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49 comments

Bye, bye BMC (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43644093)

You will be leveraged buyout to death.

Re:Bye, bye BMC (2)

Bigby (659157) | about a year ago | (#43644349)

...of which each spinoff component will be more efficient than the whole.

Re:Bye, bye BMC (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43644435)

of which each spinoff component will be more efficient than the whole.

That remains to be seen. Given the history of leveraged buyouts, more likely it will be chopped up and the IP sold off to competitors. Spinning off companies doesn't pay the bills, and this one now has a 7 billion dollar bill.

Re:Bye, bye BMC (1)

Bigby (659157) | about a year ago | (#43656019)

And that is less efficient? Apparently, in that case, the IP was the only thing of value. Keeping a failing company open only delays the inevitable. Destroying it quickly allows for reallocation to happen more quickly.

Efficient? Never in a LBO. (5, Informative)

ReallyEvilCanine (991886) | about a year ago | (#43644879)

The first thing that will happen is that the golden parachutes of the execs who okayed this will be repacked once they can no longer influence it, and their money will most likely be tied in corporate paper which will become worthless because...

The buyers will pay themselves huge "consulting" fees and borrow at least three times the company's value/worth, spending none of it on growth and everything on themselves and their premier shareholders. The hollowed out shell will be saddled with impossible debt as jobs are wiped out, shipped away, and a fragile shell of a company will pretend as long as it can that it's still viable, scrrewing everyone and everything in its past.

You can watch their m.o. in the histories of Kay-Bee Toys, Dunkin Donuts, and Continental Bakeries just to name a few off the top of my head.

Re:Efficient? Never in a LBO. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43646129)

Add Toys'R'Us to the list of Bain "conquests"

Re:Efficient? Never in a LBO. (1)

Safety Cap (253500) | about a year ago | (#43646263)

I applied to BMG a few years ago. Thank dog I didn't get the job (they weren't "ready" to hire, but were "ready" to interview)...

And now all those people will be on the street in a few-18 months.

*cackle*

Better check my 401k and make sure none of it holds NASDAQ:BMC. That thing is going to drop like a rock.

Re:Efficient? Never in a LBO. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43647837)

What about the "going private" part don't you understand? You bet your ass that your 401k won't hold any BMC. It's not going to drop either - it's going to disappear.

Again? (3, Funny)

arth1 (260657) | about a year ago | (#43644151)

I thought Leyland had already bought BMC.

Apologies to Roger Stirling (1)

Karl Cocknozzle (514413) | about a year ago | (#43644181)

"From one john's bed to the next!"

Bain Capital? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43644211)

Soooo Mitt Romney is at it again!

Another company moving to China (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43644225)

Its funny. Romney and the neo-cons ran around screaming against China, but they are the fastest to send companies and technology to them.

Re:Another company moving to China (2)

alen (225700) | about a year ago | (#43644387)

romney is not a neo-con

he happens to be a former republican governor of a liberal state where he passed a government health care law that became the model for the current ObamaCare

Re:Another company moving to China (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43644865)

Romney is very much a neo-cons. First off, the O'Care was from Nixon's admin. Interestingly, the dems fought it back then. Then Romney signed on it, but it was not his baby. It was a compromise between dems and him.

Make no mistake, romney is a neo-con.

Re:Another company moving to China (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43645389)

Romney is the ultimate flipflop. In a liberal state he behaves like a liberal but when he won the republican primary he all of sudden was against health care, against abortion, and against taxes. All of which he was for as governor.

The reason the Dems didn't buy into Nixon's health care plan is because they wanted more and screwed up and ended with nothing.

Re:Another company moving to China (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43645863)

Republicans as a whole are the ultimate footwear in the flip-flop department. They devised, implemented, and signed off on the current healthcare plan, only to steadfastly denounce and block it when it was endorsed by a Democrat. Much of what Obama has or has tried to pass was once championed by Republicans, who now decry it as "socialist" or "unAmerican". In a handful of years, when their guy is in office, they'll be back to pushing these very same currently unpalatable ideas.

Meet the new masters; same as the old masters.

Re:Another company moving to China (2)

lgw (121541) | about a year ago | (#43647467)

Make no mistake, romney is a neo-con.

