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US Charges Edward Snowden With Espionage

timothy posted about a year ago | from the hey-the-paperwork-takes-a-few-weeks dept.

Crime 442

cold fjord writes "Further developments in the controversy engulfing Edward Snowden and the NSA. From the Washington Post: "Federal prosecutors have filed a sealed criminal complaint against Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who leaked a trove of documents about top-secret surveillance programs, and the United States has asked Hong Kong to detain him on a provisional arrest warrant,... Snowden was charged with espionage, theft and conversion of government property ... The complaint was filed in the Eastern District of Virginia, a jurisdiction where Snowden's former employer, Booz Allen Hamilton, is headquartered, and a district with a long track record in prosecuting cases with national security implications...it is thought that he is still in the Chinese territory. Hong Kong has its own legislative and legal systems but ultimately answers to Beijing, under the so-called "one country, two systems" arrangement. The leaks have sparked national and international debates about the secret powers of the NSA to infringe on the privacy of both Americans and foreigners. Officials from President Obama down have said they welcomed the opportunity to explain the importance of the programs, and the safeguards they say are built into them. Skeptics, including some in Congress, have said the NSA has assumed power to soak up data about Americans that were never intended under the law."""

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Didn't need to be the NSA (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44074865)

To know that's what was going to happen.

Re:Didn't need to be the NSA (3, Funny)

ackthpt (218170) | about a year ago | (#44074977)

To know that's what was going to happen.

Still, I draped a thread over a string I saw running through the neighborhood and tied it to my own tin can and heard pretty much that.

Re:Didn't need to be the NSA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44074997)

you know, I'm really upset and concerned about spying on me because I feel it violates my 4th amendment rights and is a slippery slope, but I'm relatively indifferent to spying on foreigners. Isn't that the point of the CIA/NSA anyway? so, while I could believe Snowden's claim that he revealed the domestic stuff because of concern over our citizenry, there's no reason for the other stuff other than to be a d!ck / counter spy himself. and now he's harboring with the chinese, hmm? we'll see how that extradition process goes.

Re:Didn't need to be the NSA (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075047)

but I'm relatively indifferent to spying on foreigners.

Even foreigners have rights. If we're not at war with them and the countries they live in very likely aren't going to harm the US, they should not be spying on anyone, and should also have to prove that the individuals they wish to spy on are most likely dangerous.

Re:Didn't need to be the NSA (4, Insightful)

X0563511 (793323) | about a year ago | (#44075189)

Yea well, if the NSA doesn't have a positive ID on you (and they don't try very hard) you get the foreigner rules applied [eff.org] to you.

Enjoy.

Re:Didn't need to be the NSA (4, Insightful)

Em Adespoton (792954) | about a year ago | (#44075291)

Yea well, if the NSA doesn't have a positive ID on you (and they don't try very hard) you get the foreigner rules applied [eff.org] to you.

Enjoy.

Plus, I take it from GP's stance that you don't mind at all if foreigners (most of the world) are spying on you, even if that involves foreign intelligence agencies sharing such wide-net intel with the FBI, Customs, and Secret Service (or Homeland Security) on request.

So even if you aren't considered a foreigner due to them not being able to guarantee you're actually a US citizen, this is still a bad precedent to set.

Re:Didn't need to be the NSA (5, Insightful)

Luckyo (1726890) | about a year ago | (#44075245)

And it's okay, because many foreigners are equally indifferent to your rights as well.

Which leads to the current situation, where NSA outsources spying on you to foreign entities, who in turn outsource spying on their citizens to NSA. Result: you have NSA have all the spy data on yourself, through this outsourcing. It's awesome just how your selfish assholery comes and bites you square in your face. And you still remain ignorant of it.

Re:Didn't need to be the NSA (1)

Dahamma (304068) | about a year ago | (#44075309)

Except their definition of "foreign spying" was "51% confidence of foreign citizenship". Or as the Daily Show said - a COIN FLIP PLUS 1%.

To put that another way - if they just took Facebook's entire database, that would be 84% accurate in their collection, but still have collected everything Facebook has on all 150 million of its American customers, so it would technically be legal.

