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Major UK Retailers Mislabel Windows RT As Windows 8

timothy posted about a year and a half ago | from the seriously-what's-the-difference dept.

Microsoft 106

Barence writes "Major British retailers such as Argos and Tesco are mis-selling Windows RT devices as Windows 8 PCs, PC Pro has discovered. The confusion over Microsoft's ARM-based version of Windows could lead to consumers buying the wrong machines, and the wrong software to go with them. Argos, for example, recommends Norton Mobile Security as an add-on for its mis-labelled Windows 8 machine, despite that product only working on Android and iOS."

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If they're buying windows 8 or windows RT (0, Troll)

bobstreo (1320787) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358399)

They are buying the wrong machines.

Re:If they're buying windows 8 or windows RT (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43358537)

Of course Argos recommend Norton Mobile Security. The box is made of a much tougher card and helps the back of your device's display stay uptight when the hinge starts to fail.

Whats the difference? (2, Insightful)

Waveguide04 (811184) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358441)

They both suck. I loaded Win 8 in a VM yesterday and it is still the nightmare it was during the preview. Soon it will be be one icon that says "Do something (but most likely not what I want)" :)

Re:Whats the difference? (4, Insightful)

FunPika (1551249) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358495)

Windows RT doesn't even have the desktop mode and locks you into a walled garden of Windows Store apps.

Re:Whats the difference? (3, Informative)

dc29A (636871) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358523)

Windows RT doesn't even have the desktop mode and locks you into a walled garden of Windows Store apps.

It has a desktop mode.

Re:Whats the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43358585)

For a few office apps only so no that doesn't count.

Re:Whats the difference? (2)

dc29A (636871) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358619)

For a few office apps only so no that doesn't count.

Indeed [xda-developers.com] .

Re:Whats the difference? (2)

s.petry (762400) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358787)

Funny but that list is mostly emulators to connect to other servers so that you may actually be able to work (VNC clients, Putty, X emulation, etc..). A good chunk of those are *Nix utilities emulators like VIM.

I'm sorry, but in 2013 anyone touting Quake 2 as a port is laughable.

Re:Whats the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43360347)

OP said something about a product he had never used from a company he didn't like, and that something turned out to be very wrong and still got modded to +4 Insightful on /., why can't we all just admit that and continue on with the bash fest? Oh and btw...

Word, Excel, Powerpoint, OneNote, IE, notepad, Remote Desktop Client, Powershell, Windows Explorer, Snipping Tool all run natively, and a whole host of OSS runs with a very easy and straightforward jailbreak.

Also, while Windows RT is indeed a "locked walled garden," they hand the key to unlock it FOR FREE to anyone with a Hotmail account.

Re:Whats the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43362785)

So, from what you say you can run MS Office and Outlook from windows RT?

Re:Whats the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43362305)

That list applies for jailbroken devices.

Re:Whats the difference? (2)

DavidD_CA (750156) | about a year and a half ago | (#43360373)

Windows RT indeed has a desktop.

It has Windows Explorer.

It has Internet Explorer.

It has Control Panel.

It has Microsoft Office 2013.

And they're all so close to the Windows 8 versions that if I showed them to you, you'd think I was using a Windows 8 (non-RT) device.

Quit spreading lies.

Re:Whats the difference? (2)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about a year and a half ago | (#43362403)

Unless you want crazy 'enterprise' features like "Office Macro support" or "Domain Authentication"....

Re:Whats the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43365031)

Unless you want crazy 'enterprise' features like "Office Macro support" or "Domain Authentication"....

Yes, Windows RT isn't aimed at that market...obviously.

Re:Whats the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43365371)

It's bland/corporate in appearance and not much fun to use, so it's clearly not aimed at the home market either.

So who's it for?

Re:Whats the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43366415)

It's bland/corporate in appearance and not much fun to use, so it's clearly not aimed at the home market either.

ipad and just about every android tablet are the same, so clearly they are not aimed at the home market either i guess.

Re:Whats the difference? (0)

DavidD_CA (750156) | about a year and a half ago | (#43366015)

Obviously there are differences and RT isn't for everyone.

Does that justify spreading lies about it on Slashdot? Come on. I realize it's cool to bash Microsoft here, but this is a bit much.

