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Greek Government Abruptly Shuts Down State Broadcaster

Soulskill posted about 10 months ago | from the going-dark dept.

Censorship 230

An anonymous reader writes "The Greek government shut down broadcasting of all TV and radio channels operated by the state-owned broadcaster ERT at midnight local time, with police ejecting journalists and other employees occupying the building. The above link is a prominent Greek economics professor's (and Valve's in-house economist) analysis of the political motivations for the move."

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230 comments

Full story at, err, 11? (2, Interesting)

atom1c (2868995) | about 10 months ago | (#43981939)

I wonder if that means lower taxes...

Re:Full story at, err, 11? (5, Funny)

noh8rz10 (2716597) | about 10 months ago | (#43982021)

meanwhile, in USA, I have 4 channels that are showing the Kardashians at this very moment.

Re:Full story at, err, 11? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982779)

We have those same 4 channels in Greece too. It's just that we lost the one that didn't show them.

Re:Full story at, err, 11? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43983015)

and that is why the Kardashians never get an invite to Bilderberg

Re:Full story at, err, 11? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982069)

Yes, because when you shrink your economy, everybody pays less taxes.

Re:Full story at, err, 11? (0, Troll)

ScentCone (795499) | about 10 months ago | (#43982179)

Yes, because when you shrink your economy, everybody pays less taxes.

No, a lot of the people already paying little or no income tax (like roughly half of the people in the US) will continue to pay little or no income taxes, while the minority of the people who pay essentially all of the taxes are told to pay even more, and hated for being the people who do so.

Re:Full story at, err, 11? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982279)

Maybe those evil tax evaders could afford to pay some taxes if those poor, abhorred multi-billionaires would pay a decent wage to the people who do all the work for their companies instead of siphoning it all off into offshore accounts.

Re: Full story at, err, 11? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982523)

Tax evasion or redirection happens at the highest levels. Of course that is one reason the US taxes citizens on ALL their money, not just "American" money. In the EU they can play the international bank game and not even swipe their passports.

You would have a similar problem on the USA if the Federal Government didn't step in with large subsidies for basic infrastructure. Just last week we were talking about an Oregon county that was so poor they couldn't hire police.

Re:Full story at, err, 11? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982751)

Shut the fuck up idiot. Multi-billionaires don't pay taxes dumb ass. Middle class working folk pay almost all the tax. You are probably paying more percentage wise than just about everyone else.

But you keep pushing that liberal agenda. Because it is the "right thing to do". "It is for the good of the country". Or whatever lies you tell yourself.

Re:Full story at, err, 11? (0)

ScentCone (795499) | about 10 months ago | (#43983619)

Middle class working folk pay almost all the tax.

This isn't even close to correct.

The top 10% of earners pay over 70% of the income taxes.

The lower-earning entire HALF of the country pays just over 2%.

The top 25% percent pay close to 90% of the taxes. Are you saying that the middle class is actually just a few percent of the country?

Re:Full story at, err, 11? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982299)

When that minority controls the majority of the resources, mostly by hook and crook, the get to pay the majority of the taxes and their full share of resentment at the impact their greedy hoarding has on the majority that run the Red Queen's racetrack just trying to stay in place. The "tax payers" will just have to drown their sorrows in champagne and caviar.

Re:Full story at, err, 11? (1)

crutchy (1949900) | about 10 months ago | (#43982663)

the minority you appear to berate aren't the majority of tax payers

Re:Full story at, err, 11? (1)

ScentCone (795499) | about 10 months ago | (#43983661)

the minority you appear to berate aren't the majority of tax payers

What? I'm not berating the minority of people who pay most of the income taxes. I'm simply pointing out that it's a minority of people who do pay the vast majority of the income taxes.

Re:Full story at, err, 11? (5, Interesting)

mcgrew (92797) | about 10 months ago | (#43983483)

I don't know why you were modded "troll" but I'd have modded "overrated" because the comment is completely inaccurate. The poor pay few or no income taxes, but a very high percentage of their meager income on gasoline taxes, tobacco taxes, alcohol taxes, and other federal excise taxes. The middle class is taxed at twice the rate of someone whose income is from gambling on the stock market. Plus, the more you earn the more loopholes you have.

This [rollingstone.com] is why they're despised. You think it was the poor and middle class who destroyed the economy?

Re:Full story at, err, 11? (0)

ScentCone (795499) | about 10 months ago | (#43983647)

The middle class is taxed at twice the rate of someone whose income is from gambling on the stock market.

And they're gambling with money that has already been taxed at least once, and they have no tax recourse if they lose money on bad gambles. The idea is to get people to put money to work growing companies and the jobs and economic activity that comes with that .. which in turn generates way more tax revenue across the spectrum (locally, federally, etc).

Re:Full story at, err, 11? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43983231)

The Colonels are back?

What am I supposed to think!!!??? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43981957)

This particular article's summary just states the facts. There is no stated point-of-view in the summary! All Slashdot submissions must have a POV! Please, Help! tell me what to think! Heeeeelp!

