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CD burning Will Never Be The Same

timothy posted more than 13 years ago | from the probably-not dept.

Music 352

mooneyguy writes: "Reuters is reporting that EMI has just announced a partnership with Roxio (you know, the "toast" and "Easy CD Creator" folks). They have also bought a minority stake in the company. The potential impact here is scary. Roxio's Duea is quoted: 'Our goal is to enable consumers to legally download and record music to CD in a consumer-friendly manner while fairly compensating copyright owners and creators...' What changes now are forthcoming in their software to force this "fair compensation"? And how far will those changes penetrate throughout the industry? This can't be good for the consumer. Roxio has also come forth with a press release announcing this partnership. In it they announce "EMI will work to develop ways for consumers to easily record authorized music onto recordable CDs" and, even better, 'We want to continue to work with leaders in the music industry, like EMI, to not only provide for the protection of their digital content, but also to enable record companies and artists to get paid for burning.' Yikes!" Anybody else notice how stores like Walmart and Target are pushing the Music CD-Rs more and more? Hmmmm.

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Time to use some other product. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#173740)

Roxio is far from the only available tool. Shuffle off to another brand - vote with your feet.

gnome toaster (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#173741)

of course i use gnome to toast my cd's. whats bad about this stuff? maybe more users who decide for linux because they can't do their work on windoze. btw: please don't support the current rightwing austrian governmet. haider is a fascist. http://www.stophaider.com/

Re:Retailers (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#173742)

I am...including four words in fine print at the bottom of the screen near the end:

"Stop ripping ME off"

Can you explain to me why tapes are 8 bucks and cds are AT LEAST double that for the exact same album at the same time? The record companies are the ones stealing the music, I pay for it when im buying it from the Indies. Hell, I usually chip in a few extra bucks for random encouragement so that that poor 20 year old musician can have a beer. Oh, and again, this CD was 10 bucks at a FREE live performance. Wanna explain that 18$ cd to me again? Wanna explain why they shut off my.mp3.com? (Yeah, I know the legal reasons, but I don't agree with them. my.mp3.com was a personal jukebox as far as im concerned, and they took it a way.) Wanna explain why one of my favorite bands couldnt play THEIR OWN music for a year, and had to buy it back from the company that was busy protecting the ARTISTS copyright? Wanna explain why they keep trying to kill fair use, even in front of the fucking congress?!? Wanna explain the percentages that acually get back to the creators of the music youre ripping me off for? THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS I REMEMBER EVERY TIME I DOWNLOD AN MP3 OF A SONG I DON'T ALREADY HAVE. ITS BECAUSE OF ACTIONS LIKE THESE THAT I FIND IT NECESSARY TO PROTECT MY MONEY IN DOING WHAT I CAN TO CHEAT AND DESTROY A COMPANY THAT DOSENT CLAIM TO BE LIMITING MY RIGHTS, SOMEHOW.
(sorry bout the excessive caps, as you can see, this pisses me off a bit.)

Re:Next Logical Step (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#173743)

You look forward to paying music industry tax on all CD-RW drives and blanks? I don't.

The music industry isn't owed one red cent for Fair Use of purchased CDs, no matter how much they might hate the concept of Fair Use. And I certainly hope you're not going to argue that the record companies are entitled to more money every time you need to back up your hard disk or archive digital camera pictures.

Looks to me like ... (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#173752)

This is for music burning kiosks in stores. Go in, slide your credit card through the slot, make your selections and get a custom CD all your own.

Re:Bad thing? (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#173753)

Come off your high horse. This is about putting anti-copying restrictions in place against everyone, including people who have already paid for their music and want to exercise their Fair Use rights. Backing up a CD you own or making a compilation CD from CDs you own are both examples of Fair Use that could be interfered with by this latest scheme.

Next Logical Step (5)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#173757)

This has obviously been the next logical step in the evolution of CD-R. For the longest time, people (especially here on /.) have been debating the pros and cons of taxes on the CD-R drvies, or taxes on the actual CD-R's which are meant to help compensate those musicians (read greedy RIAA). Obviously, that's a long way away (and likely to never happen), so the next logical step is software control, and here it comes via Easy CD Creator. Too bad there's a lot more better writing programs out there that are free. They do accomplish their goal here though. they are slowly making it harder for the average Joe to pirate music. Generally, I don't think that the RIAA, MPAA and whoever else really cares if the whole slashdot crowd pirates their music (we're the geeks, we'll always have the ability to pirate). But when Joe Blow sitting next to you has to so much as scratch his head to pirate music, they've won. Sorry for posting anonymous coward :)

The industry tends to prevent fair use. (5)

DunbarTheInept (764) | more than 13 years ago | (#173769)

You're giving the recording and software industry more credit than they deserve, I think. Sure, if I was certain that this would *only* affect music piracy while still leaving open fair-use copying, then I'd have no problem with it. But I think the odds of the industry coming up with a fair scheme that would do that is round about zero. Fair use should include the notion that people are not required to purchase the same music multiple times just to change its media format if they have the means to change the media format themselves. It is perfectly legal for me to make a cassette tape copy of a CD I buy (for the sake of playing in my old car stereo that has no CD player). It only becomes illegal if I give that cassette to someone else who hasn't purchased the music in some form already. I should also be allowed to burn my own CD's from music I've already purchased. I have several compilation CD's I've made for the sake of having compact "best of" collections to take with me on trips or in to work. This is perfectly legal since I already purchased those music selections in their original form, and I am merely organizing my favorites together.

I have zero confidence in the industry's ability (or more important, their willingness) to produce a solution that repsects this fair use type of copying. Those a**holes would love to make fair use a thing of the past. If they can't do it by changing the law, they'll do it by ruining all the available tools.

Normally, that wouldn't matter. I'd just say, "Screw them, I'll use my own burning software". The specs are public, there's a plethora of CD burner software. But the badly worded DMCA will make those tools become illegal because they "circumvent" a protection scheme, even if that protection scheme wasn't invented until after the fact, and even if that protection scheme is so badly implemented that ignoring it is acutally the default if your software wasn't written to notice it.

CD-Rs in DVD players (2)

Malc (1751) | more than 13 years ago | (#173772)

I have a DVD player that only has one read head. It doesn't officially support CD-Rs, although I have some green Maxell discs that I can play on it if there are no marks or scratches on the surface. CD-RWs will not work at all. Will these "music" CD-Rs be any better? I've always thought that these were just about marketing and making extra money (they seem to be 2-3x the price of an ordinary CD-R).

Keep yer old systems folks! (1)

bobalu (1921) | more than 13 years ago | (#173774)

The only response to all of the systems that will restrict your fair use (and I don't know if this scheme does) is to keep yer old stuff in working order! For once obsolescence(sp?) may be a GOOD thing, because they can't add copy-protect nonsense to the stuff you already own. For new releases you'll be stuck though, so buy everything you want now! Hmm, maybe there's a business idea in there somewhere... sit on a bunch of current non-protected media so old folk can update their collections without buying the whole thing today... sort of media escrow..

