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Schools Scanned Students' Irises Without Permission

Soulskill posted about a year ago | from the not-seeing-eye-to-eye-with-parents dept.

Biotech 342

schwit1 writes "Parents in Polk County, Florida are outraged after learning that students in area schools had their irises scanned as part of a new security program without obtaining proper permission. Two days before their Memorial Day weekend break, kids from at least three different public schools — Bethune Academy (K–5), Davenport School of the Arts (K–5, middle, and high school), and Daniel Jenkins Academy (grades 6–12) — were subjected to iris scans without their parents' knowledge or consent. The scans are essentially optical fingerprints, which the school intended to collect to create a database of biometric information for school-bus security."

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342 comments

s/Freedom/Security/g (5, Insightful)

Gothmolly (148874) | about a year ago | (#43872231)

You'll lose both, and deserve neither.

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872317)

What happened to "information wants to be free"? Ultimately we're talking about photos here.

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (2)

Artraze (600366) | about a year ago | (#43872379)

Their iris patterns weren't "information" until they were scanned.

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872483)

OK, that is ridiculous. That would be like saying "If you write something down, it is not information until it is scanned and converted to machine searchable data". However, we all know that is not true. It is information from the moment I write it down. You just can't access it easily without getting a glimpse of the paper. Just like you can't easily access the information points of my iris until it is scanned and you hack the database. But it is still information. Just in a form that is nearly impossible to access - just like my written page of paper.

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (1)

wagnerrp (1305589) | about a year ago | (#43872853)

It's not like you use an image of your iris or fingers to match against in a biometric scan. You have a program that algorithmically breaks the image down into a few key geometries features, so it can more easily be used in a fuzzy comparison during a scan. The information doesn't exist until you scan and process it.

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (-1)

noh8rz10 (2716597) | about a year ago | (#43873213)

i think this program is a good one because it will be used to keep children safe. and some parents may have been slashtards and objected for no reason, which would have made the whole system unsafe.

No, that was pertinent. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43873125)

Your problem is it was devastating to your case.

The iris scans were NOT DATA before they were scanned in.

But you're not really smart enough to get that because you have a hobby horse you're riding like there's no tomorrow: the statement "Data wants to be free" is that once you start sharing data, you can't stop it without huge problems: it wants to be free.

But that means that when you voluntarily share information (for example, by selling copies of a book you wrote), the data you wrote is now free. Before you published, that wasn't data that you had to put much effort into keeping closed up. If you don't want the data to be shared, don't share it.

Here, the iris scans, EVEN IF THEY ARE DATA, ***did not want*** to be collected in the first place. This is the equivalent of burgularizing your home to get the draft copy of your book and making copies of it to give away.

THAT was theft.

SO IS THIS.

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872549)

_Everything_ is information. Haven't you tried Lisp?

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (1)

gorzek (647352) | about a year ago | (#43873229)

lolwut

Is encrypted data just gibberish until it's decrypted, at which point it becomes information? No, it was always information, it was just hidden or impractical to get at without the right tools.

Same with human iris patterns. It's been information all along, it just wasn't easy or cheap to extract.

You'd have to be working with a definition of "information" so narrow as to be useless.

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872621)

Information doesn't want to be free. People want information to be free.

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872901)

Don't anthropomorphize information.

It hates it when you do that.

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872547)

You'll lose both, and deserve neither.

The dead horse is starting to stink. keep beating, though, if it makes you happy.

We are a police state in the US now. The excuses are terrorism, drugs, child porn, whatever - and there's a loud minority of people who want that shit and a silent majority who just grumble on the rare occasions when it bothers them - like having their nail file being confiscated at the TSA checkpoint.

Those of us who saw it coming have lost. There is nothing to do now except wait for the day that it gets so bad - if ever - that regular people start pressuring their politicians to put the cat back in the bag. I have given up. I point and say, "This is where we are headed!" and I get the look of a cow chewing in its cud.