Re:What am I supposed to think!!!??? (3, Funny)

crutchy (1949900) | about 10 months ago | (#43982673)

repeat after me... "apple is gay"

Re:What am I supposed to think!!!??? (1)

mcgrew (92797) | about 10 months ago | (#43983515)

I'd have modded that "funny" but funny comments are dangerous to your karma. Thin skinned Apple fans are surely not going to laugh at it, and they get mod points, too.

How silly. (0, Troll)

Guinness Beaumont (2901413) | about 10 months ago | (#43981959)

Even with his last words on the subject Yanis Varoufakis' blog worships the statist centralism of ERT that was exploited, used as a propaganda machine, and silenced critics. What would it take to break his delusions and help him realize that the entire infrastructure was beyond saving? Way to hop on the Murdoch-hate bandwagon, Yanis.

Call be cynical, but maybe a little capitalism would have been good in Greece. You know, for the ol' economy.

Re: How silly. (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982043)

Most European counties have state television next to commercial television. This nothing to do with capitalism and in most cases state television (or state funded independent television) is more objective and has more integrity. For educational and cultural productions, news and documentaries this is very noticeable.

The problem in Greece is mainly due to lack of involvement of the government and too much uncontrolled capitalism.

Re: How silly. (0)

ScentCone (795499) | about 10 months ago | (#43982161)

The problem in Greece is mainly due to lack of involvement of the government and too much uncontrolled capitalism.

No, that is not the problem. Have you ever been to Greece?

Re: How silly. (2, Interesting)

mvar (1386987) | about 10 months ago | (#43982385)

Have you? There's lack of regulation in Greece. Multinationals and companies do whatever they like, for example you may find a piece of furniture in IKEA for 100e while the same piece in France costs 40e and the average salary is 30-40% more. Same goes for food, electronics and other stuff. Despite the crisis everything remains insanely expensive in greece and the government is too corrupt and disfunctional to do anything about it

Re: How silly. (4, Insightful)

sourcerror (1718066) | about 10 months ago | (#43982661)

What kind of regulation would solve this? Companies are allowed to sell their products for whatever they want in every EU country.

Re: How silly. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43983189)

Well, in terms of flights, all flights have to be offered to all EU citizens at the same price regardless of the countries your flying between or the country you're booking from.

This is quite obvious to the customer as they're moving borders generally when flying so they noticed the price difference and complained with the EU agreeing and inacting laws.

I'm not surprised people don't really look at the prices of furniture in the same way, but doesn't mean the same shouldn't be true... ideally if not practically.

Re: How silly. (2, Interesting)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 10 months ago | (#43983407)

There's some problems here. Countries only have so much power to set pricing, without turning into authoritarian states. Australia, for instance, has long had problems with stuff costing much more there than in the US and other places. For a long time, they just accepted it because of the usual excuses of it being a smaller market (1/10 the population of the US), and the long distance away. However, now with so many digital goods and cheap shipping, it's become glaringly obvious that many sellers are just greedy and inflating prices because they can, such as with digital downloads costing more in Australia than in the US, even though it's the same product and there's no extra cost to provide a download to someone in another country as in the US. The Australian government called many software makers on the carpet to explain this ridiculous state of affairs. As I recall, the software makers didn't have much to say about it in their defense, didn't change the prices, and nothing was done. The government can bitch and complain, but the Australian government is still a western democratic country (probably a constitutional republic like most other such countries), not an authoritarian regime, so like most other places, unless there's some compelling public interest for the government to enact specific regulations or worse, a regulatory system (like they do with public utilities), sellers can charge whatever they want for goods and services. It's not up to the government to look at every business and every item their selling and determine if it's fairly priced or not.

The EU could do it with airlines because airlines are already a heavily regulated industry (being so safety-critical, after all). Furniture sales is not a regulated industry.

Finally, as I understand it, the whole point of the EU was to basically be a trade confederation, where there was free trade between member states, and a common currency, and a few key things done at the EU level, but where the member countries mostly kept their own sovereignty. If you have the EU government setting up regulation for pricing furniture and other such things, then basically you've given up on the idea of member countries having any sovereignty at all, and have decided to make the EU into a single country, just like the US, only worse (our US federal government does not regulate furniture pricing, and AFAIK there's nothing stopping companies from charging 3x as much in stores in Maine as they do in stores in California).

Of course, if it's that much cheaper to buy furniture or other things in other countries than Greece, what's keeping people from setting up new businesses where they buy the stuff from stores in those other countries, then drive it over to Greece and resell it there at a markup smaller than the difference that the original seller has in place? After all, that's exactly what would happen here in the USA if IKEA tried selling stuff at such a severe markup in one state for some weird reason. Heck, you could make a business just advertising IKEA stuff on the internet (without even having any stock), along with appropriate shipping costs, and then when people buy it, you run out to your local IKEA and buy it, then ship it to them.

