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KLyDE: Lightweight KDE Desktop In the Making

timothy posted about a year ago | from the vs-klydesdale dept.

KDE 129

jrepin writes "During Hack Week 9 at SUSE, longtime KDE hacker Will Stephenson started working on a project codenamed KLyDE. This project's aim is to bring KDE Plasma to the lightweight desktop market. It applies KDE's strengths of modularity and configurability to the challenge of making a lightweight desktop." Better said, Stephenson was able to devote lots of time to it; he's been working on the project for a few years now.

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Fucking Faggots (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43437301)

Looks like the fucking faggots are at it again! Ban FAGGOT MARRIAGE once and for all!

Re:Fucking Faggots (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43438057)

Yeah, the MS astroturfers are all over this as usual.

It's impossible to have a sensible discussion about an interesting FOSS project without them squirting Ballmer-bile over the whole story.

Re:Fucking Faggots (1)

Tough Love (215404) | about a year ago | (#43438249)

Yeah, the MS astroturfers are all over this as usual.

It's impossible to have a sensible discussion about an interesting FOSS project without them squirting Ballmer-bile over the whole story.

The thought of ballmer juice squirting onto anything is enough to make me sick.

Re:Fucking Faggots (1)

crutchy (1949900) | about a year ago | (#43439157)

the astroturfers can't get enough of it... they just grovel at his feet jerking him off all day so they can get a taste of his googoo juice

it's sick and pathetic, but only to everyone else

maybe they need some "obamacare"

KDE and lightweight. (-1, Flamebait)

NemoinSpace (1118137) | about a year ago | (#43437319)

These are two words that don't go together. Not since day 1. Not now. Not ever.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (3)

MrEricSir (398214) | about a year ago | (#43437343)

These are two words that don't go together. Not since day 1. Not now. Not ever.

FTA: "Surely some mistake, you say? KDE and lightweight kan't fit in the same sentence. I think they can."

Re:KDE and lightweight. (5, Informative)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year ago | (#43437441)

Regardless of size, I recall seeing some performance tests on Phoronix showing KDE being significantly faster at pretty much everything than Unity and Gnome. That was a couple of releases ago, but it was pretty impressive.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (2, Insightful)

gagol (583737) | about a year ago | (#43437601)

My idea of lightweight do not include unity or any recent gnome desktop. compare against xfce or lxde... anything else is uselessly fat and slow.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (2)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | about a year ago | (#43437833)

So lightweight, to you, means size of the package, vs. code actually running?

Re:KDE and lightweight. (2)

gagol (583737) | about a year ago | (#43437851)

Lightweight means, runs very snappy on hardware less than 12 years old without discrete GPU...

Re:KDE and lightweight. (2)

armanox (826486) | about a year ago | (#43438177)

Modern Linux doesn't run right on hardware that old (and I don't just mean GNOME/KDE). Just try and run Fedora (or Ubuntu, etc) on a Pentium III with Intel i845 graphics. Driver support is no longer existent. You could try on 12yo hardware with real graphics, but I still don't think it'll work right (I hate KMS drivers).

Re:KDE and lightweight. (1)

gagol (583737) | about a year ago | (#43438219)

Look at this! http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/package/xorg-edgers/precise/main/base/xserver-xorg-video-intel [ubuntuupdates.org] A driver for i845 chipset. Not install this and try lxde on it.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (1)

armanox (826486) | about a year ago | (#43438821)

It's listed as "supported" but unless something has changed recently the X.org driver is broken on i8xx series. Features that used to be supported (like say, hardware rendering) were broken when I last checked (last tried about a year ago). Gave the same performance as the vesa driver.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (1)

armanox (826486) | about a year ago | (#43438855)

Re:KDE and lightweight. (0)

gagol (583737) | about a year ago | (#43438951)

Ok, compare lxde and kde on a vesa driver then. It still prove the point I wanted to make before you cherry picked this scenario.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about a year ago | (#43439273)

Yes, generally the i8xx series is kind of broken. Starting from i9xx, everything is premium though.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (1)

ozmanjusri (601766) | about a year ago | (#43438245)

Just try and run Fedora (or Ubuntu, etc) on a Pentium III with Intel i845 graphics. Driver support is no longer existent.