John Q. Public is worried about his job and his standard of living. He has his big screen TV for his football games that he got on sale for $799 and is estatic but there's this niggling feeling that he's getting poorer. His salary hasn't gone down but he's feels poorer. More money comes out of his pocket for health care, groceries cost a bit more, and it costs $30 more to fill his tank - even though there's an oil boom in the US right now.

And we expect him to care about about some pissant Florida town that's scanning the irises of kids eyes for "security".

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872821)

even though there's an oil boom in the US right now.

Oil is not a local industry. Prices are international -- just like software is not cheaper in Silicon Valley.

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (1)

noh8rz10 (2716597) | about a year ago | (#43873241)

there's a natural gas boom, not an oil boom. fuel is still sky high. it costs me $60 to fill my tank and I buy 2 tanks a week.

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872667)

You'll lose both, and deserve neither.

Thing is, this is one rare case where it was not simply the paranoid parents voting for a new security feature. This was done without parents' knowledge.

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (1)

Salgak1 (20136) | about a year ago | (#43873079)

You'll lose both, and deserve neither.

Thing is, this is one rare case where it was not simply the paranoid parents voting for a new security feature. This was done without parents' knowledge.

Yes, but it didn't happen in a vacuum. The terrorists/drug cartels/merchants of fear du jour have scared enough sheep that they've bleated to their shepherds, who have, in their self-defined benevolent wisdom, decided to do this for our safety/for the children/to stop the monster du jour.

The Security State is fueled by teh Burning Stoopid. . . .

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (1)

Hoi Polloi (522990) | about a year ago | (#43872815)

People never seem to learn that security requires people buying into it. If you shove it on them it will fail.

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (5, Interesting)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about a year ago | (#43872985)

We're not really talking about security hear. We're talking about control.

It's a subtly difference concept.

I have done no such thing (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872991)

The problem is that I'm not the one "trading" my freedom for security. The concept is illogical. But wait, you say. You've been taught your entire life that each citizen voluntarily "trades" his freedom for the benefits of being subject to coercive authority. In other words, a citizen volunteers to be subject to coercion. (This is precisely what the "social contract" theory claims when reduced to its core meaning.) Read over that a few times, and see if you can spot the problem. Hint: This will require you to think for yourself.

Here's the problem. The two modes of human interaction, voluntary association and coercion, are mutually exclusive and polar opposite -- that is exactly what gives them meaning. If coercion occurs, then voluntary association is absent -- by definition. If voluntary association occurs, than coercion is absent -- by definition.

A man cannot volunteer himself to be subject to coercion, just as he cannot force (coerce) another man into volunteering.

Therefore it is impossible to "trade" or "forfeit" one's freedom. This is more than just semantics. This is a law of human nature, and the laws of human nature cannot be changed through force of arms (i.e. government).

Re:s/Freedom/nothing/g (4, Insightful)

darkonc (47285) | about a year ago | (#43873069)

Security?? WHAT security?

If some kid is intent on shooting the driver and everybody else on the bus, do you really think (s)he's gonna stop for an eye exam before going hog wild?

And if it's some PTSD-suffering ex-marine blowing up the bus, it's gonna be the same situation -- even if the attacker DOES stop to look in the scanner.

In this case, you get NOTHING for your lost freedom: no security, no safety, no real knowledge after the fact ...

NOTHING

Re:s/Freedom/Security/g (1)

jythie (914043) | about a year ago | (#43873173)

I think in this case neither is on the table. Someone got to buy cool but useless tech. This is more of a case of someone using taxpayer money to make it look like they were 'thinking of the childrens' without actually having any actual effect.

Replicants are a real threat (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872247)

They are everywhere

scanning students for bus? (4, Insightful)

iggymanz (596061) | about a year ago | (#43872265)

pro-tip: when buses are hijacked or children kidnapped, it will be an adult that does it. As for recognizing kids, the driver can work off a paper with thumbnail pictures

Re:scanning students for bus? (2)

Nickodeimus (1263214) | about a year ago | (#43872331)

What you're missing is that a government body has scanned biometric information from people and that information will never ever be removed from the system. This is how they, in a nutshell, put a barcode on every human.

