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Ethically Monitoring Your Kid's Net Access

Cliff posted more than 13 years ago | from the j-s-mill-never-had-to-worry-about-this dept.

Censorship 401

Anarchitect writes "My step-daughter is almost 11 and, though she's only with her mother and me every other weekend, I would like to provide her with (relatively) unfettered 'net access. Since we all know that the CyberPatrols suck, both technically and ethically, what's the best solution for me (as a part-time parent) to keep an eye on her surfing? I'm not interested in blocking her access, only an awareness of what she surfs so that if I find it to be a morally touchy issue, we can discuss it. Any other parents (or equivalents) who have found a good solution for this?" For starters, Salon's article on censorship and kids, The Morality Police, is a must-read.

"She will be using a Mac, so I s'pose Apple's KidSafe is an option, but I'm not really keen on the concept - seems a little too limiting - kinda like going to the library and only having access to the encyclopedias. Any ideas?"

Jamie wanted to add a few comments:

Yes, KidSafe is a whitelist. Basically you'd be allowing access only to a carefully chosen, tiny fraction of the web. It's exactly like going to the library and only being able to look at the reference section.

If that's what you want and that's all your child is ready for, I can't see any problem with this. It's honest because everybody knows what they're getting. When they want out of the sandbox, they'll let you know.

Here are my suggested rules of the road for kids on the internet, basically a 21st century version of "don't take candy from strangers." What do I have wrong, or what did I forget?

For parents:

* Put the family computer in a family room.

* Be prepared for freaky questions about things seen online -- and let kids know they can ask about anything they see.

* Be prepared in case you learn they are looking at things they shouldn't. Not that this will necessarily happen. But if it does, your gut reaction may not be appropriate -- consider what you'll say.

* Along with that annoying "what'd you do in school today?", try the equally annoying "what'd you find on the internet today?"

* If you use spyware to keep track of what your kids are viewing, let them know. If you don't, let them know you trust them! This is a trust step like the first time they ride a bike past the driveway, or spend overnight at a friend's house. It's your judgement when they're ready.

For kids:

* When you chat online, you don't know who's on the other end. Even if you've talked with them for a year, you still don't know!

* A rule: never type your last name or your city. (First name and state are OK.) Or, make up a fake name, that can be "who you are" online!

* A very important safety rule: meeting online strangers may be allowed (but mom or dad will be coming along). If kids promise to ask, parents promise to talk it over.

* When you're looking for something, use the Google search engine. (Among its other benefits, it's the most kid-friendly.) Always start your search with at least three words. Any fewer, and you're probably just wasting your time. Parents can help you learn how to pick three good words.

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Education and Supervision (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#156369)

Talk to your child about the dangers, and surf WITH her rather than let her surf alone. Particularly with the limited time you have with your step-daughter, there's no reason for her to be surfing by herself.

She'll get more out of spending time with you than she will from the net anyway.

Martin
Writing Resources [hobgoblin.net]

Monitoring your kids heroin usage, gun usage, etc (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#156370)

The article totally missed the point. Any parent irresponsible enough to allow a kid to surf the net either accompanied by an adult, or solo is simply an unfit parent.


If I allowed my kid to take heroin, the authorities would quite rightly lock me up and take my child away. Likewise if I allowed my kid to play around with my semi-automatic rifles the same thing would happen. It should be the same for the Internet.


The Internet is primarily a source of porn for maladjusted socially inept males. It has a secondary use as an information resource, but let us not forget, over 74% of downloads and over 80% of net traffic is porn related.


Now I am not going to argue that porn is wrong. (Although I do believe that only warped and sick individuals would seek to degrade God's gift to mankind by commercializing it). I am just going to say that to a developing mind, seeing pictures like those often found on this website [goatse.cx] cannot be a force for good.


A famous rabbi once described TV as like having an open sewage pipe pouring into your living room.
The Internet is like having the whole sewage works. I mean why would a child be looking at depraved debased unamerican and unChristian sites such as this one [freeq.com] or this or most sickeningly of all [stallman.org] this [tuxedo.org] ?


The answer is to make it a federal offense for a parent to allow a minor in his/her care to access the Internet. Its the only way we can continue the war on porn, and save our children from images such as this [goatse.cx] .
Normally I would not advocate such extreme measures, but if just one child is saved from viewing pornography such as above, it will be worth whatever minor freedoms we would have to give up.

For kids, the Bible can be better than 'Net (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#156371)

Children don't really need the Internet. Learning the Bible is usually a better way for children to spend their time. For example, almost every community has churches sponsoring something along the lines of Vacation Bible Camp. These are day-camps where children can go during the summer and learn about the Bible and participate in fun activities which might include crafts, softball, or swimming. I enroll my children each year and they enjoy it very much. I would rather that they spend their Summer vacations in wholesome activity than worrying about them ``surfing the net''.

Re:For kids, the Bible can be better than 'Net (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#156372)

Coward on Tuesday June 12, @06:24PM EST (#55) Plenty of violence and sex in the bible
True. Many a youngster has turned to the ``good parts'' when learning the Bible. I know I did when I was a youngster. The Bible is the number one all time best seller, and I'm sure that the ``good parts'' have accounted for the reasons behind quite a few of those sales.

Hopefuly the Good News will rub off on those looking for the ``good parts''.

Re:Education is best (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#156373)

Hehe, when I was a kid I had all my porn on floppies anyway. I had my own computer in my room, ran a board, got raided. My mom said something like "Computers? What are you talking about!?" My advice would be to just ignore it.. the more you know the more likely you will be to lose your house when they say she has a $500,000 phone bill racked up through a General Motors PBX. Hehe. :)

Re:squid (2)

Alan (347) | more than 13 years ago | (#156381)

... and make sure you do it with this really threatening 1984 look when you say it... "we KNOW where you're going."

:)

Put it in the living room (5)

Naikrovek (667) | more than 13 years ago | (#156383)

Put your computer in the living room, or within eye/earshot of it. That way everyone who is in the living room will be potentially looking over her shoulder, a great incentive to not visit anything that would draw attention to her.

Re:Bad Idea (2)

The Man (684) | more than 13 years ago | (#156384)

This is too complicated an issue to discard your entire argument out of hand, but when you say

Would you let an 11 year old run around in the worlds biggest porn shop with people who regularly abduct children and plenty of other nasty things? Of course not... the internet is the same thing.

you are missing an absolutely critical distinction: nobody can abduct, or even touch, your child via the network. A second distinction to be made is that not all of the net is pr0n. Comparing the net to a giant pr0n shop is like saying that the entire world is one because you could always walk from the public library to the red light district and buy yourself a dildo. Just as in meatspace, you have to go there of your own volition. It's just easier to get there, that's all.

