is not the same thing.

The killer is here:

The people in our office are smart. The sales guys actually approach the techs with care, if they see that they are "in the flow" they leave and come back with their question later. Same with the opposite, if I receive a question from my customer which is better answered by their key account manager I do not burst immediately on to him, he might be drafting up a very complex proposal and I don't want to interrupt. But as I see he is free, it is a two second job to say hi, there is this thing, details are in your email and it would be nice to reply today. The same thing on IM - if it comes at inconvenient time it is ignored completely. Email - might be better, but still priority is not so well given. What I am trying to say office environment has definitely it's sides (and I work from home 1-2 days a week too). And if your problem is that people "are asking stupid questions" - well, maybe you should get off your high horse or seek employment in an environment where there are no stupid questions.

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43318049)

wow -- there is little more annoying in the world than someone who tells you in person that they sent you an IM and an email.

Re:Good (1)

zyzko (6739) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318275)

And you completely missed the point.

The point is that in in-person communication you can see if the person is busy, and interact in a human way - like, you see he has nothing in calendar but is working hard with headphones on - so come back later and leave silently. I would rather receive a question about how busy I am and when I can answer and a remark "the details are in email" than an angry email with font size +14 and color=red. The first approach avoids flamewars, the latter, well, it is up to the persons communicating to work out what kind of message it is.

Re:Good (1)

1s44c (552956) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320263)

The point is that in in-person communication you can see if the person is busy, and interact in a human way

That would be really nice, it's a shame the management morons where I work consider WIFI on their laptops to be more important that anything else anyone might be doing. There are strong advantages to working from home or working irregular hours where I work, the main one being you actually get some work done.

Re:Good (1)

1s44c (552956) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320201)

I don't have the dividers but I know how you feel. Those stupid hand waving morons with their stupid questions that they could figure out themselves if they would just engage their brains annoy me too. Especially the needy management types who cry for help for every simple thing.

Re:Good (1)

beltsbear (2489652) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318537)

I think for some that may be true. For me a mix works best. 2-3 days a week in the office, take in person meetings, see problems first hand that need that treatment. Then the rest of the time working at home, on my BETTER equipment (such as multiple 24" screens vs 19" screens) and getting quiet time. I save 2 hours a day commuting of which usually half gets turn into more office work and half gets turned into more free time for me.

Re:Good (1)

1s44c (552956) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320137)

Working in the office is much better to exchange with your co-workers.
It also makes it much easier to separate working time and family time.

I've telecommuted, and I can tell I am much more productive in the office.

It just depends on what you are trying to get done. If you need uninterrupted quiet time to finish some project it's far easier at home. If you need to interact with your co-workers it's far easier at work. Personally if I have to do anything that takes a few hours of actual work I find myself wishing I was at home just to avoid all the people who insist on small talk.

Re:Good (1)

Tamerlin (940577) | about a year and a half ago | (#43325465)

Working in the office is much better to exchange with your co-workers.
It also makes it much easier to separate working time and family time.

Exchanging information with idiots isn't productive. Most staff in corporate IT are idiots, ergo exchanging information with them isn't worth the bother. Most of them use the remote work option to work perpetually anyway, which is proof that they're not actually any good.

The last place I worked at where a lot of folks worked remotely was a culture of work; these people wrote spaghetti code and worked constantly.

I've telecommuted, and I can tell I am much more productive in the office.

On my last telecommuting gig I had the option of working in an office without windows or at home with windows and cat in my lap. The laptop I got stuck with was crap, so it was inefficient to work with no matter where I did it. Hence I was more productive at home, not commuting.

And? (5, Insightful)

kenh (9056) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317647)

I've worked in companies where every project was required to pay internal IT dept bills for services rendered, so what?

This is an accounting mechanism that forces projects to account for all costs Bourne by the corporation in support of the project. I suspect internal projects are also billed at an equal amount, but the bills remain internal.

It helps facilities lose the stigma of being a cost to the organization and instead it is funded by the internal groups that consume their resources.

At $450/540 a month, that's a pretty good rate for a piece of real estate, a desk, unmetered power and Internet access... Can I feta desk in MS office space for the same price? I currently rent a small 240 sq ft office for my work and it runs $525 for the space, plus utilities & ISP costs - $540/month all-in in an MS facility sounds good to me.