Re: How silly. (4, Insightful)

thesupraman (179040) | about 10 months ago | (#43982717)

And here we have a perfect example of (one of the reasons) why Greece has the problems it has.
People so convinced that the are owed more of everything as to think that goods being sold by
private companies can be price fixed by the government so they can afford them.

Hint: if people are not buying them, the companies will lower the price if they want to sell them, its
called supply and demand.. if people want the products, the price will rise.
Surely you are not going to try and convince us IKEA somehow has a monopoly on furniture that it is
somehow using to force people to pay high prices?

The 'problem' with free markets is people reap what they (and their governments) sow, and greece
has done a lot of sowing over the last few decades (as have many other countries).

Hint: if you want a higher quality of living, you have to be either smarter, or harder working, or willing
to sacrifice more natural resources than others - not always pleasant, just a FACT.

Re: How silly. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43983173)

Hint: if people are not buying them, the companies will lower the price if they want to sell them, its
called supply and demand.. if people want the products, the price will rise.
Surely you are not going to try and convince us IKEA somehow has a monopoly on furniture that it is
somehow using to force people to pay high prices?

Now, with the same reasonning, please explain price of digital goods such as music, movies and e-books for which supply is close to illimited and people are "pirating" instead of buying because the prices don't go down ...

I leave near a border where I can buy a Nexus 4 for 350EUR on one side and 499EUR on the other side. In the same wal-mart-like shop, it's not because of lack of supply or anything, it's just because some economist found out that in my country people are statistically willing to pay a bit more than our neighbours.

Point is: supply and demand logic has been broken for a while (I'd add "by big corporations" but someone would add a [citation needed]), time to fix it.

Re: How silly. (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 10 months ago | (#43983421)

No, supply and demand logic isn't broken at all. If the company found that people on one side of the border are willing to pay more, then that means there's more demand on that side. Simple economics 101 dictates that prices rise with higher demand and a fixed supply. Sounds like everything's working just fine where you are.

If people are that mad about it, what's keeping someone from going to the other side of the border, buying up lots of Nexus 4s, then driving to the other side and reselling them for less than 499EUR?

Re: How silly. (5, Insightful)

willy_me (212994) | about 10 months ago | (#43983409)

And here we have a perfect example of (one of the reasons) why Greece has the problems it has. People so convinced that the are owed more of everything as to think that goods being sold by private companies can be price fixed by the government so they can afford them.

The point of regulation is to prevent companies from market manipulation. Companies will naturally move to maximize profits and will, if allowed, perform any action to do so. Competition gets eaten up while at the same time no room is left for new players. Eventually, the market dies.

So regulation is required to facilitate a healthy market. Rules are put in place to ensure that established companies can not prevent competition from entering a market. Limits to what monopolies can do are instigated. Everybody is forced to play fair in an attempt to maximize competition and the benefits of capitalism.

People go on and on about how capitalism and regulation are polar opposites. This is ludicrous. Without regulation the benefits of capitalism do not exist. The invisible hand is an idealized concept which, much like communism, ignores reality and is doomed to failure. A market without sufficient regulation will not optimizes overall efficiency. Of course too much regulation also reduces efficiency - but a certain amount is always required.

So this isn't about the Greek people wanting the government to fix prices - this would obviously not work. It's about opening up the markets that have been sewn shut by the current players. This required effective regulation - far easier said then done.

Re: How silly. (2, Funny)

ScentCone (795499) | about 10 months ago | (#43983641)

So this isn't about the Greek people wanting the government to fix prices - this would obviously not work.

But the Greek people have - for a long time - been demanding all sorts of things that obviously don't (and can't) work, and that's why they're in such a mess. Endless entitlement-minded demands from the Nanny State are self destructive, and ... Greece has indeed self destructed.

Re: How silly. (2)

khallow (566160) | about 10 months ago | (#43982165)

The problem in Greece is mainly due to lack of involvement of the government and too much uncontrolled capitalism.

This is sarcasm right? It's kind of like looking at a car with a flat and claiming the problem is that the driver hasn't punctured the other three tires too. Greece didn't get into the mess it is in by unfettering capitalism, a thing incidentally that it has yet to do.

Re: How silly. (4, Interesting)

mjwx (966435) | about 10 months ago | (#43982769)

The problem in Greece is mainly due to lack of involvement of the government and too much uncontrolled capitalism.

This is sarcasm right? It's kind of like looking at a car with a flat and claiming the problem is that the driver hasn't punctured the other three tires too. Greece didn't get into the mess it is in by unfettering capitalism, a thing incidentally that it has yet to do.

No, endemic levels of tax evasion (come on, you honestly expect me to believe you had no idea Greece was a tax haven) mixed with equally endemic levels of corruption means that Greece's tax revenues have consistently fallen below expectation. So even when the Greek minister balanced the books, the companies in Greece simply didn't pay tax.