Let go some... (3)

Ian Bicking (980) | more than 13 years ago | (#156387)

Bah, kids deserve to have time to themselves too. They deserve to have private lives, and to even keep secrets. It's the way a kid figures out who they are, and get an identity seperate from their parents.

Especially because she's only with them for a couple days they need to let go a little. It's all too easy to think, well, we only have her two days every other week -- then for those two days she's ALL OURS. But that's a messed up way to think about it -- she isn't anyone's, she's herself, she needs some control over her life... like having some input as to what she does from moment to moment, and who she does it with.

This reminds me of the free speech notion -- that by being too restrictive of unprotected speech you can have a chilling effect on protected free speech. Similarly, by being to intrusive about inappropriate material, you can have a chilling effect on a child's curiosity about appropriate but -- to the child -- mysterious material.

Re:squid (5)

Jason Earl (1894) | more than 13 years ago | (#156395)

No, the original poster has hit the nail square on the head. Keeping a record of where the child surfed is far better than simply signing up with some CyberPatrol. First of all you get to decide what is appropriate or not for your own children (instead of relying on someone else). Besides, squid at leats gives the child the benefit of the doubt. It doesn't block web sites (unless you tell it to) it merely logs where you have been without blocking off potentially useful parts of the web. It allows you and your child to decide together what is appropriate and what is not.

Parents should know where there children are surfing. The Internet is a fabulous tool, but it is far from benign. If you think that everything out there on the Internet is suitable for 11 year olds, then I pray you never have children.

Watch them... (3)

Kid Zero (4866) | more than 13 years ago | (#156405)

I'd let them know the computer stays in a public area, and I'm liable to watch everything they do.

And then sit down and watch them.
-----------------------------

Re:Duh (3)

garcia (6573) | more than 13 years ago | (#156408)

whatever man. At that age, I really didn't want to spend time w/my parents. I wanted to hang out w/my friends or be by myself and do my own thing. My parents (my father especially) was always willing to spend time w/me and do things w/me, but I was the one that didn't want to do it.

My parents checked through the HD everyday looking for jpg, gif, etc. I just made sure to rename all the files something that they wouldn't look for.

Honestly, if they want to do something, they are going to do it. It's like smoking pot. If they want to get high and they don't want to get caught, they are going to be smart enough about it to make sure you never find out.

I say let them surf the web w/o hindering them. Most kids aren't going to just "stumble" across offensive material and I have yet to have someone just hop on IM and message me dirty stuff (although I suggest having her check "male" as her sex -- you are less likely to have teenage boys messaging her)

That's my worthless .02

You Should Be Doing THIS Anyway (2)

Spud Zeppelin (13403) | more than 13 years ago | (#156418)

Any other parents who have found a good solution for this?

The following solutions are good security practices, regardless of whether you have children to snoop on -- you can protect your internal MIS environment (yes, I know it's a household, but it still has MIS needs) from everything from script kiddies to ill-behaved Windows shares -- especially if you connect via broadband (Cable, DSL, etc.).

Every machine in your house should be sitting on a private network, with a box functioning as a firewall sitting between them and the 'net. Block all web traffic (there's only a half-dozen or so ports) from masquerading directly, and force them through a caching proxy. Then, you can simply inspect the proxy caches/logs to handle this issue; your surfing performance in general will improve as a result of doing the caching regardless of your interest in the logs.

You should also have your firewall log all the masqueraded connections -- again, this is a security measure regardless of whether you want to see if your kid is spending too much time playing EverQuest; it also will protect you from any trojaned apps that may be trying to "phone home" (you see a strange connection in the logs, and block the port).

Good security practices aren't hard, but they do take work. And there's no reason to think that you shouldn't be as/more careful at home (with stuff that's actually yours) as/than you are around the office.


MOO;IANAL.

Re:pfft (1)

Mr. Mikey (17567) | more than 13 years ago | (#156424)

In other words, if you want your kids to grow up with a healthy attitude to sex and their fellow human beings, monitor their activites and restrict their access to anything having to do with sex. Pfft, indeed.

Re:What if she reads this? (1)

kvajk (18372) | more than 13 years ago | (#156428)


Huh? Why should he mind if she reads this?

He'll most certainly explain to her exactly what
he's expressed here: that he wants her to be able
to benefit from the internet, but he's concerned
about what sort of content and/or people she
could be exposed to.
Parents/step-parents shouldn't have to make a
secret of the fact that they're concerned about
what children are exposed to. That is what
parenting is about.

The Darwinian Monitoring Model (2)

LionMan (18384) | more than 13 years ago | (#156429)

Let them do what they want online; in time, the smarter kids will still survive, having not met online pedophiles; and the stronger kids will have survived their meetings with the pedophiles. Natural selection will assure that in the future only quality kids will exist, since the weaker ones will die off know.
Oh wait, ETHICALLY monitoring them?
Nevermind ;)

Commercialized porn (1)

cpeterso (19082) | more than 13 years ago | (#156432)


Now I am not going to argue that porn is wrong. (Although I do believe that only warped and sick individuals would seek to degrade God's gift to mankind by commercializing it).

What is our Great Nation coming to when even pr0n has become commercialized?? I prefer free pr0n by amateurs [supercult.com] .

Yeeehhaa!!! (1)

Unknown Poltroon (31628) | more than 13 years ago | (#156450)

Ride that troll baby!!!

Let it all hang out (1)

daviskw (32827) | more than 13 years ago | (#156456)

It's actually very simple. Don't worry about it. Kids only search on things that they care about after a bit. This doesn't mean they might not experiment, but the truth is at that age moral ambiguity is pretty darn boring. If you are concerned about nudity and such then just make the rules clear and tell her without a doubt that you can look at what she has looked at. Embarassment is a wonderful deterent.

Typically eleven year olds look up what eleven year olds are interested in. If you're concerned about Nazi's, bigotry, homosexuality, nudity, democracy, liberalism, conservatism, and all other sorts of wrongs reaching out and grabbing your daughter, then don't worry about it. They don't reach out and grab and kids find that kind of stuff, stupid, boring, insipid, noxcious, insulting, dumb, and gross.

Kudos to Cliff (5)

SMN (33356) | more than 13 years ago | (#156460)

I haven't been keeping tabs on the Slashdot "departments" recently, but this one --" from the j-s-mill-never-had-to-worry-about-this dept" -- caught my eye.

For the unaware, Cliff was refering to John Stuart Mill, an 18th-century British philosopher who wrote of "the tyranny of the masses," or "the tyranny of the prevailing opinion and feeling." Mill was noting that logic and reason were being subverted by emotional arguments that appealed to the masses. It's a elitist perspective, but IMHO it's a very valid observation.

