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Korea Tensions Lead To Delay Of Minuteman III Test Flight

timothy posted about a year and a half ago | from the austin-looks-around-nervously dept.

The Military 256

An anonymous reader writes "The U.S. plans on delaying 'the test of the Minuteman III intercontinental missile' that was scheduled for launching next week out of the Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. The reported reason is to prevent 'misperception or miscalculation' by North Korea. North Korea has warned foreign diplomats that 'they could not guarantee their safety from next Wednesday' onwards, but the warning has not caused any plans for evacuation of any embassies so far."

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Are You Kidding Me? (-1, Flamebait)

Trip6 (1184883) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383389)

That pimple on the ass country is actually making us change our military test plans? Puhhhlllease.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383413)

So all the lives that would be at risk in South Korea in case of a war mean less to you than a glorified firework?

Battered Wife Syndrome (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383687)

Mustn't stand up to the little belligerent freak, he might get violent if we set him off. Sure, we can beat him silly but he'll just take it out on the kids.

Re:Battered Wife Syndrome (1)

amiga3D (567632) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383809)

There are only two ways to handle a madman with nukes. Either kill him or try to placate him. Pick one.

Re:Battered Wife Syndrome (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383903)

I wouldn't settle for less than both.

Try to placate him... until you can kill him.

Re:Battered Wife Syndrome (1)

Redmancometh (2676319) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383921)

Fuck, I already used my mod points.

Re:Battered Wife Syndrome (0)

Luckyo (1726890) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383991)

And now you understand why NK leadership acts the way it does. Who wouldn't when faced with people who outnumber and outgun you hilariously, and want you dead very, very much.

Re:Battered Wife Syndrome (2, Insightful)

amiga3D (567632) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384177)

Really? Are you kidding? Nobody gives a shit about NK except maybe South Korea and China until Dear Leader starts acting like a madman threatening to blow his neighbors away. We want him dead because it's scary to have a lunatic with nukes. When it was just the US and the good ole USSR staring at each other we pretty much knew that neither side really wanted to pull the trigger, they had too much to lose. Now you've got this syphilitic little shit that may just be crazy enough to pull the trigger and he's jumping up and down talking about nuking people. Yes, we'd like him dead.

Re:Battered Wife Syndrome (1)

amiga3D (567632) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384145)

Too bad you posted anon. That's a plus 5 comeback if ever I saw one.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (5, Insightful)

rasmusbr (2186518) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383467)

I think that it's probably a move meant to give the North Koreans a chance to back down and declare 'victory' to their own people so that the crisis can end before things become unpredictable.

Even if the US wanted a war with North Korea this would not be the time. A war like that takes months of planning and logistics if it's going to go well. The US and South Korea could defeat North Korea over the next couple of weeks if necessary, but at what cost?

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (0, Troll)

hairyfish (1653411) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383483)

Fuck them. These monkeys need to be taught a lesson, and I'm not talking stupid Iraq/Afghanistan type lessons, more like Desert Storm. Go destroy every piece of infrastructure they have and then let them rot in their own fetid mess. Innocent people will die, but the alternative is for innocent people to die too, so better off on our terms and without the protracted occupation or losses on our side. Control the air and render their offensive capability useless and they cease to be a threat.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383503)

Yeah Fuck the Yanks. Go NK!

You do realise America is no longer an identity, it is a puppet regieme of Israel.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383549)

You seem to be under the impression that North Korea has any infrastructure that's worth destroying.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383675)

We did destroy the infrastructure of Afghanistan. It was a goat path and water well. It took all of like 5 minutes. That is part of why Bush went into Iraq, he need a bigger show like his daddy had with Desert Storm.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43384247)

You cannot bomb back into the stone age..what is still basically the stone age.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

kurt555gs (309278) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383891)

The "smart bombs" we would use to destroy their infrastructure cost 10 times that of their targets. There is no winning.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383565)

There was a time that would have been a good plan. That time was before the invention of radio. Try that today and every TV channel outside the US, and a few of those in, will be carrying endless footage of the hell-on-earth that results. Starvation, disease, warlords recruiting children as forced soldiers in their fight for control, and the US getting the blame for it all.

Destroying all military infrasturcture would almost work, but you only end up postponing the problem: Eventually they will rebuild, unless you're willing to re-bomb the country every couple of years, and even then they could continue their nuclear work in disguised locations* and set up an unconventional delivery mechanism like a nuke in a shipping container addressed to New York.

* Extra evil-points if they build a refinary underneath Glorious Leader's Orphanage, School and Homeless Kitten Shelter. Go on, bomb that...

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383729)

Destroying all military infrasturcture would almost work, but you only end up postponing the problem: Eventually they will rebuild

You're kind of forgetting about the South. They'd like the other half of their country back, you know, and without a military up North to get in the way they'd be more than happy to make the whole thing just plain Korea again.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (3, Interesting)

realityimpaired (1668397) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384119)

You're both forgetting about China, who might have a few things to say about a large scale US military operation on their border...

