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Google Unable To Keep Paying App Developers In Argentina

Soulskill posted about a year ago | from the don't-cry-for-them dept.

Google 169

An anonymous reader writes "Google has sent letters to app developers registered in Argentina saying they won't be able to accept payments on developers' behalf after June 27th. 'The change applies to both paid apps and apps that use in-app purchases. The move appears to be related to new, restrictive regulations the Argentine government has imposed on currency exchanges.' According to the Telegraph, 'The new regulations required anyone wanting to change Argentine pesos into another currency to submit an online request for permission to AFIP, the Argentine equivalent of HM Revenue & Customs. To submit the request, however, you first needed to get a PIN from AFIP, either online or in person. Having finally obtained your number, submitted your online request and printed out your permission slip, you could then present it at the bank or official cambio and buy your dollars. Well, that was the theory. In practice, the result was chaos. ... damming the flood has come at a huge cost to the economy, especially since the currency restrictions were coupled with another set of regulations that effectively imposed a near-total ban on any imported goods.'"

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GOOGLE IS TEH DIE FOR !! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43820861)

And you will !! And you will !!

Nicely done Cristina (5, Insightful)

mmarcottulio (2426600) | about a year ago | (#43820889)

Cristina Kirchner, destroying Argentina since 2007.

Re:Nicely done Cristina (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43820907)

Fun how you don't mention her husband.

Nobody knows the exact motive yet, so let's not jump to conclusions, there isn't any measure announced by around that date to make Google take this instance sudden of all. One of the theories is that Google may be trying to force everybody into Google Wallet, though the fact you'd need a foreign account makes me doubt it. Another is that since Google does all operations in dollars they may be trying to bail out of the country to avoid dealing with the legal process for converting them to pesos.

Worth nothing that it isn't just Argentine developers that got this notice, it's just that Argentina was the only country that was in the list of countries where they could send payments before (developers from other countries that got notified were never in the list in the first place, which makes it quite suspicious that they were sent the message in the first place).

Re:Nicely done Cristina (5, Informative)

alantus (882150) | about a year ago | (#43821033)

Venezuela has had a similar currency exchange regulation system for 10 years now.
The limits are ridiculous:
- 400$ for traveling abroad, the paperwork has to be submitted 20 days in advance
- 400$ for internet shopping *per year*
- credit card usage abroad has a different limit depending on the destination and duration. On average 100$ per day, the paperwork has to be submitted 30 days in advance

Basically the government wants to control everything, not only for businesses but also individuals, and it does a crappy job at both. The end result is investments going elsewhere and the economy suffers.

The country has never before been in such a bad shape. Since Chavez took office, the Bolivar lost its value by 992%. This is in the country with the second biggest proven oil reserves in the world, and an oil price of more than 100$.

Re:Nicely done Cristina (2)

ultranova (717540) | about a year ago | (#43821267)

Since Chavez took office, the Bolivar lost its value by 992%.

So... people pay you dollars if you agree to take their bolivars away?

Re:Nicely done Cristina (3, Interesting)

alexander_686 (957440) | about a year ago | (#43821337)

Yes, but it implies a very high rate of inflation. And it matters if you are trying to import anything – like toilet paper, where there has been a recent run.

Re:Nicely done Cristina (1)

davester666 (731373) | about a year ago | (#43823421)

Ew. That's a bad image to picture in your mind.

Re:Nicely done Cristina (2)

Espectr0 (577637) | about a year ago | (#43821589)

It's 3000$ a year, depending on the travel location, which may make it less.

We are currently experiencing heavy scarcity on products. I can't find soap, toilet paper or powder milk.

Re:Nicely done Cristina (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43823177)

We are currently experiencing heavy scarcity on products. I can't find soap, toilet paper or powder milk.

Welcome to socialism. -- Central Europe here, handing over to you the reins of history.

Re:Nicely done Cristina (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821591)

This is what bitcoin is for. And the adoption rate in Argentina has been spiking quite nicely.

Re:Nicely done Cristina (3, Insightful)

Kevin Fishburne (1296859) | about a year ago | (#43821925)

My wife and her family (the latter still stuck there unfortunately) second your emotion. Reminds me of a colloquial definition of insanity that Einstein guy said once. Socialism seems like a great idea on the surface, but for whatever reason it continues to fail and is generally trumpeted by the incompetent and corrupt (sorta like capitalism, but with a greater fail coefficient).

Re:Nicely done Cristina (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822609)

I think that when any person or entity gets too much power, either in Socialism or Capitalism, it generally leads to abuse. Power, profit, ego.

I was once joking when I thought we should be governed by robots that cannot deviate from their programming to serve and protect citizens. But then I realized that's what the purpose of a Constitution is, any Constitution. A set of relatively static laws meant to protect, serve, and guarantee rights.

Re:Nicely done Cristina (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about a year ago | (#43823275)

I was once joking when I thought we should be governed by robots that cannot deviate from their programming to serve and protect citizens.

