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The ATF Wants To Know Who Your Friends Are

timothy posted 1 year,17 days | from the do-you-have-any-friends-named-cody? dept.

Government 131

i_want_you_to_throw_ writes "You have a Friend Request from: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms... 'Confirm'? 'Not Now'? Seriously, the ATF won't try to friend you on Facebook. The ATF doesn't just want a huge database to reveal everything about you with a few keywords. It wants one that can find out who you know. According to a recent solicitation from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the bureau is looking to buy a 'massive online data repository system' for its Office of Strategic Intelligence and Information (OSII)."

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131 comments

Convenience Store (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374471)

In a truely free country the ATF would be a convenience store and not a government agency. In a free country you would be able to buy your alcohol, tobacco, firearms AND explosives from an ATF convenience store.

Re:Convenience Store (4, Funny)

djl4570 (801529) | 1 year,17 days | (#43374885)

Ahhh .. Deluxe Liquor and Sporting Goods in Roseville, Ca. How I miss thee. Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (Both rifles and handguns) in one convenient stop. Store closed years ago but the memories live on.

Re:Convenience Store (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43375075)

I can't fathom how painful their compliance inspections must have been.

Re:Convenience Store (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43375325)

The markets in Nevada sell handguns, liquor, and tobacco, no big deal.

Re:Convenience Store (1)

istartedi (132515) | 1 year,17 days | (#43376231)

Closest thing to this when I was growing up was K-mart. This was in Virginia, but *northern* Virginia DC suburbs, so not really hardcore Southern at all.

Anyway, guns and ammo were right there in the sporting goods section with the fishing poles and stuff. They were in glass cases and behind the counter. I'm pretty sure K-mart sold cigarettes and pipe tobacco back then. The alcohol was probably missing though. Definitely no liquor, since Virginia had that monopolized via ABC. As a boy, I wasn't very curious about alcohol so I don't remember if they had beer but maybe they did.

Re:Convenience Store (1)

Scarletdown (886459) | 1 year,17 days | (#43376805)

I think Wal-Mart sells all three. Haven't been inside a Wal-Mart in a while, but I will probably go ahead and shop there when I finally get around to getting myself a few boxes of Luger ammo.

Re:Convenience Store (1)

akboss (823334) | 1 year,16 days | (#43377647)

I think Wal-Mart sells all three. Haven't been inside a Wal-Mart in a while, but I will probably go ahead and shop there when I finally get around to getting myself a few boxes of Luger ammo.

Not if it is like the Wally Marts around here in Texas. Most have empty shelves when it comes to ammo. Last time I was there they had a selection of 300 win mag, a smaller selection of 30-30 and then some 12 gauge boxes. I order all my ammo by the case load.

Re:Convenience Store (2)

BenEnglishAtHome (449670) | 1 year,17 days | (#43376293)

In 1976, my father bought my first revolver for me at a combined liquor and gun store that I'm sure also sold tobacco products. It was located in a major shopping mall (Wonderland, iirc) in San Antonio, Texas. I mean, right out there where today you find Apple stores and Payless shoe stores, a combination liquor/gun store! It was great!

Kids today don't appreciate what they've lost.

Re:Convenience Store (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374957)

Microsoft, NYC Marketing Vast Surveillance System To Other Cities

The ATF can just buy that data from Microsoft.

Microsoft invested heavily in social media manipulation software so they could influence opinion on discussion sites and forums.

Being able to track so much community activity both on the web. and more directly via Windows telemetry, isn't just useful for their marketing sockpuppets. The information gathered on so many people becomes a product that can be sold as well. Now we see it's being traded, not just to other marketing organizations, but also to "law" enforcement types as well.

Re:Convenience Store (1)

digitalchinky (650880) | 1 year,17 days | (#43375533)

I suspect the ATF can no longer get the data for free from anyone these days - particularly so now that Facebook has to please its shareholders. The days of government being able to stick their own hardware in the corner of the data center for free are probably over. Now they have to pay (probably a lot more), just like everyone else.