Huh?

I have Linux Mint Debian running on exactly the machine you're saying has no driver support. I upgraded the original 512MB RAM to 2.5GB with salvaged parts, but that's all. It's still a nice useful machine.

Lightweight means small, sometimes fast (1)

Morgaine (4316) | about a year ago | (#43438771)

It's clear what lightweight means just from examining its two parts: "light" and "weight" both allude to there not being much there, little mass or volume. The words are of course a physical metaphor when applied to software.

When something has little physical mass and volume then it tends to move fast for any given force, and so as a consequence we tend to associate "lightweight" also with higher speed, but it's only a consequence, not the primary meaning.

In software, being lightweight and being fast are properties that do not always track each other. As a first rule of thumb, smaller code tends to have more locality simply through being smaller, and hence it can run faster through producing fewer cache misses. However, small code is often somewhat dumb code, and a large and complex beast of a program can be designed to have greater locality in its innermost loops and hence to be more cache friendly and run faster. As a result it is hard to generalize whether lightweight also means fast. You have to examine each case separately.

As a counter-example to "lightweight == fast", the browser Midori is extremely lightweight (very small), consisting of little more than a simple graphic Gtk+ wrapper around webkit. Firefox in contrast is a huge monster of a program and could never ever be called lightweight. However, Firefox runs much faster than Midori, because its designers have used its complexity very productively to make its performance top notch.

So, you really can't generalize beyond observing that smaller programs load faster from disk and, everything else being equal, tend to have better cache locality and hence higher speed. However. heavier programs can buck this general rule by using more complex designs and algorithms to boost their runspeed.

Re:Lightweight means small, sometimes fast (1)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | about a year ago | (#43439191)

And indeed, in the case of the much-maligned akonadi, of course, having a file based storage is faster, for the first hundred or so mails.

But when you accounts have tens of thousands, or hundred of thousands of mails, a database is a requirement. Either you are coding industrial-strength stuff, or you are building a toy :)

Re:Lightweight means small, sometimes fast (1)

dbIII (701233) | about a year ago | (#43439299)

What about all that shit encumbered by toy databases (MS Exchange until not so long ago according to the apologists that say it's all fixed now)? Nearly any other solution is better than that. Also what about file based storage with an index?

Re:Lightweight means small, sometimes fast (1)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | about a year ago | (#43439331)

Do you have any idea how many mails one can have? Indexed file based storage does not scale. Although to be fair, akonadi does not care what the underlying storage is, it simply acts as a cache.

A cache to access structured relational data. Lots of it.

A database.

People just _think_ databases are really heavy objects, but really, they are just faster than reading files :) I strongly suspect that if instead of saying "this is a separate app/utility" the kde pim people had just hidden the stuff inside of kontact, no-one would have complained. They would just have said "gee kmail is faster now!"

Because it is. Faster.

Re:Lightweight means small, sometimes fast (1)

dbIII (701233) | about a year ago | (#43439349)

Do you have any idea how many mails one can have?

If you've got more than 4GB per file in a mailbox you are doing it wrong. Anything beyond date, subject, to and from is going to need a fairly global search anyway.

Re:Lightweight means small, sometimes fast (2)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | about a year ago | (#43439383)

It's not the byte size. It's the number of objects. Also you forgot, senders. status (can be fairly complicated -- where is the data, for example), attachments. Threads. Lists.

Oh, and the full text should be indexed. We live in 2013 after all.

Basically, unless you are going to confine yourself to the performance and possibilities of pine, you have to do what the KDE guys did. And yes, it is harder and takes longer to debug.

Re:Lightweight means small, sometimes fast (2)

dbIII (701233) | about a year ago | (#43439831)

Also you forgot, senders

That's what the "from" is supposed to indicate. I wish people would read before they reply :(
The stupid fad of doing everything with a database is one reason why I was running a print server for a vector graphics format on a 40MHz SparcStation 10 until 2010 when it was getting better performance than a 2GHz linux box running an updated version of the software - about two minutes per plot versus three and a half (for 42 inches by about ten feet). I've since, thanks to a few tweaks, managed to get the original software running on Solaris10 for Sparc (on a Netra I got for $80, 1.5GHz or so) and its down to under thirty seconds, once again just doing the fucking job instead of farming out an entirely sequential task to a relational database it doesn't need.