This is exactly what's happening here -- as the Salon piece very elegantly expresses, there is no evidence that porn is harmful or that censorship is helpful. In fact, it seems to me only reasonable to think the opposite. I may be biased -- but I'm a 17-year-old who's seen plenty of porn (please don't take that the wrong way), but I'm not some psychotic, violent madman or a pedophiliac. In fact, I'm first in my high school class (finishing my Junior year within the week), I'm looking at top-teir colleges, and I spent my Tuesday night last week being a productive member of my community by lobbying against an issue before the local township council (I won't get into the details of that, but as long as I'm bragging, I think I'll note that I've also finally hit the karma cap =). To see people claim that I should have all kinds of mental problems is, to be, downright offensive. This categorization is wrong, but the majority of people believe it, and that is reflected by our society.

But I think that a lot of the Slashdot crowd sees the argument put forth in the Salon article -- that censorship does not protect children, but instead leaves them unable to cope with the realities of the outside world. (There's a very enlightened judge who ruled recently that children "cannot be raised in a bubble" -- see the ruling [findlaw.com] for more.) That's why I'm such a fan of peacefire's advocacy.

But I digress. The point is, Mill's quote is the perfect embodiment of the phenomenon we're seeing here -- that is, the popular view that children must be "protected." Unfortunately, as long as the masses remain uneducated, we're fighting a losing battle. I don't know what can be done to counteract this, but I sure it hope somebody else can come up with something, and soon -- before people like me are no longer able to access these things, and are no longer able to realize this common fallacy.

Once again, Kudos to Cliff for showing once again that occasionally the slashdot editors do make very insightful commentaries in and of themselves (especially Jamie, who's written many great anti-censorship articles). Hopefully we've enlightened another person or two today.

Of course I monitor my son's Internet activity (2)

slickwillie (34689) | more than 13 years ago | (#156461)

He can find the best pR0n [badkittycam.com] faster than I can.

Re:Duh (3)

revscat (35618) | more than 13 years ago | (#156462)

as a parent of two, let me fill you in on a little secret: the only way you're going to know what your kids are up to is to spend time with them. in other words, get off your lazy ass and spend time with them. especially if you only have her 2 days a week. sheesh.

Ah yes, the easy route: flaming. How about instead of just shooting from the hip you come up with something workable? This guy is obviously concerned about his kid, and the only suggetion you can give is "spend more time with them"? Christ, man, that's a given considering the tone of the orginal message.

Oh yeah, and I'm a parent.

Here's my suggestion to the original question: Don't worry about censorware. Just occasionally scan her history, cache, etc., & talk to her in a non-confrontational way about anything you that gives you pause. Censorware usually just pisses kids off and makes them become much better with circumvention than they otherwise would have been.

- Rev.

Instead of shielding... (3)

Hobbex (41473) | more than 13 years ago | (#156464)


Instead of trying to shield the kids from real life, you should take out two birds with one stone and teach them something about it in the process.

If I ever have kids, I'm going to set up a packet snooping / TA system to figure out exactly what they are doing online, and teach them about the lack of privacy on the Internet from the begining. And when they are smart enough to circumvent my spying with encryption, anonymizers, and mixnets, then they have proved they are smart enough to handle whatever they may see...

&& oskar

Proxy ! (1)

chrysalis (50680) | more than 13 years ago | (#156474)

Have another computer act as a proxy/firewall/masquerading gateway.
The firewall will protect a bit the workstation, and the proxy will log every request, so that you can know what your children downloaded. And you will save bandwidth :)

Re:squid (1)

FnordLord (54411) | more than 13 years ago | (#156475)

Dude, it's a MAC! squid is for *nix!

Re:hey i have an idea (3)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 13 years ago | (#156476)

> monitoring harbors resentment
> i bet you don't like being monitored by feds
> guess who the equivalent is to her

Given that by the time she's 18, the feds will be monitoring everything she does anyways, perhaps it's a good idea to get her used to the idea of Big Brother Watching Her now, before she has to. Better she learn how to "act normal" in front of the folks than in front of the Fed.

(And on the flip side - if she's bound and determined to work her way around the logger, and finds an effective way to do so... more power to her.)

My choice of logging tool: Ethernet sniffer, hooked up to OpenBSD box. OpenBSD box is hooked up to an old dot-matrix printer. Every 15 minutes, a URL is printed in hardcopy, at random. The complete log is stored on the hard drive. The sniffer also logs GROUP and ARTICLE commands on port 119, SMTP headers, etc. but to save on diskspace, drops inbound data on the floor. Basically, your own private Carnivore.

<MODE=BOFH>
...and the logfile is encrypted with Dad's public key. Dad doesn't have to read the log entries to know if the OpenBSD box has been compromised and the logs have been tampered with. All Dad has to do is fail to be able to decrypt the logs with his private key.
</MODE>

Duh (4)

pnatural (59329) | more than 13 years ago | (#156480)

you said only an awareness of what she surfs.

as a parent of two, let me fill you in on a little secret: the only way you're going to know what your kids are up to is to spend time with them. in other words, get off your lazy ass and spend time with them. especially if you only have her 2 days a week. sheesh.

Monitoring - Graphics Display TAP (1)

oldzoot (60984) | more than 13 years ago | (#156484)

I keep a tail-f of squids log running in a window of the house router system. That helps a little bit. Having the main kid computers in the living room is also good - 2 systems side by side help the kids watch each other - as well as help each other.

I do recall mention of an interesting hack on Slasdot. I believe it was running at networld/Interop or perhaps a linux world conference. Basically, it grabbed jpegs and gifs off the ethernet which were floating by as part of other peoples surfing and displayed them on a large display. I would love to run this at home, it would be very obvious if kids got into certain types of sites of concern. Does anyone recall this tidbit and have refrences ???

Use a proxy? (1)

CormacJ (64984) | more than 13 years ago | (#156489)

One way is to have her browse via a proxy server (eg squid). This would allow you to keep aware of where she surfs. This only tracks web sites though.

I'm sorry, but.. (5)

technos (73414) | more than 13 years ago | (#156495)

How exactly would you explain www.goatse.cx to your eleven year old daughter? I don't have kids, but the thought of having to try and explain that phenomena to another *adult* scares me.

"Family Area" Caveat: (3)

rkent (73434) | more than 13 years ago | (#156496)

Put the family computer in a family room.

Okay, but that doesn't solve everything. Granted, I grew up with BBS's instead of the big bad internet, but file swapping was not unheard of.

