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Texas Company's Antique Computers Are For Production, Not Display

timothy posted about a year and a half ago | from the commute-by-horseback-numb-with-ether dept.

Input Devices 289

concealment writes "Sparkler Filters up north in Conroe [Texas] still uses an IBM 402 in conjunction with a Model 129 key punch – with the punch cards and all – to do company accounting work and inventory. The company makes industrial filters for chemical plants and grease traps. Lutricia Wood is the head accountant at Sparkler and the data processing manager. She went to business school over 40 years ago in Houston, and started at Sparkler in 1973. Back then punch cards were still somewhat state of the art." See for an eye-popping view of one of the "programs" — imagine debugging that.

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Slashdot refuses to stop abuse... apk (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547695)

A corrupt slashdot luser has pentrated the moderation system to downmod all my posts while impersonating me.

Nearly 230++ times that I know of @ this point for all of March/April 2013 so far, & others here have told you to stop - take the hint, lunatic (leave slashdot)...

Sorry folks - but whoever the nutjob is that's attempting to impersonate me, & upset the rest of you as well, has SERIOUS mental issues, no questions asked! I must've gotten the better of him + seriously "gotten his goat" in doing so in a technical debate & his "geek angst" @ losing to me has him doing the:


A.) $10,000 challenges, ala (where the imposter actually TRACKED + LISTED the # of times he's done this no less, & where I get the 230 or so times I noted above) -> []


B.) Reposting OLD + possibly altered models - (this I haven't checked on as to altering the veracity of the info. being changed) of posts of mine from the past here


(Albeit massively repeatedly thru all threads on /. this March/April 2013 nearly in its entirety thusfar).

* Personally, I'm surprised the moderation staff here hasn't just "blocked out" his network range yet honestly!

(They know it's NOT the same as my own as well, especially after THIS post of mine, which they CAN see the IP range I am coming out of to compare with the ac spamming troll doing the above...).


P.S.=> Again/Stressing it: NO guys - it is NOT me doing it, as I wouldn't waste that much time on such trivial b.s. like a kid might...

Plus, I only post where hosts file usage is on topic or appropriate for a solution & certainly NOT IN EVERY POST ON SLASHDOT (like the nutcase trying to "impersonate me" is doing for nearly all of March/April now, & 230++ times that I know of @ least)... apk

P.S.=> here is CORRECT host file information just to piss off the insane lunatic troll:


21++ ADVANTAGES OF CUSTOM HOSTS FILES (how/what/when/where/why):

Over AdBlock & DNS Servers ALONE 4 Security, Speed, Reliability, & Anonymity (to an extent vs. DNSBL's + DNS request logs).

1.) HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program). A truly "multi-platform" UNIVERSAL solution for added speed, security, reliability, & even anonymity to an extent (vs. DNS request logs + DNSBL's you feel are unjust hosts get you past/around).

2.) Adblock blocks ads? Well, not anymore & certainly not as well by default, apparently, lol - see below:

Adblock Plus To Offer 'Acceptable Ads' Option [] )

AND, in only browsers & their subprogram families (ala email like Thunderbird for FireFox/Mozilla products (use same gecko & xulrunner engines)), but not all, or, all independent email clients, like Outlook, Outlook Express, OR Window "LIVE" mail (for example(s)) - there's many more like EUDORA & others I've used over time that AdBlock just DOES NOT COVER... period.

Disclaimer: Opera now also has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF or Chrome etc..

3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF (non-mozilla/gecko engine based) family based wares, So AdBlock doesn't protect email programs like Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows "LIVE" mail & others like them (EUDORA etc./et al), Hosts files do. THIS IS GOOD VS. SPAM MAIL or MAILS THAT BEAR MALICIOUS SCRIPT, or, THAT POINT TO MALICIOUS SCRIPT VIA URLS etc.

4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 5-7 next below).

5.) Adblock doesn't allow you to hardcode in your favorite websites into it so you don't make DNS server calls and so you can avoid tracking by DNS request logs, OR make you reach them faster since you resolve host-domain names LOCALLY w/ hosts out of cached memory, hosts do ALL of those things (DNS servers are also being abused by the Chinese lately and by the Kaminsky flaw -> [] for years now). Hosts protect against those problems via hardcodes of your fav sites (you should verify against the TLD that does nothing but cache IPAddress-to-domainname/hostname resolutions ( via NSLOOKUP, PINGS (ping -a in Windows), &/or WHOIS though, regularly, so you have the correct IP & it's current)).

* NOW - Some folks MAY think that putting an IP address alone into your browser's address bar will be enough, so why bother with HOSTS, right? WRONG - Putting IP address in your browser won't always work IS WHY. Some IP adresses host several domains & need the site name to give you the right page you're after is why. So for some sites only the HOSTS file option will work!

6.) Hosts files don't eat up CPU cycles (or ELECTRICITY) like AdBlock does while it parses a webpages' content, nor as much as a DNS server does while it runs. HOSTS file are merely a FILTER for the kernel mode/PnP TCP/IP subsystem, which runs FAR FASTER & MORE EFFICIENTLY than any ring 3/rpl3/usermode app can since hosts files run in MORE EFFICIENT & FASTER Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode operations acting merely as a filter for the IP stack (via the "Plug-N-Play" designed IP stack in Windows) vs. SLOWER & LESS EFFICIENT Ring 3/RPL 3/Usermode operations (which webbrowsers run in + their addons like AdBlock slow down even MORESO due to their parsing operations).

7.) HOSTS files will allow you to get to sites you like, via hardcoding your favs into a HOSTS file, FAR faster than remote DNS servers can by FAR (by saving the roundtrip inquiry time to a DNS server, typically 30-100's of ms, vs. 7-10ms HardDisk speed of access/seek + SSD seek in ns, & back to you - hosts resolutions of IP address for host-domain names is FAR faster...). Hosts are only a filter for an already fast & efficient IP stack, no more layered b.s. (remote OR local). Hosts eat less CPU, RAM, I/O in other forms, + electricity than a locally running DNS server easily, and less than a local DNS program on a single PC. Fact. Hosts are easier to setup & maintain too.

8.) AdBlock doesn't let you block out known bad sites or servers that are known to be maliciously scripted, hosts can and many reputable lists for this exist:

Spybot "Search & Destroy" IMMUNIZE feature (fortifies HOSTS files with KNOWN bad servers blocked)

And yes: Even SLASHDOT &/or The Register help!

(Via articles on security (when the source articles they use are "detailed" that is, & list the servers/sites involved in attempting to bushwhack others online that is... not ALL do!)).

2 examples thereof in the past I have used, & noted it there, are/were: [] []

9.) AdBlock & DNS servers are programs, and subject to bugs programs can get. Hosts files are merely a filter and not a program, thus not subject to bugs of the nature just discussed.

10.) HOSTS files protect you vs. DNS-poisoning &/or the Kaminsky flaw in DNS servers, and allow you to get to sites reliably vs. things like the Chinese are doing to DNS -> []

11.) HOSTS files are EASILY user controlled, obtained (for reliable ones -> [] ) & edited too, via texteditors like Windows notepad.exe or Linux nano (etc.)

12.) With Adblock you had better be able to code javascript to play with its code (to customize it better than the GUI front does @ least). With hosts you don't even need source to control it (edit, update, delete, insert of new entries via a text editor).

13.) Hosts files are easily secured via using MAC/ACL (even moreso "automagically" for Vista, 7/Server 2008 + beyond by UAC by default) &/or Read-Only attributes applied.

14.) Custom HOSTS files also speed you up, unlike anonymous proxy servers systems variations (like TOR, or other "highly anonymous" proxy server list servers typically do, in the severe speed hit they often have a cost in) either via "hardcoding" your fav. sites into your hosts file (avoids DNS servers, totally) OR blocking out adbanners - see this below for evidence of that:


US Military Blocks Websites To Free Up Bandwidth: []

(Yes, even the US Military used this type of technique... because IT WORKS! Most of what they blocked? Ad banners ala doubleclick etc.)


Adbanners slow you down & consume your bandwidth YOU pay for:



And people do NOT LIKE ads on the web:



As well as this:

Users Know Advertisers Watch Them, and Hate It: []


Even WORSE still, is this:

Advertising Network Caught History Stealing: []


15.) HOSTS files usage lets you avoid being charged on some ISP/BSP's (OR phone providers) "pay as you use" policy [] , because you are using less bandwidth (& go faster doing so no less) by NOT hauling in adbanner content and processing it (which can lead to infestation by malware/malicious script, in & of itself -> [] ).

16.) If/when ISP/BSP's decide to go to -> FCC Approving Pay-As-You-Go Internet Plans: [] your internet bill will go DOWN if you use a HOSTS file for blocking adbanners as well as maliciously scripted hacker/cracker malware maker sites too (after all - it's your money & time online downloading adbanner content & processing it)

Plus, your adbanner content? Well, it may also be hijacked with malicious code too mind you:


Yahoo, Microsoft's Bing display toxic ads: []


Malware torrent delivered over Google, Yahoo! ad services: []


Google's DoubleClick spreads malicious ads (again): []


Rogue ads infiltrate Expedia and Rhapsody: []


Google sponsored links caught punting malware: []


DoubleClick caught supplying malware-tainted ads: []


Yahoo feeds Trojan-laced ads to MySpace and PhotoBucket users: []


Real Media attacks real people via RealPlayer: []


Ad networks owned by Google, Microsoft serve malware: []


Attacks Targeting Classified Ad Sites Surge: []


Hackers Respond To Help Wanted Ads With Malware: []


Hackers Use Banner Ads on Major Sites to Hijack Your PC: []


Ruskie gang hijacks Microsoft network to push penis pills: []


Major ISPs Injecting Ads, Vulnerabilities Into Web: []


Two Major Ad Networks Found Serving Malware: []












London Stock Exchange Web Site Serving Malware: []


Spotify splattered with malware-tainted ads: []


As my list "multiple evidences thereof" as to adbanners & viruses + the fact they slow you down & cost you more (from reputable & reliable sources no less)).