Re:Didn't need to be the NSA (1)

boundary (1226600) | about a year ago | (#44074999)

They knew you were going to say that.

Re:Didn't need to be the NSA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075061)

What? That the patsy would go down hard? They always do

I am still wondering who is pulling the puppet strings here.. There is just too much of a 'coincidence' that this guy 'slipped through' the vetting process, just 'happened upon' super-secret presentations, managed to sneak them out of their office in a thumb drive (btw, aren't USB ports secured in secret environments) and it all wraps up with 'gilligan' managing to conduct an interview with a foreign correspondent and sliping overseas...

C'mon, I am all for believing in the ingenuity of a high-school drop out, but this is just beyond all belief.

IMO, this is all a setup to pile another made-up scandal on the Dems to give the (woefully inadequate) gop a chance in the 2014 elections, but I'm funny like that

Re:Didn't need to be the NSA (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075127)

You clearly have never worked for the government. Don't blame malice when clearly incompetence is at work here.

Re:Didn't need to be the NSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075283)

yes I have, both direct hire and contract... direct hire was pretty mundane stuff, but the contract work was in relatively secure environments

this stinks to high heaven

Re:Didn't need to be the NSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075327)

The Government: If you think the problems we create are bad, wait until you see our solutions!!

Helping the NSA transcend to abundance thinking (1)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | about a year ago | (#44075185)

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2773253&cid=39629001 [slashdot.org]
"To start with the bottom line: the very computers that make the new NSA facilities possible mean that the NSA's formal purpose is essentially soon to be at an end. Nothing you or I say here will reverse that trend. The only issue is how soon the NSA as a whole recognizes that fact, and then how people there choose to deal with that reality. ..."

A further elaboration on that theme:
http://www.pdfernhout.net/on-dealing-with-social-hurricanes.html [pdfernhout.net]

The increase in global spying is only one technology-driven trend of many going on right now. Other ones have all sorts of implications. That is why we need better open source tools to help figure things out and make better decisions about what health is and how to shape healthy behavior with (as Lawrence Lessig said in Code 2.0) rules, norms, prices and architecture.
http://pcast.ideascale.com/a/dtd/The-need-for-FOSS-intelligence-tools-for-sensemaking-etc./76207-8319 [ideascale.com]

Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (5, Insightful)

hawguy (1600213) | about a year ago | (#44074893)

I thought that only those with something to hide needed privacy?

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (5, Insightful)

zlives (2009072) | about a year ago | (#44074907)

its to protect the innocent secret government programs that might become victims of false accusations.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (5, Insightful)

Rick Zeman (15628) | about a year ago | (#44074913)

I thought that only those with something to hide needed privacy?

Because:
Officials from President Obama down have said they welcomed the opportunity to explain the importance of the programs

Oh wait....

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (5, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about a year ago | (#44074927)

Because:
Officials from President Obama down have said they welcomed the opportunity to explain the importance of the programs...

But only to secret judges on secret courts.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (1)

ackthpt (218170) | about a year ago | (#44075009)

Because:
Officials from President Obama down have said they welcomed the opportunity to explain the importance of the programs...

But only to secret judges on secret courts.

...conducting hearings during a full moon in months with an 'R' in them.

suddenly the Committee pulled up to the curb in an arcane dodge dart and Bob 'The Atomic Carp' was heard to say, 'How arcane!!'

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (-1, Flamebait)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#44075225)

Because:
Officials from President Obama down have said they welcomed the opportunity to explain the importance of the programs...

But only to secret judges on secret courts.

Same story, different day. They are speaking publicly, but not everyone is listening, paying attention, or caring.

NSA director: Surveillance foiled 50 terror plots [usatoday.com]
FBI deputy director: NSA foiled NYC bombing plots [washingtonpost.com]
NSA director says surveillance foiled plot against Wall Street [komonews.com]

Intelligence officials last week disclosed some details on two thwarted attacks - one targeting the New York subway system, one to bomb a Danish newspaper office that had published the cartoon depictions of the Prophet Mohammad. Alexander and Sean Joyce, deputy director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, offered additional details on two other foiled plots, including one targeting Wall Street.

