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Video Editor Kdenlive 0.9.6 Released

timothy posted about a year and a half ago | from the it's-hard-to-say-is-all dept.

KDE 95

jrepin writes "Version 0.9.6 of free and open source video editor Kdenlive has been announced. This version adds a Reverse clip option to Clip Jobs that creates a backwards clip.The list of audio/video bitrates can now be customized in custom rendering profiles. New release also fixes several bugs and crashes, including a very annoying bug that caused project files to seem corrupted."

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still kde (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43388923)

Eat my balls, who would want to use a desktop with a smelly foot on it

Re:still kde (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43389071)

+1, kde's move to that ugly shell was an awful decision. their subsequent adoption by Ubondo ruined Ubondo too.

Re:still kde (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43390947)

It's Gnome that's got the 'smelly foot', retard.

Re:still kde (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43393773)

No shits, idiot.

Too late... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43388967)

...Jobs was clipped a long time ago.

cmdline (0, Offtopic)

buchner.johannes (1139593) | about a year and a half ago | (#43388977)

Why isn't there a suite of command-line tools to handle video clips yet, such as cutting, merging, transitions, variable speeds, inserting still images for a certain length, etc.? Each would be relatively simple, testable tasks, and (optionally) GUIs could be built around those tools.
And no, ffmpeg is not the answer; it breaks audio tracks when cutting/merging/speeding up.

Re:cmdline (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43389029)

Ok, let's start thinking about the IPC. (head explodes)

Re:cmdline (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43389067)

And what server-client architecture operating system IPC has to do with video editing?

Re:cmdline (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43389481)

OP suggests command line tools that get orders from a GUI, and OP sibling calls that IPC and points out that its complex, and OP grandkid gets explanation about that by môi.

Re:cmdline (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43389041)

er....maybe because, oh, I don't know, it's video!

I would guess most (if not all) video editors, as in people, would like to see the video they're editing.

Oh, sure, you can argue your case for batch jobs and whatnot, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and trust that most visual video editing tools have this kind of functionality.

Re:cmdline (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43389099)

Not those ugly and difficult batch scripts.

It should be something so easy as

To cut part of video from 3min 11 second to 3min 56 second:

$ editor filename.ogv -start 03:11 -end 03:56 -o extracted_part.ogv

Then simply to convert all videos and pictures to wanted format. Like encode few different encoded video to same with same container in very simple manner and convert all image files to same scale and format and attach soundtrack as well.

And last task is to join all together:

$ join -v start.png intro.avi extracted_part1.avi middle.png extracted_part2.avi outro.avi end.png -s soundtrack.mp3 > movie.avi
(-v for video, -s for soundtrack).
There, done.

Re: cmdline (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43389411)

Because this is an extremely generic use case. When editing video, most often users need to cut at a specific frame not neccesarily time. Unless the user knows that frame 4923 is the one they want before hand somehow, they need to see and playback the video. Now can it be done using a command line and a separate window? Yes. Is that more cumbersome than a graphical UI? Yes.

Re: cmdline (3, Informative)

Tapewolf (1639955) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389475)

Because this is an extremely generic use case. When editing video, most often users need to cut at a specific frame not neccesarily time. Unless the user knows that frame 4923 is the one they want before hand somehow, they need to see and playback the video. Now can it be done using a command line and a separate window? Yes. Is that more cumbersome than a graphical UI? Yes.

You'd use SMPTE format - specify the time and the frame, e.g. 00:03:56:23.

Yeah, you'd still need to preview the video to find the edit points, but as I understand it, this is essentially how it was done from about 1975-1995 or so using systems like CMX, You'd enter the list of edit points, load up the videotapes and the computer would handle the edit/assembly by itself.

Re: cmdline (1)

mug funky (910186) | about a year and a half ago | (#43391503)

you'd have several source decks remote-controlled by your editing machine, and you'd set ins and outs which end up in a record list tied to one deck (or a few that mirrored the same codes, so you could spit out a few dubs at the same time).

you always had a monitor in front of you - if anyone had to work blind they were doing it wrong.

Re: cmdline (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about a year and a half ago | (#43391649)

The point that was made isn't that it can't be done via command line. The point was the nature of video editing is better with a graphical UI. Besides just cutting, how do you do transitions via command line. Also what about sound editing? And any special effects. Anyone who has done this using a video editor today has multiple windows with lots of information being presented. Using a command line to edit video would be like asking someone to use a command editor to layout a magazine or edit photos. Yes you can do it, but for the average person, it's pretty cumbersome.