17.) Per point #16, a way to save some money: ANDROID phones can also use the HOSTS FILE TO KEEP DOWN BILLABLE TIME ONLINE, vs. adbanners or malware such as this:


Infected Androids Run Up Big Texting Bills: []


AND, for protection vs. other "botnets" migrating from the PC world, to "smartphones" such as ZITMO (a ZEUS botnet variant): []


It's easily done too, via the ADB dev. tool, & mounting ANDROID OS' system mountpoint for system/etc as READ + WRITE/ADMIN-ROOT PERMISSIONS, then copying your new custom HOSTS over the old one using ADB PULL/ADB PUSH to do so (otherwise ANDROID complains of "this file cannot be overwritten on production models of this Operating System", or something very along those lines - this way gets you around that annoyance along with you possibly having to clear some space there yourself if you packed it with things!).

18.) Bad news: ADBLOCK CAN BE DETECTED FOR: See here on that note -> []

HOSTS files are NOT THAT EASILY "webbug" BLOCKABLE by websites, as was tried on users by ARSTECHNICA (and it worked on AdBlock in that manner), to that websites' users' dismay:



An experiment gone wrong - By Ken Fisher | Last updated March 6, 2010 11:11 AM []

"Starting late Friday afternoon we conducted a 12 hour experiment to see if it would be possible to simply make content disappear for visitors who were using a very popular ad blocking tool. Technologically, it was a success in that it worked. Ad blockers, and only ad blockers, couldn't see our content."


"Our experiment is over, and we're glad we did it because it led to us learning that we needed to communicate our point of view every once in a while. Sure, some people told us we deserved to die in a fire. But that's the Internet!"

Thus, as you can see? Well - THAT all "went over like a lead balloon" with their users in other words, because Arstechnica was forced to change it back to the old way where ADBLOCK still could work to do its job (REDDIT however, has not, for example). However/Again - this is proof that HOSTS files can still do the job, blocking potentially malscripted ads (or ads in general because they slow you down) vs. adblockers like ADBLOCK!


19.) Even WIKILEAKS "favors" blacklists (because they work, and HOSTS can be a blacklist vs. known BAD sites/servers/domain-host names):



"we are in favour of 'Blacklists', be it for mail servers or websites, they have to be compiled with care... Fortunately, more responsible blacklists, like (which protects the Firefox browser)...


20.) AND, LASTLY? SINCE MALWARE GENERALLY HAS TO OPERATE ON WHAT YOU YOURSELF CAN DO (running as limited class/least privlege user, hopefully, OR even as ADMIN/ROOT/SUPERUSER)? HOSTS "LOCK IN" malware too, vs. communicating "back to mama" for orders (provided they have name servers + C&C botnet servers listed in them, blocked off in your HOSTS that is) - you might think they use a hardcoded IP, which IS possible, but generally they do not & RECYCLE domain/host names they own (such as has been seen with the RBN (Russian Business Network) lately though it was considered "dead", other malwares are using its domains/hostnames now, & this? This stops that cold, too - Bonus!)...

21.) Custom HOSTS files gain users back more "screen real estate" by blocking out banner ads... it's great on PC's for speed along with MORE of what I want to see/read (not ads), & efficiency too, but EVEN BETTER ON SMARTPHONES - by far. It matters MOST there imo @ least, in regards to extra screen real-estate.

Still - It's a GOOD idea to layer in the usage of BOTH browser addons for security like adblock ( [] ), IE 9's new TPL's ( [] ), &/or NoScript ( [] especially this one, as it covers what HOSTS files can't in javascript which is the main deliverer of MOST attacks online & SECUNIA.COM can verify this for anyone really by looking @ the past few years of attacks nowadays), for the concept of "layered security"....

It's just that HOSTS files offer you a LOT MORE gains than Adblock ( [] ) does alone (as hosts do things adblock just plain cannot & on more programs, for more speed, security, and "stealth" to a degree even), and it corrects problems in DNS (as shown above via hardcodes of your favorite sites into your HOSTS file, and more (such as avoiding DNS request logs)).

ALSO - Some more notes on DNS servers & their problems, very recent + ongoing ones:


DNS flaw reanimates slain evil sites as ghost domains: []


BIND vs. what the Chinese are doing to DNS lately? See here: []



(Yes, even "security pros" are helpless vs. DNS problems in code bugs OR redirect DNS poisoning issues, & they can only try to "set the DNS record straight" & then, they still have to wait for corrected DNS info. to propogate across all subordinate DNS servers too - lagtime in which folks DO get "abused" in mind you!)


DNS vs. the "Kaminsky DNS flaw", here (and even MORE problems in DNS than just that): []

(Seems others are saying that some NEW "Bind9 flaw" is worse than the Kaminsky flaw ALONE, up there, mind you... probably corrected (hopefully), but it shows yet again, DNS hassles (DNS redirect/DNS poisoning) being exploited!)


Moxie Marlinspike's found others (0 hack) as well...

Nope... "layered security" truly IS the "way to go" - hacker/cracker types know it, & they do NOT want the rest of us knowing it too!...

(So until DNSSEC takes "widespread adoption"? HOSTS are your answer vs. such types of attack, because the 1st thing your system refers to, by default, IS your HOSTS file (over say, DNS server usage). There are decent DNS servers though, such as OpenDNS, ScrubIT, or even NORTON DNS (more on each specifically below), & because I cannot "cache the entire internet" in a HOSTS file? I opt to use those, because I have to (& OpenDNS has been noted to "fix immediately", per the Kaminsky flaw, in fact... just as a sort of reference to how WELL they are maintained really!)


DNS Hijacks Now Being Used to Serve Black Hole Exploit Kit: []


DNS experts admit some of the underlying foundations of the DNS protocol are inherently weak: []


Potential 0-Day Vulnerability For BIND 9: []


Five DNS Threats You Should Protect Against: []


DNS provider decked by DDoS dastards: []


Ten Percent of DNS Servers Still Vulnerable: (so much for "conscientious patching", eh? Many DNS providers weren't patching when they had to!) []




TimeWarner DNS Hijacking: []


DNS Re-Binding Attacks: []


DNS Server Survey Reveals Mixed Security Picture: []


Halvar figured out super-secret DNS vulnerability: []


BIND Still Susceptible To DNS Cache Poisoning: []


DNS Poisoning Hits One of China's Biggest ISPs: []


DDoS Attacks Via DNS Recursion: []


High Severity BIND DNS Vulnerability Advisory Issued: []


Photobucketâ(TM)s DNS records hijacked: []


Protecting Browsers from DNS Rebinding Attacks: []


DNS Problem Linked To DDoS Attacks Gets Worse: []


HOWEVER - Some DNS servers are "really good stuff" vs. phishing, known bad sites/servers/hosts-domains that serve up malware-in-general & malicious scripting, botnet C&C servers, & more, such as:

Norton DNS -> []
  ScrubIT DNS -> []
  OpenDNS -> []

(Norton DNS in particular, is exclusively for blocking out malware, for those of you that are security-conscious. ScrubIT filters pr0n material too, but does the same, & OpenDNS does phishing protection. Each page lists how & why they work, & why they do so. Norton DNS can even show you its exceptions lists, plus user reviews & removal procedures requests, AND growth stats (every 1/2 hour or so) here -> [] so, that ought to "take care of the naysayers" on removal requests, &/or methods used plus updates frequency etc./et al...)

HOWEVER - There's ONLY 1 WEAKNESS TO ANY network defense, including HOSTS files (vs. host-domain name based threats) & firewalls (hardware router type OR software type, vs. IP address based threats): Human beings, & they not being 'disciplined' about the indiscriminate usage of javascript (the main "harbinger of doom" out there today online), OR, what they download for example... & there is NOTHING I can do about that! (Per Dr. Manhattan of "The Watchmen", ala -> "I can change almost anything, but I can't change human nature")

HOWEVER AGAIN - That's where NORTON DNS, OpenDNS, &/or ScrubIT DNS help!

(Especially for noob/grandma level users who are unaware of how to secure themselves in fact, per a guide like mine noted above that uses "layered-security" principles!)

ScrubIT DNS, &/or OpenDNS are others alongside Norton DNS (adding on phishing protection too) as well!

( & it's possible to use ALL THREE in your hardware NAT routers, and, in your Local Area Connection DNS properties in Windows, for again, "Layered Security" too)...




"Ever since I've installed a host file ( to redirect advertisers to my loopback, I haven't had any malware, spyware, or adware issues. I first started using the host file 5 years ago." - by TestedDoughnut (1324447) on Monday December 13, @12:18AM (#34532122)

"I use a custom /etc/hosts to block ads... my file gets parsed basically instantly ... So basically, for any modern computer, it has zero visible impact. And even if it took, say, a second to parse, that would be more than offset by the MANY seconds saved by not downloading and rendering ads. I have noticed NO ill effects from running a custom /etc/hosts file for the last several years. And as a matter of fact I DO run http servers on my computers and I've never had an /etc/hosts-related problem... it FUCKING WORKS and makes my life better overall." - by sootman (158191) on Monday July 13 2009, @11:47AM (#28677363) Homepage Journal

"I actually went and downloaded a 16k line hosts file and started using that after seeing that post, you know just for trying it out. some sites load up faster." - by gl4ss (559668) on Thursday November 17, @11:20AM (#38086752) Homepage Journal

"Better than an ad blocker, imo. Hosts file entries: [] " - by TempestRose (1187397) on Tuesday March 15, @12:53PM (#35493274)

"^^ One of the many reasons why I like the user-friendliness of the /etc/hosts file." - by lennier1 (264730) on Saturday March 05, @09:26PM (#35393448)

"They've been on my HOSTS block for years" - by ScottCooperDotNet (929575) on Thursday August 05 2010, @01:52AM (#33147212)

"I'm currently only using my hosts file to block pheedo ads from showing up in my RSS feeds and causing them to take forever to load. Regardless of its original intent, it's still a valid tool, when used judiciously." - by Bill Dog (726542) on Monday April 25, @02:16AM (#35927050) Homepage Journal

"you're right about hosts files" - by drinkypoo (153816) on Thursday May 26, @01:21PM (#36252958) Homepage

"APK's monolithic hosts file is looking pretty good at the moment." - by Culture20 (968837) on Thursday November 17, @10:08AM (#38085666)

"I also use the MVPS ad blocking hosts file." - by Rick17JJ (744063) on Wednesday January 19, @03:04PM (#34931482)

"I use ad-Block and a hostfile" - by Ol Olsoc (1175323) on Tuesday March 01, @10:11AM (#35346902)

"I do use Hosts, for a couple fake domains I use." - by icebraining (1313345) on Saturday December 11, @09:34AM (#34523012) Homepage