Re:Whats the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43365015)

Windows RT doesn't even have the desktop mode and locks you into a walled garden of Windows Store apps.

Yeah the success of the ipad and iphone has proven that people really hate that. Then again if it actually is such a bad thing it will drive people to more open platforms.

Re:Whats the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43365383)

Android Market Share Dominates iOS Once Again In U.S.

The last time Kantar World Panel released its smartphone platform market share report, iOS had been announced the winner by an extremely slight margin as it had a 48.1 percent market share, while Android’s market share sat around 46.7 percent. Today, Kantar World Panel has come out with a new report of smartphone market shares over the past three months, and it looks as though iOS’ slight lead in their last report didn’t last.

In Kantar’s latest report, Android has once again taken the lead in the smartphone market share wars with a lead of 51 percent, while Apple’s market share dropped to 43 percent.

Re:Whats the difference? (1)

gewalker (57809) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358519)

Maybe MS can upgrade The Button into Do what I Want in a service pack. Maybe the horse can learn to sing.

Re:Whats the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43359321)

Funny. I run win8 on my desktop and with ClassicShell I'm using a standard windows desktop. All my programs work and the system hasn't bluescreened once. A program *may* terminate, but it's not a critical program. Just things like a game or whatever.

In fact, steam works wonderfully.

So I wonder what in the 9 levels of hell you're doing to make it run so badly.

Re:Whats the difference? (1)

yurtinus (1590157) | about a year and a half ago | (#43359523)

So I wonder what in the 9 levels of hell you're doing to make it run so badly.

I think he made the terrible mistake of not installing a custom shell right off the bat. The gall of some people...

Re:Whats the difference? (2)

Stormthirst (66538) | about a year and a half ago | (#43359851)

This is why I'm not touching Win 8 with a barge pole. The OS should work out of the box without me having to install additional add ons just to get it to behave in a comparatively sane way.

Re:Whats the difference? (1)

Patch86 (1465427) | about a year and a half ago | (#43361445)

The difference is that you can't install any legacy or mainstream software on the RT version, and what you can install all has to come through the Microsoft "App Store"- so no more downloading random bits of software from anywhere you like on the internet.

Both of those things suck quite a bit on their own without even needing to invoke the horridness of Metro. Yes it's comparable with the experience on an iPad I suppose, but certainly not what someone would expect if they were buying what they thought was normal "Windows".

Re:Whats the difference? (4, Interesting)

hairyfeet (841228) | about a year and a half ago | (#43363725)

Why is he labeled troll? I mean seriously who doesn't know that Windows 8 sucks? Its the first MSFT OS since WinME I won't allow in my shop and I'm making as much wiping it for Win 7 as I did wiping Vista for XP which was quite a lot.

And please do NOT give us that "Oh its just 7 with a start screen" bullshit because that is what it is, bullshit. I'd love nothing more than to talk to some of the internal devs of Win 8 because i truly believe that "refresh your PC" was NOT put in there to help users but because they knew there was serious flaws they couldn't fix before RTM. I haven't had to reinstall a single Windows 7 system that the user hadn't gotten infected, with Win 8 I've probably made a good $800 in the past couple of months from folks bringing their laptops in for me to do just that with Win 8 as it shits itself a LOT.

Frankly the confusion over Win 8 VS Win RT is just the stinky tip of a shit iceberg, the whole damned thing is just a mess. Oh and "keyboard commanders" don't bother replying, you are full of crap and here is a study proving it [bell-labs.com] . The simple fact is when you HAVE to be a keyboard commander and memorize a shitload of keyboard commands on an OS that MSFT designed for keyboard-less touch tablets? Something has gone horribly horribly WRONG.

Lets cut through the bull, Win 8 and WinRT is gonna be on every "worst of" list come Dec and the fact that even the fricking retailers don't know the difference should just show how badly thought out the whole thing was. I only hope that after ballmer shits out "Windows Blue" and the board sees its just as fucking stupid and pointless as Win 8 (you are focusing on touch, when more than 98% of the PCs DO NOT HAVE TOUCH and the OEMs are saying "We can't sell the touchscreens as nobody wants 'em" and you don't see that as a problem? Really?) they will punt kick his fat sweaty ass like a 40 yard field return and bring somebody in there with a functioning brain...fuck put ME in charge and I'll double the numbers in 2 years or you won't owe me a dime!

