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Let Them Eat Teslas

Soulskill posted about a year and a half ago | from the om-nom-nom dept.

Transportation 461

theodp writes "If you're a bright kid who wants to prepare for the 21st century workforce (PDF) by studying engineering at Purdue, the government will help your parents pay the $100,000 or so tuition tab with a 7.9% interest loan (plus 4% fees) that's likely to be non-dischargeable in bankruptcy and paid back with after-tax money. If, on the other hand, you want to buy a tricked-out $100,000 Model S, Tesla has teamed up with the government, Wells Fargo, and U.S. Bank on what it calls a 'Revolutionary New Finance Product' that enables those who play the game right to avoid paying sales tax, get the government to pick up the first $15,000 (no down payment needed!), and also receive a 2.95% bankruptcy-dischargeable loan for the balance, the payments for which could be tax-deductible. Yep, 'Revolutionary' may be about right!"

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LOL! American "priorities"! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346437)

LOL! American "priorities"!

Re:LOL! American "priorities"! (5, Insightful)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346469)

Our government is being managed for the benefit of corporate elites. It's the simplest and most reasonable explanation for what looks like total idiocy from the outside.

Re:LOL! American "priorities"! (4, Insightful)

Stormthirst (66538) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346693)

From the outside?

Re:LOL! American "priorities"! (1)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346739)

- point

Re:LOL! American "priorities"! (5, Insightful)

kilfarsnar (561956) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346903)

Our entire economy and society is being managed for the benefit of corporate elites. It's the simplest and most reasonable explanation for what looks like total idiocy from the outside.

FTFY

Re:LOL! American "priorities"! (2)

Big Hairy Ian (1155547) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346573)

Is this energy efficient spam??

Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (5, Informative)

trout007 (975317) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346441)

They can always repo your car.

This is why Education should be funded where the risk is borne by the one making the loan. The repayment terms should be based on a percent of the students income for a fixed number of years.

These guys are trying to do it.

https://www.upstart.com/ [upstart.com]

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (1)

TheRealRainFall (1464687) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346459)

Isn't this more or less the Cuban model, but with an unspoken contract and no buyout options?

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (2)

jodido (1052890) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346823)

Not sure what you mean by "Cuban model." In Cuba all education is free. All. Free.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (5, Interesting)

SJHillman (1966756) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346467)

Very good point...
With a car loan, the car is collateral. If you default, they can take back the car.
With a student loan, what are they going to do? Cut out sections of your brain?

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (5, Funny)

Captain Hook (923766) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346525)

"This is your brain..." "And this is your brain after defaulting on an education loan..." Cut to shot of egg being smashed under a frying pan.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346711)

"This is your brain..."
"And this is your brain after defaulting on an education loan..."
Cut to shot of egg being smashed under a frying pan.

No dude, after a $100,000 investment by the government, you do not smash and fry repo'd brains (unless you're working for the Zombie Food Stamp Program).

This [argonbosch.com] is what the government does with repo'd brains. Imagine a Beowulf cluster of them.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (4, Insightful)

Custard Horse (1527495) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346531)

And who underwrites the losses for students who flunk out, die, refuse to work or only work for minimum wage (they need to be able to retain minimum wage to live), and those who are committed to prison for whatever offence?

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (1)

Custard Horse (1527495) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346549)

...not to mention those that take themselves and their education to another country to earn a living. Would extraordinary rendition be appropriate?

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (5, Insightful)

hughbar (579555) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346645)

Yes naughty students for dying just to avoid their financial obligations. Never heard of such outrageous behaviour.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (3, Funny)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346811)

Quite frankly, if he wasn't dead, I'd have him expelled.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (1)

trout007 (975317) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346667)

Think of it like buying stock. You get a cut of the profits. If the company is wiped out you take a loss.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (1)

Charcharodon (611187) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346585)

In many cases, college students, degree or no, would have very little brains they could spare.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (1)

rssrss (686344) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346837)

Galley slaves.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346473)

This is why Education should be funded where the risk is borne by the one making the loan. The repayment terms should be based on a percent of the students income for a fixed number of years.