Re:Convenience Store (1)

maz2331 (1104901) | 1 year,17 days | (#43375025)

There is a store about a mile away from me that sells coffee, premium cigars, and firearms. It's the strangest combo that I have ever seen in the Pittsburgh area. Now if they just sold beer, they could deal with all three main parts of the ATF.

Re:Convenience Store (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | 1 year,17 days | (#43377139)

Austin, Texas used to have a gun shop with a drive-thru fast food style window for ammunition.

"Do you want some fries with your HK 4.6×30mm's, Sir?"

Re:Convenience Store (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#43377533)

In a truly free country, the ATF would operate vending machines on basically every street corner. On the other hand, you'd be free to die at the hands of a drunk fool.

STUPID GOVERNMENT (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374499)

I can't believe this stupid ass government wants to ban guns and legalize FAGGOT MARRIAGE! OBAMA is a FAGGOT and KIM JONG UN is PISSED because OBAMA wouldn't ASSFUCK him instead of PLAYING GOLF.

Re:STUPID GOVERNMENT (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374519)

Who is the FUCKING FAGGOT that modded the parent down! YOU need ASSRAPED BY OBAMA!

Re: STUPID GOVERNMENT (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374575)

It was someone who isn't a homophobic bigot. You do nothing by posting those things other than making the rest of us gun-toting, bible-thumping Americans look bad. Please chose your words more carefully, nobody thinks any more of you because you can spell faggot correctly in all caps and do so at every opportunity.

Re: STUPID GOVERNMENT (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374609)

That's exactly what a FUCKING FAGGOT disguised as a BIBLE thumper would SAY! You're just a FAGGOT BIBLE ASSRAPER!

Re: STUPID GOVERNMENT (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374613)

Don't criticize (s) people for poor spelling if you can't spell or proofread your own posts. Or at least CHOOSE not to.

Re: STUPID GOVERNMENT (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374635)

LMAO, I start out trolling, some cunt mods me down, another cunt posts calling me a bigot and then someone else trolls for me. I love trolldot.

Re: STUPID GOVERNMENT (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#43377489)

You're prejudiced against nigger atheist faggots. No KY for your chalupa.

Re: STUPID GOVERNMENT (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374675)

FYI, OP probably isn't a homophobe either. Probably voted for Obama twice, but just a troll trying to make the "other side" look bad by frothing at the mouth.

Re: STUPID GOVERNMENT (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374713)

I'm not a homophobe and I only voted for that dickhead once (big mistake)! I just want to see America's moral values go further down the shithole than they already have.

Re: STUPID GOVERNMENT (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43375615)

How far down can America's morals go? Didn't we invade a nation, destroy it's economy and culture, kill tens of thousands of it's citizens (millions, if you buy into the left-leaning hype) all because the president didn't like the other country's president? Or - was it for the oil that ended up going to China?

Morals. There are no morals to choose from in Washington.

Re: STUPID GOVERNMENT (0)

Zontar The Mindless (9002) | 1 year,17 days | (#43377105)

You forgot to mention that Americans do all this while they still can't be bothered to teach their kids how to spell or punctuate.

Re: STUPID GOVERNMENT (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43375517)

I don't see any homophobia (that is, fear of homosexuals) in that comment.

Re:STUPID GOVERNMENT (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374741)

You sound like you could use some poo pounding yourself.

who do I know? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374503)

How about the director of Homeland Security...

Is that good enough?

Re:who do I know? (1)

davester666 (731373) | 1 year,17 days | (#43376441)

Not to get off the watch list...

Anyway, I believe Facebook has a database they are willing to rent access to for a very reasonable fee. The ATF may also want to buy the MySpace database, but it's a few years out of date...

Why not just go with Palantir? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374583)

Palantir is the leader in this field, why not just go with them?
All the tools you need for swallowing up large ill-formed sources of information and dicing and slicing however you want.