Spin off mobile, make Metro OPTIONAL on systems that aren't ARM and focus on a "it must be simple and work no matter what" mantra, oh and toss the mess that is Win 8, build the optional metro on the much more solid Win 7, and add services that will allow you to monetize those that stick with previous builds. hell I can think of two just off the top of my head, make deals with the media companies to make any laptop with an HDMI out and Windows Media Center into a media powerhouse and use the MSFT servers to allow home users and SMBs with a thumbstick remotely access their PCs from anywhere.

But any other corp would look at the facts, Win 8 bombed, WinRT bombed, numbers falling, users not even able to shut the damned thing down [zdnet.com] without knowing shit they have no reason to know, and see the whole direction is a failure. Instead we get what we see in TFA, where even the retailers don't know WTF you are selling or the differences between the models. What a fucking mess.

Re:Whats the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43365051)

And please do NOT give us that "Oh its just 7 with a start screen" bullshit because that is what it is, bullshit.

Just because you can't refute it doesn't make it bullshit. Outside of the startscreen what is it that you're having so much difficulty with in 8 compared to 7?

Re:Whats the difference? (1)

Waveguide04 (811184) | about a year and a half ago | (#43365297)

gee, I don't know, maybe because its really hard to figure out how to open a network Share, and click on an installer for say Visio or Office, or how to shut down or how . Its being made an OS for the people who don't know and don't care about how the machine works, which is fine in that regard, BUT I don't want it, I do know and I do care.

Re:Whats the difference? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43366049)

gee, I don't know, maybe because its really hard to figure out how to open a network Share and click on an installer for say Visio or Office

youre having difficulty in doing that?

or how to shut down

yeah shutdown was part of the startmenu and is now a part of the startscreen.

or how .

or how what? ran out of things when putting that post together i see.

Its being made an OS for the people who don't know and don't care about how the machine works

firstly that is most people. and secondly how are your problems with it any demonstration of that?

Re:Whats the difference? (1)

Waveguide04 (811184) | about a year and a half ago | (#43365275)

Thanks, you put it better than I could. From jump street its hard to use, both. From a useability perspective why should I have UI that supposed to me my life easier harder to use to find simple stuff like How do I install a program like Symantic Endpoint Protection? ok I find out how and run the installer and it blows up. nope. not installed. Can't find the shutdown method either. (only took 2 minutes to find both on Google on my other machine to find which was easy to do, not a chore) No command line at all? Seriously I might be an old fogie but I started with VIC20s and then CPM and then Apple DOS then Unix of various flavors and all the Windows iterations. Starting with the beta of the original Windows then WFW, NY then the rest. Compared to ME, Windows 8 is the same train wreck and RT is the same. Yes, I have an iPad and yes I am stuck to the app store unless I JB it, however I rarely find the need to do so. There are apps, they are easy to load, they work well.vNot being an Apple fanboy but the fact is it just works. I expect a command line on my daily PC. Sometimes I need it, and find / -name 'thisfile' is really helpful or God forbid I need to use sed or awk or perl. And I can do those on my tablet, not MS doesnt want me to be able to do it on with their OSs? seriously? Its an OS for the other people who just run Word or Excel and email. Period.

Re:Whats the difference? (1)

exomondo (1725132) | about a year and a half ago | (#43366081)

No command line at all?

Seems the same as Win 7 to me: win key + 'cmd' + enter. cmd.exe is where it always was on Win 7.

Re:Whats the difference? (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | about a year and a half ago | (#43376939)

Except I can walk over and yank the keyboard out of your Win 7 machine and you won't have ANY problems, without CLI and keyboard commands (which is ironic when all MSFT has been pushing is touchscreen tablets) you'll find Windows 8 will have you bashing your head against the wall just trying to find basic tasks.

