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Protesting Animal Testing, Intruders Vandalize Italian Lab

timothy posted 1 year,7 hours | from the matter-of-priorities dept.

Medicine 285

ananyo writes "Activists occupied an animal facility at the University of Milan, Italy, at the weekend, releasing mice and rabbits and mixing up cage labels to confuse experimental protocols. Researchers at the university say that it will take years to recover their work. Many of the animals at the facility are genetic models for psychiatric disorders such as autism and schizophrenia. Some of the mice removed by activists were delicate mutants and immunosuppressed 'nude' mice, which die very quickly outside controlled environments. No arrests have been made following the 12-hour drama, which took place on Saturday, although the university says that it will press charges against the protesters. The attack was staged by the animal-rights group that calls itself Fermare Green Hill (or Stop Green Hill), in reference to the Green Hill dog-breeding facility near Brescia, Italy, which it targets for closure."

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285 comments

28DaysLater (5, Funny)

phyr (586855) | 1 year,7 hours | (#43525425)

Haven't we learned anything from the movies... this is how the zombie apocalypse begins

Re:28PostsLater (5, Funny)

Dareth (47614) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525731)

"Haven't we learned anything from the movies... this is how the zombie apocalypse begins"

Nope, still not funny. Will check back in 28 weeks.

Re:28DaysLater (2)

Dancindan84 (1056246) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525985)

Many of the animals at the facility are genetic models for psychiatric disorders such as autism and schizophrenia.

Kind of like the rage virus from 28 days later, except it's going to unleash an epidemic of people rocking in the corner and talking to themselves.

Assholes (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 hours | (#43525441)

Those guys are total fucking assholes.

Re:Assholes (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525661)

I bet most of them suffer from some kind psychiatric disorder.

Re:Assholes (0)

benjfowler (239527) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526299)

In London, we have a fucking plague of them.

The previous Labour government paid a lot of lip-service to reining in animal rights extremism. Unfortunately, the government has gone soft, and they are still at large, destroying stuff, attacking people and causing a lot of public nuisance.

Our animal rights extremists are so bad, they are exporting terror across the Atlantic and the US authorities have taken interest in the 'animal rights movement' here in the UK. Unfortunately, our government is asleep at the wheel, and the idiots are too busy riding their personal student-political hobby horses to deal with real, serious real world issues, like jailing animal rights terrorists.

Re:Assholes (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526523)

Stop throwing around the word "terror, " the word has already been rendered meaningless by so much media misoveruse. It's garden variety vandalism. We already have laws on the books to deal with that.

Re:Assholes (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526049)

Exactly my thoughts. Who would breed animals who's only purpose is to suffer?

Re:Assholes (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526117)

Inner City residents?

Terrorists?

Re:Assholes (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526557)

Exactly my thoughts. Who would breed animals who is only purpose is to suffer?

That's not why they are bred and you damn well know it, dickhead. And as far as any "suffering", many of them live a life of luxury by animal standards.
If you're not willing to completely abandon ALL modern medicines and procedures, then you're a hypocrite plain and simple.

Re:Assholes (1)

jythie (914043) | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526587)

Eh, depending on one's ethics, that can be said for either side. Both have good intentions that are, unfortunately, mutually exclusive with the other.

Animal Cruelty (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 hours | (#43525481)

Hmm... perhaps among the charges should be animal cruelty for exposing the immunosuppressed animals to pathogens that will likely kill them in rather painful manners.

Re:Animal Cruelty (5, Insightful)

The Archon V2.0 (782634) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525623)

Hah.... Problem is, for the nuts that do this it doesn't matter if the animals live or die. Either they're "saved from a worse fate" in the lab, or it's "the scientists who made them like this" so their existence is already unnatural or they're even "martyrs to the cause", but it's a flimsy justification for wanting to bust up someone's workplace without running into the level of security to be found in the average factory or office complex.

Ultimately, it's not that they like animals. It's that they hate people.

Re:Animal Cruelty (0, Troll)

BasilBrush (643681) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525755)

Ultimately, it's not that they like animals. It's that they hate people.

No doubt they hate our freedom too. And they eat babies. And other such ignorant things we can say about groups of people we don't know.

Re:Animal Cruelty (1)

Synerg1y (2169962) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525777)

It's people like in TFA that make this particular POV group look bad, and it's not like this is the first time animal lovers have attacked people or anything.