That vaguely reminds me of the society in Clarke's The Songs of Distant Earth. The president was a boring administrative position, without opportunities to actually screw things up. The position was filled by means of a bi-annual lottery. The only way you could get exempted from the lottery was by means of having a mental handicap or by having committed a severe felony. (Trying to weasel out after having been drawn to be the next president was a serious felony in itself. :-))

Re:Nicely done Cristina (1, Insightful)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | about a year ago | (#43823309)

I think that when any person or entity gets too much power, either in Socialism or Capitalism, it generally leads to abuse.

Two big differences:
1. Socialism requires the concentration of power in one entity. That is what socialism is.
2. In capitalism, even though corporations may become powerful, they don't have the power to arrest or kill you.

Re:Nicely done Cristina (4, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | about a year ago | (#43821129)

Yes but... look Malvinas!

Re:Nicely done Cristina (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821359)

Falklands you insensitive clod.

Re:Nicely done Cristina (1)

chilvence (1210312) | about a year ago | (#43821781)

Yeah, why don't those dirty imperialist Dutch hand back Aruba to the rightful Venezuelan Heirs!

Oh sorry wrong chatroom...

Another currency? (2)

kasperd (592156) | about a year ago | (#43820901)

If the problem is caused by Google not being able to buy the correct kind of currency, couldn't they have offered to pay the developers in a different currency?

Re:Another currency? (4, Informative)

kasperd (592156) | about a year ago | (#43820923)

Couldn't they have offered to pay the developers in a different currency?

Turns out they are sort of doing that. You just have to change which country the account is registered in.

Re:Another currency? (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | about a year ago | (#43820985)

Couldn't they just have two profile settings, country and currency?

Re:Another currency? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43820999)

Or just a field which said "bank account". Currency is not really an important factor.

Re:Another currency? (3, Interesting)

NFN_NLN (633283) | about a year ago | (#43821391)

Or just a field which said "bank account". Currency is not really an important factor.

If you don't get paid in your bank accounts native currency they nickle and dime you on the exchange rate; so it does matter.

I have multiple accounts at the same bank in different currencies. I direct funds based on the currency and do bulk exchanges ONLY if I need to and at a time when the rate is desirable.

Re:Another currency? (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | about a year ago | (#43821573)

Still better than "sorry we can't give you any money anymore" which seams to be the case here.

Re:Another currency? (1)

kasperd (592156) | about a year ago | (#43821583)

Couldn't they just have two profile settings, country and currency?

I was wondering about that as well. Might be they just couldn't add that feature to their system at such short notice. Alternatively it might be they are worried about the legal ramifications of such a change.

Re:Another currency? (1)

alexander_686 (957440) | about a year ago | (#43821399)

That would just shift the burden of conversion from Google to the local developers, so that is not really the answer. The point of this is to artificial restrict the transfer for foreign funds into / out of the contry so the government can get a favorable FX rate to pay off it's bills.

Argetina today equals Brazil of 25 years ago (5, Informative)

alexgieg (948359) | about a year ago | (#43820909)

Here in Brazil we had this kind of policy in the middle '80s. It brought incalculable damage to our economy and to our global competitiveness, together with hyperinflation and other such funny stuff. We finally abandoned this idiocy in the beginning of the '90s and haven't looked back since. Too bad South American countries in general are firm believers in the "But We Are Special!" School of Economics and don't like to do basic stuff such as looking around to see what worked and what didn't to then decide on policies. Argentina is going to suffer a lot in the following years until its government learn the lesson.

For other troubled countries to then disregard, after all, they're special too!

Re:Argetina today equals Brazil of 25 years ago (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43820955)

Please, tell me more about how Brazil requested internet applications for currency exchange 25 years ago.

Re:Argetina today equals Brazil of 25 years ago (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821003)

I'd love to tell you more about the meaning of "kind of"

It starts with "Don't be a pedantic idiot and consider a broader view"

Re:Argetina today equals Brazil of 25 years ago (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821047)

To submit the request, however, you first needed to get a PIN from AFIP, either online or in person.

Not being from Brazil I don't know for sure but I assume 25 years ago it would all have to be done in person. Unless "on a computer" makes it a totally different kind of policy.

Re:Argetina today equals Brazil of 25 years ago (2, Insightful)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about a year ago | (#43822029)

It's not just South American countries. Every country believes they are something special.

Re:Argetina today equals Brazil of 25 years ago (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822183)

You didn't looked back because you didn't suffer as we did from the neo-liberalism process. We currently can't buy a house in pesos, we can only buy it in dollars. Does that happen now in Brazil?
Your judgment is so shallow that it makes me sick.

Let's talk about taking the other countries example, then let's make a general recipe to overcome any economy breakdown, oups! that didn't went well in Greece nor Spain nor any other place where general recipes DONT WORK.

There is no problem for dolar imports, we have no permission to remove dollars from the system not otherwise.

Re:Argetina today equals Brazil of 25 years ago (5, Insightful)

alexgieg (948359) | about a year ago | (#43822531)

Does that happen now in Brazil?

It happened back when we didn't have a stable currency. Then we adopted policies which created a stable currency and it stopped. Amazingly, the US dollar is a stable currency. See a trend there?