Its not about learning new UIs, even guys that have no problem picking up the weirder Linux DEs will have trouble with Win 8 because there is NO context or explanations, it doesn't follow ANY UI conventions AT ALL (shutdown is now hidden under SETTINGS, really? I'm not trying to tweak the thing, just shut down) and finally they are pushing the hell out of their "great new touch support" when 1.-Less than 2% of all the PCs on the planet have touch support 2.- The OEMs have already pointed out nobody is buying touchscreen computers so its not only for PCs that nobody has but doesn't WANT in the first place!

Re:Whats the difference? (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | about a year and a half ago | (#43376893)

Wanna know what pisses ME off? These apologists and keyboard commanders keep making excuses yet when i pointed out how stupid the design is, like putting shutdown on the settings screen on a VERY heavily geek site what did I get? "Oh is THAT how you get to shut down?" because frankly most of them were just doing random shit, one would log off to get the shutdown built into the log in, another was just holding the power button because if he didn't his laptop went into sleep mode...this is a site filled with fucking geeks and if THEY can't figure out the most basic shit like shutdown without just throwing crap and hoping something sticks? Then WTF chance you think Bob the builder or Sally secretary are gonna have figuring this shit out?

Just watch Win 8 the animated evaluation [youtube.com] to see what I mean, if you have to have a Win 7 PC to Google how to shut down the apps in win 8? Something has gone horribly WRONG. made all the worse by the keyboard commanders trying to cover for an OS made for TABLETS by giving lists of commands..I mean can't anybody smell the irony? Windows 8 is handlebars on a pickup truck, its taking something that made sense in a different form factor being jammed into something it doesn't belong in the cynical belief that they can force people to "get used to it" and buy their overpriced iPad ripoff. Instead what you get is lost users, confusing and context free UI design...its a clusterfuck, no way around it.

Re:Whats the difference? (1, Troll)

Waveguide04 (811184) | about a year and a half ago | (#43365165)

You can mod me to Troll all you want, but the fact is, they still suck, both of them. Forcing someone to use either should be considered torture and therefore disallowed by the Geneva conventions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions [wikipedia.org]

RT Linux (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43358469)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_linux

Re:RT Linux (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358535)

Linux has the same confusion. Ubuntu to Android, all labeled as Linux.

Re:RT Linux (0, Flamebait)

marcello_dl (667940) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358611)

Linux has the same confusion. Ubuntu to Android, all labeled as Linux.

No confusion whatsoever, one is GNU/Linux, the other barely Linux.

Stallman was right AGAIN.

Re:RT Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43358821)

Linux has the same confusion. Ubuntu to Android, all labeled as Linux.

I'm assuming that you simply accidentally forgot to link to some point at which a major retailer was selling an Android phone as "Linux", or some point at which any major phone manufacturer is using the word "Linux" to describe their Android phones, or any point other than development documentation where Google is conflating "Android" with "Linux"?

I mean, I made this assumption under what I consider to be very reasonable circumstances, in that you made a bold statement like you did, one that can, in fact, be easily backed up with even the most basic of evidence. I would be very disappointed if you failed to do so and made me look a bit foolish for putting such trust in you.

Window RT (5, Funny)

Andrio (2580551) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358527)

In an effort to avoid confusion, MS should consider renaming it to "Window RT"

Re:Window RT (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43358621)

I blame the conversion from Imperial to Metric.

Re:Window RT (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about a year and a half ago | (#43359787)

I remember Windows RG [deanliou.com] being, Really Good.

Re:Window RT (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43364027)

May be Window RAT is a better fit?

No problems with Norton Mobile Security (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43358533)

I suspect Norton Mobile Security will not perform any worse on RT or 8 as it does on iOS or Android.

Re:No problems with Norton Mobile Security (1)

Zaiff Urgulbunger (591514) | about a year and a half ago | (#43361055)

I suspect Norton Mobile Security will not perform any worse on RT or 8 as it does on iOS or Android.

Arguably, it'd perform better since there'd be no slow down!

Seriously... (2)

doob (103898) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358555)

Who didn't see this coming? Hands up, anyone? No?

UK retailer retarded, film at 11. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43358569)

This is news?

Re:UK retailer retarded, film at 11. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43358691)

They momentarily ran out of "US retailer/manufacturer is evil" stories.