Re:Animal Cruelty (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526043)

I've never encountered a single "animal rights" group member who didn't make the whole lot of them look bad. They pretty much uniformly don't give a rat's ass about the well-being of any animal they encounter, and are only really concerned with their ability to push people around and make demands. If they didn't have the dubious banner of "animal rights" to scream at people under, they'd find some other reason, and act exactly the same way.

As an example, in the city of Windsor, Ontario, there was a group of animal rights idiots who routinely protested circuses that were brought into town, claiming that all sorts of "animal cruelty" was being perpetrated, and sending death threats to anyone involved with the show. In the span of 20 years, there was indeed one case of animal cruelty - perpetrated by the leader of the animal rights protesters, as she kept a dog muzzled (so it couldn't pant to cool off) and didn't even give it water, while standing out on hot pavement with no shade in 28 degree (C) weather for eight hours. It's no wonder the Canadian government has most of these people watch-listed as members of terrorist organizations.

Re:Animal Cruelty (2)

Synerg1y (2169962) | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526421)

That's sad to hear as they sell muzzles that allow a dog to both pant and still keep it from biting someone. In addition, it is my understanding that most of these people have experienced 0 hardship in life thanks to daddy, so a deeply embedded lack of empathy comes as no surprise.

Re:Animal Cruelty (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526345)

I don't know if this is a problem in the country where you live but where I live there have been an incident where an animal right group hid crushed glass in meat based food. (Chickens in this case.)
Since I don't really think that there are that many activists who are willing to break laws to this extent I suspect that it's the same kind of people who would break in to release those animals.
I don't think that they really mean any harm but rather that they don't think of the consequences. The former incident could have caused the death of several humans and fits pretty much every description of terrorism. (Except the one that requires them to be Muslims.)
This time everything turned out OK but what happens when they do it to a lab that is trying to find a cure for HIV or is trying to find antibiotics that are effective against resistant strains? Considering the possible danger to society it could be justified to use lethal force to prevent such an incident to happen.

They might not eat babies but I'm pretty sure you can trick them into doing it if it was for a good cause.

Re:Animal Cruelty (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525881)

I know it's common rhetoric to accuse them of "hating people", but it's simply not the case. They believe that animal testing is morally wrong, and that it's sufficiently wrong as to justify direct action, namely trespassing, vandalism and theft. Their target is clearly the institution of animal research, not the particular animals.

If you want to combat a view or group of people with a view, try to understand them first, rather than trying to score cheap rhetorical points like your "hate people" comment.

There's good arguments to be made here - try making them! You might just change something.

Re:Animal Cruelty (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526097)

Sorry anon, they're not misunderstood, they're just misanthropes.
Their target isn't any institution, it's making themselves feel "big" and "important" by hurting others. Of the groups I've encountered, many have connections to other violent protest groups, and long criminal records. Some of the newbies might be innocents that got dragged into it without realizing what they were getting into, but most of those either see what's going on and quit, or join in and become just as bad.

Re:Animal Cruelty (2)

gl4ss (559668) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526233)

I know it's common rhetoric to accuse them of "hating people", but it's simply not the case. They believe that animal testing is morally wrong, and that it's sufficiently wrong as to justify direct action, namely trespassing, vandalism and theft. Their target is clearly the institution of animal research, not the particular animals.

If you want to combat a view or group of people with a view, try to understand them first, rather than trying to score cheap rhetorical points like your "hate people" comment.

There's good arguments to be made here - try making them! You might just change something.

it's entirely possible he knows a bunch of similar minded people and has come to the conclusion that they hate people from that.. and that they love publicity. you just forgot from your list that they view their goals justifying animal cruelty as well, to stop animal cruelty. it's a stereotype but once someone crosses the line into that it's ok to hurt someone in order to save the little bunny wabbits then usually they're just batshit insane to deal with in any normal confrontation situation where some kind of compromise might be needed. these guys are italian to boot!

what I'd like to know that if they're willing to go to prison, why didn't they bust up the place that their movement is named after.. now it's like me protesting against shell drilling in niger delta by flinging bags of poo at the norwegian parliament - sure on some level it makes some sense but does nothing to advance the goal.

Re:Animal Cruelty (1)

war4peace (1628283) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526295)

How strongly do they believe animal testing is morally wrong? Enough to offer themselves as test subjects? If not, then they should just GTFO, because what they're doing reeks "I need attention so I'm smashing stuff to get it". It's just attention junkies needing a fix.