The computer was (wisely) kept in the family dining room, and not my bedroom or other "private" place. But I'm sure that... eh... had I wanted to swap some pr0n, I probably could've waited until after my parents went to bed and done all the bad stuff I wanted. Hypothetically, I mean.

So, um, what was that thing about squid again?

---

Proxy server (1)

Webmoth (75878) | more than 13 years ago | (#156500)

A software solution on the PC or Mac the kid is using isn't really ideal, because even with password protection, the kid could still defeat your ability to see where she's been.

Perhaps some kind of proxy server that logs the websites she's been to might be the way to go.

Ask someone else for links :-)

~J

Monitor her *and* your usage (5)

Matt_Bennett (79107) | more than 13 years ago | (#156504)

Monitor all the traffic with a proxy server- including your own surfing, and go over the logs together. The best way you can teach is to set a good example.

Many kids will accidentally go to someplace like whitehouse.com and get the suprise of their life- as long as they understand that is something they should not be looking at- that should be fine, lesson learned, and they know not to go there again. Eventually the kid will see something you find morally troubling- and so will you. Take the time to explain what you think is wrong about things like that. The child needs to know why she shouldn't be browsing something, more than just "bad place- stay away!"

Re:why exactly? (1)

andkaha (79865) | more than 13 years ago | (#156505)

Why would "birth control information sites" be inappropriate?

Have you ever been at http://www.durex.com/? What exactly is inappropriate with that site?

Here in New Zealand, they're currently debating the shortage of people that may sterilise women (because there's currently a lot of low-income women getting a lot of kids). I haven't heard the word "condom" being mentioned once in the debate. Condoms even protect against AIDS; it's the only thing that does (apart from not having sex).

Wait! I'm from Sweden and I'm in an old British colony, why should I be surprised?!

Never mind, some people never learn.

Re:Check out Spector (1)

andkaha (79865) | more than 13 years ago | (#156506)

If I or my partner installed loggers and other kinds of baby-sitter software on the computers at home and my kids didn't detect and disable them, I wouldn't let them use the computers at all.

Selective Log (2)

brunes69 (86786) | more than 13 years ago | (#156511)

Use a squid proxy or some toher mean to log the address and title of only sites that contain certain keywords. Then a quick scan of the logfiles at your leisure can see if she's been abusing her privlidges, without maintaining a privacy-endagering log of every site she visits.

Re:I'm sorry, but.. (5)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 13 years ago | (#156512)

"What, that? That's just some asshole..."

Re:Good words to search for (1)

pbur (88030) | more than 13 years ago | (#156513)

I have to say that as a George Carlin fan, I am shocked that you first attribute this to Blink 182, Carlin has been saying that list of words since the 70's. I hope it is just because you didn't know of him in the first place.....

Its a Good Thing Most /.'ers Dont Have Kids (5)

quakeaddict (94195) | more than 13 years ago | (#156522)

To say that a child at the age of 11 has a right to view everything on the internet as a statement against censorship is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I mean there are way worse things to worry about than whether or not you are censoring stuff off of the internet. I mean...why not just allow your daughter to go to an X-rated movie at the age of 11...I mean if you didn't allow it you would be censoring her right? Right?!

Here's an idea - don't try to make the net like TV (2)

stu72 (96650) | more than 13 years ago | (#156523)

i.e. don't make the net her babysitter. If she's going to surf the net, surf it with her.

Riff on Salon (1)

rosewood (99925) | more than 13 years ago | (#156532)

Actually I have never seen an article from Salon as a must read ... they really beat the same dead horse over and over again. See: "Bushed" (I read it cause it just makes me mad while I take a crap - ty AvantGo)

PenguinFeet.org (1)

SwellJoe (100612) | more than 13 years ago | (#156533)

This question came a little too soon, but I can't pass up the chance to enlist some volunteers...

We (Swell Technology and a few brave volunteers) are starting a community generated and edited block list project called Penguin Feet which will be located at www.penguinfeet.org [penguinfeet.org] . The system will be free, easy to use, and based on GPLed tools, and the list will be publicly accessible at all times--and more importantly the project will be entirely accountable to the community that develops it. No more blocking Time magazine for running an anti-censorship article, no more blocking PeaceFire, no more blocking Amnesty International, or NOW. It will be about blocking those sites that are judged by a number of volunteer and paid editors to be inappropriate for young children. The goal is to provide a free content control system that is as effective as any proprietary system.

Anyone wanting to help out by being a contributor (search for porn and hate sites and submit them), and editor (look at the found porn and hate speech), a coder (database and perl knowledge needed), an integrator (SquidGuard+Squid is first, if you've got ideas for doing this on any other proxy contact me), or a skeptic (complain about sites that are blocked that shouldn't be) should contact us at penguinfeet@swelltech.com.

Anyway...We're about a month or two away from first launch (gotta get the database box colocated on a fat pipe for running the porn sniffin' robot, among other things). I hope folks find it to be a nice alternative to the fascist tendencies of the proprietary blocking systems.

is censorship necessary? (2)

egomaniac (105476) | more than 13 years ago | (#156538)

First things first -- I ran a BBS starting at the age of twelve. It had many, many thousands of adult pictures on it. I had my first 'net access when I was thirteen; this was before the web, but there was still plenty of pr0n to be found.

Now, I saw a whole bunch of stuff that probably should have warped my fragile little mind, and I was way too young for most of it. But despite that I've developed into a reasonably normal adult; I'm happily married, I have a healthy attitude towards women and sex -- I'm unscarred by the early porn exposure.

I've thought about this issue, of what to do when I have kids and need to worry about this sort of thing. I'm leaning towards the side of (once they reach twelve or so) giving them unrestricted net access and trusting them to be every bit as immature as I was, but learn a lot about life in the process.

Sounds weird, I know -- allowing my kids to be exposed to the evils of the net!! Well, everybody I know who didn't see pr0n on the net saw their older sibling's porno tapes (or whatever) at aoubt the same age I was, and I'm not convinced that shielding them from pornography really protects them in any way.

The basic question I asked myself is: how many people do I know that weren't exposed to pr0n and other evils at a young age? Well, nobody that I've asked. I first saw hardcore porn at about the age of ten, my wife was eleven or twelve, and all of my friends were similarly young.

And of those people, how many turned out the worse for it? Tough to tell, I know, because we all saw it, but I certainly don't feel screwed up by the experience. Maybe it's just part of growing up.

I know, I know, there are pedophiles and all sorts of other nasties out there -- true enough, but they're not all on the net. Casual conversation with a child will easily reveal any suspicious online "friendships", and I'm not convinced they're in any more danger online than off.

I'm certainly not saying what you should or should not do with your stepdaughter, but give some serious thought to how many people you know who had unfiltered net access at that age who grew up the worse for it.

