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Nationwide Snooping System Launched In India

timothy posted about a year ago | from the obviously-they're-behind dept.

Communications 98

knwny writes "The Times of India reports that 'India has launched a wide-ranging surveillance program that will give its security agencies and even income tax officials the ability to tap directly into e-mails and phone calls without oversight by courts or parliament, several sources said.'" Adds an anonymous reader: "What's chilling is the comments from senior officials indicating that parts of the program are already live, without absolutely any discussion in public about it."

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Outlook.com (5, Funny)

futuramasd (2958127) | about a year ago | (#44060653)

Outlook.com has NEVER given emails to any agendy to read. When you get Microsoft Outlook, your data is safe.

Cheers,
David Futura

Re:Outlook.com (0)

stewsters (1406737) | about a year ago | (#44060673)

You don't have to give emails if you don't have any users...

Re:Outlook.com (1)

lgw (121541) | about a year ago | (#44062183)

Outlook.com has about as many users as gmail. Yahoo is a distant third. I can't find any user count for icloud, but I think it's still smaller than Yahoo. Interestingly, mail.ru is the only webmail with a high Alexa rank, despite a medium-sized user pool (perhaps the Alexa toolbar is just popular in Russia?).

I thought India was better than China ?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44067817)

For umpteenth years I've had people telling me that India is better than China

That India is a democratic country, that India adheres to true democracy

People in India kept on saying that their country is much better than China - a country under socialist dictatorship which has no future

Then why a so-called "democratic country" implements something as draconian as the one China would be accustomed to --- a country-wide snooping apparatus on the citizens

Is India still better than China ?

If so, in which way, pray tell ?

Re:Outlook.com (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44067913)

Yes, I have an outlook.com account, and have never sent a mail via outlook.com nor received one in it.

Re:Outlook.com (4, Funny)

Geccoman (18319) | about a year ago | (#44060675)

Only "data" was shared, not the actual email! Trust us!

Re:Outlook.com (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44060687)

Microsoft Shill gets first comment. Well done.

Re:Outlook.com (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44060815)

Microsoft Shill gets first comment.

It's his only comment! Pure shill

Re:Outlook.com (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about a year ago | (#44060941)

"Given", eh? Since the protections for electronic communications on the wire are (briefly stated) "Haha, fuck all" and the protections for stored communications are triviallly breached with (at most) a warrant, often a 2703(d) order, sometimes just a nasty note, that isn't terribly helpful even if true.

Re:Outlook.com (1)

nickmh (2496180) | about a year ago | (#44064679)

They will, they'll have to, to survive.

Code monkey see, code monkey do (4, Interesting)

stewsters (1406737) | about a year ago | (#44060701)

This is the real damage the NSA has done in spying on the American people. Now every other country feels like they need it, because the US does. In the west, it used to be bashed as something only oppressive regimes did. Soon it will be everyone.

Precisely, and whether we care to admit it.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44060791)

The U.S. sets the international standard. If the U.S. is doing it, it must be okay.

Re:Precisely, and whether we care to admit it.. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44060987)

The U.S. sets the international standard. If the U.S. is doing it, it must be okay.

Exactly.

It will be quite interesting to see if people in other nations take to the streets in protest while most USians have shown they'll continue the status quo eating cheeseburgers and watching wrasslin'.

Re:Precisely, and whether we care to admit it.. (1, Funny)

lgw (121541) | about a year ago | (#44062215)

Right, because you're the smart, politically aware guy, it's only everone else [xkcd.com] who's sheeple.

Re:Precisely, and whether we care to admit it.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44063477)

To be honest, it doesn't really take much effort to be more intelligent than most people. Have you seen how many people vote for republicans and democrats? Have you seen how easily manipulated most people are after a disaster (the 9/11 attacks come to mind)? Most people make the process of surpassing them in intelligence so very simple, so it's a rather low bar to pass to begin with.