Re:Animal Cruelty (3, Insightful)

digitrev (989335) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526297)

So they believe animal testing is morally wrong. Why? Is that a root belief, or does that derive from some other belief. For example, I believe that the anti-vaccination group is wrong, not in and of itself, but because I believe that 1) anti-vaccination propaganda leads to reduced vaccination rates, 2) reduced vaccination rates leads to more dead or crippled children, and 3) I believe in improving the quality of life for people where it is possible and the risks and side-effects are negligible. That is to say, there are several other things that lead me to believe that anti-vaccination teachings are morally wrong.

So if they believe a priori that animal testing is wrong, then I'll argue with them there. But surely they have to have a deeper reason than that. I mean, I can easily see the argument that animal testing is or can be cruel to animals, and I'm more than willing to take steps to reduce the animals' suffering. So if that's the case, then why are groups like them (and PETA - see PETA's disturbingly low adoption rates [huffingtonpost.ca] ) so intent on rescuing animals only to kill them?

Re:Animal Cruelty (2)

Hatta (162192) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526337)

They believe that animal testing is morally wrong

That doesn't stop them from using products that are only possible because of animal testing. e.g. the PETA VP is a diabetic who used to use porcine insulin, now using recombinant insulin.

Re:Animal Cruelty (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526145)

I have worked in IT support in Life Sciences for some nine years now in the U.K. The level of security in the U.K. goes way beyond the average factory and/or office complex because of the issues that the animal rights terrorists cause. They have whole floors that are basically "hidden" and similar. Going anywhere in the building requires a smart card.

That said the animal rights terrorists in Italy are not as vocal and extreme as those in the U.K. so security may well be significantly laxer.

Animal supremacists are sick people (5, Interesting)

darthium (834988) | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526605)

Hah.... Problem is, for the nuts that do this it doesn't matter if the animals live or die. Either they're "saved from a worse fate" in the lab, or it's "the scientists who made them like this" so their existence is already unnatural or they're even "martyrs to the cause", but it's a flimsy justification for wanting to bust up someone's workplace without running into the level of security to be found in the average factory or office complex.

Ultimately, it's not that they like animals. It's that they hate people.

And I'm not exagerating, last year, in a spanish 'animal lovers' facebook group named F.R.A (you can verify it by yourself), a girl told the rest how 'good person'was an old lady, who beat up his grandson (who was just learning to walk) after being bitten by the house's dog, she produly told the group that 'no question was asked' and she inmediatly figured out that the dog was innocent.

And many cheered it up!

Even in youtube videos, where little children got severely injured (look for instance, "perros atacan niño", there are comments accusing the victim that 'the kid must have provoked the dog, dog's won't attack without being provoked', and when I ask them to watch videos in youtube, like "Dog attacks Police Officer Taser Full News Report" they get angry, and many of them say I'm a nasty person, and that they refuse to watch the video.

FWIW, they openly say they prefer animals than humans, they don't bother to deny it.

Would you feel well, if you realize some of these individuals, is near your children on daily basis? Shouldn't PSYCHIATRY already have noticed them? Or are there studies of this mental illness that Im not aware of?

Re:Animal Cruelty (1)

The MAZZTer (911996) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525685)

I was thinking the scientists should publically protest the group's treatment of animals, but your idea is better.

Bigoted assholes! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525811)

And WTF do they have against Italian labs as opposed to other Labrador Retrievers?

Bigoted assholes!

Re:Animal Cruelty (4, Insightful)

marcello_dl (667940) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526267)

Vandalism is a good way to drive away people from your cause indeed.

What about:
- i am against animal cruelty so all experimentation and ALL EXPERIMENTS' results must be public.

At least animals suffer only once.

Failure to do so, using animals to compete for treatments, is a sadistic blood rite, not science.

Re:Animal Cruelty (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526445)

Perhaps the penalty should be no jail time, no fines, just a prohibition from using any prescription or over the counter medications.

Morons (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 hours | (#43525491)

> "...releasing mice and rabbits and mixing up cage labels to confuse experimental protocols. Researchers at the university say that it will take years to recover their work."

But the animals are safe! That's what really matters! They can live happy lives in the wild, like they should.

> "Some of the mice they removed were delicate mutants and immunosuppressed ‘nude’ mice, which die very quickly outside controlled environments." ...oh. Oops?