The Salon Article (2)

StevenMaurer (115071) | more than 13 years ago | (#156552)

As a parent of an almost 11 year old, I also read The Morality Police, and while it did say some things I agreed with, the author had some very wierd views of the law.

Specifically, the MPAA ratings system is not an "unconstitutional restriction of free speech", it is free speech - in the form of an economically enforced blacklist. X-rated theaters aren't illegal, it's just that Walt Disney and all other MPAA members won't license their films to be shown at one. This is nearly identical to the approach of anti-spam lists, including the RTBL.

So far as raising your daughter is concerned, repeat after me: the net is no different than any other medium.

You need to stay involved in your daughters life no matter what her interests are, and while your opinions won't be absolutely followed all the time like it was when she was 5, they are still the extremely important. Try not to be judgemental, but also be clear to point out the consequences that can occur from bad choices on her part.

Despite media hype about the internet, the #1 killer of teenagers - that just about dwarfs all others - is drunk driving. Telling her not to get in a car with a drunk boy is more likely to keep her out of harms way than any other advice I could give you.

Re:I'm sorry, butt.. (2)

rjamestaylor (117847) | more than 13 years ago | (#156553)

Fantastic. Now for all eternity (or as long as Slashdot archives remain on the 'net) there will be a direct link to your daughter's page in the midst of a goatse.cx discussion. Imagine the pride she will have when her friends point out that her father linked her site with the Goatse.cx man.

I think I'm tired of the Internet now.
--

Re:hey i have an idea (1)

turbodog42 (122173) | more than 13 years ago | (#156558)

Great idea, except that children aren't adults. An almost 11 year old in no way shape or form has the mental development to handle the things she could get into.

Of course she would resent constant over-the-shoulder badgering, but whether they like/know it or not, children that age still need significant parental supervision and guidance.

Finding information for "Book Reports" online. (2)

pi_rules (123171) | more than 13 years ago | (#156561)

When you're looking for something, use the Google search engine. (Among its other benefits, it's the most kid-friendly.) Always start your search with at least three words. Any fewer, and you're probably just wasting your time. Parents can help you learn how to pick three good words.

And when using the Google search engine if you are looking for information about the book "Little Women" you should also include the author's name with your search.

squid (3)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 13 years ago | (#156575)

Show her the logfiles from squid and explain how you can keep track of every single site she visits.

Re:Its a Good Thing Most /.'ers Dont Have Kids (2)

fleener (140714) | more than 13 years ago | (#156577)

Yup. The Internet is an adult medium, as is television and most movies these days. Either you trust your child to understand all adult content, or you take parental responsibility by monitoring, restricting, educating, leading by example, etc.

Re:Its a Good Thing Most /.'ers Dont Have Kids (2)

fleener (140714) | more than 13 years ago | (#156578)

You've obviously never had a pregnant teen, a teen with HIV or other STD, a teen in juvenile hall (jail), etc.

The issue is that children are now exposed to adult behavior at earlier and earlier ages, before their minds fully understand the scope and impact of their behavior. _THAT_ is well established in psychological research.

Re:Its a Good Thing Most /.'ers Dont Have Kids (1)

mheckaman (149644) | more than 13 years ago | (#156585)

Well, as a recently ex-teen, I've seen friends of mine end up in both of those situations before. So why haven't more of the people I've known (including myself) ended up that way? Quite simple, our families were very open about sex. My parents never lectured me that "sex is bad, don't do it!" -- they taught me from a young age the consequences of those actions, and how to do it safely. This is the key to the whole thing. I can say with reasonable certainty that the kids ending up pregnant and sick are the ones who were never taught about sex in an appropriate manner.

Young teens are NOT incapable of understanding the consequences and acting responsibly. It is simply a matter of trust within the family. I knew growing up that I could always talk to my family about sex, it was never a taboo subject with us. I firmly believe that is what makes all the difference, and when I have children, that is how I'll handle it.

Matt

Re:Its a Good Thing Most /.'ers Dont Have Kids (2)

quickquack (152245) | more than 13 years ago | (#156590)

Seriously. This sort of comment really annoys me.

You probably think that porn, violence, sex, etc in movies and on the Internet will harm your kid. Prove that.

Violence: Recently posted on Salon.com was this little tidbit:
> I was on a media panel a couple of weeks ago, and one of the
> panelists was a representative of the American Medical
> Association. A couple of months ago, the AMA joined with the
> American Psychological Association and signed on to this very
> dubious statement that claimed that the link between media
> violence and harm to minors had been proven.
>
> This panelist was very frank: He said, "We signed on to that
> statement as a political decision. There were things we needed
> from Senator Brownback, and from Senator Lieberman, and this
> seemed like a reasonable trade-off."

Sex & Porn: So, how come the most natural thing, the reason we all live today, is now "bad" for "younger" people (of course, once you're 18, *poof* you're mature enough to do anything 'cept drink). Porn does not devalue or demoralize women; that has been proven. However, that doesn't stop legislators and people like you from spreading false information.
------------

Easy. (2)

AntiNorm (155641) | more than 13 years ago | (#156593)

what's the best solution for me (as a part-time parent) to keep an eye on her surfing?

The best solution for you to keep an eye on her surfing...is to keep an eye on her surfing.

Try to trust her, don't get too intrusive, but at the same time be aware of where she is going online.

---
DOOR!!

Supervision of internet access in two easy steps (2)

zer0tude (169627) | more than 13 years ago | (#156599)

Step 1:
The best way to control your step-daughter's web browsing is to talk to her about it. 11-year olds should understand that there are some websites they are not allowed to visit, just as they should understand that there are certain television shows they are not allowed to watch.

Step 2:
Put the computer in living room or some other high-traffic location and actually keep an eye on her. If she knows the rules and knows that you will enforce them, you should be all set.

In short, don't use technology as a substitute for parenting.


--
"You've gotta be a spirit...Don't be no ghost."

Re:Duh (2)

ongdesign (170749) | more than 13 years ago | (#156600)

As a guardian of a 12-year old who surfs a LOT, part of the point (for her) is the sense of freedom and independence that goes with it. While sometimes she and I surf Web sites together, and research topics online, much of the time she likes to surf alone, looking at and posting on Weblogs, and checking out topics she doesn't particularly want to share.

And, problematically, many of the sites she's most interested aren't on the whitelists approved by Apple or whomever. They're small, independent sites (which I enormously prefer to her spending time on Disney's site, or Nickelodeon's mind-numbing site). And very often, she does accidentally or experimentally hit a link or banner that opens page after page of lurid, ugly porn, (that "escape tunnel" phenomenon). Just because a child is curious about "what's out there" and maybe even clicks a naughty sounding hyperlink doesn't mean they should be bombarded with closeups of anal sex.

