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BitCoin Value Collapses, Possibly Due To DDoS

Soulskill posted about a year ago | from the disrupted-just-like-real-currencies dept.

Bitcoin 605

hydrofix writes "The Bitcoin-to-USD exchange rate had been climbing steadily since January 2013, from around 30 USD to over 250 USD only 24 hours ago. Now, the value bubble seems to have burst, at least partially. The primary trading site MtGox reported a drop in value all the way down to 140 USD today, a loss of almost half in real value. With many sites unreachable or slow, there are also news of a possible DDoS attack on MtGox: 'Attackers wait until the price of Bitcoins reaches a certain value, sell, destabilize the exchange, wait for everybody to panic-sell their Bitcoins, wait for the price to drop to a certain amount, then stop the attack and start buying as much as they can. Repeat this two or three times like we saw over the past few days and they profit.'"

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Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (1, Insightful)

Spy Handler (822350) | about a year ago | (#43416533)

zero dollars...

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (3, Insightful)

The MAZZTer (911996) | about a year ago | (#43416545)

US money also technically has a real value of 1/20 of a cent per bill, that doesn't stop us.

If people will trade real goods and services for currency, that is what it is worth.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (5, Insightful)

AdmiralXyz (1378985) | about a year ago | (#43416611)

We really need a corollary for Godwin's Law adapted specifically to Bitcoin discussions: as soon as you say, "The US dollar doesn't have any intrinsic value either!", you lose.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (5, Funny)

TeknoHog (164938) | about a year ago | (#43416669)

OTOH, tulip bulbs do have intrinsic value, hence they are the ideal currency.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (5, Funny)

Sponge Bath (413667) | about a year ago | (#43416835)

Once again, the conservative, sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (5, Funny)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about a year ago | (#43417121)

Once again, the conservative, sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor.

And with High Frequency Trading, you can get rid if your sandwiches before they go bad. Everybody wins!

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (2)

turkeyfeathers (843622) | about a year ago | (#43416845)

I tried eating a tulip bulb once (thought it was a garlic bulb) and I can say that its intrinsic value isn't too high.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about a year ago | (#43416927)

Whew... stop telling us about it, please. And please, start breathing through your ears!

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (4, Insightful)

ThisIsSaei (2397758) | about a year ago | (#43416695)

One step further; if you mention that 'bitcoin' isn't a real currency. The whole argument chain is fucking tired.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (1)

F. Lynx Pardinus (2804961) | about a year ago | (#43417127)

One step further; if you mention that 'bitcoin' isn't a real currency.

Isn't there an ongoing debate whether bitcoin is a "commodity" or a "currency" or both? (I feel like I saw an article in The Economist that came down on the "both" side). I'm not completely familar with the details but I don't think it's reached a consensus, so let's not Godwin it just yet.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416901)

We really need a corollary for Godwin's Law adapted specifically to Bitcoin discussions: as soon as you say, "The US dollar doesn't have any intrinsic value either!", you lose.

Godwin's Law doesn't say you lose the argument by mentioning Hitler, merely that someone eventually will. And if it did say the former, it would be completely wrong.

Who uses bills? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416621)

My money is a few bits in my bank's private datacenter.

What's the price of a few bits? If it's what Wells Fargo is telling me it is - holy shit. I've got a NAS with several TB of storage sitting here. Do you know how large of a number I can store on that sucker?

I'M RICH! Monocles and top hats for everyone on Slashdot! You get a monocle! And you get a monocle! And you get a monocle!

And I don't even care that Anonymous Cowards are getting back in line for multiple monocles!

Re: Monocles and Top Hats (5, Funny)

SpaceManFlip (2720507) | about a year ago | (#43416699)

LOL

Google Glass will be the rich-nerd monocle of the 21st Century
If it works right etc

Wish I had bought some Bitcoins (or mined up a bunch) in January.... They're back up to about $200 now. From about $15/ea in January. Could have been more than a tenfold return if timed right.

Re: Monocles and Top Hats (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416803)

True enough, on both accounts.

But especially the second one. Perhaps I need to stop being experienced and bitter. Who wants to buy my old Flooz [wikipedia.org] ?