Re:scanning students for bus? (0)

iggymanz (596061) | about a year ago | (#43872429)

nonsense

what you're missing it that "goverment systems" at local, state and federal levels are not well-connected heterogeneous systems, they're mostly islands without standard protocols or interchange formats. this local school's scans will not be available to say DHS or IRS or FBI

Re:scanning students for bus? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872601)

nonsense

what you're missing it that "goverment systems" at local, state and federal levels are not well-connected heterogeneous systems, they're mostly islands without standard protocols or interchange formats. this local school's scans will not be available to say DHS or IRS or FBI

SSSSUUUURRREEE they won't.

And gun-ownership databases won't be leaked to friendly media, either.

Re:scanning students for bus? (5, Insightful)

Nickodeimus (1263214) | about a year ago | (#43872633)

...and it takes one law or event like 9/11 to change that. This is the problem with almost all government overreach. It starts out as a benign "think of the children" scenario and turns into something that is monstrous because some law perverts what was originally intended.

Re:scanning students for bus? (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about a year ago | (#43873043)

And it takes your typical government contractor to slay that particular monster.

"You wanted it in a standard data format? You didn't mention that in your RFP. That'll be (a lot) extra."
"Sorry FBI guys, our data doesn't look like your data, that'll cost a couple of million dollars to fix".

And besides, Iris scans change over time [theverge.com] . You were better off getting fingerprints.

Re:scanning students for bus? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872649)

Not well-connected YET. That's why it's called a slippery slope...

Re:scanning students for bus? (5, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year ago | (#43872743)

And yet, once this information is in the hands of a private entity or even a government entity, the DHS can demand it under the Patriot Act and not tell anybody.

At this point, you pretty much have to assume that anything ever collected about you can end up in the hands of government if they decide they want it.

Imagine a world in which children have all of their biometric data collected and cataloged before they can even spell biometric -- because it seems to be happening.

I sincerely hope there are some pretty harsh legal penalties for this, and that the companies are ordered to destroy the data. A school board has no business doing this kind of thing without parental consent. This is just blatant stupidity and over-reaching.

Re:scanning students for bus? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872761)

Subpoena from a judge? Now it is available. I'm not saying they couldn't get the identity information from other legal means, but if it's already in a database and all that's needed is a judge to rubber stamp the access to it, all the easier.

Re:scanning students for bus? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872773)

Which is completely useless because iris patterns change over time.

Re:scanning students for bus? (4, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about a year ago | (#43872419)

pro-tip: when buses are hijacked or children kidnapped, it will be an adult that does it. As for recognizing kids, the driver can work off a paper with thumbnail pictures

I wouldn't put it past some of the older students(grades 6-12 certainly would include a few) to be overtly dangerous; but some iris-scanning nonsense also entirely fails to address that, since a student will be an authorized user and sail right through...

It really doesn't make much sense at all. Even if you wanted to play some electronic-orwell attendance tracking game, iris scanning is both expensive and invasive compared to, say, mag stripes on student IDs.

Is somebody's cousin the vendor? Does somebody in admin or on the school board jerk off to Minority Report every night?

Re:scanning students for bus? (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | about a year ago | (#43872775)

mag stripes on student IDs.

You're underestimating the extent to which the kids will subvert a system.

Re:scanning students for bus? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872881)

They will with iris scans as well, we aren't talking about the NSA here, we are talking about kids. They subvert fucking anything.

Re:scanning students for bus? (3, Insightful)

geekmux (1040042) | about a year ago | (#43872897)

mag stripes on student IDs.

You're underestimating the extent to which the kids will subvert a system.

Yes, and I'm also failing to understand why any of this shit is truly necessary, since it would appear for the most part (99.9999999% statistically?), over the last 50+ years of busing students to/from school, this hasn't been a justified necessity until now, in an era where taxpayers can be bent over at will to pay for greased palm programs.

And we're stupid and apathetic enough to re-elect them.