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (2, Insightful)

circletimessquare (444983) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384281)

which is the only reason north korea even exists

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383593)

American genocide, best day of my life.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383775)

Fuck them. These monkeys need to be taught a lesson, and I'm not talking stupid Iraq/Afghanistan type lessons, more like Desert Storm. Go destroy every piece of infrastructure they have and then let them rot in their own fetid mess. Innocent people will die, but the alternative is for innocent people to die too, so better off on our terms and without the protracted occupation or losses on our side. Control the air and render their offensive capability useless and they cease to be a threat.

And if China were to abide by the terms of its defensive treaty with North Korea, by militarily aiding North Korea, America could use its Death Star to blow-up planet China. What could possibly go wrong?

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (4, Insightful)

CAIMLAS (41445) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383485)

Yes, it would be much better to simply allow things to settle down and let the little tyrant continue the deathcamp conditions prevalent throughout NK.

Either that or we should let him have the first shot. Because that would be the responsible thing to do, right?

(Do we really want him firing off his dirty bombs into SK, Japan, or who knows where else? )

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383553)

There are political concerns. The impact on the world perception of the US, which is already getting a nasty reputation for unprovoked invasions of dubious justification following Afganistan and Iraq. Then there is the impact on the careers of politicians too - even though defeating NK's military would be a piece of cake, you'd still be left with a decade-long insurgency requiring expensive peacekeeping operations costing many billions of dollars in a time of financial crisis. Now is not a time anyone in the US government wants to be seen starting another war, but a defensive action is much easier to endure. So politically, it'd be far better if NK were to launch the first missile. The US can wait for it, can try to play the diplomatic game to secure allies, and can position forces in the area ready to leap into action at short notice... but they won't fire the first shot.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383603)

No this isn't like Iraq, I seriously doubt there'd be any insurgency since North and South Korea are culturally very similar, speak the same language, and are the same people basically. Once the usual postwar troublespots quiet down, it would be "free TVs for everyone", there aren't any major religious schisms or historical reasons for North and South to hate one another beyond the recent unpleasantness.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (5, Insightful)

r1348 (2567295) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383629)

You seem to underestimate 60+ years of uninterrupted regime propaganda.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383699)

The propaganda fell apart quickly enough in the Eastern European bloc and East Germany. I know it wasn't quite as severe as NK but I'd expect similar results.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

ScentCone (795499) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383943)

You seem to underestimate 60+ years of uninterrupted regime propaganda.

And you seem to underestimate the inertia of centuries of culture. And to really underestimate the power of getting some nutritious food and knowing that some of your family is no longer spending the rest of their miserable lives in one of NK's versions of a Stalinist death/labor camp.

SK would have to dig deep, just like West Germany did. But the long term benefits would be huge for them, financially, culturally, and morally. Just like it was for a re-unified Germany.

None of this will happen, of course. Because China doesn't want what amounts to a prosperous Germany right next door.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

femtobyte (710429) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384069)

And to really underestimate the power of getting some nutritious food and knowing that some of your family is no longer spending the rest of their miserable lives in one of NK's versions of a Stalinist death/labor camp.

History over the past half century shows that America isn't real good at this part. In all the countries we've worked to "liberate," from Vietnam to Iraq, we generally do so at immense cost to civilian architecture: what little they already had of agriculture, clean water, electricity, sanitation gets reduced to rubble; disease and starvation kill far more than our direct bombings. I doubt North Koreans will come to love us for food and freedom, because we've shown zero capability of actually improving food and freedom through war. If history is any guide at all, there will just be millions pushed over the line from severe malnutrition to starvation, and whatever goons we install as the new government will become notorious for sadistic crackdowns against dissent (keeping the same old death camps running, just with a new slew of occupants).

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (2)

thrich81 (1357561) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384185)

But the last whole century tells a different story. The rebulding of Europe and Japan after WWII went well in the areas which were under Allied control after the war, due largely to the Marshall Plan in Europe and US directed changes to governance in Japan. And S. Korea was in the same state as N. Korea at the end of armed hostilities in 1953 -- they have turned out rather well. Vietnam doesn't count in this analysis because the US lost that war and wasn't available to help rebuild. The Iraq fiasco to a large extent was due to incompetence in the Bush administration who ignored the analyses of the experts who told them how many troops, etc, would be required to maintain order after the fall of the government but didn't want to believe them.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

femtobyte (710429) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384265)

All right, so Vietnam "doesn't count" because we didn't win --- even though, if we had, we'd still have already destroyed nearly all their dams and irrigation systems, and doused the whole country in carcinogenic defoliants, so I can't see the outcome being a lot more rosy after that point.