Re:Morons (4, Insightful)

meerling (1487879) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525571)

Agreed. Some morons do reprehensible harm to research that would have helped many people, and cause the death of many of the test animals, all for the purpose of opposing a completely unrelated dog breeding facility that's in a different city.

I'd rather use some harsher descriptions than morons, but we'll leave it at that for now.

Re:Morons (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525939)

Maybe if you knew something about the subject here then you would see things differently.

You see the 'scientists' carrying out the research are the morons here; the notion that autism and schizophrenia have a genetic basis is utterly discredited and has been for some time.

The recent MMR vaccine debacle demonstrates that even quite respectable scientists can fall prey to this type of nonsense - what is remarkable is our failure to learn from such mistakes.

Inflicting misery on animals in the name of pseudoscience is disgraceful. These are not researchers and deserve to have their 'labs' smashed up.

Re:Morons (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526165)

Gee. All the good equipment destroyed. It would be better for it to be taken, so that it can still be used. Now they have to produce more of the destroyed stuff which will add even more greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere.

Anyways.... with how complex any genome is, it is hard to write off hand that there is no influence or even method to detect such problems early. Even if the cause is not in the genes, it could have a signal of higher possibility.

Ignoring what the equipment was used for, the ones that destroyed it should be charged with criminal charges. If I don't like the neighborhood cat lady, I can break into her house and destroy property and then release the cats adding more feral problems for the entire community? I think not.

Re:Morons (1)

Bigbutt (65939) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526171)

The problem here though is they're just going to clean the lab (killing off any remaining animals) and restart their experiments with new animals.

[John]

Re:Morons (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526217)

Wow, that was a beautiful troll, absolutely artful. Taking Jenny Mccarthy's position and making it sound scientific.

Re:Morons (-1, Flamebait)

benjfowler (239527) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526319)

Sibling posts: don't dignify this gutless faggot AC with a response.

Re:Morons (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526551)

wow, you talk about dignify and then you call me a gutless faggot - logic isn't your strong point is it?

2/3 of your siblings are ACs, are they gutless?

to be honest the "faggot" mention in your comment makes me wonder if you have some issue perhaps.. on the spectrum maybe, or bi-curious?

the question is, is there a genetic basis for your situation? and do innocent creatures deserve to die in order to find out.

probably not imho. but good luck anyhow!

Meeting (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 hours | (#43525505)

People who wants the cake and eat it too..
Those activists should have to go around to patients with those disorders and tell them why they won't get any treatment.

Re:Meeting (4, Interesting)

ceoyoyo (59147) | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526381)

I have a better idea. Next time those activists got to the doctor, they should be offered bleeding and sea cures as treatment. No antibiotics, insulin, or modern drugs.

Probably not the best idea... (4, Insightful)

tnk1 (899206) | 1 year,7 hours | (#43525519)

I have some sympathy for those who think animal testing is inhumane, but really all they are doing is just making sure these animals suffered for nothing. Does anyone think these funded projects will not get funding and a new set of animals to test on again?

I think humane treatment of animals needs to be done in a context of changing society's views on animal testing itself instead of what is basically vandalism. Vandalism is only going to let people regard those against animal testing as some sort of anarchist losers.

And yes, breaking into some of these labs is a biohazard situation. Probably not zombies, but still potentially very dangerous,

Re:Probably not the best idea... (2)

Xest (935314) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525581)

"Does anyone think these funded projects will not get funding and a new set of animals to test on again?"

To be fair, potentially not. I suspect this sort of catastrophe is enough to put an end to some experiments and labs.

I'm somewhat supportive of the cause of reducing animal testing because I think sometimes it is use unnecessarily and is done in an unnecessarily inhumane way, but I agree, this is the wrong way to go about minimising it's use and to screw up active experiments like this could be quite dangerous and could do more harm if infected animals escape and release manufactured or natural diseases into the reach of wild populations.

It's believed the UK's last major foot and mouth outbreak may have been the result of escaped strains of the virus from a research lab and that was just a result of generally poor controls. These protesters could be putting far more animals at risk causing this kind of chaos and risking such uncontrolled escape of diseases and so forth.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (1)

KiloByte (825081) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525937)

Why won't they force the terrorists to repay every penny lost due to the attack? While it's unlikely they'd have enough assets to cover losses, it will at least be a deterrent. Even if the researchers got back all grant money lost this way, it won't bring us back the time lost, but at least that's something.