There is no problem for dolar imports, we have no permission to remove dollars from the system not otherwise.

Yes, because adopting the economic doctrine of the 18th century (mercantilism) is smart. Here's a notion for you: there is no such thing as actually exchanging dollars for pesos. When someone who has dollars wants pesos that's for the sole purpose of purchasing stuff valued in pesos, When someone who has pesos wants dollars that's for the sole purpose of purchasing stuff valued in dollars. This means that the exchange of currencies goes like this: pesos go, meet dollars, and after a while return to Argentina where they belong; dollars go, meet pesos, and after a while return to the US, where they belong; meanwhile, stuff go from the US to Argentina and and stay in their new home, and stuff go from Argentina to the US and stay in their new home. In other words, currencies are tourists, goods are migrants. If you block one half of one side of the equation, you block the other half, and then the whole equation. The exchange of goods, which is what matters, stops both ways, and you're left with whatever exists within your country and no more. Your oligarchs, monopolies and cartels all thank you gladly, your population is left purchasing overpriced trash (but they all can work in exchange for said trash, woohoo!), and after a few years you're technologically broken.

Have fun!

ralph lauren (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43820917)

Argentina (and other South American bureaucracy) are corrupt. Some, more than others. This is the reason why Ralph Lauren had to bribe officials (but got a backlash from the US citizens), just in order to do business in Argentina.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/22/news/companies/ralph-lauren-bribery/index.html

Re:ralph lauren (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43820949)

All governments and bureaucracies are corrupt. Some, more than others.

FTFY, just take a look at capitol hill.

Not always corruption... (2)

NotQuiteReal (608241) | about a year ago | (#43821117)

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice.

Other variations [wikipedia.org] are available.

We're from the government, and here to help you (4, Informative)

ScentCone (795499) | about a year ago | (#43820931)

Yay for protectionist, isolationist, centrally-managed, paternalistic government-crawling-up-your-pant-legs regulatory over-reach! So stimulating to the economy.

And imagine the opportunities for bureaucratic mischief as more and more layers are added in between someone who has something to sell, and someone who wants to pay for it.

When people complain about "big government," it's exactly this sort of (somewhat) unintended consequence and life-squashing administrative death by a thousand cuts that is really the concern. Too many byzantine rules and hoops to jump through, with too many low-level, unaccountable functionaries being gatekeepers in their own little fiefdoms. In the US, it looks like the IRS's increasing ugliness (to say nothing of what it will look like when they're policing everyone's individual compliance with ObamaCare requirements).

Domestically, this is what's being referred to as the rise of the Fourth Branch. And it's deadly.

Re:We're from the government, and here to help you (0)

nickmalthus (972450) | about a year ago | (#43821109)

Only time will tell if Argentina's monetary policies further the interest of the Argentinian people. Bear in mind that central banks like the federal reserve corporation are creating money from thin air at zero percent interest rates with no end in site for years. There is no reason for banks to solicit investment from the free market when they can just go to the central bank to print more money. Additionally there is marginal benefit for people to save money in a bank with near zero interest rates. Who knows what the long term effects will be of this major shift in investment and glut of global currencies? If a global economic collapse is imminent can Argentina be blamed for try to isolate itself in preparation?

Re: We're from the government, and here to help yo (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821157)

Bullshit. They already don't serve the peoples interests. No need to be reserved about judgement.

Re:We're from the government, and here to help you (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821179)

Is your name seriously "Nick Malthus"?

That would explain a lot about your comment :P

Re:We're from the government, and here to help you (4, Interesting)

paulpach (798828) | about a year ago | (#43821193)

It is even worse in Venezuela,

The government printed money like crazy which caused really high inflation. So how does the government fight inflation? they add price control, which causes scarcity, and currency control which kills imports. Here is a video [youtube.com] showing people that got wind that there was corn meal, chicken and some other products in a supermarket

Re:We're from the government, and here to help you (2, Interesting)

kwbauer (1677400) | about a year ago | (#43821493)

Currency control... done (just with higher limits)
Printing money like crazy... done.
Price controls... started with rent, then health care

Looks like Obama has us moving in that direction.

Yes, currency export restrictions greatly preceded Obama but his "brothers in ideology" are behind all the rent control policies.

Re:We're from the government, and here to help you (3, Insightful)

ElusiveJoe (1716808) | about a year ago | (#43821319)

Governments exists solely for oppressing people, making sure they are "in line". There is no such thing as government that serves the people, by definition. It's the people which serve and obey the government.

Re:We're from the government, and here to help you (1)

goruka (1721094) | about a year ago | (#43821479)

Yay for protectionist, isolationist, centrally-managed, paternalistic government-crawling-up-your-pant-legs regulatory over-reach! So stimulating to the economy.

There really were big efforts to move the country to a more open economy, almost 25 years of effort that resulted in chaos and riots [wikipedia.org] .

In other countries, such as Chile, Uruguay or Ecuador, this process was successful, but Argentina failed to shrink the government role enough to not contract more and more foreign debt. This is the same shitty situation that is now happening in Spain and Greece. If you shrink the role of the government, the government has less income, but if you have a huge foreign debt, the government needs more income to pay it so it has to raise taxes and that hurts the economy a lot.