Re:cmdline (1)

mug funky (910186) | about a year and a half ago | (#43391465)

editing is not for cutting out the commercial breaks - it's for telling stories.

Re:cmdline (2)

ThePhilips (752041) | about a year and a half ago | (#43392227)

You should check both MKVMerge and MEncoder.

MEncoder definitely capable of extracting part of the movie(*) and combining several ones together. (*)Though IIRC at least in the past MEncoder insisted on frame numbers and wasn't accepting simple times. (I had very little luck with the MEncoder since it often screwed up the A/V sync. But apparently it works for many, since literally all video reencoders for iPhone/PSP/PS3/etc are based on it.)

MKVMerge can't reencode and as such is more limited. But often is sufficient and produces very good results. It definitely can extract part of input. Joining several movies together I have never tried, but googling says it is also possible. (Nice thing about MKVMerge is that it has GUI and CLI. GUI, after clicking all desired options and whatnot, provides you with the command line to be used to start the actual CLI mkvmerge. You can take the command and tweak it to your heart content. I have used that to remux batch of movies with different sound and subtitles, by simply replacing input/output file names in the command line.)

Overall, what you ask is literally impractical: extracting creates a copy of a movie (large input = large output), combining/appending is potentially reencoding (output must be encoded homogeneously, while input is not guaranteed to be homogeneous) and thus very slow. You might wait an hour for the command to finish, only to find that you have cut too much or too little. That is why the video editors are GUI: you select the inputs, you tell it what to you want from it and then you can preview the end result, without waiting hours for the actual rendering.

P.S. Long in the past I have also used the Transcode. Worked pretty well, though is limited to AVI and MPEG2. But it does seem to be abandoned now.

Re:cmdline (1)

Lumpy (12016) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389979)

And that limb does not exist. none of the current pro video editing suites support blind automation.

Honestly some Command line tools that can be scripted would rock for even broadcast media. Let me use one of the new Pro cameras that will use a pair of GSM radios to upload the video I just shot to a FTP server that I can then search the audio for a 1khz tone to mark the begin of the take, cut it there add in a leader then add in the lower third with the text from the metadata (all can be edited in the camera easily) and then do the same with the 1k tone market at the end. Now the media is prepped and ready for air or quick review before being posted to the website.

This would create an awesome automated workflow for TV stations as well as some of the newer internet media groups. inserting the 1K tone is brain dead easy to do with a simple interface between the XLR shotgun mic and the camera input.

Re:cmdline (1)

mug funky (910186) | about a year and a half ago | (#43391527)

timecode has userbits - no need for detecting pips.

btw, this stuff is already done sort of.

and digislates will do the tones for you.

Re:cmdline (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43389087)

Wouldn't it be hilarious if, when re-inventing this brand-new wheel of yours, you came upon a bug where the audio tracks break when cutting/merging/speeding up.

Then you had to spend time fixing this bug.

Re:cmdline (5, Informative)

GeniusDex (803759) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389201)

Actually, this is what kdenlive does: it is a GUI frontend for the CLI MltMelt tool (http://www.mltframework.org/bin/view/MLT/MltMelt). Given, it is one command which does everything instead of multiple small commands, but there is still a separation between the program doing the work and the program providing the GUI.

Re:cmdline (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389553)

there is still a separation between the program doing the work and the program providing the GUI

Wait ... so why does the frontend crash when I try to import a .flv (libflv gets blamed)?

Re:cmdline (1, Insightful)

MacGyver2210 (1053110) | about a year and a half ago | (#43391045)

Yes, but does it actually WORK? The previous versions I have used were all steaming piles of dung. Is this a new, better-functioning release, or is this just another "Hey, look at us linux folk, we can do what the rest of you can, too"?

That is what these usually turn out to be, and it's annoying to download/test a new release to realize it's the same shitty package with a new number tacked on.

Re:cmdline (2)

Joce640k (829181) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389213)

And no, ffmpeg is not the answer; it breaks audio tracks when cutting/merging/speeding up.

Imagine a world where we rewrite all software from scratch every time somebody finds a bug...

Re:cmdline (4, Funny)

Kawahee (901497) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389259)

Imagine a world where we rewrite all software from scratch every time somebody finds a bug...

Imagine the job security!

Re:cmdline (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43389297)

Imagine a world where we rewrite all software from scratch every time somebody finds a bug...