Nah, I'll just have a beer.

It won't? (1)

Moonwick (6444) | more than 13 years ago | (#173789)

two words: mkisofs and cdrecord.

There's better software now anyway.. (5)

benmhall (9092) | more than 13 years ago | (#173797)

For Windows:

Beginner: NTI's software (http://www.nticdmaker.com/index.cfm)

Advanced: Nero
http://www.ahead.de/en/index2.htm

For Linux:
Gnometoaster
(http://gnometoaster.rulez.org)

kisocd
(http://kisocd.sourceforge.net)

Or cdrecord directly for Win32, Linux, Mac, BeOS, Solaris and more.

Hey, for those of you not following, Andy (the developer for Gnometoaster) has released a 1.0Beta1 of the excellent Gnometoaster burning app.

One of the nifty new features is the ability to DnD .ogg files into the track window and have them burn out to normal CD Audio files. Is this the first burning app to offer this feature?

Ben

The Real Problems with 'compensation' etc... (1)

OnyxRaven (9906) | more than 13 years ago | (#173799)

Here's some of the Real Problems as I see them related to this partnership to create some sort of compensation system.

Problem 1: There is the possibility one music coroporation will force the other corporation out of partnership with the system through contracts or other 'legal' means. This is TERRIBLE and the first thing I thought of when I saw the EMI name. Judging from the behavior of the record industry to date, I believe this is a very real problem. Because of the way the competition works, there may never be a real standard in the way of copyright protection. If EMI signs a contract keeping RCA out of their deal - any RCA music will NOT be able to be played on that system.

Solution: An open-license system or protocol that any recording company can get for a nominal fee (if at all, a fee to cover development costs to the developing parties) that enables them to create products and or music that adheres to the license. All of the above relates to devices to play these works as well.

Problem 2: Artists not willing/wanting to join a 'major' recording company or recieve compensation will not be able to produce music compatible.

Solution: again, the open-licensed solution from above. The protocol should have some sort of price-per-use type of field, where 0 is a vaild number, and high prices simply will not be purchased.

Except for the fact that Nero could be illegal.. (4)

VValdo (10446) | more than 13 years ago | (#173801)

I mean, if a song is encoded in such a way that it has a "security bit" turned on (say, uh, bit 1 turned on means "copyrighted") and all the commercial burning software "respects" this convention, then either Nero has to refuse to burn as well or it's "circumventing a technology intended to protect copyright" and becomes illegal.

Or am I missing something?
-------------------

cdrecord rocks. (2)

mrsam (12205) | more than 13 years ago | (#173804)

This is going to affect mostly Windoze folks. I don't think there's much of anything popular out there, other than EZ CD creator, that people use for burning MP3s on Windoze. I don't really care -- cdrecord works fine for me.

There's still a small part of me that tries to remain optimistic, and believes that when Roxio begins messing around with EZ CD Creator then someone else will come out with a burner that's not crippled. I don't know -- I haven't been at Win shareware sites in years -- but there just might be some shareware burners that can also be used.

I really don't see any reason to panic. Life goes on.

---

So this is... (2)

Idaho (12907) | more than 13 years ago | (#173805)

...where cdrecord (and other free software) comes in? I mean, they can make it a little harder to the 'casual' rippers, but hey, there are more programs then just Easy CD Creator - like Nero Burning ROM [ahead.de] or CDRWin etc. So see me care...

----

Re:don't fret... (3)

warlock (14079) | more than 13 years ago | (#173809)

First of all, Nero is not a freeware program. From what I gather it is a well known and versatile Windows program for CD authoring etc.

Anyway, I didn't have to look for it, It came bundled with my YAMAHA CD-RW drive. I also got Easy CD Creator bundled with a cheap SCSI controller I bought for an old system. Considering that I don't use Windows, have no use for Windows CD authoring software and would never bother finding and downloading one, it was quite easy getting hold of it, wasn't it?

Oh well, I'll just go on using mkisofs/cdrecord.

Re:don't fret... (1)

Quikah (14419) | more than 13 years ago | (#173810)

Nero is not a freeware program.

Maybe this is good (2)

sharkey (16670) | more than 13 years ago | (#173816)

Maybe EMI will insist on Roxio patching their products to the point where they DON'T destroy Windows, regardless of the install options selected.

--

There will be great demand for older software (1)

GuNgA-DiN (17556) | more than 13 years ago | (#173818)

This, of course, is assuming that you will upgrade to the latest version of "Easy CD Creator". I'm using an older version now that works just fine. I will hang on to my CD and also my CDRW drive.

I wonder if they are going to try the same bogus scheme as the guys who were trying to created Harddrives that would prevent writing "unauthorized" files? Weren't they going to try some sort of key/encryption system? So, now when you go to rip a disk your CD drive will want to connect to the Net to validate you first???

I think not. Look at all the companies jumping ship on SMDI! Any company that relies on encryption (hardware or software) to prevent people from copying bits is in for a rude-awakening. It ain't gonna happen.

Define "authorized music" (1)

bobdehnhardt (18286) | more than 13 years ago | (#173820)

"By partnering with a market leader such as Roxio, EMI will work to develop ways for consumers to easily record authorized music onto recordable CDs," said Jay Samit, senior vice president, New Media, EMI Recorded Music.


So, what is "authorized music", and who determines what is and isn't authorized? Is burning a copy of a CD so I can listen in the car authorized? How about the MP3 file a friend made with his garage band, that isn't in their database? The CD a local choir sold as a fundraiser?

What will happen with stuff that's not on their RADAR? If they allow it unrestricted, that opens up an avenue to circumvent their "protection". If they block it, they'll cripple their software to the point of unusability.

And just how do they plan to collect these fees? Does my PC have to be online when I burn the CDs, so the software can check for authorization, and transfer fees accordingly? Do I have to enter my VISA number to burn a CD? What if I'm not online (there are still standalone PC in the world).

Just a hunch, but I think they'll find this unworkable.....

Re:Bad thing? (2)

majcher (26219) | more than 13 years ago | (#173828)

I want to be able to pay the artists money for their songs.

Yeah, sure, great. But I've already paid once. I regularly rip batches of CDs to mp3, then burn a bunch of albums back onto a CD in mp3 format. Why? So I can take one CD with me to listen to on my CD/mp3 player instead of ten. Or so that I can listen to a hundred different songs off of a hundred different CDs that I already bought and paid for. Simple. This is not theoretical - I'm actually doing this, and if I had to pay extra to space-shift music that I've already paid for once, I'd be super pissed, and more likely to pirate/steal music and not use their crappy fascist hardware.

Bottom line is, the majority people are using this technology well withing the legal limits of fair use, and shouldn't have to pay more tribute to the record labels. If you want to do something extra to support the artists, fine - but let it be voluntary, not a mandatory corporate tax.