Argentina instead closed the economy, enlarged the government role (and the income) and is now paying it's foreign debt religiously. A horrible regression but not much of a choice.

Re:We're from the government, and here to help you (1)

loneDreamer (1502073) | about a year ago | (#43822373)

The case of Argentina is peculiar. I this case, corruption is not an unintentional consequence... it is pretty intentional. If you look at Argentina's economic policy, you see plenty of hardcore measures that everybody knew would not work, implemented time and again. They have seen and done everything under the sun. Forcing dollar parity, frozen people's accounts, took people's retirement savings, defaulted on their debt, etc etc. The only constant: people in power benefited. That's why most people in there prefer to work FOR the government (i remember hearing 60%), since at least being somewhat in the loop is better than being on the outside.

SwagScent.com (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43820935)

Discount Perfume, Cologne, and Cosmetics: http://www.swagscent.com

Point of view (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43820971)

This is good news for us Americans here in the United States.

I don't understand... (2)

plerner (2459036) | about a year ago | (#43820981)

... why Google cannot pay to someone? The restrictions are for the Argentinian (yes, like me) that want to buy foreign currency. The company can send the money to the persons bank account, and the developer will get the money in local currency. Besides, in the link above, in spanish, Google does not say it's reasons. For the moment, with these information at hand, I really don't think these restrictions are the reason. Maybe when Google explain them selfs.

Re:I don't understand... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821099)

You can be sure it is due to the government regulations. After all, Google gets a 30% cut of the money - they won't cut off their revenue stream unless they need to. Now, it is completely possible that there are workarounds for the new rules but that implementing said workarounds would cost more than the amount of return - based on the number and profitability of the developers and apps coming from Argentina. Whatever the issue, it will come down to "protectionist government regulations ruining the economy". Hell, my company has employees in Argentina. We can't even get HP or Lenovo computers there. You aren't allowed to import computers. We have to buy these silly BangHo white boxes (which are really just assembled there; all the parts are made in the usual places). Aside: Apparently BangHo didn't know what their name meant in English.

Re:I don't understand... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821491)

Computers aren't even assembled in Argentina, just packaged. It's a massive scam there.

As for the 30% cut, that can easily happen before Google even deals with the developer, really. The developer just sees the remaining 70% in the transaction, and that means that for regulation purposes only those should count as well. So no, that shouldn't cut Google's bottom line. If anything, only the developer should be affected.

Re:I don't understand... (2)

alexander_686 (957440) | about a year ago | (#43821443)

Google works in dollars, developer's in pesos. Unless Google's local operations are in balance, at some point somebody has to do a conversion.

Kirchner want's it done at the official rate, which is favorable to the government, (They have lots of bills from abroad, and want to force the locals to sell dollars cheaply to them.)

Re:I don't understand... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821533)

It's up to the developer to do the conversion, Google doesn't have to deal with it.

HOOKERS: How many of them does each developer need (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821111)

piss in a fish tank
it swims on its own
the precious fluid
i drink and i own

today is golden showers day
something i declare
and if you could smell me
you'd throw up everywhere

Summary is Crap (5, Insightful)

goruka (1721094) | about a year ago | (#43821145)

I live over there. Here's what's going on, I'll try to explain it because even fellow Argentinians don't really understand:

Argentina is a country that is very culturally different to the rest of Latin America, and even the world and likely the right place to look at when you want to see the results of a government being more involved instead of less. By the time of the second world war, Peron [wikipedia.org] did a deep change to the country, created public health, public education (made public university free), public retirement funds, changed labor laws to highly benefit the employees (employeers must pay them many sort of benefits and can't fire them without paying compensation), etc.

Peron tried to made it clear that he wasn't going towards fascism/socialism/communism, but his model was more of creating a capitalism with more social equity through the intervention of the government. Most of the "upper class" did naturally not like this and tried to fight this by financing coup d'etats by the military (It's a little more complex than, but that goes beyond what i'm trying to explain and there's plenty of material to read about dictatorships in Latin America).

My point is that Argentinians are sort of "spoiled" and that has even been transmitted from generation to generation. There is this strange belief that everything that happens is the fault of the government, and that the government should take care of it.

For example, beyond public health, retirement, education, etc. If you are homeless, the government will build you a house. If you are poor and your children can't study, the government will give you money to send them to school. If you are unemployed, you just receive money. Transport is dirt cheap because it's subsidized too, some products are price-fixed to be made more accessible and now the government is even making a line of clothes that is more cheaper and accessible.

The government spends a fortune in social help and taxes are high as the result. But it goes beyond that. The economic model is also designed to ensure that unemployment is really low. They do this by forcing people to spend their money and not keep it, so there is constant inflation and purchasing foreign currency is forbidden. By spending the earned money constantly, the local economy is always very active, restaurants are packed full, and everyone is using credits to buy stuff.