Imagine a world where we only patch old software and never try new approaches.

Just going for one option is retarded and just as bad as only going for the other.
One must always make the judgment if the current approach is best with some modification or if it's better to keep it as is and create another tool for the new problem.

When it comes to reinventing the wheel we made that call pretty recently when it was easier to make a new design than to adapt 17th century wheels to modern vehicles and roads.

Re:cmdline (2)

mabinogi (74033) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389409)

If his argument was that ffmpeg's entire philosophy and way of working wasn't what he wanted then your response would be valid. But no, his entire reason for utterly discounting it was one - and only one - bug. Maybe he had more reasons, but the only one he felt worthy of sharing was that one bug.

Re:cmdline (1)

AvitarX (172628) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389863)

I think I read about a windows video editor that worked off of text based script files.

someone complained it didn't exist on linux.

Re:cmdline (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43390365)

Should have used image-based script folders instead.

Re:cmdline (1)

mug funky (910186) | about a year and a half ago | (#43391555)

that's avisynth. it works in wine quite well.

it's also being ported (avxsynth) and rebuilt with python driving the scripting part (vapoursynth).

not the best for editing, but amazing for processing and all kinds of format conversion

Re:cmdline (1)

geminidomino (614729) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389961)

I've never done much video editing, but I can tell you for sure that MEncoder [wikipedia.org] can at least do cutting and merging.

Might be a good starting point to look at.

Re:cmdline (2)

mug funky (910186) | about a year and a half ago | (#43391433)

no it doesn't (ffmpeg that is). but it's much easier to do it wrong than right, and the docs are awful (i often have to read the source to figure out how to use a particular feature).

also, try avxsynth and vapoursynth (the latter doesn't do audio yet, but is very promising and python based so quite GUIable).

but fuck the CLI - linux needs something better than a toy editor and needs something with professional features and a familiar interface. for some reason every opensource video editor seems to think the timeline idea is bad somehow and they make their own retarded interface that nobody wants or can understand.

what is needed is something that can produce EDLs at the very least. XMLs and ALEs, or MXF would be a good place to go from there.

Re:cmdline (1)

HiThere (15173) | about a year and a half ago | (#43392469)

Nothing wrong with having a CLI available (and I believe it is) but were I editing video files for most purpose I'd prefer a video interface.

E.g., when editing animations I'd rather use The Gimp then geany, even though I could (probably) do the job on either. (Actually, I've never tried to edit a frame with geany, perhaps it would reject it, or at least give me a read only version. I might need to use a hex editor.)

Re:cmdline (1)

AdamHaun (43173) | about a year and a half ago | (#43393143)

Why isn't there a suite of command-line tools to handle video clips yet, such as cutting, merging, transitions, variable speeds, inserting still images for a certain length, etc.?

AviSynth [avisynth.org] is a scripting language/library that can do those things, but it's more useful as glue logic than a standalone editor. You really need to see what you're working on when editing video. Even simple effects can involve some manual tweaking to figure out what looks good, and having a real-time random access preview in a non-linear editor is ideal. Seeing audio waveforms is also helpful -- maybe you want to synchronize a video effect with the audio, for instance. I'm currently adding RiffTrax commentary tracks to movie audio/video to make custom Blu-rays, which is a lot easier if I can see how the waveforms line up at the synch points.

You also have the question of how to handle (or rather, avoid) re-encoding. Does each tool output a huge raw temporary file? Do you use pipes to go from stdout->stdin through a mile-long command line? Do you have to run the tools in video-chronological order? How do you synchronize the audio with the video?

Re:cmdline (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about a year and a half ago | (#43393399)

You mean like ffmpeg/avconv?

Re:cmdline (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about a year and a half ago | (#43393415)

Addendum: Oh and about the audio breaking thing, it depends on which mode you use. RTFM.

Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (4, Interesting)

Jagungal (36053) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389307)

.. and didn't introduce new ones.

Having used it in the past it was a very nice product but I did find it a bit frustrating at times with it's crashes and bugs right in the middle of a project.

Might have to fire it up again and have a look.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (5, Insightful)

mabinogi (74033) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389423)

It's pretty much the best open source video editor out there. It has the right mix of ease of use and functionality - they just need to work on the flakiness. Every now and then when I have need to do video editing, I've looked at the alternatives, and Kdenlive - crashes and all - is the only thing that ever actually does the job.