The point is that it's a valid concern, with no really simple answers. Discussing what she's seen helps, but I'd much prefer a way to get around the whole problem.

there should be... (1)

IamLarryboy (176442) | more than 13 years ago | (#156603)

There should be software that basically monitors what comes through the modem and saves it to the hard drive. The content could be password protected so a child cant delete it. The parent could then enter the password and have the program take the parent on a "walk in the steps (umm surfs) of the child". Basically the program would be like a replay of what the child saw. If such software exists let me know if not then lets program it.

Re:Check out Spector (5)

duffbeer703 (177751) | more than 13 years ago | (#156608)

The fact that you need to have such a degree of control over your children is a chilling and horrible thought.

Have you ever considered the consequences of seeking complete control of another humam being? A parent's role should be that of a shepard, not a guard dog. If you teach your child to think for himself (or herself) and use common sense, you'll end up with a free-thinking and mature young man or woman.

A controlling, domineering parent will result in nothing but a angry and rebellious child or someone incapable of dealing with life and society in general.

If you feel that you need to surreptitiously spy on your child, I pity you.

Cache (1)

gatorlb (178564) | more than 13 years ago | (#156609)

In windoze, you can browse through the cached files in the "temporary internet files" folder. Just clear the cache before she comes to visit. She probably wont think to delete these files after she logs off. When she leaves you will have a pretty good idea what she was looking at just by looking through the web cache.

What if she reads this? (1)

Tigris666 (197729) | more than 13 years ago | (#156617)

I dont know how many 11 year olds come to /. but if it's in your bookmarks or something she may well read what you are trying to plan for her!

This would annoy the hell outta if i was a kid and my parents wanted to "monitor" my net access, i'd be pretty pissed...

so if you have thought at all about "blocking" certain sites, like goatse, then you better block /. aswell if you wanna stay in the goodbooks...

Tigris ../
--
unzip; strip; touch; grep; mount; fsck; yes; more; fsck; unmount; make clean; sleep

Re:I'm sorry, but.. (2)

LionKimbro (200000) | more than 13 years ago | (#156622)

I imagine it would go something like this:

"Sakura, [shada.org] I have no idea what that thing is. I think it's some guys anus, but it's not one like I've ever seen before... Pretty nasty looking, if you ask me, though. Try not to get like that, if you can avoid it."

Check out Spector (3)

unformed (225214) | more than 13 years ago | (#156637)

Spector [spectorsoft.com] records Screenshots, ALL POP3 and AOL email, ALL chat conversations in AIM, ICQ, MSN, and Yahoo! messengers, and additionally logs all keystrokes, along with a few other features. Furthermore, it is virtually undetectable.

Their older version (2.2) was great. But in some time, they'll be releasing v3.0 which is truly kickass (Take this from someone who is beta-testing it now)

Highly recommend for parents. Note: This doesn't block anything, but rather it LOGS everything.

The parent can then decide what's inappropriate.

Education is best (1)

Johnny Starrock (227040) | more than 13 years ago | (#156639)

Jamie's points are worthwhile. Educate your child as to what's appropriate and what's not. Let them know the internet is a lot like the real world is many ways.

One more thing... (5)

wrinkledshirt (228541) | more than 13 years ago | (#156640)

Make sure she doesn't browse at -1. That alone will keep her clear of much racist humour, incorrect claims to "Frist Prost", and that unfortunate fellow whom we all wish would stop bending over.

Surfing protection (2)

basking2 (233941) | more than 13 years ago | (#156645)

I really liked the comment about leaving the computer in the family room, provided parents are there when the kid surfs! It in no intrusive, but will keep the child with in bounds.
Be sure to talk with your child about sites you like, or their favortie sites, or good chats they have had! Be a part of their lives in this way!
There are those who will tell you that your child should be set loose and un-fettered. Do not fall for this! Study after study shows that children must be given boundaries with love by adults if they are to grow up well. Your presence in net-surfing will probably be enough, and will hopefully start good habits that will follow your child into their more independant years when you have to let them go. :)
More personally, I am THRILLED to see a parent looking to raise their child instead of letting society raise them!!! Thanks!!!
Sam
--
"The Son of God became a man to enable man to become sons of God."

Use a Sniffer (2)

xiexie (237547) | more than 13 years ago | (#156649)

Download ethereal from www.ethereal.com [ethereal.com] And if she figures out how to encrypt her traffic so that you can't sniff the packets, then be proud! You have a smart one!

Re:pfft (1)

sideshow-voxx (242126) | more than 13 years ago | (#156651)

Hehehe hold that thought - I'll do a web search on "porn" sometime when I am not at work! :)

Cache (2)

sideshow-voxx (242126) | more than 13 years ago | (#156652)

Web browsers all have a cache somewhere, for storing recently downloaded info in order to not have to download it again. All you need to do is figure out where the browser cache is on your computer and you will be able to see everything that has been downloaded - and when - and where from. Of course, a browser cache can be deleted (and your average 11-year-old is likely to be able to do this), so if you see an empty cache, then this might also be cause for concern.

Jamie's comments are all good too.

Re:pfft (2)

sideshow-voxx (242126) | more than 13 years ago | (#156653)

The fact that you "Spent your childhood downloading porn" illuatrates the danger of it - it is ADDICTIVE and has been shown to cause relationship problems later in life. If you want your kid to grow up with a healthy attitude to sex and their fellow human beings, you need to keep up with what they are reading and looking at.

Never (1)

TheDarkRogue (245521) | more than 13 years ago | (#156656)

I would first like to say that this may come off a bit strong, but i have had sad personal experiences with family members and internet to real life situations that did not end for the best. I Personally think that you should at first run the internet in your house like some sort of prison camp. You Whitelist the sites, if your kid wants to go to it, you see it first. YOu Limit anything Multiuser, Chat, online Gaming, etc, etc. And anything that might be even SLIGHTLY wrong you kill immidiatly. You make damn good sure that you know everything they do. Key Loggers and Higher end Packetsniffer type deals, and maybe even 2 child protection things (Like Cyber Patrol AND NetSitter both on at once). If one misses something the other should pick it up. You from there gain trust in your child and SLOWLY open up. Don't stop for a minute spying on them and knowing their every move, but allow them to do more things without also holding your hand. When they are gone, check your logs/reports/whatever and if even one thing seems wrong you confront immidiatly. I would still even say ban chat and Multiplayer games, less you can add limits to them. I Have seen very disturbing things happen in In-Game chat in FPSes. Char rooms are no better. don't trust your child online for one minute, no matter how well you think of them on it. Eventually, you will know that it is safe for them, and that they understand the rules. It might take a LONG time, but it is worth it. Never stop spying though, they might be doing something wrong and not know it.