Re:Precisely, and whether we care to admit it.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44063565)

What the US government SAYS they do, and what the US government DOES, are two very different things.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (4, Insightful)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | about a year ago | (#44061145)

Soon it will be everyone.

You mean, Soon we will find it has been everyone.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44061209)

This is the real damage the NSA has done in spying on the American people. Now every other country feels like they need it, because the US does. In the west, it used to be bashed as something only oppressive regimes did. Soon it will be everyone.

The whole NSA spying is the knee-jerk reaction to terrorism and the stupidity of the US electorate who elected the politicians who enabled the NSA- every asshole in Congress who voted for the PATRIOT Act is as fault here and every person who keeps voting for those assholes is at fault too.

BUT, our assholes wouldn't have been able to do it if it weren't for other assholes who are under the impression that indiscriminate violence against people (terrorism) will allow them to achieve their goals. I mean, since 9/11, has ANY of Al-Qaeda's goal been achieved?

No.

The only thing they caused was further hardships on their Muslim "brothers", increased contempt of the religion they think they follow (Muslims, many look down on you because of Al-Qaeda and their ilk.), and more power to the despots that control their home governments.

Or let's look at the IRA. The best they got out of the English was a bone thrown to them.

Who's doing it right? Tibet.

No matter how hard the Chinese try, they just can't seem to make Tibet look bad. And why is that?

The Tibetans aren't blowing up towers filled with innocent people.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (1)

hurwak-feg (2955853) | about a year ago | (#44061545)

Someone should mod this up.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (1, Flamebait)

davester666 (731373) | about a year ago | (#44062325)

Actually, yes, I would guess some of their goals have been met since 9/11.

The US has become more of a police state, with more widespread video camera surveillance and invasion of privacy of it's citizens, crazy airport security, more US resentment in the middle east through our "war on terror".

The list goes on and on.

Osama was largely successful in accomplishing his goals. We are cowering, imagining terrorists around every corner. And the US gov't is embracing it, because it has enabled them to greatly expand their power.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44062381)

Terrorists win
- Counterstrike, when I play as CT

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44063331)

Terrorists win
- Counterstrike, when I play as CT

If you loved America, you'd practice more so that didn't happen. :(

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (2)

hoggoth (414195) | about a year ago | (#44064613)

Sadly, this doesn't seem to have helped the Tibetans much.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (1)

hany (3601) | about a year ago | (#44068039)

... yet.

Time will tell.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44064659)

The whole NSA spying is the knee-jerk reaction to terrorism

It is a power grab. The "terrorist" stuff is just a cover story.

Remember, 911 was not just a tragedy. There are people that viewed it as an opportunity. That's where were are today.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44064943)

... The best they got out of the English was a bone thrown to them ...

The IRA in the 1980s was the first terrorist militia to decide that non-combatants did not exist and start blowing up their own children. It forced PM Thatcher to broker a peace treaty that actually meant something. This 'everybody is guilty' philosophy was repeated by Al-awari and Bin laden. The US stance is almost identical in theory, but since they don't pay compensation for wrongful killings or punish fly-boys who bomb first and question later, it is identical in practice.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (5, Interesting)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#44061561)

This is the real damage the NSA has done in spying on the American people. Now every other country feels like they need it, because the US does.

Ah, cultural chauvinism.... how on earth could those other people find the way if they didn't have an example to follow? I'll break it to you gently: Neither the terrorism by al Qaida nor the alleged surveillance by the Indian government has much of anything to do with the US. They each have their own independent values, ideals, goals, and work to achieve them. Spying by government and terrorism existed long before the United States, and it wasn't psychic powers anticipating the United States that induced people to engage in those practices then any more than it does today.