This particular lab worked on psychiatric diseases which rarely cause death but "merely" cripple the person's life. For a more clear example, let's take a cancer lab, let's assume there's 1000 such labs worldwide. This means, an attack that delays the lab's research by just three months causes more deaths than September 11 attacks.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (1)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525613)

I wouldn't be terribly concerned about a human pathogens which tend to be controllable, but rather mutated lab animals that turn out to be invasive species in the wild. Then you go from saving a few hundred mice/rabitts to damaging or even destroying an entire ecosystem on a large scale.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (2)

Firethorn (177587) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525725)

but rather mutated lab animals that turn out to be invasive species in the wild.

Lab animals tend towards being common out in the wild - mice and rats, for example. The 'mutated' ones are even less of a threat, they're generally rather sensitive due to intensive inbreeding to express the desired traits. Since said traits are generally equivalents to human disorders, they're rather uncompetitive.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (1)

Rhacman (1528815) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525709)

It's a desperate cry for attention akin to throwing a temper tantrum. If they really cared about animals they might think twice about releasing genetically modified / contaminated / infected / non-native animals into the environment. People do things like this when they can't sway public opinion through constructive means.

There is a real discussion to be had for the role and extent of animal testing and the humane treatment of animals. These individuals have not demonstrated the maturity to be afforded a seat at that table.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (4, Insightful)

interkin3tic (1469267) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525775)

I think humane treatment of animals needs to be done in a context of changing society's views on animal testing itself instead of what is basically vandalism

Just to point out, treating animals humanely is already a concern at every real research institution. There are internal review boards and inspections to make sure animals are being treated well, they're healthy, and pain is minimized.

Even if you don't think researchers care about the animals, consider this: there are economic and public relations motives aligning research institutions with the public's view on animal testing. If a research institution is abusing animals, that will eventually get to the media, which will be a headache for all involved. So they take steps to avoid animals being abused in the first place. Also, animals are expensive. The "higher" the organism, the more expensive it is generally. If you can use mice instead of monkeys, you use mice: using monkeys is insanely expensive. If you can use C elegans (a worm) instead of mice, you use c elegans. Mice are hideously expensive to maintain and complicated compared to C elegans. If you can use yeast instead of C elegans, you use yeast because... well you see the pattern. Each step down, especially from mice to C elegans, the consensus is that they matter less, and they definitely cost less. So there's pressure to move away from animal models wherever possible already. If someone is doing testing in mice and is getting funded to do it, those studies probably won't work except in mice or above.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (2)

BasilBrush (643681) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525863)

Just to point out, treating animals humanely is already a concern at every real research institution. There are internal review boards and inspections to make sure animals are being treated well, they're healthy, and pain is minimized.

And actions by animal rights activists raising the issue is what caused the increased sensitivity that has resulted in those review boards and inspections, as well as more rigorous legislation in many countries.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526191)

But not the extremist animal rights activists that break into facilities and run amok. These people sully the efforts of the sane and practical animal rights activists.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526591)

I'd argue it's actually that scientists are people, and also other people involved who do not claim to be championing "animal rights." But I am a scientist, so perhaps I'm biased in favor of scientists and against people who call themselves animal rights activists.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (1)

StuartHankins (1020819) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526227)

After the initial shock, people go right back to doing whatever they were doing before and all is forgotten. Otherwise, we would have all watched Food, Inc or similar shows and quit eating meat because of the barbaric conditions and needless suffering of animals used in the food supply.

If people aren't willing to change because of a cheeseburger, they're not going to give a rat's ass -- and yep that's intentional -- when it comes to preventing the suffering of lab animals.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526629)

What's your point? To me that simply suggests that most people don't actually value animal rights very far above using animals. We want to avoid excessive abuse of animals, but we do still need to use/eat them.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (1)

Vegan Cyclist (1650427) | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526439)

If you look up the definition of 'humane', it would preclude their use in labs in the first place...nothing about this is 'humane'. As for 'animal cruelty stories in the media' - this almost NEVER happens. And if it does get out, it's usually because of activists, not someone within the lab.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525833)

I have some sympathy for those who think animal testing is inhumane, but really all they are doing is just making sure these animals suffered for nothing. Does anyone think these funded projects will not get funding and a new set of animals to test on again?