But, just so you don't think Bush's bungling in Iraq is an isolated incident of failed US "helpfulness," why don't you read up on the history of a few more countries where we've "helped out," including Cambodia, East Timor, Chile, Iran, Guatemala, and Pakistan. Remember that the successful re-building in Europe/Japan took place with some American money, but under the guidance of the relatively socialist policies of the regions; empire building guided more by US-centric capitalist ideology (e.g. Thomas Friedman's Chicago School acolytes advising Pinochet) doesn't work out so well.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

realityimpaired (1668397) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384261)

None of this will happen, of course. Because China doesn't want what amounts to a prosperous Germany right next door.

Yes, they do. That would be huge for their trading prospects. What they don't want is the US military entanglement that comes with South Korea.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (4, Interesting)

thenextstevejobs (1586847) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384153)

You seem to underestimate 60+ years of uninterrupted regime propaganda.

+5 Insightful?

Let me tell you as someone living in Korea that there is zero question here about whether or not North Korea wants to blow Seoul. I'll give you a hint -- they wouldn't drop bombs on Seoul even if the US was nuking Pyongyang.

While the North has been a separate country for a long time at this point, the people on the two sides of the DMZ do not at all consider each other enemies. The rhetoric from the North about destroying the South is firmly directed at the South Korean government.

People have a racial unity here that you can probably not even imagine. Here's an attempt at an analogy. Would the Israelis bomb a city of 100% Jews?

The North considers the people in the South to be essentially captive by a traitorous government that's being dictated behind the scenes by the US and other foreign influences. They want to 'liberate' their relatives and their people, not bomb them into dust because they don't like what they consider to be a minority of them who are oppressing the rest.

I know the story about the artillery within range of Seoul makes a good scare piece, but there's zero chance they will be wantonly killing all the South Koreans just because it's technically a separate country.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

rasmusbr (2186518) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383695)

Well, I don't think Kim wants to die. The guy is barely 30.

If you really want to invade North Korea you first have to immobilize and disable their 1M+ strong army so you don't have to fight a tower defense-like battle against a virtually never ending onslaught of semi-fast moving troops. You don't want to give the North Koreans a chance to take the initiative and go on the offensive, because if they do the cost in lives and destruction on the southern side would increase by orders of magnitude. What you do want is for the North Koreans to get pinned down and carpet bombed to oblivion on the Northern side of the DMZ.

You also don't want to fight a war from a starting point where you have a mere 28.000 US troops on the ground and, presumably, not nearly enough ammo and bombs in storage on the peninsula to fight a massive war. It's a lot safer and cheaper to ship in ammo and bombs months before the war than to try to airlift them in tomorrow.

The humanitarian side of it would be difficult regardless of when the war started. China might have to invade from the north and set up refugee camps inside North Korea to prevent millions of refugees from spilling over the border. Now you have to take care to not bomb the Chinese soldiers inside North Korea.

If you want to destroy an oppressive and unfriendly government it would probably be easier to invade Iran now, before they get nukes. If you tie up your forces in North Korea you'll give the Iranians free reign to work on their nuclear program while you try to end the war in Korea. You may be able to defeat North Korea in weeks, but ending the war and pulling out could take years.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

gtall (79522) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384039)

Look at Okinawa, Iwo Jima, Saipan, etc. if you want to see the effect "carpet bombing" would have on the Norks' entrenched positions. The U.S. isn't going to carpet bomb anything.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (3, Interesting)

Zontar The Mindless (9002) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384179)

The humanitarian side of it would be difficult regardless of when the war started. China might have to invade from the north and set up refugee camps inside North Korea to prevent millions of refugees from spilling over the border. Now you have to take care to not bomb the Chinese soldiers inside North Korea.

Not too many people outside China seem to get this.

The Chinese would probably be just as glad as not to see Kim and his posse jet off to Tenerife or someplace and leave the place to the South (see DDR, dissolution of). The Chinese would no longer have to be bothered with propping up a régime that has become an embarrassment if not outright liability to them; they wouldn't have to deal with (yes, potentially millions of) North Korean refugees (if anything, they'd probably like to move back about 10 million ethnic Koreans who already live on the Chinese side); and the South would be kept occupied for the next 20 years or so rehabilitating the North, they don't have any islands we think ought to be ours--so sure, let the US continue to be their good friend. Whatever.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (5, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383513)

Even if the US wanted a war with North Korea this would not be the time. A war like that takes months of planning and logistics if it's going to go well. The US and South Korea could defeat North Korea over the next couple of weeks if necessary, but at what cost?