Al Qida wants to restore what they believe to be the lost glory of Islamic civilization of a 1,000 years ago, recreate the Islamic Caliphate that was dissolved in 1923 after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, conquer the world for Islam, and convert the world's peoples to Islam. They want to overthrow pretty much all of the existing governments in Muslim nations for not following their strict interpretation of Islam. You may think it is unrealistic, but that is their goal, even if it takes 1,000 years. The existence of nonexistence of the United States has little to do with it. If you want to blame anyone, blame Europe for repelling the Muslim invasion at the gates of Vienna in 1683.

And when it comes to India, the largest democracy in the world, as a rapidly modernizing country that is supplier of IT talent to the world, why should they be left out of the surveillance sweepstakes? They might have a reasonable concern or two at home, given they have an active Maoist communist insurgency [bloomberg.com] , which conducted 351 attacks in 2011 [state.gov] , and a bit of a terrorism problem arising from both their neighbor Pakistan and a small fraction of the native 100,000,000 Indian citizens that are Muslim. Maybe you've heard of the Mumbai attack? As it happened: Mumbai attacks 29 Nov [bbc.co.uk] - 195 people dead and hundreds more injured.

The Indian people and government will have to find their own way, and strike their own balance to match their own conditions, traditions, and laws.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (1)

fiannaFailMan (702447) | about a year ago | (#44061647)

Thank you! I'm sick of the prevailing /. attitude to India expressed by people who don't know dick about the place or its complexities.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44062219)

> And when it comes to India, the largest democracy in the world, as a rapidly modernizing country that is supplier of IT talent to the world,

But still no toilets for hundreds of millions of its citizens. Way to go, India.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (1)

co1d fjord (2956633) | about a year ago | (#44065111)

I think that you really need to pull your head our of your ass.

India is no more a democracy than Iran or the USA is. E.g. poverty is so widespread that many people simply can't afford to get to the polling places to vote. Corruption is widespread. E.g. whole villages lose their vote, because the local big man says "OK, this time we're all voting for Congress because they paid me the biggest bribe." Not only that, first-past-the-post is such a bad system.

Also, fuck their traditions. Indian traditions include forcing women to burn themselves alive when their husbands die and forcing people in certain castes to basically shovel shit for the rest of their life.

The Maoists certainly aren't perfect. However, they are fighting against all that bullshit. If only they called themselves something like the Capitalist Libertarian Freedom Front for Democracy, and then the USA would support them wholeheartedly. Just like the USA has supported some many other right-wing and extreme right-wing revolutions, coups and militias from across South America, Africa and Europe through Asia (including South Korea).

I.e. fuck you and the donkey you rode in upon.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44066939)

Just like the USA has supported some many other right-wing and extreme right-wing revolutions, coups and militias from across South America, Africa and Europe through Asia (including South Korea).

Indeed, must be short memory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1ii__QoNuM

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44067085)

Sadly you confuse economic and political systems, and can't separate a theocracy from democracy.

You also confuse antiquated and abandoned Hindu practice as being something done by all Indians, which isn't true. More ignorance on your part.

The Maoists are blood thirsty maniacs. In China they killed tens of millions of people. If the US has supported right wing movements, why would it support the extreme left wing Maoists? Yet more silly ignorance.

Why do you waste people's time? They are more ignorant after reading your posts than before.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (3, Interesting)

just_a_monkey (1004343) | about a year ago | (#44061715)

Yeah. Remember when the main differences between "us" and "them" was that our side did not monitor their subjects' every move, and did not torture people? Those were the days.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (2)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about a year ago | (#44062673)

This is the real damage the NSA has done in spying on the American people. Now every other country feels like they need it, because the US does.

What you call "damage" others call "export market".

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44063787)

You don't seem to have any imagination at all! Every other country WILL NOT BE ALLOWED to do this. There will be a NST (Non Snooping Treaty) drafted by the five permanent members of the UN and it will be enforced on all other countries. This NST will also come in handy when we need to destroy a country that has no WMD, ruled by a "dictator" not installed by us etc. Of course a few countries will not sign it for obvious reason.

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44070993)

No, many of us in western Europe (granted not all of us) still glances across the pound wondering what the freak are you all doing over there..