Neo-con: a conservative who supports a strong-pro-Israel middle easy policy. I don't think Romney had a position either way on that - he was pretty focused on domestic stuff. "Neo-con" doesn't mean "those guys I hate" - you can still just say "those guys I hate", it's OK.

Re:Another company moving to China (1)

bmo (77928) | about a year ago | (#43649441)

Neo-con: a conservative who supports a strong-pro-Israel middle east policy. I don't think Romney had a position either way on that

His whole foreign policy page was *titled* "American Century" and he gave a speech on a "New American Century."

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2011-10-07/politics/35277977_1_clarity-of-american-purpose-mitt-romney-isolationist-shell [washingtonpost.com]

He didn't think of that on his own. His foreign policy page and speech echoed the Project for a New American Century and its descendant the Foreign Policy Initiative.

Listen to his speech, then read this:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm [newamericancentury.org]

Then look at the signatories.

And read the FPI statement:

http://www.foreignpolicyi.org/about [foreignpolicyi.org]

Former members of PNAC are now members of FPI. Indeed, 3 of the 4 board members of FPI were Romney's foreign policy advisors. Dan Senor (his head foreign policy wonk) said on Meet The Press that we'd unquestionably back Israel in an invasion of Iran. Romney didn't back away from that.

Romney is a neocon.

We narrowly escaped having to pay for a *third* war in the middle-east.

--
BMO

Re:Another company moving to China (1)

gmhowell (26755) | about a year ago | (#43649937)

Make no mistake, romney is a neo-con.

Neo-con: a conservative who supports a strong-pro-Israel middle easy policy. I don't think Romney had a position either way on that - he was pretty focused on domestic stuff. "Neo-con" doesn't mean "those guys I hate" - you can still just say "those guys I hate", it's OK.

As a devout Mormon, he most likely did have a pretty strong Israel policy.

Re:Another company moving to China (1)

TheSeatOfMyPants (2645007) | about a year ago | (#43650755)

Actually, ObamaCare's model is from a Bush I/Clinton-era plan. Bush submitted the individual mandate as a proposal, then in 1993 the conservative Congress tried to pass a variant as the Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act, which was -- like Obamacare -- an individual mandate with penaties for non-compliance. (See the third paragraph of this section [wikipedia.org] in Wikipedia's ObamaCare article.) Romney's plan was considered important because it was the first time it was actually enacted, thus demonstrating that they could attempt something like it without causing total disaster.

The plan itself has always been conservative-corporatarian in nature, though. The reason it has been picked up by the Democrats is essentially that politicians in general have become increasingly conservative & capitalist over time, so the Democrats of today tend to be very similar to average Republican politicians ~2 decades earlier. When it comes to Romney, he seems to follow the same path that most politicians do regardless of which party they belong to: aiming for what they perceive as centrism when elected at the local or state level, then shifting strongly in favor of conservative-corporatarian soon after being elected at the Federal level.

Re:Another company moving to China (1)

ganjadude (952775) | about a year ago | (#43644393)

you DO know romney has no power at bain anymore right?

Re:Another company moving to China (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43644725)

You mean that Romney has zero power at an LLC in which he was listed as the ONLY shareholder and partner until about 9 years ago, and he still remains the owner with more than 50% of the holdings. That LLC?

There is a BIG difference between a PRIVATE LLC and a public inc. Romney has ALL of the power and can call any shot that he wants.

Must be a New Footprints Version coming out. (1)

Deathlizard (115856) | about a year ago | (#43644269)

Every Time Footprints [numarasoftware.com] Up's a version, The Company gets bought out.

So far...
BMC
Numara
Unipress
Footprints Software
And I'm probably missing a company or two in there.

Goodbye BMC! (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43644373)

I was on the receiving end of a Golden Gate Capital acquisition, management was gutted and everything that made our company a success for over 40 years was thrown to the wind.

Those of us that were left had to pick up the slack with inexperienced management and shaky client relationships. It wasn't long before most of the senior developers in our branch hit the eject button making things worse.

Then they took away benefits and put on a wage freeze, it became apparent by the end that really they just wanted the clients we had but not our business.

Which was sad, for a time we had something great.

Re:Goodbye BMC! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43645967)

It will be interesting to see what happens when they start offshoring jobs. Some of BMC's biggest clients will be unhappy to see China doing development/sustainment, if you catch my drift.

