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DHS Shuts Down Dwolla Payments To and From Mt. Gox

Soulskill posted about a year ago | from the plot-thickens dept.

Bitcoin 302

An anonymous reader sends this excerpt from BetaBeat: "The Department of Homeland Security appears to have shut down the ability to use Dwolla, a mobile payment service, to withdraw and deposit money into Mt. Gox, a Bitcoin trading platform. ... A representative for Dwolla told Betabeat that the company is 'not party' to this matter and encourages those with questions to reach out to Mt. Gox or the DHS. 'The Department of Homeland Security and U.S. District Court for the District of Maryland issued a 'Seizure Warrant' for the funds associated with Mutum Sigillium's Dwolla account (a.k.a. Mt. Gox),' he said. 'In light of the court order, procured by the Department of Homeland Security, Dwolla has ceased all account activities associated with Dwolla services for Mutum Sigillum while Dwolla's holding partner transferred Mutum Sigillium's balance, per the warrant.'"

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It's started... (5, Insightful)

curunir (98273) | about a year ago | (#43726003)

The government finally decided to care and used the one achilles heel of BitCoin...conversion to and from dollars. If BitCoin had some innate value, it wouldn't be a problem, but since it's primary use is as an exchange currency for dodging taxes and selling goods on the black market, this change is going to seriously impact the value of the currency.The government can't control BitCoin, but it can control US financial institutions and other companies that need to interact with those financial institutions.

We'll now see how well the BitCoin market can operate as a completely stand-alone entity.

Re:It's started... (5, Informative)

M0j0_j0j0 (1250800) | about a year ago | (#43726077)

Flash-news for you, there are other currencies apart from the $$....

Re:It's started... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726173)

Remember the online poker craze? It basically died without access to the USD.

Re:It's started... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726445)

Only in the US, in that case. I still see plenty of online poker ads on TV in fair Albion! (Although, tbh, I doubt you're not missing out on much as a result of your lack of online poker...)

Re:It's started... (1)

mindwhip (894744) | about a year ago | (#43727099)

Haven't you heard? Online poker is on its way back but now the government gets its cut by licensing and taxing it which was what the ban on offshore online poker companies was all about...

Re:It's started... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726301)

True, but none that matter in the grand scheme of things.

Re:It's started... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726451)

Bitcoin doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things (at least, for now and for a long time yet). Whole BTC economy is smaller than any of major corporations (and most of minor ones).

Walmart moves a billion USD daily just in form of revenue. All BTC transactions for a day sum up to around 1/30 of that.

Re:It's started... (1)

click2005 (921437) | about a year ago | (#43727033)

Walmart also has lawyers & lobbyists protecting them.

Re:It's started... (1)

gatfirls (1315141) | about a year ago | (#43726589)

Yes, all of those other currencies the exchanges trade at in the .01% range.

Re:It's started... (2)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | about a year ago | (#43726127)

I think you're giving them too much credit. The DHS, like the TSA, is a very stimulus-driven organism. More likely they discovered some suspicious activity was utilizing Dwolla with Bitcoin, and decided to break the link between the two. The intelligence community in the US generally avoids bad PR as long as possible.

Re:It's started... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726255)

More likely they discovered some suspicious activity was utilizing Dwolla with Bitcoin, and decided to break the link between the two.

Quite possibly. And as we now know this week, "suspicious activity" can be as simple as "supporting conservative politicians."

Maybe some day we'll find out what the real reason is, assuming we even find out what the bogus official reason will be. Remind me again why Obama hasn't been impeached yet?

Re:It's started... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726325)

This just in! MtGOX supports conservative politicians!

Seriously, I find it cute how some people believe that virtual currency with total value of ~$1e9 and daily trade volume of ~$30e6 is seen by The Evul Guvmint as a big threat they have to suppress (and not, you know, just another probable fraud/gambling laws/money laundering laws/tax laws violation they deal with daily)

Re:It's started... (3, Informative)

superwiz (655733) | about a year ago | (#43726431)

Using midwestern accents to suggest that mistrust of the government is only common among the ignorant is soooo.... last week.

Re:It's started... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726361)

Remind me again why Obama hasn't been impeached yet?

Hes still a hundred times better than the last guy and didnt slaughter Americans for profit. You asked.