This is why Education should be funded by The People. If we took the profit motive out of education we wouldn't have to worry about the "administration" making several times what the instructors do for not even teaching.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (1)

Sulphur (1548251) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346695)

This is why Education should be funded where the risk is borne by the one making the loan. The repayment terms should be based on a percent of the students income for a fixed number of years.

This is why Education should be funded by The People. If we took the profit motive out of education we wouldn't have to worry about the "administration" making several times what the instructors do for not even teaching.

Or learning.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (4, Insightful)

Stormthirst (66538) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346717)

Oooohhh!!! The scary spookiness of Socialism.

You're right of course.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346749)

This is why Education should be funded by The People. If we took the profit motive out of education we wouldn't have to worry about the "administration" making several times what the instructors do for not even teaching.

Yeah. Because public officials never use the power of their office to accumulate wealth and benefits at the expense of the public. Because without profit motive there is no accountability. You couldn't possibly be this naive. Is it still April fools somewhere?

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (2)

Artifakt (700173) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346849)

Ultimately, claiming that the only way to ensure accountability is the profit motive is claiming that government itself doesn't and can't work. If criminal law can't ensure accountabilty, if elections and recalls can't ensure accountability, then there's no rationale for ANY form of democratic government. So how do you figure the profit motive will work where civil law can't ensure the sanctity of contract? Isn't that an accountability issue? (And you're posting as AC and insulting people to boot - might want to rethink that)

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (5, Insightful)

thoth (7907) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346875)

Here's the thing, the free market isn't some magic fairy that shits pots of gold and sprinkles rainbow dust everywhere.

If you want to have education with a profit motive, then the RISK should be borne by universities. Getting government guaranteed loans with bankruptcy exemptions so it can be handed over to a for-PROFIT institution is total bullshit. In this situation, the university is motivated to crank up tuition with no ceiling. When the RISK is borne by universities, they'll price their damn "product" better, screen students better, perhaps even innovate (e.g. charge different amounts for degrees based on perceived ability to earn income).

Of course, that would lead to large stratification of education, with the wealthy drawn like a magnet to the best schools, the poor having to do with leftovers, etc.

And I would argue that outcome is unacceptable for a 21st century superpower, due to the fact that the free market outcome would not adequately distribute available resources, so education should be exempted or removed and handled by "the public" whereby the society itself benefits.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (2)

Anne_Nonymous (313852) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346755)

I'm happy to pay taxes to educate children and young adults in basic skills such as writing and mathematics.

I don't want to send my tax dollars to for profit "colleges" to pay for worthless education and mind-candy degrees.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346809)

Yes, fix public schools first. Reading, writing, arithmetic. If a high school graduate can't do all those three, fail them. In the mean time, make student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy. You can't get a loan for college? Too bad. We already have a lot of degree holders.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346861)

Forget high school graduate. There should be tests that determine these things at various grade levels and failure to pass means being held back. Can't read? Get to do first grade again.

Also allow schools to expel trouble makers. Make their parents pay for their education if they cannot at least manage to not be disruptive. If the parents cannot pay, place them in alternative education situations.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346775)

This is why Education should be funded by The People. If we took the profit motive out of education we wouldn't have to worry about the "administration" making several times what the instructors do for not even teaching.

Given that state funded research institutions receive a very large portion of their funding from the government in the form of general funding and institutions like NIH and NSF, what makes you think this is true?

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (3, Interesting)

MightyYar (622222) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346855)

This is why Education should be funded by The People.

I agree... to a point. I think public education should be extended two years such that anyone can get an associates or technical degree for free. That seems to be where the sweet spot is these days in terms of return on investment. A high school diploma is more or less worthless these days. At this point in time, I don't think we should be funding people's advanced degrees.

also need to cut fluff and filler from Education. (1, Flamebait)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346505)

also need to cut fluff and filler from Education.

The non-dischargeable in bankruptcy leads to lot's of joke majors and lot's of iffy schools that spend more ad's then Education.

Also more non college options need to be hear as well as more apprenticeship / trades / tech schools that don't take 4+ years of pure class room.