Re:Code monkey see, code monkey do (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44071013)

"the pond", damn it. Why can't /. have an edit function..?

Who should blame them? (3, Insightful)

Pieroxy (222434) | about a year ago | (#44060727)

I guess the US government isn't going to blame them publicly... good timing.

What point does public discussion serve? (4, Insightful)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year ago | (#44060747)

They will just do it anyway, a bit more covertly perhaps. Public opinion is bullshit. The majority of us are against war (I assume), yet we are at war. We hate congress, yet reliably reelect almost all of them. Eh, that's politics for ya. Doesn't matter the country.

Re:What point does public discussion serve? (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | about a year ago | (#44060775)

+1

People get what they deserve.

Re:What point does public discussion serve? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44062103)

Sure. I don't even dream that India or Indians would be perturbed by this bit of news. The media might extract some mileage out of it, the opposition parties wouldn't know too much to talk about this. But in all, it will go down the same way as the IT Act 2000. Public will lose interest or will be distracted by some heavy showmanship from the political heavyweights.

Re:What point does public discussion serve? (3, Insightful)

SirGeek (120712) | about a year ago | (#44061061)

Having the public outraged against war is what got the soldiers OUT of Viet Nam before they were all massacred. People can do something, the problem is that too many people are currently more concerned with who won American Idol, or the next episodes of Big Brother, etc.

People need to stop the "I'm not doing something wrong so who cares" attitude. The point is what happens if a wrong number calls you and They ARE doing something bad, you're now "Associated" with that person so they're going go through you you wouldn't believe. And for what ? Receiving a call from a WRONG NUMBER ?

THATs the problem. They can do what they want, to whomever they wish, for any reason (or no reason other than "Your name looks funny, You must be doing something wrong."

Re:What point does public discussion serve? (2)

lgw (121541) | about a year ago | (#44062287)

Having the public outraged against war is what got the soldiers OUT of Viet Nam before they were all massacred.

The US won every major battle in the Veitnam war until they decided to leave. It was perhaps a stupid war in the first place, and the draft was just the start of what was wrong with our armed forces at the time, but we did win fights. In the Tet Offensive, 32 NVA died for every US death - it was as massive a military victory as it was a political defeat.

Nixon got the troops out. I've always felt he didn't get the credit for that he deserved.

Re:What point does public discussion serve? (1)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about a year ago | (#44062747)

Having the public outraged against war is what got the soldiers OUT of Viet Nam before they were all massacred.

The US won every major battle in the Veitnam war until they decided to leave. ... In the Tet Offensive, 32 NVA died for every US death ...

All true, but 58,000 US soldiers killed is more than enough for my tastes. The GP can be forgiven a little hyperbole.

Nixon got the troops out. I've always felt he didn't get the credit for that he deserved.

Maybe because he got them out years later than he could have.

Re:What point does public discussion serve? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year ago | (#44063311)

Nixon got the troops out. I've always felt he didn't get the credit for that he deserved.

Credit?! What the fuck are you talking about [bbc.co.uk] ?

Re:What point does public discussion serve? (1)

AxeTheMax (1163705) | about a year ago | (#44063481)

The US won every major battle in the Veitnam war until they decided to leave. .

and the US also lost the war long before they decided to leave.

Re:What point does public discussion serve? (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#44067197)

South Vietnam might have turned out like South Korea if the Democratic Congress hadn't voted to cut off aid to South Vietnam.

Business as usual (2)

intermodal (534361) | about a year ago | (#44060765)

The unfortunate new reality is that there isn't much we can do to prevent government snooping. What we can do, however, is either make it so what they find is either useless (encryption and pictures of cats) or stop using the services at all. The more time passes, the more I go the encryption and minimizing use and how much information is sent, uploaded, or posted in the first place.