Re:And? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43317687)

I've worked in companies where every project was required to pay internal IT dept bills for services rendered, so what?

MSFT requires this as well. MSIT (Microsoft IT) bills other departments for support provided

Re:And? (1)

1s44c (552956) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320287)

I've worked in companies where every project was required to pay internal IT dept bills for services rendered, so what?

MSFT requires this as well. MSIT (Microsoft IT) bills other departments for support provided

Much though I love bashing MS I have to agree. Charging both internal and external people for office space is normal practice in every big company I've ever worked for. Providing a desk isn't cheap, I doubt MS are making a profit on this.

Re:And? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43317707)

and the company employing the person - is charging Microsoft $600/month extra.

Re:And? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43318007)

Wow, if that included an Office license of every workstation, we would actually save money by moving in with Microsoft. Those damn licenses costs us an arm and a leg. Every month, until you are out of limbs.

Re:And? (2)

1s44c (552956) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320297)

LibreOffice licenses are free. It's an option for some organizations at least.

Re:And? (2)

WrecklessSandwich (1000139) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319121)

It sounds like a good deal until you start having to dodge flying chairs...

Re:And? (1)

ne0n (884282) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319671)

This is an accounting mechanism that forces projects to account for all costs Bourne by the corporation in support of the project. I suspect internal projects are also billed at an equal amount, but the bills remain internal.

If i'm following your Treadstone here, basically this high overhead accounting system is a gov't thing to do.

Re:And? (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | about a year and a half ago | (#43322675)

I've worked in companies where every project was required to pay internal IT dept bills for services rendered, so what?

This is an accounting mechanism that forces projects to account for all costs Bourne by the corporation in support of the project. I suspect internal projects are also billed at an equal amount, but the bills remain internal.

It helps facilities lose the stigma of being a cost to the organization and instead it is funded by the internal groups that consume their resources.

One company I did work for had a quarterly "disk space forecast" they asked people to use. Basically some of the things people did could run into the hundreds of gigabytes (I think) so they wanted to know and be prepared for large allocations of disk space on the servers (as well as the backups).

Forecast is free - though I presume it's limited so you can't say you'll need 1TB every quarter and not use it. But the projects aren't charged for the disk space - they're in the unallocated queue until claimed. When a project claims them, they're charged for that storage. If someone who didn't fill out a forecast runs out of space, they could ask and see if there are people not using theirs and claim them (though it's low priority allocation at this point - and if you really need it and they're all out, you have to pay for emergency procurement).

Unusual? (5, Insightful)

prisoner-of-enigma (535770) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317671)

OK, so you have a worker occupying workspace, using power, air conditioning, network/wifi, phones, insurance liability...all the trappings of a typical office worker in any typical company anywhere. Except they're not working for Microsoft. So, to recoup these costs, Microsoft charges them rent. And this is a problem...why?

The only thing unusual here is that /. thought this was story-worthy. And $25M is a pittance compared to the company's bottom line so it's not like they're making out like bandits here.

Re:Unusual? (1, Insightful)

recoiledsnake (879048) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317783)

The only thing unusual here is that /. thought this was story-worthy

Unusual? Slashdot will post any garbage if it's anti-Microsoft. [] [] []

No wonder the site is basically dying leaving only zealots as people with half a clue leave the site.

Re:Unusual? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43317911)

Still in top 2000 and doesn't seem like plunging down to me [] .

leaving only zealots as people with half a clue leave the site.

Well, yeah, you're still here, for one.

Re:Unusual? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43318409)

You are missing the point... They are working for Microsoft. These are contractors working for Microsoft on Microsoft projects.

The proper analogy here is you call a contractor to renovate your kitchen, then charge him $50 a day for the workspace in your house.

Re:Unusual? (1)

recoiledsnake (879048) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318449)

You're missing the point. This fee is not assessed for contractors working for Microsoft on Microsoft projects but who are working on the contractors premises. If Microsoft were to remove this fee, it won't be fair to contractors who have people working in their own offices.

Re:Unusual? (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318517)

You are missing the point... They are working for Microsoft. These are contractors working for Microsoft on Microsoft projects.

The proper analogy here is you call a contractor to renovate your kitchen, then charge him $50 a day for the workspace in your house.