Re:Music CD-Rs? (2)

LocalH (28506) | more than 13 years ago | (#173831)

From what I understand, the difference only (currently) comes into play when you're using a stereo component CD recorder, which looks for a bit on the Music CD-R that is not present on the Data CD-R. That way, anyone using a component CD recorder is paying part of their money to the RIAA to compensate for 'piracy'.

If I'm wrong, please correct me, but that's the way I understand it to be.
_______
Scott Jones
Newscast Director / ABC19 WKPT

That all depends (2)

overshoot (39700) | more than 13 years ago | (#173841)

The question isn't what ROXI is doing to make me pay extra for each cut on the mix CDs I'm making for a trip this weekend. The question is what is going into CD-RW drives to make me use Roxio or forget about burning anything at all.

Re:And what legitimite gripe do you have? (5)

Tofuhead (40727) | more than 13 years ago | (#173845)

Let me see here...your new cd burning software will not burn songs unless they are digitally signed. In what way is this wrong?

Let's say I want to create a mix CD from live concert MP3s. Since this is /., let's say we're talking about the Minibosses [minibosses.com] , who distribute their unsigned MP3s freely. Will I be able to do it with Roxio's awesome software, without the cracks that will inevitably be released within a week of release?

In the end, no matter how much I like to download music, I have never fooled myself into thinking I was "sharing" among friends. stealing is stealing.

Stealing is stealing, but this isn't stealing. It's copyright infringement. Theft is the act of taking something away from someone with the intent of depriving that person of possessing what you've taken. Copying zeroes and ones while leaving the original data intact is not stealing, and U.S. law (on a good day) has different laws regarding each. All those mp3 lawsuits you keep reading about are for copyright infringement, not theft.

Don't get mad if the cops try to stop you. You whine about how stealing music makes you buy more music.

No I don't. But treating gnutella like a 24-hour all-request radio station does help me make smarter purchasing decisions about my music.

Now someone wants to make it easy for you and you go "no...but, I don't want to have to prove I bought it!" Give me one good scenario on how this is a BAD thing!

How does adding a corpo-funded layer of complexity to CD burning software make it easier for me to buy more music? Sounds like all it does is make it easier for EMI and their colleagues to keep CD prices nutrageously high, just to fund more copy-protection schemes like this one.

A question: How will Roxio prevent users from decoding MP3s into WAV/AIFFs, then burning them? Will it all of a sudden become morally wrong to burn arbitrary AIFFs? Somebody better tell the budding garage bands of the world that they are not welcome to use Roxio software.

< tofuhead >
--

And this stops me how? (3)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 13 years ago | (#173857)

To Do:

Download all patches for Windows-based CD-burning software today.

Install Linux tomorrow.

Re:Out of curiosity? (1)

Bilestoad (60385) | more than 13 years ago | (#173861)

Well for a start, Nero comes from ahead.de - and since they're not in the US (.de is Deutschland) I imagine it will be somewhat difficult for US courts and the RIAA to control what they do or publish.

Re:Possible scenario and making it EASY to buy (2)

Bilestoad (60385) | more than 13 years ago | (#173862)

RIAA: Listen up. I tried to buy that CD the other day when I have 30 minutes to kill, and could not get it at K-mart.

Sorry Frank, the Taste Police got there before you. In fact, all of Las Vegas is scheduled for removal later this year.

If you must have it and you want an easy way, try amazon or cdnow.


So don't use their product... (1)

stefanlasiewski (63134) | more than 13 years ago | (#173864)

So if I have a choice between one program that lets me only burn something in a crippled fashion, and another product that allows me to burn a CD with no cripples, I'd choose the product that allows the latter.

Unless I don't have a choice for some reason...

Overkillware (3)

joq (63625) | more than 13 years ago | (#173865)


"Our goal is to enable consumers to legally download and record music to CD in a consumer-friendly manner while fairly compensating copyright owners and creators," Duea said, noting that he hopes to see deployment by year's end.

By that time, it is estimated that up to 5 billion blank CDs will have been shipped in the year in support of an estimated installed base of 100 million CD recorders in personal computers.

So in essence this company thinks that either by offering a program to burn mp3's to cd will halt what they call illegal thievery? I doubt it in fact why would someone who allegedly steals cd's go out and buy this software when they could continue with their normal bypassing ways.

Is it me or does this reak with this notion;
  • Roxio: "Let's sucker the RIAA into falling for our Overkillware program and make millions if they think people will stop what they think is illegal ripping off of artists."

By creating these so called programs I personally think they sort of force people to go out and rip more since your sort of telling someone USE THIS TO DO THIS. People should have choices, and while I do see the pro's and con's of Napster I also see somebody somewhere along the lines of Roxio, the Artists complaining, RIAA, $INSERT_TARGET_HERE don't have a really good clue yet.

Maybe these people should go and read Bruce Schneier's "The Futility of Digital Copy Prevention [cryptome.org] " article word for word, and come to a better conclusion instead of thinking some lawsuit, or some program is going to be the answer to people ripping mp3's and doing whatever the heck they want with them.

We Need Alternatives (1)

Louis Savain (65843) | more than 13 years ago | (#173866)

Since it appears that the content industry (e.g., music and movie) is dead set on destroying our freedoms to safeguard their artificially propped, intellectual "properties", what is needed are alternative technologies. Maybe someone can come up with a do-it-yourself kit that almost anybody can use to build a FREE burner. We must counteract whatever scheme they come up with. We must not let them take away our liberties one by one, a little bit at a time, until there is none left. We must not let the powers that be turn us into drones.

Demand liberty!

Re:Bad thing? (2)

technos (73414) | more than 13 years ago | (#173871)

There are no artists, only the recording industry. Or haven't you been listening to Courtney Love?

This cannot be a good thing (1)

grimmy (75458) | more than 13 years ago | (#173872)

Consider the fact that Easy CD comes with a VERY large portion of burners, and just as large an amount of PC's. This would make it quite easy for them to get the "compliant" software on to quite a few machines. As long as they don't team up with CD manufactures to create a complient disc of some sort.

Re:The market (1)

netsrek (76063) | more than 13 years ago | (#173873)

No, BETA lost out because of the booming porn industry.

Sony apparently refused to let pornos be released on BETA, so VHS took over.

Re:Bad thing? (1)

innit (79854) | more than 13 years ago | (#173875)

What you say is absolutely correct of course. At least it would be if the music companies were actually as concerned for the artists as they make out and have you believe.

I think peoples' knee-jerk reactions against paying for music is not to do with the artists, because most sane people realise that artists should be compensated for what they do, but because people aren't stupid and they know that the music companies/RIAA whatever are suggesting these schemes mainly to benefit themselves and their greedy profit margins.

People have no qualms about giving money to artists, it's giving money to asshole record companies who really don't deserve it, that's the knee-jerker.

xx Stuii!

Yeah, and...? (2)

Moonshadow (84117) | more than 13 years ago | (#173879)

Actually, I expect this will probably cause a drop in casual burning (Geez, I make it sound like drug use). Joe Schmoe suddenly discovers he has to pay to burn a CD, so what's he do? 1) Give up, or 2) Talk to a geek and find out how to get around it. Either way, it's a minor stumbling block to the average user. I don't expect it will be too effective, though. I imagine that those who know how to cirvumvent this account for a large majority of the cd-burning population, so all you do is fend off the dumb users.