Re:Business as usual (3, Insightful)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about a year ago | (#44060945)

Encryption isn't enough - encrypted communications stand out like a sore thumb as a sign you are hiding something, and the metadata alone can still be powerful if abused. To be truly effective, the encryption needs to be universal - so easy to use that even people who have no idea what encryption is still use it by default. When all the pictures of cats are encrypted, then it'll be all but impossible for any government to extract usable intelligence from the overwhelming flow of trivial noise.

Re:Business as usual (1)

intermodal (534361) | about a year ago | (#44061105)

agreed, but unless people start using it, it will never reach the point of universal.

Re:Business as usual (1)

firewrought (36952) | about a year ago | (#44061881)

To be truly effective, the encryption needs to be universal

unless people start using it, it will never reach the point of universal

And you won't make it universal until you bake into a popular protocol that's easy to use, that doesn't require extensive setup or pay-to-play, and that doesn't allow the user to trust a suspicious connection. OpenSSH and bitcoin have probably done it best so far, and I'm not sure that's anywhere close enough for the general public.

Even then, I think we underestimate the arrogance of law... if you successfully made encryption universal, then laws would be passed to force decryption (5th be damned) or monitor the endpoints.

Preserving liberty ultimately requires activism and civil disobedience.

Re:Business as usual (1)

intermodal (534361) | about a year ago | (#44062099)

I don't underestimate them. I just refuse to make it easy for them.

Re:Business as usual (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44062251)

You could take the numbers off your neighbor's house, but then they'll just look for the house next to the house with no numbers.

Stop calling it snooping (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44061081)

"Snooping" is when your harmless 80-year-old neighbor peers out between the blinds to see who you've invited over to visit. The term "snooping" implies harmlessness, whereas government (and its fundamental tool of physical force) is anything but harmless.

What government does is called spying, because government is a coercive authority, not an equal.

This is similar to how the media constantly uses the term "cracking down" to describe oppression. The term "cracking down" not only implies good intentions, but necessity -- yet the victims of the "crackdown" tell a completely different story, every single time.

Re:Stop calling it snooping (1)

intermodal (534361) | about a year ago | (#44061147)

I agree, I was simply using the terminology used in the blurb posted on Slashdot to keep things clear. Sometimes we're stuck in a given discussion with terms we find less than forthright, and it's better to get into the meat of the issue sometimes than to quibble over terms.

Re:Stop calling it snooping (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44061487)

It's hard to get to the meat of the issue if the issue is being misrepresented. First we need to properly define the issue (spying by coercive authority, not snooping by grandma), and then we can get to the meat of it.

Re:Stop calling it snooping (1)

intermodal (534361) | about a year ago | (#44061821)

I'm not sure the public is mature enough to engage in this conversation without obfuscating, weaselly words. Not quite as unable to do so as the government, but on average, the public is woefully ignorant of both their rights and of their importance.

Re:Stop calling it snooping (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44062135)

did u mean impotence?

Re:Stop calling it snooping (1)

intermodal (534361) | about a year ago | (#44062867)

Well, since I was referring to the constitutional protection of their rights, both importance and impotence would be appropriate here.

Re:Stop calling it snooping (1)

tragedy (27079) | about a year ago | (#44063041)

"Snooping" is when your harmless 80-year-old neighbor peers out between the blinds to see who you've invited over to visit. The term "snooping" implies harmlessness,

Sure, harmless. Because the "harmless" 80-year-old neighbour has never been a witness at a witch trial or been an informant for the Stasi. For that matter, even outside those extremes, you're acting like "harmless" snooping gossips - especially those with overactive imaginations - have never turned communities against people, destroyed marriages, etc.

Re:Stop calling it snooping (1)

mpe (36238) | about a year ago | (#44063639)

"Snooping" is when your harmless 80-year-old neighbor peers out between the blinds to see who you've invited over to visit. The term "snooping" implies harmlessness, whereas government (and its fundamental tool of physical force) is anything but harmless.
What government does is called spying, because government is a coercive authority, not an equal.