"It's a good write up on something everybody should use, why you were modded down is beyond me. Using a HOSTS file, ADblock is of no concern and they can do what they want." - by Trax3001BBS (2368736) on Monday December 12, @10:07PM (#38351398) Homepage Journal

"I want my surfing speed back so I block EVERY fucking ad. i.e. [] and [] FTW" - by UnknownSoldier (67820) on Tuesday December 13, @12:04PM (#38356782)

"Let me introduce you to the file: /etc/hosts" - by fahrbot-bot (874524) on Monday December 19, @05:03PM (#38427432)

"I use a hosts file" - by EdIII (1114411) on Tuesday December 13, @01:17PM (#38357816)

"I'm tempted to go for a hacked hosts file that simply resolves most advert sites to" - by bLanark (123342) on Tuesday December 13, @01:13PM (#38357760)

"this is not a troll, which hosts file source you recommend nowadays? it's a really handy method for speeding up web and it works." - by gl4ss (559668) on Thursday March 22, @08:07PM (#39446525) Homepage Journal

"A hosts file certainly does not require "a lot of work" to maintain, and it quite effectively kills a LOT of advertising and tracking schemes. . In fact, I never would have considered trying to use it for ddefending against viruses or malware." - by RocketRabbit (830691) on Thursday December 30 2010, @05:48PM (#34715060)


Then, there is also the words of respected security expert, Mr. Oliver Day, from SECURITYFOCUS.COM to "top that all off" as well:


Some "PERTINENT QUOTES/EXCERPTS" to back up my points with (for starters):


"The host file on my day-to-day laptop is now over 16,000 lines long. Accessing the Internet -- particularly browsing the Web -- is actually faster now."

Speed, and security, is the gain... others like Mr. Day note it as well!


"From what I have seen in my research, major efforts to share lists of unwanted hosts began gaining serious momentum earlier this decade. The most popular appear to have started as a means to block advertising and as a way to avoid being tracked by sites that use cookies to gather data on the user across Web properties. More recently, projects like Spybot Search and Destroy offer lists of known malicious servers to add a layer of defense against trojans and other forms of malware."

Per my points exactly, no less... & guess who was posting about HOSTS files a 14++ yrs. or more back & Mr. Day was reading & now using? Yours truly (& this is one of the later ones, from 2001 [] (but the example HOSTS file with my initials in it is FAR older, circa 1998 or so) or thereabouts, and referred to later by a pal of mine who moderates (where I posted on HOSTS for YEARS (1997 onwards)) -> [] !


"Shared host files could be beneficial for other groups as well. Human rights groups have sought after block resistant technologies for quite some time. The GoDaddy debacle with NMap creator Fyodor (corrected) showed a particularly vicious blocking mechanism using DNS registrars. Once a registrar pulls a website from its records, the world ceases to have an effective way to find it. Shared host files could provide a DNS-proof method of reaching sites, not to mention removing an additional vector of detection if anyone were trying to monitor the use of subversive sites. One of the known weaknesses of the Tor system, for example, is direct DNS requests by applications not configured to route such requests through Tor's network."

There you go: AND, it also works vs. the "KAMINSKY DNS FLAW" & DNS poisoning/redirect attacks, for redirectable weaknesses in DNS servers (non DNSSEC type, & set into recursive mode especially) and also in the TOR system as well (that lends itself to anonymous proxy usage weaknesses I noted above also) and, you'll get to sites you want to, even IF a DNS registrar drops said websites from its tables as shown here Beating Censorship By Routing Around DNS -> [] & even DNSBL also (DNS Block Lists) -> [] as well - DOUBLE-BONUS!


* POSTS ABOUT HOSTS FILES I DID on "/." THAT HAVE DONE WELL BY OTHERS & WERE RATED HIGHLY, 26++ THUSFAR (from +3 -> +1 RATINGS, usually "informative" or "interesting" etc./et al):

  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  APK 20++ POINTS ON HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2010 (w/ facebook known bad sites blocked) -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP CAN DO SAME AS THE "CloudFlare" Server-Side service:2011 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2011 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP & OPERA HAUTE SECURE:2011 -> [] in HOSTS:2009 -> [] IN HOSTS:2009 -> [] in HOSTS:2009 -> [] in HOSTS:2009 -> []
  HOSTS MOD UP:2009 -> [] (still says INSIGHTFUL)
  HOSTS MOD UP vs. botnet: 2012 -> []


Windows 7, VISTA, & Server 2008 have a couple of "issues" I don't like in them, & you may not either, depending on your point of view (mine's based solely on efficiency & security), & if my take on these issues aren't "good enough"? I suggest reading what ROOTKIT.COM says, link URL is in my "p.s." @ the bottom of this post:

1.) HOSTS files being unable to use "0" for a blocking IP address - this started in 12/09/2008 after an "MS Patch Tuesday" in fact for VISTA (when it had NO problem using it before that, as Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 still can)... & yes, this continues in its descendants, Windows Server 2008 &/or Windows 7 as well.

So, why is this a "problem" you might ask?

Ok - since you can technically use either:

a.) (the "loopback adapter address")
b.) (next smallest & next most efficient)
c.) The smallest & fastest plain-jane 0


You can use ANY of those, in order to block out known bad sites &/or adbanners in a HOSTS file this way??

Microsoft has "promoted bloat" in doing so... no questions asked.

Simply because

1.) = 9 bytes in size on disk & is the largest/slowest
2.) = 7 bytes & is the next largest/slowest in size on disk
3.) 0 = 1 byte

(& HOSTS files extend across EVERY webbrowser, email program, or in general every webbound program you use & thus HOSTS are "global" in coverage this way AND function on any OS that uses the BSD derived IP stack (which most all do mind you, even MS is based off of it, as BSD's IS truly, "the best in the business"), & when coupled with say, IE restricted zones, FireFox addons like NoScript &/or AdBlock, or Opera filter.ini/urlfilter.ini, for layered security in this capacity for webbrowsers & SOME email programs (here, I mean ones "built into" browsers themselves like Opera has for example))

MS has literally promoted bloat in this file, making it load slower from disk, into memory! This compounds itself, the more entries your HOSTS file contains... & for instance? Mine currently contains nearly 654,000 entries of known bad adbanners, bad websites, &/or bad nameservers (used for controlling botnets, misdirecting net requests, etc. et al).

Now, IF I were to use My "huge" HOSTS file would be approximately 27mb in size... using (next smallest) it would be 19mb in size - HOWEVER? Using 0 as my blocking IP, it is only 14mb in size. See my point?

(For loads either in the local DNS cache, or system diskcache if you run w/out the local DNS client service running, this gets slower the larger each HOSTS file entry is (which you have to stall the DNS client service in Windows for larger ones, especially if you use a "giant HOSTS file" (purely relative term, but once it goes over (iirc) 4mb in size, you have to cut the local DNS cache client service)))

NO questions asked - the physics of it backed me up in theory alone, but when I was questioned on it for PROOF thereof?

I wrote a small test program to load such a list into a "pascal record" (which is analagous to a C/C++ structure), which is EXACTLY what the DNS client/DNS API does as well, using a C/C++ structure (basically an array of sorts really, & a structure/record is a precursor part to a full-blown CLASS or OBJECT, minus the functions built in, this is for treating numerous variables as a SINGLE VARIABLE (for efficiency, which FORTRAN as a single example, lacks as a feature, @ least Fortran 77 did, but other languages do not))!

I even wrote another that just loaded my HOSTS file's entirety into a listbox, same results... slowest using, next slowest using, & fastest using 0.

And, sure: Some MORE "goes on" during DNS API loads (iirc, removal of duplicated entries (which I made sure my personal copy does not have these via a program I wrote to purge it of duplicated entries + to sort each entry alphabetically for easier mgt. via say, notepad.exe) & a conversion from decimal values to hex ones), but, nevertheless? My point here "holds true", of slower value loads, record-by-record, from a HOSTS file, when the entries become larger.

So, to "prove my point" to my naysayers?

I timed it using the Win32 API calls "GetTickCount" & then again, using the API calls of "QueryPerformanceCounter" as well, seeing the SAME results (a slowdown when reading in this file from disk, especially when using the larger or line item entries in a HOSTS file, vs. the smaller/faster/more efficient 0).

In my test, I saw a decline in speed/efficiency in my test doing so by using larger blocking addresses ( &/or, vs. the smallest/fastest in 0)... proving me correct on this note!

On this HOSTS issue, and the WFP design issue in my next post below?

I also then questioned MS' own staff, even their VP of development (S. Sinofsky) on this here -> [] & other places in their blogs, to get them to tell me WHY this seemingly intentional inefficiency was implemented... & I have YET to get a solid LOGICAL answer on this as to why it was done - THUS, @ this point?

I am convinced they (MS) do NOT have a good reason for doing this... because of their lack of response there on this note. Unless it has something to do with IPv6 (most folks use IPv4 still), I cannot understand WHY this design mistake imo, has occurred, in HOSTS files...


2.) The "Windows Filtering Platform", which is now how the firewall works in VISTA, Server 2008, & Windows 7...

Sure it works in this new single point method & it is simple to manage & "sync" all points of it, making it easier for network techs/admins to manage than the older 3 part method, but that very thing works against it as well, because it is only a single part system now!

Thus, however?

This "single layer design" in WFP, now represents a SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE/ATTACK for malware makers to 'take down'!

(Which is 1 of the 1st things a malware attempts to do, is to take down any software firewalls present, or even the "Windows Security Center" itself which should warn you of the firewall "going down", & it's fairly easy to do either by messaging the services they use, or messing up their registry init. settings)

VS. the older (up to) 3 part method used in Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003, for protecting a system via IP Filtering, the Windows native Firewall, &/or IPSEC. Each of which uses diff. drivers, & layers of the IP stack to function from, as well as registry initialization settings.

Think of the older 3 part design much the same as the reason why folks use door handle locks, deadbolt locks, & chain locks on their doors... multipart layered security.

(Each of which the latter older method used, had 3 separate drivers & registry settings to do their jobs, representing a "phalanx like"/"zone defense like" system of backup of one another (like you see in sports OR ancient wars, and trust me, it WORKS, because on either side of yourself, you have "backup", even if YOU "go down" vs. the opponent)).

I.E.-> Take 1 of the "older method's" 3 part defenses down? 2 others STILL stand in the way, & they are not that simple to take them ALL down...