Re:scanning students for bus? (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | about a year ago | (#43873191)

Well, I grew up in the 1970s, and for the 50+ years before that, people hadn't needed computers in their home.

Also we used to play games in the street.

Things change.

I am playing devil's advocate here. I tend to doubt there's cause to justify such a system. But let's have real arguments about it, not false ones.

Next up cameras monitored by Indians (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872905)

Next up, it will be cameras watched (or not) by Indian outsource workers, gotta make sure they wash their hands, sit up straight and pay attention in class.

Micromanaging moron for a head teacher.

Re:scanning students for bus? (3, Insightful)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | about a year ago | (#43872565)

As for recognizing kids, the driver can work off a paper with thumbnail pictures

I am having a hard time understanding why even this is necessary. What problem are they trying to solve? If my daughter wants to go to a friend's house after school, she gets on her friend's schoolbus with her and goes to her house. Some of her friends occasionally ride her bus to our house. The bus driver didn't ask or care. So far this has resulted in no deaths or maiming.

 

Re:scanning students for bus? (1)

SJHillman (1966756) | about a year ago | (#43872653)

I graduated high school in 2006, but that's basically how it worked for us. If we were going to get dropped off somewhere else or ride a different bus, we just had to give the main office a note ahead of time, which they passed to the relevant bus drivers. It was a simple system that worked well. We didn't need any school ID, every student had at least a dozen teachers that could vouch for their identity if it was necessary.

Re:scanning students for bus? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872795)

I graduated high school in 2006,

Go back to your crib junior.

Re:scanning students for bus? (1)

wagnerrp (1305589) | about a year ago | (#43872957)

I went to high school in the 90s. I took my city's local public transportation home. When I felt up to it, I would run half a mile through the city to catch the early transfer and get home half an hour earlier. Biometricly secured school buses that drop you off in front of your home? Pussies...

Re:scanning students for bus? (2)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about a year ago | (#43873121)

I went to high school in the 70's. We had to push the damned bus uphills. Both ways.

Re:scanning students for bus? (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | about a year ago | (#43872811)

So far this has resulted in no deaths or maiming.

Well it might not at your school. But kids do go missing. The article says that not a single day goes by in the district without a parent enquiring where their AWOL kid is. It might be as innocent as going to a friends house without thinking to phone home. But it might not.

Re:scanning students for bus? (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year ago | (#43872909)

I don't get how that is justification for imposing upon the rights of every single stupid. So what - you have to field an annoying call from a fretting parent once a day. Tough shit.

Re:scanning students for bus? (1)

tibit (1762298) | about a year ago | (#43872981)

I'd say it's the parents' problem. If the district is too stupid to defend themselves from stupid parents and their stupid kids, someone needs to be replaced at the dsitricty. Technical solutions to people problems usually don't work.

Re:scanning students for bus? (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | about a year ago | (#43873143)

Bright kids go missing as well as stupid ones. Kids are kids, and they tend to be thoughtless and they misbehave. And nothing in the intelligence of the parent is going to change it. And no amount of intelligence is going to tell them whether the kid has been thoughtless, disobedient, or been kidnapped.

Just calling people stupid is no answer to anything.

Re:scanning students for bus? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43873185)

Guess what? Kids have always gone missing.

Hell, 150 years ago, people had lots of kids because roughly half of all kids didn't make it to adulthood.

Biometric scanning isn't going to solve missing kids. It's just identification for the NON missing kids.

Re:scanning students for bus? (2)

idontgno (624372) | about a year ago | (#43872943)

am having a hard time understanding why even this is necessary. What problem are they trying to solve?

The problem they're solving is an unholy combination of over-the-top hover-parenting and "internal passport" movement control on the part of government, summarized as: "We will know where you are at all times, and you will be where we know you are supposed to be at all times."

Freedom of movement, like most other freedoms (thought, speech, faith) is a problem for control freaks. Your freedom impinges on their control. If they're making the rules, guess which one wins?

Free people are hard to control. That's a problem for those who want to control people.