Re:UK retailer retarded, film at 11. (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about a year and a half ago | (#43359141)

Argos is a general household good retailer, not a tech specialist. They sell just about everything - furniture, toys, kitchenware, appliances.

Re:UK retailer retarded, film at 11. (2)

icebike (68054) | about a year and a half ago | (#43360355)

This is news?

The box clearly states what device it is.
The device clearly states what it is.

A consumer that can't/won't read the box probably has no need for a specific model.
All they likely want is web and email and games.

People who know what they want usually read the box at least.

Re:UK retailer retarded, film at 11. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43362275)

The problem is that Argos is a catalogue shop: there are no boxes, you look at the catalogue or website and order straight out of that. You sit around and wait a few minutes for the goods to be picked out of the small warehouse at the back, and then you leave with your goods. You don't see the box until you've paid for it and left.

Re:UK retailer retarded, film at 11. (1)

icebike (68054) | about a year and a half ago | (#43362703)

You sit around and wait a few minutes for the goods to be picked out of the small warehouse at the back, and then you leave with your goods. You don't see the box until you've paid for it and left.

Admittedly I've never been to Argos.
So its not mail order, right?
You go there, look at a catalog or screen, then they HAND IT TO YOU, and you leave WITHOUT checking?
Seriously, who does that for something costing this much?

Really? (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358589)

So big box retailers aren't good places to go for computer advice?

I'd be shocked if I haven't heard so many blatant falsehoods coming out of the mouths of people in these stores -- they're often clueless about the products, and more worried about up-selling you to Monster Cable or something.

Re:Really? (0)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358629)

Reality doesn't seem to be a strong suite of at least some Britons. Like the Prime Minister [telegraph.co.uk] .

Re:Really? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43358747)

Reality doesn't seem to be a strong suite of at least some Britons. Like the Prime Minister.

That's hardly limited [project-syndicate.org] to [gulfnews.com] Brits [atlantablackstar.com] .

Being able to filter reality in favor of your own beliefs seems to be required to be a politician of any stripe.

Modern political discourse is about deciding you are in possession of infallible truth, and then never listening to opposing view points again, and generally acting like a douchebag towards anybody who disagrees with you -- so much so that it devolves into screeching monkeys flinging feces at one another.

Re:Really? (1)

Aardpig (622459) | about a year and a half ago | (#43360891)

I think you meant suit. A strong suite would be a sofa made from purest diamondium.

Re:Really? (1)

RaceProUK (1137575) | about a year and a half ago | (#43367199)

I think you meant suit. A strong suite would be a sofa made from purest diamondium.

Pah! My diamondillium will beat your diamondium any day!

Re:Really? (2)

nukenerd (172703) | about a year and a half ago | (#43360599)

So big box retailers aren't good places to go for computer advice?

I'd be shocked if I haven't heard so many blatant falsehoods coming out of the mouths of people in these stores

I don't think you know Argos (in the UK anyway). They cannot be accused of giving advice because basically they do not say anything about what they sell.

You go in, choose an item from the catalogue at one of the booths, enter its number into a terminal, put in your credit card to pay, then wait 5-10 minutes until your item comes up on a screen as ready for collection. You then go to a counter and someone (this is the only human contact) who knows absolutely nothing about what is in the box, and makes no pretence of doing so, hands it over a bare counter and gets you to sign a receipt. If you were to ask this person a question they would take your item straight back and move to dispensing the next customer's box.

Re:Really? (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#43361057)

Wow. No, I have never encountered that form of retail, and I don't think I'd be inclined to unless they're a lot cheaper than anywhere else and I knew exactly what I was buying.

For that kind of service, I'd just order on-line.

MSFT should have made the OS look different (1)

schlachter (862210) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358687)

MSFT should have made the OS look different enough that there wouldn't be this confusion on the tablet side and rejection on the desktop side.

For Example... (4, Insightful)

denmarkw00t (892627) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358765)

Argos, for example, recommends Norton Mobile Security as an add-on for its mis-labelled Windows 8 machine, despite that product only working on Android and iOS

The mislabeling of the Windows machine has nothing to do with this "example" of how the mislabeling is a problem. If it only runs on Android and iOS, the RT/8 label makes no difference as the software doesn't run on anything that says "Windows" in the name.