Under questioning, Joyce said the NSA was able to identify an extremist in Yemen who was in touch with an individual in Kansas City, Mo. They were able to identify co-conspirators and thwart a plot to bomb the New York Stock Exchange.

Joyce also said a terrorist financier inside the U.S. was identified and arrested in October 2007, thanks to a phone record provided by the NSA. The individual was making phone calls to a known designated terrorist group overseas.

It doesn't matter how much they disclose if you don't listen. Maybe they should send the stories to Wikileaks, maybe then it would get people's attention.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (1, Interesting)

hawguy (1600213) | about a year ago | (#44075329)

Because:
Officials from President Obama down have said they welcomed the opportunity to explain the importance of the programs...

But only to secret judges on secret courts.

Same story, different day. They are speaking publicly, but not everyone is listening, paying attention, or caring.

NSA director: Surveillance foiled 50 terror plots [usatoday.com]
FBI deputy director: NSA foiled NYC bombing plots [washingtonpost.com]
NSA director says surveillance foiled plot against Wall Street [komonews.com]

Intelligence officials last week disclosed some details on two thwarted attacks - one targeting the New York subway system, one to bomb a Danish newspaper office that had published the cartoon depictions of the Prophet Mohammad. Alexander and Sean Joyce, deputy director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, offered additional details on two other foiled plots, including one targeting Wall Street.

Under questioning, Joyce said the NSA was able to identify an extremist in Yemen who was in touch with an individual in Kansas City, Mo. They were able to identify co-conspirators and thwart a plot to bomb the New York Stock Exchange.

Joyce also said a terrorist financier inside the U.S. was identified and arrested in October 2007, thanks to a phone record provided by the NSA. The individual was making phone calls to a known designated terrorist group overseas.

It doesn't matter how much they disclose if you don't listen. Maybe they should send the stories to Wikileaks, maybe then it would get people's attention.

Both of those specific instances were calls made overseas, and many people are ok with the NSA looking at international calls. So remind me again why they are watching all of our domestic calls? If they see a call to a foreign terrorist organization, they can use a good old fashioned court order to get the phone records from the domestic end of the call. No need for the NSA to collect all of the data.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075357)

Maybe people would listen if they actually made a truthful statement once in a while.

Sheesh. Is there any state cock you wouldn't suck?

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (5, Insightful)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about a year ago | (#44074969)

Obama Obama Obama. Enough with this partisan nonsense. Watch the documentary 'Enemy of the State', what 16 years old now or more, this surveillance is nothing new. You don't get to call yourselves the land of the free when you're being monitored around the clock in case you might say or do something upsetting to your betters. And no I don't care if terrorists are the excuse, if you're going to put the USA on a pedestal, hold yourselves to a higher standard than totalitarians.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (2)

hondo77 (324058) | about a year ago | (#44075277)

Enemy of the State [imdb.com] was a documentary? And all this time I thought Will Smith and Gene Hackman were actors...

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (1)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about a year ago | (#44075293)

Who knew, all this time the tinfoil hats were right.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (5, Insightful)

hawguy (1600213) | about a year ago | (#44075285)

Obama Obama Obama. Enough with this partisan nonsense. Watch the documentary 'Enemy of the State', what 16 years old now or more, this surveillance is nothing new. You don't get to call yourselves the land of the free when you're being monitored around the clock in case you might say or do something upsetting to your betters. And no I don't care if terrorists are the excuse, if you're going to put the USA on a pedestal, hold yourselves to a higher standard than totalitarians.

I think the Obama bashing is coming out because Obama said he was going to bring about change that America needs and he even spoke out specifically against secret spying on citizens. No one (well few) think that a Republican in the Whitehouse would be any better since nearly all of the opposition against the Patriot Act renewals has come from the democrats.

http://www.cfr.org/us-election-2008/obamas-speech-woodrow-wilson-center/p13974 [cfr.org]

That means no more illegal wire-tapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are. And it is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists. The FISA court works. The separation of powers works. Our Constitution
works. We will again set an example for the world that the law is not subject to the whims of stubborn rulers, and that justice is not arbitrary.