The commercial Windows based editors may well work a lot better, but I'll never know, because I'll never use any of them.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

tyrione (134248) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389731)

It's pretty much the best open source video editor out there. It has the right mix of ease of use and functionality - they just need to work on the flakiness. Every now and then when I have need to do video editing, I've looked at the alternatives, and Kdenlive - crashes and all - is the only thing that ever actually does the job.

The commercial Windows based editors may well work a lot better, but I'll never know, because I'll never use any of them.

That's not saying much seeing as any one with a brain and some cash working in video editing, compositing, etc., are embracing Final Cut Pro X, Avid and the others. They sure as hell won't touch this product until it's on par in it's like as Blender is for the 2.68 release.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43389795)

Dude, have you actually tried to use Avid? It's nicknamed "Avoid" for a reason.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43390509)

Final cut, you mean the final cut that was turned into a Fischer price toy recently? "You're editing it wrong!"

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

jedidiah (1196) | about a year and a half ago | (#43391445)

Not just a Fisher Price toy but a $1000 Fisher Price toy.

It's like the 2014 Ferraris coming with a governor that only lets you do 20 MPH.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43393881)

Like it or not, that Fischer price toy is still decades ahead of any open source video editing software.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

mug funky (910186) | about a year and a half ago | (#43391637)

more cash than brain there. FCPx is the reason sales of Premiere went up so much.

Avid is a little difficult to get started on, but is better for film. there'll always be a place for the offline/online split, because now all the computers can do HD in realtime in finished quality, people are starting to shoot in 4k, 5k, and up. Avid can deal with piddly low-res stuff and makes damn sure it matches the 4k 3D crazy high res stuff without causing the colourist several weeks of panicked conforming where the offline has destroyed the reel numbers and timecodes and they have to just pop each and every reel up on the telecine to see which is which, rather than just putting the EDL into the film scanner and letting it rip.

yes, i was that panicked colourist and was earning far too little to be chasing my short-ends around.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43392375)

Final Cut Pro X, are you serious?

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (4, Informative)

Lumpy (12016) | about a year and a half ago | (#43390013)

You should try, because serious pro level stuff is not possible on linux yet. and I would gladly pay $500 for a linux video editor on par with even Sony Vegas 9. (They are currently at version 12)

I would love to edit under linux, but I cant because I need to edit fast and have a stable editing suite. And that is ignoring that there is nothing like After effects or Motion for linux that exists.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (2)

PentiumBug (1070782) | about a year and a half ago | (#43390127)

I have been waiting a year and a bit, probably two, for this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEJcPKD9p7A [youtube.com] . Almost everything I have done in the last ten years has been on Avid systems, but I know that Lightworks is also "up there"... ask Scorsese.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

MacGyver2210 (1053110) | about a year and a half ago | (#43391077)

Sony is beginning a push toward Mac software, and I don't see it taking an enormous leap for that to run on other linux-based systems.

Ummm (2)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about a year and a half ago | (#43391309)

There's a pretty big leap. All other issues aside, Linux does not have the robust media layer that Windows and MacOS do. Makes a port much more work to do and support.

If MacOS was just an easy step to Linux, well then why isn't there more stuff? I mean take some pro audio and video software:

Steinberg Nuendo: Windows and Mac.
Avid Media Composer: Windows and Mac.
Adobe Premier: Windows and Mac.
Sony Vegas: Windows.
Final Cut Pro: Mac.
Steinberg Cubase: Windows and Mac.
Digital Performer: Windows and Mac.
Presonus Studio One: Windows and Mac.
Avid Pro Tools: Windows and Mac.
Cockos Reaper: Windows and Mac.
Abelton Live: Windows and Mac.
Cakewalk Sonar: Windows.
Apple Logic Pro: Mac.

There's a lot of cross platform software, and some Mac only software. Not seeing anything Linux though. This list is pretty much all the heavy hitters in video and audio. I'm sure I could come up with a few more, if I thought on it, and I'm sure they also would be the same.

So I wouldn't count on Linux software out of Sony suddenly. There's a big difference between doing Mac support and Linux support.

Re:Ummm (1)

mug funky (910186) | about a year and a half ago | (#43391689)

your point stands, but a lot of that works in wine, and cockos is working on a linux port of reaper.

Re:Ummm (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43392145)

Is it really that big of a leap, or is it just perceived as one by the beancounters in charge? Do they even believe there exists a market?