Re:Why not just go with Palantir? (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | 1 year,17 days | (#43374913)

Palantir is the leader in this field, why not just go with them?

All the tools you need for swallowing up large ill-formed sources of information and dicing and slicing however you want.

Huh? Now Facebook is starting to make a bit more sense. Give them what they keep trying to get (access to everyone, everywhere, all the time) and you have what ATF (and the rest of the Government) are dying to get their claws on.

I didn't think that Zuckerman was smart enough to think this up all by his little self.

Looking for cliques in all of the places. (3, Informative)

girlinatrainingbra (2738457) | 1 year,17 days | (#43374607)

Are they looking for cliques in all of the wrong places? Or are they attempting to subvert the system by turning everyone into a suspect because of their "degree of association" to criminal elements, smugglers, and terrorists just because everyone is linked to everyone else?
.
So I guess that ATF just heard about cliques [wikipedia.org] and graph theory. Perhaps knowing the degree of bacon-ness would tell them that this approach to a friend-of-a-friend is useless. As everyone knows, the "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon [wikipedia.org] Conjecture" posits that every-one in filmdom is on a path of length at most 6 away from being in a film with Kevin Bacon (link to him yourself, if you want, he's less than 6 degrees away).
.
So if Baconicity holds true in all of life instead of just in the film industry graph, then any individual can be linked to a criminal within less than six steps. Oh-my-godzies, we're all linked to criminals!! We all have gang ties!! We're all affiliated with Terrorists!! That linkage list shows it!! It must be true!!! Lock us all up, for our own goods!
.
If that sounds ridiculous, that's because it is ridiculous. But that won't stop the government from claiming it to be true and useful and actually use it in courts of law. Shheeeeesh. It's like the old canard about "cocaine residue on money":
-- most paper currency in the USA has cocaine residue on it [snopes.com]
-- even national geographic Cocaine on Money: Drug Found on 90% of U.S. Bills [nationalgeographic.com] confirms this to be true

Yet the government often tried to try (yes, prosecute = to try a case) people for being drug couriers/smugglers/kingpins because the money found on their person had drug residue on it. Unfortunately, the penetrance of drug residue on money is so high that there is not a reliable way to link the person's drug use with the drugs found on the money. See statistics 101 to figure that out.

Re:Looking for cliques in all of the places. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374717)

So? You act as though one cannot interpret a scale between 0 and 6. Nor make any inferences from a whole fuckload of 1 valued links to known criminals, when combined with other circumstantial evidence.

Re:Looking for cliques in all of the places. (3, Interesting)

girlinatrainingbra (2738457) | 1 year,17 days | (#43374805)

"So?" you ask? Look at the links about drug residue on money, and look up how little science and statistics is behind the so-called "accuracy of identification with fingerprints". The point is that the government is very likely to use long-path lengths to indict/accuse/try/convict people even when there is no evidence.
.
I posit that they are using these scientifically useless approaches to flim-flam judges and grand-juries into rubber-stamping warrant requests based on these flimsy pretexts being their probable cause. I say this because this is exactly what they did for drug residue on money. This is exactly what they do when they claim that their drug-sniffing dogs have detected the scent of (ultimately) non-existent drugs. This abuse of process has occurred. And I say that this is subverting true science for the ability to cover their over-reaching for issues of probable cause when no probable cause exists
.
Armand Jean du Plessis said in his role as Cardinal Richelieu: âoeIf you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang himâ (look it up). This is what they are doing here. Trying to find dirt in everyone, so that when they want to get you, they've got a so-called valid "probable cause" for doing so. --- sez paranoid me. ;>)

Re:Looking for cliques in all of the places. (3, Informative)

anagama (611277) | 1 year,17 days | (#43374999)

This is what they are doing here. Trying to find dirt in everyone, so that when they want to get you, they've got a so-called valid "probable cause" for doing so. --- sez paranoid me. ;>)

Here, this book will help you feed that (rational) paranoia:
http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Youtoo/tabid/86/Default.aspx [threefeloniesaday.com]

Re:Looking for cliques in all of the places. (1)

girlinatrainingbra (2738457) | 1 year,17 days | (#43375265)

Wow! Thanks for that amazing link. Now I've got a few more real life examples to show to some of the nay-sayers around me in my life. It is sad that the paranoia is rational and valid.