I've no idea whether this particular set of experiments will be continued and animals replaced or not. But animal rights activists have raised the profile of this issue over the last 3 decades or so, and standards and regulations have risen in many countries as a result. And now the question is always asked, is vivisection the only way this can be done?

As a result, I'm sure far less animals are now experimented upon than would otherwise be the case. Activism does work. But it's slow. It's slowly changing attitudes rather than any sudden successes.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (2)

realxmp (518717) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526075)

I've no idea whether this particular set of experiments will be continued and animals replaced or not.

If not at Milan then elsewhere, the research will be done as long as there are still diseases to be cured. There's pretty much no other way to model the complex system that is life, except with more life, computers can't cut it.

And now the question is always asked, is vivisection the only way this can be done?

Using this word to describe animal experimentation as a whole is a deliberate deception. Actual vivisection is actually pretty bloody rare because it doesn't often tell us much, instead an animal is usually euthanised and then dissected instead. A lot of the time the research involves simple phenotyping, aka mutating a gene and then testing animals to see the effect. E.g. whether it makes them faster or slower; live longer or shorter; stronger or weaker; etc. There isn't much cutting a live animal open, that cutting a dead animal open doesn't tell you (which is far far easier). There are exceptions, but vivisection is a rarity not the norm.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526383)

Activism is like a slap to the face for doing something. It just makes me want to do something harder out of spite.

Such actions are terrorism. They are trying to terrorize the community. This is their Sharia Law. They are self-righteous and consider themselves at a higher moral standard, while ignoring culture and civilization itself. The only thing such actions cause me to do, is to scoff at their double-standards and wonder why they ignore what it is to be alive.

I would love to make a joke about them having their hair washed and equating it to water-boarding, but that isn't true or fitting at the moment.

Where does it end? Assuming they are vegans, because, "Oh no. Poor animals." Do they eat plants? Is the difference what they consider to have a "soul" or not? Could plants not have "souls"? If not their afterlife must be quite boring with no flowers. Is having a nervous system a requirement, if so, then they could eat something like butterflies that don't have one. Do they have an issue with dairy products? Is the problem with being made from living creatures, or is it how the beasts are treated? Would they be willing to drink human milk then, or that even to far beyond them?

Save the pandas? Let them die. They are only alive because we keep interfering, which is unnatural.

It really is too easy to rant. At least it is much easier than headbanging a wall, and more satisfying than a facepalm.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526035)

there are enough zombies around here thank you very much - the knee jerk reaction to this story very well evidences this.

if any of you "slashdot crowd" commenting here knew anything about genetics or autism or psychiatry, or science in general, then you would be very well aware that this research is a larger than average pile of crap.

when slashdot strays from the usual 'apple's latest gadget is magic' type story then it usually ends up messy. this is no exception.

now please put away your pitchforks and torches and get back to organizing your itunes collection, immediately!

Re:Probably not the best idea... (1)

Nexus7 (2919) | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526425)

Animal testing is inhumane, but it is also mostly bogus. They immuno-suppressed the f out of these animals, right? So they'll easily develop cancers and other diseases, right? Yeah, so what relevance does that animal have to humans? Zilch. It is accepted that mice testing is simply something to get out of the way, something to get funding for ('cause all that the funders - like the NIH in the US - recognize is testing on mice). They get it out of the way, so they can get to human trials, and that's where you find out what works for humans and what doesn't.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526603)

So according to you no drug candidate that has looked good in vitro and in cell culture ever turned out to be lethal or have severe side effects when tested in animals.

Re:Probably not the best idea... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526675)

So basically you have an error in logic. And, on top of that, I said "mostly".

Thanks for volunteering (4, Funny)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | 1 year,7 hours | (#43525525)

It seems to me these activists have just volunteered to replace the animals in the next round of experiments.

Re:Thanks for volunteering (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525591)

It seems to me these activists have just volunteered to replace the animals in the next round of experiments.

As someone with paranoid schizophrenia and shitty medication, I think that's a great idea.

Re:Thanks for volunteering (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525667)

No, they committed a crime and should face trail in accordance with the laws of the area. They did not volunteer to be experimental subjects. You sound like NY Senator Greg Ball.

Re:Thanks for volunteering (5, Funny)

lgw (121541) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525743)

No, they committed a crime and should face trail in accordance with the laws of the area. They did not volunteer to be experimental subjects.

Quite right, quite right! First the trial, then the medical experimentation.