Even you, a frequenter of slashdot, sprout gibberish like "Linux does not have the robust media layer", which in context is complete nonsese. I give you that pulse-audio isn't all that great, but fuck, the audiostack in windows isn't exactly erm.. flawless either. In Linux you have alternatives like jack.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

mug funky (910186) | about a year and a half ago | (#43391669)

nuke for motion graphics (or even digitalfusion).

i think the autodesk editing programs run in linux. you'll be paying much more than $500 for smoke, combustion, etc though.

at the lower end there's always lightworks, but you'll need to wait a bit while they get their shit together.

premiere 6.5 may work in wine if you poke at it enough. cut in DV quicktime and you stand a chance. export EDL and conform in something else.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | about a year and a half ago | (#43392653)

So I take that Pixar and Disney are not doing serious pro video editing on their Linux clusters...

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

linuxpyro (680927) | about a year and a half ago | (#43393377)

A lot of the visual effects companies tend to run Linux on workstations (except for things like Photoshop, obviously), as well as on the servers. Not sure what Pixar's using on their workstations, but either way 3D modeling and compositing are different beasts than editing.

That said, there are a few commercial video editors that seem to support Linux; I found out about Mistika [wikipedia.org] on Wikipedia. I'm not sure how widely systems like that are used, though.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

Lumpy (12016) | about a year and a half ago | (#43396867)

Nope. they do absolutely NO editing on linux. Their clusters are for 3d rendering only. raw footage is spooled off and sent to editing that is done on AVID.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43390331)

It's pretty much the best open source video editor out there. It has the right mix of ease of use and functionality - they just need to work on the flakiness.

When i needed to edit some quick video and audio together, I found that a lot of the other offerings on Linux didn't have some simple functionality I wanted, or made it too obtuse and difficult to tweak. Kdenlive seemed to have everything I wanted, and was straightforward for me to pick up. Then there was the crashing. I could live with that, since it only took a few seconds to restart the program. But then a crash corrupted the save file and created a whole mess of things that meant starting over from scratch. It is a lot slower when trying to keep a backup of the save file and video clips knowing at any moment it could be corrupted.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (2)

Culture20 (968837) | about a year and a half ago | (#43390659)

Always save to multiple save files. Never overwrite until done. Powerpoint, photoshop, kdenlive, doesn't matter what. If you've got a long term project, save it to a new file every day or hour. Only delete previous ones after confirming current ones, and usually save old ones anyway in case you want to backtrack or show a process to someone.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43391735)

Yeah, that is a great rule of thumb, but kdenlive seems to take it to a new level. I've never had Powerpoint corrupt a save file, although usually use it to make an hour long presentation once a month for several years now (I've messed things up myself before though... so still make a backup copy once a day). I've heard of complaints with Photoshop corrupting files, but I mainly use Inkscape and GIMP myself, and never had either of them corrupt files either. I still make backups once a day or when about to make a big change so I can at least catch times I change my mind about how I did something. Kdenlive on the other hand, I found I needed to basically duplicate the save files every hour or more frequently with some operations.

Some of it comes down to luck, and I'm not saying those other programs don't corrupt files. But I use most of those programs daily, and have had little to no problems. Kdenlive I use maybe once or twice a year, and every time it had a multiple crashes taking out save files.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (0)

tehcyder (746570) | about a year and a half ago | (#43390413)

The commercial Windows based editors may well work a lot better, but I'll never know, because I'll never use any of them.

Religious purity is far more important than common sense, eh?

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (4, Informative)

jedidiah (1196) | about a year and a half ago | (#43391461)

Running an alien OS is a lot of bother.

"Religious Purity" really has nothing to do with it.

It's the same bother for a Linux user to dinker with Windows as it is for a Windows user to dinker with Linux. At least the copy of Linux is going to be free.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43398221)

It was your decision to avoid learning anything about an operating system used by the vast majority of computer users. If you had just learnt to use Windows and become proficient at it rather than Linux, then you'd never have any troubles finding pro level tools for virtually anything.

But no. You wanted to take the more difficult path and avoid Windows entirely, as if that path has any value.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

mabinogi (74033) | about a year and a half ago | (#43408633)

There are a whole bunch of reasons why I'm not looking at the Windows video editors - but the simplest ones are:

* Linux is my primary desktop environment (and has been since the late 90s). I can use Windows, and am perfectly comfortable doing so, but switching to it means dropping out of what I'm currently doing and rebooting, which is a pain I'd rather avoid.
* Video is not my life. I only occasionally want to do anything with video - usually as a project with my daughter. Kdenlive works pretty well (apart from the crashes) but the infrequency of my usage makes it very hard to justify spending money on a commercial solution - even without adding the annoyance of switching to Windows to actually use it.