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416631)

US money is also the defacto currency for the largest and most powerful nation the world has ever seen, so it does have some things going for it that Bitcoin doesn't

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416653)

China? They use the yuan.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416709)

True up to the day the our economy collapses under the weight of the fat cats that are borrowing it into oblivion!!!!

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416643)

...Right. As with most Bitcoin apologists you seem to be significantly detached from reality.

Reality; until I can go to a supermarket and use Bitcoin to buy food, until I can use Bitcoin to pay for a live-saving operation, then its real value compared to "real" money is exactly fucking zero. Bitcoin apologists are so focused upon the issues of supposedly "anonymous" transactions and encryption that they refuse to see the big picture -- the technology amounts to a whole lot of nothing if it can't be used to fill your needs. And yes, eating is a need. Ordering weed from the Silk Road is not a need, that's a "want."

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (3, Informative)

cusco (717999) | about a year ago | (#43416727)

Good luck going to Safeway and buying your Jeno's frozen pizza with Euros, Yuan, or Yen, but they're all "real" money.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416811)

They can all be exchanged at an actual bank, as you already know but fail to state. Try to tell the cashier behind the counter that you have $10,000 in Bitcoin that you'd like to cash in for US dollars, see how fucking hard they laugh you out of the place. If they even know what you're talking about. Thanks for making my own point for me.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (1)

Joe Tie. (567096) | about a year ago | (#43417023)

So take a minute on your phone to cash out the bitcoins into your bank account and then withdraw it.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (1)

Squirmy McPhee (856939) | about a year ago | (#43416819)

Good luck going to Safeway and buying your Jeno's frozen pizza with Euros, Yuan, or Yen, but they're all "real" money.

Good luck going to Safeway and buying your Jeno's frozen pizza with gold or silver, but a lot of people would have you believe that those are the only "real" money.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (3, Insightful)

happyhamster (134378) | about a year ago | (#43417037)

You can easily buy a local variety of frozen pizza with Euros in the European Union, with Yuan in China, with Yen in Japan. With bitcoins, you can buy the pizza only in Bitcoinland, and at a very few fringe businesses.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43417129)

Dude, you can buy "pizza" with bitcoins.

And by "pizza" I mean, "drugs and hookers."

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (2)

pentalive (449155) | about a year ago | (#43416853)

There are places where you can trade your bitcoins for dollars. It is an extra step but you can then go buy food or pay for your operation.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416981)

By that reasoning, any commodity is currency.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about a year ago | (#43416989)

Wanting, needing... as long as there is someone putting value into something, there is a value. By your examples, managers, stock investors and bank directors are absolutely worthless scum compared to nurses, doctors and farmers... well, ok, they are, but look at their "value" in terms of money.

Privacy and untraceable bank transfers do have a value for some people, and as long as it does, there will be value in something that allows just that. Switzerland didn't have such a huge banking sector because they offered so great interest (actually, far from it), the "value" was rather that the money there is fairly secure from any government deciding to cut you off from your money and a fair amount of anonymity (which has been virtually eliminated already). That's what made this place for your money interesting, not the pure financial revenue.

BitCoins fill that need. Or "want", if you prefer. And just like every service, as long as there are people putting a value in it, it will have some.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416743)

I tried this once with McDonalds coupons years ago. The coupons said retail value one hundredth of a cent. I collected a hundred of them and tried to redeem them for a penny. They wouldn't take them. Still have them in a box somewhere... Anyone want to trade?

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416873)

"has a real value of 1/20 of a cent per bill"
hmm... where do I get it for that price, huh?
that bill for $1 is a steal, given what I would have to pay to subcontract manufacturing it.
'tis no joke

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (1)

dragon-file (2241656) | about a year ago | (#43416877)

But the difference between the USD and BitCoin is that you can't convert it all to Euros, DDoS a few sights and then convert back to USD at a profit. (I guess you could do this but the US government is less likely to just "Meh" it.)

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (0)

Spy Handler (822350) | about a year ago | (#43416967)

If people will trade real goods and services for currency, that is what it is worth.

