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A Serious Proposal To Fix Windows 8

Unknown Lamer posted about a year ago | from the wget-ubuntu-desktop.iso-and-install dept.

Windows 578

GMGruman writes "Windows 8 is simply not selling, and everyone but Microsoft knows it's a mess of an OS. And the Windows 8.1 'Blue' that Microsoft revealed some details of late last week doesn't address the fundamental flaws. So a team at InfoWorld worked up a serious proposal to rework Windows 8 for both PCs and tablets that fixes those flaws and lets Microsoft's true innovations break free of today's Windows 8, complete with mockups of the proposed Windows 'Red.'"

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Windows on the hoof (-1, Offtopic)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about a year ago | (#43903357)

American beer at the lab,
Produced results rather drab.
The report: "Suggest you shoot these
Horses; they've got diabetes."
Burma Shave

Re:Windows on the hoof (0, Offtopic)

gatkinso (15975) | about a year ago | (#43903429)

Sometimes cold American beerwater is great (very hot sunny days for instance).

Nice objective summary (5, Insightful)

dywolf (2673597) | about a year ago | (#43903359)

Nice objective summary

Re:Nice objective summary (5, Funny)

auric_dude (610172) | about a year ago | (#43903385)

Red pill or Blue pill? Sorry, red or blue flavour of Windos.

No, it's not. (-1, Troll)

bondsbw (888959) | about a year ago | (#43903593)

It is taking the rotting corpse of the dead horse out of its horse casket, standing it up so that some horse believers can still hope it is alive, and beating it.

It's done. If you want a Start menu, pay $5 to Stardock [stardock.com] .

This is the only OS in the world that people complain about NOT having a menu to access applications. It's ok that OS X has never had a Start menu. And I thought Windows was dumb, Linux rules. But all these "expert" users who claim to run Linux or OS X as their primary OS sure seem distraught by something that shouldn't affect them often because, after all, they wouldn't use Windows if their life depended on it.

Re:No, it's not. (5, Informative)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about a year ago | (#43903613)

It's done. If you want a Start menu, pay $5 to Stardock.

Why pay anybody anything? Classic Shell [classicshell.net] is free.

Re:No, it's not. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903803)

Who cares?

Re:Nice objective summary (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903601)

Nice objective summary

Agreed. Despite the writer's obvious bias in saying "everyone but Microsoft knows it's a mess of an OS", the plain truth is that Microsoft knows it's a mess too.

Re:Nice objective summary (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903619)

Why would you expect a Slashdot summary to be objective? (Or remotely accurate? Or free of typos? Or not a Slashvertisement?)

Re:Nice objective summary (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903809)

Nice sarcasm. :)

Windows 8.0 is fine, and so is 8.1. Its about time the massmedia/blogsphere found a new fly paper.

Works for tablets (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903367)

OK, Win8 is an abomination for desktops, but it works realy well for tablets and touch-enabled devices. It was a joy to use with my friend's Sony all-in-one thingy (basically, an iMac rip-off).

Then again, if you want to run desktop apps on your tablet say goodbye to battery life.

BTW, is it possible to slipstream Start8 with the Win8 installation?

Re:Works for tablets (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903511)

it works realy well for tablets and touch-enabled devices.

No, it really doesn't.

Re: Works for tablets (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903705)

Actually I find it works really well for a touch tablet, and windows phone is elegant, efficient, and consistent, too. Each to their own.

My solution for fixing Windows 8 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903375)

I propose a simple and effective solution to virtually all Windows 8 problems: remove it.

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8 (-1, Troll)

mumblestheclown (569987) | about a year ago | (#43903433)

and replace it with what?

slashdot's knee-jerk, karma whoring anti-microsoft nonsense notwithstanding,what would you use instead? there are two competitors for a desktop os replacement:

- OSX - anybody who tells you that this is somehow a better working environment than ms windows honestly is just lying. and then there's the philosophical issue of tighter coupling and control than even the worst slashdot fanboi ever accused microsoft of.
- Linux on the Desktop - the growth of OSX showed that the usual linux trope about there being no possibility for a competing desktop OS to succeed was bollocks. The reality is that when your product, priced at free in contrast to its relatively expensive competitors, gets near zero takeup, then it's time to face reality that the basic product isnt very good. its the brown tap water of a dasani world.

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8 (4, Insightful)

Known Nutter (988758) | about a year ago | (#43903487)

You left out one option: Windows 7.

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8 (1, Troll)

smooth wombat (796938) | about a year ago | (#43903557)

Second option: Windows XP. It's patched, simple to use and stable. The complete opposite of Windows 7.

Whenever we have issues with Windows 7 I always tell folks, "If we could upgrade to XP, all these problems would disappear."

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8 (5, Insightful)

serviscope_minor (664417) | about a year ago | (#43903513)

and replace it with what?