To add to that, I have in fact tried demos of some of the more popular entry level Windows based video editors, and none of them in the ~$100 range were really all that great. Maybe the $500+ range has some truly brilliant software, but again, I'll never know because it's not worth it to me. (And I do spend money when I'm going to get value from it, but Music is my real hobby, so Sonar Producer and various Softsynths are where my commercial software dollars go)

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

jellyfoo (2865315) | about a year and a half ago | (#43409101)

I'm not the AC, but he does have something of a point even if he was a bit rude going about it.

I'd like to think of myself as being quite proficient in Linux. I know my way around the command line well, I use it a lot at work and have a great appreciation for it. I've also used it as something of a hobbyist and tinkering platform at home as well. But the reason I continue to use Windows instead of Linux as my primary platform is simply because it handles virtually all situations that a home user could find a need for. I too don't have much use for video, but if/when the time comes that I find myself needing a video editor, I know there will be many of them available in Windows. Or if I need something special that fills a particular niche, Windows will probably have the software.

The incredibly large userbase of Windows does have its advantages in terms of availability of software and support. It might be annoying in certain areas but this widespread uses has a number of side benefits that shouldn't be easily dismissed I think.

As for the price of software, I no longer buy software and instead just pirate it. I used to buy software, but I realized that over 90% of my movies, music and videos were torrented anyway and there's no chance in hell I'll ever want to willingly delete all that content, so thinking I'm morally correct in buying software whilst pirating media seems so hypocritical, so in the end I just went fully pirate. In this case, the price of pro video editors isn't' a big deal.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (3, Informative)

deathguppie (768263) | about a year and a half ago | (#43390783)

I love Kdenlive, and hate it sometimes too. It is by far the best editor on Linux as of now.. however the Lightworks beta is coming very soon. http://www.lwks.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=19&id=42353&Itemid=81#42353 [lwks.com]

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

mabinogi (74033) | about a year and a half ago | (#43398353)

I hadn't seen Lightworks before. Will try it out.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43390789)

Have you tried Openshot? http://developers.slashdot.org/story/13/03/22/1858254/video-editor-openshot-wants-to-kickstart-windows-os-x-versions

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

mabinogi (74033) | about a year and a half ago | (#43398349)

* No waveform view for audio tracks (how are you supposed to sync audio and video?)
* No per-clip markers, only global markers. (How are you supposed to find points of interest and sync points in clips before dropping them on the timeline?)

In addition, a useful feature Kdenlive has - that I don't know if Openshot has - is the ability to use unrendered Kdenlive projects as clips. Which means you can create extremely complicated projects, and then only have to do one final rendering at the end. That way you can work on individual scenes separately, then combine them in a master project.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

amiga3D (567632) | about a year and a half ago | (#43392501)

iMovie and Final Cut work pretty well and you never have to boot Windows to use them. I've used Kdenlive and it has a lot of promise but really it's beta software. I did manage to edit 2 hours of video without a crash though.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (2)

Tapewolf (1639955) | about a year and a half ago | (#43393039)

iMovie and Final Cut work pretty well and you never have to boot Windows to use them. I've used Kdenlive and it has a lot of promise but really it's beta software. I did manage to edit 2 hours of video without a crash though.

I started out with iMovie, but it caused no end of problems for the project I was trying to do, essentially a slideshow with narration. I can't remember what the last straw was, but I switched over to Kdenlive on Linux and although it took a bit of getting used to and the crashes could be extremely frustrating, it worked a lot better for me than iMovie did on Snow Leopard.

Re:Hopefully it fixed a lot of bugs .... (1)

amiga3D (567632) | about a year and a half ago | (#43393659)

I just did a huge video edit on my mac mini with iMovie last week. The newest iMovie works really well unlike the newest Final Cut. I'll probably use kdenlive again when I finish building a new system I'm putting together. Right now the mac mini with quad i7 and 16gigs of ram is just the ticket though. I notice memory usage while editing and it was running over 12 gigabytes being used. Ram and CPU horsepower makes a huge difference with video. The only thing I wish is that the mini could do dual display.