I'd love to jump on the bandwagon of merchant-bashing since they don't know an RT from their asshole, but that's a tough sell when the article lambasting them makes examples that don't benefit their case at all, but instead make the argument that whoever wrote this can't grasp the idea of simple examples any more than UK retailers can grasp that RT and 8 are different operating systems/

Re:For Example... (2)

jonbryce (703250) | about a year and a half ago | (#43359231)

The point is that there are two problems with Argos's listing for that Samsung slab.

1. The describe it as running Windows 8, when it runs Windows RT. People will buy it expecting to be able to run normal Windows software on it, and will be disappointed.
2. They encourage people to buy Norton Mobile Security with it. That program won't install on either Windows RT or Windows 8. They claim it will work on Android and iOS. I struggle to understand how it will install on a non-jailbroken iDevice, or how it can be anything more than a placebo with side-effects on either platform.

Re:For Example... (4, Insightful)

0123456 (636235) | about a year and a half ago | (#43359355)

Maybe Microsoft shouldn't have called it 'Windows', then people wouldn't have expected it to run Windows software.

Do you really think they wouldn't have the same problem if it said 'Windows RT' instead of 'Windows 8'? How many non-tech users do you know who have any idea that a computer running 'Windows' might not run Windows programs?

Re:For Example... (1)

yurtinus (1590157) | about a year and a half ago | (#43359689)

The name isn't the problem. There wasn't significant confusion between the Windows CE and 95/98 or Windows Mobile and XP/7. The problem now is the blurring of lines in the hardware and the user interface. You have 10" tablets with a UI that looks and feels exactly like the desktop UI (only... y'know, useable 'cause it's hard to "swipe" with a mouse). Of course people are going to assume you can use the same software on both.

God I hate Metro...

Re:For Example... (1)

0123456 (636235) | about a year and a half ago | (#43359975)

The name isn't the problem. There wasn't significant confusion between the Windows CE and 95/98 or Windows Mobile and XP/7.

That's because one ran on a desktop and one ran on a phone, and no-one in their right mind wanted a phone that ran Windows.

Now you have two tablets running 'Windows', yet only one actually runs Windows programs.

Re:For Example... (2)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about a year and a half ago | (#43360581)

There wasn't significant confusion between the Windows CE and 95/98 or Windows Mobile and XP/7.

Well, that was primarily because nobody *used* Windows CE or Windows Mobile.

Re:For Example... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43362029)

people used CE, it was far better than palm or the other alternatives. The problem now is users are idiots and you can't assume they know the difference of anything.

Re:For Example... (1)

RaceProUK (1137575) | about a year and a half ago | (#43367203)

There wasn't significant confusion between the Windows CE and 95/98 or Windows Mobile and XP/7.

Well, that was primarily because nobody *used* Windows CE or Windows Mobile.

Acer did, for sat-navs. Others probably did too.

Re:For Example... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43362523)

The name is the problem. Next.

Re:For Example... (1)

msobkow (48369) | about a year and a half ago | (#43365253)

Funny. Calling it "Windows" wasn't a problem when they supported CPUs other than the Intel instruction set in years gone by.

But then again, those versions of Windows were marketted at Engineers, not the general public.

Re:For Example... (1)

denmarkw00t (892627) | about a year and a half ago | (#43359385)

I understand the point they were trying to make, just pointing out that their example itself was a mistake - an improper example of the improper labeling done by the retailer. You mentioned that the slab they are selling Norton Mobile Security with fell prey to this 8/RT mislabeling. That's what the point of the headline and summary are until you get to the whole iOS/Android bit - bringing that in doesn't sell the point of mislabeling, but it does make the retailer appear doubly idiotic.

Re:For Example... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43359411)

The problem though is that they're attributing #2 to the confusion over the names, which isn't the case.

Re:For Example... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43361197)

The point is that there are two problems with Argos's listing for that Samsung slab.

1. The describe it as running Windows 8, when it runs Windows RT. People will buy it expecting to be able to run normal Windows software on it, and will be disappointed.
2. They encourage people to buy Norton Mobile Security with it. That program won't install on either Windows RT or Windows 8. They claim it will work on Android and iOS. I struggle to understand how it will install on a non-jailbroken iDevice, or how it can be anything more than a placebo with side-effects on either platform.