DOS 6.22 of course, with Windows 3.11 for workgroups. I suggest also installing Trumpet Winsock in order to be able dial in to what is known as "the internet. Obviously you'll need to buy a modem for that.

the growth of OSX showed that the usual linux trope about there being no possibility for a competing desktop OS to succeed was bollocks

You do realise that (a) MacOS is very old and already had a very well established software base, and (b) Microsoft Office which is at about the 99.9% monopoly level has supported MacOS (X and pre-X) too?

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8 (4, Funny)

scsirob (246572) | about a year ago | (#43903671)

I suggest also installing Trumpet Winsock in order to be able dial in to what is known as "the internet"

Don't be silly. Use the AOL CD that arrives for free on your doorstep. Every day!

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903573)

Whines about Windows being bloated and having compatibility issues, runs a Linux distro that's neck-deep in GUI bloat and is incompatibile with something daily. Whines about Windows having bad design, just quit several major projects due to the glut of mind-numbingly awful design decisions in major apps lately (see gnome controversy). Etc etc.

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8 (1)

cyber-vandal (148830) | about a year ago | (#43903623)

I bet a large percentage of Mac owners also have a Windows PC/Bootcamp partition/VM as well. I know I do and everyone I know with a Mac does too. Macs also have had some presence in the market since before Microsoft even had a GUI or a monopoly and therefore have been in a better position than Linux or indeed any other competitor that arrived in the 90s.

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8 (3, Insightful)

Lorizean (2861821) | about a year ago | (#43903643)

The main reason why Linux on the desktop hasn't been very succesful is largely a marketing problem in my opinion. Specifically, there is basically nobody who properly markets Linux, so a lot of people have never heard of it and even those that have largely think it's a command-line only hardcore-geek thing. Linux needs an image change and it is slowly happening - look at steam etc. I would also be very interested in your reasoning as to why GNU/Linux isn't very good.

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903723)

Linux usage on Steam actually declined last month. All of the various distributions combined for approximately 1.6% of Steam users.

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8 (5, Informative)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | about a year ago | (#43903771)

> - OSX - anybody who tells you that this is somehow a better working environment than ms windows honestly is just lying.

Quit trolling. Do you even _use_ OSX on a daily basis?

I've been using computers since the early 80s and have used a ton of OSes: Apple DOS 3.3, Apple ProDos, DOS 2.x - 6.x, Win3.1 .. Win8 (inclusive), Irix, BeOS. For the past 2 years I've been using OSX as part of my day job.

My thoughts based on _experience_: As a power user OSX is pretty darn good. You can Alt-Tab into & out-of games all day long without _any_ hiccups. On Windows alt-tabbing back INTO the game almost always forces a 1 or 2 second hiccup. The way Windows manages devices & scheduler in Windows is wonky.

+ The UI is good. Clean and (mostly) well designed (although Apple appears to be making more and more bone-headed decisions lately.) The 4 hot-corners of the desktop (Expose) is fantastic. Borders are only 1 pixel thick in OSX in contrast to the fugly 8 pixel width on Win 8. OS also has the advantage that MS Office shows the menu bar ALONG with the stupid ribbon.

+ On the MBP the trackpad blows away any Windows laptop I've tried.

+ BSD under the hood which makes porting to Linux helluva a lot easier for command line apps. XCode is a decent IDE.

- OSX Virtual Memory still stinks (I've been able to completely hard-lock OSX once about every 6 months) on 10.6 and 10.7.

- GPUs have always sucked on the MacBook. TF2 with everything turned down and barely able to get 20+ fps on a 3 yr old 17" MBP.

= When needed the majority run Windows in a VM (Parallels) and we have a few dedicated Windows boxes. A lot of developers (~20) also run Linus inside a VM (VMWare or VirtualBox) (no Plus nor Neg, equal = tie)

We have an office of ~70 people who use OSX on a daily basis and would also basically agree you are completely talking out of your ass. So yes, OSX is _good_ enough for daily use.

Besides, Linux _already_ won on the mobile space.
http://techland.time.com/2013/04/16/ios-vs-android/ [time.com]

Re:My solution for fixing Windows 8 (1)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | about a year ago | (#43903789)

s/Linus/Linux off-by-character-typo :-/

No problem here (4, Insightful)

flnhst (2008724) | about a year ago | (#43903383)

I have now worked with Windows 8 now since last october, and it is working just fine for me. I have had no problem getting around the new interface.

Re:No problem here (-1, Troll)

geminidomino (614729) | about a year ago | (#43903427)

First and only post since June 2011, eh?

So either the account has been sold or otherwise ended up in the hands of some scumbag "reputation management" firm, or you're as mentally deficient as the "UX" jerkoffs that think a tablet interface on a desktop is anything other than the most brain-meltingly stupid "innovation" of the last decade.