Except in the smallest of countries "government" spies tend not to be one monolithic entity. Even within the same "agency". India is certainly big enough to have all sorts of complex politics within it's spying groups. They also tend not to care too much about the security of data they gather, unless it concerns them or their "friends". As well as freely sharing information with "friends", ("friends of friends", "friends of friends of friends" and so on).

Offshore (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44060769)

They will have a database full of Techsupport calls and emails from 1 guy but using 50 diferent account names.

Privitize It! (3, Funny)

tapspace (2368622) | about a year ago | (#44060811)

The government is inefficient. That's why, in the US, we've privitized our spying apparatus!

Re:Privitize It! (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#44061683)

What can be privatized can be outsourced. Much ITC related outsourcing goes to India. Lately there has been a trend of Indian firms hiring Americans to do work for them. It is possible that by privatizing and outsourcing technology related spying, things could come full circle and have Americans spying on Americans again, like nature intended.

Is this a great country, or what?

Typical international knockoffs (2)

dkleinsc (563838) | about a year ago | (#44060847)

We should be buying the more effective American version! Even if it costs 15-20 times as much, it's worth it.

Outsourcing Concern (4, Interesting)

TheAngryMob (49125) | about a year ago | (#44060861)

So, does this mean that the Indian Government will get to see everything that's outsourced to India, including US Government contracts?

Basically, any corrupt Indian official (which apparently, there are more than a few) with access can sell trade and/or government secrets from any outsourced company.

Way to set the standard NSA.

Re:Outsourcing Concern (4, Funny)

SoldierII (2785237) | about a year ago | (#44060903)

I am surprised the NSA has not outsourced USA snooping on private citizens to India, perhaps soon enough or next budget cut...

Re:Outsourcing Concern (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44061225)

As if the NSA will get a budget cut. They would just have to go tell the politicians what they know and they will never have a bussines cut. There is without a doubt, no politician that has not done something they don't want to be known. Either be it 100s of speeding violations which would be easy to track with phone metadata or certain naughty sites tha would not be beneficial for somebody that wants to get elected again.

Re:Outsourcing Concern (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44060991)

Because US officials aren't corrupt, they are just following orders.

Yeah.

Re:Outsourcing Concern (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#44062179)

Because US officials aren't corrupt, they are just following orders.

By remarkable coincidence, the US and India learned their tricks from the same source.

Govt fears people who can think out of the box (1)

NewYork (1602285) | about a year ago | (#44060867)

Govt fears people who can think out of the box.

Re:Govt fears people who can think out of the box (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about a year ago | (#44063977)

Before we start worrying about thinking outside the box, lets try thinking first, inside or out.

Re:Govt fears people who can think out of the box (1)

NewYork (1602285) | about a year ago | (#44089647)

Any type of hegemony will have awkward repercussions and collateral damage.

No surprise (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44060971)

This seems par for the course from the poop eating monkeys that are Indians. Maybe they should take a break from having 14 smelly children and shitting in the streets to contemplate their awful society.

India has arrived! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44060995)

Nothing says a nation has arrived in the first world as succinctly as ubiquitous surveillence!

Yes, the snap should hurt. Learn dammit. (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about a year ago | (#44061009)

"Should we do this?"

"Well, the US does. Oh, if you catch a tax cheat, don't forget to waterboard."

self fulfilling prophecy (4, Insightful)

hurwak-feg (2955853) | about a year ago | (#44061011)

The irony of governments paranoid enough to spy on their own people because they are out to get them is that the spying will make the people out to get them. It seems the adversarial relationship between government and citizens (subjects?) is often strengthened (as in creates further conflict) by the entity with the influence to create a more cooperative relationship. Having a more cooperative attitude and doing whats best for the state is what will keep governments stable and in power. The mindset of the government officials making these decisions seems like the frame of mind someone unfortunate enough to be inflicted with Paranoid Schizophrenia would have. This raises the question of how to we prevent paranoid people from getting into government roles?

this is quite different (4, Funny)

nimbius (983462) | about a year ago | (#44061031)

than the NSA scandal currently sweeping the states. You see, India is under constant threat of terror attacks from surrounding nations and rogue militants that hate its freedom. in order to combat them india needs a system like this, and despite its concerning appearance poses no threat to law abiding citizens. Im sure if you ask anyone involved they can confirm it has already stopped numerous terror attacks.

the United states however...is under constant....hm....