If the US wanted a war with North Korea, the pretext would be far more important than the planning and logistics. North Korea would be able to do terrible damage to South Korea regardless of timing, so it'd look a lot better if the US came charging to the rescue against a North Korea that has gone bat shit insane than if the US was building up an invasion force that would be seen as another act of US aggression and backing Kim Jong-Il into a corner where he might as well strike first with all he's got.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383657)

If the US wanted a war with North Korea, the pretext would be far more important than the planning and logistics. North Korea would be able to do terrible damage to South Korea regardless of timing, so it'd look a lot better if the US came charging to the rescue against a North Korea that has gone bat shit insane than if the US was building up an invasion force that would be seen as another act of US aggression and backing Kim Jong-Il into a corner where he might as well strike first with all he's got.

Wrong! The US need not build-up a military ground invasion force in South Korea. A twenty-four hour sustained bombing campaign with the biggest bomber force since World War II dropping nuclear warheads on Dear Leader's home and dropping conventional bombs on every military installation and all transportation routes leading to South Korea as well as communication and power-generation infrastructure. Place bounties on the heads of the North Korean Government and let the country purge itself of the shackles of Dear Leader. Declare North Korea, as a country, to be reunified with South Korea. If China gets uppity, bring all outsourced manufacturing back to Europe and the Americas under penalty of imprisonment and execution of any executive attempting to thwart the effort.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

gtall (79522) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384061)

And if the U.S. did nuke N. Korea, the U.S. would kill most S. Koreans and Japanese and a whole lot of Chinese. It would be a stupid option and no American president or Congress would ever agree to such a thing. And the U.S. Military would strenuously object as well, not to mention most S. Koreans and Japanese and whole lot of Chinese.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383613)

Even if the US wanted a war with North Korea this would not be the time. A war like that takes months of planning and logistics if it's going to go well. The US and South Korea could defeat North Korea over the next couple of weeks if necessary, but at what cost?

Poppy cock! The US could easily blast North Korea's entire missile systems bases into the next life while limiting the death toll to only those on these bases and launch sites. But North Korea has no oil so the US corporatists are not beating the war drums. The US reminds me of the Big Bad Wolf, always huffing and puffing but never blowing down the door. Meanwhile, the Three Pigs laugh gleefully as they eat at the trough whilst the other barnyard animals starve.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383655)

Poppy cock! The US could easily blast North Korea's entire missile systems bases into the next life while limiting the death toll to only those on these bases and launch sites.

Bullshit - even if you could destroy all the missile systems - it's irrelevant. South Korea is actually very close to North Korea (imagine hat), so missiles
are unnecessary. Do you have any idea how many artillery batteries are located within easy reach of Seoul? There are over 10 million people packed into
that city and it would get days of constant shelling before we could bomb them all. If actual war were to come, we would eventually "win" (and it probably won't
even be long and drawn out), but during that time an enormous number of innocent people would be killed - people that are our allies, you know who we are
supposed to be protecting?

Think past your knee-jerk dick waving we could smash the world nonsense and actually think about the ethics of the situation.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

rasmusbr (2186518) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383763)

Well, they don't have oil, but they have probably stored enough diesel for the drive down to the south. North Korea has more than a million troops. Tens of thousands of those are special forces. You do no want those to start moving and gain momentum and gain the initiative.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (3, Insightful)

sociocapitalist (2471722) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383643)

I think that it's probably a move meant to give the North Koreans a chance to back down and declare 'victory' to their own people so that the crisis can end before things become unpredictable.

Even if the US wanted a war with North Korea this would not be the time. A war like that takes months of planning and logistics if it's going to go well. The US and South Korea could defeat North Korea over the next couple of weeks if necessary, but at what cost?

You need to look at the cost of not going to war as well.

Would you like to wait, perhaps, until North Korea is testing their Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missile equivalents?

NK is a bully child in the playground. Fists can be ignored but when he pulls out a knife you have to do something about him...before he pulls out a gun the next time and starts shooting.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (4, Insightful)

femtobyte (710429) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384125)

North Korea has been waving their gun around for a long time. Even though you may not care about this from an American perspective, NK has for decades been fully capable of launching devastating attacks on major South Korean population centers (which don't require intercontinental long range missiles). Outside the perspective of "only American lives matter," NK's longer range weapons don't fundamentally change the diplomatic situation: they are still, as they have always been, capable of going out with an unacceptable suicidal bang, simply continuing the same decades-long tense standoff (in order to continue, on their side, receiving aid money/supplies as appeasement). NK's current round of bluster is really nothing new; and, while there is no certainty in dealing with madmen, there is also no positive reason to expect that NK's actual policies (of waving a gun with their finger on the trigger, but stopping short of anything beyond warning shots) have changed.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383659)

You seem to think that this would be another "nation building" war. That president has left office. NK is a Nuclear power, live by the bomb die by the bomb.

We probably have a nuclear sub or 2 off the cost. We could empty all tubes on NK and level the country. Think of it as a new DMZ from 68th parallel to China.