Re:It's started... (2, Insightful)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about a year ago | (#43726497)

Not to defend him, but the last guy ordered capture and detainment. The current guy by far prefers drone strikes, most of which include civilian casualties, and many of which are ONLY civilian casualties (i.e. no terrorist was hit in the strike.)

http://www.policymic.com/articles/16949/predator-drone-strikes-50-civilians-are-killed-for-every-1-terrorist-and-the-cia-only-wants-to-up-drone-warfare [policymic.com]
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/25/world/asia/pakistan-us-drone-strikes [cnn.com]

Also, the last guy didn't lie about WMD's. Yes, there were none, that much is true. However the belief that they were there is not just what the last guy beheld, but numerous other nations did as well. Basically everybody believed there were WMD's, not just the US. It isn't a lie unless you were unaware that you weren't speaking the truth.

Now the current guy? He actively and knowingly lies about who he targets:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/04/09/188062/obamas-drone-war-kills-others.html [mcclatchydc.com]

If you want to talk about innocents being killed, the current guy is much worse. That, and he himself made the argument that he has the right to hit Americans with drone strikes without due process. Personally I'm happy with the one time that this has been done because that asshole had it coming, but it still sets a bad precedent.

Re:It's started... (0)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about a year ago | (#43726513)

Oops, editing mistake on that one. Flip the logic of the lying sentence.

Re:It's started... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726585)

Hey dickhead, everyone else actually knew there were no WMD's, why do you think Europe were so anti invasion?

And that was no justification to invade anyway.

Re:It's started... (2, Informative)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | about a year ago | (#43726829)

why do you think Europe were so anti invasion?

Primarily because the leading politicians were pocketing large amounts of cash from Saddam Hussein's government (or did you miss the revelations about how much money various European politicians were discovered to have received from that government after its fall?).

Re:It's started... (1)

geekoid (135745) | about a year ago | (#43726725)

Increased drone strike at a time when the tech/cost ration begins to maximize? I'm shocked.

No, he isn't. You are comparing a type of attack that wasn't common under the previous guy to all innocents killed.

Under bush over 100K innocents where killed using non drone technology.

Drone tech is more precise, cheaper and easier to use. Is it perfect? no, but either where pilots flying aircraft in the fields.

The fact that drones are an issue only underlines how desperate the republican media is to pin anything on the current president.

Re:It's started... (0)

Jeremi (14640) | about a year ago | (#43727025)

The fact that drones are an issue only underlines how desperate the republican media is to pin anything on the current president.

Also along those lines -- if anyone thinks that a contemporary Republican administration would be avoiding the use of drones for moral reasons, I've got a bridge to sell them.

There are lots of valid points against the use of drones, but given their recent foreign policy history, Republicans are not people with any credibility to make them. Hell, they still can't decide whether they're for or against torture.

Re:It's started... (4, Informative)

NotSanguine (1917456) | about a year ago | (#43726909)

If you want to talk about innocents being killed, the current guy is much worse. That, and he himself made the argument that he has the right to hit Americans with drone strikes without due process. Personally I'm happy with the one time that this has been done because that asshole had it coming, but it still sets a bad precedent.
Emphasis Added

More than 92,000 civilian deaths in Iraq via armed conflict from 2003-2008 [iraqbodycount.org]

4000 deaths by drone strike since 2004 [thebureaui...igates.com]

Please! Get some facts straight there friend.

Blowing my mod points on this thread as you clearly need correcting.

Re:It's started... (2)

The Mighty Buzzard (878441) | about a year ago | (#43726603)

Taking totalitarian methods, ramping every last fucking one of them up, and adding a few of your own now equals better? Good to know.

Re:It's started... (1)

MickLinux (579158) | about a year ago | (#43726421)

Because the last time, when the Republic Revolution frehmen impeached a guilty Clinton, they were removed from office by the Management.

Re:It's started... (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year ago | (#43727079)

Remind me again why Obama hasn't been impeached yet?

Maybe he smoked all the cigars?

Re:It's started... (4, Insightful)

fredprado (2569351) | about a year ago | (#43726191)

No modern currency has innate value.

Re:It's started... (3, Insightful)

LordLimecat (1103839) | about a year ago | (#43726329)

Neither does gold, by that logic.