This Administration acts like violating civil liberties is the way to enhance our security. It is not. There are no short-cuts to protecting America, and that is why the fifth part of my strategy is doing the hard and patient work to secure a more resilient homeland.

Yet not only is he aware of the secret spying programs, he is actively defending them.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (3, Insightful)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about a year ago | (#44075323)

Yet not only is he aware of the secret spying programs, he is actively defending them.

If it had happend on the watch of any previous president they would have done the same thing. The game isn't us against the terrorists, it's us against the new aristocracy.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44074925)

It is ironic right? That is what Snowden has been complaining about all along.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (3, Funny)

icebike (68054) | about a year ago | (#44074929)

That and future winners of the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian award, which some future President will be forced to give this guy.
I'm betting you could run a pretty good election campaign just on that alone, because the demonizing isn't going to well except among the circle jerks in DC.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (1)

DaveV1.0 (203135) | about a year ago | (#44075013)

bwahahahah. Oh, you post is soooo funny. I almost believed you were serious instead of a troll.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about a year ago | (#44075111)

I'm betting you could run a pretty good election campaign just on that alone, because the demonizing isn't going to well except among the circle jerks in DC.

Get of the slashdot technerd bubble and I think you will be amazed at just how well the demonization is going. Yesterday I dropped by Little green footballs [littlegreenfootballs.com] a blog famous for doing a 180 on islamaphobia a few years back and calling the bigots out for what they are.

Turns out those guys fucking hate Snowden. This surveillance shit is ridiculous bordering on evil to anyone like us, but the people who aren't like us make up a majority of the country and they just can't grasp the implications.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (2)

X0563511 (793323) | about a year ago | (#44075219)

Point this to them [eff.org] , see if that helps change their tune.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (1)

icebike (68054) | about a year ago | (#44075301)

Anything that might sully Obama, the footballers will hate.

Broaden your horizons.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (5, Insightful)

MrEricSir (398214) | about a year ago | (#44074941)

I thought that only those with something to hide needed privacy?

You mean like the Orwellian surveillance program the government has been hiding?

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (1)

msauve (701917) | about a year ago | (#44074983)

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength


(the proper all caps invoked /.'s lameness filter)

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (-1, Troll)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#44074981)

Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? I thought that only those with something to hide needed privacy?

There is almost certainly classified information to protect in the case.

Sealing Court Records and Proceedings: A Pocket Guide [fjc.gov]

Specific Record and Proceeding Issues

Some sealing issues have arisen frequently enough for case law about them to be developed. Some types of information are understood to be properly protected by sealing, such as national security secrets. Some proceedings are understood to be properly held in secret, such as grand jury proceedings. The identities of some parties, such as juveniles, are properly protected by sealing or redaction. The following are summaries of the case law pertaining to several such issues.

National Security

On rare occasions, adjudication of a case requires presenting to the court classified information, which is information an intelligence agency has determined could result in damage to national security if it were disclosed to the wrong person.20 The Executive Branch decides access and storage limits for classified information.21 The public is given access to cases involving classified information by redacting the classified information from the public record.22

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (5, Insightful)

SJHiIlman (2957043) | about a year ago | (#44075095)

There is almost certainly classified information to protect in the case.

I don't think that's the point. The point is that a number of people (not pointing at anyone in particular) have said something along the lines of, "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." These same people would probably argue that while the government is trying to hide something here, that hiding things isn't necessarily bad, which is inconsistent.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (3, Insightful)

runeghost (2509522) | about a year ago | (#44075149)

So, is the government going to go after the "anonymous" officials who spoke about the case without authorization? That, plus the sealed complaints make these charges against Snowden rather ironic.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (1)

DaveV1.0 (203135) | about a year ago | (#44074987)

Because it contains classified information.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (1)

SpaceLifeForm (228190) | about a year ago | (#44075253)

Front page was leaked apparently.

Link [documentcloud.org]

Not much there.