That's just my point. In the United States, people cannot and will not be able to trade real goods and services with BC -- because the U.S. gov't has the force of armed men known as police and Secret Service agents behind them who will enforce the dollar as the sole legal tender, while BC operators have no muscle behind them -- hence the value of BC in the U.S. will be 0.

Anticipated rebuttal: "But you can already buy drugs and hemp products from Silk Road and some other places online"

Yes you can but only because the number of transactions is miniscule enough to not have attracted attention from the powers that be. Make no mistake, the feds will not tolerate a competing currency they do not control and cannot track.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43417101)

If they "do not control and cannot track" Bitcoin then how do they express their intolerance?

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416575)

"Okay, fine, Bitcoin is trivially manipulable, affected by network conditions, scammable, and has easily-exploitable bugs, just like real currency. But zomg it's DIGITAL!!1!1!!! And there's no filthy, filthy government backing it [pause here to wait for booing and hissing the government to subside]! Isn't that worth the pain of what it at best a lateral change?"

Re:Well the ultimate value of a dollar is (4, Insightful)

paulpach (798828) | about a year ago | (#43416639)

The ultimate value of a dollar is zero ... anything.

The dollar used to be a receipt for a certain amount of gold that you owned in the federal reserve. But starting from 1971, the government defaulted on this commitment and the dollar became just a piece of paper.

Bitcoin is not different in this aspect. There is nothing behind it either. The difference is that there is a limit to the amount of bitcoins that can exist, but there is no limit to the amount of dollars the government can print. The government and the bank cartel known as the federal reserve can and do print insane amount of money every year to finance government spending, at the expense of the value of every other dollar in existence.

To illustrate this, take a dime from 1942, you could buy a gallon of gas with it back then. But you can still buy a gallon of gas with the same dime _because_ it is made out of silver. So it is not that things are more expensive, it is that the money changed, there are a lot more dollars circulating now that the government and the FED printed, which has caused it to lose a lot of value over time. This kind of devaluation by printing money is mathematically impossible with bitcoins.

Re:Well the ultimate value of a dollar is (3, Interesting)

demonlapin (527802) | about a year ago | (#43416679)

You can get gas for $1.99 a gallon [coinflation.com] ? Do tell.

Re:Well the ultimate value of a dollar is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416785)

This kind of devaluation by printing money is mathematically impossible with bitcoins.

The irony of bringing that up in response to a story of how Bitcoins devalued by ~50% overnight all by themselves is hilarious.

Re:Well the ultimate value of a dollar is (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416891)

They're still worth 28 times what they were a few months ago.

Re:Well the ultimate value of a dollar is (4, Insightful)

cusco (717999) | about a year ago | (#43416789)

Before the current silver bubble started you could buy a quarter's-worth of gas. You may not be old enough to remember when the last silver bubble was, back in the 1970s, but that dime would probably have bought two gallons of gas at the time. Once enough of the common public is invested in silver and gold the speculators will collapse the bubble, the public gets taken to the cleaners, and only the banks, speculators and lawyers win. A few years ago your logic was being used to inflate the real estate market.

Re:Well the ultimate value of a dollar is (5, Insightful)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | about a year ago | (#43416861)

To illustrate this, take a dime from 1942, you could buy a gallon of gas with it back then. But you can still buy a gallon of gas with the same dime _because_ it is made out of silver.

Do it. Nine times out of 10 or more, I'll bet the attendant will say "Nice try buddy. That's a dime. It's worth 10 cents. Now pay up!"

Fiat currency works both ways. You want to get your $1.99 out of the dime, melt it down and take it to somebody who buys silver. Less fees and commissions. If it's a collectable dime, you might get more selling it to a numismatist, but the "value" of the dime will be in in its collectability, not in its silver content.

Even in 1971 the idea that everything in the world had a gold equivalent was absurd. These days we have computers and big-screen HDTVs that no amount of gold could give you back then. For a little while, these items may be worth hundreds or thousands of dollars, despite being made from inexpensive materials, then their value will plummet as something newer and better comes along. The amount of gold is limited and so, too is the value of the goods and services you can buy with it. If you owned all the gold in the world and spent it, you would still not own most of the world.