Re:It's started... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726439)

+1

Re:It's started... (5, Informative)

fredprado (2569351) | about a year ago | (#43726499)

Gold has some innate value in the sense that it can be used directly to build stuff. It is just a much lesser value than its current market value at the moment. Fiat currencies have absolute no innate value.

Re:It's started... (2)

LordLimecat (1103839) | about a year ago | (#43726537)

Even that "innate value" is only value because of the uses we apply to it. It is not an intrinsic property to the gold itself.

More practically, the "innate value" you describe is very low, and comprises a teeny percentage of the gold we mine and stockpile.

Re:It's started... (2)

fredprado (2569351) | about a year ago | (#43726627)

Any value comes from the use we apply to stuff. "Innate value" comes from the value something has on its own, without some external source adding value to it. Gold does have innate value because it would still be required to create many things even if all governments in the planet ceased to be tomorrow. The money in your bank account does not. If you have some cash it may still be used to make a good fire and warm your feet, though.

That said, yes, gold current value comes more from it being used as a currency (and stored increasing its scarcity) than from its innate value, and therefore the former is considerable greater than the latter.

Re:It's started... (4, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | about a year ago | (#43727205)

It's rare. It doesn't rust. It barely reacts with anything at all. It's highly malleable. It's ductile. It conducts electricity. It has plenty of desirable properties. The fact that it's a rare metal that will never corrode makes it perfect as a store of wealth. You can argue all you want with thousands of years of human history. You're still wrong.

Re:It's started... (1)

Mike Frett (2811077) | about a year ago | (#43726707)

It's always been funny to me, I find it silly that Humans all but worship Element 79, other Metals and Paper. The only value any of it has, is the value given to it by feeble Human minds.

Re:It's started... (2)

Jeremi (14640) | about a year ago | (#43726993)

The only value any of it has, is the value given to it by feeble Human minds.

Well yeah, but that's the value that matters. The whole point of currency is that you can trade it for goods and services from... humans (including their feeble minds).

Re:It's started... (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about a year ago | (#43727237)

So so silly, it's a pretty good element.

It's a good conductor of electricity and heat
It's easy to work with.
It's non-toxic.
It plays nice with other elements.
Its very "non-reactive" only certian acids will dissolve it.

It's used in industry, electronics, food and medicine.

Re:It's started... (1)

geekoid (135745) | about a year ago | (#43726779)

BY you're logic sand should be the currency.
not that I am surprised to see yet another person on /. not know jack about currency:

Fiat money is money that derives its value from government regulation or law. SO it has value, even innate value.

Innate is not the word you want. 'intrinsic value' is what you are looking for; look up intrinsic Value theory.

When talking economic, value USUALLY means An amount, as of goods, services, or money, considered to be a fair and suitable.
SO fiat money has value, by definition.

Re:It's started... (1)

fredprado (2569351) | about a year ago | (#43727173)

Innate value is intrinsic value. In this context innate and intrinsic are synonyms. And no, I haven't said anything that would imply sand or anything else (including dollars) should or should not be currencies. Sand does have innate value though, albeit low, differently from dollars.

Fiat money does have value, and again, nowhere I said or implied it does not, but it has no innate value, in the very same way bitcoins do not.

Re:It's started... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43727211)

News flash: all currencies are "fiat", and nothing has any "innate" value.

Re:It's started... (1)

Dunbal (464142) | about a year ago | (#43727183)

Right. So if you see a gold nugget or a piece of gold jewelry on the ground I expect you not to pick it up because it has no value.

Re:It's started... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43727255)

Just like you'll walk by if you see a bunch of dollars on the ground - useless paper!

Concept of intrinsic value seems to be lost on you.

Re:It's started... (3, Insightful)

trout007 (975317) | about a year ago | (#43726369)

All value is subjective.

Re:It's started... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726471)

Innate may be a bad word for it, but national currencies have the built-in value of being able to pay the taxes that allow you to reside in that country. The US dollar also has the distinct advantage of being useful for purchasing oil (and an army that's willing to bomb into the stone age any oil producer that tries to change that.)

Re:It's started... (1)

fredprado (2569351) | about a year ago | (#43726515)

That is virtual value that can cease to be in a moment, in the same way bitcoin value can. Sure, governments with strong economies can keep their currencies healthy, but any economy can dive nose down very quickly and unpredictably given the right (or wrong) circumstances.