Do people here know what Argos is? They could just as well have labeled a Nexus 7 an iPad.

Re:For Example... (1)

jonbryce (703250) | about a year and a half ago | (#43361513)

People from the UK and Ireland will certainly know what Argos is. For everyone else, you can order various things from a catalogue, either in-store or online, visit the store, and the stuff gets sent from the warehouse to the front desk by conveyor belt for you to pick up. They claim they sell more iPads than anyone else in the UK, including Apple.

DENTAL WORK ?? BRITS NEED MENTAL WORK !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43358785)

If you can give the Brits one thing it is the ability to do it wrong !!

Blame Microsoft (5, Interesting)

onyxruby (118189) | about a year and a half ago | (#43358917)

They want a similar look and feel to get people to start thinking of windows as being the same thing regardless of platform. They desperately want to embrace Apple's app store market, get rid of legacy software and get people to stop thinking of windows as only being for 'computers'.

The means to achieve this end is to make the different versions of windows look and feel the same to the 'average' person on the street - not the tech types. The result is that you have devices that for all intents and purposes look just like actual Windows 8 devices. The net result is that the store, which has average people and not technical people working in it, got confused.

It's a little bit like having two display cases of oranges, both look like oranges, both feel like oranges and both are labeled 'orange'. It's only if you pay careful attention, /and/ know enough to know better that you realize the difference between "Orange 8" and "Orange RT". The lay person doesn't pay that much attention or know enough to know better and Microsoft damn well knows it.

Re:Blame Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43359683)

Try grapefruit vs orange.

Re:Blame Microsoft (4, Informative)

onyxruby (118189) | about a year and a half ago | (#43359781)

Here is a side by side of the two versions of the Surface [blogspot.com] I found with a quick Google search. Without reading the descriptions can you tell which one is which simply by looking at them? There are differences, and if you know what to look for you can tell them apart. However for the lay person who plays with one they simply aren't going to do so.

Re:Blame Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43359871)

>get people to stop thinking of windows as only being for 'computers'.

Of course it's only for computers... what am I going to do, install Windows on a loaf of bread? Use it to fertilize my lawn? Vacation in it?

Re:Blame Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43362549)

The problem comes when you buy an Orange RT, take it home, peel it, and try a slice... only to find out that it tastes more like an apple, and half of the slices aren't actually edible. And any utensils you want to use while eating it have to come from a Microsoft Cutlery Store.

but the EU and others will not like the app store (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43363133)

but the EU and others will not like the app store lock in and app store censorship

Re:but the EU and others will not like the app sto (1)

RaceProUK (1137575) | about a year and a half ago | (#43367213)

but the EU and others will not like the app store lock in and app store censorship

Which would explain why they've slammed Apple (whose tablet marketshare is many times that of MS) for doing just that.

Oh, wait...

Windows 8 is ok (0)

SoldierII (2785237) | about a year and a half ago | (#43359023)

Using Windows 8 for few months now and it is ok. I do not like the extra steps to get to places and the goofy live tile screen and missing start. But the rest of it is good in my opinion.

Like many have suggested that the "Metro" should have on/off switch, since it really has no use for desktop use.

Re:Windows 8 is ok (1)

roc97007 (608802) | about a year and a half ago | (#43359619)

So, in other words, you don't like any of the things that make Windows 8 different from Windows 7. And I would agree with that.

Re:Windows 8 is ok (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43360199)

I like the new task manager. Once you install the free app Classic Shell, Windows 8 becomes an improved Windows 7 rather than a marketing platform for Modern apps.

Re:Windows 8 is ok (1)

roc97007 (608802) | about a year and a half ago | (#43360401)

I like the new task manager. Once you install the free app Classic Shell, Windows 8 becomes an improved Windows 7 rather than a marketing platform for Modern apps.

Yeah, you know, I'm going to have to try that, in order to preserve intellectual honesty. I have a touchscreen laptop running Win8 pro that I'm looking to give away, as Win8 does nothing for me and it's too much trouble to reimage it with Win7. (Besides, the touch screen is pretty much worthless in Win7 anyway.) But before I do that, I need to install Classic Shell and reevaluate, or lose the right to bitch about it.