Re:Looking for cliques in all of the places. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43377281)

Most of those are obvious breaches of a sane law system.

Re:Looking for cliques in all of the places. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43375463)

To the federal government we are all criminals.

Re:Looking for cliques in all of the places. (1)

jameshofo (1454841) | 1 year,17 days | (#43376155)

but your innocent until proven guilty, that is ... if your accused of a crime.

Re:Looking for cliques in all of the places. (2)

marcello_dl (667940) | 1 year,17 days | (#43375649)

In my grand unified theory of everything this move is a psychological operation. "Stay away from those firearm nuts, stay away from firearms" is the idea. Soft terrorism. Unsurprising. (Terror is useful for those who already have power, not for those who want to obtain it, see examples that range from the kings, the French revolution, the adverse effect of indiscriminate attacks on the public opinion).

The second reason: mass criminalize everybody first, then pick up the troublemakers and jail them as it suits you, the law is on your side. This is very handy and a symptom of failing democracy.

Fighting crime, not that I am an expert, should be to WEED OUT the innocents, not increase the database of suspects, that's increasing noise.
But even if I am wrong and you need the database, the best data is to be gathered at ISP level, FB and GOOG work on subsets. So why not asking them instead.

Some might believe removal of firearms is in the collective good, they might be right, but to me it is just the same old story of powerful interests looking to augment their power by reducing everybody else's. Nothing new under the sun.

Re:Looking for cliques in all of the places. (1)

Goody (23843) | 1 year,17 days | (#43376115)

So if Baconicity holds true in all of life instead of just in the film industry graph, then any individual can be linked to a criminal within less than six steps. Oh-my-godzies, we're all linked to criminals!! We all have gang ties!! We're all affiliated with Terrorists!! That linkage list shows it!! It must be true!!! Lock us all up, for our own goods!

Sure, everyone can be linked to some douchebag/terrorist/asshole in six degrees, but if you're linked to a douchebag/terrorist/asshole in one or two degrees, you're probably a douchebag/terrorist/asshole.

Re:Looking for cliques in all of the places. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#43377967)

Let's check your assertion...

Obama -> Bill Ayers (douchebag/terrorist/asshole)

OMG you're right!! ;-)

Keep your friends close (5, Insightful)

roman_mir (125474) | 1 year,17 days | (#43374641)

Keep your friends close but keep ATF closer.

AFAIK FB 'friends' in most cases are not exactly what one would consider to be a friend IRL. I mean if you have 1000 friends, what does that mean?

An old tale:

A young man decided to get married, he was busy and asked his father to call 50 people on a list. He said "these are my friends, can you call them and invite them for the wedding ceremony?" The father agreed.
On his wedding day the son confronted his father "I asked you to call all of my friends", "and so I did", "but there were 50 people on my list and I only see 15". "Son, I called all 50 people and told each one of them that you have a problem and you need help and they should meet with you in this exact location at this exact time, so don't worry, all your friends are here now".

Back to the story: of-course government wants to know everything about you, don't you understand, it's for the collective good.

FUcking dangerous fascism. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374655)

As it is right now, when the ATF gets a search warrant to put your name in Google, Google will only return relevant results specific to the charge. This database of fascist searches wants to return everything! Ridiculous! This "thing" will know who your friends are and who you've had contact with! Look fascist state-mongers, just because I put shit on the internet and then make it easily searchable on Facebook doesn't mean it's public. I have a right to privacy, you know. FUck you big government bitches.