Re:It's started... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726687)

If my currency was predicated on people needing to pay taxes, I'd say it's got a solid base.

Re:It's started... (2)

fredprado (2569351) | about a year ago | (#43727123)

Like Zimbabwean dollars?

Re:It's started... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726533)

Looks like Satoshi's Law has been reached.

As the discussion of Bitcoin goes on, the likelihood that some autistic libertarian compares fiat currency to Bitcoin reaches 1.

Funny Money (5, Interesting)

M. Baranczak (726671) | about a year ago | (#43726641)

There's no such thing as innate value. Value is context-dependent. All money is funny money. It's just a question of what brand of humor you prefer.

The US Dollar is like Jay Leno. Dull and unimaginative, but shows up for work on time every night.

Bitcoin is like Richard Pryor. Offensive, unstable, unpredictable, implicated in tax-evasion, and prone to setting itself on fire.

Re:Funny Money (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726959)

Richard Pryor always had a point.

I think that's where the whole comparison falls apart, personally.

Where's the funny? (1)

zooblethorpe (686757) | about a year ago | (#43726965)

There's no such thing as innate value. Value is context-dependent. All money is funny money. It's just a question of what brand of humor you prefer.

The US Dollar is like Jay Leno. Dull and unimaginative, but shows up for work on time every night.

Bitcoin is like Richard Pryor. Offensive, unstable, unpredictable, implicated in tax-evasion, and prone to setting itself on fire.

So where does the "funny" bit come in for Bitcoin? Only I remember Richard Pryor actually making me laugh.

Cheers,

Re:Funny Money (3, Funny)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year ago | (#43727147)

Bitcoin is like Richard Pryor. Offensive, unstable, unpredictable, implicated in tax-evasion, and prone to setting itself on fire.

And dead?

Re:It's started... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726215)

I'm still eagerly waiting for people to show me the "innate value" of the dollar. Something that does not require me to go back to the times where conversion to gold was guaranteed.

Re:It's started... (5, Informative)

LordLimecat (1103839) | about a year ago | (#43726377)

In what way does gold have innate value?

In a rare display of insight, yahoo answers actually explains why the whole premise is absurd...
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120303200416AABp0fx [yahoo.com]

Re:It's started... (1)

ADRA (37398) | about a year ago | (#43726815)

Gold surely has an innate value, but it isn't nearly as high as it's current asset value which relies on people valuing its ability to 'hold' wealth, like land, jadda jadda... any other asset.

But certainly, people wear gold, and electronics and various other industries use gold for its amazing maliability and conductivity.

Re:It's started... (1)

green1 (322787) | about a year ago | (#43727103)

But certainly, people wear gold, and electronics and various other industries use gold for its amazing maliability and conductivity.

Minor nit-pick, gold is actually not a great conductor, it's prized property is that it doesn't generally corrode, that's why connectors are usually gold plated, and not entirely gold. the plating keeps the corrosion at bay, and the underelying metal conducts better.

Gold is "valuable" for it's uses in many industries, including electronics, chemistry, and jewlery. People also drive the price up because they think it will protect them from a crash of fiat currency, but I don't really believe that people would revert to using gold if civilization fell apart, more likely people would barter for things of more immediate importance, food, shelter, heating fuel, clothing, etc. Gold would have relatively little value in such a society.

Re:It's started... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43727223)

Actually come to think of it, both Gold and BitCoin have value for pretty much the same reason. While gold does have some practical uses, almost all of its value comes from its limited supply and people's demand for it. BitCoin's value is pretty much the same - its value comes from its limited supply and people's demand for it.

Innate Value (1)

xdor (1218206) | about a year ago | (#43727087)

Most of your world is made up of things have innate value. Here's a few examples:

  1. Food
  2. Tools
  3. Shelter

All of these items have intrinsic value because they are functional. Could you use any one of them as currency? Yes.

But even if someone won't accept your item as currency: its intrinsically valuable because you could use it yourself.

Food: can be eaten, tools can build things, shelter may keep out the weather. Functionality defines value.