Damn. I like that idea.....

Re:Unusual? (2)

MHolmesIV (253236) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318893)

Exactly, MS increases it's "rental" charge, the vendor increases their hourly rate to recoup the cost, and essentially, the entire $25 million MS "made", they already paid to the vendor in the first place. It's like if I give my kid a $100 allowance and then "charged" $10 for his rent. I might as well have just given him $90 to start with.

Ooh, unless I want him to move out, I suppose.

Re:Unusual? (1)

rahvin112 (446269) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320255)

You're missing the tax dodge. MS sells the building to a foreign subsidiary, all revenue is recognized off shore and US tax free (they claim expenses to make sure the subsisiary looses money) then the extra costs from the vendor decrease MS revenue and reduces their profit, which decreases the taxes in the US. The subsidiary is in a tax haven and pays no taxes. The end result is MS offshores what they are charging for cubes and ultimately pays no taxes (due to this and other scams).

Any time you see a stiuation like this where someone is charging money that is essentially billed right back and appears to make no sense it's almost guaranteed to be a tax dodge.

Re:Unusual? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43322031)

No, it's guaranteed to be standard corporate practices. I am, at this moment, sitting in an office owned by the company that owns the entire building that I work in, and the office that I am sitting in is paid for out of my department's budget, paid back to the company that our department is a part of. It allows the company to account for every inch of rentable office space and separate what it's gaining from other tenants, and what it's not gaining from it's own departments. There is no tax dodge. In fact, if they couldn't account for the costs that our department incurs it would entail a costly audit to make sure that we were NOT dodging taxes.

This whole thing is a non-story designed specifically to rile up the anti-MS crowd with FUD.

Re:Unusual? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43334719)

You are missing the point... They are working for Microsoft. These are contractors working for Microsoft on Microsoft projects.

And they can either use their own office space at their expense or they can rent it from Microsoft.

The proper analogy here is you call a contractor to renovate your kitchen, then charge him $50 a day for the workspace in your house.

No, and anyone with 1/2 a brain can figure out why that's obviously wrong.

Give someone some resource for free (3, Insightful)

rolfwind (528248) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317673)

And they'll end up abusing it.

MS has the unusual practice of charging rent (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43317679)

The vendors are using their office space, their bathrooms, their electricity, etc. It's called rent.

Costs (1)

Registered Coward v2 (447531) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317691)

Ultimately, it's a cost of doing business. It works out to about $3 per hour, so employees wind up getting paid less unless you can recoup those costs from what you charge to MS. My guess is employees wind up getting paid less unless they have a very specific in high demand skill set.

Vendors = Contractors (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43317695)

By vendors, I assume they mean contractors they hire in to write code?

So they agree a deal with a contractor, then short change them by a desk rent fee. Should have read the small print, more fool them.

Re:Vendors = Contractors (1)

alen (225700) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317709)

no, this is employees of all the companies that microsoft does business with

asus, dell, HP, symantec and dozens of others. they have employees at microsoft's offices to help enginees their products

Sounds like semantics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43317985)

"Some vendors complain privately that Microsoft pushes them to reduce the rates they charge the company, then asks them to put workers on campus, and then hits them with these additional charges."

So these are companies SUPPLY a service to Microsoft, and its a charge-back so it's money coming back into Microsoft for deals that normally go outwards.

So this ISN'T Asus, Dell etc. this is not companies making PCs and buying Microsoft Windows, they are not vendors TO Microsoft and it's not a chargeback in that case.

It sounds like semantics to me, as if they've hired some companies and they pay rent, yet the article refers to contractors as a separate group.

Re:Vendors = Contractors (2)

tylikcat (1578365) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318145)

Actually, you're sort of on to something, but not necessarily the way you mean it.

As a result of various lawsuits which accused Microsoft (accurately, IMO) of using contractors ("a dash" employees, aka dash-trash, for the a- designation on their email addresses) as a de-facto permanent labor force without the benefits, contractors now have various limitations built into their contract, including, I believe, a 90 day mandatory period between contracts totally a year of employment. (It is worth noting that every time these lawsuits went through, the end result was in the contractors being treated worse.)