No excuse me, I have to go upload photos of me doing something illegal to the internet. I made sure to mark it private so I'm sure it's unreachable by the ATF until this "right restrictor" comes online.

fast and the furious (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374671)

this is because the ATF wants to illegally sell guns to all your friends so they can kill people

New Proposal (5, Interesting)

cosm (1072588) | 1 year,17 days | (#43374693)

I propose an open-source decentralized big-data platform for tracking all politicians, their movements, who they talk to, where they've been, they're locations, their correspondence (that's public), their donations, criminal backgrounds, known associations, and everything about them in an easily searchable, index-able manner.

Who wants to work on this with me! Seriously people we could do this in a legal way and that would be something that COULD make a difference. Probably not but worth a try...

Re:New Proposal (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374795)

This is not a new concept. We used to have that in America. It was called the press, but now the people that are running the press are in bed with the politicians.

Re:New Proposal (1)

cosm (1072588) | 1 year,17 days | (#43375259)

This is not a new concept. We used to have that in America. It was called the press, but now the people that are running the press are in bed with the politicians.

Then let's track those fuckers too!

Re:New Proposal (1)

dbc (135354) | 1 year,17 days | (#43376315)

Brilliant! I'd contribute to that project. Put it up on a crowdfunding platform and before you can say "swipe my Visa" I'm there.

Remember when Facebook was private? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374737)

Remember when Facebook was private, before it started making your stuff public? And do you remember when your email was considered private?
And your messages? And Skype? And GPS location? And phone contact list?

Email flipped fast, with 6 month old email being claimed as warrant free public data! Yet Sarah Palin email is apparently super secret!

See the ATF can search public data and the more data is 'made' public by failing to enforce privacy laws the better. The problem here is data that is really private has been claimed as public, and nobody is there to enforce any privacy law because they've had their hands in the cookie jar.

Remember when financial data was private? That leaked offshore financial data the other day, where are all the USA politicians? Bankers? Koch brothers? Fund Managers? Rupert Murdochs? Are you seriously telling me none of those had their hands in the cookie jar? Yet where the data?

Terror Wins (3, Insightful)

b4upoo (166390) | 1 year,17 days | (#43374739)

The ATF wanting such a database is like terror turned inward. Are we really in such danger that we need all kinds of agencies studying the public? I think it is a bit much. And I am very aware that such information has been compiled, one way or another, since at least the 1950s..

Re: Terror Wins (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374875)

Yes, we are.

Red Scare v2.0 (2, Insightful)

l0ungeb0y (442022) | 1 year,17 days | (#43374761)

Seeing that our Government already did an end run around our First Amendment Rights to Freedom of Association in 1950 with the Red Scare under a Republican President, it only goes to follow that we now embrace the Democrat's Gun Scare under Obama.

IT. IS. WHAT. THE. PEOPLE. WANT. AFTER. ALL.

I mean, haven't we already seen a handful of news organisations and blogs outing local gun owners to shame the thousands of gun owners and invite them to be harassed, assaulted or worse? Already, we rightly expell kids from the school system for pointing a finger and saying "pew pewpew" and even dodgeball is facing bannination from the school ground for it's abject violence -- and you better bury those FPS like CoD in your backyard before "we" find them.

Why you ask? Why not? Why not going after anyone who's ever used or owned a gun?
After all, they must be bad people -- and if you know someone who owns a gun, you are probably a pretty bad person your self.

So choose your Facebook friends wisely, or you might have to suffer the "consequences".

Re:Red Scare v3? (1)

nicoleb_x (1571029) | 1 year,17 days | (#43374831)

Actually, this would be version 3, and again, it would start under a Democratic Party president, although I don't know why that matters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare [wikipedia.org]

Republican Congress (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43375215)

Surely the law making is Congress, the Republicans, and the laws being used is the Patriot Act, Republicans.

But, hey nice misdirect. Do you work for Fox?