Re:scanning students for bus? (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | about a year ago | (#43872737)

pro-tip: when buses are hijacked or children kidnapped, it will be an adult that does it. As for recognizing kids, the driver can work off a paper with thumbnail pictures

Neither of which address the problem being targeted. This is about kids going missing. Parent wonder's why Jonny hasn't arrived home, school knows what if any bus they got on and where they got off. Kid gets on school bus, doesn't arrive at school, school knows kid's gone AWOL.

A low-wage bus driver could be given thumbnail pictures and be required to check the kids on. Which would slow things up. But good luck on making sure the right kids have been ticked off then leaving the bus. That's like trying to hold back a hydrant with your finger.

There's arguments on both sides of whether it's a good idea, bit let's at least not mis-represent the aim of the system.

Re:scanning students for bus? (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about a year ago | (#43873147)

Man, what a complicated way to solve a simple problem.

The free market to the rescue. [amazon.com]

Re:scanning students for bus? (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | about a year ago | (#43873209)

That won't work. You'd need a version with a padlock.

Re:scanning students for bus? (1)

Speare (84249) | about a year ago | (#43872767)

Per the article, it wasn't so much security, like denying unauthorized people from riding. It was security, like having logs that confirm or deny that Mommy's snowflake got on the bus just like they should have. It's still bullshit, it's just a different kind of bullshit.

Re:scanning students for bus? (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year ago | (#43872889)

This isn't about the safety of the kids anymore than tricking parents into submitting biometric data at the local mall for the last thirty years has been. It's about when they're adults and all their personal data has been catalogued for reference before they were even old enough to object.

That said, how dumb are these children? Even in fifth grade, I was keenly aware of things like this and my right to object, call a parent, leave school - whatever it took. Children are typically not as stupid as we make them out to be, so I am baffled that they didn't bat an eye (hah!) at this.

Oh, the ironies... (5, Funny)

Mystakaphoros (2664209) | about a year ago | (#43872285)

Meanwhile, down the hall, students were studying the Bill of Rights.

Re:Oh, the ironies... (2)

nitehawk214 (222219) | about a year ago | (#43872313)

Which, sadly, the "o" in "Bill of Rights" was concealing an iris scanning camera.

Re:Oh, the ironies... (5, Interesting)

JustOK (667959) | about a year ago | (#43872335)

Illinois high school teacher John Dryden has been reprimanded and docked a day’s pay after informing his students of their Constitutional rights before administering a school-mandated survey about “at-risk behavior.”

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/29/high-school-teacher-punished-for-informing-students-of-their-fifth-amendment-right/

Re:Oh, the ironies... (3, Interesting)

Mystakaphoros (2664209) | about a year ago | (#43872517)

Illinois high school teacher John Dryden has been reprimanded and docked a day’s pay after informing his students of their Constitutional rights before administering a school-mandated survey about “at-risk behavior.”

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/29/high-school-teacher-punished-for-informing-students-of-their-fifth-amendment-right/

Sadly, it doesn't surprise me. When I was teaching high school journalism, I got repeated verbal orders to infringe on student free speech, which I was supposed to follow up on without a paper trail so that admin couldn't be connected to the violation. Got in a fair amount of trouble for "failing to do so" a few times. Needless to say, I don't work there anymore.

Re:Oh, the ironies... (4, Interesting)

stewsters (1406737) | about a year ago | (#43872617)

That teacher is more awesome that he knows. I hope the kids paid attention to the lesson they received that day.

Re:Oh, the ironies... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872751)

Yeah well.. we all know Illinois is completely dominated by right-wing tea partiers who hate the constitution. That tea party Bush guy came from Illinois right? Fortunately, Barack Obama, who is literally the only human on earth who appreciates and protects the Constitution, would never have anything to do with Illinois.

Re: Beck (2)

transporter_ii (986545) | about a year ago | (#43872801)

Glenn Beck loves big government, as long as it is bombing people he doesn't like or arresting them for drugs that he doesn't like. The deficit? It is horrible, just horrible, unless they are printing up money for war.