The difference is we told a newspaper. so thats different. also, if you took the time to read the article, this surveillance system is in India, and not in America. so that too is a different thing that makes this not the same. Also we dont call it the NSA.

Re:this is quite different (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about a year ago | (#44064117)

I didn't think of it that way, India is in a cold war with China (they have disputed shared borders and such), and is next to Pakistan, who is not always friendly. The US needs to worry about invasion from Canada or Mexico...

"Sikh and Tyred" of the Surveillance (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44061087)

This will only be used against Sikhs who bow not to the RSS, BJP, VHP, Shiv Sena and the like.

Disclaimer: No, I am not a Pakistani,

bi2nat3h (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44061163)

PROBLEMS WITHI flaws in the BSD

That's not factually true. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44061185)

There was a public discussion, it was held in the display department.

Special Interests (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44061231)

In that kind of environment, special interest groups can operate with impunity... you need a paper trail, you need fingerprints, you need faces and you need warrants. Another alternative is everyone is entitled to the information and the population adjusts to this new way of doing things.

Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44061289)

Really? does that work both ways? I'd like to know what they do with my tax money.

Ya think snooping is bad..try this.. (0)

SuperCharlie (1068072) | about a year ago | (#44061447)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8598159.stm [bbc.co.uk]
Around 4/2010 I believe..

India is launching a new census in which every person aged over 15 will be photographed and fingerprinted to create a biometric national database.

And from the comments..

I think it is good that we are creating the national database of all our citizens. This will help maintain law and order, minimise crimes and help in locating people responsible for crimes. This will also ensure government benefits reach everybody and we will know who is left out. It will help individuals in getting house or land registrations, opening bank accounts and getting employment easier. These things usually take a lot of time because of background checks and the numerous documents required. I think this is a great job that the government is doing. Sandeep Singh, Bangalore, India

Re:Ya think snooping is bad..try this.. (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#44062199)

India is launching a new census in which every person aged over 15 will be photographed and fingerprinted to create a biometric national database.

We basically have that here, except it's more like 17 or 18. Can't do shit without a government-issued photo ID, and who believes that all that data isn't copied from the states directly to the feds?

Re:Ya think snooping is bad..try this.. (1)

mpe (36238) | about a year ago | (#44063819)

India is launching a new census in which every person aged over 15 will be photographed and fingerprinted to create a biometric national database.
And from the comments..
I think it is good that we are creating the national database of all our citizens. This will help maintain law and order, minimise crimes and help in locating people responsible for crimes. This will also ensure government benefits reach everybody and we will know who is left out. It will help individuals in getting house or land registrations, opening bank accounts and getting employment easier. These things usually take a lot of time because of background checks and the numerous documents required. I think this is a great job that the government is doing.


Except that gathering such data can create all sorts of opportunities for criminals. Since no country in history, AFAIK, has managed to keep criminals out of actual law enforcement what chance is there of ensuring that everyone involved in such a census is honest?

But just wait.. (3, Interesting)

tekrat (242117) | about a year ago | (#44061923)

When China implements the exact same system, the US will criticize it as a human rights violation. And when China decides it also wants to spy on US citizens, the US will call it "hacking".

Hey, NSA... you see what you've done? You've made it so that the very idea of privacy seems 'illegal" now somehow, that if you want privacy, you must be trying to hide something, so now, everyone in the world will want to snoop on everyone else in the world.

Do you see what you've done? You've proven that Ted Kaczynski was *right*.