The right wing media opposition to the government is strong and focuses on mainly on corruption and insecurity, to make people feel they are being constantly robbed and freak them out. However, people is employed and is earning decently nowadays so this has a limited effect, which gives place to the saying ("roban pero hacen", translated to "they might steal but they still do for the country") Even the media themselves know they can't mention anything related to a right wing point of view (less state intervention) or people will label them as traitors.

So the big question is if economical stability by this means are worthy. Buenos Aires is a production powerhouse and generates a lot of income, but there is a large part of the population that would not be able to be sustained in a more open economy. As a result, the country is very closed do the rest of the world economy. The rest of the world isn't very healthy economically either.

What's going on with Google is really nothing new. It's extremely hard for Argentinians to be entrepreneurs in this context, so we just open offshore companies in Panama, Delaware or other places and get paid there (otherwise we can't get get paid in us dollars or euros), then transfer our money to the country either illegally (black market price is higher), or legally (needed if you run a company and need to pay your employees). It's not impossible, just harder.

Re:Summary is Crap (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821211)

Summary is not crap.

>So the big question is if economical stability by this means are worthy. Buenos Aires is a production powerhouse and generates a lot of income, but there is a
> large part of the population that would not be able to be sustained in a more open economy. As a result, the country is very closed do the rest of the world > economy. The rest of the world isn't very healthy economically either.

Economical stability ? what ?????? where?? in Argentina? there's 25-30% inflation, Argentina has no US dollars to import energy and other services and so they are taking idiotic measures to obtain those US dollars, like not letting the common man buy things aboard in US dollars, they are now asking people with illegally obtained US dollars to give those US dollars to the government, and in exchange the government will forgive and forget all illegal actions performed to obtain that money... stability? please!

Also, you are basically saying that Argentinian people are stupid and cannot live in an open economy? are you crazy??? who are you to decide what 40 million people are able or are not able to do? are you god?

>What's going on with Google is really nothing new. It's extremely hard for Argentinians to be entrepreneurs in this context, so we just open offshore companies in
>Panama, Delaware or other places and get paid there (otherwise we can't get get paid in us dollars or euros), then transfer our money to the country either illegally
>(black market price is higher), or legally (needed if you run a company and need to pay your employees). It's not impossible, just harder.

?? being forced to do illegal activities to be an entrepreneur basically means you cannot be one.. Also, you are contradicting yourself in the same sentence.. if you can legally take the money to the country, why would you need to illegally open an account abroad? ..

Re:Summary is Crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821301)

It's not impossible, just harder.

?? being forced to do illegal activities to be an entrepreneur basically means you cannot be one.. Also, you are contradicting yourself in the same sentence.. if you can legally take the money to the country, why would you need to illegally open an account abroad? ..

which part of "It's not impossible, just harder" did you not understand ? you do it illegally when it it's easier to do so ... it's easier to do the illegal stuff than to take the money back to Argentina ... just like downloading Game of Thrones is easier using bittorrent than through HBO ... even if you're willing to pay for it legally.

Re:Summary is Crap (1)

goruka (1721094) | about a year ago | (#43821325)

> Economical stability ? what ?????? where?? in Argentina? there's 25-30% inflation,

Inflation is intended and on purpose.

> Argentina has no US dollars to import energy and other services and so they are taking idiotic measures to obtain those US dollars

That was indeed stupid, and the government should have acted before. But then again, do you realize it's the *government* importing the energy? That is not a common scenario, it's usually just the private sector in charge of that.

> Also, you are basically saying that Argentinian people are stupid and cannot live in an open economy? are you crazy?

Were you alive in the 90s? Argentinians clearly cannot live in an open economy.

> they are now asking people with illegally obtained US dollars to give those US dollars to the government, and in exchange the government will forgive and forget all illegal actions performed to obtain that money... stability? please!

I'm really starting to wonder how old are you. Safe Boxes in banks are packed full of US dollars because, after 2001 (foreign banks decided to flee the country and keep the USD savings of their clients), people does not trust the system. It's not really illegal money, just money out of the system.

> being forced to do illegal activities to be an entrepreneur basically means you cannot be one.

Or, that the government does not really care about some illegal activities.

Re:Summary is Crap (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821405)

Inflation is intended and on purpose.

Plus inflation is only a problem for banks and people who hoard money, not for the masses who live with around with what they get every month. When people cry rivers about inflation you immediately know if they serve the rich or the poor.

Re:Summary is Crap (2)

LiENUS (207736) | about a year ago | (#43821965)

So you think life is best lived paycheck to paycheck with no backup in case of an emergency?

Re:Summary is Crap (1)

hsmith (818216) | about a year ago | (#43821289)

Sounds like a wonderland!

Re:Summary is Crap (1)

goruka (1721094) | about a year ago | (#43821345)

It's like a wonderland without the candy

Re:Summary is Crap (1)

kwbauer (1677400) | about a year ago | (#43821509)

"not going towards fascism/socialism/communism" A rose by any other name...