(Well, @ least NOT as easily as "taking out" a single part defensive system like WFP (the new "Windows Filtering Platform", which powers the VISTA, Windows Server 2008, & yes, Windows 7 firewall defense system)).

On this "single-part/single-point of attack" WFP (vs. Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003's IP stack defense design in 3-part/zone defense/phalanx type arrangement) as well as the HOSTS issue in my post above?

I also then questioned MS' own staff, even their VP of development (S. Sinofsky) on this here -> [] & other places in their blogs, to get them to tell me WHY this seemingly intentional inefficiency was implemented... & I have YET to get a solid LOGICAL answer on this as to why it was done - THUS, @ this point?

I'll stick to my thoughts on it, until I am shown otherwise & proven wrong.


Following up on what I wrote up above, so those here reading have actual technical references from Microsoft themselves ("The horses' mouth"), in regards to the Firewall/PortFilter/IPSec designs (not HOSTS files, that I am SURE I am correct about, no questions asked) from my "Point #2" above?

Thus, I'll now note how:


1.) TCP/IP packet processing paths differences between in how Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 did it (IPSEC.SYS (IP Security Policies), IPNAT.SYS (Windows Firewall), IPFLTDRV.SYS (Port Filtering), & TCPIP.SYS (base IP driver))...

2.) AND, how VISTA/Server 2008/Windows 7 do it now currently, using a SINGLE layer (WFP)...


First off, here is HOW it worked in Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003 - using 3 discrete & different drivers AND LEVELS/LAYERS of the packet processing path they worked in: []

The Cable Guy - June 2005: TCP/IP Packet Processing Paths


The following components process IP packets:

IP forwarding Determines the next-hop interface and address for packets being sent or forwarded.

TCP/IP filtering Allows you to specify by IP protocol, TCP port, or UDP port, the types of traffic that are acceptable for incoming local host traffic (packets destined for the host). You can configure TCP/IP filtering on the Options tab from the advanced properties of the Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) component in the Network Connections folder.

* "Here endeth the lesson..." and, if you REALLY want to secure your system? Please refer to this: []

APK [mailto]

P.S.=> SOME MINOR "CAVEATS/CATCH-22's" - things to be aware of for "layered security" + HOSTS file performance - easily overcome, or not a problem at all:

A.) HOSTS files don't function under PROXY SERVERS (except for Proximitron, which has a filter that allows it) - Which is *the "WHY"* of why I state in my "P.S." section below to use both AdBlock type browser addon methods (or even built-in block lists browsers have such as Opera's URLFILTER.INI file, & FireFox has such as list as does IE also in the form of TPL (tracking protection lists -> [] , good stuff )) in combination with HOSTS, for the best in "layered security" (alongside .pac files + custom cascading style sheets that can filter off various tags such as scripts or ads etc.) - but proxies, especially "HIGHLY ANONYMOUS" types, generally slow you down to a CRAWL online (& personally, I cannot see using proxies "for the good" typically - as they allow "truly anonymous posting" & have bugs (such as TOR has been shown to have & be "bypassable/traceable" via its "onion routing" methods)).

B.) HOSTS files do NOT protect you vs. javascript (this only holds true IF you don't already have a bad site blocked out in your HOSTS file though, & the list of sites where you can obtain such lists to add to your HOSTS are above (& updated daily in many of them)).

C.) HOSTS files (relatively "largish ones") require you to turn off Windows' native "DNS local client cache service" (which has a problem in that it's designed with a non-redimensionable/resizeable list, array, or queue (DNS data loads into a C/C++ structure actually/afaik, which IS a form of array)) - covers that in detail and how to easily do this in Windows (this is NOT a problem in Linux, & it's 1 thing I will give Linux over Windows, hands-down). Relatively "smallish" HOSTS files don't have this problem ( offers 2 types for this).

D.) HOSTS files, once read/loaded, once? GET CACHED! Right into the kernelmode diskcaching subsystem (fast & efficient RAM speed), for speed of access/re-access (@ system startup in older MS OS' like 2000, or, upon a users' 1st request that's "Webbound" via say, a webbrowser) gets read into either the DNS local caching client service (noted above), OR, if that's turned off? Into your local diskcac

Re:Slashdot refuses to stop abuse... apk (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547751)

Fact: it takes amost 2 hours for windows to load a 645,000 lines HOSTS file into the DNS cache. While loading, all DNS queries are blocked. That is neither fast nor efficient.

Eat your words ("big fail")

Re:Slashdot refuses to stop abuse... apk (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548347)

If you're APK, you will disable the caching. And hope that the site you want is at the top of the file.

Don't argue with an idiot. Tepples, that goes for you too. You're just feeding the troll.


Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547753)

sorry, HOST file not implemented in the form of a IBM 402 hardwired control panel.

Re:Slashdot refuses to stop abuse... apk (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548153)

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

* POOR SHOWING TROLLS , & most especially IF that's the "best you've got" - apparently, it is... lol!

Hello, and THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING !! We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.

Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?

Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.

If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.

I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.

Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.

Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.

I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.

If Natalie Portman is not measurable, hot grits are Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!

You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his banning he begins to send a variety of abusive emails to the operator of OSY, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke threatening to sue him for libel, claiming that the APK on OSY was fake.

My reputation as a professional in this field clearly shows in multiple publications in this field in written print, & also online in various GOOD capacities since 1996 to present day. This has happened since I was first published in Playgirl Magazine in 1996 & others to present day, with helpful tools online in programs, & professionally sold warez that were finalists @ Westminster Dog Show 2000-2002.


apk on 4chan []




That was amazing. - []


My, God! It's beatiful. Keep it up, you glorious bastard. - []


Let us bask in its glory. A true modern The Wasteland. - []


put your baby IN ME -- I just read this whole thing. Fuck mod points, WHERE DO I SEND YOU MY MONEY?!!! - []


Oh shit, Time Cube Guy's into computers now... - []


[apk]'s done more to discredit the use of HOSTS files than anyone [else] ever could. - []


this obnoxious fucknuts [apk] has been trolling the internet and spamming his shit delphi sub-fart app utilities for 15 years. - []


this is hilarious. - []


I agree I am intrigued by these host files how do I sign up for your newsletter? - []


Gimme the program that generates this epic message. I'll buy 5 of your product if you do... - []


a pretty well-executed mashup of APK's style - []


a very clever parody of APK - []


Please keep us updated on your AI research, you seem quite good at it. - []


Obviously, it must be Alexander Peter Kowalski. He's miffed at all these imposters... - []


Damn, apk, who the fuck did you piss off this time? Hahahahaahahahahahahaahaha. Pass the popcorn as the troll apk gets pwned relentlessly. - []


I think it's the Internet, about to become sentient. - []


KUDOS valiant AC. - []


Polyploid lovechild of APK, MyCleanPC, and Time Cube --> fail counter integer overflow --> maximum win! - []


You made my day, thanks! - []


Wow. The perfect mix of trolls. Timecube, mycleanpc, gnaa, apk... this is great! - []


truer words were never spoken as /. trolls are struck speechless by it, lol! - []


It's APK himself trying to maintain the illusion that he's still relevant. - []


Mod this up. The back and forth multi posting between APK and this "anti-APK" certainly does look like APK talking to himself. - []


APK himself would be at the top of a sensible person's ban list. He's been spamming and trolling Slashdot for years. - []


Not sure if actually crazy, or just pretending to be crazy. Awesome troll either way. - []


Awesome! Hat off to you, sir! - []


That isn't a parody of Time-cube, it is an effort to counter-troll a prolific poster named APK, who seems like a troll himself, although is way too easy to troll into wasting massive amounts of time on BS not far from the exaggerations above - []


that is Art . Kudos to you, valiant troll on your glorious FP - []


What? - []


It is in fact an extremely well thought out and brilliantly executed APK parody, combined with a Time Cube parody, and with a sprinkling of the MyCleanPC spam. - []


[to apk] er... many people have disproved your points about hosts files with well reasoned, factual arguments. You just chose not to listen and made it into some kind of bizarre crusade. And I'm not the timecube guy, just someone else who finds you intensely obnoxious and likes winding you up to waste your time. - []


it's apk, theres no reason to care. - []


Seems more like an apk parody. - []


That's great but what about the risk of subluxations? - []


Read carefully. This is a satirical post, that combines the last several years of forum trolling, rolled into one FUNNY rant! - []


I can has summary? - []


Trolls trolling trolls... it's like Inception or something. - []


We all know it's you, apk. Stop pretending to antagonize yourself. - []


Now you've made me all nostalgic for USENET. - []


Google APK Hosts File Manager. He's written a fucking application to manage your hosts file. - []


In case you are not aware, the post is a satire of a fellow known as APK. The grammar used is modeled after APK's as you can see here [] . Or, you can just look around a bit and see some of his posts on here about the wonders of host files. - []


You are surely of God of Trolls, whomever you are. I have had stupid arguments with and bitten the troll apk many times. - []


"What kind of meds cure schizophrenic drunk rambling?" -> "Whatever APK isn't taking" - [] []


I'm confused, is apk trolling himself now? - []


Excellent mashup. A++. Would troll again. - []


Best. Troll. Ever. - []


I like monkeys. - []


This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. - []


I admire this guy's persistence. - []


It's a big remix of several different crackpots from Slashdot and elsewhere, plus a liberal sprinkling of famous Slashdot trolls and old memes. - []


APK is a prominent supporter of Monsanto. - []


Here's a hint, check out stories like this one [] , where over 200 of the 247 posts are rated zero or -1 because they are either from two stupid trolls arguing endless, or quite likely one troll arguing with himself for attention. The amount of off-topic posts almost outnumber on topic ones by 4 to 1. Posts like the above are popular for trolling APK, since if you say his name three times, he appears, and will almost endlessly feed trolls. - []


I love this copypasta so much. It never fails to make me smile. - []


^ Champion Mod parent up. - []


I appreciate the time cube reference, and how you tied it into the story. Well done. - []


The day you are silenced is the day freedom dies on Slashdot. God bless. - []


AHahahahah thanks for that, cut-n-pasted.... Ownage! - []


If you're familiar with APK, the post itself is a pretty damn funny parody. - []


">implying it's not apk posting it" --> "I'd seriously doubt he's capable of that level of self-deprecation..." - [] []