Re: Goodbye BMC! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43648421)

Hardly. All the Patrol support is done out of India now, so they've been offshoring for years.

Re:Goodbye BMC! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43659165)

Frontrange?

Time to begin your migrations... (1)

rnturn (11092) | about a year ago | (#43644549)

Patrol -> Nagios

Control-M -> ????

before the licensing costs go through the roof.

(I predict that they'll be laying off software developers once Bain starts "improving" the business.)

Bad price to potential debt ratio (5, Insightful)

T.E.D. (34228) | about a year ago | (#43644909)

This is the sad fate in store for companies that are relatively cheap to buy compared to how much debt they can still take on.

Some vulture capital [realclearpolitics.com] firm will swoop in, borrow a bunch of money to take them over, then force the poor company to pay them back for the takeover costs, plus every other last cent the victim is now capable of borrowing. They make millions (sometimes) billions without risking a cent once the takeover is complete.

Everybody wins. Well, except perhaps for the banks and their investors when the companies go backrupt. And the workers who thought they were dedicating their toil to making products people wanted, not creating temporary paper value for rich folks to come in and loot.

This is why they call themselves "job craters". They don't spell it that way in print of course, but we all know what they mean when they say it.

Re:Bad price to potential debt ratio (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43645321)

And the workers who thought they were dedicating their toil to making products people wanted

Having been involved in implementing a big pile of BMC stuff here at work, I've gotta say that I don't think any of those are at BMC.

Re:Bad price to potential debt ratio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43646811)

And the workers who thought they were dedicating their toil to making products people wanted

Having been involved in implementing a big pile of BMC stuff here at work, I've gotta say that I don't think any of those are at BMC.

I just have to agree with that.

Re:Bad price to potential debt ratio (1)

PhamNguyen (2695929) | about a year ago | (#43646395)

Your post contains a lot of contradictions.

First, private equity firms do invest a lot of their own money in the firms they buy (hence the name. They invest private money (that of their owners/shareholders) into equity by buying firms). If they didn't banks would be rightly suspicious of the deal since the private equity firm would get paid no matter what happened.

Second, because of this, it is in the interests of the private equity firm that the company do well. In theory, if the PE firm bought a controlling share (say 51%) they would be in a position to screw over the remaining 49%, for example by selling the firm's assets to some other company owned by the PE firm, at a discount rate. This would most likely be illegal. Apart from this mechanism, the interests of the PE firm are exactly the same as the remaining shareholders: to get as much money from the firm as possible.

Finally, if it is more profitable to sell a companies assets and fire all its workers, then this is a good thing. If you don't already believe this then I don't have space to prove it in this post, but the general idea is that labor and capital are just like any other commodity, and so a company whose share price today is less than the value of its in place assets, is like a giant inefficient machine that consumes capital and labor for what is effectively negative profit.

Re:Bad price to potential debt ratio (1)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | about a year ago | (#43651393)

First, private equity firms do invest a lot of their own money in the firms they buy (hence the name. They invest private money (that of their owners/shareholders) into equity by buying firms). If they didn't banks would be rightly suspicious of the deal since the private equity firm would get paid no matter what happened.

Not exactly. They invest some "own" money and borrow the rest from a bank. The bank has no conscience either, so it is also in it. It is a kind of slavery where the slaves have to pay for their own chains.

Second, because of this, it is in the interests of the private equity firm that the company do well. In theory, if the PE firm bought a controlling share (say 51%) they would be in a position to screw over the remaining 49%, for example by selling the firm's assets to some other company owned by the PE firm, at a discount rate. This would most likely be illegal. Apart from this mechanism, the interests of the PE firm are exactly the same as the remaining shareholders: to get as much money from the firm as possible.

Now you contradict yourself. The goal is to squeeze as money as possible out of the victim. That is not the same as having that firm run well. On the contrary. The victim is squeezed dry, and the predators go on to the next victim.

Finally, if it is more profitable to sell a companies assets and fire all its workers, then this is a good thing. If you don't already believe this then I don't have space to prove it in this post, but the general idea is that labor and capital are just like any other commodity, and so a company whose share price today is less than the value of its in place assets, is like a giant inefficient machine that consumes capital and labor for what is effectively negative profit.