Re:No problem here (1, Insightful)

Big Hairy Ian (1155547) | about a year ago | (#43903531)

My only gripe with W8 is the Metro interface is flat you can't have a tile for one application and then have all the tiles for it's other components underneath. Other than that it goes like stink. I believe the low sales have more to do with desktop/laptop sales plummeting.

Go on troll away see if I care

Windows Red looks horrible (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903387)

The suggestions involved are klunky and the idea of splitting it into 3 OSes is going the wrong way. Windows RT is a disaster because it lacks app compatibility. MS needs to retire it and fully embrace x86 now that intel has fixed it with Haswell.

All that needs to be done to "fix" the start menu issue is make it so the task bar never goes away and the desktop background stays persistent but faded out. You click "START" and tada, the tiles appear right on top of your desktop. It is a simple solution, should be easy to present and works equally as well in mobile touchscreens as it does mice.

Re: Windows Red looks horrible (5, Insightful)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | about a year ago | (#43903441)

The problem with Windows RT was naming it Windows.

Had they just called it RT, or Surface or Metro or something other than Windows, the app compatibility wouldn't be a problem. OSX application support or, out of the box anyway, X or Gtk support didn't harm Android or iOS. The whole thing supports the same CLR as Windows so...

I think what's really hurting them is the insular nature of Microsoft. Spreadsheets aren't cool. Using Power Point in ads is more likely to turn off a user than turn one on.

Re:Windows Red looks horrible (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903443)

Interesting comment about Windows RT. I think the only problem with RT is the name. It shouldn't be Windows. After all, it is the same thing as the difference between OS X and iOS. Windows RT is the iOS competitor. Having two operating systems with different executables and all has not proved a problem for Apple. Microsoft wouldn't have a problem with it either if they didn't position it as "Windows" (which fosters an expectation that you can run Windows apps). It is a success from a technical point of view (create an iPad competitor), but a failure from a marketing point of view (nobody knows what the hell it is and why they would ever want it). Of course entering the consumption device market against iPad and Android tablets at a late date may not have been a good decision either - but it was killed more by marketing and positioning more than anything else.

Re:Windows Red looks horrible (5, Informative)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about a year ago | (#43903459)

You're got to look at it from a business perspective. Microsoft is a 'traditional' software company: They make a product and sell it. They have no model for continuing to make money from their product post-sale, so they are highly dependent upon keeping customers continually upgrading. An increasingly difficult task - Windows XP remained popular for many years after MS intended it to die. Compare to Apple or Google: They don't just make products, but make an ecosystem around it - iTunes, , the app stores, tie-ins to other services, advertising. Every iPhone and Android device is a revenue stream to Apple or Google well after the initial sale.

Microsoft wants to copy that. It's a great business idea. Not always good for end-users though - the factor that enables the ecosystem business model is device usage restrictions. Apple couldn't make money off the iPhones if people were able to install just anything from anywhere, without the App Store taking a cut.

Re:Windows Red looks horrible (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903791)

Apple couldn't make money off the iPhones if people were able to install just anything from anywhere, without the App Store taking a cut.

Absolutely backwards. The app store is a minor profit center after the costs of transaction processing, bandwidth, and store maintenance costs are deducted. (Remember: most app downloads are free, served and downloaded at Apple's expense.) The App Store exists because it enhances the value of iOS (and ensures the loyalty of iOS customers.)

It was (and is) the same with iTunes and the iPod, and with OS X and Mac hardware.

Re:Windows Red looks horrible (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about a year ago | (#43903625)

The suggestions involved are klunky and the idea of splitting it into 3 OSes is going the wrong way. Windows RT is a disaster because it lacks app compatibility. MS needs to retire it and fully embrace x86 now that intel has fixed it with Haswell.

I suspect that Intel hasn't 'fixed it' in a sense fully agreeable to Microsoft:

When a PC sells, there are two main winners: Microsoft and Intel. Everybody else gets to make it up in volume. With desktops and larger laptops that doesn't vex Microsoft quite as much(since AMD anchors the low and some of the midrange and Apple is in the same boat as they are). If MS wants a bright, shiny, touch-whatever future, though, sharing the margins with the single vendor who can implement x86 sufficiently efficiently to hit those sizes and battery lives isn't going to be nearly as entertaining, especially when the rest of the market is buying near-interchangeable ARM SoCs from themselves or whoever wins the knife-fight-of-pricing today.

Re:Windows Red looks horrible (2)

jonbryce (703250) | about a year ago | (#43903673)

"Windows RT is a disaster because it lacks app compatibility."

I'm curious about why people say that. The alternatives people are choosing over WinRT are iOS and Android, and neither of them have app compatibility with the desktop. People don't complain about them not having app compatibility, but they do complain about WinRT not having it. Is it an expectation problem?

Re:Windows Red looks horrible (1)

Extremus (1043274) | about a year ago | (#43903749)

I like your suggestion. I do not mind Metro or that fancy programs manager. The later works quite well from me actually. I use it only when I do not have the application I need pinned on my task bar, which is just 5% of the time. With this in mind, the programs manager in win8 is much easier to use than the previous versions. The translucent background you mention would help to keep context, which removes a bit of overload from your brain.