It was cheaper to pay off the tax collector than to pay tax. Essentially companies could do what they wanted as long as they kept the right palms greased (which is cheap for any multinational).

Next thing you're going tell me is that your shocked that some Thai girl offered to have sex with you in Bangkok when prostitution is illegal in Thailand.

Re: How silly. (2)

mcgrew (92797) | about 10 months ago | (#43983411)

Next thing you're going tell me is that your shocked that some Thai girl offered to have sex with you in Bangkok when prostitution is illegal in Thailand.

When did that happen? When I spent a year there in the USAF 40 years ago, hookers were respected and honored for their service to society.

Re: How silly. (0)

khallow (566160) | about 10 months ago | (#43983521)

No, endemic levels of tax evasion (come on, you honestly expect me to believe you had no idea Greece was a tax haven) mixed with equally endemic levels of corruption means that Greece's tax revenues have consistently fallen below expectation.

That isn't due to uncontrolled capitalism or an uninvolved government, but rather due to widespread disobedience of a too involved government. When running a successful business or getting a job requires you to disregard or sidestep government regulation, then you're going to see a society chock full of law breakers.

OTOH, if it truly was as you said, then we would see no such disobedience merely because there wouldn't be that sort of law passed in the first place. Personally, I think Greece would benefit from capitalism that was a little less controlled and a government that was a little less involved.

Re: How silly. (1)

blue trane (110704) | about 10 months ago | (#43982787)

Didn't investing in Goldman Sachs toxic assets contribute to their problems?

The problem in Greece seems to be an artificial scarcity of money imposed by the EU central bank and the IMF. The solution is to get out of the EU and stimulate individuals to innovate with a basic income, and challenges.

Re: How silly. (1)

jeremyp (130771) | about 10 months ago | (#43982885)

The problem in Greece seems to be an artificial scarcity of money imposed by the EU central bank and the IMF. The solution is to get out of the EU and stimulate individuals to innovate with a basic income, and challenges.

By EU, I think you mean the Eurozone, which is not the same thing as the EU. The UK, for instance, is in the EU but not in the Eurozone seeing as we still have our own currency.

Re: How silly. (1)

KiloByte (825081) | about 10 months ago | (#43982931)

You mean, covering shortages by printing money can possibly have a positive effect? That's news to me.

The EU works hard to help Greece here, and to stop the politicos' attempts to give handouts right during a collapse (like your average CEO, all they think about is short-term gains). If you're facing an incoming bankruptcy, the solution is not to go on another spending spree.

Re: How silly. (1, Troll)

Eunuchswear (210685) | about 10 months ago | (#43983223)

You mean, covering shortages by printing money can possibly have a positive effect? That's news to me.

John Maynard Keynes? Heard of him?

The EU works hard to help Greece here, and to stop the politicos' attempts to give handouts right during a collapse (like your average CEO, all they think about is short-term gains).

In the long run we're all dead.

If you're facing an incoming bankruptcy, the solution is not to go on another spending spree.

This is why the reductions spending have produced such a massive improvement in the Greek economy.

Even the fucking IMF have admitted they were wrong!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jun/05/imf-underestimated-damage-austerity-would-do-to-greece [guardian.co.uk]

We find that, in advanced economies, stronger planned fiscal consolidation has been associated with lower growth than expected, with the relation being particularly strong, both statistically and economically, early in the crisis. A natural interpretation is that fiscal multipliers were substantially higher than implicitly assumed by forecasters.

It turns out that cutting 1 euro of government spending shrinks the economy by 1.7 euros, not the 0,5 euros they thought.

Re: How silly. (1)

lxs (131946) | about 10 months ago | (#43983083)

Don't blame the EU for not throwing even more money into that bottomless abyss, if you want to blame the EU and international finance, blame them for not shutting off the free money 20 years ago when the debt was still manageable.

Re: How silly. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982535)

This is like the US attack on NPR and PBS. Most of the editorial power of the hundred TV channels sits in 5 board rooms. The one voice they CAN'T control is the imagined buggy boo on the night of socialism.

Re: How silly. (1, Insightful)

Guinness Beaumont (2901413) | about 10 months ago | (#43982803)

I didn't bring the argument of capitalism into this. The blog post linked in TFA did. Further, the public channels are described as nothing more than a mouth-piece for propaganda - blacklisting voices of dissent - how does this even come close to the picture you paint of "more objective"/"more integrity"? Lastly, no. The Greek crisis was not an issue of rampant capitalism.

Re:How silly. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982437)

Yeah, because capitalism solves every problem, especially insolvency. Just like magic, right? As opposed to people, especially the rich, actually paying their taxes. That clearly won't accomplish anything because that would be socialism, right?

Captcha: cuckoo.
Indeed.

Re:How silly. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982755)

You also forgot to point out that they're fucking retarded. I'm surprised you missed that.

Re:How silly. (1)

Guinness Beaumont (2901413) | about 10 months ago | (#43982821)

That's a pretty harsh strawman you've put together there. There's a minute a mile between "this isn't working" and "the opposite must be true." It's the realm of rational debate.