The value of gold as an intrinsic is based on its nearly unique property of very slow oxidation: it does not readily rust. Which means, if gold were plentiful, it would still have tremendous value: we would start plating cars with the stuff!

Re:Innate Value (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43727209)

its nearly unique property of very slow oxidation: it does not readily rust

Wait, wha?..

Re:It's started... (1)

MickLinux (579158) | about a year ago | (#43726483)

The dollar does not have innate value. Fair dealing, honesty, people working together for good, charity, hope, investment, diligence: these things have innate value.

Once upon a time, the dollar was a mathematical variablerepresentation of these things. At that time, it appeared to have innate value. However, as people started to value it as having its own innate value, they separated the dollar from its represented values, and its actual innate value has started to become apparent.

It is entirely possible that the day could come when people will offer vast estates, for any who is willing to separate them from their dollars.

Re:It's started... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726235)

Bitcoin is already destined to crash and burn when they exhaust the supply of chumps they need to create the illusion of being a profitable investment opportunity.

Hopefully the disappearance of one convenient way to exchange them for $$$ will make the influx of fresh money dry up that much sooner.

Re:It's started... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726265)

Dwolla isnt the ONLY payment processor that does USD. Also a lot of the exchanges offer direct deposit.

Re:It's started... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726417)

Except they didn't prevent you from simply using a bank wire.

Re:It's started... (3, Insightful)

pla (258480) | about a year ago | (#43726899)

The government finally decided to care and used the one achilles heel of BitCoin...conversion to and from dollars.

Why would you consider that an achilles' heel? Those of us using BitCoin use it because it blows the dollar away for convenience in certain types of transactions (by which I don't mean "drugs" - Tide Unscented remains the king there, followed by US cash). In particular, any movement of small amounts of money (in the $100 range) between countries typically takes upwards of 50% of the total in various fees (and that assumes 1st-world countries with more-or-less legitimate banking and postal systems on both ends of the transaction).

So, for the reasons I would choose to denominate a given transaction in Bitcoins, the ability to convert it directly to USD has little to no value.


We'll now see how well the BitCoin market can operate as a completely stand-alone entity.

So far, the exchange rate (even if "exchange" may have just become a lot harder) hasn't even dipped outside the normal standard daily swings for USD:BTC. We'll see if the market panics tomorrow, but I wouldn't count on it. I don't use BitCoin because of its value in dollars, and neither, I suspect, do most of its (non-speculating) users.

Bound to happen. (2)

gbkersey (649921) | about a year ago | (#43726085)

Control of currency makes control of people easier....

Re:Bound to happen. (2)

hedwards (940851) | about a year ago | (#43726271)

Not really, in the US we have the USD because prior to that there was an ad hoc system of state currencies and there was nobody in charge of managing it or deciding what was and wasn't acceptable as a form of payment.

As much as I loathe and despise the Federal Reserve, the current still better than having random people creating currency which may or may not be usable next month. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USD#History [wikipedia.org]

Re:Bound to happen. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43727083)

You must be joking. Competing currencies would be a lot better than the current theft through inflation carried out by the US government.

Any bets on whether its a tax issue? (4, Interesting)

LordLimecat (1103839) | about a year ago | (#43726093)

A warrant from the district court of Maryland, does anyone know whether thats likely to be a state tax issue? If it were truly a federal concern, youd think the warrant would come from a federal court....

Can any lawyers comment?

Re:Any bets on whether its a tax issue? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726131)

Would DHS be involved then? I'd bet on money laundering.

It's federal, not state (5, Informative)

SteveFoerster (136027) | about a year ago | (#43726263)

I'm not a lawyer, but I used to work in a law library, and that's know enough to know that "U.S. District Court for the District of Maryland" is a federal court, not a state one.

he's right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726683)

mod parent up

Re:Any bets on whether its a tax issue? (2)

hedwards (940851) | about a year ago | (#43726293)

If it's a tax issue then DHS wouldn't likely be involved. That would likely be the IRS or DoJ, because anything that's likely to violate state tax laws is probably also going to violate federal tax laws as well. Most likely it would be people hiding taxable income.

DHS would probably be involved because there's money being sent into and out of the country without it being properly reported to customs. ICE itself being a part of the DHS these days.