Value is what people give to things, not what things inherently have. To a parent of starving children, the only value gold has is if you can convince someone to accept it in exchange for food.

Re:Well the ultimate value of a dollar is (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about a year ago | (#43417035)

Why is everyone so hung up about printing money? Money printed is really the least of your concerns when it comes to inflation. For every greenback in circulation, thousands are digits on some bank account.

Re:Well the ultimate value of a dollar is (1)

houghi (78078) | about a year ago | (#43417053)

The dollar used to be a receipt for a certain amount of gold that you owned in the federal reserve.

And what was the value of that gold? That is just as artificial as any currency. It is just as made up.

Re:Well the ultimate value of a dollar is (4, Informative)

geekoid (135745) | about a year ago | (#43417115)

You're understanding of the dollar is laughable, at best.

" but there is no limit to the amount of dollars the government can print."
Not true in in practical way, but common statements from the ignorant masses.

" the bank cartel known as the federal reserve "
the federal reserve is not a bank cartel,. You should probably look up what a 'cartel' is so you understand why the Fed. Reserve isn't one.

Let me know when they eliminate banks, until then Rothbard isn't even worth considering.

"print insane amount of money every "
hardly insane amount.
"year to finance government spending, "
nope.

" take a dime from 1942, "
ok:
type: mercury
weight 2.5 grams (current dime weight 2.268 grams
Content: 90% silver
Silver weight 2.25 grams.
Value(4/10) 1.99 ASSUME 100% purity of the silver.
So, no you couldn't by a gallon of gas.
But Weight!*
in 1942 Cost of a gallon of Gas 15 cents, Coca Cola 5 cents Average Price for a new car $920.00
So no, it wouldn't have bought a gallon of gas, but it wold get 2 bottles of coca cola, unlike today.
you would need 9200 of them to buy a house. If what you said was correct(it isn't) the average house would 18,400 dollars today.

It's nice that you can cherry pick a dime out of all of USE dime history and kinda force it into you incorrect understanding of money, but you are wrong.

*ha!

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (1)

hydrofix (1253498) | about a year ago | (#43416681)

There is a value connected to mining and acquiring the mining equipment, but at least currently it is way lower than where the currency is trading.

Re:Well the ultimate value of Bitcoin is (1)

geekoid (135745) | about a year ago | (#43416825)

The ultimate values is the same as everything else: Whatever you can get.

loss of almost half in real value (1)

frovingslosh (582462) | about a year ago | (#43416951)

How can something that has no real value drop by almost half of its real value? BitCoin is based on the "other idiot" principle. No surprise that the value has "adjusted", the shock is that it is still so high. Consider the advice of the great philosophers Mr. T and Nelson.

Been done before... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416539)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday

Prices are wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416541)

It was over 260 and under 120.

unregulated (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416547)

so they wanted an unregulated market. this is what they get...

Cry me a river, potheads. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416549)

Since marijuana addicts are worthless scum this is great news! Hope their money becomes further devalued. Maybe they'll have to give up their addiction, become adults, and actually contribute to society in a meaningful and productive way.

Re: Marijuana Addicts (1)

SpaceManFlip (2720507) | about a year ago | (#43416739)

LOL, addicts.

Reefer Madness is a pretty funny movie.

Re: Marijuana Addicts (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416827)

That's funny and all, but marijuana addiction is a real thing.

Check out www.reddit.com/r/leaves if you want to see how difficult it is for people to quit. Some of these people have been off weed for months and still don't feel normal, and they are terrified.

What's really fucked up is that people that smoke weed dismiss those who are trying to quit as "doing it wrong" and blaming virtually everything but marijuana itself. Surely weed is such a perfect and magical drug that it couldn't be addictive, right? Well just like any other drug that makes you feel good, it is addictive. Not that surprising.

So yeah, marijuana addiction is a real thing and people struggle with it. Since we are legalizing weed everywhere we might as well be honest about what it does and doesn't do. Pretending it isn't addictive is crazy.

Re: Marijuana Addicts (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43417083)

Reddit also has a community where people identify themselves as addicted to masturbation and go on and on about how not doing it anymore has made them all but superhuman. And that's not even getting into all the self diagnosed aspies. It's not a website very well geared to medical issues.