Question (2)

inglorion_on_the_net (1965514) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389509)

Question, while we're on the subject. I've recently been editing some video, and kdenlive was one of the few video editors I could get to work. However, I've found no way to use the parts of the original video that I haven't modified as they are, without re-encoding. Since most of what I've done is cutting out time ranges from the original footage, using the original data without re-encoding would save a lot of time and quality degradation. Is there any way to do this (using kdenlive or another FOSS video editor)?

Re:Question (1)

Tastecicles (1153671) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389571)

Away from Linux (yes, I know!), I've just done a quick-n-dirty edit on two video clips and 15 photos, three separate soundtracks and various transitions in Nero 11. Yes, it was a royal pain in the arse to get the thing to keep the transitions (that was really the only thing that bothered me about the project), but eventually I ended up with a 720p stream (which is the same as the raw video format and some serious pulldown on the images, which are 14MP raw with minor cropping). I had to split the audio and video on the five minute video segment, which was fine as I had to boost the audio some, filter some mains hum (who knows where that came from, the camera was running on battery), and there were various cues to work with to synchronise them after trimming (being able to see the vicar's lips move and synch them with consonant markers in the waveform is a handy thing - just having the edited audio still open in Audacity, on a separate screen, is a great thing to be able to do). Did I really have to split a/v? Probably not, but it's an old habit from my VT days that I'm not about to break.

Trimming the video was fairly simple: import 720p, cutting tool, export result. Nero again. Wasn't too bothered about the audio at that point, as I was going back to that with AoA Audio Extractor (which pulls wav audio from the stream) and Audacity on audio from the original raw file.

If you can't edit raw video without pulling down (save that for finalising!), then you need a more powerful computer. 6GB RAM and a dual core was fine for the entire edit and almost-realtime finalising of this project which ran to 8 minutes. AFAIK most editors can use raw video.

Re:Question (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43389585)

Not very userfriendly, but mplayer can snip movies in parts without re-encoding using an edl (edit decision list). You kan bind a specific key to 'cut here' and the watch the movie and press the key at the opportune moment. This wil generate the edl file, whcih you can then use to split the video in parts.

It has been a while since I did this, but it used to work well.

Re:Question (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43389619)

VirtualDub [virtualdub.org]

Re:Question (1)

Tastecicles (1153671) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389739)

I only use Virtualdub for a frameserver for batch downsampling for mobile devices now, never really used the editing facility in it (though I have used the capture which is pretty good). It takes care of that niggling problem of mobile device converters that can't handle 720p source (such as Atrix 4g (Motorola) and Aura QHD (Android/HTC Sensation) to name two that don't!)

Avidemux can do this... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43390029)

Avidemux will export a video without recompressing it. Just don't change the output format (leave as "copy") then you can make your cuts, and export, and it will export almost as fast as your computer can copy the file. (ie, for a full length movie about 1-2 minutes, with edits intact)

The only caveate with this is that if you cut to close to a keyframe, often times the encoding lose information for the frame, and not exact play back correctly right at the cut, but this is a very minor thing. And if you study up on video codecs and how they work, this will make sense and you can decide better where to make cuts.

Re:Question (1)

deathguppie (768263) | about a year and a half ago | (#43390769)

This seems a strange question. Perhaps I don't understand. You can import clips and re-use the clips anywhere in the time line. You can import the same clip more than once. Or just use snippets in different places. Some modern compression schemas are not necessarily linear. That is why they cannot be concatenated. So the idea of clipping them into sections without re-encoding is unrealistic.

Re:Question (1)

inglorion_on_the_net (1965514) | about a year and a half ago | (#43407845)

Fair, but my input is Motion JPEG (I did not choose that). Seems to me that it should be possible to copy the frames that are unmodified and only generate new frames for the parts that have been modified (in my case, have filters applied to them).

In fact, the same should be possible to some extent even with more advanced video formats. E.g. if you have I-frames and P-frames, the parts of the video that aren't modified should still be able to be copied, at least when input format and output format are the same.

Re:Question (2)

nekohayo (856257) | about a year and a half ago | (#43391629)

Lossless cutting (provided that your output codecs match your input codecs) is a feature of the "GStreamer Editing Services" library and thus will be part of the next release of Pitivi (barring unforeseen bugs of course - usual disclaimer applies: no guarantee, patches welcome for issues that may arise, etc. :)

Last time I tested (a year ago), this allowed rendering a project in 7 seconds instead of 5 minutes. Pretty cool if you don't need to apply any effects and just want to shuffle some cuts around quickly without losing quality.