Capital is just a number typed in a computer if a bank is part of the robbers. Labour is a need in society. Seeing it as a commodity is downright evil. That "commodity" was the very thought that was the basis of the Enclosure.

Re:Bad price to potential debt ratio (1)

T.E.D. (34228) | about a year ago | (#43653065)

First, private equity firms do invest a lot of their own money in the firms they buy

They "invest" that money, then take every penny back from the company coffers the instant they take it over. The only way any of that initial money is at any kind of risk is if either they fail to take over the company (and their run at it didn't drive up the stock price before they bailed), or if it turns out the company can't borrow enough money to cover their nut once they take it over. Assuming they did their homework right, there is very little risk there, and it is very breif.

it is in the interests of the private equity firm that the company do well

To a certian extent this is quite true, because when the Vulture firm flies off, every penny they get for either the stock or the pieces is now profit for them. More profit is clearly better.

However, this is not the cheif way they make money on the "venture". The main goal is to get the company in question to borrow every penny they can, which the Vulture Capital Firm greedily swallows up. Once that is accomplished, they fly away.If they can sell the remnants for more than they paid, that is great. If not, that's not as good, but still not a disaster because the company itself paid for a lot of its own takeover. They only really lose money if they couldn't siphon out more cash than the delta between their entrance costs and their exit costs.

So basically, they take a company that is hurting but as has one big thing going for it (an ability to borrow money to find a way out of their current difficulties), and swoop in to take that away from them.

Finally, if it is more profitable to sell a companies assets and fire all its workers, then this is a good thing

In finance / Gordon Gekko land, this is quite true. In the real world, not so much. Actual products and actual jobs mean a great deal to socieity. I guarantee you that Apple, Microsoft, and Google all had several times in their early history where they would have been worth far more if someone had swooped in and done exactly what you suggest. Probably every company that was ever done anything worth a damn has. However, they had people in charge who belived there was something worthwhile about what that company was about and could potentially do in the future that was worth fighting for. They persevered and changed the world.

Re:Bad price to potential debt ratio (1)

alexander_686 (957440) | about a year ago | (#43646453)

This is not vulture capitalism. Vulture funds, like the birds, feed off dead corpses. I don’t think BMC is dead or dying company. I am not saying that Bain doesn’t do this stuff – but this is not the case.

As for vulture capitalism themselves – do they harm dying companies by restructuring them? Is a slow death better then chopping off the dead flesh so a smaller, healthier, company can emerge? I mean, look at what the vulture capitalist Warren Buffet did with broadcloth make Berkshire Hathaway? Is society better off when he shut down the mills?

That's not what people mean (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | about a year ago | (#43649317)

when they say 'Vulture Capitalist'. Despite the etymology when people use the phrase 'Vulture Capitalist' they mean buying a company with the specific intention of stealing everything of value in a legal manner. See numerous examples elsewhere in this thread.

Moreover, the narrative we're being sold is that you buy a company because you want it to succeed. This is why we allow "job creators" to have so much wealth. It's the justification we're given for wealth inequity that investors will risk their capital to grow a business. Terminology aside the fact is buying companies to gut them is a common business practice today. Hell, it's why you don't have pulp Sci-Fi. The books had one distributor and it got Bained.

Re:That's not what people mean (1)

alexander_686 (957440) | about a year ago | (#43649691)

That is just plain sloppy use of language – it like lumping all football players together – no matter if they are a striker or a quarterback.

In your context, covers the whole private capital / hedge fund. I would just be simpler – and more accurate - to drop the vulture and just derided capitalism.

However, in the private capital / hedge fund world, vulture capital means something else.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/vulturefund.asp [investopedia.com]

Sure, they like to go by fancy names, such as distress debt, turn around operations, Warren Buffet, etc., but we know what they are. This deal fall into the mega cap leverage buy out

Re:That's not what people mean (1)

T.E.D. (34228) | about a year ago | (#43652561)

This is like complaining that you don't like the way everyone else in the world uses the word "hacker". You may have a bit of a point, but human language is about communication, so majority really does rule. Sorry. I hate what the same process has done to the words "hacker" and "enormity", but I only get one vote.