On the off chance you're not trolling, but actually looking for a response, here it is: No, I don't think that a single public company turned private would solve the Greek crisis. Nor do I think that the public sector is entirely to blame. But there are two approaches to dealing with revenue shortages. One of them is spending less money. A public television network is hardly the greatest need in a country torn apart by riots - literally the poster child of a EU-style failure. Is that a bash against socialism? Not unless you're contending that public television is the essential form of socialist infrastructure.

So no, not magic. Just common sense. When you're poor, stop spending money on non-essentials. A few people have pointed out that there was/is corruption of an insane degree, cutting into tax collection and undermining the budget. That's not really a counter to my OP. Saying that you've failed in enforcing the law isn't an argument against a free market. It's an argument against continuing to employ your inept police force.

Re:How silly. (1)

andrepd (2932623) | about 10 months ago | (#43983295)

>When you're poor, stop spending money on non-essentials. Like food, housing, school for your kids, etc. Don't talk about what you clearly know nothing of. Your comfy middle class position does not give you the right to speak like that about a reality that you can't even grasp.

Re:How silly. (1)

ultranova (717540) | about 10 months ago | (#43983423)

When you're poor, stop spending money on non-essentials.

Which means that shops get less business, which means that more will go bankrupt, which means that more people fall into poverty, etc.

The main problem with austerity is that it creates a death spiral. A government can't save its way out of debt, because every time it cuts spending the economy shrinks even more, cutting income and sending people into poverty. Either Greece stops austerity measures, or there's going to be an open rebellion at some point.

Re:How silly. (0, Troll)

Guinness Beaumont (2901413) | about 10 months ago | (#43982665)

Disagreeing with a mod is trolling. Ha.

Re:How silly. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982829)

No. Being fucking retarded and posting your drivel as if you're an authoritative source for information on a subject which you're completely devoid of knowledge is trolling. You know nothing of political science, economics, the situation in Greece, what capitalism is, what a recession means, or the historical and cultural implications concerning Greece is in all of this.

Basically, you're a complete and utter fucking moron who presents their ideas as if they're valid and then act shocked when you're called out on it. If you took a few minutes to educate yourself about the situation and another few minutes to use a dictionary to look up the words that you think you know the definitions of then you might realize that you simply don't know enough about this (or any one of a number of other topics on which you choose to opine) to bother posting in the first place.

Your comments serve no value other than to placate yourself with the sound of your own voice until such time as someone calls you on it at which point you whine because nobody was willing to give you the response you were hoping for. Such is further evidenced by your signature which, frankly, you should be ashamed of but you instead opt to wear it like a fucking trophy.

You should have noticed by now that your comments are completely and totally devoid of value. You're like the Down's Syndrome kid who keeps going back over to the bullies and getting beaten up over and over again. It truly is, "nothing personal." The reality is that you don't post anything of value and then you fucking whine like the petulant child you are when nobody agrees with you.

If you insist on staying and wish to have a good time then you're probably better served by shutting the fuck up, reading, learning, doing some research, and actually making intelligent comments. You've yet to make a single intelligent comment from what I have seen. However, you'll probably stick around and do nothing of the sort because it gets you some attention and you crave the attention and aren't smart enough to get it in a more positive fashion.

Posting with words you don't understand, in topics you don't understand, as if you're an authority on the subject, and having a history of doing so is, in fact, trolling. I'm not sure you'll actually be able to grasp this or have enough capacity of honest introspection to understand that this is, in fact, an effort to help you.

I am posting as AC because I modded in this thread but I didn't moderate your post. However, I agree with the person(s) who did mark you down as a troll.

who cares? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43981985)

they elected the communist nazi's, not me, so fuck them, they got exactly what they asked for ... a shithole

Re:who cares? (2)

shentino (1139071) | about 10 months ago | (#43982233)

Considering how often we the people in the US have our own votes stolen, I'm a bit miffed you would say they deserve what they get.

Re:who cares? (0)

Cenan (1892902) | about 10 months ago | (#43982677)

What the fuck is a communist nazi?

Re:who cares? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982837)

It is exactly the same as a fascist libertarian or a conservative liberal. Why do you ask?

Re:who cares? (0)

Cenan (1892902) | about 10 months ago | (#43982925)

Around here, where I vote, a conservative and a liberal is pretty much the same thing. I think you're missing a part of the political spectrum if those are the only two words you have to fling around. And I'm no more closer to an explanation of the elusive communist nazi after reading your reply.

Re:who cares? (0, Troll)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 10 months ago | (#43983443)

You must live in the USA, like me. 10 years ago, conservatives and liberals were definitely two different things. But now with Obama duplicating all of Bush's policies and all the liberals supporting him, "liberal" and "conservative" are basically the same thing.

Now watch a bunch of liberals come out of the woodwork to call me names or act as Obama apologists.