The joke is on the ATF (3, Funny)

trout007 (975317) | 1 year,17 days | (#43374789)

I don't have friends.

Re:The joke is on the ATF (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43376149)

I can confirm, this person has no friends.

- Your Local ATF Agent

When has it gone too far? (3, Insightful)

Feyshtey (1523799) | 1 year,17 days | (#43374801)

When will the public finally decide that the US Govt has gone too far? Honestly I would have thought it'd been years ago. The left was going batshit crazy 6+ years ago about the imperialistic Bush administration, but apparently the new flavor of crazy this administration is pulling is all hunky dory.

Re:When has it gone too far? (2)

FooAtWFU (699187) | 1 year,17 days | (#43374903)

"apparently the new flavor of crazy this administration is pulling is all hunky dory."

Peter D. Feaver, a Duke University professor, theorizes:

Mr. Obama "believed the cartoon version of the Bush critique so that Bush wasn't just trying to make tough calls how to protect America in conditions of uncertainty, Bush actually was trying to grab power for nefarious purposes. "So even though what I, Obama, am doing resembles what Bush did, I'm doing it for other purposes," Mr. Feaver added.

-- The New York Times [nytimes.com]
(disclosure: Feaver is a partisan with ties to the Bush administration.)

Jennifer Granholm supports this notion:

"We trust the president," the former Michigan governor told the Times, "And if this was Bush, I think that we would all be more up in arms because we wouldn't trust that he would strike in a very targeted way and try to minimize damage rather than contain collateral damage."

-- The Guardian [guardian.co.uk]
(The British columnist here goes on to assert: "That many Democratic partisans and fervent Obama admirers are vapid, unprincipled hacks willing to justify anything and everything when embraced by Obama - including exactly that which they pretended to oppose under George W Bush - has also been clear for many years.")

Re:When has it gone too far? (3, Insightful)

Feyshtey (1523799) | 1 year,17 days | (#43374975)

So in summary;
The left theorizes that giving this President more power is not as harmfull as if it were Bush because this President is more responsible.

The problem is that the left hasnt the foresight to recognize that the American public is entirely capable of electing someone equally or exponentialy worse than Bush.

Re:When has it gone too far? (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43375501)

The problem is that the left hasnt the foresight to recognize that the American public is entirely capable of electing someone equally or exponentialy worse than Bush.

they don't need foresight, he's already in office.

Re:When has it gone too far? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43377223)

It's as simple as this....

1:) R
2:) D
3:) Fuck all this shit, give us someone good.

Re:When has it gone too far? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43375033)

The one good thing that is happening is that a lot of people who voted for Obama are starting to see that the emperor truly has no clothes:

His platform of peace and ending wars has turned into more wars. His economic recovery consists of an inflated stock market propped up by printing $3,000,000,000 a day and a "falling" unemployment number caused by 9,400,000 people leaving the work force since he took office and more each month. His promise of transparent government has turned into a total farce. He throws a bone to drug-rights or gay-rights activists just often enough to keep them strung along. He continues the wars on the first, fourth and fifth amendments that Bush started, and now he's added a war on the second.

Come January 20, 2017 so many people on the left are going to be absolutely fed up with him. Hopefully the people on the right will maintain their anger, direct it towards the new (R) president, and together they can be mad enough at the government to get something changed.

I mean really changed this time.

Not Obama "changed."

Re:When has it gone too far? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43375415)

That is a good thing. Hopefully enough people feel that way that he won't be reelected.

Re:When has it gone too far? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43375585)

rand paul 2016 ;)

Re:When has it gone too far? (1, Interesting)

The Master Control P (655590) | 1 year,17 days | (#43375955)

"His platform of peace and ending wars has turned into more wars."

Oh really? Please, yell me about all these wars that Obama's started based on lies that are now bleeding our treasury dry.

and a "falling" unemployment number caused by 9,400,000 people leaving the work force since he took office and more each month.