Re:Thanks for volunteering (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526213)

Ok fine. Then give them an obscene sentence, which can be reduced significantly by "volunteering" for a medical procedure. Cruel and unusual problem solved!

The revolution will be televized (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 hours | (#43525551)

Re:The revolution will be televized (1)

Frobnicator (565869) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525611)

Brilliant. Photos of themselves committing the crime, posing with the animals they released, posted publicly. How about they just turn themselves in to the police right now?

Re:The revolution will be televized (1)

jonfr (888673) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526173)

Releasing a none-native species into the wild is highly damaging. Since nobody can tell what that does to the native species already in the area. This people might have just done massive damage to nature in Italy. Not just the research it self.

Animal Testes (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525563)

Bunch of animal-loving beastiality fagets if you ask me.

No Arrests? (1)

CanEHdian (1098955) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525619)

No arrests have been made following the 12-hour drama

What? "Protesters" are in a university facility for 12 hours doing who-knows-what, come out, and just being allowed to leave? Any Italians around here that can explain why they weren't loaded on a number of vans, taken downtown, and locked up?

I wonder if that university has access to JSTOR...

Just another type of fundamentalism (4, Insightful)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525635)

This is the same behavior I would expect from any kind of extremist where their actions are based on intolerant idealism. Whatever your religion, if you think other people need to suffer, you are wrong.

Re:Just another type of fundamentalism (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525895)

What about if you think animals have to suffer?

Re:Just another type of fundamentalism (1)

HappyHead (11389) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526315)

What about if you think animals have to suffer?

Well, that does appear to be the opinion of these particular violent criminals who broke into a lab and released animals to die painful suffering deaths in the wild. Once again, they are wrong.

Re:Just another type of fundamentalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526461)

If people were afraid of others suffering, then they shouldn't step outside their front door. Every action causes another to suffer, it is just a matter of degree. A lot of short term suffering on creatures that wouldn't be alive otherwise, or a long term suffering because testing couldn't happen? I can guarantee you that if these problems aren't cured or addressed in some way, there will be more suffering as a whole.

Re:Just another type of fundamentalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525997)

This is the same behavior I would expect from any kind of extremist where their actions are based on intolerant idealism. Whatever your religion, if you think other people need to suffer, you are wrong.

Nice try. You can't pin this on religion. This is a group of people who probably scoff at the religious claiming to be rational humanists. If anything, there is an atheistic air about these people who feel that an animal's life is equal to, or better than a human life.

Re:Just another type of fundamentalism (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526387)

Sorry, no. I've had to deal with these type of idiots before, and they're usually very fanatically religious as well. The death threats they send are usually laced with "god hates you" and "you're going to burn in hell".

trespassed (3, Insightful)

bored_engineer (951004) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525715)

This is called trespassing, not occupying. It's always interested me how our politics can influence our descriptions.

Re:trespassed (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525873)

No arrests have been made following the 12-hour drama, which took place on Saturday, although the university says that it will press charges against the protesters. The activists took some of the animals and were told during negotiations that they would be permitted to come back later and take more.

They maintained occupancy in the facility for 12 hours. Negotiations were required to get them to leave the facility. They occupied the facility.

Re:trespassed (2)

Nidi62 (1525137) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525977)

Wait, what?

The activists took some of the animals and were told during negotiations that they would be permitted to come back later and take more.

I think the negotiators were doing it wrong. Either that, or you have the police waiting there when they return to arrest them.

There will always be testing on animals. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525753)

Yes, always. The only question will be which animal? Mice, monkeys, rabbits, dogs, or my lovely young granddaughter? Guess which one I vote for.

There is solution (1)

jacekm (895699) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525849)

Give them drug resistsant bacteria and tell them that drug cannot be developed because we cannot test it on live mice.

Bad for the animals (4, Insightful)

onyxruby (118189) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525901)

It's always apocalyptic for the animals when this kind of thing happens. This is Eco-terrorism and it's the local wildlife that suffers with the large influx of new animals that they suddenly have to compete with or risk catching whatever it was that required laboratory conditions to begin with.

The lab raised animals have no natural ability to forage, hunt, seek shelter, hide from predators or anything else. They are proverbial sitting ducks and when released into the wild are usually located by the large numbers of dead (whatever) bodies all in a given area. In the event of predatory animals they can go on a rampage against farm animals or pets and the net result is a lot of other dead animals as well.