Re:also need to cut fluff and filler from Educatio (2)

HarrySquatter (1698416) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346581)

It's always funny to hear your illiterate, anti-education rants. Maybe if you had taken some of those "fluff and filler" classes that maybe you could form cogent sentences?

Re:also need to cut fluff and filler from Educatio (3, Funny)

paiute (550198) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346687)

Maybe if you had taken some of those "fluff and filler" classes that maybe you could form cogent sentences?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry's_law [wikipedia.org]

Re:also need to cut fluff and filler from Educatio (1)

drakaan (688386) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346745)

That was awesome. Also, now I have a new Wikipedia page to share.

Re:also need to cut fluff and filler from Educatio (1)

Wovel (964431) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346921)

Priceless.

Re:also need to cut fluff and filler from Educatio (1)

drakaan (688386) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346731)

All right, I can't stop myself (and I tried, believe me). Don't you mean "coherent"?

The word "cogent" might fit there, but it sounded like you were irritated by poor grammar, rather than the post being generally unpersuasive...

Re:also need to cut fluff and filler from Educatio (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346651)

I was with you until the end, I have seen tech school output and it sucks.

Sure they know a couple software products, but nothing of what is going on under the hood. They can tell you what a subnet mask is but not why or how it works. They think packet captures are black magic and that reboot is the solution to all tech problems. They have no idea at a basic level. I had one recently try to claim his network speeds to a host on the same subnet and the same switch changed when he changed the gateway. He had no concept of why that is. That is the difference between knowing what button to push and why you would push that button. A few years down the road and they are totally useless since the products they learned on are now out of the market. Since they have no basic understanding moving on to the next product is a huge struggle.

Re:also need to cut fluff and filler from Educatio (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346669)

Dammit slashdot let me edit!

  "He had no concept of why that is" should have been "He had no concept of why that is wrong."

And people with CS degrees can be just as clueless (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346863)

And people with CS degrees can be just as clueless or are loaded with theory but little to no of the skills needed to do a job day to day.

Re:And people with CS degrees can be just as cluel (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346917)

CS degrees have nothing to do with what I just discussed. Believe it or not their are universities that have IT and Network administration(Not active directory, actual network stuff, windows people) programs.

Theory and having learned how to learn will mean they can pick up job skills quickly. A lack of theory means those tech school grads will likely never know why or the best way just the way the book says to do it.

Re:And people with CS degrees can be just as cluel (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346931)

s/their/there/

Slashdot, please let us edit our posts for a couple minutes at least.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346591)

The repayment terms should be based on a percent of the students income for a fixed number of years.

The problem is that, to do it that way, you can't give a loan to everyone. To make that model work, you would have to weed out the slackers and medieval art majors who have no immediate prospects of making a decent income at graduation. The way the system is set up now, everyone is basically treated equally when it comes to federal guaranteed student loans, be they stoners/dance majors or over-achievers/engineering majors. That would never fly under a "pay a % of your income for X years" model.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (1)

trout007 (975317) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346697)

Sure it would. Just the terms would be worse. If anything it would help those who can get into great schools but can't afford it. If you take a lousy major from a lousy school your % of income for a certain loan will be much higher than if you took a major where you could make money.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346733)

Who are these people who get into great schools and cannot afford it?

The great schools seem to have pretty generous scholarship programs.

Either way this ignore the fact that all of society benefits from an educated populace. Even those educations that do not make much money. This means society should at least be chipping in.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (5, Interesting)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346621)

Great, so I get a loan and don't work or part time for the first X years.

How about we just admit having an educated society is a good thing and we make a university education free to those who qualify.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346783)

Hmm, so if a loan took 10% of income, I would have a choice of getting a job that paid say $50k+, and earning $45k+ for a few years after loan payments were taken out, or work part time for less, say $20k a year, which becomes $18k after loan payments. Even if the part time work was exempt from loan payments, the choice would be to earn $20k a year instead of $45k a year, because you wanted to "save" the $5k a year in loan payments?

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346831)

No, because some people are just malicious dicks.
You can't count on rational actors, no one is a rational actor all the time and a few are never rational.

I could also work off the books to avoid paying this, or just leave the country.