My only complaint is that all my non-techie friends are suddenly going to be asking me to burn CDs for them, seeing as they can't anymore without a credit card number. As if I needed more to do.

Paranoia (1)

Ruds (86067) | more than 13 years ago | (#173885)

I think people are getting a little paranoid. All it looks like to me is that they're going to give the software a pay-for-download-and-burn feature. They don't say anything about blocking music, and it seems to me that if they were going to block burning "unauthorized" music, they would put that in the lead of the press release. They would be proud of coming up with a technology that "stops the pirates" from stealing their music.

Matt

What's the difference...? (1)

Greylark (87626) | more than 13 years ago | (#173887)

What's the difference between a Music CDR, and a Data CDR?

I got your legitimate situation right here! (3)

sg3000 (87992) | more than 13 years ago | (#173888)

Let's say I own quite a few CDs that are no longer readable. This is happening quite often for some of the older CDs that I own -- KMFDM's "Naive", The Cult's "Electric", Meat Beat Manifesto's "Armed Audio Warfare", etc. Some songs won't play in a regular CD player and none will rip into MP3s.

There's no way I'm going to buy these CDs again (even if they are still in print) because I already own them. Therefore, I downloaded MP3s of the songs off LimeWire and add them to my iTunes music library. As far as I'm concerned, downloading MP3s of songs I own is the same as inserting the disc and ripping them myself. In fact, converting your CDs into MP3s has a hundred advantages over discs, including being generally immune to the paint-leaking-though-the-plastic syndrome that seems to affect lesser discs.

Now, I'm not going to explain to Roxio the above situation, and I don't want to have the hassle of dealing with some goofy digital signature "feature". I like to listen to music, not fsck around with digital signatures or whatever so that "the artist can be compensated" -- we all know that Roxio means it's the RIAA and the music labels that will be compensated.

I expect that Roxio will add some annoying feature because that's the way they run their business. I've had to buy three copies of Toast ($99 ea): once for Mac OS 8 capability, once for Mac OS 8.5 capability, once for Mac OS 9 capability. Toast had no new features I wanted, but I had to buy to use the software with the new OS. This is crazy because Adaptec (now Roxio) never offer an upgrade price. "Oh, you upgraded your OS? Where's our $100?"

I am now more than happy to use the free Disc Burner software that Apple provides. iTunes is better than the SoundJam/Toast hack, and it's much easier to burn indexed CDs with Disc Burner than Toast anyway.

If nothing else, Apple's free disc burning software will make Roxio think twice about charging for a simple compatibility upgrade. It doesn't matter anyway; they lost me as a customer a long time ago.

Fair Use (1)

BoyPlankton (93817) | more than 13 years ago | (#173893)

I miss fair use ...

Re:Easy! (2)

hawkbug (94280) | more than 13 years ago | (#173894)

I agree 100%. Anybody ever burn cds with linux? Yeah, that's right... there ARE other cd recording programs out there. So, don't worry about it. Roxio isn't the only ball game in town, and even if they were, somebody will write a "non-compliant" burning program that isn't buddy-buddy with EMI. So, no big deal here.

Music CD-Rs? (2)

molo (94384) | more than 13 years ago | (#173895)

Can someone explain to me what the difference between these "Music" CD-Rs and normal CD-Rs are? I always thought they used a different dye type to get the discs to play in older CD players. This suggests otherwise. Can anyone elaborate?

Just use older versions (2)

browser_war_pow (100778) | more than 13 years ago | (#173903)

My copy of Easy Cd Creator 4.0 Deluxe works just fine and I have no intentions of upgrading. Unless there is something truly compelling like DVD-R support in the next version where this feature is going to be introduced, I won't upgrade. Why? My software works just fine. The problem with humans is that we are never happy with what works. We tinker, but 90% of the time go about it the wrong way. If your software works as-is, then don't change unless you will get something that will make your life better without much hassle. If ain't broke, don't fix it. That is why our government is in such shambles, we tinker with it and never go back to proven methods and configurations when the hacks don't work.

I do wonder how effective this will be though. How do they plan to stop bootlegs from being made? Take out mp3 support? Make it so you have to pay royalties whenever you burn your own compilations for personal use? This to me sounds like corporate suicide, as much so as the new XP copy restraint system. People don't like being nickled and dimed to death, and making people pay a lot of money for the "right" (notice how any "right" these days can be taken away as easily as a privelege?) to make compilations from the cds they legally buy sure as hell is a doomed idea. Part of me is wondering if Roxio isn't trying to give out good PR to keep the DMCA from being expanded to provide massive oversight and regulation of the burning industry. Just a thought.

Re:Me too (1)

nido (102070) | more than 13 years ago | (#173908)

projects like fairtunes [fairtunes.com] could use your support.. They don't disturbute a lot of money, but it's exactly what you're looking for.

---

Roxio's problem (3)

Coward Anonymous (110649) | more than 13 years ago | (#173910)

Roxio can do whatever they want. They are not obligated to anyone for anything and that includes CD writing software. Why do you think they owe you their software?

Anyway, there will always be a need for data CDs and there is no way to diffrentiate between kinds of data. As longs as those mp3 CD players keep coming out, this partnership is meaningless.

Re:Roxio's problem (1)

Catbeller (118204) | more than 13 years ago | (#173913)

"Roxio can do whatever they want. They are not obligated to anyone for anything and that includes CD writing software. Why do you think they owe you their software? "

I just yesterday responded to someone's post about the "fact" that the free market is in business to serve its customers. The market wants the ability to burn a CD. The suppliers have decided to remove that ability. Where is the market force?

The corporations are the customers, not us. We are just expenses and factors, like factory and plant.

Easy CD Creator is irrelavant to the Windows user (2)

spullara (119312) | more than 13 years ago | (#173917)

As of Windows XP, CD burning is built into the operating system, thus rendering this entire thread mute since Easy CD Creator will likely never be bought by a customer again anyway.

Yet another reason to use OSS (1)

MrResistor (120588) | more than 13 years ago | (#173918)

Not really sure what else to say, except I hope Roxio goes down the tubes for this. EMI too, but that's far less likely...

Why upgrade? (1)

ahknight (128958) | more than 13 years ago | (#173921)

Toast works with my CD burner now and does what I want. When Roxio recovers from this apparent lack of oxygen to the corporate head, I'll upgrade. Ta da. Not a big deal.

Re:Retailers (1)

ahknight (128958) | more than 13 years ago | (#173922)

Which brings up a good point: for Mac folks there's still Apple's software that allows you to burn MP3s just fine, as well as data (provided that you're supported and have kissed Apple's ass and are using their burner, yadda, yadda), so this really won't kill that market.

It's just the Windows users that have to worry, at least until another program is sufficiently populous that the proliferation of Roxio's stuff is irrelevent.