Key Capture Program (2)

TooLazyToLogon (248807) | more than 13 years ago | (#156658)

I had an uncommunitive 12 year old. I was worried so I installed a key capture progam on the Mac and kept it in the family room. This also allowed me to get passwords to Webmail sites like hotmail.com So I could monitor that too. Fortunately I had nothing to worry about. I ended up with a lot of stuff I couldn't talk about. In the long run it wasn't worth it. If I could do it over I would just keep the computer in the family room and keep hammering away at that communication.

Watch (1)

UberLame (249268) | more than 13 years ago | (#156659)

Dude, just watch where she goes online. I mean, really watch, like being in the room, or at least popping your head in frequently.

That implies more trust than any other method does. At least you trust her enough to be honest with her this way.

The easiest and cheapest way... (2)

mikethegeek (257172) | more than 13 years ago | (#156667)

Since most sites deposit cookies on your PC (including most any pr0n site) because of ads, a simple method would be to set her up:

1. A "user profile" or account on a `Doze 9X or NT/2000 machine. You can then look in your cookies directory where they are identified by USER. (this directory is usually under \windows\cookies if memory serves)

2. If using a Linux/Unix box, do the same thing. Clear your cookies. Mozilla will show you the cookies accepted under edit>preferences>Privacy and Security>Cookies.

yowza 2.0! (1)

FigBugDeux (257259) | more than 13 years ago | (#156668)

Put the com-pu-ter in the living/family room and run a really low res on a big monitor... the fear of being watched should keep her from going to goatse.

:)

Re:Good words to search for (1)

Seeka (258435) | more than 13 years ago | (#156669)

When George Carlin originally ran his "Seven Dirty Words" skit, I believe it was only the first 7. "Fart", "Turd" and "Twat" are all .. Well, not particularly bad words.

Seeka

Re:Never (1)

Seeka (258435) | more than 13 years ago | (#156670)

When I was 11, I knew how to detect and delete all these security mechanisms, and more. We're talking about a kid here. I know that my parents tried to passively control me (thank god they didn't put some program on my computer, I'd be a lot worse right now), and I hated them for it. I came out better in the end by being exposed to everything that's bad, and sometimes interesting. Porn is sometimes harmful, but not always. In fact, now that I've gotten over the "porn craze" (Friends of mine were a lot more into than I was, I'd frequently get asked if the computer whiz knew any good porn sites), I prefer more artistic oriented photographs and drawings.

You can't try to limit someone's ability to think. Perhaps you think you're doing them a favor by extending their childhood just a bit longer, but this reminds me of trying to delay pregnancy for stupid reasons. This whole "Military Camp" ideal really needs to stop. Eventually, everybody can defeat a security mechanism put in place to stop them. I hacked into my school's novell recently and found a way to easily and effectively view what I felt I wanted to view.

My question for all of you is.. What exactly are you protecting these kids from? Hate, Violence, Pornography? Sex? You can't do it. It just isn't possible. The more you try to keep someone away from something, the bigger their motivation becomes. Like when your parents wouldn't let you watch killing scenes on TV.. What's the first thing you did when they left the house? Exactly.

Seeka

Re:The Salon Article (1)

Seeka (258435) | more than 13 years ago | (#156671)

Specifically, the MPAA ratings system is not an "unconstitutional restriction of free speech", it is free speech - in the form of an economically enforced blacklist.

Haha, explain to me how you justify that? Speech is being intercepted, checked for "vulgarity", and if there is "vulgarity" in it, it is stopped. That's censorship, and censorship does not equal free speech. I still don't understand how economics figure into this whole thing, but to each his own.

Seeka

Re:History! (1)

Seeka (258435) | more than 13 years ago | (#156672)

I don't know where you've been, but most households have Internet Explorer installed. In IE, you can arbitrarily delete history. One record at a time. That's even worse than the "Clear-all"'s of the past generation. Duh.

Seeka

History! (2)

hyrdra (260687) | more than 13 years ago | (#156675)

What's wrong with looking at her browsing history? You don't need a 3rd party program to do that...

Don't censor, educate. (3)

refactored (260886) | more than 13 years ago | (#156676)

Give them unfettered access to the 'net. Then watch and guide. If they spend time on sex sites, guide them to sex worker rights sites. If they get involved in IRC, explain the hazards and guide. Never abdicate your parental responsibility to software.

Make sure they are aware of choices, that some do allow and some don't. Make sure they don't violate the choices of their friends parents. Guide them into seeing both points of view.

Parenting isn't easy. Its undoubtably the most difficult job on the planet. Be aware that child minds are incredibly good meme hosts. Seed with lots of interlocking high value memes. Cultivate your child's meme ecology rather than censor it into barreness.

You cannot weed a meme out of a childs mind, and you cannot keep it out forever. Your only hope is to seed it with the competing memes.

Re:Monitoring - Graphics Display TAP (1)

geomcbay (263540) | more than 13 years ago | (#156677)

I bet if you just asked your son for his pr0n links he would give you a bookmark file.

No need to snoop on the poor bastard and steal his bits off the network for your own pleasure.

There's a great logging tool for Macs! (2)

geomcbay (263540) | more than 13 years ago | (#156678)

There's a really good HTTP traffic logging tool for Macs. It's called MacWebWatch [rotten.com] (click link to go to download page).

Its just what you're looking for, it allows you to view a list of the URLs that have been viewed without blocking access to most of the net.

squid proxy (1)

drfreak (303147) | more than 13 years ago | (#156683)

Contrary to what others said regarding squid, it can proxy more than just web stuff. And the logs will show everything. Something like calamaris is awesome for this.

Also, as the author of calamaris points out, once you read a few log files you realise that most people (including kids) aren't really doing anything that terrible. I ran reports with it once or twice, and got quite bored.

Re:pfft (1)

SpeelingChekka (314128) | more than 13 years ago | (#156690)

it is ADDICTIVE and has been shown to cause relationship problems later in life

Could you perhaps be so kind as to point us to the studies showing that porn causes relationship problems later in life? (scientific ones .. a link to an article on "www.cc.org" (christian coalition) doesn't count)

Re:Bad Idea (1)

SpeelingChekka (314128) | more than 13 years ago | (#156691)

".. the worlds biggest porn shop with people who regularly abduct children and plenty of other nasty things?" ... "Of course not... the internet is the same thing"

Oh! For a moment I thought you were talking about the Internet

Just ask them (3)

BIGJIMSLATE (314762) | more than 13 years ago | (#156706)

Just ask them about it:

Pa: "Hey BOY?!"