What you are talking about is not a loan, but instead a form of indentured servitude.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (1)

xaxa (988988) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346635)

This is why Education should be funded where the risk is borne by the one making the loan. The repayment terms should be based on a percent of the students income for a fixed number of years.

This is how my British student loan works. The government underwrites the risk, some privatised company manages everything, and I pay off the loan gradually -- minimum 9% of my earnings over £16,000. The interest rate is low (it was very low, but they changed the rules -- I think it's now 1.5%).

If I were to earn less than £16,000 I wouldn't pay off anything. If I die, or become permanently unable to work, the loan is written off. Everyone is entitled to one loan (I think).

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (1)

trout007 (975317) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346729)

I should have been more clear. It's not actually a loan but an investment. There is no balance or interest.

The person looking for the funds pledges a certain percent of their income for 10 years. I think this company does their own predictions and figures out how much money they will get per percent. But an exchange could be established where people bid for that amount.

Say it's 5% of income for 10 years. It doesn't matter if you are unemployed the whole time or win the Lottery, you owe the 5%.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346793)

So indentured servitude is what you really mean.

How about instead we recognize the benefit to society of having an educated populace and have university education be made available to qualified applicants at a cost low enough that these schemes are not needed?

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (4, Interesting)

Sarten-X (1102295) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346709)

Wait, you mean the summary is misleading me? I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you! Maybe the details of the Tesla deal will bring some truth:

US Bank and Wells Fargo will provide 10% down financing on approved credit, and the down payment is covered or more than covered by US Federal and state tax credits ranging from $7,500 to $15,000. New Jersey, Washington and DC also have no sales tax for electric vehicles. These advantages are not available when leasing.

So buyers don't "get the government to pick up the first $15,000 (no down payment needed!)", but rather they get a government credit that may cover the 10% down payment, assuming their purchase qualifies for the various government programs. There's no further details on what exactly the tax credits are, but my suspicion is that they're generic credits for buying an electric car or other blessed "green" technology, and probably cover 7.5% to 15% of the item's value..

After 36 months, you have the right, but not the obligation to sell your Model S to Tesla for the same residual value percentage as the iconic Mercedes S Class, one of the finest premium sedans in the world, made by Daimler (also a Tesla partner and investor).

Not only is Tesla guaranteeing that resale value, but Tesla CEO Elon Musk is personally standing behind that guarantee to give customers absolute peace of mind about the value of the asset they are purchasing.

And here's the part that's being touted as "revolutionary". The company founder is apparently personally guaranteeing the car's resale value. That's it. We're back to the idealized old days where company owners stood by their products and actually put money behind having satisfied customers. Not really "revolutionary" in my book, but I don't write headlines.

As is usual for Slashdot these days, the summary is sensationalist bullshit and most of the comments are knee-jerk anti-government reactions.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (1)

GLMDesigns (2044134) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346759)

I've been pushing for this for years. I haven't seen upstart.com, so thanks. I will take a look at this. To me it's simple: the lender takes a very small percentage from your salary at the lower payscales and then the percentage increases somewhat as your pay rises until you've paid off the loan + agreed upon interest.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346881)

That is how it works right now.

You don't have to pay back much if you do not make much money. They can only take a max of some percentage, but then the loan takes forever to pay off and interest of course does its dirty work and makes you even more in debt.

Re:Collateralized vs Non-Collateralized Loans (1)

Meeni (1815694) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346801)

And we could call this taxes, and make education free for all who merits.

So what? (4, Funny)

bistromath007 (1253428) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346445)

I don't really have a problem with this. Everyone knows that a car, even considering that they quickly depreciate, is much more valuable to the average person than most college degrees.

I defy you to prove me wrong. :|

Re:So what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346553)

I defy you to prove me wrong. :|

I don't need to. You have only stated an opinion, not presented any data for why you are right.

Re:So what? (1)

ozydingo (922211) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346625)

Actually, he stated a claim, that everyone knows such and such (regardless of the fact that such and such included the evaluation of a subjective opinion, his was still a factual claim). But since you didn't know what he was talking about, I take that as proof that he was wrong.