Out of curiosity? (1)

Lord_Pall (136066) | more than 13 years ago | (#173924)

Does anyone know if there's any way that the DMCA can be used against products such as NERO?

That's the direction i could see this sort of alliance going towards..

Sure we'll still be able to get ahold of "black market" burning software..

But if they have Non-standard burning software declared a "Circumvention device" ala decss or whatnot

Well then.. Things will get Ugly

In fact.. With the new Types of copy protection on music cd's (I think the major one is some bastardization of the orange book format)
Would ownership of an mp3 of a song that only showed up on the copy protected cd be considered a violation of the DMCA?

Re:Easy CD Creator is irrelavant to the Windows us (1)

cqnn (137172) | more than 13 years ago | (#173925)

And what company do you think was providing MS
with CD Burning software to bundle in Windows XP?

Yes but... (1)

Electric Angst (138229) | more than 13 years ago | (#173927)

Yes, this is bad, but frankly, who the hell didn't see it coming?

I mean, shit, you buy a drive for a few hundred bucks, but for some reason, that doesn't entitle you to the goddamn write drivers for the thing! Imagine if they sold zips like this, or even floppies. It's absurd that you have to have some special program just to write to media.

Sorry guys, but we're a few years late on this one...


--

Keep driving people towards Linux.. Thanks guys! (1)

-tji (139690) | more than 13 years ago | (#173928)

Keep treating consumers like criminals.. The more you spit on them, the more they will want your product!

Almost every CD I own (300+) is in a cardboard box at the bottom of a stack in my closet. It is perfectly legal for me to listen to those songs I have converted into MP3 format. I, for one, will not be paying a cent more to move them to another media to be played in my car.

So, I guess I'll stick to my Linux CD Burner application.

Re:And what legitimite gripe do you have? (2)

Frank T. Lofaro Jr. (142215) | more than 13 years ago | (#173931)

Let's say I record a song that I wrote and I hold all the copyrights to it and I can't record it without paying the RIAA $50,000 for a digital signature and have to sign a contract turning over all rights to my music to them and never being allowed to release MY OWN work on Napster.

Good (bad) enough scenario for you?

Possible scenario and making it EASY to buy (2)

Frank T. Lofaro Jr. (142215) | more than 13 years ago | (#173932)

CD players refuse to play audio off a "non-music" (really non-audio) CD-R. You can still copy files off a CD-ROM drive, but the play function on it or on a stereo only would work with an audio CD-R. The tax on music distribution is divied up based on download of freely available music, markets, etc. People can still do audio, but each blank audio playable CD-R blank costs 40 cents more. Data CD-Rs can't be played, but don't cost extra.

I.e. the same tax structure, maybe different rates, divying up could be made more fair, and only audio CDs "play". (I'm not saying this is what is proposed)

Bad, good, or indifferent?

P.S. I am extremely strongly in favor of fair use, but I do want the artists to get payed. That's why I am going to BUY a Gladys Knight CD instead of downloading the songs. I want to support her, she is extremely good and is a Las Vegas resident as am I :).

RIAA: Listen up. I tried to buy that CD the other day when I have 30 minutes to kill, and could not get it at K-mart.

Make it EASIER TO BUY CDs and more people will buy - not just the true fans and those who can't use Napster. How about enter a CD and/or song title on RIAA.com, enter your zip code, and it tell you where to buy it. Or just buy it over the Net, and get the CD 48 hours later.

MAKE IT EASY folks.

Unaware of choices = no choice for you (2)

Frank T. Lofaro Jr. (142215) | more than 13 years ago | (#173933)

Or if you are unaware you have a choice. Look at people who use IE because it is the DEFAULT, even though they can download Netscape FOR FREE.

Re:What's the difference...? (2)

Frank T. Lofaro Jr. (142215) | more than 13 years ago | (#173934)

A tax/royalty and (I think) a bit set somewhere it the prewritten header or CD identification area. Would be easy to have CD players (stereos and CD-ROMS in play-audio mode) only play if the bit is set for an Audio ("music") CD. WOuld actually seem like a semi-reasonable compromise.

Re:rip, mix, burn! (2)

Frank T. Lofaro Jr. (142215) | more than 13 years ago | (#173935)

And hey, reason enough for me to support Apple? They voted AGAINST all CPRM proposals.

Of course. Their lawyers are too busy filing look and feel and trademark lawsuits to have any time left to file DMCA lawsuits.

There are only 168 hours in a week you know...

Plus Steve Jobs would NEVER accept any fascist system other than his own - he HATES competition.

Have they EVER succeeded? (2)

e_lehman (143896) | more than 13 years ago | (#173936)

The Powers That Be have managed to destroy some mechanisms for music trading (Napster, MP3.com), but have not succeeded with even a single positive step toward controlling music trading (such as SDMI, CPRM, CD burning control, etc.) This heartens me. Am I overlooking something?

So use something else... (1)

walt-sjc (145127) | more than 13 years ago | (#173937)

So instead of using the expensive locked down burning software, use open source software instead. cdrecord for unix works with just about every drive made, and even has DVD-RAM/RW support. With the plethora of GUI interfaces to cdrecord (and companion utilities such as rippers, MP3 encoders), why use that commercial crap?

- "Use the Source, Luke!"

Re:Bad thing? (2)

blirp (147278) | more than 13 years ago | (#173939)

If there is no money in music, then a lot of the best musicians will simply cease to exist. Yes, we will always have amateur musicians, but a lot of the best musicians will never happen unless they are able to practice all day, every day, and you can't do that unless you do it professionally. There is a reason why professional athletes, for example, will kick almost any amateur's ass.

And why all commercial software kicks all free software. NOT!

:*)

This is good for consumers AND musicians (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 13 years ago | (#173941)

Imagine if you could micropay for 12 songs, and burn your own Metallica CD, like the guy at PayLars.com was trying to do? Even great band put out CDs with some crap songs, why not prune out the bad ones?
I spoke with a musician who said that the musician is lucky to make .75 USD on a CD, regardless of sale price. Imagine if a musician could record .WAV files of his songs (no quality loss like MP3) and sell them for .75 USD apiece. You win, since a 12-song CD becomes 8 USD, and the musician wins, because he gets it all, a 12x increase in his profit by not using a record company distribution channel.

Big Deal? (1)

Judas96' (151194) | more than 13 years ago | (#173946)

I don't think this is much of a problem. It isn't like Roxio is the ONLY company to make cd writing software, and even it it was do you seriously think people wouldn't find a way to get around any protection put in place?
And why is it so scary? Not to troll, but it just means that you would now be paying for songs that you most likely should have been paying for in the first place...
If people don't like whatever scheme for payment Roxio/EMI end up putting in place, they will find a way to get around it by cracking the program or moving on to a new one.
-- Judas96
"...don't take a nerf bat to a knife fight." - Joe Rogan, said on News Radio

Sell, sell, sell! (5)

revbob (155074) | more than 13 years ago | (#173948)

Roxio's strategic alliance with EMI follows their strategic alliance with Microsoft in Windows Media Player 7.