It is a coup, it is Treason, it is tyranny (2)

lew2048 (2571805) | about a year ago | (#44062049)

Our government has rewritten the fundamental agreement between We, the People and itself. The rewrite changes the fundamentals of how our system of We, the People and government works. It did so in secret. That is a coup. The rewrite makes our government sovereign. The Constitution acknowledges that We, the People, are sovereign. Thus, the coup is also Treason. The US government is now the most powerful government in history, as it has detailed blackmail information on all of its own citizens and many citizens around the world. No entity possessing any modicum of power has remained un-corrupted in all of human history, and we can be confident that the NSA and US gov will not be the first. Intelligence analysts do not evaluate 'intent', they evaluate 'capabilities', as 'intent' can change in a moment. Our government has the capability to be the most tyrannical in history. I know of no entity that has walked away from such an opportunity. If we all don't get really excited about this and start acting like a complete crazy, our gov will finish this coup, and many of us will find ourselves in the gulag they have prepared. Given how they treated something as insignificant as OWS, we can expect a lot of killings when the real protests get going. This is now a contest of who is willing to take more damage : them to their legitimacy as rulers or We, the People, in deaths on the streets. I am looking for a bookie that will take bets on the number of people here in the US that will be killed by authorities in the first year of protests on this issue. But that assumes protests, and the propaganda machine is so good in this country ...

It's all Trovicor Monitoring Center.... (1)

sgt_doom (655561) | about a year ago | (#44062341)

....they sell to a bunch of countries, supposedly over 160, including China, Iran, Bahrain, Syria, the USA and India, and then each country simply tweaks it a mite and calls it by a different name, but it's still the Trovicor Monitoring Center, the state-of-the-art in automated intel platforms!

Re:It's all Trovicor Monitoring Center.... (1)

mpe (36238) | about a year ago | (#44063697)

....they sell to a bunch of countries, supposedly over 160, including China, Iran, Bahrain, Syria, the USA and India, and then each country simply tweaks it a mite and calls it by a different name

Given that there are only around 200 countries there can't be many not on the list.

World transformation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44064291)

I suppose the English-speaking cunts/magicians/pirates/kamikazes keep trying to turn ONU from a union of women into a witch-sabbath. What is surprising is that India has been a part of Occident and English-speaking for a very long time. As they say in that at-the-time-most-expensive-science-fiction-asian-movie I saw in London (first and only time I have ever been me and myself in a cinema movie), Enthiran, they probably followed Einstein's advice, and stayed with sticks and stones in orther to save time.

World transformation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44064431)

It seems the English-speaking cunts/magicians/pirates/kamikazes 2.0 are trying to turn ONU from a union of women into a witch-sabbath (looked it up in the Collins and the translation seems very appropiate). And I suppose it is quite strange since India has been a part of Occident and English-speaking for a very long time. Following that at-the-time-most-expensive-asian-science-fiction-movie a saw in London, Enthiran, they probably followed Einstein's advice and kept with sticks and stones in order to get experience for the future.

Survelience State (2, Insightful)

nickmh (2496180) | about a year ago | (#44064619)

Not many seem to get how close to tyranny we are getting! The next economic crisis will probably finish democracy and any semblance of individual freedom off. The collective is gaining ground aided by the state. All we'll end up is one collective competing against the other. And it’ll all be for the "Common good". When you manage to get the focus of individuals onto the "common good". Any denial of individuality and freedom/s can be justified. Not long now tick tick tick.....

Re:Survelience State (1)

Pav (4298) | about a year ago | (#44077729)

Naomi Wolf's book End of America has been coming true... she covers the ten steps that need to happen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0LvtQAQ6sc [youtube.com]

Intercept e-mail (1)

manu0601 (2221348) | about a year ago | (#44067019)

How do they intercept e-mail for people that use US-based ISP like gmail? Do they have a deal with gmail to have direct access like the NSA does?
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