He had a real chance to make a real difference with Ron Paul, with hours to talk about him on the radio...but the few times he mentioned him was to crap all over him. Oh the ironies that Beck just likes the Constitution when it works in his favor.

A pox on him.

Re:Oh, the ironies... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872605)

No, no they weren't. And therein is the problem.

Re:Oh, the ironies... (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year ago | (#43872929)

Meanwhile, down the hall, students were studying the Bill of Rights.

This clearly indicates how out of touch your expectations of the public school system are. Even in the early 90s, I never dealt with the Bill of Rights or the Constitution as a whole in school. Not even in civics class. The only time we ever discussed it was in third grade, when we each had to remember one paragraph of the pre-amble in class and repeat it. One paragraph.. of the preamble...

Re:Oh, the ironies... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43873019)

Read the 666th amendment: "Dou shall do as i say, not as i doeth"

Biometric school bus security (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872323)

Really, Florida? Really? Of all the things that need to be fixed about your state you're worried about who gets on your school buses?

Re:Biometric school bus security (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872671)

Really, Florida? Really? Of all the things that need to be fixed about your state you're worried about who gets on your school buses?

Ha. All those retirees down there means there are WAAAY too many of them that feel entitled to ride school buses because they're paying taxes but don't have kids in school.

imagine the confusion if (4, Funny)

nopainogain (1091795) | about a year ago | (#43872361)

the kids went home and said "mommy, the school scanned the pupils today".

If anyone should know.. (0)

houbou (1097327) | about a year ago | (#43872397)

All of these issues are pretty much based on so much of the violence which the US schools have been faced for the last 20+ yrs. But the truth is, when it comes to issues of security, for once, there should be clear direction on this from the Federal Government. It should NOT be left to either State, County, Municipal and/or at the school's discretion. The US needs to start acting like the country it is supposed to be, not just the fractions which have appended themselves over time.

Re:If anyone should know.. (2)

bmajik (96670) | about a year ago | (#43872451)

IMO, this is a terrible place for the feds to get involved. What is appropriate for middle schools in urban high-crime areas is not appropriate for elementary schools in rural North Dakota.

School violence is not historically higher now than it has ever been, and overall violence in the US is at an all-time low.

The centralization of education has been uniformly terrible for the US.

Re:If anyone should know.. (1)

wbr1 (2538558) | about a year ago | (#43872503)

The US was designed as a -republic- so that the states could retain a high level of autonomy. Over the years the federal government has usurped more and more of this autonomy.

The factions/fractions of which you speak are likely the 2 party system, and that exists independently now of any states rights. The powers in both parties pander to a few hot button (but ultimately of little importance) issues to please their base, while steadily ruining this country for their own greed and the greed of those with money (IE big corps).

Re:If anyone should know.. (5, Informative)

Hatta (162192) | about a year ago | (#43872629)

All of these issues are pretty much based on so much of the violence which the US schools have been faced for the last 20+ yrs.

Juvenile violent crime has been falling for the past 20 years. These issues must be based on something else.

Re:If anyone should know.. (1)

musterion (305824) | about a year ago | (#43872669)

Utter nonsense.. We should teach our little snowflakes that disciplne and I mean self discipline is a good thing. I realize I'm being a bit atavastic, but teach them to sit down, shut up, and learn.

Re:If anyone should know.. (2)

Seumas (6865) | about a year ago | (#43872999)

What an ignorant statement. We are a union of states. I don't know where the hell you hail from, but the concept is that states determine their own laws and govern themselves. I don't know where people have this ass-backward concept that somehow it all comes from the top-down and the Federal government legislates and controls everything.

Additionally, this has NOTHING to do with "violence the schools have been facing for the last twenty years". The violence has not changed dramatically (especially of the kind you're likely referencing). This is purely a fear-based personal-data grab. Having a child's iris data on record in no way prevents him from committing a crime or being the victim of a crime. All it does is *commit* a crime against his or her humanity by treating them like a criminal and entering them into a life-long database without having actually committed any crime to justify it.