Re:So what? (1)

hackula (2596247) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346613)

You have to be kidding me. The data shows quite the opposite:

"Average annual earnings of individuals with a bachelor's degree are more than 75 percent higher than the earnings of high school graduates. These additional earnings sum to more than $1 million over a lifetime."

http://www.aei.org/article/education/higher-education/how-much-is-that-bachelors-degree-really-worth/ [aei.org]

Re:So what? (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346671)

Depends which car we're talking about, there are plenty in the 7-digit range. Although yes that is more than a Tesla, however I think that this may be another instance of the mean vs. median problem with a few hyper-rich people skewing the average upwards.

Lease Tesla (4, Funny)

0100010001010011 (652467) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346447)

Sell Tesla.

Use funds for college.

Re:Lease Tesla (3, Informative)

coinreturn (617535) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346463)

Sell Tesla.

Use funds for college.

Minor detail: if you have a loan against that car, they hold the pink slip. Good luck selling it without one.

Re:Good luck selling it without one (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346643)

You sir, need some more Business classes! : )

Re:Good luck selling it without one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346719)

But he always travels Economy class, you insensitive clod!

consumer army (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346451)

We need consumers!

Those consumers don't have to rely on such costly things as JOBS... and definitely not any job that corporation needs to pay for.

NAW! Let them sell their organs.

Purdue? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346455)

Why was Purdue singled out? how about Stanford, MIT, or some of the other strong STEM schools? College is a scam, its not just Purdue...When I have kids, I will advise them to avoid college unless we get some real changes in the system.

Re:Purdue? (2)

MightyYar (622222) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346891)

College isn't a scam, but you have to know what you want out of it. If you don't know what you want to do yet when you graduate high school, you should probably get some employment experience in fields that interest you. You should still take some base level courses at a community college (and do well in them)... all of the 101 courses will probably transfer into whatever you end up doing - but there's no sense in going into deep debt without a clear goal in mind.

Yeah, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346461)

Tesla is a JOB CREATOR. Can't say that about your fancy edjucasion, now can you?!

Easy: buy a tesla, go to school (1, Insightful)

getuid() (1305889) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346465)

1. Buy a tesla
2. Sell the tesla for 90% of its market value
3. ???
4. Profit from a government-financed education at 2.95% (minus 10k or so "lost in transaction")

Re:Easy: buy a tesla, go to school (3, Informative)

DigitalReverend (901909) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346601)

Apparently you have never financed a vehicle. The bank holds the actual title, you only get a certificate of registration. You cannot sell the car without the title, and the bank will not release it without the loan being paid off.
So if you tried to sell the car, the bank would take the money and you'd end up with nothing.

Re:Easy: buy a tesla, go to school (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346675)

Sublease the car with an option to transfer ownership for $1 at the end of the lease.

Re:Easy: buy a tesla, go to school (1)

MightyYar (622222) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346905)

Problem: loan will come due on sale, and the lender won't give you the title until it is satisfied.

There is a simple reason for this: (1, Insightful)

fredrated (639554) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346475)

It benefits the wealthy. That is what America does: increase the value of the already wealthy, while the rest of us can suck garbage out of a landfill.
Welcome to America! Land of the greatest disparity between the wealthy and the rest of us.

Re:There is a simple reason for this: (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346701)

Exactly, if you're a rich bastard what are you gonna tell the politicians to do, give you a price break on your decadent toys, or make it easier for the peons to get an education, increasing the pool of people who could potentially be a threat to your corporate empire and decreasing the educated workforce's dependence on debt?

Re:There is a simple reason for this: (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346743)

Great as the disparity may be, we still have the richest poor people in the world.

Re:There is a simple reason for this: (1)

Jay Juch (2822607) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346817)

Seriously? Let's not get carried away. It's shameful to say such things while we have countries like North Korea.

Risks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346477)

The risk of a personal loan is greater than a car loan.