Then we could turn to the other little turd, Iran, and ask if they have something they want to say...

The world loves to call the USA a tyrant, I would show the world what I tyrant is.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

Rich0 (548339) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383731)

Well, I'm sure the planning is ready - there have always been plans for NK, and no doubt they get dusted off from time to time (especially at times like these).

Logistics - sure, but the US military is basically ready to go 24x7 more-or-less. Getting all the tanks sealifted (beyond those pre-positioned - which are probably considerable) will take days, but the air war could start with fairly little notice (things like B2s are usually based out of the US anyway - they don't have to go anywhere).

Bigger issues are:
1. Cost - nobody wants to pay for yet another war.
2. Overcommitment - we're still in Iraq and Afganistan, and the US really doesn't have much left in the way of reserves (they are all deployed, aside from those who are basically resting up).

The only way the US is going to do anything is if NK starts shooting. Right now the plan seems to be to let China just starve them out until they start talking sense (China hasn't made an oil delivery to them in a month or two now).

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

gtall (79522) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384071)

The U.S. has nothing much left in Iraq except a few State Dept. employees and contractors for securing them. Do try to keep up.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383831)

You think they don't already have detailed invasion plans?

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

turp182 (1020263) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383975)

Quote: A war like that takes months of planning and logistics if it's going to go well.

Does any war go well? Some are certainly justified (the ends justify the means, take the US Revolutionary War as an example), but to say that it "went well" isn't appropriate as war is about people killing people (War on Drugs included).

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43384017)

Even if the US wanted a war with North Korea this would not be the time.

The US will not go to war with North Korea willingly, period, stop, end.

Going to war with North Korea essentially means going to war with China because if the US wins, that means a US ally (South Korea) on the Chinese border, which the Chinese will not tolerate.

You don't know much about Military do you? (4, Insightful)

s.petry (762400) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384215)

Come now, stop and think. What does North Korea have that can not be stopped at will, and don't you realize that those logistics have been worked out pretty consistently? Does North Korea have an Air Force? The answer is "NO", they do not. The few planes they have would be shot down within seconds of taking flight. Nothing they have compares with the US or South Korean planes.

Does North Korea have a Navy? The answer is "NO". They have a few small boats and subs, that like their military planes, would be neutralized within minutes of an engagement.

The few North Korean Soldiers on the border that lived after the first hour of engagement would be just like the Iraqi Army in Gulf 1 and 2. We would have more problems with refugees and surrendering troops than we would the N. Korean Military. ("We" being S. Korea more than the US)

We are not very worried about the few T72 tanks that NK has, so the only thing that may cost a few lives is the initial artillery fire. Air power would eliminate that artillery pretty quickly. Oh, and before you hype the short range rockets remember that those are worse than artillery. They are fire and forget with very poor range, extreme inaccuracy, and often don't even explode on impact.

The biggest rational fears are with the few scud missiles they have, which are inaccurate and slow. We have had Patriot batteries in South Korea from long before we saw them in the Gulf wars. Think about what they have been trying to hype on the News over the last couple days. "N. Korea has moved 1-3 medium range missiles to the east. Really, 1-3 missiles is a concern when they are scud type missiles? That is laughable if you stop and think about it! It would be sad of course if they were to hit someone with one and people died, don't get me wrong. But it is not a big military threat.

I have not quite figured out the game that's being played politically, but the hype of doom and gloom is grossly exaggerated. I have some speculations, but at present they are not very sound. Some considerations are "Why has China not stopped NK from threats?" China has that much power over NK, perhaps they want to be involved? Why has the US propaganda media (Fox/ABC/NBC) been hyping NK as a real military threat like they did the Iraqi Army? We know their capabilities, and have no reason to over play them unless our politicians (or perhaps more appropriately the people pulling their strings) want a war.

And lets not put this into terms like the propaganda machine might. We don't need to invade and capture North Korea to win and neither does South Korea. We take out anything in their military that "may" cause anyone else harm and leave them the fuck alone. Let the great leader sit in the sand box and cry because you took his shovel away for trying to hit other kids with it. If South Korea want's to drive up to the capital and make it official, that's fine but the US does not have too, and should not consider it.

There is no need for a long drawn out Gorilla war, and if we get into one it's our the politicians fault. Our politicians need to be dealt with harshly if that happens.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (5, Insightful)

Zedrick (764028) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383475)

It's the responsible thing to do. This is not a video game or some retarded "never back down" action movie for teenagers. If a change of plans might help avoiding a war (or avoid adding to the fuel), good.

And if it fails... (1)

Livius (318358) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383665)

And since missile systems are corporate welfare programmes with no actual military purpose, maybe it would be a good idea not to have a test that could go badly and provide the wrong kind of encouragement.