1. Ever heard of the baby boomers? They're starting to retire, so of course some people are leaving the labor force. 2. Turns out some people will give up when 30 years of GOP economic policy has left us staring down the abyss of Depression. Yet routinely since spring 2009, monthly job reports have come with a "jobs created but not enough due to people rejoining the labor force" label attached.

Re:When has it gone too far? (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | 1 year,16 days | (#43377837)

The problem with your logic is that the size of the population of the U.S. that is within the bounds of what is considered "working age" is larger today than it was when Obama took office. So, the number of people leaving the workforce cannot be explained by baby boomers retiring, since that does not represent enough people.

Re:When has it gone too far? (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | 1 year,16 days | (#43377841)

Oh, I forgot to mention relative to your "staring down the abyss of Depression" comment. Since WWII there have been multiple recessions, this is the first one where the number of jobs was not higher 4 years after the start of the recession than at the high point of jobs before the recession began. There are fewer Americans employed today than at the high point before the recession began, even though we have been in "recovery" for over 4 years.

People are very tribal and partisan right now (1)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | 1 year,17 days | (#43375739)

The lefties were mad at Bush not for what he was doing, but because he was from The Other Guys(tm). He was one of the other tribe, so what he was doing was bad, and wrong, and evil and all that shit. Some people really believed this to an extreme extent. There were people saying Bush had setup FEMA death camps, would declare martial law and stop the election, that kind of thing.

Well now their guy is in power. Hence you see the same shit from the righties. All of a sudden stuff that under Bush was "necessary for our safety" and "reasonable" they are all bent out of shape and screaming about. You look around, you hear the same FEMA camp shit about Obama.

That's part of the problem is that many people have a "good guy, bad guy" view on politics right now so when their guys are doing things, those things are ok because their guys are the "good guys". That means that people who oppose things at one point will support them later.

I hope I get a request from them! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43374829)

Let's face it: Alcohol, tobacco *and* firearms?

The ATF throws the best parties.

Re:I hope I get a request from them! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43375061)

No, dude. The best parties provide alcohol, drugs, and strippers.

Just sayin'

Re:I hope I get a request from them! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#43377433)

No, dude. The best parties provide alcohol, drugs, and naked women.

Just sayin'

TFTFY. :D

The ATF needs a slapdown (4, Insightful)

kawabago (551139) | 1 year,17 days | (#43374855)

Their goals are ridiculous in free country. A country isn't free if it's government knows what everyone is doing all the time. Besides that, why weren't they asking for this information 10 or 20 years ago? People had connections in the past but the government never sought to know everyone's. The only result of all this total information awareness so far is to find out the CIA Director was having an affair. Billions of dollars could be better spent on infrastructure.

Re:The ATF needs a slapdown (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43377025)

buhahahahahahaha

a "country isn't free" and it shouldn't be. Keeping a society together has its costs (be it financial, moral, or otherwise), and by bundling certain things those costs can be kept lower.

but no, it's more important to be 'free'. Free to be equal to a company. Free to be essentially cut out of society if you fail to be able to live by it's predatorial rules. Free to choose between effectivly 2 parties, both of which are out to keep this status quo. Free to be shot if you 'infringe on other people's liberty'
Free to believe -and be scared by- everything the media spits in your face.

Watch out, communist sandniggers are coming to take your religion away by putting it in mosques while wearing rags on their heads.. They might be gay too.

USA! USA! USA!

Friends? Facebook? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43375125)

I can count my friends on one hand and I don't have facebook. Only bandits, commies and women use Facebook.

Cody (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43375225)

I hired an artist. He used fake names. He said his name was Cody Rigby. I had to send him a computer (rig). Then, he said his name was Cody Smedly. (smelly code) I decided I would not credit him for his art. He made homo art.

Welcome to Slashdot (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43375253)

... now controlled by anti-government, bitcoin-obsessed, whackjobs.

Seriously, when did this site stop being about technology and geeky things and start being a libertarian shithole?