No, the other posts are linked in a parody of APK [mailto] 's tendency to quote himself, numbnuts. - []


Just ban any post with "apk", "host file", or "hosts file", as that would take care of the original apk too. The original has been shitposting Slashdot much longer & more intensively than the parody guy. Or ban all Tor exit nodes, as they both use Tor to circumvent IP bans. - []


Sadly this is closer to on-topic than an actual APK post is. - []




I've butted heads with APK myself, and yeah, the guy's got issues - []


Can I be in your quote list? - []


Clearly you are not an Intertubes engineer, otherwise the parent post would be more meaningful to you. Why don't YOU take your meds? - []


+2 for style! The bolding, italicizing, and font changes are all spot-on - []


Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. - []


APK is not really a schizophrenic fired former Windows administrator with multiple personality disorder and TimeCube/Art Bell refugee. He's a fictional character like and put forward by the same person as Goatse Guy, GNAA trolls, Dr. Bob and so forth. His purpose is to test the /. CAPTCA algorithm, which is a useful purpose. If you're perturbed by having to scroll past his screeds just set your minimum point level to 1, as his posts are pretty automatically downmodded right away. - []


I just saw APK a couple days ago. He surfaced, blew once, and submerged... - []


oh man, that incredible interminable list of responses is almost as funny as the original post. This is getting to be truly epic. - []


"Does anyone know of an Adblock rule for this?" -> "No, but I bet there's a hosts file entry for it..." - [] []


"Can a hosts file block apk's posts, though?" -> "The universe couldn't handle that much irony." - [] []


"That's it, I've had enough. ... Bye everyone, most of the last decade or so has been fun, but frankly, I quit." - []
--> "So basically what you're saying is that you've added yourself to the HOST file?" - []


Sweet baby Moses, this is beautiful work - I wish we could get trolls as good as this on TF. :) - []


you have a point - []


I do admire that level of dedication. - []


[to apk] shut up you stupid cock. Everyone knows you're wrong. - []


I will hand it to him, he is definitely consistent. I wish I knew how he did this. That thing is scary huge. - []


I admire the amount of dedication you've shown - []


Word is, ESR buttfucks CmdrTaco with his revolver. - []


Hey APK, Protip: It's not the truth or value (or lack of) in your post that gets it modded into oblivion, it's the fucking insane length. In addition to TL;DR (which goes without saying for a post of such length), how about irritating readers by requiring them to scroll through 20+ screenfuls just to get to the next post. If you want to publish a short story like this, please do everyone a favor and blog it somewhere, then provide a brief summary and link to your blog. Readers intrigued by your summary will go read your blog, and everyone else will just move along at normal /. speed. - []


I like how this post seems to just sum up every Slashdot comment ever without actually saying anything. - []


extremely bright - []


You provide many references, which is good. - []


Obviously very passionate - []


Thanks ... You should probably stay - []


Art? -- []


PROOF apk sucks donkey dick. - []


I've been around /. for a while now, but this post is by far the most unique I've seen. Many have tried, but few achieve the greatness of this AC. My hat's off to you. - []


I think it's hilarious. Get over it! - []


Obviously APK filled his hosts files with backdoors before distributing them to ensure he doesn't block himself. - []


Alexander Peter Kowalski is an obnoxious prick. - []


Don't mention that file. Ever. It'll draw APK like a fly to rotting meat. Last thing I want to read is 80 responses worth of his stupid spam about that file! I swear that cocksucker does nothing but search Slashdot for that term and then spams the entire article. - []


[to apk] You have had it repeatedly explained to you that your posts are long-winded, unpleasant to read due to your absurd formatting style and full of technical inaccuracies borne of your single minded i-have-a-hammer-so-every-problem-is-a-nail attitude. - []


You are my favorite Slashdot poster. - []


Most insightful post on the Internet - []


I read the whole thing *again* just to see if my comment was in there - []


[to apk] So, did your mom do a lot of drugs when she was pregnant? - []


people are looking at me funny because I'm laughing hysterically at what a perfect APK imitation it is. - []


Slashdot devs seem in no hurry to fix this problem and it's been driving me nuts. So for anybody who values viewing at -1 and uses greasemonkey here's a Script [] . There's a chance of false positives and it's not the most optimized. But I value not having to scroll through > 10 paragraphs of APK, custom hosts files, or 'acceptable ads' spam. - []
--> slashdot devs are too busy installing itunes for their hipster nerd buddys to sort this problem out. - []


I can't get enough of all of this good stuff! Thanks for the informative links! - []


When threatened, APK typically produces a post with links showing he's essentially posted this hundreds of times to slashdot stories... - []


[to apk] Your post got downmodded because you're a nutjob gone off his meds. - []


[to apk] The reason people impersonate you is because everyone thinks you're a moron. The hosts file is not intended to be used as you suggest. - []
-->What? You don't have a 14MB hosts file with ~1million entries in it? Next you'll probably tell me that your computer doesn't start thrashing and take 5 minutes for a DNS lookup! - []


[about apk] - this fwit is as thick as a post. worse, this shithead has mod points. and using them. - []


In before the fight between those two guys and their walls of text... - []




KPA ...thgim dik a ekil .s.b laivirt hcus no emit hcum taht etsaw t'ndluow I sa ,ti gniod em TON si ti - syug ON - []


[to apk] You seriously need to go see a shrink. You are a fucking fruitcake! - []


[to apk] Did you ever consider that it's not just one corrupt moderator, it's a bunch of regular slashdot users who infrequently get mod points who think you are totally full of shit? Stop posting annoying off topic irrelevant bullshit, and people won't mod you down. I'm seriously sick of reading your posts about someone impersonating you. - []


[to apk] you should be forced to use a cholla cactus as a butt-plug - []


[to apk] No one is on your side, that is why you're here. posting. still. No one cares. - []


Who's the more moronic? The original moron, or the one who replies to him knowing full well his comment will certainly be ignored, if not entirely unread, thus bringing the insane troll post to the attention of those who would otherwise not have seen it at all (seeing as it started at 0 and would have rapidly been modded down to -1) and whose post (and, somewhat ironically I grant you, this one as well) now requires 3 more mod points to be spent to hide it? - []


[to apk] I miss trollaxor. His gay porn world of slashdot executives and open-source luminaries was infinitely more entertaining than this drivel. - []


PLEASE stop modding biters up. Anyone who responds to an abvious troll, especually one of these APK trolls, should autometically get the same -1 troll as the damned troll. Any response to a troll only makes the troll do more trolling. Come on, guys, use your brains -- it isn't that hard. Stop feeding the damned trolls! - (missing link)


[to apk] Lick the inside of goatse's anus, it's delicious! - []


Excellent post A++++++++++++ would scroll past again!!!! - []


[to apk] You are the one who is pitiful. If you didn't spam /. with your bullshit you wouldn't have spammer 'impostors' doing the same. Just fuck off and die already, ok? Please, really. Step in front of a bus. Drink some bleach. Whatever it takes, just FUCK OFF and DIE. - []


[to apk] From one AC to another please for the love of god, PRINT YOUR HOST FILE OUT AND CRAM IT DOWN YOUR JAPS EYE!!! For fucks sake we don't care we see this and it takes the piss, short of a full frontal lobotomy what will it take to stop you posting this you moronic fuckwit? - []


[to apk] And someone forgot to take his meds today...Are you really that dense that you cant tell that the only reason the "impostor" exists because you have a hard time realizing that you are wrong and/or wont let it go. It would take a complete moron to not realize that the whole reason he continues to do it is because he knows he can get you to respond by simply posting. This isnt rocket science, this is internet 101... Let me offer you some advice on how to get rid of this "impostor"...shutup - []


[to apk] If you had a 'luser' account it wouldn't be a problem. But you don't want one of those, because your long rambling and bizarrely formatted posts mean your karma gets nuked in next to no time. So I guess you just have to work out which is 'worth it'. Posting AC because I don't want to become your latest fixation. - []


I wouldn't be surprised if that is APK trying to draw attention to himself, since he thinks such endless tirades are examples of him winning and make him look good. When people stop paying attention to him, or post actual counterpoints he can't come up with a response to, he'll post strawman troll postings to shoot down, sometimes just copy pasted from previous stories. - []


[to apk] No one wants to read your copy pasted crap. Maybe someone is mocking you because you make it so easy to? So drop it, and participate like an adult please. - []


Seriously.... What. The. Fuck. Can you two homos just go make out on brokeback mountain already, and stop talking about how one of you misspelled "penetration", and how the other cockblocks with their hosts files while grabing the other's goat? Goodness, it sure feels like being in a mountain range, trying to peer around those fucking orbital tether lengthed posts of pure premium bullsit the two of you somehoq manage to keep pushing out on demand. Shit stinks! At this point, i'd be willing to risk the fucking extinction of all life on earth by redirecting siding spring C/2013 1A to miss Mars and land on both of your fucking heads instead. The deaths of billions would be a small price to pay to shut you two cackling lovebirds up! - []


[to apk] Listen up jackass, why the hell would somebody want to impersonate you? You're a certified internet kook. Nobody gives a hot about your 3 gig hosts file. And nobody is impersonating you. You're already a fucking parody. - []


[to apk] You have had it repeatedly explained to you that your posts are long-winded, unpleasant to read due to your absurd formatting style and full of technical inaccuracies borne of your single minded i-have-a-hammer-so-every-problem-is-a-nail attitude. Despite this advice you are convinced that your comments are valuable contributions, ignoring the obvious evidence to the contrary (namely the -1 scores your posts earn on a regular basis). - []


[about apk] Can this be killed off? I don't mean this account, I mean the actual meatbag behind it. - []


[to apk] Get an account retard. If you format your password as crazily as your posts no-one will ever crack it. - []


[to apk] You are the most consistently annoying creature on the internet. There are people worse than you, just like cancer is worse than psoriasis, but you're more like the latter: pervasive, annoying, and always cropping up when one has mostly forgotten about it. You are that indeterminate, continuous itching that slowly erodes someone's mood until they consider cutting off a part of themselves just to stop it for a while. And like psoriasis, you're auto-immune and not fully understood by science. Slashdot continuously makes it worse by scratching that itch over and over again. It's not smart. It just encourages the disease. But everybody's got a limit to their patience. There is no cure for you. But at least, when slashdot dies, you will die with it, and there will be peace. - []