Re:And if it fails... (1)

ScentCone (795499) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383969)

And since missile systems are corporate welfare programmes with no actual military purpose, maybe it would be a good idea not to have a test that could go badly and provide the wrong kind of encouragement.

Spoken just like someone who's never had a SCUD come sailing over their border to land indiscriminately in the middle of the town where you live and work. But of course your assertion is iron-clad here on Slashdot, because you used the magic root password: "corporate." Yes! If it takes a group of people to form a business to make or do something bigger than running a dog grooming operation out of Mom's basement, it must be Eeeevil. I realize that you make your game playing money by putting flyers for that dog grooming company under people's windshield wipers, and that you make your own paper for those flyers from crushed dandelion leaves so that don't buy them from Corporate Paper Goons ... so, you definitely get street cred for that.

Re:And if it fails... (1)

gtall (79522) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384075)

Actually, the missile part of DoD is the cheap part, the real money is in pensions, health care, active duty military, etc.

Strictly Theater (2)

DaveAtFraud (460127) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384233)

No one seems to have pointed out that North Korea has no national means of detecting the launch of such a missile and it's doubtful that they have a radar that would be able to track the RVs when they hit around Kwajalein. I guess someone hanging around Vandenburg AFB (where we launch the operational readiness test flights; not an operational ICBM field) could phone Kim-jung Un and tell him we launched it but that's about it. Likewise, an ICBM launched from the U.S. at North Korea would follow a great circle ballistic trajectory that wouldn't take it anywhere near Kwaj. Nor would a missile launched from Vandenburg at Kwaj have a trajectory that looks at all like it's headed for North Korea.

Stupid diplomatic theater. Do something meaningless but make sure the world knows about it.

Cheers,
Dave

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383481)

I concur. Last thing we should do is act like we care how they feel. Well, until they are willing to play nice.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383489)

That pimple on the ass country is actually making us change our military test plans? Puhhhlllease.

25,000+ troops stationed in the other half of that country for the last few fucking decades.

Seems that "pimple on the ass" country has been creating military action for far longer than your ignorance or attention span can command.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1)

Registered Coward v2 (447531) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383545)

That pimple on the ass country is actually making us change our military test plans? Puhhhlllease.

No, it the normal thing sane countries do when tensions are high. They want to avoid a miscalculation that results in an outcome that neither side wants. It's part of the rules. For example, Bears regularly conducted surveillance overflights on carrier battle groups. They knew not to open bomb bay doors, and we simply trailed them. Sometimes, a country breaks the rules; such as Libya when several MIGs kept turning towards 2 F-14s every time the Tomcats turned away to indicate they were not intending to engage; so we splashed the two MIGs.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383641)

A pimple? The DPRK is the culmination of the works of the great generalissimos, whose legacy is continued by the great commander and military strategist Kim Jong-un. Although he has never openly participated in any kind of military action, his performance in our most advanced military simulation exercises obviously has Obama shaken.

http://www.atarihq.com/reviews/2600/combat.html [atarihq.com]

While we work for peace, the brigandish United States and her cronies viciously hurl themselves headlong in to a worker fashioned cauldron of glorious nuclear justice, like stray cats in to a righteous furnace of repudiation.*

* This Is What North Koreans Actually Believe

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (2)

Bearhouse (1034238) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383747)

Well, it's not very erudite, but flamebait? A little harsh, mods.
OP was not advocating 'testing' it on a NK target, for example.

(S)he's got a point; why should the USA, (I'm not from there), change its plans?
Pandering to NK has never worked. Ever.

A little quote. Stalin once said of international diplomacy

"Push the tip of the bayonet in. If you hit mush, push the bayonet through to the hilt. If you hit steel, withdraw the bayonet."

Time to show a little steel, methinks. Of course we don't want to provoke yet another senseless war, but showing that we're ready to respond in a very robust way to aggression is required IMHO. When I say "we", I mean all the democratic powers.

BTW, that would also send a useful message to China, who would doubtless piss and moan, but ultimately accept it.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (-1, Flamebait)

someones (2687911) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383749)

Its all about political image. Noone outside the US cares about the US anymore. Stocktrading is shifting to Euro or Yen and Yuan. With the random Military strikes and random laws in the last 10 years, the US image is going down the drain.

Noone sees the US as the land of endless possibilities. Now its the country of corporate government.
You might want to change your name to United states of Google,Apple,Oracle,...

So unless you want to even more ruin your image, you may not ever shoot at NK.
Unless of course you want to be seen as the country that is trollbait and fell for the big fat troll.