When you get into bed with a giant, you gotta expect he'll roll over during the night. Roxio's management seems to be so ignorant of a fact that's left a string of empty buildings from Fisherman's Wharf to Los Gatos that they've gotten into bed with two giants.

This is called the Dance of the Doomed.

The only sensible advice to shareholders of ROXI is contained in the subject line.

If you don't own any shares in Roxio -- and why you'd have held any after their announcement of the alliance with MSFT escapes me -- and if you don't use their Easy CD Creator/Direct CD -- another "in God's name, why?" kind of practice --this is a NOP. Roxio won't be here to worry about this time next year.

And if there's anybody on /. who didn't already know that Windows and Office XP were going to be very nasty propositions -- helLOOOOOOO!

This is scary... (1)

MsGeek (162936) | more than 13 years ago | (#173957)

It's going to be Very Bad (tm) for Fair Use if the other four of the Five Families of the International Music Industry sign on. It's also going to be Very Bad (tm) for Ahead Software GMBH, Veritas Software and hundreds of little shareware companies too. I smell a cartel forming. It doesn't smell too good.
----
http://www.msgeek.org/html/

Re:Music CD-Rs (1)

andyh1978 (173377) | more than 13 years ago | (#173966)

See this entry [cdrfaq.org] in the CDR FAQ.

Music CD-Rs (4)

andyh1978 (173377) | more than 13 years ago | (#173967)

This won't make a heck of a lot of difference. All it'll be is integration with whatever subscription Napster-esque service that they may or may not offer in the future, and possibly some blocks on burning audio files from Easy CD Creator.

Easy way around that; use another CD writing program.

With the problems that Easy CD has been having [theregister.co.uk] , that's probably a good idea anyway.

The reference to the 'Music CD-Rs' is another of the music industry's daft ideas. From the CD-R FAQ: http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq07.html#S7-17 [cdrfaq.org]

Subject: [7-17] What's the difference between "data" and "music" blanks? (2001/03/12)


"Consumer" stand-alone audio CD recorders require special blanks. See section (5-12) for details. There is no difference in quality or composition between "data" blanks and "music" blanks, except for a flag that indicates which one it is. It's likely that "music" blanks are optimized for recording at 1x, since anything you record "live" is by definition recorded at 1x. You don't have to use "music" blanks to record music on a computer or "professional" stand-alone audio CD recorder, but nothing will prevent you from doing so.

The "music" blanks are more expensive than the "data" blanks because a portion of the price goes to the music industry. The specifics vary from country to country.

Some manufacturers have on occasion marked low-quality data discs as being "for music", on the assumption that small errors will go unnoticed. Make sure that, if you need the special blanks, you're getting the right thing.

So potentially expect to see Easy CD whinge if you try and burn audio onto an ordinary data CD. I doubt they'd be silly enough to block it, but pop up a warning and your average user gets worried enough to think maybe they ought to buy those 'Music CD-Rs' after all.

Windows XP - integrated CD-writing (1)

VividU (175339) | more than 13 years ago | (#173968)

Windows XP will include built-in, in-line, Explorer-based cd burning. In other words, it will be no different then writing to a floppy. As it should be.

Re:Retailers (1)

kz45 (175825) | more than 13 years ago | (#173970)

here are some problems with your reasoning:

1) you are not forced to BUY CDS/music. This is kind of like saying: mcdonalds is charging too much for their food, let's start robbing and looting their stores. Yeah...that kind of reasoning is going to work REAL well. (why not have some balls for once and start boycotting). This kind of reasoning is kinda like the riots of Los Angelos or Detroit. The blacks get pissed because they feel someone is being overly mistreated, so in response they rob and steal from stores that are owned by chinese,koreans,americans, and GASP blacks. (this isn't supposed to be against any race or religion, im just using the riots as an example)

2) artists are not FORCED to go with a company that rapes them. They choose to do so on their own. If they wanted their music to be "freely" givin to the hands of their beloved fans, they would start up an Internet site, or give it away on a napster like service. If you haven't already figured it out, recording artists do serve a purpose: promotion and advertising. They allow a band to get their music into the hands of the fans.

the real reason we should be against the RIAA is because of their control and monopoly over things like VCD,DVD,etc.,etc. and now burning CD's.

Me too (2)

IamLarryboy (176442) | more than 13 years ago | (#173972)

I also would like to give money to artists when I enjoy their songs. However I want to give monney to the artist and NOT EMI or any other big label. ESPECIALY when those companies go arround restricting my freedoms.

just my 2bits

X CD Roast (1)

gnugnugnu (178215) | more than 13 years ago | (#173977)

if only X CD Roast was cross platform
XP CD Roast

(XP, forever tarnished by the stupidity of Microsoft, it stands for Cross Platform dammit!)

and CD paranoia mmmm.

Bad thing? (3)

Reality Master 101 (179095) | more than 13 years ago | (#173980)

This is the right principle, the only question is the execution. If you think this is bad, then you are part of the problem, not the solution.

I want to be able to pay the artists money for their songs. Up until now, there simply is no way to give money if you want to download an electronic version. If they allow me to pay a reasonable price to download a song, then I will gladly pay it.

The only question is whether they are going to put restrictions on what I can do with my purchased song for my personal use. If there is any copy restriction, then that obviously is not acceptable.

But this knee-jerk reaction to any kind of paying for music is just stupid. If there is no money in music, then a lot of the best musicians will simply cease to exist. Yes, we will always have amateur musicians, but a lot of the best musicians will never happen unless they are able to practice all day, every day, and you can't do that unless you do it professionally. There is a reason why professional athletes, for example, will kick almost any amateur's ass.

And no, 200 years ago Mozart or whoever DID NOT do it on an amateur basis. They were paid by either royalty, upper class citizens or the church. In fact, most artists were compensated in that way. Art and money have always gone hand in hand. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive (and impractical).


--

rip, mix, burn! (2)

firewort (180062) | more than 13 years ago | (#173984)

Well, let's see.

Functionally, this doesn't have *THAT* great an impact. Data cds are still kosher, but music cds will be affected.

Great, I'll make my x86 music discs with cdrecord (thanks, Jorg!) and my PPC music discs with iTunes and the MacOS cdburner. (thanks Jobs!)

We know that Jobs isn't interested in this kind of strong-arming to get consumers to get in step- they advertised it with the Rip.Mix.Burn. campaign, and that combined with iTunes and the new iBook, the user is meant to insert a cd, have iTunes rip it to mp3, and burn to cd-r/rw.

So I can still do the things I need to do in iTunes and cdrecord. I can use roxio for data cds if I must.

At least Apple is still catering to some of the customers' concerns.

And hey, reason enough for me to support Apple? They voted AGAINST all CPRM proposals.