Whisky Tango Foxtrot? (5, Insightful)

TWX (665546) | about 10 months ago | (#43982033)

That's kind of weird. We hear about governments shutting down all broadcast media other than state-owned media so often that the opposite is just...bizarre...

What's the rest of Greece's commercial broadcast media like? What was this organization like? The only analogues I have are NPR and PBS for "state owned" and that's not necessarily entirely accurate, and that private broadcast media here in the US is often very, very heavily biased, even moreso when they make claims to the contrary.

Re:Whisky Tango Foxtrot? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982065)

The rest of Greece's commercial broadcast media belong to 3 publishing corporations which also have magazines, constructor companies etc etc. They usually use their media as a pressure for politicians in order to get large public sector construction sites and their idea of news is to terrorize people in order to accept austerity measures.

Re:Whisky Tango Foxtrot? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982351)

Would you say they use their media to Greece the wheels?

Re:Whisky Tango Foxtrot? (1)

daniel.garcia.romero (2755603) | about 10 months ago | (#43983435)

The rest of Greece's commercial broadcast media belong to 3 publishing corporations which also have magazines, constructor companies etc etc. They usually use their media as a pressure for politicians in order to get large public sector construction sites and their idea of news is to terrorize people in order to accept austerity measures.

So, it's the same shit as Brazil's media. Small world!

Re:Whisky Tango Foxtrot? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982067)

greece has become too poor to put out statist propaganda.

Re:Whisky Tango Foxtrot? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982111)

I can only hope to see a similar result for CBC/Radio Canada. It's the mostly taxpayer funded broadcasting propaganda entity in Canada. Usually managed by a jew, staffed by homos, leftists, commies, jews and greenies.

ref: http://www.cbc.radio-canada.ca/en/explore/who-we-are-what-we-do/

Re:Whisky Tango Foxtrot? (5, Informative)

TapeCutter (624760) | about 10 months ago | (#43982341)

The only analogues I have are NPR and PBS for "state owned"

BBC in the UK, ABC/SBS in Oz. Note that there is an important distinction between "state owned" and "state controlled".

Re:Whisky Tango Foxtrot? (1, Insightful)

TheMathemagician (2515102) | about 10 months ago | (#43982961)

I'm envious. I wish the UK government would shut down the BBC.

Re:Whisky Tango Foxtrot? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43983287)

Why?!

I can't stand luddites like you who hate on things and don't explain why.

Perhaps if you spoke up you might realise that alot of what they do is give people what they want to see, if they don't know what you want, who's falut is that?

For me the BBC is worth it purely for it's Nature programs (which other freely broadcast channel does this?) alone, not to mention it's efforts in regards to protecting and informing the consumer as to their rights... or hosting neutral political debate... DR WHO! (get off /. now if you don't get that)... childrens programing that isn't based around selling the latest toys... the proms... wimbledon... international footbal... news, weather... ALL FOR SMEGGING FREE AND AVAILABLE ONLINE AT NO EXTRA COST*! (which reminds me, Red Dwarf)

Is there a lot of dross too, yep, but you can look away you know.

*yes it is free. the licence fee is applicable for purely owning a TV, that money goes to government and then they assign it to the BBC, that is the limit of the state involvement and you would need a license if you watch the BBC or not. Is that a hack, maybe, but that's the way it is.

Re:Whisky Tango Foxtrot? (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 10 months ago | (#43983069)

Note that there is an important distinction between "state owned" and "state controlled"

And "state supported". NPR and PBS are neither owned nor controlled by the government; they simply get some (not all) of their funding from it.

Re:Whisky Tango Foxtrot? (4, Interesting)

mvar (1386987) | about 10 months ago | (#43982367)

What's the rest of Greece's commercial broadcast media like?

same as the rest of the worlds: Owned by the rich and serving their interests by promoting political views and pressuring the government "in the right direction"

Re:Whisky Tango Foxtrot? (1)

Jiro (131519) | about 10 months ago | (#43983155)

As opposed to state-owned media, which are owned by poor governments, don't serve the interests of their owners, and don't promote political views.

At least if the station is privately owned, there are several of them with somewhat different owners. And you can turn them off without being forced to pay for them.

Re:Whisky Tango Foxtrot? (2)

ultranova (717540) | about 10 months ago | (#43983227)

At least if the station is privately owned, there are several of them with somewhat different owners.

And they're all called Rubert Murdoch.

And you can turn them off without being forced to pay for them.

No, you can't. Apart from direct subsidies there's the whole licensing system that allocates spectrum to those stations, and requires enforcement - can't have unlicensed pirate stations, after all. And as a completely unintended side effect means that stations only operate as long as they get the government's blessing.

Re:Whisky Tango Foxtrot? (2)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 10 months ago | (#43983467)

No, you can't.

Don't be stupid, yes you can. No one is forcing you to watch TV. I can't even remember the last time I watched broadcast TV; my TV does nothing these days except to serve as a Netflix viewing device.