Re:Are You Kidding Me? (1, Insightful)

LVSlushdat (854194) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384171)

The fact that Barack "Chamberlin" Obama, the appeaser, is ordering this, pretty much guarantees if NK *does* have the stones to lob a nuke at SK/Alaska/Hawaii, that Obama won't retaliate in kind.. I strongly suspect "Lil Kim" and his cronies have the wherewithall to hit SK pretty much anywhere, with whatever nuclear materials they have, and perhaps as far as Alaska/Hawaii... Lil Kim doesn't even have to aim it very well.. Get it close to Anchorage or Honolulu and do an airburst at 50K ft.. Can you say EMP? Those cities would lose their electronic infrastructure, and likely not very many casualties, except for electronics...

We learned in WWII from the original appeaser, Neville Chamberlin, that appeasing flat-ass crazy dictators didn't work.. Give em a inch and they take a mile.. We need another Eisenhower... He stood up to NK/China and put in place the armistise that survived until Lil Kim got ahold of it just now..

We is soooo screwed with Obama at the helm....

here's my prediction (3, Funny)

etash (1907284) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383391)

kim jong un, the son of kim jong il who lately became known as kim jong ded, was recruited by the CIA during his switzerland university years and is acting together with the US to bring down the regime by triggering some sort of crisis.

Re:here's my prediction (1)

MrL0G1C (867445) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383473)

If this were true, there would be no reason for Kim to trust the CIA, if the regime falls, they'd deny all knowledge / feed him to the wolves.

Re:here's my prediction (1)

etash (1907284) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383505)

yes, because in a country of 24+ million it is impossible to find a body double, or someone who looks enough like him and throw the poor impostor to the wolves

Re:here's my prediction (5, Funny)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383519)

yes, because in a country of 24+ million it is impossible to find a body double

Kim Jong Un is a fat boy. Fat folks are in short supply in North Korea.

Re:here's my prediction (1)

etash (1907284) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383525)

now i must admit that was a valid point!

Re:here's my prediction (2)

MightyYar (622222) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383585)

Even now, Lockheed scientists are working full 8-hour days in a crash plan to develop a fat-seeking missile.

Their testing is slowed by the need to find a test site well away from a Wal-Mart.

Re:here's my prediction (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383679)

If he can get enough food to feed his fat face i have no doubt he'd be able to get enough to feed his double.

There is actually a lot of precedent for this, from Saddam which supposedly had no less than 4 doubles he'd use to make "appearances" in places that weren't strictly Baathist all the way back to Hitler whose use of a double was well known enough the Soviets had their soldiers scour the German countryside to find Hitler's dentist just to make sure the body they found was his and not the double.

Re:here's my prediction (1)

turkeyfeathers (843622) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383523)

In a country of 24+ million starving people, it probably would be impossible to find a body double for that pudgy lunatic.

Re:here's my prediction (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383535)

Kim Jung Un is the fattest north korean to ever live - any body-double-swap would have to be accompanied by a story of his miraculous weight loss.

Re:here's my prediction (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383583)

Simple, he contracted some sort of disease. Maybe cancer. That can drastically cut your weight, right? Or is that just a side-effect of western treatment?

Re:here's my prediction (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383635)

While NK is short on food, I suspect they can gather up enough to make a body double fat as well. They'd do that even if it meant some family somewhere starves to death.

Makes sense (1)

Quick Reply (688867) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383401)

They are just saving it up for a real target, which could up come pretty soon. Those things aren't cheap.

Re:Makes sense (2)

aliquis (678370) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383469)

What's cheaper than and more efficient than fighting wars?

To not do it.

Han shoots first (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383427)

Looks like US blinks first
Oops, I think we just had our own Berlin Wall moment

Re:Han shoots first (1)

charlesbakerharris (623282) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383457)

I thought George Lucas had retired from writing awkward, unfunny, meaningless drivel. Yet here you are, posting on Slashdot.

Judgement Day (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383459)

I think the Americans had it coming with all their lies, killing and illegal invasions. Shameful country. I hope this 4th of July will be well lit by Kim's fireworks.

They can't guarantee anyone's safety because (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383477)

they really don't know where the missile will land ... could hit anything, sorry

Why do yu need a new intercont missile ??? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383487)

Why the heck are you still developping new fangled intercontinental missile ? Haven't you checked out ? Cold war is over, what you already have is enough, if you want to develop stuff for NASA do it so, with incidental benefit for your nuclear warfare, but doing it the other way around, develop new missile with accidental NASA benefit is so 1980 backward head-in-the-ass thinking...

Re:Why do yu need a new intercont missile ??? (1)

gatkinso (15975) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383495)

Minuteman III was developed in the 1960's. Sorry about your ignorance.

Re:Why do yu need a new intercont missile ??? (2)

turkeyfeathers (843622) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383537)

I see the problem here and you're both right. Minuteman Three was developed in the 1960s, but the latest iteration Minuteman One Hundred and Eleven still needs to be tested... you don't think the military-industrial complex has been idling for these past four decades now do you?