John-Boy: "Yeah Pa?"

Pa: "You havn't been going to any of that gay porno on that internet, have ya'?"

John-Boy: "No Pa, I'm only visiting Slashdot."

Pa: "Slashdot? That sounds like gay porno to me"

John-Boy: "No, see pa? Its a place where people have (semi-)intelligent discussions relating to technology, the news, and the law, and how it affects all of us in today's times."

Pa: "Hm...well, I guess that's not so bad. What's that there link that some pussy coward put?"

John-Boy: "Er...that's nothing."

Pa: "Click it!"

John-Boy: "No!"

Pa: "I knew it, this is just another gay porno site!!!"

John-Boy: "No pa! It's not! I swear!"

*Pa takes the mouse and discovers what "goatse" means, and John-boy is whipped for the rest his life*

Er....what was the point of this again? Oh yeah, just ask the freaking kids. Other than that, leave them alone, and let them discover the good and the bad the way the rest of us did. Those of us who held a firecracker in our hands as it blew never did it again, and any boy who ends up in a private chat with "SeXyOlDgUy69" deserves what he's going to get. I guarantee he'll never do it again. :p

hey i have an idea (1)

waspleg (316038) | more than 13 years ago | (#156708)

how about treating your children like responsible adults so they grow up to become them..

why dont you leave her alone and if she has questions she'll come to you

monitoring harbors resentment

i bet you don't like being monitored by feds

guess who the equivalent is to her

Re:pfft (1)

waspleg (316038) | more than 13 years ago | (#156709)

really that's interesting, as i am presently in (nearly 2 years) and only seek out long term relationships

the fact of the matter is that they will emulate your behavior most likely.. my parents have been married for 25 years, my dad has a playboy collection that pre-dates this and covers everything to the present, how bout yours

in fact the only friends i have who have fucked up relationships are the ones who went to catholic schools or had otherwise fucked up home lives (dad cheated on mom, etc.. i find children of divorcees are especially suspectible to this as they fidn it hard to trust anyone)

so your lil morality rant is lost on me

Re:Its a Good Thing Most /.'ers Dont Have Kids (1)

waspleg (316038) | more than 13 years ago | (#156710)

it should be your job as a parent to do that, not the governments

making something illegal doesn't make it enforceable

you better believe i had X rated movies as an 11 year old

Already been done (1)

why-is-it (318134) | more than 13 years ago | (#156712)

it's called a firewall and logs every outbound request (source address, destination address, protocol, etc. etc.)

As an added bonus, it protects your network from all the script kiddies out there :-)

What about for /. (1)

why-is-it (318134) | more than 13 years ago | (#156713)

What can *I* use so that I won't get fooled into following any links to goatse that the trolls like to hide in seemingly innocuous posts? Is there a goat filter?

Re:Use a Sniffer (1)

why-is-it (318134) | more than 13 years ago | (#156714)

So exactly how much disk space would this guy need? Packet sniffers can consume lots of disk. Packet sniffers are not the appropriate tool for the job. A decent proxy/firewall would work much better.

Re:Its a Good Thing Most /.'ers Dont Have Kids (1)

why-is-it (318134) | more than 13 years ago | (#156715)

"you better believe i had X rated movies as an 11 year old" This could explain a lot actually. At what age did the paranoia set in?

why exactly? (2)

stinkor (442581) | more than 13 years ago | (#156737)

Are you sure you want to see what she's surfing? What were you planning to do if you find she's been surfing an "inappropriate" site? Are you willing to accept that sex and birth control information sites are likely to be hit in the coming years? I suggest not monitoring her access for precisely this reason - she needs access to the info as she becomes an adult, but fathers can rarely deal with that fact that their daughters will have sex sooner or later.

It's easy to explain to your kids (2)

6EQUJ5 (446008) | more than 13 years ago | (#156742)

I don't have kids either, but if I did I'm sure I could explain it to them with what all kids understand - a little bit of humor. Just tell them with a smile that there are some sick, sick people in the world. If they don't get it right away, they'll eventually see that "nasty porn" at their friends house, and probably go "Eeeeeeewwww!!"

To put it in perspective - explaining deviant sex is PEANUTS compared to explaining other things - like why people kill, how wars happen, and everything else you see on the nightly news.

Hmm, Interesting (1)

DanCclark..com (448800) | more than 13 years ago | (#156744)

They are your kids, why not monitor them as you see fit.
Until they move out, I say treat them like Nazi slaves (internet wise)
No ?

Teach them what the net really is. (1)

LucianSK (450473) | more than 13 years ago | (#156747)

Let your kids know the internet is NOT a game. When you talk about the internet, treat it as seriously as you do the telephone and dont compare it to something fake like TV. The Internet is real, if you wouldnt give your real name and address to some random caller who calls and asks for it on the Phone, you dont do this over the Internet. Teach your kids how people can trace someone over the internet, and tell them to never meet anyone from the internet.

Re:PenguinFeet.org (1)

NickFusion (456530) | more than 13 years ago | (#156759)

So the censor isn't them, it's us.

Well say, that is better.

You have been assilmilated.

No ethics apply (1)

IceKeene (457346) | more than 13 years ago | (#156760)

It is a very big mistake to treat immature children (under age 18) like adults. They do not have the judgement to choose, though they are developing it. Thus there is no issue of ethics in regards to controlling your children's internet access. As an analogy, if you suspect your child is taking drugs, you should throughly search their room. There is not an issue of privacy in this case. Parents should not 'abdicate the throne' as is often encouraged in our liberal society.

Excuse me? (2)

Anomolous Cow Herd (457746) | more than 13 years ago | (#156762)

Most of the posters here aren't even likely to find a mate (of the opposite sex, anyway), much less reproduce. What in the world posessed you to post a call for parental advice here? All you will get are the unqualified answers of people talking out their ass.

Actually, on second thought, good job on maintaining the status quo.

Then you gotta deal with abused trust... (5)

Amazing Quantum Man (458715) | more than 13 years ago | (#156765)

I laid out the ground rules with my 10 year old daughter. The usual, pretty much Jamie's list above.

Then one day I get an email from some site saying that they couldn't comply with *my* request to authorize my daughters account for something or other unless via snailmail.

She'd forged an email from me (not hard... it's a family PC running 'doze) and tried to say "I forgot my password. Please authorize....". Luckily the site required snailmail confirmation in that situation.

Needless to say, there was a discussion about responsibility and lying... I let her know that it would be some time before I could trust her fully online again, and oh, yes... she was grounded from the computer for a week, and after that, she was not allowed online for a month without me or my wife literally looking over her shoulder...

Still better than filtering...


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