Of course, in terms of running projects, having your permatemps disappear is a major pain in the ass, so a lot of companies have gone over to using "vendors" or "v dash" employees - under a different set of legal rules, part of which involves that their parent company is providing a workspace for them - so they "rent" it from microsoft. From what I can tell it allows for a group of slightly better treated permatemps.

(Disclosure: When some of the early restructuring contracting relationships came down in the mid nineties... I took a perm position. But that was back in the day when you could make more money - well, salary - as a temp than a perm employee. And I can't complain about my stock option. I'm long gone from the company, but have a few vendor friends... and even fewer perm employees. Most folks long ago sought greener pastures.)

that is why labor laws need to change / end health (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318361)

that is why labor laws need to change / end job based health insurance.

But based health insurance is just one benefit.

But in big places with lot's benefits it can also come down to for JOB X the boss think that all there works can just benefit B to get the tools needed for there job free but then what happens is the contractors can't get get or have to go under the table / buy it on there own.

Re:that is why labor laws need to change / end hea (1)

tylikcat (1578365) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318831)

I can only agree about health care. Can we become a real country, please?

I think there is a lot to be said in terms of morale for standard benefits packages... but then that just incentivizes using non-employees.

Not "Making" Millions (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43317715)

Headline says Microsoft is "making millions". I think it would be more accurate to say Microsoft is "just about breaking even" on renting office space to vendors. As others have pointed out, ~$500/month for one worker is actually a pretty darn good deal.

I'm an engineer - and I hate it when my fellow techies reveal how incredibly clueless they are about mundane business matters like overhead and G&A expenses. It's embarrassing to the tech profession.

Re:Not "Making" Millions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43317903)

I hate it when my fellow techies reveal how incredibly clueless they are about mundane business matters like overhead and G&A expenses. It's embarrassing to the tech profession.

Just like when accountants try to tell you that C# is better than Java

Re:Not "Making" Millions (1)

khallow (566160) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318051)

No, I have to agree with the grandparent here. A lot of people here will see the high tech industry - past, present, or future. They should be more aware of how much basic office infrastructure costs.

Re:Not "Making" Millions (1)

rudy_wayne (414635) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317991)

Headline says Microsoft is "making millions". I think it would be more accurate to say Microsoft is "just about breaking even" on renting office space to vendors.

It would be more accurate to say that Microsoft is "charging millions". But then we all know how well accuracy is regarded here.

Smart (3, Interesting)

houbou (1097327) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317725)

Don't know why it is such great news.
I mean, Microsoft is being smart and it seems like what they charge is a pittance and the vendors can probably use this as a tax deductible expense.
After all, vendors are in the business of making money with their products, in this case, Microsoft based products, so, Microsoft gives them a hell of a great deal, and I mean, it seems like a cheap price for them to work on their products, having access to Microsoft themselves. I think it's just smart.

Re:Smart (1)

AvitarX (172628) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318011)

Every expense is tax deductible for a company. So it most definitely is.

Re:Smart (1)

stepdown (1352479) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318309)

Not every expense is recognised by the tax authorities, the classic example being depreciation.

This does seem deductible though, unless something else complicates matters like the companies being related parties etc.

Re:Smart (1)

AvitarX (172628) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318457)

Depreciation is too deductible, you buy a durable good and It's revenue neutral, then you take the depreciation over the life of the good.

Re:Smart (1)

Rich0 (548339) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318577)

Depreciation is certainly deductible, provided you follow the relevant accounting rules. In fact, depreciation generally works against a company from a tax perspective.

Suppose you earn $1M after various expenses, but you bought a $1M machine. Without using depreciation you would just deduct that $1M from your income and pay no taxes. Governments force you to depreciate it, which means that you end up deducting $100k/yr for 10 years, or something to that effect. The result is that this year you pay takes on $900k income, not $0. Sure, you get to deduct the $100k every year for a decade, but if you could save the tax money up front you could stick it in the bank and you'd be further ahead after a decade (assuming you didn't have a better use for it anyway). Either way you still have $1M less to spend on stuff (well, assuming you don't take out a loan using the $1M machine as collateral).

From a balance sheet perspective depreciation lets you show that you made a profit this year, despite spending all your money on that machine. It is more useful to stock purchasers as well - spending $1M on a machine that will help the company make more money next year is not the same kind of spending as having to spend $1M paying your janitors just for this year. If you went bankrupt presumably you could get some of that $1M back as well selling the thing.