Apart from direct subsidies there's the whole licensing system that allocates spectrum to those stations, and requires enforcement - can't have unlicensed pirate stations, after all. And as a completely unintended side effect means that stations only operate as long as they get the government's blessing.

Who cares? Yes, 20+ years ago this was a problem. The internet has fixed it: if you want to make your own TV station without the government's blessing, it's easy: just set up your own web site with streaming video. Or upload your videos to YouTube.

As a Greek (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982071)

i should tell you that i feel very happy about that decision
* They said that the "ERT tax" on power bills will be over (it was about 10-30% of the bill, depending on the size of the bill, believe it or not!)
* In the same time that they ask for minimum wage to be lower than 500euros/month, they were hiring journalists with ten times this wage in order to control them. You can read about that in Varoufakis blog.

Re:As a Greek (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982849)

Could you expand on the funding? For instance, without knowing what your power bill is there's no way to know what 10-30% of that is. Is the fee actually based on a percentage of your power bill? What is their total operating budget? What percentage of government expenditure is that total equal to? It seems strange to fund a television station by guessing at how much power bills are going to be and then taxing those bills a certain/variable percentage to get that funding. It is no wonder the country is messed up and everyone participated in the national sport of tax evasion.

Re:As a Greek (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43983001)

They didn't say that the "ERT tax" will be over. They *claimed* that it will be lowered.

Re:As a Greek (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43983449)

As a Greek myself I have to tell the world that you are lying!
10-30%??? it is more like 4 -5 euros per bill which comes 6 times a year.

House Of Corruption (5, Informative)

master_p (608214) | about 10 months ago | (#43982211)

ERT was a House Of Corruption. It should have been shut down years ago.

Not only was it a propaganda station, but it was also full of employees that did not have a job description, but they were employed by politicians in order to vote for them.

2500 employees for 3 channels and 1 radio station.

Re:House Of Corruption (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982525)

Not Corruption,
It was a Turkish Secret-Serviceman who penetrated the building to find the videos of Greek Civillians being abused when protesting the ECB/GoldmanSachs/"bailouts". It shows the Greek protesters took more beatings than the Turkish protestors.

Greek authorities were tipped off about potential leaks of the crimes of the bankster-led-government, and raided the station to prevent Erdogans defense of the heavy-handed-police.
no matter private/state media, matter-of-fact is video footage is being censored/not shown to consumers/public
juST LOOK AT THE FREEDOM FLOTILLA FOOTAGE

Re:House Of Corruption (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982699)

Just look at the Obama horse sex footage!
Think of the children people!

Re:House Of Corruption (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982791)

ERT was a House Of Corruption. It should have been shut down years ago.

Not only was it a propaganda station, but it was also full of employees that did not have a job description, but they were employed by politicians in order to vote for them.

2500 employees for 3 channels and 1 radio station.

more Like 4 channels and 26 radio stations (18 of them local in areas with little coverage from other media)

Re:House Of Corruption (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43983457)

The ERT station employment was used for political reasons.
They could easily sack those.
Why didn't they sack those first before closing the only country wide broadcaster?

Why pay for cow when you can have the milk free? (2)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982261)

State-owned television is too transparent.

Better to have state-licensed, state-influenced, and state-monitored television... It's clearly much more effective.

Night night liberty (2)

OhANameWhatName (2688401) | about 10 months ago | (#43982327)

Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among the people.
... John Adams [wikipedia.org]

Re:Night night liberty (1)

Antiocheian (859870) | about 10 months ago | (#43983221)

You are probably not aware that ERT (Elleneki Radiophonia Teleorassi) was the only allowed TV/Radio station in Greece for many years [microsofttranslator.com] . In fact when CNN announced its plan to broadcast in Greece by satellite in the 80s, a minister of the Socialist government threatened to "shoot" it down.

ERT is the most iconic symbol of an old, despotic, union-owned state that is finally breaking down.

Is Greece even a proper country? (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43982485)

Some nations are not what they seem. Europe has many of these- pseudo nations that exist to serve the geopolitical purposes of their neighbours. Greece hasn't been relevant since the time Ancient Rome took control.

Greece only hits the news today because the chumps that 'rule' that laughable region do something like ban all hand-held computer games, and promise to imprison tourists that travel with their 'gameboys' (yes, this actually happened for real, when the corrupt Greek politicians banned ALL computer gaming devices to hit out at the businesspeople who were running gambling machines without giving the said politicians their cut of the action).

Today, Greece is an extreme-right-wing satellite of Israel (Greece funnelled Israeli weapons of mass destruction to the Serbian butchers when Serbs were exterminating the Muslims of Bosnia- the famous bread-queue bombings were carried out with Israeli fragmentation weapons, honed to slaughter civilians in Gaza and Lebanon).

Re:Is Greece even a proper country? (-1)

deoxyribonucleose (993319) | about 10 months ago | (#43982763)

I'd considered asking you what constitutes a 'real' as opposed to 'pseudo-' nation, but then I realized you might answer. Pray tell, are you sure it isn't the lizard people using chemtrails to convince the Greek population of the existence of global warming? I'm having trouble distinguishing between all the nutty conspiracy theories these days.