Re:Why is it a sealed criminal complaint? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075303)

Was it because they have evidence he did espionage, but that it was all under their orders?

Big summer coming (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#44074899)

With the trial of Private Manning underway [washingtonpost.com] , and Snowden now indicted, it looks like it will be a summer full of heated discussion.

Here is an overlooked discussion ... (1)

perpenso (1613749) | about a year ago | (#44075089)

With the trial of Private Manning underway, and Snowden now indicted, it looks like it will be a summer full of heated discussion.

Here is a discussion topic that seems to be somewhat overlooked at the moment.

Why did a low ranking army private like Manning have access to the high level info that he leaked? Why did a low level private contractor like Snowden have access to the high level info that he leaked? Sure an army private or low level contractor may need access to some secret info to do their jobs but both seem to have had access to or knowledge of way too much.

Re:Here is an overlooked discussion ... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075355)

With the trial of Private Manning underway, and Snowden now indicted, it looks like it will be a summer full of heated discussion.

Here is a discussion topic that seems to be somewhat overlooked at the moment.

Why did a low ranking army private like Manning have access to the high level info that he leaked? Why did a low level private contractor like Snowden have access to the high level info that he leaked? Sure an army private or low level contractor may need access to some secret info to do their jobs but both seem to have had access to or knowledge of way too much.

Because if you want to know the truth, it's the grunts who have to spend all day long with their hands down in the dirty stuff.

The brass are "too important" to be bothered with such details. They only really care about the Executive Summaries. Plus, they're usually part of the problem, so don't expect them to rush to be part of the solution.

Not News (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44074901)

We were no expecting USA to hail him as a hero obviously. It is hilarious though how he exposed Obama's lies today about the NSA not being capable of spying on citizens though.
I hope if in this country Zimmerman can get a public and (hopefully) fair trial, then Snowden should as well.

Re:Not News (1)

noh8rz10 (2716597) | about a year ago | (#44075023)

who Zimmerman? the guy who shot trayvon martin? the stand your ground guy? that's a weird comparison.

Re:Not News (2)

amiga3D (567632) | about a year ago | (#44075071)

It is kind of weird. A murder trial in Florida compared to someone outing the NSA. I bet Snowden does a lot more time than Zimmerman even if Zimmerman gets convicted. Murder isn't nearly as big a deal as telling secrets.

Re:Not News (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#44075353)

Murder isn't nearly as big a deal as telling secrets.

You break a code, you sink a battle fleet. It happened to Japan at Midway in WW2 [youtube.com] . If a war had broken out with the Soviet Union, it might very well have happened to the US fleet [trutv.com] . Breaking the Enigma code may very well have been what prevented Britain from being starved into submission in WW2 by the German U-boats.

It isn't a trivial thing.

Should Have be Charged With Treason (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44074911)

The reason prosecutors charged him with espionage is because its a much easier case to make, but this realy is a textbook case of treason. Just look at the damn US Constitution

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." If Snowden hasn't committed treason using this definition, I don't know what is then.

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (3, Funny)

Spy Handler (822350) | about a year ago | (#44074951)

is that you, Dick? How's the shotgun?

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (5, Insightful)

Rene S. Hollan (1943) | about a year ago | (#44074973)

If Obama's arming of al-Qaeda friendly rebels in Syria isn't "adhering to their enemies, giving them aid...", I don't know what is.

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44074995)

Only if you consider American citizens enemies of the American government.

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (2)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | about a year ago | (#44075087)

Haven't you been paying attention? They are

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075369)

If not for American citizens, there'd be a lot less stupid people in this country.

(Admittedly, I don't know if the ratio of stupid:non-stupid would change.)

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075003)

And by 'enemies' you mean the American people.

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (0)

amiga3D (567632) | about a year ago | (#44075105)

Only the American people that work and pay taxes. All the others are okay, they know if they put up a fuss their checks will get cut off. The bastards that are working are just too independent.

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075007)

Then you definitely don't know what it is.