The impact to the environment is bad as there is no balance and concerns like population disbursement across suitable environments are never taken into consideration. These are not the actions of anyone that gives a damn about the environment because if they did and had a clue they would never do something like this.

When the animals are found they have to be put down (killed) in order to avoid further contaminating the environment with what was otherwise a controlled test requiring laboratory conditions. The net result is that critical research in things like medicine or other science sometimes gets set back by years as they have to start the entire research experiment over. This of course results in far more animals going through than otherwise would have and can significantly hamper life saving research.

I don't know (1)

TheSkepticalOptimist (898384) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525913)

I don't think there is anything more vapid than an animal rights activist IMHO because these people see nothing more important to focus their time on. To wake up in the morning and be outraged because rats are being used to test cancer drugs on suggests a certain disconnect from reality.

Re:I don't know (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526175)

Those who see nothing more important than protecting the... well protecting the something of undifferentiated, inviable stem cells are pretty special too.

Ok (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43525981)

So then maybe we should start testing on the protestors instead of the mice/etc.

Or perhaps they'd prefer stuff to hit the markets w/o any type of testing at all?

terrorism, pure and simple (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526057)

A group causing destruction and loss of life (the inevitable death of most of the released animals, in this case) to support their own radical cause - this is no different than any other terrorist attack. Italy is a democracy - if you don't like the laws that regulate animal research, work through the political and legal systems of your country to change it!

As usual, (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526063)

evil being done in the name of good! Self righteous bastards.

animal cruelty (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526085)

since animals do not have a mind, they do not have any rights.

*runs*

Animal rights extremism (1, Insightful)

benjfowler (239527) | 1 year,6 hours | (#43526167)

It should be noted that animal rights extremism is one of those nastiest "-ism"s out there. They're uniformly odd (gay, vegan, left-wing, what not) not-very-bright, hyper-emotional, irrational and violent, not to mention, annoying. In otherwise, extremism and violence-prone personalities.

Furthermore, southern Europe has the craziest and most violent animal rights nutters out there. For a while, I'd see a crazy woman in a chicken suit squawking through a microphone incoherently in front of my office (AstraZeneca are allegedly near by), but then I went south a few times, and those extremists are split from the whole fucking program.

Re:Animal rights extremism (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526535)

They're uniformly odd (gay, vegan, left-wing, what not) not-very-bright, hyper-emotional, irrational and violent, not to mention, annoying. In otherwise, extremism and violence-prone personalities.

You forgot to mention they tend to make ridiculous sweeping generalizations.

Need better advertising (1)

magarity (164372) | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526397)

Widely publicize that your lab is testing one mouse for exotic and deadly diseases. Then label all the cages only with numbers. Anyone breaking in wouldn't know which was safe to let escape. Notice that no actual disease test needed. Kind of like those signs "Property guarded by armed owner four nights per week: you guess the nights"

What about Rat Poisoning companies (2)

realsilly (186931) | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526423)

I like animals, I really do, but since our government agencies won't allow human volunteers prior to other means of testing, Research facilities are in a No Win situation. They use animals of various kinds to perform tests upon so the world has modern medicine that saves human lives. So they will tend to use those type of animals that the world has an abundance of, mice rats and more. The researchers also use those animals that are most closely related to human for more specific testing. Researchers must have strong constitutions, for I would suspect that many like animals and do their best to not let their personal views on animal testing influence the stringent research they are doing.

Do these protesters really believe that through animal testing they have learned how to save other animals, not just people?
Do these protesters realize that without this type of research, that they may force a delay in modern medicine by years, some of this medicine will likely be used to save themselves or someone they love dearly?
Do these protesters ever go after the insecticide companies or companies that make poison strictly for killing animals that are pests?
Do these same protester protect every species, such as roaches, ants, and stinging bugs?

If they have ever owned one pet or put an animal to sleep because they care or ever gotten a pet for their child who "wanted one" or though that a cute pet would make someone happy, then the hypocrisy is just laughable.

If you want to protest testing against animals petition your government to allow humans to volunteer for being the research test subjects, and when none come forward (after a set amount of time) then researchers can use animals. Talk to your politicians, change the laws.

Site Security (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,5 hours | (#43526545)

I am curious as to how they gained access to the lab. As The Archon posted ("...without running into the level of security to be found in the average factory or office complex"), given that these types of labs pretty much have big bullseyes on them, I have to wonder how rigorous were their security procedues. If you know you are a potetial target, you better have your site security ducks all in a row.

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