Re:Is Greece even a proper country? (0)

mlk (18543) | about 10 months ago | (#43982935)

It is the lizard people who run Israel!

And the lizard people are just people old Doctor Who costumes working for the BBC.

Re:Is Greece even a proper country? (1)

Jiro (131519) | about 10 months ago | (#43983175)

... which of course is a government-owned broadcaster, so we're back where we started.

Re:Is Greece even a proper country? (1)

matfud (464184) | about 10 months ago | (#43983501)

The BBC is not owned by the government. It has a Royal Charter and a Licence and Agreement from the Home Secretary. Parliament set the license fee.

Re:Is Greece even a proper country? (0)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 10 months ago | (#43983495)

No, it's not the lizard people, it's the crab people. Crab people, crab people, crab people...

Sad, but can Greece afford it? (2)

Camael (1048726) | about 10 months ago | (#43982901)

In TFA, Varoufakis talks about the value of the Hellenic Broadcasting Corporation, or ERT to Greece.

In light of the well publicised financial problems faced by the government in Greece today, can Greece affored to keep it open?

The government's excuse is thus :-

Government spokesman Simos Kedikoglou – a former state TV journalist – described ERT as a "haven of waste". He said its employees would be compensated.

Kedikoglou said in a televised statement aired on the state broadcaster: "At a time when the Greek people are enduring sacrifices, there is no room for delay, hesitation or tolerance for sacred cows.

"ERT is a typical example of unique lack of transparency and incredible waste. And that ends today," Kedikoglou said. "It costs three to seven times as much as other TV stations and four to six times the personnel – for a very small viewership, about half that of an average private station."

ERT has long been seen as a bastion of quality programming in a media landscape dominated by commercial stations. But it was also used by successive governments to provide safe jobs for political favourites, and, while nominally independent, devoted considerable time and effort to showcasing administration policies.

Source here [guardian.co.uk]

Granted the government's self-interest is to spin this story in their favour, but unless they are lying, given the fact that there are more urgent public sector needs that need to be met (eg. hospitals, food kitchens etc) the reasons they gave seem fairly reasonable in the circumstances.

Re:Sad, but can Greece afford it? (1)

Eunuchswear (210685) | about 10 months ago | (#43983247)

ERT is a typical example of unique lack of transparency

This fucker - he uses words that he doesn't know the meaning of.

Typicaly unique, uniquely typical. How does that work?

The bigger picture (5, Informative)

cynop (2023642) | about 10 months ago | (#43982913)

Ok so here's a bigger picture of what led to the shut down.
1) The ERT (National Radio) was a way for decades for the goverment to reward supporters with well-payed tenured jobs.
2) As a result, there are hundreds of people working there who get payed for menial tasks.
3) The Troika has demanded that about 2500 people working for the public sector will be fired before the end of June. 150.000 before the end of 2014.
4) A large privatisation programme that was a requirement from the Troika to continue the Greek bail out failed on Monday (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jun/10/greek-gas-supplier-selloff-gazprom )

As a result shutting down ERT hits two birds with one stone: It allows them to fire more than the minimum 2500 that was required, and also distracts the public opinion from mondays failure that is sure to bring more austerity measures. The goverment claims that the shutdown was justified because of the corruption and thriftlessness of the organization, while the governing party was the one that helped create them.

Greek needs new public TV/Radio/Internet-Station (3, Interesting)

prefec2 (875483) | about 10 months ago | (#43983137)

I do not speak Greek or are able to evaluate the quality of the public TV-station there, but I know that in Germany the public TV plays an important role in fighting dumb TV for the masses with some of their information programs (even though they also provide shows which can only be watched if you had a lobotomy, just like the US TV ;-)). So from that point of view, I think this is a bad move for Greece. The Greek should start a new public TV station funded by the public and controlled by a council where every group of the Greek population has a seat in (no payments) and they have to agree on consensus on elections for directors. that will realize an independent media house, which is in high demand in Greece (and the rest of Europe).

BTW: I personally do not like the way Greece have been treated by the rest of the EU, especially Merkel, but I also think, they should get rid of their present politicians and demand more public influence in all processes. A little like Switzerland.

Re:Greek needs new public TV/Radio/Internet-Statio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43983211)

It is announced that until August there will be a new public TV replacing the old one. But everyone's fear is if the new company will hire people from the "back door" as the old one did.

Re:Greek needs new public TV/Radio/Internet-Statio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#43983505)

A major issue is how this thing went on
Essentially the PM decided and enforced the decision in an afternoon without going through parliament or even securing the agreement of the other two parties of the coalition goverment (the PM's party does not have a majority)
Then sent the riot police to secure the studios and the infrastructure and make sure the signal goes down

It is surprisingly authoritarian for a nominally democratic goverment

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