Re:Any bets on whether its a tax issue? (1)

gatfirls (1315141) | about a year ago | (#43726599)

You're probably right but DHS has their fingers in *everything* because, ya know, it's all part of the wildly ambiguous term "homeland security".

See! It it's not just a waste of tax payer money. (4, Funny)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about a year ago | (#43726121)

In fact, I think we need a new Department: DERP - Department of Earnings from Role Playing. Then we can finally shut down the other online currencies like WoW Gold that threaten the almighty buck!

Re:See! It it's not just a waste of tax payer mone (2)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | about a year ago | (#43726181)

they can have half my gold from killing goblins as long as i dont have to share the rest of the loot.

Re:See! It it's not just a waste of tax payer mone (5, Funny)

SteveFoerster (136027) | about a year ago | (#43726279)

And if they use the revenue to fund military research, they could call it DERPA.

OT (1)

lesincompetent (2836253) | about a year ago | (#43726163)

blingtables -A INPUT -s mtgox -j REJECT
blingtables -A OUTPUT -d mtgox -j REJECT
I have issues.

Market manipulation. (3, Funny)

tocs (866673) | about a year ago | (#43726205)

I think maybe some one from DHS wanted to generate some bad publicity for bitcoins. Now they can buy some and make a little money.

Re:Market manipulation. (1)

hedwards (940851) | about a year ago | (#43726307)

Well, why shouldn't they? It's not like BTC aren't already being exploited by pump and dump con artists.

Re:Market manipulation. (5, Funny)

lucm (889690) | about a year ago | (#43726475)

I think maybe some one from DHS wanted to generate some bad publicity for bitcoins. Now they can buy some and make a little money.

If your explanation for this situation was part of a list of 50 explanations where the 49 others are redacted and I had to gamble every dollar I have, I would definitely pick at random one of the other 49.

Yes, that's how bad I think your explanation is. It's like a bad plot for a Steven Seagal movie except instead of being a former Special Ops operative trying to save an orphan from a ukrainian pedophile ring he would be the owner of an indian-friendly BitCoin exchange that throws a fit when he finds out that a retarded intern at the DHS has added the name of his exchange to the no-fly list in order to damage his business and make money. The movie would end with no explanation as to how exactly the retarded intern was planning to make money with this scheme because even while they were high the writers could not find an explanation that would make sense to their undemanding audience.

Could be looking at this all wrong. (2)

shaitand (626655) | about a year ago | (#43726313)

Contrary to what people have said Bitcoin has all the same government protection any other property does. This could be the DHS looking into the billion dollar attacks on gox as a form of terrorism/cyberthreat. They've just cut off the most likely way for the attackers to cash out.

Re:Could be looking at this all wrong. (2)

superwiz (655733) | about a year ago | (#43726387)

Nope, that's not it. MtGox has daily withdrawl limits for this very reason.

Not really news (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726317)

Nobody is actually affected by this except for drug addicts who use bitcoins. That's a segment of the population that doesn't matter.

Re:Not really news (3, Insightful)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about a year ago | (#43726633)

I've bought some pretty nice stuff with bitcoins that I've mined.

Anyways, people like you are the suckers who will let the government do anything it chooses because the evil thing they do only targets ( kiddieporn | gambling | drugs ) so they should be allowed to do it as they please, because clearly only those people will be affected.

Re:Not really news (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43727157)

No, you're the sucker who thinks he can stop them, rather than running for cover like everyone else.

guess they already know (1, Flamebait)

superwiz (655733) | about a year ago | (#43726379)

Obama administration knows that they'll be branded fascist after the last week's revelations. Guess they figured they might as well own it and spank the technology they don't like. They got nothing to lose reputation-wise at this point.

Re:guess they already know (4, Insightful)

anagama (611277) | about a year ago | (#43726575)

Actually, it is more correct to say that the Obama administration can be as GWB-like as it wants, and its reputation will remain amazingly high with Democrats. It's proof that Democrats didn't hate GWB's policies, they just hated GWB personally.

Re:guess they already know (4, Insightful)

superwiz (655733) | about a year ago | (#43726637)

I had no love for Bush, but I think it's quite a smear to compare him to Obama. Bush's administration wiretapped suspected terrorists. They never sank so low as to wiretap reporters. And you'd have to reach back to Nixon to find an administration using IRS to target political opponents. I also don't recall Bush starting any wars without Congressional approval (albeit approval obtained under very, very questionable auspices).