Alexander Peter KowalskI and anyone arguing with him are insane. I saw their crazy tirades once and googled his name, and HOLY SHIT. This guy has mini battle raging all over many sites for some of the most inane shit you can think of. He meticulously catalogs the people who have crossed him and works to MAKE SURE everyone understands they are fools. Now, they well be fools, but by his meticulous and obsessive actions Kowalski (APK) has proved without a shadow of doubt his absolutE insanity. I haven't even argued with this guy so don't think I'm part of these internet crusades. All this I've found by googling his name. The trove of flaming and incomprehensible obsessive agression is humongous and both funny, and pathetic to varying intense degrees. Just google if you are curious about the kinds of crazy that are out there." - []


I'm convinced APK is serious, he has got battles raging everywhere, meticulously catalogued, yet he thinks this is proof of his knowledge and experience, not obsessive insanity. And making that point doesn't make him reconsider, it incites him. He also seems to think what looks like many multiples of people saying this are one or a few people who are out to get him. Just read my post and google Alexander Peter Kowalski. - []


Alexander Peter Kowalski ubuntu touched my junk liberally. he strapped me in to his HOSTS file and he couldnt keep his offensive hands off of me - []


[to apk] Hey man, I know this is important to you, but maybe you should talk to someone outside of the internet about it? I mean, you sound really batshit insane. - []


[to apk] You're an AC and you say you have impersonators? - []


ghod bless you APKtroll for bringing some much needed balance and reason to this thread! - []


[to apk] APK, you suck. Go die in a fire. The hosts file in Windows is a _terrible_ way to filter internet traffic. - []


I'm replying just so you'll add me to your quote list. - []


Best troll post, anywhere, ever. Well done. - []


[to apk] Just please stop the spamming. Get yourself a real life and a girl. That helps most against your troubles. Or at least a cat. - []


Alexander Peter Kowalksi's low intelligence, extreme narcissism, and histrionic personality make him unsuited for anything but menial labor. - []


Fact: it takes amost 2 hours for windows to load a 645,000 lines HOSTS file into the DNS cache. While loading, all DNS queries are blocked. That is neither fast nor efficient. - []


[to apk] it is very disconcerting to see the sort of writing style you introduce as it is a very harsh contrast to the "normal" -- which goes even for non-native English speakers. The amount of fervor you utilize to make this point comes off to me as insanity. You seem to imply there is an unexplained, even conspiratorial effort at Microsoft for sabotaging your preferred host file entry method. You also seem to think you have a reputation which is at stake, and I assure you, aside from your raving posts, I have never heard of you before. The time-cube APK imposter you mention appears to be (at least to me) an adequate parody of your abrasive writing and argument style. The fact that you seem to take such excessive offense to this parody further strengthens the lehman's perception of your insanity. - []




Did you see the movie "Pokemon"? Actually the induced night "dream world" is synonymous with the academic religious induced "HOSTS file" enslavement of DNS. Domains have no inherent value, as it was invented as a counterfeit and fictitious value to represent natural values in name resolution. Unfortunately, human values have declined to fictitious word values. Unknowingly, you are living in a "World Wide Web", as in a fictitious life in a counterfeit Internet - which you could consider APK induced "HOSTS file". Can you distinguish the academic induced root server from the natural OpenDNS? Beware of the change when your brain is free from HOSTS file enslavement - for you could find that the natural Slashdot has been destroyed!!

FROM -> Man - how many times have I dusted you in tech debates that you have decided to troll me by ac posts for MONTHS now, OR IMPERSONATING ME AS YOU DID HERE and you were caught in it by myself & others here, only to fail each time as you have here?)...

So long nummynuts, sorry to have to kick your nuts up into your head verbally speaking.

cower in my shadow some more, feeb. you're completely pathetic.


* :)

Ac trolls' "BIG FAIL" (quoted): Eat your words!

P.S.=> That's what makes me LAUGH harder than ANYTHING ELSE on this forums (full of "FUD" spreading trolls) - When you hit trolls with facts & truths they CANNOT disprove validly on computing tech based grounds, this is the result - Applying unjustifiable downmods to effetely & vainly *try* to "hide" my posts & facts/truths they extoll!

Hahaha... lol , man: Happens nearly every single time I post such lists (proving how ineffectual these trolls are), only showing how solid my posts of that nature are...

That's the kind of martial arts [] I practice.


Disproof of all apk's statements:


RECENT POST LINKS: [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
REPORT MISSING LINKS FOR REWARD (check pastebin archive first)


TIP JAR: 1EtLgU5L3jhmVkDmqrWT9VhoZ1F2jSimHS []
RECEIVED: 0.0195 BTC - thx! ;-)

Debugging that... (5, Insightful)

icebike (68054) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547705)

"THAT", (a wired board), is vastly easier to debug than any modern software. In fact a trainee can usually debug it by trial an error in just a few minutes.
Now get off my digital lawn whipersnapper!

Re:Debugging that... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547761)

Yeah, you just need to get past the wiring shock first. That said, if I tried to turn in something with this kind of wiring for one of my engineering classes, I think I'd have at least one letter grade knocked off.

Re:Debugging that... (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547777)

It's not old, it's hacker resistant :D

Re:Debugging that... (4, Funny)

Dancindan84 (1056246) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547803)

Not if you're hacking with a box cutter.

Debugging that...ladder logic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547801)

That shouldn't shock anyone who's dealt with PLCs.

Re:Debugging that... (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547893)

Not with that kind of wiring. This reminds me of the lab we had in school to build a simple digital circuit with several TTL old style "caterpillar" ICs. A big factor between spending 1:15 like myself and 4:00 hours was having neat wiring. The champ was 45 minutes, which must have been neat wiring, fast hands, and the luck to have everything stick properly in the breadboard the first time. The 4 hour group was (sorry to say this, but it's a fact) Black girls. Big loopy wires over the boards, and every time they tried to fix one connection, they broke another. Painful to watch.

Re:Debugging that... (0, Offtopic)

Joce640k (829181) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548029)

The 4 hour group was (sorry to say this, but it's a fact) Black girls. Big loopy wires over the boards, and every time they tried to fix one connection, they broke another. Painful to watch.

Did they bend the jumper wires into little heart shapes?

Re:Debugging that... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548129)

Did they bend the jumper wires into little heart shapes?

Just about. Original AC here. Now, I'm not a racist at all; but here's what I think was going on (and there are statistics somewhere to back this up). The University of Virginia is where this happened. The University was doing its best to right past wrongs by admitting X% Blacks, or something like that. I don't know if it was actually a quota system; but the SAT scores of Blacks admitted were always lower than the general population.

Once again, to reiterate, I'm not a racist. IMHO, it was hard to find Blacks with scores comparable to the average admission because there is a lingering legacy of segregation and a culture that doesn't encourage literacy. Poverty, etc.; all of that. It doesn't mean Blacks are inferior. It just means that it takes a few generations for a culture that was smacked down to rise back up.

So. A lot of less qualified Blacks were admitted, and being a woman and Black in the E-school? That must have been some kind of diversity bonus prize.

So then the big deal on grounds (not "campus", but that's another rant) is that Blacks were getting tossed out on honor violations more often than Caucasians. Well duh. When you place the burden of "first generation to attend college" on an applicant with SAT scores and grades that really aren't that great, and they start failing... the pressure is enough to make a lot of them cheat.

It's nothing to do with race. It's everything to do with putting a bunch of young people under some strange and terrible pressure in order to carry out what you perceive as "justice".

End rant.

Re:Debugging that... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548069)

niggerets can't wire?

I find it difficult to believe in your sorrow. (3, Funny)

Medievalist (16032) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548205)

The 4 hour group was (sorry to say this, but it's a fact) Black girls. []

Trust me on this, wiring skill isn't normally supposed to depend on possession of a pale pink penis. You're totally doing it wrong.

Re:Debugging that... (1, Insightful)

Politburo (640618) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548257)

Why would you even bring in race when it has nothing to do with the discussion? Somehow I doubt you were "sorry to say" it, especially given the rant below.

Re:Debugging that... (3, Informative)

greyparrot (895758) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547903)

I never actually programmed one, but when I worked at Siemens in Iselin, NJ we had some of these. For physical inventory, we needed it to print the name of the spare part on the card my program punched out of the Spectra 70. So a bunch of old guys from all over the company found themselves poking around on the board. And they were successful too. The inventory cards were beautiful! To take inventory, the warehouse people wrote the count on the card, we had it punched at the end, and fed back into the Spectra. (We ran COBOL on that, 64 K of memory allowed even the SORT to run.) Good old days!

Re:Debugging that... (1)

Peter Simpson (112887) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548065)

Easy to debug when all you can do is add, subtract, count and print! Much more challenging if you have a reproducing punch hooked up to generate the YTD summary cards... Been there, done that and glad to have C.

Re:Debugging that... (1)

Two99Point80 (542678) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548223)

Guess what: those jumper wires can break internally but still look okay on the outside. I found *that* out on a 402 I was taught how to program in the late 1960s. Took a while to find the bug...

If it ain't broke... (1)

dontbemad (2683011) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547727)

don't fix it.

Re:If it ain't broke... (5, Insightful)

0racle (667029) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547741)

The problem with that can end up being "when it is broke, how are you going to fix it?"

Re:If it ain't broke... (4, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548081)

The problem with that can end up being "when it is broke, how are you going to fix it?"

I mostly agree with you, but I've also been on a couple of projects trying to replace 30+ year old custom-built mainframe applications.

I've seen a couple where people try to replace it with more modern software, but nothing which isn't built from scratch can even come close. It usually lacks 30-40 years of tweaks and fixes to do everything they need, often completely changes the workflow, and opens up vast amounts of data transformation you need to do to pull in all of the legacy data into the new system.

I've seen several of these projects fail after a significant amount of time and money was sunk into it as people realized it wasn't possible to build something which did all of the same things.

Sometimes, no matter how hard you try, it can be an exceedingly expensive thing to replace old systems like that. So much so that it isn't feasible for companies to really undertake it.

However, that just pushes out the problem, and sooner or later, you end up with a defunct system and no replacement.

Re:If it ain't broke... (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548337)

I read somewhere that IBM actually has a program to read in the old punch cards and emulate the system on something more modern. I couldn't find it it with a quick google search, but apparently IBM has a migration plan.