Email is mostly sequential as well and when it isn't you get a similar performance hit searching through a small number of indexed files as you get with a database and with far less fragility (although most databases are more robust than the with the sickly child running MS Exchange). When mbox stuffs up you have dozens of options. When a strange database format understood by three people stuffs up (why don't they just use mysql, postgress etc) you are screwed.

Re:Lightweight means small, sometimes fast (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about a year ago | (#43439379)

Indexed file based storage does not scale.

Yes, because databases are never stored in files. Do you really use raw block access to store your e-mails?

Files generally do whatever you make them do. Perhaps you were making them do the wrong thing?

Re:Lightweight means small, sometimes fast (2)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | about a year ago | (#43439395)

The point is that the file-based indexing is the wrong thing. Of course everything ends up being stored in a file.

The key is not the storage, but the indexing. And that is where DBs are vastly superior to flat files.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (2)

AvitarX (172628) | about a year ago | (#43440211)

Lxde is terrible IMO. The menus just don't feel like they work right. I had similar issues with black box.

xfce though is fantastic, buy I wouldn't want to run it with 2001 ram levels (though I can't think of any apps I use that'd I'd want to do that with).

Re:KDE and lightweight. (0)

Noitatsidem (1701520) | about a year ago | (#43437615)

openbox is faster.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (2)

ButchDeLoria (2772751) | about a year ago | (#43438255)

Openbox + tint2 + Compton is love.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (5, Insightful)

JoeMerchant (803320) | about a year ago | (#43437669)

Lightweight is no longer about size... cheap systems are coming with 8GB of Flash and 2GB of RAM these days.

What's important is speed on relatively (400MHz) slow/weak low power processor cores.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (4, Informative)

martin-boundary (547041) | about a year ago | (#43438401)

Except speed and size are highly correlated. Computer architectures are still designed in such a way that if you use as little RAM as possible, and have a small computation footprint that's highly localized, then your performance skyrockets. So the available 2GB RAM is irrelevant - if you actually make full use of it, you'll be running a lot slower than if you can fit everything you need to do in 4K.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43438441)

Using your RAM makes your computer slower? You're joking, right? The major issue is how much your code causes cache misses.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (2)

martin-boundary (547041) | about a year ago | (#43438551)

Yup, and how big are L1 caches? 32KB or so? RAM is the new disk. Don't use it unless you have to.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (1)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | about a year ago | (#43439205)

If your desktop software performance depends on cache optimisation, you are either doing heavy-duty multimedia editing, or doing something spectacularly wrong.

Also rant: cache sizes have been going down to make place for more processors. I personally do numerical calculations, and I find this trend to be a disaster. At this point, my only hope is that eventually, with thousands of cores on chips, we'll be back to something which looks like a vector processor.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (2)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about a year ago | (#43439389)

If your desktop software performance depends on cache optimisation, you are either doing heavy-duty multimedia editing, or doing something spectacularly wrong.

Or perhaps he's doing graph algorithms [sourceforge.net] . You know, most things profit from good memory access patterns these days. Your CPU can execute something like 2000 instructions in the time needed for a single random read from the main memory!

Re:KDE and lightweight. (1)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | about a year ago | (#43439403)

'cause that is clearly a desktop-oriented application...

Re:KDE and lightweight. (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about a year ago | (#43439887)

'cause that is clearly a desktop-oriented application...

Well, granted, if you're only using simple applications, a ten year old machine will do the job anyway.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | about a year ago | (#43440581)

The time X space trade-off is one of the basic concepts of optmization theory.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (1)

Tough Love (215404) | about a year ago | (#43438259)

Regardless of size, I recall seeing some performance tests on Phoronix showing KDE being significantly faster at pretty much everything than Unity and Gnome. That was a couple of releases ago, but it was pretty impressive.