Re:Cry me a river, potheads. (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about a year ago | (#43417061)

Odd... Comparing the group of people I know who do MJ and the group of people I know that have BitCoins, they're quite distinct. Maybe 'cause the average dealer 'round here isn't too high tech either, probably he'll look at you with glossy eyes and go "duuuuuuuude... whatever, just put your bitcoins on the table there."

No time to post now... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416555)

...have to DDOS and byu cheap...

Get your numbers right (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416563)

Today's high was $266, the low was $105 and currently it is trading around $180

Re:Get your numbers right (4, Informative)

JesseMcDonald (536341) | about a year ago | (#43416717)

Today's high was $266, the low was $105 and currently it is trading around $180

Note that final figure. Despite the continued DDoS, the price is already halfway back to the previous high. The drop was just a short-term effect due to the impact of the DDoS on liquidity and a mild amount of panicked selling. Another point to keep in mind is that the price was under $15 at the beginning of January—even at the low of $105 we were still up by 600% YTD, and 200% over the last 30 days (from $35).

Re:Get your numbers right (1)

Goaway (82658) | about a year ago | (#43416933)

Note that final figure.

I am not sure why I should, since it is now $130.

Re:Get your numbers right (1)

number17 (952777) | about a year ago | (#43416995)

Those people who panic sold will probably not buy back in. If the people who caused the DDoS still have currency in Bitcoins, how much do they have and are they planning on selling tomorrow? When other exchanges are DDoS'ed it will be interesting to see if the price recovers again.

Re:Get your numbers right (1)

PRMan (959735) | about a year ago | (#43417109)

Bitfloor has also been up and down all day.

Re:Get your numbers right (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416867)

Groovy... so what's a tab of acid on Silk Road going to cost me, man?

Re:Get your numbers right (1)

hydrofix (1253498) | about a year ago | (#43416973)

Today's high was $266, the low was $105 and currently it is trading around $180

If that was directed at the submitter (underwritten), I put [slashdot.org] "over 250 USD" in the scoop, which covers $266. Also, I did not want to put a low value, because the market is very, very unstable right now. All that could be said was that MtGox was reporting 140 USD when the scoop was submitted.

Now the martket seems to be regaining, possibly with news that the fall was connected to a DDoS.

so... (0)

jswigart (1004637) | about a year ago | (#43416593)

what will it take for this failed experiment to be abandoned?

Re:so... (2)

fugas (619989) | about a year ago | (#43416637)

How exactly is this a failed experiment?

things are different this time... (3, Funny)

Thud457 (234763) | about a year ago | (#43416677)

au contrair, bitcoin is a raging success. it generates the <blink> LULZ </blink> every time some whiner bitches about what a useless waste of electricity it is.

full disclosure -- I too enjoy slagging on bitcoin with cheap shots.

Re:so... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416707)

what will it take for this failed experiment to be abandoned?

I'd like it to succeed just to see what happens.

Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole because I just don't quite understand it. I get it's an anonymous way of paying for things based on crypto keys and that more coin is "mined" by computers using an alogrithm, but that's about as far as my ability is to understand it. I saw the white paper and it went over my head - not smart enough Sherlock.

And to paraphrase Warren Buffet, 'I never invest in anything I don't understand.' He kept his billions out of the mortgage market while all the smart people were investing in CDOs. They then begged him for capital after the crash.

Just Say'in.

Re:so... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416817)

Cash is a scarce resource that can be exchanged for goods and services - but bankers keep printing more of it. They keep "inventing" more money... it's the major problem faced by Western nations. Bitcoin is scarce resource that can be exchanged for goods and services (not as many as cash but still) - but bankers cannot simply print more of it. You don't need to understand the maths... just realise that bitcoins are mathematically proven to be "scarce" and finite.

Re:so... (2)

Opportunist (166417) | about a year ago | (#43417075)

When I posted the same 2008 about the stock market crash, I was laughed at. Care to tell me the difference?

Bitcoin is a long term investmetn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416597)

Stop trying to predict the short-term market movement, and you'll do just fine.