Re:Summary is Crap (1)

kwbauer (1677400) | about a year ago | (#43821561)

So, you can't save for the future which means you will have no money when you are too old to work or hard times come. The only choice is to rely on others to take care of you. All personal responsibility is gone and you are a slave to your government. This sort of thing used to happen back in the day in the States but it was private companies running company towns where the company owned everything and made sure you were always in debt to the company. (Your statement about having to buy on credit fits right in). The big difference besides private company versus government doing it. We, as a people in the States, said the practice was immoral, unethical and illegal because it was essentially a form of slavery. But I guess slavery is okay as long as the few at the top of the government are the owners cause government never abuses its people.

Government Control (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821629)

It used to be to maintain a level playing field in the U.S.

Now it has become a way to get unionized government workers of all stripes to get paid so high (twice the average worker pay) with such good benefits that those workers will automatically vote in more politicians who give them even more pay, while those politicians and ex-politicians and their staffers get exhobitant "benefits" in lobbying, executing and running the "government" programs, however inefficient & duplicative.

Welcome to the USA, United Socialists of America. We change or we merge with Argentina into a true USofA.

Re:Summary is Crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821991)

Watch out for government astroturfing.

seriously.

Re:Summary is Crap (1)

Stinky Cheese Man (548499) | about a year ago | (#43822417)

No unemployment? No homelessness? So all those people I saw living in tents by the railroad tracks the last time I was in Bs As were there just because... they like trains?

Re:Summary is Crap (4, Interesting)

SEE (7681) | about a year ago | (#43822643)

Corrected version of above:

Argentina is likely the right place to look at when you want to see the results of a government being more involved instead of less. Shocked by the Great Depression, like many other countries Argentina turned to a strongman. Once in power, Peron did a deep change to the country, and Argentina swiftly fell from being one of the wealthiest countries in the world to a basket case. Now, instead of being as rich per capita as the US or Switzerland (like it was in the 1920s), it's in the same economic class as Russia and Botswana.

Despite this abject failure, the media can't point this out, because people will label them as traitors. It's extremely hard for Argentinians to be entrepreneurs in this context of unremediated Peronism, which has wrecked the Argentine economy.

Re:Summary is Crap (4, Informative)

GNUALMAFUERTE (697061) | about a year ago | (#43823071)

THIS. I own a software company in Argentina. We used to design our own hardware too, and we manufactured overseas. We did some manufacturing and all of the assembling in Argentina. We were steadily moving towards more local manufacturing. The low Shenzhen prices made it hard, but we where making progress in that direction. All of a sudden, getting dollars and sending them overseas was more expensive and harder every month. Then the overreach of non-automatic licenses destroyed us (you have to request permission 90 days in advance to maybe get a limited import quota of certain items). In the meanwhile, the big hardware stores (Garbarino, Fravega, etc.) continued to bring all-chinese products into the country without issues, even those competing with our products. We had to shut down most of our hardware operations. We put more emphasis on our SAS products. We almost went bankrupt several times, in the end, we made it, but it left us weak and in debt. Some of that debt where taxes. They quickly froze our accounts and took their toll. We've paid most of it, and we're growing again. Well, until the government decides to change the rules in favor of the owners of this country again.

I hear people accusing the Kirschner administracion of being socialists. This isn't fucking socialism, this is a systematic plan to destroy what's left of our economy, while spending more and more money every day on free lunches for the unwashed masses that keep voting for this fucking stupid cunt.

I will be very fucking surprised if anything is left after this bastards are done with our country.

Re:Summary is Crap (1)

xenoc_1 (140817) | about a year ago | (#43822811)

Cristina? Sra. Presidenta, está usted?

Wait, does this mean....my god.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821189)

...does this mean...BitCoin might actually be...good for something!?

.

Sad... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821263)

Im from Argetina, and i can tell u, there is almost no1 that likes this kind of goverment but its dificult for the middle-class people to fight them back. The buy votes and voters... send ppl to kill you or, if u have a store they will break it down and make u pay for thinking an speaking against the goverment.

Almost no1 wants to be like venezuela, we here hated Chavez and we widely hate the venezuela goverment, but sadly enough, we are going to be there... a 2nd venezuela and then, who the fuck knows.... maybe a cuba like country.

Here u r zed that a dollar = 5.60 pesos for the goverment, but u cant buy it... they dont sell.... and be careful not to say out loud u have some dollars at home or u will become an instant target.

Then there is the "blue" dollar, in xchange stores... one dollar = 8.95 pesos but is way too xpensive to buy... imagine buying gadget, a phone, tv, almost anything... take in consideration we have a 21% taxes over the stuff u buy, and a plus 10% for tech stuff, we are doomed.

A 250 dollars item here cost 250x3x7 or 8 or 9.... it depends of the item and the blue dollar... but u can see where im going with this.

My wife is an Argentinian... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821609)

And we travel every year to visit the family. If you say nobody likes the government, but at the same time I see most of my family support it (yes, we are a very small portion of the population), and Cristina Fernández won the last elections (and the economic measures we are arguing here were already in place) with 58% (against 16% of the second-best candidate)... I find it quite hard to swallow that you say "nobody likes the government". No, there is no suc violence or vote buying as you mention (and I as a Mexican can very well spot vote buying and coertion). What happens is that we seldom see beyond our class-level. The country has over 40 million people, many of them way poorer than your average Slashdot poster. And they have really got their lives better since the ultra-free-market nonsense of the 1990s was stopped, after the big 2001-2002 crisis.