Except for kmail/akonadi, an unmitigated disaster.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (1)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | about a year ago | (#43439211)

I actually works well for me and has for a while. It used to be that first-time-loading of IMAP folder was slow, but now, even very large folder load just fine on my netbook.

It's not perfect, though: replied/attachment state of emails stored on an MS exchange IMAP server gets lost. Oh, well, they are aware, and it will get fixed.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (1)

Tough Love (215404) | about a year ago | (#43440589)

Try to receive 500 mails a day with it. This used to be no problem. Try to do anything with a large folder. Thunderbird is at least ten times faster, somethings 100 or 1000 times faster, and infinitely less buggy.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (1)

NemoinSpace (1118137) | about a year ago | (#43437563)

I bet it could be even faster if you run it from a console and skip that pesky startx command too.
Look I'm not knocking the guy's efforts. But who are ya gonna believe? Me or some random Slashdot article?

Re:KDE and lightweight. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43438095)

Microsoft?

Oh, same thing.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43437961)

Medusa said you're a Micro$oft shill. Don't fool with Medusa, motherfucker.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (1)

bmo (77928) | about a year ago | (#43438113)

Oh wow, I am so informed by this insightful and thoughtful comment.

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

--
BMO

Re:KDE and lightweight. (2)

armanox (826486) | about a year ago | (#43438185)

KDE 1.x ran fine on my Pentium I 120MHz with 48MB RAM, 1MB Cirrus Logic graphics and a 1GB HDD.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (4, Informative)

sgunhouse (1050564) | about a year ago | (#43438747)

Already been several mini-distros (the whole system is under 100 MB) that do use KDE. Things like Nimblex come to mind, though that's been a few years ago now. Admittedly not sure they kept Plasma though ...

But as KDE is supposed to be able to run on phones now, it should be easy enough.

Re:KDE and lightweight. (1)

Carewolf (581105) | about a year ago | (#43439409)

Plasma is not a problem. The trick about KDE on low end hardware is to know if you should run KWin effects using XRender, OpenGL or disabled. I would usually bet on disabled, but XRender can be surprisingly well optimized on old GPUs.

Give me functional over flashy/lightweight/simple (2)

CoolGopher (142933) | about a year ago | (#43438981)

A handful of years ago I ended up switching from a custom window manager / desktop setup (WindowMaker based, if you care) to Gnome2. The driver for this was simply effort required to get something useful running in a short amount of time. As a developer I'm not getting paid to faff around with getting a desktop environment up and running. Gnome served me well, and even convinced me to switch away from xterm/uxterm. On a fresh Ubuntu install, all I needed was a few tweaks to the terminal config, a keyboard shortcut or two (launch terminal + virtual desktop switching), and I could feel "home" enough to be productive. Fantastic.

== Caution: incoming rant. ==

However, as of a few months ago I'm back to using WindowMaker. Why? Because of the unholy fustercluck which is known as Ubuntu / Unity / Gnome3. I had a perfectly fine desktop environment running on my 10.04 install. After upgrading to the next LTS release, my entire desktop was, to put it mildly, fubared. Whoever thought they were entitled to completely replace a user's desktop environment, and not provide a fallback option is worthy of being C-level at EA.

Even after manually adding "gnome-shell" back to the system to try to get my desktop environment back in a working order, I discovered that my keyboard short-cut settings were gone, as were half my panels and virtual desktops. Evicting the gnome-shell and loading up MATE didn't improve the situation (it kept missing keyboard shortcuts, amongst other issues). I tried KDE, but it was, quite frankly, far too "flashy" for me. Oh, and the screenlock refused to work. After having spent over a day trying to get my workstation back into a state where I could actually _work_, I said "stuff it" and installed WindowMaker, grabbed a few dock-apps by source, hacked my xsession to configure my dual-screen setup, set up the ssh-agent, xlock, etc etc. I really haven't missed having to do all of that manually, but by golly, right now there doesn't seem to be an easily usable alternative!

I've installed my last Ubuntu system, that's for sure.