Re:Bitcoin is a long term investmetn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416755)

Two words: toxic debt

Most recent Prices (0)

_Sharp'r_ (649297) | about a year ago | (#43416599)

And the most exchange rates at MtGOX [mtgox.com] are already back up to $200 after a big rally yesterday, so it's apparently correcting just fine for anyone who is looking to sell their bitcoins worth 10x or 100x what they used to be.

So yeah, Botcoins are subject to wild swings in exchange rates.

Re:Most recent Prices (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416659)

...and you've just got mtgox DDoS'ed again. Well played, Sir.

Bank speculators ... (4, Funny)

Alain Williams (2972) | about a year ago | (#43416603)

have found another target. Having bankrupted several major economies they are looking for virgin lands to grab.

Oh noes! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416609)

We've been set back by an entire four days!!1!1

Holy shit! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416627)

This is a harbinger of things to come, unfortunately. When the USA abandonded the gold standard, the end result was assured - detaching the dollar (or bitcoin) from anything of real physical value leads to the temptation to print more ... and more ... and more.

Unfortunatley, the way this story ends is in inflation, then hyperinflation, and then economic collapse with the only people left standing being the ones who were smart enough to own real, physical assets - farmland, gold, silver, palladium, platinum, and weapons.

Your money might be insured in a bank, but that will be of small comfort to you when your $250,000 is barely enough to purchase an economy car. And god help you if you have invested in bitcoins, god help you indeed. It may have been worth it to mine them when they were easy enough to mine, but as a store of value, they're worthless. They're worse than worthless.

Re: Storing Value (1)

SpaceManFlip (2720507) | about a year ago | (#43416805)

Yeah you're mostly right. I've been looking into ways to save, outside of the normally established ways, because they all seem to be in jeopardy given the days of recent past with events like the bank "Bail-Ins" in Cyprus where people lost their life savings.

The FDIC has signed off on a plan to "Bail-In" banks in the USA just like that, if they are considered Too Essential to the economy, and are about to fail.

Bitcoins could be a good way to move money out of a crashing currency model on a temporary-only basis. But in the long run, only things you can put your hands on and move with your body (or things like land that no body can move) are a safe bet.

as i've said many times (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416629)

bitcoins are a cyber criminal's dream come true.

Re:as i've said many times (2)

djmurdoch (306849) | about a year ago | (#43416689)

Since a record is made of every transaction, and is kept forever, do you really believe that the anonymity will be preserved?

Or maybe it was a bubble (4, Insightful)

Hentes (2461350) | about a year ago | (#43416675)

It's funny how people believe that their imaginary currency would have grown 10x in value in a few months weren't for those evil hackers.

High Frequency Trading in Bitcoins (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416683)

Ok, who's trading in Bitcoins with the server right next door to Mt.Gox?

bottleneck (4, Insightful)

Max DollarCash (2874161) | about a year ago | (#43416685)

The whole issue here is that there is just ONE major exchange and they own 80% of the trades. Hitting one exchange impact the whole currency. The exchange rate has been manipulated for weeks now. Its time for other exchanges to pop up or this will continue. Its easy money so they will keep doing it untill & unless there is multiple exchanges!

Re:bottleneck (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416823)

More exchanges might help.. I, for one, wouldn't be sending any of my real money to "Magic the Gathering Online eXchange".

Re:bottleneck (3, Interesting)

Linsaran (728833) | about a year ago | (#43416895)

There are multiple exchanges, it just happens that MtGox has the 'Microsoft monopoly'. They're the de facto standard, primarily because they were one of the first to hit the scene, their service is for the most part 'good enough', there was enough widespread adoption that people are familiar and comfortable with it, and there's no one else who's got something significantly better to entice people to switch.

Long-term view (5, Insightful)

Todd Knarr (15451) | about a year ago | (#43416733)

The solution's the standard one: take the long-term view. If you think Bitcoins are actually going to be worth that much long-term, don't sell. Hold onto them, and buy during the drops. If you think Bitcoins aren't worth their current value long-term, sell before another drop happens and don't buy back in. The speculators (because that's what's driving any manipulation) depend on people dumb enough to do short-term trading while lagging behind the curve. They're professionals with all the tools, so as a non-professional the only way you can win is to not play their game.