As a middle-class Mexican, I'd love to have the public education, health and security systems Argentina has. In fact, those three are important reasons why we regularly consider moving there.

Re:Sad... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822381)

everything this anonymous coward posted is an outright LIE and need to be modded down.

Re:Sad... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822479)

No se en que parte de Argentina vives, pero por favor mudate rapidamente a la realidad.
Si hay en latinoamerica algo definitivamente distinto a Venezuela o Cuba, eso es Argentina.

I don't know which part of Argentina you live, but please move in quickly to reality.
If there is something definitely different in Latin America to Venezuela or Cuba, that is Argentina.

low taxes, justice and peace = wealth (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821341)

Argentina is poor because of it's government.

Simple as that.

You need three things, for a country to be wealthy;

1. low taxes
2. tolerable administration of justice
3. peace

Argentina lacks #1 and #2, where #2 involves for example the Government *not* interfering in your freedom to buy and sell currency.

Re:low taxes, justice and peace = wealth (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822519)

Argentina is poor because the south won here during our "civil war" during the 19 century.

Re:low taxes, justice and peace = wealth (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822817)

Argentina is poor because the south won here during our "civil war" during the 19 century.

There is a saying that "God created Argentina to the image of paradise. To balance things out he also created the Argentinians".
Please, Argentina has always been a rich country in the 19th century and the 20th century.
I lived in Argentina for many years in the late seventies and early eighties, I love the country, the people, their culture. But most problems Argentinians experience, are created by them in the first place (save for a few exceptions).

More accurate headline (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821353)

Argentinian govt bars citizen developers from earning money by developing Google Apps

A much simpler solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43821407)

Would be to do away with the peso all together and switch to using US dollars as standard currency. Nationalistic currency makes as little sense as city specific currency in the modern connected age. A shame the bitcoin is unregulated and unable to inflate/deflate in a manner that would be required to promote the stability required of a global currency.

Re:A much simpler solution (1)

drwho (4190) | about a year ago | (#43821643)

Argentina tried pegging its currency to the US dollar. It was a disaster, because the US dollar rose in relation to other currencies at the time (late 1990s) and so did the Argentine peso. As a result, Argentine goods became expensive to the outside world and imports were cheap to Argentines, and this led to economic collapse. The effects were really bad as it gave a bad name to the economic liberalism which was being introduced at the time.

The country is now totally fucked and will probably invade the Falkland Islands within the next five years, and then loose, again. Except this time they are going to make it a dirty war. The old regime honoured (even worshiped) military tradition. This one, not so much

Re:A much simpler solution (1)

chilvence (1210312) | about a year ago | (#43822053)

It really is sad that our two countries can be dragged into war over an island full of not much other than sheep. It's even a little bit comical that a country the size of Argentina would consider that an 'invasion'. We think of it more along the lines of 'punching a baby in the face'

In the second world war, we gave up the channel islands for a bit, Guernsey, Jersey, and so on. Then we went suicidally against the strongest, proudest country in Europe, with the most awe inspiring and powerful army the world had ever seen, all because we didn't much like what they were doing to the the Poles and the French, the first of which we hardly have a connection to, and the latter of which used to own our country's soil and make our rules. Best of luck!

Re:A much simpler solution (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about a year ago | (#43822063)

"Probably invade the Falkland Islands within the next five years."

Bring it on. We're ready.

The politicians of the UK might not want a(nother) war, but the public and the press wouldn't give them much choice in the matter.

Re:A much simpler solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822663)

It gets worse than that. The last time, the US couldn't pile in because we were in the middle of the Cold War and we seriously had to worry about accidentally touching off World War Last in any confrontation that could bring in the Soviets (and the Soviets were not above cynically donning the mantle of anti-imperialism in the same way the sea is not above the clouds). This time... not so much.

Sure, the UK's military has taken some hits, but they also have more veterans than they did in '82, and the Argentinians still haven't recovered militarily; the disparity between their firepower and a US carrier group is -scary-.

Nor has Kirchner forgotten the lessons of that war. Sure, you can use the issue to whip up support, but if you pick that fight and lose it, your entire government is going down hard.

Re:A much simpler solution (1)

H0p313ss (811249) | about a year ago | (#43822877)

Nonsense, the Americans would not get involved in Argentina, the NATO operation in Libya was commanded by a Canadian and even with half the world begging them they're not touching Syria with a barge pole.

Re:A much simpler solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822847)

You poor bastards almost lost the last one, I look forward to watching UK politicos commint the political hara-kiri that is starting a new Falklands war.

Re:A much simpler solution (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822159)

You went crazy if you think that Argentina is able to move any of it's rusted ship, planes to even try to invade Punta del Este in Uruguay. Really, get ride of you CNN, FoxNews and anothers delirant journalist.