On the other hand, they should reintroduce the automatic shadow backup feature of windows 7. This feature is no on by default in win 8 and it is much much more difficult to configure. It allowed me to look like a hero to some friends already. ;)

Windows goodbye (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903391)

Windows is notr going to die soon but its days are numbered. Even in terms of desktop experiece they should simply learn from competitors. This company has myriads of ressources, they could hire the best designers and make a difference, they chose not to.

Re: Windows goodbye (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903431)

They have loads of great people. They have built systems and culture that simply does not allow adaptability. Happens to almost all companies with monopolists share of the market. History repeating itself over and over.

Or simply install Linux (2, Insightful)

mauriceh (3721) | about a year ago | (#43903397)

Please people, the "elephant in the room" is right in front of your face.

Re:Or simply install Linux (2)

foma84 (2079302) | about a year ago | (#43903423)

And sits right on the dept. name ;)

Re:Or simply install Linux (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903447)

Americans seem to have gone off voting elephant. Sorry.

Re:Or simply install Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903455)

And the elephant on Slashdot is that Linux on the desktop isn't good enough.

Re:Or simply install Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903503)

And neither is Windows 8

Re:Or simply install Linux (1)

AlabamaCajun (2710177) | about a year ago | (#43903561)

I've been with the beast since the mid 90s before that the Amiga was already better than eight. I've got linux not on several boxes including a MSI winpad (virtual keyboard is flakey but the tablet is faster now).
I've given up on anything past 7 maybe 9 if it cleans up. Anything with a point in it is just 5 bugs fixed and 10 added.
On the other note I know two people that have gone full desktop 8 (overclocked etc) that love it but with one caveat, they modded it with the win 7 hack. LMAO.

Re:Or simply install Linux (5, Insightful)

Merk42 (1906718) | about a year ago | (#43903615)

So in order to solve the issue of a completely different UI, you suggest installing Linux that has a completely different UI (and app incompatibility)?

Re:Or simply install Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903617)

And you know what, I've been using Linux for servers for nearly 20 years now. Last month when my Windows laptop died (SSD crapped out) I installed XUbuntu on a new one and figured I wouldn't bother with Windows.

You know what? Linux on the Desktop is a complete and utter failure, even after all this time. It's utterly unusable. The interface lacks any kind of intuitive process and behaves as if it was designed with the express purpose of being hard to use - I guess that's "leet" though.

Re:Or simply install Linux (2)

KiloByte (825081) | about a year ago | (#43903667)

The worst thing that happened is most distros falling into the Gnome3 trap just as Microsoft left a huge opportunity by making the same mistake with Metro.

Re:Or simply install Linux (5, Funny)

Bacon Bits (926911) | about a year ago | (#43903859)

Suggesting Linux as an option to fix Windows is like proposing Esperanto to fix English.

A separate Windows 7 and Windows Mobile (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903403)

Genius!

Seriously, this is obvious, as is a context-sensitive UI.

I do not want all apps to be full screen only on my 27" high-dpi monitor. I also do not want a start menu and title bar on my 7" tablet. This is only revolutionary if questioning the way MS does things is revolutionary.

Re: A separate Windows 7 and Windows Mobile (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | about a year ago | (#43903467)

I don't know about that. On OSX, there's now an option to full screen apps. Which is great when I'm working in a graphics app or I want an insular terminal experience with no distractions. The problem is that the metro UI is kind of a mess. Charms aren't obvious and the whole thing with gestures is unintuitive. The snap together UI is neat for multiple apps at once, but, that is a slight plus in the face of so many fails.

if it doesn't include pushing more to metro (5, Interesting)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year ago | (#43903407)

then microsoft isn't interested.
the whole point is to get people to use metro apps. to pay for metro apps. to get a cut of metro apps sales.
thus the push towards the metro ecosystem. supposedly it would also fix problems with some malware and so forth, but the real dollar bills would be from getting a cut from everything that is run on the pc. that is a huge pie. unsurprisingly traditional sw makers are asking why the fuck should they bow to that and are moving to subscription models partially as a backup against ms possibly being so stubborn as to force sw to be downloaded from their market sometime in the next 5 years or so.

they could easily do that if metro apps would have started to gain a lot of traction, too bad people don't like metro enough.

the simple fix would be to ship it with possibility to multitask metro apps and to run them in windows as default features, but then people might start asking why bother with metro apps at all. it's not like it's impossible to make touch friendly apps - with esentially the same api's - that aren't constrained to running inside metro vm.

(written on a windows 8, it's so nice that it comes with a pdf reader. too bad you can only run the piece of shit fullscreen and view just one pdf at time! and the fuck does some fucking single player games need my windows account and facebook for? ??).