Re:Smart (1)

stepdown (1352479) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318651)

I should have qualified that by saying that the accounting calculation of depreciation is usually very different from the tax figure.

In the UK at least no depreciation is allowable, instead capital allowances are given, sometimes a 100% deduction in the first year to encourage investment.

Why the hate? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43317739)

It seems to me that Slashdot (or Dice Holdings) is bothered when Microsoft makes money, whether it be through their products or anything else. And the references to the movie Office Space are off-topic.

Rent is usually expensed (2)

Manfre (631065) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317761)

The contractors at my company are required to use a company provided laptop, which is rented out. Every month the contractors include that expense in the invoice. It's expected and standard practice.

I've never paid rent (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43318065)

I've never ever paid rent on any of my contracts, why on earth would you? The company requires you to work on site, they set the terms that require you sit at that desk. Why on earth would you then rent the desk from them? If I hire an electrician to rewire my house, do I then charge him rent for being in my house?

And the article mentions some vendors pay it and some don't, which sounds more like a tax dodge, perhaps some vendors are from a different state (or country) and MS pay less tax as a result of an interstate billing trick, or similar. But it does sound like it's just budget fighting between departments with the facilities department trying to bill anyone they can.

Re:I've never paid rent (1)

Rich0 (548339) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318615)

Well, if you have to pay rent you just include it in your bid.

If your competitor can do the job without needing to be on-site they might be able to outbid you. Usually the whole idea of this sort of thing is to try to get people to not be onsite.

As far as vendors being treated differently, I suspect that this is just the difference between contingent labor and what most would consider true contracting.

A contingent worker is just a body - they show up, get paid by the hour, and do whatever their assigned supervisor tells them to. They're just like an employee, but usually very limited in duration so that the company doesn't have to treat them as an employee. They're intended to help fill peaks, and they get let go when work isn't available.

The other arrangement is when a company creates a statement of work, gets bids, and then pay to get the job done. This would be analogous to hiring a plumber. You probably wouldn't charge a plumber rent, but you might not want to loan them your tools either. In this sort of arrangement the company usually wants the contractor to be as self-sufficient as possible. They don't care how they get the job done, how many people they hire, or how many hours they work. They're likely paying a flat rate to deliver a stated project in a stated duration. In this arrangement giving the contractor incentive to not park a million bodies in your office is useful. If they need to park a few they can just include your chargebacks in their price.

Re:I've never paid rent (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319513)

Solution: Drive a small motorhome and work from that in their parking lot. I assume parking and washrooms are still free? :)

Re:I've never paid rent (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43323069)

I'm a V- working at MSFT today, so this makes sense. The first of the year, just about all V- and A- contractors were moved from 2 people per office to 6 or more people in small conference rooms on every floor. We have a small table that holds a monitor, a 4 year old computer and a chair, no phones, horrible air-conditioning and all sharing a single network connection. They then moved FTE's from other buildings to the offices we vacated, so now we have twice as many people in the same area. The bathrooms run non-stop, with lines to get into them, the kitchen area is always busy.

So, Microsoft has figured out how to make money off of the deal after all, just screw the contractors. I know the vendor companies won't be losing money, they just pay less, there is always a willing H1B waiting to take your spot and they don't care about these things.

under the law / IRS rules degree of control (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318445)

under the law / IRS rules the degree of control can make if they say to much about what you can do / what tools you use you may be a employee and the company has to pay up there part of the tax obligations. [] [] []

Types of Instructions Given

An employee is generally subject to the business’s instructions about when, where, and how to work. All of the following are examples of types of instructions about how to do work.

        When and where to do the work.
        What tools or equipment to use.
        What workers to hire or to assist with the work.
        Where to purchase supplies and services.
        What work must be performed by a specified individual.
        What order or sequence to follow when performing the work.

Microsoft Thinking (0)

DaMattster (977781) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317797)

In the Microsoft-mind, a vendor should feel honored and privileged to be able to have a client with such world recognition that they should be willing to rent office space from the Redmond complex. It's arrogance plain and simple and Microsoft is slowly and steadily becoming less relevant in computing today. We'll see how longer MS can capitalize on its own name to charge for office space in its own complex. I wonder how many vendors eventually just say "fuck it!" and walk away

Re:Microsoft Thinking (4, Interesting)

rudy_wayne (414635) | about a year and a half ago | (#43317983)

It's arrogance plain and simple and Microsoft is slowly and steadily becoming less relevant in computing today.