Re:A much simpler solution (1)

GNUALMAFUERTE (697061) | about a year ago | (#43823155)

We invade punta del este every year, but we do it with the white, fat, rich cocksuckers that exploit Argentina until the last fucking dime.

Taking the Malvinas back by force is fucking propaganda, and every government has used them for that purpose. Only Galtieri was insane (and drunk) enough to actually do it.

Re:A much simpler solution (1)

GNUALMAFUERTE (697061) | about a year ago | (#43823103)

Oh, what a great idea! Menem did almost that for a decade. Wanna know how it went?

The US keeps going to war and threatening countries to keep the dollar as the worldwide currency. What a great idea! Use this fiat currency everywhere, and we'll keep the printers right here!. We're subsidizing your lifestyle.

It won't last very long. The oil market is steadily moving towards the Euro, and bombs won't help the US this time.

Pay them in Bitcoin. (3, Interesting)

beltsbear (2489652) | about a year ago | (#43821513)

Problem solved.

Seriously. It is better then having nothing and it is possible the dev could actually cash it in. Bigger devs could have an overseas bank account and get payment into that. Smaller devs could get products delivered to them internationally. It does not solve every problem, but it is better then no payment.

Oh dear.... (2)

GrunthosThePoet (2658483) | about a year ago | (#43821575)

The Argentinian government is going to need something to distract the populous - time for the Falklanders to start digging bomb shelters.

Re:Oh dear.... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822587)

You went crazy if you think that Argentina is able to move any of it's rusted ship or planes to even try to invade the closest Punta del Este in Uruguay. Really, get ride of you CNN, FoxNews and anothers delirant journalist.
And start considering why UK goverment needs to distract british people with another Falklands/Malvinas war...

Re:Oh dear.... (1)

H0p313ss (811249) | about a year ago | (#43822855)

distract british people with another Falklands/Malvinas war...

I do hope you're not suggesting that Argentina did NOT invade the Falklands in the 1980s.

What does currency exchange have to do with this? (1)

Punto (100573) | about a year ago | (#43821727)

While I love bashing the govenment and their stupid monetary policy as much as the next guy (I honestly don't think the president understands how money works), currency exchange policies have nothing to do with this particular situation. Google pays the local developers in local currency, and there's no restrictions to exchange USD to Pesos, you can just walk into any bank with foreign currency, and they'll exchange it for you (at a shitty rate, but again, that's not Google's problem, they're just paying the developers in compliance with the local laws). Money is coming into the country, not going out, the govenment has no problem with that.

If I had to guess (which I do because there's no information about this so far) I'd say it's not worth it for them to keep offices here to deal with paying the local developers, since they're not allowed to take their profits from other services out of the country (due to the exchange restrictions), so there's no point in having local operations.

Re:What does currency exchange have to do with thi (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822025)

Finally. Someone with some senses.

this not only happens with Google. all foreing operations in the country are halted.

Re:What does currency exchange have to do with thi (1)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about a year ago | (#43822913)

So, basically, if you want to host the files yourself, and do the e-commerce yourself and get the shitty exchange rate yourself, then the government is totally OK with that. But if you want to pay Google to do the e-commerce and currency exchange and file hosting by taking a cut of your profit, then the government will make that very hard. One of the benefits of the international market is discoverability. I don't have to get folks to come to my website to buy my product, they can buy it in the world wide app market via simple search term. This is a benefit the government is making harder for the people to leverage. That is an issue. The end result is that since you can't get any discovery, or take advantage of the cheap hosting and commerce and customer relations (refunds), etc., you can't afford to develop apps.

Isolated economies are over. This is the Information Age. Adapt or become Extinct.

Could somebody please explain? (2)

Sqr(twg) (2126054) | about a year ago | (#43821783)

I don't see the connection. How can a law designed to strengthen the peso (by prohibiting ARS -> USD conversion) be a problem for developers selling apps priced in USD? (This would imply USD -> ARS conversion, which is what the Argentine goverment wants.)

No, no and no! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822121)

In Argentina THERE ISN'T ANY RESTRICTION if you are receiving foreign payments in any currency!!! IT'S a lie!!
I live in Argentina working for european and asiatic companys, in the last 11 years they pay me with bank transfers in u$s and euros then i got AR$ at the official rate in my local bank.
I don't really understand what Google is doing here...

real perspective (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822283)

what you people dont really understand is that the goverment is using those dollars to PAY the WORLD the debt the FMI forced the argentine goverment to adquire in the 90's (corrupt goverment, failed neo-con policies, just like europe now) . its not like "uh goverment is bad, restricting free US dollar hoarding" its like they need those dollars to actually pay DEBT, tons of dollars to pay debt and energy the country need for its blooming economy

Frost 4ist? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822833)

Bye bye ches (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822969)

Even you don't have map information. Argentina is a weak and old country respect to IT.

fu3k!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43822971)

not going to plsay (Click Here BSDI is also dead, also dead, its the goodwiil Expulsion of IPF the future holds ANTIBACTERIAL SOAP. do, or indeed what bureaucratic and
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