Did you hear about the new proposed law (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43375267)

where family members, clergy, and doctors can put a person's name on a "suspected of being dangerous" list which prevents them from buying a gun for a full year? And now a friends-list to extend the reach further. The government is getting ready to confiscate. Then they'll round up the educated people for "relocation". The uneducated will get to continue to live... as slaves.

My friends? (4, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | 1 year,17 days | (#43375613)

My friends are anyone who upholds the bill of rights. Sounds like that doesn't include anyone in the ATF.

-jcr

Re:My friends? (2)

dbc (135354) | 1 year,17 days | (#43376337)

Pretty much true.

Remember, the Bill of Rights was a response to criticisms of the Constitution found in the Anti-Federalist papers. Somehow, the term "anti-federalist" seems still to be right on target of you believe in the concepts of the BoR.

Hell, times are hard... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43376081)

Can't they just rent the NSA's?

Re:Hell, times are hard... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43377035)

Sorry, no can do. National security, you know.

Also Seems They're Shaking Bushes... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,17 days | (#43376787)

Raiding FPS Russia and others with 150 men, no warrant (to my knowledge), and leaving empty handed in an attempt to find "illegal" whatever, and really it's just to try to create another standoff so they can kill the owner of the firearms and decry on TV how evil guns are, and how we need to ban them. Obama is behind that...ATF is executive.

Now why would they want this? (0)

3seas (184403) | 1 year,16 days | (#43377415)

Add this to efforts to take away guns and more...
Kinda reminds me of this:
Just a quick refresher course 'lest we forget' what has happened to many "friends" of the Clintons.
1- James McDougal - Clintons convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr's investigation.
2 - Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown .. The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.
3 - Vince Foster - Former White House councilor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock's Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.
4 - Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown's skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors. The rest of the people on the plane also died. A few days later the air Traffic controller commited suicide.
5 - C. Victor Raiser, II - Raiser, a major player in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.
6 - Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock , September 1992. Described by Clinton as a "dear friend and trusted advisor".
7 - Ed Willey - Clinton fundraiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.
8 - Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton's gubernatorial security team in Little Rock .. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock Park's son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.
9 - James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a "Black Book" of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas
10 - James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater..
11 - Kathy Ferguson - Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.
12 - Bill Shelton - Arkansas State Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiancee.
13 - Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton's friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.
14 - Florence Martin - Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal, Mena, Arkansas, airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.
15 - Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.
16 - Paula Grober - Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.
17 - Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating MenaAirport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation.
18 - Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at MenaAirport with Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993, in his WashingtonDC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.
19 - Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington , Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guaranty scandal.
20 - Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised, nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.
21 - Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.
22 - Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton 's advisory council personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather and brother.
23 - Barry Seal - Drug running TWA pilot out of Mena Arkansas, death was no accident.
24 - Johnny Lawhorn, Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole.
25 - Stanley Huggins - Investigated Madison Guaranty. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.
26 - Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fundraiser died March 1, 1994, when his plane exploded.
27 - Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as "The boys on the track" case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, due to falling asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.

THE FOLLOWING PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES/HENRY CASE:
28 - Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, 7/88.
29 - Keith McMaskle - Died, stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988
30 - Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.
31 - Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.
32 - James Milan - Found decapitated. However, the Coroner ruled his death was due to natural causes".
33 - Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.
34 - Richard Winters - A suspect in the Ives/Henry deaths. He was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.

THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD
35 - Major William S. Barkley, Jr.
36 - Captain Scott J . Reynolds
37 - Sgt. Brian Hanley
38 - Sgt. Tim Sabel
39 - Major General William Robertson
40 - Col. William Densberger
41 - Col. Robert Kelly
42 - Spec. Gary Rhodes
43 - Steve Willis
44 - Robert Williams
45 - Conway LeBleu
46 - Todd McKeehan

Quite an impressive list!
The public must become aware of what happens to friends of the Clintons!

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