In this case, I don't think its that bad though. Essentially, "Vulture Capital Firm" has come to mean something a bit different than "Vulture Fund". A "Vulture Capital Firm" is simply a supposed "Venture Capital Firm", that instead of looking for promising startups to fund like we normally think of such firms, looks for companies with a very low cost to potential further debt ratio, snaps them up, then loads them up with all the debt they can, while extracting all the cash they can as "fees". This easily includes every penny spent to acquire the company. Sure, they do try to keep the company afloat as best as they can until they can unload either it and its assests, just because if its still worth something then, that's even more money for them. But if that means they sell it for scrap, or the company falls apart like the Bluesmobile the instant they step out of it, they don't really care.

It is still a bit consistent, as typically it isn't perfectly healthy companies that end up in this situation. A perfectly healthy company that isn't already loaded down with debt won't have a low stock price unless investors are staying away from it for some reason. Assuming the investors are being rational, there's probably something systemically wrong with it. So in this case the "vultures" are swooping in on something that isn't dead, but is probabaly walking wounded, and finishing it off. That is in fact part of the normal behavior of the Vulture [wikipedia.org] they are being named after.

Vultures seldom attack healthy animals, but may kill the wounded or sick.

Re:That's not what people mean (1)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | about a year ago | (#43665345)

I think the term slipped in because in the choice between "Venture capitalist" and "Vulture capitalist", the latter clearly sounds more appropriate (vultures already arrive if the animal is not dead yet). "Venture capitalist" sounds as if nothing is wrong with it.

seems appropriate (2)

jd2112 (1535857) | about a year ago | (#43646235)

BMC products were the bane of my existence at a previous job. Typical "Enterprise" crap. Costs a fortune, theoretically can do almost anything you want it to if you throw enough consultants and programmers at it. Out of the box it does very little.

Re:seems appropriate (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43649683)

Here. Here.

Re:seems appropriate (1)

AbRASiON (589899) | about a year ago | (#43649745)

Bane of my existence also, utterly awful stuff.

Re:seems appropriate (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43651395)

+1. Patrol/BPPM user here.

Re:seems appropriate (1)

Digit Machine (744460) | about a year ago | (#43655427)

As I read this I'm waiting an BMC Remedy to respond so I can actually start working. I hope bain puts BMC out of business.

Re:seems appropriate (1)

Limburgher (523006) | about a year ago | (#43666967)

You said it. I can't wait to put that nightmare behind me.

Re:seems appropriate (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43684389)

BMC products were the bane of my existence at a previous job.
Typical "Enterprise" crap. Costs a fortune, theoretically can do almost anything you want it to if you throw enough consultants and programmers at it. Out of the box it does very little.

LOL. I remember the day BMC went public under Max Watson....the birds were singing...sales were strong and the product (Patrol) was growing. Then BeaCHUMP took over...and we watched quarter after quarter of over projected sales result in a steady eroding of the Stock price that was at 86/share...fall into the 20s. Bet yet he stayed. We saw business acquistions that made no sense....and yet he stayed. We saw a RIF of 33% of the company (almost all PRODUCERS) and yet he stayed. We saw the product development stagnate for this thing called BCM (Business Computing Management) and "The Cloud" (2000's version...yes...its a re-treaded term used today) and yet BeaCHUMP stayed in charge. The water crested the bow in 2005 on the BMC Titanic when they bought Remedy......it was the only thing that kept them in the black...sales had disappeared. When I walked into the Tysons Corner Office...the name on the door had been changed from BMC to Remedy Software (a BMC Company in tiny print below it) THAT is when I said my goodbyes and lowered my own lifeboat an floated away knowing that the company was doomed. Poor management, poor leadership at the CXO and a "if it didn't happen in Houston...well then it never happened attitude....has finally killed the company. It was good times in Pre-Y2K days.....and just sad Post-Y2K. The best thing they sold was the PSL Manual....you could make Patrol do almost anything with a that book....sadly....they just let it die on the vine for 10 years.

hooray! (1)

cas2000 (148703) | about a year ago | (#43649639)

three cheers for asset-stripping vulture capitalist scumbags.

they'll get richer gutting and eventually killing off BMC, but that's a small price to pay for the death of BMC Remedy.

He who controlls data controlls the future. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43651121)

Sounds like Decima to me.

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