You're absolutely right. Microsoft is so totally irrelevant that last year they only had $68 Billion in revenue and only had the highest profits in the company's history. Yep, you nailed it. Microsoft is failing and failing fast.

67, 66, 65, 64... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43318657)

PC market is shrinking, Ballmer is raising prices, this is just another price rise on a locked in buyer.

Re:Microsoft Thinking (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43318741)

What was their last good product release?

Re:Microsoft Thinking (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43323117)

Server 2012. Office 2012, along with Visual Studio 2012 could also be included. I haven't even looked at some of their other products like recent versions of Exchange.

Afraid (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43317949)

I am now afraid that slashdot reports me, At my triplex I charge $400 nothing include.

Please slashdot shhhhhhh

So FUCKING what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43318017)

If the vendors didn't want to be there, they wouldn't pay. They're willing to pay, and Microsoft charges for the access.


I don't exactly like Microsoft, but Jesus H. Fucking Christ, if you had an empty room in your house, you'd charge to rent it out, wouldn't you?

Fine print on Microsoft's bill was disconcerting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43318191)

The new rate was $500/month per cubicle, plus $10/month for a special "Replacement fund for office furniture damaged by the CEO".

Are rates comparable to other offices in the area? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43318319)

So how does MS stack up as a landlord - are these rates good compared to other offices in the area?

talking about landlord landlords do they have to f (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about a year and a half ago | (#43318967)

talking about landlord landlords do they have to follow all the landlord tenant laws?

blinded by money (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43318681)

so many companies are blinded by the possibility of acquiring vast amounts of Microsoft Money(like monopoly money) they're still paying Microsoft in hopes of getting there. There are lots of road-kill scenarios which should have caused pause to this but there are also many examples of companies wedding Microsoft and doing quite well. No doubt it's the smaller vendors who are falling for this scam Microsoft is able to capitalize on and it'll continue for years to come.

It does appear that these days are numbered as a large portion of the market shifts from the desktop and Microsoft continues to fail on the mobile platforms.

This does make me wonder if Microsoft is moving money back into these vendors pockets out of another department(marketing?) for the ability to do some creative financing budgets.

Where's the story here, exactly? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319089)

Microsoft is charging non-MSFT companies for occupying MSFT space for testing/using products that in all likelihood is in the vendors' best interest. Which is, you know, why the vendors are paying, willingly, for that office space. Because it benefits them. Because they make money for testing it or believe it's a solid investment in their future. Oh no. Horror.

Are there signs of coercion here? That MSFT is twisting vendors' arms to occupy office space at their various campuses globally to make a piddly $25M/year?

Shameful this made it beyond the /. editors' round file.

Office Space II: Bill Lumbergh Takes Redmond (0)

theodp (442580) | about a year and a half ago | (#43319253)

"'Mmm, yeah, I'm going to have to go ahead and ask you to pay $6,120 to come in to work on Sunday..." More Bill Lumbergh quotes. []

Really, how is this news? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43319451)

Someone is charging money for renting a space. How is that news? I sincerely hope microsoft starts raising the rent on developers, even to the point where they start having to switch operations over to Android development. Its about time microsoft started charging for the privilege of being on the worlds most monopolistic desktop. I wouldn't even be surprised if developers were 'taxed' a 'single M$ developer' tax for each project: they would have to pay the salary of one microsoft 'internal' developer, even though they won't directly get the benefits of having that developer. Their application might expose a critical flaw in the microsoft system, which will need to be fixed, and because their application exposed the flaw, they have to pay to get it (potentially) fixed.

Great way to end the MS epoc. (1)

Sla$hPot (1189603) | about a year and a half ago | (#43320483)

MS is fucking their last customers over one final time, by undercutting start ups and other software companies trying to make a living.
This must be their last straw that they are pulling *ggg*.

Joint Interoperability Test Command does as well (1)

Zeorge (1954266) | about a year and a half ago | (#43322673)

They charge for power, phone drop, internet drop. But, it's to get approval for products that could easily be in a contract worth 100x that amount.
Check for New Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?