Re:Why do yu need a new intercont missile ??? (1)

MightyYar (622222) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383595)

Well, you can't just leave a missile in a silo for 5 decades and expect it to still work. Anyway, the mission has changed for ICBMs. There are far fewer, so the individual missiles must be more accurate and more reliable.

Re:Why do yu need a new intercont missile ??? (1)

gigaherz (2653757) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383567)

They are not testing for development purposes. They are testing if they STILL WORK. Because you wouldn't want to be attacked and then realize the missile has been dead for a decade or 2.

Re:Why do yu need a new intercont missile ??? (1)

Tastecicles (1153671) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383765)

um... the Atlas and the Titan were ICBM launch platforms. NASA discovered a secondary use as Mercury and Gemini launchers.

In fact, the whole entire space program is an incidental to ballistic missile technology developed by Nazi Germany, for weapons of mass destruction, during the Second World War.

Re:Why do yu need a new intercont missile ??? (1)

jedidiah (1196) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384055)

> Why the heck are you still developping new fangled intercontinental missile ?

We have crazy dictators threatening us with a nuclear first strike.

Appeasement (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383539)

Because appeasement and good intentions has worked out so well for us in history.

What happens on Wednesday? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383597)

'they could not guarantee their safety from next Wednesday'

Why? what is happening on Wednesday. Have I missed some thing or is some thing going to happen that we dont know about?

Do as We Say, Not as We Do. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383627)

How predictable most posts are:
* We testing if stuff still works == good
* Them testing to develop stuff (regardless of reason) == bad

Opportunity Cost (5, Insightful)

sociocapitalist (2471722) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383653)

You have to ask yourself...what is the cost of not going to war against North Korea now.

Do you want to wait to be certain that he has not only nuclear capability and also medium range missile capability but the ability to launch medium range missiles with nuclear warheads (which may not currently be the case) ?

Re:Opportunity Cost (2)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383833)

You are starting to understand how they feel about you. That is the real problem here. They can't just abandon their long range nuclear weapons programme because it is the only thing protecting them. They have to play this dangerous game.

I don't know what the solution is. I know what it isn't though: military intervention.

Re:Opportunity Cost (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383847)

On the other side of the scale is an extremely weighty counter-question:
Can the USA afford another ground invasion and the regime change + nation building that would follow?

The answer to that is unequivocally "No"

Re:Opportunity Cost (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383963)

You have to ask yourself...what is the cost of not going to war against North Korea now.

The cost would depend on China's reaction:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#China_intervenes_.28October_.E2.80.93_December_1950.29

While NK is annoying, the Chinese probably appreciate a bit of a buffer between South Korea and themselves.

40 year old tech (1)

Lawrence_Bird (67278) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383741)

though they have "upgraded" bits and pieces of the originals over the years. Have to wonder whether it would have been cheaper to deploy a newer missile than continue to fuck around with retrofits (and for another 20 years based on current plans).

Re:40 year old tech (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43384201)

Some things work to the point where if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The orignal designs are near-optimal for the intended role, and what few updates there are tend to be minor improvements. For instance the B-52s are another weapons platform that has been kept going for years longer than expected, and the A-10 may also end up extended as there's no good replacement able to do its job.

As for the missiles, solid fuel missiles don't have much in the way of moving parts. The missiles should be reliable provided they keep well in storage and minor maintenance done to keep batteries up and lubricants from drying out is adequate. Other parts shouldn't be too hard to update either, if the rest of the hardware is known, it should be fairly straight forward to design a "plug-n-play" guidance system update with any revisions in later maintenance packages. Basically scheduled test launches like this aren't really much as tests (we know the missiles typically work as intended), but more of a quality control measure in regards to inventory.

ob. yeah, whatever (4, Funny)

Tastecicles (1153671) | about a year and a half ago | (#43383743)

"Kim..."
"WHAT?"
"Eat your Snickers."
"WHY!?"
"'Cos you turn into a right megalomaniac when you're hungry." ::CHOMP!::
"...Better?"
"Oppa Gangnam Syle!"

Aldrizzell? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43383971)

Since when is Aldrizzell a reputable news source? Like I could give two rats asses what ANYONE writes in that roll of toilet paper.

US = bankrupt and can't afford 3 occupations ... (1)

acidfast7 (551610) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384241)

It makes fiscal sense not to provoke the DPRK. the US is essentially bankrupt and can't be spending money to occupy a third country (Afghanistan, Iraq and DPRK). Personally, I'd like to see the US slide further down the economic slippery slope (hello from Germany) but it really doesn't make long-term fiscal sense ... not that it has ever stopped the US before.

Welcome tourists! (1)

Chewbacon (797801) | about a year and a half ago | (#43384283)

No, seriously, they are still open for tourism. These guys are throwing a fit like a 6 year old wanting McDonald's over broccoli for dinner.
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