A host is a host from coast to coast, but no one uses a host that's close

Reminds me of .... (1)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 13 years ago | (#173985)

DivX (the DVD product)This is nothing more than an industry attempt at cornering freedom. It will fail in the free market. The only thing that scares me about such setup is if they pass a law forcing it upon every Burner/Media combination. When they outlaw CDBurners, only outlaws will burn CDs. Now if the everyone got together and boycotted the Music Industry ...... Oh wait, now I sound like a liberal.

So how does this affect me? (1)

Kazymyr (190114) | more than 13 years ago | (#173989)

I use cdrecord-1.9 on Linux. BTW, a port of cdrecord is available for Windows, and it's GPLed. You don't have to pay a dime to use it.

Re:Paranoia (1)

ichimunki (194887) | more than 13 years ago | (#173992)

No kidding. Besides, even if this new method only allows you to burn downloaded songs once (successfully) to audio CD, you can always rip a wav or mp3 from that. :)

Re:Bad thing? (2)

sulli (195030) | more than 13 years ago | (#173993)

I want to be able to pay the artists money for their songs. Up until now, there simply is no way to give money if you want to download an electronic version. If they allow me to pay a reasonable price to download a song, then I will gladly pay it.

Buy "Music CD-Rs" - they include a RIAA tax.

Easy! (4)

sulli (195030) | more than 13 years ago | (#173995)

use another CD burner, or don't upgrade Toast. Roxio loses money. Fuck 'em.

Retailers (4)

sulli (195030) | more than 13 years ago | (#173996)

Anybody else notice how stores like Walmart and Target are pushing the Music CD-Rs more and more? Hmmmm.

This really is the new killer app. Think of Apple's "Rip, Mix, Burn" ads. Of course the industry is running scared ... serves 'em right.

I don't steal music, but I do download it. (3)

aussersterne (212916) | more than 13 years ago | (#174012)

All you know-it-all, pole-in-ass types are so sure that you're morally superior, that every Napster or Gnutella user is out there stealing music. Well, there are LEGAL uses for Napster that DO involve downloading lots of music.

FOR EXAMPLE:

I own about 1,000 CDs. I own a tablet PC which I carry around with me nearly everywhere I go and which doubles as my memopad-sized MP3 walkman. Now I could spend hours encoding songs from CD to MP3 each morning so that I can carry around the music that I want, but that's not really time-effective. What do I do? I download the songs that someone else has already encoded. And what's more, sometimes in the middle of the day I find myself wanting that one particular song that I don't have loaded into the PC at the moment. What do I do? Pop on to one of the OpenNap servers and grab the song. If some of you had your way, I'd have to run home, find the CD, encode the track on my desktop PC, IR it to my tablet and run back to work -- or forego listening to it. Buy why should I have to forego listening to it if I've already BOUGHT the damn thing?

I've bought every CD that ever contained a song I liked. I can show you the matching CD from every song I've ever downloaded. I'm not stealing, and I resent the implication that just because I use the MP3 format or visit Napster/OpenNap sites I'm some sort of criminal.

And just to prove that I'm ON TOPIC, I've even burned a few MP3 CDs that I downloaded. How is this legal? Well, I've been through some albums (Black Crowes SHMC, Fiona Apple Tidal, etc.) 4+ times, buying the damn CD each time, because they've been scratched so much they start to skip. Now for the ones I really like, where quality is really important, I will always buy the CD again (paying royalties EACH time, even though I'm only one listener), but for some of them which aren't worth THAT much to me, I'll just grab the non-working tracks off the net and re-burn the entire CD with the skipping tracks replaced. Voila. FIXED CD. That I already paid for.

And aside from these black-and-white issues, I don't see ANY problem with grabbing an MP3 from a CD I own and sending it to a friend in e-mail with "Hey man, check this track out!" in the message body. I lend my CDs out. Sometimes friends copy them to tape, I'm sure. That doesn't give me any guilt pangs and neither do MP3s.

What About Those Who... (2)

NeuroManson (214835) | more than 13 years ago | (#174015)

Use CD-R/W for what these folks would consider as "legitimate" purposes, such as backups? I, as an artist, often build up large numbers of high resolution pictures on my HD that I would like to make backups of from time to time, and being the copyright holder, see no reason why I should pay EMI/Roxio for the right to do so...

In addition, what of those who want to back up their HD's who happen to also have mp3's? Does this mean that they will be unable to, until every unsigned audio file (including, ironically, those that install automatically with some games, operating systems, and professional audio applications)is hunted down and eradicated?

This could be REALLY good or REALLY bad (3)

DreamingReal (216288) | more than 13 years ago | (#174018)

REALLY good:
I can stream .wav files right from a site over my broadband connection through my Easy CD Creator software and onto a blank disc with one click. I'm billed a reasonable amount of money, say $7 - $10 (after all, I'm paying for the transportation and fabrication).

Artist, studio get paid. Roxio keeps selling software subscriptions. Consumer gets a cheap, easy alternative to buying at the store. Everyone wins.

REALLY bad
I have to pay the studio *anytime* I burn a .wav file to a CD, even the ones I already own. Now, I pay for the "privilege" of making my own Best of Iron Maiden, Vol. 1 - 4 because I don't feel like lugging 20 discs around in my car all the time. I pay for the "privilege" of having a burned copy of Seventh Son of a Seventh Son at work, so I can keep the original at home.

Consumer pay more money to legally use media she has already purchased. She seeks out less restrictive alternatives. Roxio loses money she may have spent on software. Artist, studio loses money she might have spent for an album that is worth $8 to her but certainly not $16. She considers boycotting studio and Roxio who tried to fuck her through ill-conceived business plan to bleed legitimate consumers of more money. Everybody loses.


-------

CD burning Will Never Be The Same (1)

rrdejay (226914) | more than 13 years ago | (#174021)

I already burned all of my cd's, nice bonfire. Now if they had a problem with burning my mp3's and software then I would have a problem...
rrdejay

er... (2)

wrinkledshirt (228541) | more than 13 years ago | (#174023)

"The potential impact here is scary. ... And how far will those changes penetrate throughout the industry? This can't be good for the consumer."

That's probably besides the point. One of the big criticisms that everyone has about the music industry is that they're always behind the times on catching up to new technology. Seems to me to be a fairly good approach on their part, if you ask me. They can cut manufacturing costs like nuts and put out a low-cost alternative to buying CDs and a higher-quality (and not to mention legal) alternative to downloading amateur rips.

Plus, it opens up the door for providing an even better service than what Napster has. They can set up a fast, dedicated network to serve the files instead of having to rely on shaky internet downloads, they can make the process of finding a song quicker by providing their own directories, they can even order CDs en masse (like, tens of thousands at a time) and reduce the per-unit expense for themselves and (potentially) the consumer... It seems like a smart all around play, if you ask me.

The only real question will be if they (a) can implement it properly, and (b) can resist the temptation to once again become the megalithic expensive dinosaur that charged too much and encouraged the average music-lover to piracy in the first place.

The market (1)

clinko (232501) | more than 13 years ago | (#174024)

The only way a media company can win is if their product is cheaper. Remember Beta? It costed more. VHS = crappier, but CHEAP. So it sold. This is same with this example.