Re:if it doesn't include pushing more to metro (5, Interesting)

RogueyWon (735973) | about a year ago | (#43903535)

The shift to a Metro UI was one of the big late-cycle mistakes that MS made with the Xbox 360 as well. The second-generation 360 UI which they used through the middle years of the cycle was about as good as anybody's managed on a console. For the final few months of its life, it actually worked really well with Kinnect's voice and gesture commands (which, sadly, couldn't be said for any games).

By contrast, the third generation Metro UI was ugly, hard to browse with a controller and almost unusable with voice/gesture controls. It seemed to have been designed with just two purposes; maximising the percentage of the screen given over to adverts and serving as an early push for the whole "Metro" concept.

Metro's ok for a tablet. Not great, but I've seen worse. For anything else - desktop, notebook or games console - it's dreadful.

The whole thing has the stink of the kind of dumb idea that investor relations departments think up as something that can be pushed at less-than-intelligent shareholders. "Look, we may have missed the whole smartphones and tablets thing, but we've got a really great unified UI concept now that will let us take over the world! Honest!."

It would only take a couple of those big institutional shareholders to get a clue and start asking a few pointed questions about the consumer-focussed parts of Microsoft to make life very, very uncomfortable for the company's management.

But I can see no signs that's about to happen.

Re:if it doesn't include pushing more to metro (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903717)

Take a look at Microsoft's board. It's basically Bill Gates deciding who calls the plays, and right now he's sticking with Ballmer.

If you think about all the areas the Microsoft CEO has to be good at (enterprise/consumer/mobile/entertainment) and all the hats s/he's got to wear (operations/tech visionary/Wall Street PR), it's not like there's a lot of slam dunk choices out there.

Re:if it doesn't include pushing more to metro (1)

Threni (635302) | about a year ago | (#43903777)

> But I can see no signs that's about to happen.

Perhaps that'll come after the share price tanks due to MS missing targets for Windows OS sales.

Re:if it doesn't include pushing more to metro (0)

CastrTroy (595695) | about a year ago | (#43903633)

I don't see why MS couldn't have an app store that sold regular, non-metro apps. Sure resellers would be free to sell their apps however they want, but having the sales mechanism built right into Windows would probably work great for marketing. Just as selling with Google Play doesn't stop developers also selling their apps/games via the Amazon app store, or Humble Bundle, or as an APK on their website, the Windows store doesn't have to be the only way to buy software for Windows. All they really have to do is make it the easiest way to buy software for Windows, and people will naturally want to use it, and developers will naturally want to put their applications on there. I've spent way more money on software in the Google Play store than I have on all my other software purchases combined (not counting operating system purchases) since I got my Android phone 2 years ago. Because it's just so easy to buy stuff. I don't have to retain any registration keys. I don't have to search around a a million different sites for updates, and I don't even have to worry about whether it will install on my new device when the time comes.

Re:if it doesn't include pushing more to metro (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year ago | (#43903687)

I don't see why MS couldn't have an app store that sold regular, non-metro apps. Sure resellers would be free to sell their apps however they want, but having the sales mechanism built right into Windows would probably work great for marketing. Just as selling with Google Play doesn't stop developers also selling their apps/games via the Amazon app store, or Humble Bundle, or as an APK on their website, the Windows store doesn't have to be the only way to buy software for Windows. All they really have to do is make it the easiest way to buy software for Windows, and people will naturally want to use it, and developers will naturally want to put their applications on there. I've spent way more money on software in the Google Play store than I have on all my other software purchases combined (not counting operating system purchases) since I got my Android phone 2 years ago. Because it's just so easy to buy stuff. I don't have to retain any registration keys. I don't have to search around a a million different sites for updates, and I don't even have to worry about whether it will install on my new device when the time comes.

yeah, it would make sense.

but the way you can look at it is this: if photoshop was at that store 1300 and only 1000 on adobes own site... it would be bad pr and the new os would crash even harder than it has now. but by inventing metro you can only buy metro apps from microsofts marketplace, thus the press cannot make direct price comparations, because the apps are only available in the ms store pricing. pretty nifty, eh?

of course the whole metro hubbub is bad pr too. but the 3 dollar apps are just spice. the real meat is the real desktop and enterprise products costing thousands and thousands for organization.. they wouldn't care where it's easier to buy and neither would you if you could save hundreds of bucks.

sales figures? (1)

entirely_fluffy (756018) | about a year ago | (#43903415)

where are the sales figures for Windows 8 compared to other OS?

Re: sales figures? (1)

iamhassi (659463) | about a year ago | (#43903463)

"Windows 8 is simply not selling**, and everyone but Microsoft knows it's a mess of an OS**."

**citation needed

Re: sales figures? (1)

Big Hairy Ian (1155547) | about a year ago | (#43903571)

Hmm try desk/laptop sales slump as processors fail to go perceptibly faster so too do sales of Desktop OS. This isn't a re-run of Vista; Vista was a pig.