Here endeth rant.

Re:Give me functional over flashy/lightweight/simp (2)

jones_supa (887896) | about a year ago | (#43439291)

How about Xubuntu?

more like (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43439417)

how about debian + openbox?

seriously, I do java and php development and have had squeeze installed since it went stable. Currently have iceweasel 20 and linux 3.2 kernel from backports as well and haven't met a hitch that wasn't self-induced yet (touches wood)

Re:Give me functional over flashy/lightweight/simp (1)

dbIII (701233) | about a year ago | (#43439315)

CentOS still has that old environment. Of course you can't run the new gimp locally at the same time due to the gnome people managing to bring something very much like DLL hell to *nix for the first time since linux was thought of.

Re:Give me functional over flashy/lightweight/simp (1)

akanouras (1431981) | about a year ago | (#43440193)

...Oh, and the screenlock refused to work. After having spent over a day trying to get my workstation back into a state where I could actually _work_, I said "stuff it" and installed WindowMaker, grabbed a few dock-apps by source, hacked my xsession to configure my dual-screen setup, set up the ssh-agent, xlock, etc etc. I really haven't missed having to do all of that manually, but by golly, right now there doesn't seem to be an easily usable alternative!

I've installed my last Ubuntu system, that's for sure.

Just a wild ass guess here, but it sounds like you were hacking on a Debian-based system as if it was Slackware. This [debian.org] may be helpful if you decide to give it another chance.

P.S. Switching to a different theme is a good and fast way to wipe all the flashiness off KDE (and especially Plasma) in short order. I must admit though, it's the first time I've heard of Oxygen described as flashy.

Cool (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43437321)

Removing the more bloated 'features' KDE is laden with by default would get most of us there. I suspect 99% of KDE users would be just fine without the Akonadi MySQL instance in their home directory.

Re:Cool (0)

Ruede (824831) | about a year ago | (#43437561)

word

i dont even know what that shit is good for.

or that crap with kmail2. messing up threaded view where mails are linked to each other that have absolutely to do with each other. (different conversations)

Re:Cool (2)

Walzmyn (913748) | about a year ago | (#43437781)

99% of us have disabled that damned thing as soon as we installed. The rest should.

Re:Cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43438991)

It almost works in 4.10. Well, it does work and with 4.10.1 hasn't crashed even once but tagging is rough, for example, finding stuff by tag isn't actually that user friendly and Gwenview almost never finds all of the pictures with the given tag while Dolphin does provided you manage to make it actually search by tags. And tags really need relations between them e.g. if I tag something with motorcycle then vehicle tag should be implied. And tags aren't used enough anywhere, I have loads of tags, Nepomuk ought to have also parsed already tagged stuff such as music metadata yet I don't see the DE recommending me songs to go with family photos.

Re:Cool (1)

fromhell091 (1572879) | about a year ago | (#43439283)

I read a moths ago that in KDE 4.11, they are going to introduce functions to implement Metadata Web-Extraction, to automagically retrieve tags to your music, video and so on, from services like imdb, last.fm, etc...

Re:Cool (1)

Viol8 (599362) | about a year ago | (#43440255)

Oh fucking wonderful. Now the damn desktop is going to be doing its own thing on the net. Why can't the people who design these things just stop it with the stupid feature creep? If they've run out of sensible things to add perhaps thats a sign to Move On.

Re:Cool (1)

Tough Love (215404) | about a year ago | (#43438265)

Removing the more bloated 'features' KDE is laden with by default would get most of us there. I suspect 99% of KDE users would be just fine without the Akonadi MySQL instance in their home directory.

For me it is Akonadi + Postgres which sucks slightly less but it still sucks enormously.

Re:Cool (1)

Parker Lewis (999165) | about a year ago | (#43439903)

I was about to say the same. Disabling Akonadi, Nepomunk (even it's lighter now, still delays my desktop login in a lot of seconds) and a lot of Krunner plugins, and configuring KDE Effects to be "Very Fast" will produces a incredible fasting desktop. Additionally, KDE 4.10 improved a lot on this.