Not really the same (3, Informative)

mschiller (764721) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346483)

While it would be easy to say Government just prefers the sheeple broke and stupid... These really aren't the same. Cars can be repo'ed.. Your education can't be repo'ed.. Further from a Govt perspective the return in tax income from your education is risky.. You might never finish school. Might end up working in India and not paying taxes.. You might never repay those loans if given the choice because you won't lose anything.. The car might seem like a loss, but you will definitely pay taxes on stuff for the car like tires, registration and property taxes etc the employees who built the car will pay income tax etc. Plus there is the political side of green jobs.....

Re:Not really the same (0)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346539)

Though what is being passed off as "education" is more or less specific job training and nothing to do with education, and this is especially true at the high school level and the "make education relevant to jobs" crowd would LOVE to see it totally apply to colleges.

If you teach people in college how to be good workers with Microsoft office their "education" is irrelevant in less than two years.

Not exactly (4, Insightful)

Adifex (2856821) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346485)

Nissan took 1.4 billion from the feds for the Leaf and produced laughable results. Tesla took a third of that and produces the Motor Trend car of the year, and is set to pay off the loan early. I don't blame the DOE for wanting to help them out some more. Note: from a student with a non-dischargeable 7.9% loan.

Re:Not exactly (3, Insightful)

SJHillman (1966756) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346511)

As a former student with a non-dischargeable 6.8% loan (due to finally be paid off in two weeks, yay), I agree. Sure, the Tesla might be aimed at Rich Guys right now, but that's the way most new technology goes - especially in cars. How many standard features in this year's Focus or Camry used to be exclusive to high-end cars a few decades ago or less? Quite a few. If you get Rich Guys to make it profitable in the beginning, those technological advancements will become affordable and even standard within most of our lifetimes.

Re:Not exactly (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346799)

I agree with everything you've said. The thing is, the infrastructure for electric cars just isn't here yet and won't be for quite a while to make it feasible for someone like me. Until there's a charging station off of every exit, electric cars won't work for me. And trip planning [carstations.com] is like making a flight plan.

For the foreseeable future, Tesla cars are going to be toys for rich folks and early adopters.

I think Tesla will eventually go the way of the DeLorean. The big car makers are the ones who will have to pick up the ball and keep it rolling because they have the financial and political clout.

Re:Not exactly (2)

polar red (215081) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346899)

"charging station" Funny dat. A charging station for an electric car is orders of magnitude cheaper than a petrol station.

Stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346493)

The difference between the to loans is the collateral. In the case of the tuition loan your promise that eventually you will turn into gainfully employed person and not a worthless slack is all the creditor has, hence the higher interest rate and protections for the creditor. In the case of the car loan, there is the car serving as a collateral that the creditor can reposes and sell to cover in full or in part his losses.

Having said that I am in the strong opinion that higher education should be 'free', meaning that tuition should be paid by the government on merit basis. I also strongly disapprove of the practice to use loans as means to avoid taxes.

Hold on there (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346495)

Elon Musk is not the second coming of Christ? But but but private space colonies!

Re:Hold on there (1)

hackula (2596247) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346641)

Elon Musk == Space Jesus

Saw that on Bloomberg (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346533)

You basically lease a Model S for $500 a month and trade it in for a Class S Mercedes-Benz at the ed of the leasing period.

Where do I sign????

Real cost of lease (1)

fyngyrz (762201) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346873)

Actually, the lease is over $1000/month. The $500/month figure is a made up number that comes from applying savings they are wanting you to think you'll make. But the assumptions behind the putative savings specify how much you drive, what your time is worth (assumption being $100/hour), an average price of gas being $5/gallon, and that electricity prices remain stable, and that electricity doesn't suddenly acquire a road tax to make up for the fact that you're using the roads, but not paying for them like the rest of us.

Bottom line, though, is you'll be putting out over $1000/month on that lease for those thirty months if you take the deal as advertised. Whatever your circumstances.

Grow up. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346541)

Welcome to the real world kiddies.

It's not just the corporate elites. It's the elites period. Once day you'll be one of them. And you will shit on your fellow man with just as much disdain as the current batch of elites do now.

The only fair system is the one that does nothing equally for everyone, when it doesn't people pick favorites, and there is nothing in this world like being the adopted, bastard, redheaded stepchild in the family.