That so many people have the mindset you've shared is actually kind of terrifying. How the hell can people exercise and defend their rights when they don't even understand them?

Where are these parents (2, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | about a year ago | (#43872425)

Where are these parents when it's time to protest actual privacy violations?

Re:Where are these parents (4, Funny)

localman57 (1340533) | about a year ago | (#43872497)

Fucking around on Facebook.

Re:Where are these parents (3, Insightful)

smooth wombat (796938) | about a year ago | (#43872689)

Cheering on the TSA and hooting it up for the Patriot Act.

Overkill Much? (3, Insightful)

sargon666777 (555498) | about a year ago | (#43872485)

Really? We need military levels of record keeping to keep track of school children getting on busses? Seems wasteful, and overkill.. If you need an ID (which I dont think you should for school busses) then a simple picture ID should do.. Growing up my bus driver (and the kids) knew all the kids getting on and off anyhow..

Re:Overkill Much? (3, Insightful)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about a year ago | (#43872837)

We need military levels of record keeping to keep track of school children getting on buses?.

Follow the money. Whoever implemented the system for a juicy fee probably has good connections to the school board.

The whole thing sounds like boondoggle pork to me.

So let's give 'em *MORE* tax money! YAY!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872551)

Everybody who hates this type of government behavior but wants everyone to "pay their fair share" won't make the connection, so I'll make it for them:

All governments abuse power. Give them more power (tax money) and they WILL abuse it.

Don't believe me? Look at Obama. George W. Bush on steroids. Bush never turned the IRS into a trained attack dog. Bush never performed "extrajudicial killings" on US citizens.

Re:So let's give 'em *MORE* tax money! YAY!!!! (3, Interesting)

Sperbels (1008585) | about a year ago | (#43872697)

Bush never performed "extrajudicial killings" on US citizens.

I suppose we don't really know....because the Patriot Act enacted under Bush, made it legal to disappear US citizens in secrecy.

Backdoor Contact lens??? (4, Funny)

RobertLTux (260313) | about a year ago | (#43872581)

i wonder how hard it would be to make a contact lens that caused the scanner to throw an error (or worse was a backdoor into the system).

Scanning Image
Processing
Identified Krystal Rayne Dawnmeadow approved SYSTEM ADMIN ALL ACCESS

(and of course daddy would have told his favorite minion exactly what to punch into a terminal to .....)

Re:Backdoor Contact lens??? (2)

SJHillman (1966756) | about a year ago | (#43872693)

Just ask little Bobby Tables, I hear he got new contacts.

Re:Backdoor Contact lens??? (1)

Dachannien (617929) | about a year ago | (#43872785)

Krystal Rayne Dawnmeadow

An error of type 420 has occurred.

Re:Backdoor Contact lens??? (1)

RobertLTux (260313) | about a year ago | (#43873093)

its all part of The Hack brother would you expect a girl with that name to be a hackers minion??

oblig: Ben Franklin quote (1)

stevegee58 (1179505) | about a year ago | (#43872641)

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

And...dip! (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about a year ago | (#43872691)

More from TFA:

"Parents finally put a stop to it when one child told them it was pretty cool, and that the next day Mr. Johnston was going to show the boys how unique, like fingerprints, were stampings of their ball sac patterns."

School Bus Security? No. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872699)

It's part of a government biometric database, they will encourage you to submit your information by fear.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/05/immigration-reform-dossiers/

I wonder where all my health test results go once "Obamacare" is in full effect.

So what exactly is the problem with this? (1)

lxs (131946) | about a year ago | (#43872765)

Unlike RFID, iris scans can't be used to remotely track your movements, and unlike fingerprints they can't be used to identify your presence after the fact. (Well they can but only with your permission. Even good security camera mostly produces pictures that makes identifying faces difficult. It certainly can't take a sharp enough image of your iris from a distance.)