Re:Cool (1)

Rob Y. (110975) | about a year ago | (#43440447)

Simple config
Is a mixture of usability and perception. A simplified configuration presents fewer choices and is therefore easier to understand. It also looks faster and more lightweight, because people equate visual simplicity with efficiency. This is incorrect, of course, but I'm not above exploiting this fallacy to give people what they want. For this aspect, we're providing an alternate set of System Settings metadata to give it a cut down tree. The full set remains available, if needed.

This could be his biggest contribution, and - if it's done well - mainline KDE should consider adopting it as an option. For all of KDE's configurability, the thing that would be nicest to configure is the configurability itself. Something like 'lock desktop configuration', where once you have the system set up the way you want it, you never see all those options again - unless you ask to.

Why? (2)

BluPhenix316 (2656403) | about a year ago | (#43437353)

KDE Lightweight = Razor-QT, it's already been done MATE. ;-)

Re:Why? (5, Informative)

kangsterizer (1698322) | about a year ago | (#43437507)

Razor QT is a light, QT based DE.
KDE is also using QT, but is an entirely different DE. Razor is not KDE. You can't start plasma widgets on Razor. You don't have the KDE libs either.

KlyDE is actually compatible with large parts of KDE, specifically, plasma.

Re:Why? (1)

armanox (826486) | about a year ago | (#43438867)

MATE would be more analogous to TDE, not RazorQT.

KDE and GNOME (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43437475)

are for people that want linux to be windowsified.

Real h4x0r5 use the CLI. Anything else is just n00b. I'm browsing slashdot and posting with lynx, because I'm 1337.

Re:KDE and GNOME (2)

gagol (583737) | about a year ago | (#43437629)

What about blackbox and awesomewm? Are you shades of grey blind?

Re:KDE and GNOME (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43437925)

i3!

Re:KDE and GNOME (1)

armanox (826486) | about a year ago | (#43438157)

How about SGI's 4DWM [5dwm.org] or CDE? [sourceforge.net]

Re:KDE and GNOME (1)

dbIII (701233) | about a year ago | (#43439319)

I usually bring up CDE every time somebody goes on about how linux needs the same common interface for everyone to match the restrictions on MS. Funny thing is I haven't heard anyone pushing that line since Win8 came out :)

Re:KDE and GNOME (1)

armanox (826486) | about a year ago | (#43439959)

Yeah, so much for the "Common" Desktop.

Market (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43437485)

People buy KDE installs now?

fp Cock (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43437511)

Re:fp Cock (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43437571)

Why does goat.cx still only have the pumpkin? Is the .cx domain still bitching about inappropriate content?

This effort could be spent better! (1, Flamebait)

bogaboga (793279) | about a year ago | (#43437593)

While I applaud the programmer's efforts, I must say that it's efforts like these in the Open Source Community, that end up as wasted!

You see, everyone who is talented, ends up "doing their thing," resulting in duplication and waste. One wonders why the talent of this programmer doesn't get absorbed into the larger KDE project. What would the harm be?

Re:This effort could be spent better! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43437641)

Will has been contributing to KDE for many, many years and was on the OpenSUSE KDE team until quite recently. There's a lot of work by Will in various KDE projects, and when this is ready for prime time I am sure it will also appear in some form in shipping product.

Re:This effort could be spent better! (4, Interesting)

oneandoneis2 (777721) | about a year ago | (#43439455)

That's not how it works.

You're making an assumption that a developer will devote the same amount of time and enthusiasm to any project, and therefore any "Me-too" development is a loss to an established project.

That's more or less how it works in commercial development - you have a developer working 8 hours a day on whatever project you give him. It's not how it works in FOSS, which is actually a selfish development model: you work on whatever you want, as much as you want.

It's better to have someone sit down & bang out a yet another variant of X than to have them not turn out anything at all. The new version of X might be enough of an improvement to attract other developers and get you a new killer product. Not doing anything will result in nothing.

He wants to build a lightweight KDE, so he goes off and writes some code and with any luck creates a working KLyDE WM. If he tried to do this within KDE itself, he'd hit a load of politics and entrenched views and spend all his time arguing. He'd get nothing done. Nobody wins.