Avidemux can splice/crop without re-encoding (1)

KWTm (808824) | about a year and a half ago | (#43399333)

Question, while we're on the subject. I've recently been editing some video, and kdenlive was one of the few video editors I could get to work. However, I've found no way to use the parts of the original video that I haven't modified as they are, without re-encoding. Since most of what I've done is cutting out time ranges from the original footage, using the original data without re-encoding would save a lot of time and quality degradation. Is there any way to do this (using kdenlive or another FOSS video editor)?

Avidemux may be what you want. I use it to crop out parts of video files, by specifying beginning and end points of where I would like video removed. It will then splice it together, and there is a "smart copy" feature where you don't need to re-encode if you choose the same video/audio encoding, and it saves a lot of time. It doesn't always work, though, if there is audio involved: it gets out of sync. If video without audio, it works well, as long as the portions you splice together starts with a key frame (generally where there is a big change from frame-to-frame, such as scene changes, etc.).

Avidemux is a simple video editor, and after splicing/cropping the parts you want, you may want to use a different editor for more advanced stuff.

LiVES 2.0.2 (5, Interesting)

salsa man (2891241) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389761)

And in other news, LiVES 2.0.2 [sourceforge.net] was released yesterday.

Re:LiVES 2.0.2 (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43390121)

I've never seen this one before.

Whats the background?
Which came first LiVES or KDEnlive?
Which is superior at this time?

do they support ..... (2)

Lumpy (12016) | about a year and a half ago | (#43389991)

AVCHD files yet without trans-coding them?

Looks like nope... So it is useless for 90% of the camcorders out there unless you spend a few hours transcoding and losing detail.

Re:do they support ..... (1)

Salsaman (141471) | about a year and a half ago | (#43390303)

LiVES [sourceforge.net] supports it, so you could always use that instead.

Re:do they support ..... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43390469)

I'm confused. Why are there two salsamen, both with comments about LiVES? Did you forget/remember your password over the last 1:30?

Re:do they support ..... (2)

Salsaman (141471) | about a year and a half ago | (#43390723)

Lol, I logged in by accident with my gmail account, then with my slashdot account :D

Re:do they support ..... (2)

deathguppie (768263) | about a year and a half ago | (#43390801)

Different camcorders use different types of AVCHD. For a complete list of supported AVCHD formats look here [kdenlive.org]

Titles / text (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43390209)

Unfortunately the "title" feature is still in its infancy:

It's impossible to give titles "momentum" (for kinetic texts, etc). And the devs acknowledged this is a fundamental design flaw that it'd be difficult to change now.

There aren't many templates to choose either.
A friend of mine told me that with a Mac making a title is only a matter of choosing a template from a list. You can make a title with a growing flower around it, etc.
So not only it needs to advance in the technical department, but on the artistic one. We need more artists to make beautiful

Good news, indeed (2)

Rambo Tribble (1273454) | about a year and a half ago | (#43390505)

Kdenlive has the potential to be one of the best NLEs out there, but bugs have held it back. It sure would be nice to see the problems kleaned up.

Re:Good news, indeed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43390715)

You must be using KDE, why else would you want problems to be kleaned up :)

Openshot - Kickstarter Campaign (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43390773)

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/421164014/openshot-video-editor-for-windows-mac-and-linux - Contribute generously and spread the word pls. A good video editor has been long due on Linux!

Openshot Kickstarter (5, Informative)

Anand Radhakrishnan (2891361) | about a year and a half ago | (#43390821)

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/421164014/openshot-video-editor-for-windows-mac-and-linux [kickstarter.com] - Contribute generously and spread the word pls. A good video editor has been long due on Linux!

Already runs on Linux (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43391793)

It already runs on Linux; that Kickstarter is funding a port to Mac OS X and Windows.

Re:Already runs on Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43396923)

It's more than the ports to Mac/Win - It is for a rewritten engine which will handle the timeline and previews more efficiently - on all of the platforms it's on.

Re:Already runs on Linux (1)

Anand Radhakrishnan (2891361) | about a year and a half ago | (#43397929)

+1. Yes, it is to integrate the cross-platform video editing "engine" that has been built from the ground up for cross-platform, multi-threaded performance. It is written in C++, uses cross-platform build tools, and utilizes many amazing open-source libraries, such as FFmpeg & LibAV, JUCE Audio Library, and ImageMagick.
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