Re:So what exactly is the problem with this? (2)

fermion (181285) | about a year ago | (#43872925)

Unlike RFID, which is a perfectly reasonable way to implement the safety and record keeping issues that parents want, iris scans cannot be replaced when the information becomes compromised. For instance, when the school database is hacked and the biometric information is leaked, we cannot the change the eyes. Once compromised it is always compromised. This is the general issue with biometric scans. it does not fail gracefully. And of course iris scans are RFID squared. You can't leave your eyes behind.

Re:So what exactly is the problem with this? (1)

SengirV (203400) | about a year ago | (#43872959)

Really? It's a government entity collecting unique biometric data to be stored in perpetuity for no defined purpose. No communication with parents, no direction as to it's use, and school officials employing the typical school system no-think by saying, "I do what I am told". The whole thing smacks of slimy Big Brother tactics.

But then again, you sound like one of those types who like to allow minors to undergo surgical procedures without the parent's consent. It takes a village, absent the parents potential for objections, right?

Re:So what exactly is the problem with this? (2)

lxs (131946) | about a year ago | (#43873181)

Are you seriously suggesting that invading the sanctity of the body is in the same category as taking a close-up picture of their eyes?

Re:So what exactly is the problem with this? (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year ago | (#43873039)

what's the upside to it? apart from them having a db of the irises after doing it, that is.

what's the downside to them keeping a db of penis lengths? nothing. so let's measure everyone!

Re:So what exactly is the problem with this? (1)

SengirV (203400) | about a year ago | (#43873135)

flaccid, semi, or fully at attention? I have to know how to prepare.

No big deal (2)

Archangel Michael (180766) | about a year ago | (#43872865)

Schools can say it was for "Reproductive Health" reasons.

No, there is no concern about over reaching governance!

Just refuse (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43872887)

100% sure I would have refused this in High School and Middle School. Too bad about the young kids who don't know any better, though.

Okay? (1)

Murdoch5 (1563847) | about a year ago | (#43872971)

I'm going to break this down into a few questions and statement: 1) You know what I really like about this kind of argument is when a few years later a kid gets kidnapped and the one thing they're missing are fingerprints! 2) Why weren't the kids smart enough to ask why? In Kindergarten I would of spoken up and said No. 3) Why does anyone care? So they have an iris scan, what good is it to them if you never do anything wrong! In one way it's a really good thing they took these because now they can automatically exclude innocent parties from being accused. It's like genetic profiling, you only hold back from getting a genetic test done if your guilty or an idiot, the innocent offer them up in heart beat and never look back.

This is ridiculous... (1)

realsilly (186931) | about a year ago | (#43873017)

I'm all for parents and schools knowing who is getting on the bus and such, as a basic answer to the age old question "Do you know where your kids are right now?" question. But this is insane. Are there really that many kids that a bus driver or school has to have Bio-metric information on their students? Is that data destroyed when the student leaves the school to go to another school, drops out, or graduates? Who else has access to such data? It's bad enough that there are smart chips in Student ID's but crap is getting out of hand.

Parents, it's time for more of you to Home School.

Outraged won't fix the problem (1)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | about a year ago | (#43873041)

Stop giving up your civil liberties so readily everytime the news starts churning out the Terrorism drama with every "think of the children" campaign. Life is always going to have it's dangers and none of the DHS/TSA stuff to date has saved us from any of it*. The only reason TFA has happened is because people let it happen.

[*] - http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/01/abolish_the_dep.html [schneier.com]

Its security evolution and nothing more. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43873089)

We went from no security, to truant officers, to having photos on file, to security cameras, schools with picture ID's and so on. This is just another step in school security and nothing more. It doesn't share personal information at all, its like a fingerprint which every student openly leaves everywhere anyhow.

Schools have to take care of hundreds of minors everyday that increasingly become more hostile and security risks. And with the ability to be sued for every single little thing I see this as them trying to protect themselves better while protecting the kids better.

Well, both the contractor and the school are happy (3, Insightful)

fufufang (2603203) | about a year ago | (#43873237)

This iris scan device is expensive, ineffective and excessive.

But there are money for the contractors, bribe for the school administrators. Everyone is happy, right?

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