What you see as duplication and waste is a vital and useful part of FOSS development. Your recommended alternative would result in stagnation as people stop working on what interests them to fight against each other to drive existing projects towards their vision.

That's what the harm would be.

Re:This effort could be spent better! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43440647)

You exhibit a deep lack of understanding of how FOSS development works.

Go do some research.

So What Components wont be there then? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43437765)

To make a lighter KDE, you have to use less code, so while this sounds good in theory its impossible unless you leave out whole lilbrarys of stuff you may not need. Then if you need it you can call it up from the repostitory. So in effect you could make a lighter version but then as you add programs that need components you dont have,just add them back in and then you have the same bloated mess.

Same on gnome, download Kate and you get half of KDE desktop as part of the deal, nothing you can do about it unless you choose a different application to use.

KDE and lightweight is an oxymoron.

LOL? Give up already freetards. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43437881)

OS X has won. Why do prolong the slow death of the linux desktop needlessly? Wouldn't your time be better spent writing software for OS X so that actual people you know, USE, it?

Re:LOL? Give up already freetards. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43438169)

you mean the OSX that is a spiffy UI on a freetard OS, and people USE OSX?

laughing my fucking ass off

Re:LOL? Give up already freetards. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43440371)

If OS X was free and open source (at least to the amount my linux system at the moment is) I'd *begin* to consider it.

To use the same "matter of fact" tone you are:

The goal was to develop an open system that meets my needs. Linux has won.

So . . . (0)

hduff (570443) | about a year ago | (#43437937)

So the Kool Ly Desktop Environment?

Makes no sense.

Re:So . . . (1)

HatofPig (904660) | about a year ago | (#43438637)

"Klyde."

It would be a catchy name if he didn't mess around with the letter casing.

Re:So . . . (1)

hduff (570443) | about a year ago | (#43439601)

"Klyde."

It would be a catchy name if he didn't mess around with the letter casing.

I was actually making fun of the original meaning of the acronym. Yes, it was actually called the "Kool Desktop Environment" before the founder wised up.

Perhaps "kLYde" would better suggest the new name ?

Modularity (1)

puddingebola (2036796) | about a year ago | (#43438033)

If KDE's "modularity" makes it faster, when will I start to see these modules in my favorite Linux distros.

Grace. if you, thought Gregory`s (-1, Troll)

AlexSeanQ (2895547) | about a year ago | (#43438069)

Grace. if you, thought Gregory`s st0rry is impressive, on friday I got themselves a Audi Quattro from having made $4864 this last 5 weeks and over 10-k this past munth. it's certainly the coolest work I have ever done. I started this five months/ago and immediately started to make minimum $77 per-hour. I went to this web-site,, WWW.BIC4.COM

Yu0 oFail It (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43438099)

and suggesting support GNAA, 7he developer 'superior' machine. Outreach are isn't a lemonade Talk to one of the is not prone to a GAY NIGGER That has lost 'superior' machine. another special Baby take my you got there. Or Usenet is roughly Pro-homosexual

Good to go lightweight (1)

houghi (78078) | about a year ago | (#43438967)

I think it is good that he did this. Not just to make KDE lightweight. There are DEs that are lighter, but that he did it.

This is what hacking is about: because he can.

There is too much fragmentation on the Linux Disto (0)

thelukester (2722207) | about a year ago | (#43439055)

I've been using Linux since Slackware in 98 and CDE on Solaris before that. I hate to admit that for past 4 years, my primary OS has been win7 and OS X to do my much of my work on Linux servers. why? I need a Desktop Envirment with a consistent UI that's free of bugs.

A classic example of this is back in '08 I switched to a 16:9 monitor. Well thanks to a 6 year old bug in gnome #86382 this rendered gnome unusable for me.

Unfortunately this was also about the time KDE 4 was released. After giving a dozen other DEs a shot, I joined the the dark side.

To this day that 11 year old gnome bug remains unpatched. In an Apple or MS OS this kind of major usability issue would never make it out if Alpha never mind a "stable" release.