Re:If it ain't broke... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547849)

And I thought doing accounting on an IBM P3 (1.0ghz!) was 'old school'!!! :)

Re:If it ain't broke... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548119)

don't fix it.

From the article: "Wood says the cards are slowly being phased out in favor of PCs, but she wasn't sure when."

Re:If it ain't broke... (1)

TWX (665546) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548135)

don't fix it.

There's a point when the sheer number of paradigm shifts has made the implemented way silly. The power requirements alone should indicate that. I think that the IC in my computer keyboard is powerful enough to handle all of their tasks.

If you ever watch the Terry Gilliam film Brazil, pay attention to the tech. They took a basic tech and never expanded on it to improve it properly. Instead one had three inch screens with Fresnel lenses to make the image bigger, typewriters with electrical switches for keyboards, and such.

Re:If it ain't broke... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548137)

That's what they said at that fertilizer plant too. Hey, Mexico - any chance you guys still want Texas back? They're kind of fucking things up, and their airhead governor wants to secede anyway. You can have them back if you want.

The manager's moto (5, Insightful)

Dancindan84 (1056246) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547735)

"If it ain't broke, don't replace it. Even if replacing it would lead to a 3 fold increase in employee productivity."

or a parts cost more then a full new system (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547811)

or a parts cost more then a full new system

I'll reply to you. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547869)

"If it ain't broke, don't replace it. Even if replacing it would lead to a 3 fold increase in employee productivity."

A few other folks posted something similar above at the same time.

Anyway, if I were in charge, here's what I'd do:

Look at the power consumption of the machine. It's probably a lot.

Have the accountant write the specs for what that was to do.

Buy the accountant ANY damn laptop they wanted.

Sell that old machine to some computer collector that would pay through the nose to acquire.

Profit. Or at least, it would compensate the costs of moving the system to something a little more modern - a MS Office App is probably all this company needs or an intranet web app.

Why upgrade?

That machine is gonna die one day.

Having something a little more modern will allow for growth and integration.

Re:The manager's moto (1)

Capt.DrumkenBum (1173011) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548201)

Even if replacing it would lead to a 3 fold increase in employee productivity.

I have seen those kinds of productivity increase numbers thrown around for years, but honestly I have never see a good result. Usually the new system is slower.

Re:The manager's moto (1)

H0p313ss (811249) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548261)

Even if replacing it would lead to a 3 fold increase in employee productivity.

I have seen those kinds of productivity increase numbers thrown around for years, but honestly I have never see a good result. Usually the new system is slower.

I was going to say something similar, you usually end up exchanging the problems and limitations of the old system for a the problems and limitations of the new system which is rarely faster and usually requires even more maintenance. Very rarely does the TCO savings, if any, match the cost of implementing the new system.

That said, sometimes you have to just bite the bullet.

Re:The manager's moto (1)

Capt.DrumkenBum (1173011) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548361)

Yeah, sometimes you have to bite the bullet, but I tend to think the biggest reason should be: "Who is going to fix this thing in 10 years when Bill is retired or dead?"

Re:The manager's moto (2)

D1G1T (1136467) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548203)

I'm gonna bet that they already have a spreadsheet worked up to replace it when it dies. People run stuff like this because they LIKE it. Like those of us who still pull out our old 15C calculators and program them to solve a real problem even though excel would be faster. They are lucky that management permits them to have a little fun at work. Fun = productivity.

Re:The manager's moto (1)

Jawnn (445279) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548311)

"If it ain't broke, don't replace it unless you can't fix it when it does break. Then you should work on replacing it as soon as possible. Even if replacing it would lead to a 3 fold increase in employee productivity."


I used to write programs in PL1/PLC on punch cards (3, Interesting)

mark_reh (2015546) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547745)

at Florida Technological University (now called UCF). I remember a few instances of seeing people trip or drop stacks or boxes of cards on the floor and then crying when they had try to reorder them to get their program to work.

Re:I used to write programs in PL1/PLC on punch ca (3, Interesting)

greyparrot (895758) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547823)

Yeah, so did I. You were supposed to use the last 6 columns for a number that you could use in sorting the cards. We also used markers so you could line up the cards based on the position of a diagonal stripe on the edge. PL/1 - what a language! I had to write an assembler in PL/1. It was a great way to learn what we used to call "structured programming".

Re:I used to write programs in PL1/PLC on punch ca (1)

codegen (103601) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547855)

That why you use sequence numbers in 73-80. Been there, done that. But only did it once.

Re:I used to write programs in PL1/PLC on punch ca (5, Informative)

Peter Simpson (112887) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548051)

Drawing a diagonal line across the top of the deck is faster and lets you insert cards without having to resequence.,..

Re:I used to write programs in PL1/PLC on punch ca (1)

karstdiver (541054) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547865)

Learned quickly to run a magic marker squiggly line over the top of those card decks...

Re:I used to write programs in PL1/PLC on punch ca (2)

cardpuncher (713057) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547997)

That's why smart people punched sequence numbers in columns 73-80. It helped if you had access to a card sorter, otherwise you'd incur machine time using the sort program to punch a new deck.

There was a lot of standalone electromechanical hardware (not just punches and sorters) to support punched card data processing - my mother (now 80) worked for a utility company in the 50s and alternated her time between doing data entry (card punch) and data verification - essentially retyping the data on a card verifier with the punched card in place to check the data entry was correct.

Actually, an early version of the IBM FORTRAN compiler (for a real computer) marked the cards according to the statement type on a lexical analysis pass and then sorted the cards by that field so it could load the compiler code that dealt with each particular type of statement in turn (the computer having very little memory). The generated code was then resorted to match the original program card sequence.

Re:I used to write programs in PL1/PLC on punch ca (1)

Rene S. Hollan (1943) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548007)


c. 1977, cutting my teath on "real programming" in Fortran, and CDC 6600 Assembler with punched cards (post HP2000 Basic -- everyone starts with Basic - in high school). We did have a few plugboard computers, including at least one analog computer, as well.

Re:I used to write programs in PL1/PLC on punch ca (2)

Joce640k (829181) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548077)

seeing people trip or drop stacks or boxes of cards on the floor and then crying

Grab a marker pen and draw some diagonal lines/crosses on the edges of the stack. You can easily see which ones are out of order.

You can also see if anybody has swapped a couple of them around as a "joke".

Re:I used to write programs in PL1/PLC on punch ca (1)

emeyer (30603) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548363)

I went there when it was still called FTU. I remember the exact same thing. I remember seeing someone drop a large box of cards in the Florida rain which of course meant they lost everything. I went there 1977-78 ... when were you there?


And I thought I was all "1337" (2)

mmcxii (1707574) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547747)

My working C=64 ain't got nothing on this fine machine.

Re:And I thought I was all "1337" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548037)

I have a functional Osborne 1 that I might be convinced to let them upgrade to. :)

Re:And I thought I was all "1337" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548131)

I'll savor my working C65 prototype over a C64 any day.

Points at IBM 402 (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547781)


More realiable (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547813)

I wouild rather use this than trusting Microsoft products to manage my accounts

nice. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547825)

My dad had an Altair 8080 CP/M machine that he build in 75 and ran in his business until well after the turn of the century.

But Can You Get Spare Parts? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547863)

It it ain't broke, don't fix it.

How much power does that beast consume? (2)

Radak (126696) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547871)

And now long would you have to run it to spend the same amount of money it takes to buy modern equipment and pay for someone to convert your accounting over?

I like "if it ain't broke" in general, but this thing has to be a massive power drain, and when it finally does break, they're likely going to be screwed.

Re:How much power does that beast consume? (2)

admdrew (782761) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548157)

I think the "when it finally breaks" issue is probably of bigger importance than the power draw. Generally (and what others in this thread have already alluded to), a conversion may be far more complex/time consuming than we might think. Future functionality is one thing, but migrating old data to a new system can sometimes be very difficult, especially for something as important as accounting. And you usually need someone with intimate knowledge of the legacy system, which can require massive reverse-engineering if the system is older than most of your employees.

I still use punch cards ... (4, Funny)

perpenso (1613749) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547875)

While in college there was still a working punch card machine on campus. Our intro to computer science professor made us write our first program using punch cards. He said we would get two things out of it. We would understand why some things are the way they are with respect to programming languages and command lines. And we would have book marks for life (the program was short but we had to buy a deck of blanks at the bookstore). I still use these cards for bookmarks.

So let me see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547883)

In 1973 a small company could buy a computer to keep books, so well it can still be used today, but just ten years earlier, NASA, with a budget of 6% of the USA's GDP, wasn't able to use computers to help design the F-1 engines?

"imagine debugging that" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547887)

I think that's the point here. It WORKS, so you don't have to. I'm sure all sorts of dipshit hipster technolibertardians are salivating at the mouth to replace a simple system that works with an iPad app and keeping all their data in a "cloud" service, increasing their costs a thousandfold, reducing the reliability of their systems and giving them more complexity for no gain other than to stay buzzword compliant and keep a sad bunch of brogrammers supplied with horn rimmed glasses and pabst for another week.

It's not broken, so let's break it (SAP). (4, Interesting)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547891)

Company where I worked decided there perfectly fine AS/400 systems were not good enough and would save lots of money replacing the 20 year old system with SAP.

Hilarity ensued.

(and lots of 70 hour weeks... only 5% implemented with 15 years worth of projected savings already spent).

Re:It's not broken, so let's break it (SAP). (1)

sandytaru (1158959) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547981)

I once met a guy who said that when his company ditched his AS/400, he'd take it as a sign to retire. Smart man.

Re:It's not broken, so let's break it (SAP). (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548017)

They may work fine 'now'. But planing for them going kaput is not a bad plan...

Re:It's not broken, so let's break it (SAP). (3, Funny)

greyparrot (895758) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548093)

Jah, SAP. World's slowest suicide method.

Re:It's not broken, so let's break it (SAP). (2)

jellomizer (103300) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548165)

SAP has been known to bring down companies, do to poor IT management, they try to use the system to replace the existing ones, vs. changing the organization to work with the new system.

Not very Green (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43547901)

Wouldn't the power savings of replacing the computer and all the peripherals justify the replacement of all that with even an entry level PC, from 10 years ago?

Re:Not very Green (1)

Joce640k (829181) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548117)

It might ... if you don't count the man-hours needed to rewrite the software and the constant effort needed to keep a 10-year-old PC from imploding.