Re:Grow up. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346577)

Listen, you ass...

The elite's number one priority in the U.S. to to make sure there aren't too many elites. 99.99% of the people reading this will never be any sort of "elite." You are apparently the one who hasn't "grown up" and realized what is going on in this country right now.

slow news day.... (1)

mhsobhani (2688177) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346559)

so is it news or is it rhetoric?

Re:slow news day.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346771)

and it doesn't even say where we can eat Teslas. There's this one from 2008 [flickr.com] , but I couldn't find a model S. Is there a new 3d printer that can print edible Teslas?

Tesla Loan is BS (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346599)

Man geeks are drinking the Tesla Kool-Aid.

The Tesla program costs about $1,100/mo even for their cheapest model and the $15,000 only applies for people in West Virginia.

The $500/mo pricing they keep quoting is a huge fabrication based on "total cost of ownership". Even with their calculator, and assuming the lowest model, you would need to drive that sucker to it's max range 5 days a week every week for three years to actually make the ownership cost $600/mo less than a gas car.

neither should receive government support (1)

stenvar (2789879) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346609)

A larger fraction of the US population has college degrees than in most other industrialized nations. Encouraging more people to get college degrees will not raise the standard of living or incomes, it will simply mean that we end up with more waiters and cab drivers with college degrees. Subsidizing more college degrees with public funding or loans will mean that tuition rates will keep rising and more and more jobs will require college degrees even though they don't need it.

As for electric vehicles and subsidies for them, it's unclear what purpose these subsidies are supposed to serve. The Tesla is not a mass market car, and no amount of subsidies is going to help it develop the economies of scale to bring the price down. Either electric vehicles make economic sense, in which case subsidies aren't needed, or they don't, in which case subsidies are wasted.

Tesla's going to track your every move (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346617)

They tipped their hand when their loudmouth CEO went after the NY Times reporter. Every move you make in that car is logged by GPS and instrument recordings and is uploaded to Tesla's servers for analysis, and yes, they know exactly who you are.

So if you stop at a strip club for a night, well....

Re:Tesla's going to track your every move (1)

DigitalReverend (901909) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346683)

It is not uploaded until the reporter brings it back to the factory. They already stated that they only do this for the vehicles they loan out for reviewers.

Re:Tesla's going to track your every move (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346713)

well what?
They are going to tell someone I went to a legal establishment and paid for legal services?

They already stated they disable this logging on customer cars, but even if they did not who cares if I went to a strip club?

Wonderful (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346639)

Nothing like facing bankruptcy for buying a goddamn car.

Stop whining, use the arbitrage opportunity. (1)

macson_g (1551397) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346691)

Just take the loan, buy the car, sell it for cash and pay your tuition fees. Easy-peasy :)

Guess what (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43346747)

If you stop paying for the car, they take the car. If you stop paying for the education, you keep the education. That's why you can't get rid of the debt in bankruptcy.

If you are a bright kid and study engineering at Purdue, the government's support of new investments in technology will provide you with 1) direct employment opportunities from the program in the short-term and 2) hopefully provide long-term employment opportunities by building a successful self-supporting industry. Those benefits, I might add, accrue probably to engineers more than any other group, so it's sort of a weird choice for someone hoping to go into engineering.

Looking at the bigger picture, the U.S. government has a large interest in reducing its/your use and dependence on oil. Oil is dirty (affecting air and climate that you, as a young bright kid, will be using for a long time) and requires a huge amount of money to ensure a stable supply (see: U.S. Military). The "market" doesn't see either of these things (as the costs are not borne by those who pollute / use oil) so the government is subsidizing energy/transportation technology that has less of those costs hoping it can ultimately be supported by the market.

Should the US subsidize a college diploma to a greater degree? Probably, but let's not pretend that the Tesla support is because it's a luxury good. The US government supports expensive electric cars because electric cars are expensive. Some work can be done in the lab, but some real-world experience and production is important too.

This reminds me of a quote (1)

slashmydots (2189826) | about a year and a half ago | (#43346877)

from King of the Hill: "That guy's done more in a quarter mile than I've done in my entire life."
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