Rule of poker: there's always a sucker at the table. If you look around and don't see one, it's you.

Sounds like... (4, Funny)

Panaflex (13191) | about a year ago | (#43416749)

Either the Spanish Inquisition or Goldman Sachs. Either way, it sure was unexpected.

Re:Sounds like... (2)

Opportunist (166417) | about a year ago | (#43417107)

Unexpected, hardly. If you look at the graphs and the development of buy/sell orders, it's a bit of a miracle that it took so long.

talk (3, Insightful)

M0j0_j0j0 (1250800) | about a year ago | (#43416757)

you can talk the shit out of bitcoin you want, but this unregulated market may provide us with data about currencies that we never observed before, we can get real good data from this experiment.

Re:talk (4, Interesting)

Animats (122034) | about a year ago | (#43416955)

we can get real good data from this experiment.

From that perspective, Bitcoin is fascinating. The Bitcoin world, tiny though it is financially, has seen just about every classic scam. Ponzi/HYIP schemes, pump and dump schemes, fake bank schemes, fake exchange schemes, fake stocks, and ordinary theft - it's all there. It makes the penny stock market look legit.

Someday, assuming they haven't lost them, the people who generated Bitcoins in the early days when it was easy will cash out. Most of the early Bitcoins are not being traded. Somewhere there are early adopters with substantial value. They can't exit yet without clobbering the price, though. Not enough suckers putting in real money.

Re:talk (1)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about a year ago | (#43417079)

I suspect that's the only reason it has been allowed to persist as long as it has.

I find it hilarious... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416781)

...that the same Slashdot that was up in arms about the US instituting a reporting requirement on certain Bitcoin transactions seems to also be up in arms about Bitcoin currency manipulation.

If you want to be the completely anonymous, "no one can track us" currency, then this kind of manipulation is exactly what you're signing up for.

You know how they catch stock and commodity manipulators? Reporting requirements. Look at who sold/bought what before and after a major market moving event.

Just today (3, Informative)

fermion (181285) | about a year ago | (#43416787)

I was reading an article published yesterday about How to Buy a Bitcoin [slate.com] .

Really, once the general public is aware of 'get rich quick scheme' it is going to collapse.

I am not saying Bitcoins is such a scheme, just that some people interpret it as such. Currency speculation is not a good get rich quick scheme. It seems to best with people who have taxes in 30% range, or otherwise need to launder their money.

Occupy Mt. Gox (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416793)

People at the top are using technology to manipulate the value of assets. Let's setup some virtual tents and go light some shit bags on their doorstep.

Wow, 250 bucks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43416851)

Kinda makes me wish I hadn't wiped the system I had my original bitcoin wallet on, made back when CPU-based mining could do it in less than a week.

Even at 140, it'd have paid off.

Vulnerablity of single major channel (3, Interesting)

gman003 (1693318) | about a year ago | (#43416913)

MtGox owns too much of the Bitcoin conversion market. They need a solid competitor.

Right now, if you can harm MtGox, you harm the entire Bitcoin network. Slow it down and you slow down Bitcoin trades. Manipulate it and you manipulate the entire market. Regulate it and you regulate most of the market. Destroy it, and Bitcoin may completely die, at least in the short term.

I'm not saying any of this is MtGox's fault - they're doing a good job at what they do. But they're the closest thing Bitcoin has to a single point of failure. We need redundancy.

Re:Vulnerablity of single major channel (2)

Animats (122034) | about a year ago | (#43416971)

We need redundancy.

Most of the competing exchanges were scammers, incompetent, or both.

Re:Vulnerablity of single major channel (2)

sexconker (1179573) | about a year ago | (#43417091)

Right now, if you can harm MtGox, you harm the entire Bitcoin network.

If you can harm Mt.Gox, you can harm a group of idiotic Bitcoin speculators.
The Bitcoin network has nothing to do with Mt.Gox.

Real value? Hah (1)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about a year ago | (#43416915)

a loss of almost half in real value.

Thus proving (like any currency, ultimately) that they have no value.

Sold at 141, buying back at 142 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43417003)

Living life in the fast lane, volatility is fun.

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