Re:Not very Green (2)

ponraul (1233704) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548385)

This computer only has to be on when it's actually processing/tabulating. It's only getting juice for the 20 or so minutes a day you're processing payroll or the day's invoices. Your office PC never gets turned off.

Just one question...WHY?? (2)

dubdays (410710) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547915)

Kind of like mowing the lawn with a pair of scissors. Yeah, I'm sure it could be done.

no (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548035)

kind of like your lawn is already mowed automatically by a machine that does it exactly like you need it even though the parts are like 60 years old.

for some reason you don't bother spending thousands of dollars and lots of time buying and configuring a new mower that probably won't do exactly what you want or last 60 years.

it's called "not being stupid," you should try it sometime

Re:no (1)

jellomizer (103300) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548241)

To be more realistic, the guy who operates that machine will be retiring in a few years, the people who are willing and able to work it want to be paid premium bucks, also have a tenancy of having a huge ego problem that makes them difficult to work with. The new system is easier to find guys who can do the work, and they will be more willing to work with you.

Re:no (2)

dubdays (410710) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548339)

No offense AC, but there is an element of "stupid" to doing this. How are you going to fix it if it breaks, and more importantly, what will it cost? Also, the same thing could very likely be done with off the shelf commodity hardware and some cheap (or free) accounting software. Accounting productivity would be DRAMATICALLY increased just in the amount of time saved each day. Sounds to me like someone in that company is lacking some serious business sense. Punched cards had their day, but that day is long gone.

Is this an old story? (3, Informative)

Animats (122034) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547929)

I thought the Computer History Museum got that IBM 402. There's one in the Computer History Museum now. They may have the machine the company was using for parts.

Here it is running in Conroe, TX [] in 2011. (Terrible video, though)

Re:Is this an old story? (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548055)

Most of those "parts" in that photo can be purchased at a hardware store!

Wow (4, Funny)

geek (5680) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547933)

And people bitch about XP users hanging onto an old and obsolete system.

Re:Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548045)

I understand choosing XP over any other version of Windows.
I don't understand choosing XP over any version of any other (post-DOS) OS.

no harder than debugging wire-wrap circuits (1)

Chirs (87576) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547977)

I took an embedded systems course in university (Engineering Physics program)....we had to build boards up from components, write software in assembly, and then load it into the hardware and cause the hardware to do stuff.

My longest debug session was when I couldn't figure out why my software wasn't working properly...turned out that my team-mates had mis-wired the stepper motor. Once I figured out exactly how they had screwed up the wiring I was able to compensate in software and it worked perfectly.

026 (5, Informative)

Peter Simpson (112887) | about a year and a half ago | (#43547995)

That's an 026 keypunch he's leaning on, not a 129.

I've lost track of the software... (4, Interesting)

satch89450 (186046) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548009)

...that would take documentation of the plugboard wiring of the old 400 series "accounting machines" and produce source that would work exactly the same as the accounting machine, give 80-column card images for the data. It wouldn't emulate any cross-connects to other tab equipment (sorters, punches, interpreters) but it did a wonderful job of moving plug-board programming to the more modern computers (360, in particular). Anyone know where that software might be? As I recall, it was on a micro-spool of magnetic tape originally, purchased at user group meetings. Time to google...nothing so far...

Stupid Stupid Stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548023)

They're paying a huge electricity bill to run a task and iPhone would run faster.

Someone should be fired (4, Insightful)

frovingslosh (582462) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548031)

OK, I get it, Sparkler hates trees. But the insanity of someone protecting their job by never updating technology is just amazing. I would love to see what they have spent on maintenance over the years for that electromechanical junk. And I really wonder where they are getting punch cards. Can you even get them any more, or are they having a printer make custom batches for them? And, of course, there is no really useable backup of all of the company's data for when the inevitable final failure hits. For less than the cost of their next punch card order they could be on a modern system with performance and good data backup. But then I guess that Lutricia Wood might be concerned that others might be able to do thing that only the high priestess of data systems does now. Good thing that she will live forever and never retire, otherwise Sparkler would be in a very bad position.

Re:Someone should be fired (3, Informative)

admdrew (782761) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548199)

someone protecting their job by never updating technology is just amazing

That may be part of it, but generally an overhaul of an entire system like that, especially something as integral to a business as accounting, isn't a decision any single person can make. Also, it's possible those who would've had job security by maintaining that system have long since retired. Slow-moving business isn't completely built on nefarious intentions.

So i wonder how this was discovered? (4, Funny)

nimbius (983462) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548053)

accounting intern:"damn, looks like the microwave is getting repaired. wanna go out for bbq?"
accounting director:"we dont have a microwave. you mean the accounting computer down the hall??"
BOFH:"so heres the dead man that just pushed a hot pocket into the 402 and took down payroll! let me get the punch cards kid, you're in for a fun night."

Re:So i wonder how this was discovered? (5, Funny)

greyparrot (895758) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548229)

I found one (or two) of these once as part of a study. The old M-- H-- bank was going to replace some important system, and I was on the illustrious crew of analysts documenting all its interfaces. One of them was a deck of cards that was output at the end of the run. So very early one morning I followed it from the output room to the mail room, and then the wagon to an office, where the cards were placed on the desk of the person who ran that machine. She and her young assistant ran them through the machine, which duplicated them and added some columns, probably totals of some kind. Then they took the new deck and loaded it into another of the same sort of machine, programmed differently. It read the cards and printed a report. Then she put a rubber band around the report and cards, and it went back on the mail cart. I followed it down the hall and to another floor, where it arrived on someone's desk.
He picked it up and threw it into the trash.
When I wrote it up, nobody wanted to believe me.

Re:So i wonder how this was discovered? (5, Funny)

rgbscan (321794) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548393)

It's funny how those things persist. Years ago, I took over a mainframe data processing department. Every month I would be sent a fan-fold report on that old school tractor fed paper that took up a whole copy paper box. It literally was a 50 pound report. I had no idea what it was for, nor did anyone else. It went straight into the shredder. Every month a new bundle would show up. I sent it straight to the shredder. Didn't even look at it. The box came interoffice mail with no return address and there wasn't any identifying information on the report for me to figure out where it came from or how to get it shut off. Not even a report identifier I could look for in the mainframe. I can't imagine how much time, paper, and impact printer ribbon went into it. I mean, how would you even look for anything on that report? Kept coming every month for the whole 4 years I managed that department. I hear it finally and mysteriously, stopped showing up a year or two ago. The new manager has no explanation for it's demise but it was a good thing. /Shrug

Re:So i wonder how this was discovered? (3, Informative)

MikeTheGreat (34142) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548321)

Whoops - this was funny but I accidentally mod'd it as "Overrated"

I can't seem to find a way to undo/change my moderation.

So I guess I'll do this, instead :/

Antique? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548059)

And I thought my alma mater was out-of-touch running an IBM 7094 (w/ core in oil!) in 1976 as its main campus computer.

What a bunch of n00bs! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548089)

At this company, we use difference engines. And that's the way we like it!

Can it run crysis? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548141)

But can it run crysis?

Let's load it up with 10,000+ punch cards.

It's not a matter of "if it ain't broke, don't fix (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548145)

It's not a matter of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Even if it correctly does the computations it's supposed to do, it's doing it at a cost probably thousands of times of what it would cost with a non-obsolete system. Power costs, paying someone with the incredibly rare skill set needed to operate that machine, repair labor/costs, etc.

It's no different than, say, using manual labor to grow corn. Sure, it can be done, but at a cost manyfold of using modern techniques.

Replacing operator (1)

sinij (911942) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548149)

Replacing this dated equipment will also result in replacing operator, and that can have all kinds of hidden costs. If someone worked for your business for 40 years and is loyal and productive employee, then why do you care if they want to do it with punch cards or abacus? They had 40 years to prove that whatever they are doing works, unless there are new process requirements, there is no reason to change

Decision chart:

1. Did any processes change or about to change? Yes/No

Yes - Go To 3.
No - Go To 2.

2. Job gets done? Yes/No

Yes - leave it alone.
3. No - look into optimizing/fixing.

Re:Replacing operator (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548293)

That's a recipe for very poor management.

It's also important to assess the cost/benefit of a process. If process A and process B can both do a job equally well, but process A costs 1,000x process B, it makes no sense to use A.

Just how much wasted money has gone into maintaining and using that antiquated system? How many man hours alone have been wasted transferring data in and our of that monstrosity?

the very definition... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548167)

...of spaghetti code!

One vacuum tube away from disaster (3, Insightful)

BenJeremy (181303) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548171)

One critical irreplaceable part breaks, and they can no longer process payroll or inventory.

All because they don't want to hire somebody to spend a week or two to replace the functionality of that obscene waste of energy with a simple spreadsheet. The simple value of data security, not to mention the inter-operability between the data generated and things like, I dunno... check printing and direct deposit, for example, seems obvious.

I'd also guess there would be a lot less work for their accounting department. Either they could save the expense of one or two peoples' salaries, or at least spread the workload savings among the staff. In any event, it simply doesn't make sense not to modernize it.

Article title (1)

nitehawk214 (222219) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548191)

"Don't mess with Texas's old computers."

Seriously, don't mess with them or they will stop working. I feel like just taking a picture of the insides of that thing will make it fall apart.

Re:Article title (1)

nitehawk214 (222219) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548237)

Also, the label on the computer says "new A/R daily invoice"

New... in the 1960s.

I've seen this before (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548195)

adds new meaning to the term "spaghetti code"

It's a Zeberpupin System! (2)

cervesaebraciator (2352888) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548207)

PHB [] : "I want to fire Wally, but I can't risk it. He says he's the only one who can program the Zeberpupin system." Wally [] : "The word you're trying to think of is 'indispensable.'"

Indiana Jones says (2)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548275)


Support contract (1)

bartjan (197895) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548291)

How much is the IBM support contract for this?

Banks still using OS/2 Warp3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year and a half ago | (#43548379)

Banks still using OS/2 Warp3 with custom programs and too expensive to replace. Using ISA boards, motherboards, and cpu's you can't find reliable replacement parts for.

Mechanical Computers are Best (1)

EmagGeek (574360) | about a year and a half ago | (#43548387)

Especially the ones that don't even need punch cards to run. Mechanical computers can handle everything from algebra to complex calculus, and are completely impervious to EMP or hacking (except, perhaps being literally hacked, like with a hacksaw).

Take this one for example: []

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