Re:guess they already know (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726809)

... They never sank so low as to wiretap reporters. ...

Except that no wiretapping occurred. Records of calls to and from AP were obtained. Not the content of the calls themselves. This is completely legal under the Patriot Act. It is directly analogous to retrieving email headers (the 'to/from' and 'when') without retrieving the email message bodies. Which is also completely legal under the Patriot Act.

Whether the Patriot Act is a little vague and far-reaching is a different question entirely.

Re:guess they already know (1)

geekoid (135745) | about a year ago | (#43726821)

So tell me, do pubs just not have the ability to remember anything after the guy is out of office? It's like as soon as the term is up you people purge all negative data.

Re:guess they already know (2)

arbulus (1095967) | about a year ago | (#43726825)

That is completely and totally wrong. The NSA has been wiretapping every single US citizen for the past decade. This is well known. And Bush started it. Obama is only making it bigger. Now the NSA has to build a new, gigantic data center out west to house all the data they're collecting.

Re:guess they already know (4, Insightful)

anagama (611277) | about a year ago | (#43726917)

Love it -- hope you get a plus 5 insightful. That was a nice reworking of the "calling him an idiot is an insult to the wider idiot community" type quip.

I totally agree that Obama has been worse than GWB but what is even more disturbing is how Democrats don't even want to know about it and have gone totally silent now that it is their guy doing the abuses.

WTF (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726425)

So the government just makes up the law as it goes along huh.

money laundering... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726487)

Anonymous money isn't supposed to exist in the US in a post-11-sept world. There's basically no way to legally act as an exchange for bitcoins, IANAL by any means, but my understanding is basically that these exchanges exist because no one has gone after them, not because they're overly legal. My *guess* here is that this is the first of many take-downs relating to bitcoin exchanges and anti-money laundering legislation.

Re:money laundering... (1)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about a year ago | (#43726677)

I'd say Chuck Schumer was pissed off because when he ordered the DoJ to cease a certain domain name and related servers, they couldn't possibly oblige even if authorized to use nuclear weapons. That guy is known for getting verbally pissed off at anything he can't control.

Re:money laundering... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726873)

nobody cares about your unconstitutional post-911 regulations. we'll use whatever technical means we can to circumvent them.

I am sorry, you need to use English (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about a year ago | (#43726505)

I think you're trying to write something in another language.

Please check English in your browser for posting, and hit the refresh key.

Thanks!

Sci-Fi Supervillain (3, Funny)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about a year ago | (#43726541)

I can't believe we've gone this many comment and nobody has mentioned that "Mutum Sigillium" sounds like the name of a inter-galactic criminal from Dimension X.

Re:Sci-Fi Supervillain (1)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about a year ago | (#43726613)

That's because it sounds more like a nasal fungus.

Re:Sci-Fi Supervillain (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726891)

It is Latin, and it means: Dumb Seal. Derive from this what you will =P

Popcorn please! (1)

gatfirls (1315141) | about a year ago | (#43726609)

Extra butter and the refillable size please. I'm gonna be here for a while.

Mt. Gox does not appear to have registered ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43726649)

with FinCEN as required to here: http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html which is part of their anti-money laundering efforts; Or at least I can't find it in the search here: http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/msbstateselector.html

If we consider some of the other issues already at play here, ie http://www.electronista.com/articles/13/05/07/facebook.square.dwolla.airbnb.mt.gox.hundreds.of.others.named/

What becomes pretty obvious is that this is almost certainly related to the money laundering legislation, or rephrased: 'what you thought you could just violate the various laws in place for money exchanges because you did it with big hard to guess numbers?'

RIP BITCOIN. It was a dumb idea full of hubris anyways.

Is this really a surprise? (3, Insightful)

sirwired (27582) | about a year ago | (#43727041)

The likelihood that Mt Gox was complying with the "Know Your Customer" anti-money-laundering rules that apply to all financial institutions that handle currency was approx. zero. I'm not surprised in the least. If a bank was doing what Mt. Gox was, (as in, not even pretending to comply with the law), the same thing would happen.

(That's not to say that disobedience of money laundering never occurs, just that experienced banks are substantially better at hiding it.)

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