But... I could be wrong.

The key to it all (1)

thelexx (237096) | more than 13 years ago | (#174028)

You mentioned what I feel is the built-in safety valve for consumers should the music or movie industries make a successful short term push for all devices/programs to operate under their regs. Namely that it WILL ultimately fail in the face of consumer demand for non-crippled/right infringing products. And it only takes ONE company to do it once the magical state of unity sought by the RIAA/MPAA is reached. Here's hoping we don't come to the point of needing this to happen though!

LEXX

Music CD-Rs (2)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 13 years ago | (#174034)

Anybody else notice how stores like Walmart and Target are pushing the Music CD-Rs more and more? Hmmmm.
Ok, I've always assumed that "Music CD-Rs" were just a marketing ploy, like those cassettes you could get during the 80's for "data" for home computers that still used cassettes for storage.

What is the difference between a Music CD-R and a conventional CD-R? Is there a real difference, or is it just a marketing gimmick, and if the latter, how does *Mart marketing the stuff make a difference in this case?
--

This is GREAT news! (2)

Frobozz0 (247160) | more than 13 years ago | (#174035)

Despite the reporter's negative view about secure digital music transaction, I think the consumer can only benefit from this. How do we lose if we pay a low, reasonable price for downloadable music? Do you honestly feel good about yourself when you steal music from artists you like? If you do, move to a third world country where that's legal.

I have never had a problem with paying for music, but I love the convienience and satisfaction of being able to download music whenever I want. Having an integrated solution is the next logical step. Kudos!

it's a conspiracy! (1)

IanA (260196) | more than 13 years ago | (#174044)

Anybody else notice how stores like Walmart and Target are pushing the Music CD-Rs more and more? Hmmmm.

Oh, I don't know, maybe CD-Rs are pushed heavily because there is a higher demand then ever before? WTF does this have to do with that?
Gotta love paranoid geeks..

This is good, unless you're into stealing... (2)

jordandeamattson (261036) | more than 13 years ago | (#174048)

Ok, the big argumnet to date for support Napster and its kin has been that I want my music in an online format and the record companies and artists don't make it easy for me pay for it in that format.

So, now we have a way to pay them. A way that likely would - if worked right - allow us to reduce the overhead in moving money to the artists. But how do people react they start bitching that they want be able to take stuff without paying the folks that created it. Please, grow up!

If you truly believe in freedom, then the people that create stuff have the freedom to decide how and under what terms their creations are distributed. You on the other hand have the freedom to choose if you will accpet distribution on their terms. If you don't like those terms, then don't use it. Find someone else that will give you what you want on acceptable terms. If you don't like the terms, you don't have a right to take it without their permission ! This is called stealing and it is a direct attack on their freedom to choose how they want to and under what terms they choose to disribute their creations. Attacking someone's freedom is called oppression and that is a bad thing!

Properly executed, a Roxio based distribution technology has the promise of allowing smaller labels to have a reach equal to the big guys. This is a good thing. It means that they can be economically viable.

In case people haven't been paying attention, the world of everything costing nothing on the Internet is quickly disappearing. If people are going to create, they have to figure out how to eat. Some do this by working at a "job" so that they can pursue their "vocation". That is fine, it is their choice. Others want to engage in their vocation full-time. But to do so, they need a way to sell the fruit of their labor. If you like the taste of that fruit and the terms under which they want to provide it to you, then you pay them for it. But you don't take it without their consent.

I don't want to be forced to pay for creations I don't want or under terms I find unacceptable - this is my criticism of RMS and the Free Software Model, I don't want to pay a "software tax" for software I may or may not want - but I also can't take something that another has created without their consent.

Like anything else... (5)

Gruneun (261463) | more than 13 years ago | (#174049)

This will stop only the people who are ignorant to their options or too lazy to find a different route.

If an mp3 search engine gets axed (or a file-trading service has its hands tied) it doesn't slow the people who use IRC or FTP. Sure it's less convenient for most, but it doesn't stop the practice.

If Adaptec handicaps their product, it will only make other burning software more appealing. If you're reading slashdot, you're probably capable of finding an alternative.

Re:Easy! (1)

ZaneMcAuley (266747) | more than 13 years ago | (#174050)

HERE
HERE
Im tired of being a consumer who is at the butt of .COMS.

Fuck them all

But yer average Joe blow just is uneducated and doesnt know any better. Remember that Roxio is supplying its sw with some burners (SAMSUNG for example) so just boycot those HW manufacturers.

Wait till XP and BlackComb (Windows .NET v1) kiss goodbye to yer rights with Software as a Service. Boycott Software as a service. unless u like paying monthy rent on yer software

2001/2 THE TIME PEOPLE TAKE CONTROL

power to the people
Remember to vote. (money counts)

Re:Just use older versions (2)

aredubya74 (266988) | more than 13 years ago | (#174051)

My copy of Easy Cd Creator 4.0 Deluxe works just fine and I have no intentions of upgrading

And Roxio's made not wanting to upgrade a bit easier. Easy CD Creator 5.0 (their first release since taking over from Adaptec) is easily the worst piece of Win32 software I've installed in months, if not years. It simply fails to do its job (recording data on to a CD-R/CD-RW) with astonishing regularity.

Add-Remove, Reinstall 4.0...ah, that's better

Regression testing, my ass!

This Could be a Pilot Project (1)

robbyjo (315601) | more than 13 years ago | (#174061)

You may think Roxio is taking the wrong path. But, hey, if they succeeded to bring forth an evidence of sales record being up, then the lawmakers will force that into a bill! What a nightmare!

Re:Bad thing? (3)

terrymr (316118) | more than 13 years ago | (#174062)

I can see the day coming when we have to pay several times for the same file.

One when you download it, once to write it to cd, again to put it on your personal mp3 player.

I have a question though :

right now napster is viewed as committing contributary copyright infringement by assisting others to copy without paying.

If we're paying to write the song to cd then I'm not infringing by definition so does the napster issue go away ?

Re:Bad thing? (1)

petong (320755) | more than 13 years ago | (#174068)

I would love to give my money to the artists. I am just sick of the record companies keeping most of it! They are a bunch of crooks!

don't fret... (5)

PorcelainLabrador (321065) | more than 13 years ago | (#174069)

that's why we have other programs like Nero out there. So what if Joe-Schmoe uses Easy CD Creator and has to pay a small fee. Your average computer geeks will still be using Nero or some 'other' program out there.

Really, when you get down to it, this could be a big mistake. Nothing could drive more people to a different product than creating some sort of burn-payment scheme. Nero and others like it should be happy.

Another (1)

Reckless Visionary (323969) | more than 13 years ago | (#174073)

Another

The potential impact here is scary

article. Surprise, surprise.

Quality? (1)

Cul8rZ (324110) | more than 13 years ago | (#174074)

Being a audio purist myself. I'm sure not going to pay full price for an MP3 album. As they just do not sound as good. So I hope they discount a bit for quality too... Or do they just plan to send ya the whole 600MB or so. ;)
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