Re: sales figures? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903609)

Citation given:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/10/us-pc-data-idUSBRE93914P20130410

Re: sales figures? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903807)

Those are PC sales. WIndows 8 is on more than just PCs. Actual sales of Windows 8 have been keeping pace with Windows 7, at 100 million licenses sold. Inferring installbase from web usage data shows actual users between 60 and 80 million.

Re:sales figures? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903553)

According to this article they have sold 100 million copies so far: http://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/windows-8-sells-100-million-230105134.html

Not at all bad, if you ask me.

Re:sales figures? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903681)

They sold me a copy of Windows 8 with my new laptop.

I wiped the disk and replace it with Windows 7.

So, they succeeded in getting a Win8 license fee from me. But they are failing to get any revenue from me for their "Metro" and "apps" infrastructure.

And, I will switch to either OS/X or Linux (both of which I have used as my primary OS for several years).

Re:sales figures? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903697)

And, I will switch to either OS/X or Linux (both of which I have used as my primary OS for several years).

I meant to say: I will switch to OS/X or Linux before I will accept the "new" MS infrastructure.

Re:sales figures? (0)

CastrTroy (595695) | about a year ago | (#43903677)

Exactly. If Windows 8 isn't selling as well as some thought it would, it's because people aren't buying desktops and laptops. Not because there's anything particularly wrong with Windows 8. Personally, I like Windows 8. I really like the new task manager. It's really great that I can finally see which programs are hogging the disk, since 99% of the time, the disk is what's causing my computer to lag. People say the same thing every time MS changes the UI by any significant amount.

Re:sales figures? (1)

cyber-vandal (148830) | about a year ago | (#43903853)

They could have released an updated task manager as a Windows update and kept Windows 7.

Bad OS or bad GUI? (4, Insightful)

gatkinso (15975) | about a year ago | (#43903417)

If it is simply a shitty GUI on an improved kernel and stack then I will deal with it.

What little Windows development I do is at least 50% command line anyway. My GUI apps simply are wrappers (and quite ugly thank you).

Re:Bad OS or bad GUI? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903527)

Nobody has made any substantial technical complaints about Windows 8.

There's just the hysterical fretting over the UI changes, which are nothing that can't be remedied.

Re:Bad OS or bad GUI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903539)

i know that you have to make shitty interfaces (sigh) to be a real programmer but there's no need to be proud of them.

Re:Bad OS or bad GUI? (1)

54mc (897170) | about a year ago | (#43903543)

If it is simply a shitty GUI on an improved kernel and stack then I will deal with it.

Agreed!

For powerusers, whom I would assume make up a large portion of /.'s audience, a GUI is something that can be replaced or skinned over but a crappy backend is forever

Re:Bad OS or bad GUI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903739)

I am glad I have a quite attractive backend if I might say so myself.

Re:Bad OS or bad GUI? (1)

mromanuk (1318649) | about a year ago | (#43903801)

Me eyes hurt! those colors...

A simple question I have wanted to ask: (4, Insightful)

fredrated (639554) | about a year ago | (#43903453)

how is it 10,000 Microsoft engineers and managers couldn't pour piss out of a boot if instructions were on the heal?

Re:A simple question I have wanted to ask: (3, Insightful)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | about a year ago | (#43903683)

Because of the vision of the manager at the top of the pyramid

Re:A simple question I have wanted to ask: (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903843)

Aye, Steve Balmer pays them so he can watch them piss in everyone's boots. Shame he never figured out that salt can kill the root.

Infoworld (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903457)

I was shocked to see an original article on Infoworld, but then realized they split up 15 paragraphs over 15 pages. You can lead me there all you want, but no way in hell I'm going to read that BS.

Is MS *trying* to commit suicide? (4, Insightful)

TWiTfan (2887093) | about a year ago | (#43903479)

Between Windows 8 and trying to turn the Xbox into some sort of kludgy, half-assed DRM'ed TV tuner instead of a game console, I sometimes wonder wtf is going on in Redmond. Has Steve Balmer just checked out to lunch or something?

if it ain't broke, don't fix it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903489)

I am still trying too figure my way through the changes in office. If you look at the Linux systems, people are choosing Mate desktop instead of gnome 3.

Uh oh. My common sense is tingling! (2)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | about a year ago | (#43903515)

Microsoft should hire Infoword's writers as design consultants. Inforworld's staff doesn't have the luxury of being out of touch with users.

Re:Uh oh. My common sense is tingling! (4, Insightful)

Xest (935314) | about a year ago | (#43903577)

"Microsoft should hire Infoword's writers as design consultants. Inforworld's staff doesn't have the luxury of being out of touch with users."

Judging by the fact that what was really just a simple article when it comes too was presented as some kind of faux-slideshow that randomly went white in the middle with a link return to slideshow (I assume my ad blocker half-killed a popup ad) I'd say they're perfectly well out of touch with users too.