In the early days of Linux when It was for hackers by hackers this was acceptable and expected. They want to add cool features not fix bugs. Fine.

  But now there's some serious money in Linux. Between Redhat and Ubuntu How the Linux Desktop can remain in such a sorry state. And I fail to see how another fork will make this situation any better.

Sorry for any grammar errors/typos, this message was written on my phone in topically useless all hands meeting.

Funny thing is that since 1998 (1)

dbIII (701233) | about a year ago | (#43439341)

Funny thing is that since 1998 I've been using Enlightenment 16, it's still available and I still use it as my work desktop. There's a few others from then still in use as well. Your consistent UI has been there all along while MS and even Apple changed a few times.
Thus I don't think your suggested complaint is the reason for your post - it looks instead that you are trying unsuccessfully to find a means to fit your goal of a bit of bashing.

Re:Funny thing is that since 1998 (1)

thelukester (2722207) | about a year ago | (#43439785)

Yes, Enlightenment is one of the best Desktops for Linux. If it only had the more developer support, it would be my desktop of choice. If just one Linux DE had the polish of a OS X or Win7, I wouldn't care. Until then, I see this fork as just diluting an already over stretched pool of developers.

By consistency I meant disign consistency. I was thinking of annoyances like the app menu bars in Unity.

There's a lot of garbage to throw out... (1)

alukin (184606) | about a year ago | (#43439119)

Well, It' very good idea to have KDE without Akonadi and Nepomuk. Only this can make KDE lightweight. :)) That are the parts I always turn off and I'd love to get rid of entirely. MySQL is another piece of shit that must be cleaned out. If some developer needs "select my,shit from config where other=shit and blahbalbal" to read simple app config, then it's clinic. I used Kmail for years and when it started to use mysql and Akonady I switched to Thinderbird because I do not need all this smartass stuff done by e-mail client in background. So, there's a lot of stuff to simplify in KDE.
But "Less tuning" sounds as not good idea because users love KDE of it's flexibility.

Re:There's a lot of garbage to throw out... (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | about a year ago | (#43439873)

Well, KDE has always been nicely configurable. I simply turn off all the cruft I don't need and Nepomuk is always the first thing to go and I never even install Kmail in the first place. Complaining about it is pointless, since turning it off is a simple click of the mouse.

Re:There's a lot of garbage to throw out... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43440989)

As a Gentoo user running KDE, I don't have nepomunk or mysql installed. All I have is the kdebase-meta, kdeadmin-meta, kate, kuickshow, krename and skanlite and it runs quite nicely for me. This provides 90 percent of the KDE requirements w/o the nepomunk crap plus it runs faster.

Of the single packages I've installed, I'm using kate as my primary editor, skanlite for my scanner, kuickshow is also installed for dealing with images plus I'm using VLC for media playback (handles everything I've tossed at it) with firefox-lts (10.0.11) and sylpheed for email. In all truthfulness, there's little extra that I actually need so what I've got is about as lean as possible at less then 40G for the / /boot /usr /var partitions. /home isn't included in that as it seems to grow by leaps and bounds for some reason. Guess I have to take the clothes hangers out to get it back down in size.

Again, a bad name. (2)

DerPflanz (525793) | about a year ago | (#43439237)

No one will be able to spell your product name correctly if you use a weird combination of upper and lower case letters.

You don't need to focus on the fact that it is a DE. In fact, you already decided that when you came up with a name, instead of an acronym. Make a choice: is it an acronym, or a proper name? You can't have both, it confuses.

Just name it "Klyde".

Re:Again, a bad name. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43440337)

It's a codename not the final product.

Back in the day (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43439485)

KDE 3.0 happily ran on 64MB of ram, with a pentium III, and walked 15 miles to school. If Linux really wants to cut into the end of life of XP markets they should look at old versions of Linux first

Now off my lawn, and this post sent from my Windows 8 pro workstation with 24GB of ram.

KDE Low Fat Settings (1)

Parker Lewis (999165) | about a year ago | (#43439915)

Will this be different than the Kubuntu meta package "Low Fat Settings"?
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