Re:Windows 8 is ok (1)

DavidD_CA (750156) | about a year and a half ago | (#43360453)

If you can tell me a few of the "extra steps" you're taking in Windows 8, I'll be happy to suggest keyboard or mouse shortcuts that will make you happy.

Stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43359073)

This will not be deliberate.
This is normally down to employing people who just plain don't know the difference themselves.

.... and nothing of value was lost? (0)

H0p313ss (811249) | about a year and a half ago | (#43359515)

Just saying.

Re:.... and nothing of value was lost? (0)

roc97007 (608802) | about a year and a half ago | (#43359631)

It just adds to the confusion, making 8 even more of a disaster than it already was.

Re:.... and nothing of value was lost? (1)

Anon, Not Coward D (2797805) | about a year and a half ago | (#43360639)

It just adds to the confusion, making 8 even more of a disaster than it already was.

So it's a win :)

Open the desktop up to third party developers (1)

yuhong (1378501) | about a year and a half ago | (#43359561)

Personally, I'd want to open the desktop to third party developers and just call it Win8 for ARM, just like what NT for Alpha was called.

When will Microsoft recognize this failure (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43360397)

I happen to like Windows 8 on the surface, but it is absurd that a premium tablet does not support gestures.

Only UK? (1)

garyoa1 (2067072) | about a year and a half ago | (#43360413)

Newegg labeled their invoices for Win8, windows 8 RT. But according to them the RT was for the "ReTail" version. Created a lot of confusion.

Come on, Tesco! (2)

TechieRefugee (2105386) | about a year and a half ago | (#43360537)

That's like labling horse meat as hamburger! Oh wait...

Re:Come on, Tesco! (1)

Misagon (1135) | about a year and a half ago | (#43363205)

Over here, slices of pressed, boiled horse meat have been marketed as "Hamburger meat" for decades. Not really foul play, but anyway ...

Wat? (1)

Bearhouse (1034238) | about a year and a half ago | (#43360989)

Argos, for example, recommends Norton Mobile Security as an add-on for its mis-labelled Windows 8 machine, despite that product only working on Android and iOS

Well, some would say that being unable to install Norton is probably a good thing...

However a quick check (http://us.norton.com/norton-mobile-security) reveals that 'Mobile Security' for 'Android & iOS' rather unsurprisingly does not work on *any* version of Windows. Well, no shit.

Now, one could perhaps forgive the people at Argos making this kind of dumb mistake, but the Slashdot Eds?
Perhaps a car analogy next time, guys...

What amazes me is the price! (1)

Simon Brooke (45012) | about a year and a half ago | (#43361503)

These tablets are being offered for sale at £549 (US $834.32) [argos.co.uk] and £634 (US $963) [tesco.com] respectively. The Kindle Fire HD costs from £159 [amazon.co.uk] , the Google Nexus 10 costs from £319 [google.com] , while the Apple iPad costs from £399 [apple.com] . Even if there were nothing else wrong with Windows RT, trying to sell tablets for between 150% and 350% of the price of the comparable market leaders was never going to work.

As it is, if you actually want a Windows RT tablet for some reason, you've got to know that there's going to be a huge fire-sale of these things, and soon. Why would anyone pay those prices?

How do you tell the difference? (1)

belmet (2829603) | about a year and a half ago | (#43362505)

Win 8 and Win RT both look like the same fisher price toys to me...both clumsy and colourful.

Of course they do (1)

Pecisk (688001) | about a year and a half ago | (#43363713)

And it's not ups, or "my bad" - it's done deliberately, because people avoid Windows RT like a fire. Otherwise they would not simply sell.

picking at nits (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43364023)

...Built around applications the Windows RT operating system makes work and play easier, productive, social and completely reliable.” You’d have thought PC World might at least mention that your existing Windows software won’t work with it.

If the author is going to piss and moan about this after when the copy clearly states that it Windows RT applications, they might as well complain that it doesn't say that your existing Linux, Android, OS X or iOS software won't run on it either.

"Well gee, Timmy, it doesn't say that it won't run Gobe Productive [wikipedia.org] , so it should be safe to assume that it will."

Duh.

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