IT IS INFO WORLD THE HOW TO KEEP A MAN TYPE RAG !! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903519)

InfoWorld reads like a woman's magazine you find at the checkout isles. Look today

"Don't trust anonymous
e-currencies like Bitcoin"

"Let's be clear: Cloud computing
will shrink the data center"

"Batten down the hatches -- it's
Microsoft reorg season"

"The right way to manage BYOD"

"Big Brother tech might be
America's last hope for health"

"Read me to learn how to suck a man"

But I don't want MS to fix Windows 8 (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903559)

I had it with Microsoft's strong-arming me anytime they feel like, and other tactics they can afford to use as a monopolist. Windows 8 has the chance to be the straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back.

So please Microsoft, don't listen to these proposals - push right ahead with Metro and a GUI that lacks discoverability. That way, maybe, you'll finally your journey into craphood, where you belong.

Windows 8 isn't broken (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903565)

People that believe Windows 8 is broken wrongly assume that Windows 8 was a misguided attempt at refreshing the Windows user interface that went awry.

Microsoft's goal with Windows 8 is twofold:
1. Leverage their substantial marketshare in the desktop PC space to develop an app ecosystem for their tablets and mobile phones
2. Kill the relatively open Windows desktop application ecosystem and replace it with a walled garden with Microsoft as its gatekeeper

Microsoft isn't stupid--they understand that Windows 8 isn't popular, they just don't care. They know that consumers will flock to Windows PCs because they're cheap, and they know that businesses will stay with Windows PCs because Windows 7 is still available and they're locked into Microsoft's server products in any case. The only markets where Microsoft is struggling is the IaaS and mobile markets, and those are the markets where Microsoft is concentrating their resources.

Barring a sudden and titanic shift in the desktop computing market, Metro is here to stay. The people who find that unsettling should prepare to move away from Windows.

Windows Red...Wedding (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903579)

Kill it. Mercilessly.

A la Game of Thrones.

Microsoft ads motion background. Still doesn't get (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903585)

In "good design", motion is supposed to direct your eye to important interface elements.

Panes or "Tetris Elements" or whatever they fucking call the distracting moving, flipping visual mess in Metro has been designed solely for distraction. Every task in Windows 8 takes longer amongst the worthless visual clutter begging for your attention. Why is this box jumping and drawing my eye? I don't know, it's not showing me anything new, and meanwhile I need to flip through another six pages of Tetris to find my bloody app.

My new company laptop came with it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903605)

Posting as AC because I don't remember my password (last post was over a year ago).

I figured I'd give it a shot for two or three days and then blow it away and put my usual mix of Kubuntu and Win7 on it. I actually got used to it in two days for the most part. Of course there are some settings that have moved around (they seem to do that every version) but the start screen is quite handy once you get the hang of it.

There are things I really really like about it:
Speed. Boots fast, loads apps fast, searches are all fast. Very fast.
The giant icons are easy to click in a hurry, and the right click on them brings up the options I use all the time.
Wireless is super simple.
Desktop mode is great for 90% of what I do with the thing (coding, charting, etc). The basic mode is not super useful, but is nice for when I'm on the couch and want to check the weather or sports scores. It's also nice for my wife and daughter to use for their purposes.
Multi-monitor support! Obviously this has been around forever, but 8 is the first version that SEAMLESSLY detects my display state and configures itself accordingly without any work. I have a few scenarios: A) Just notebook screen B) Docking station with notebook screen and two extra monitors C) notebook screen with single monitor directly connected to notebook. Windows 8 identifies the situation and supports whatever setup in about 3 seconds.

Things I don't like:
It takes me forever to find the Shutdown/Restart option in the GUI. I typically hit Start Key and type "shutdown.exe -r -t 0" or "-s -t 0" to do so since I've been a CLI guy for years, so I just do that. I should devote myself to finding it in the UI but I'm too lazy and figure it should be easier.
The live bouncing tiles are not ADD friendly! I disabled all of those. I can see some being useful, but I had to shut those off.
The basic mode Email client was never able to send email for me. Might have been a configuration problem, but I've never had that problem with any other email client (IMAP config).
I understand why it must be the case, but the forced reboots for updates are unfortunate. I feel 8 does a better job of warning me than 7 did, but I still don't like it.
For some reason the logon screen's password box loses focus halfway through my password on first attempt. I thought I was perhaps hitting the touchpad, but even with the touchpad it still does it. Weird and annoying.
Sometimes after I disconnect from my VPN, all networking fails and I must reboot. This is likely due to my VPN client but this doesn't happen in Windows 7 (or Kubuntu) on my old machine.

That's probably enough. I guess I just wrote this to say, I've been a Windows and Linux power user for the last few decades and have found a decent amount of value in Win8, and would install it over Win7 for daily use. I'm not sure I would pay for an upgrade, but if I were replacing my machine or had MSDN or student discounts I'd definitely do it. It's a solid, fast OS.

Common Sense.... (4, Insightful)

houbou (1097327) | about a year ago | (#43903611)

From Win 7 to Win 8, the differences are simply too huge.
We've been using a desktop PC for about 20 yrs and basically, the core Win OS hasn't changed all that much. Start Button, Control Panel, etc..
I believe that as long as you have PCs operating with keyboard/mouse that you should be able to have the Win 7 experience. And then again, if possible, the Windows Classic experience without all the frills and thrills.
Well, that's my opinion anyways. It would make sense and it wouldn't be rattling user's cages so to speak.
Microsoft wants to get into the mobile world with their OS. Great, no problem, bring it on, but, maybe, they ought to make it a separate OS. It's going to be a while before a 'one solution' fits all approach will work when it comes to computing. For once, Microsoft should look at how Apple does it. It might LOOK all the same, but it isn't.

and i thought that... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903629)

that hobbled POS Winblows 7 was terrible - glad i'll never use Windoze 8...

MS just needs to move on from windows 8. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903631)

They just need to forget windows 8 and keep offering windows 7 for sales and adding features.

If MS is smart they will learn from this mistake and make different versions of windows. One version that is for laptops and desktops that plays to their strengths and version 2 that plays to the strengths of phones/tablets/smartphones. They can still integrate the ability for them to communicate with each other for easy interaction and such but still be modeled for their individual platform.

That's the only thing they messed up with windows is they tried to make one big umbrella for everyone to stand under instead of focusing on the platforms divided.

The only reason they are pushing windows 8 so hard now is because it is built into the Xbox One and they are trying to get people onboard with windows 8 before it launches. And the Xbox One is an obvious haymaker from MS.

Doing it wrong. (3, Insightful)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about a year ago | (#43903651)

Linux. BSD. Haiku. ALMOST ANY OTHER OS. you're damn proposal to make thing the way you like can actually be acted upon.

The best way to "fix" windows, is to say "fuck it" and not use the shit.

Re:Doing it wrong. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903795)

Hurr durr. Cause you know most users are ready to run BSD or Haiku. Heck even Linux is still not ready for most peoples elderly mothers. They're better served by an iPad or Windows 7. It's the truth. Yes I know your UbuntuMintDebian box runs flawless and you rarely have to edit config files!

thats not a fix! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903653)

The solution presented in TFA of splitting the OS into 3 flavors is exactly the wrong approach. What's truly needed is a complete reworking of the pointer device stack so touch can be treated differently from a mouse click. For legacy support, a touch should be able to be converted to a mouse click action for older applications, but a mouse gesture shouldn't ever be required to emulate a touch/swipe.

Hell, make make touch support and all its UI additions be a Windows "feature" that can be enabled/disabled in the Features wizard.

This with the UI changes already proposed with 8.1 and should have an OS that people wouldn't fear using anymore than previous flavors of Windows.

Fix? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903727)

The only way to fix Windows 8 is to delete it from your HD. Steam already works on Mac OS X and Linux anyway.

Not great editing oversite on that article. (4, Insightful)

OvidNaso (2660721) | about a year ago | (#43903731)

It links you in the third paragraph to "20 things you will love about Windows 8." Number 9 is the "Charms bar." On page 3 they suggest "The Charms bar is eliminated".

PDF reader? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903733)

Does it come with a native PDF reader like Windows(R) Document Viewer (TM) (C) 2012-2013?

Or do you still have to install Adobe or Foxit crap?

What true innovations? (1)

devent (1627873) | about a year ago | (#43903761)

What are the "true innovations"? All I use Windows is to start up my games, I wish there would be some minimal Windows that just shows the desktop where I can double click on the Game I want. For everything else I use Linux.

If I would compare Windows 7 with Fedora Linux with KDE the Windows would look pretty bad. It is missing almost everything I use in Linux. If my games would run on Linux I would happily nuke Windows 7 in favour to some GB of more space.

Best Bet for Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#43903765)

Windows Red looks like a good idea. However, I see Microsoft either taking all those ideas and renaming them and not quite getting close enough because their review process throws parts of it out or maybe using one or two and then claiming they were going to do that all along.

the root of the problem (1)

slashmydots (2189826) | about a year ago | (#43903817)

The start menu shown there is way too too small to work with touch. What microsoft isn't getting is that nobody gives a fuck.

Oh please (0)

stevez67 (2374822) | about a year ago | (#43903837)

It is telling that the same people who whine about any changes to a GUI are the same people who insist existing GUI's are boring, behind the times, dated, uninspired, and/or blah? If bashing Windows 8 is the only thing you can find to write about, perhaps you could branch out and whine about skeuomorphic icons in iOS. Both are vitally important to world peace, curing disease, and the betterment of humanity. lol.
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