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (3)

Cracked Pottery (947450) | about a year ago | (#44075049)

You apparently don't know what it is, then. You can't even identify what "enemy" is being comforted. Perhaps the enemy is the American people. There is no war declared that permits the legal definition of an enemy, and not much evidence that the spying has any actual effectiveness at combating terrorism. It is massive surveillance of all forms of electronic communication. Professional terrorists are unlikely to use communication that will be intercepted in this way. The information will almost certainly eventually be used for criminal prosecutions, probably including everything from drug to copyright violations.

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075051)

Snowden swore an oath when he took his security clearance. It is essentially the same one sworn by soldiers.

The first thing he does is swear to protect the constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic. And finally to follow the orders of his chain of command and perform the duties of his position.

Snowden was put in a position where following the last part of the oath would violate the first part, and following the first part would violate the last part.

And he chose his duty to the constitution and the citizens it protects over the dictates of his chain of command. And that makes him a hero.

Actually according to that line of thought.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075233)

He should gladly take the bullet for treason, then have a medal pinned on his chest for both dying for his country and outing the individuals involved. Who in turn should recieve the same punishment sans the medal.

But we all know that isn't going to happen.

cute: Captcha was 'sainted'. Rather fitting for one dying for a cause.

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (2)

Todd Palin (1402501) | about a year ago | (#44075065)

The problem with treason is that it sounds like it might be a political crime, which makes it more likely for a nation to give him political asylum. This really complicates extradition. Of course, it is a political crime, but the US Government doesn't want to go there right now.

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075101)

Yep, because the Citizens of the United States are the enemies of the U.S. Government. Snowden knowingly gave them aid and comfort.

Hell, most of the complainers are terrorists anyhow.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/21/official-says-water-complaints-act-of-terrorism/2445071/

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (2)

SJHiIlman (2957043) | about a year ago | (#44075107)

I'd say our constitution-trampling government is aiding and comforting our enemies more than Snowden.

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075113)

He exposed crimes against the American people perpetrated by the US government. He is the exact opposite of a traitor.

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075179)

He exposed crimes against the American people perpetrated by the US government. He is the exact opposite of a traitor.

He's more of a patriot than the whole of Congress and the president.

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (1)

niftymitch (1625721) | about a year ago | (#44075119)

The reason prosecutors charged him with espionage is because its a much easier case to make, but this realy is a textbook case of treason. Just look at the damn US Constitution

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." If Snowden hasn't committed treason using this definition, I don't know what is then.

Who is the US engaged in war with that he has given aid and comfort to?

The war against drugs, is a war against Americans sure... So all of America.
Is it possible to commit treason when exposing violations of constitutional law?
The fundamental issue is US law sits on a foundation of honesty and transparent prosecution of the law.

A truth is the issue of meta data in these large quantities is powerful as heck.
In good and honest hands, no problem. In the hands of bad guys, big problem.
The good guys today should establish controls and laws to keep this tool set from the hand of the bad guys.

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | about a year ago | (#44075123)

The only way this is treason is if the American public are enemies.

The real traitors are those who are giving aid to enemies of the US (Mexican drug cartels, arming Syrian rebels, etc.)

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075195)

Congratulations, you are the 15th person to make this exact reply.
Moderators please mod all these duplicate comments to -1 Redundant because they all are saying the exact same thing!!

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (1)

runeghost (2509522) | about a year ago | (#44075163)

Then you're an idiot. Who are the "enemies" in this case supposed to be? The Chinese government that President Obama just had a meeting with? The American public that's being spied on? The whole world?

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075227)

Bullshit.

Snowden is a hero. Yeah, he went against the will of the government, but he sure as hell is fighting for the people.

Re:Should Have be Charged With Treason (1)

gmuslera (3436) | about a year ago | (#44075237)

What you call "United States"? The corporations, their puppet government, or the population? For the last option i'd say that is a hero, and others that work for NSA are the traitors. But you probably think that the ones that fought against England in 1776 or against slavery in 1860 were traitors too.

We saw this coming, but... (0)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | about a year ago | (#44074919)

We knew this was going to happen, since I don't think they could have done otherwise. The question is what the punishment is likely to be and how is the public going to react to the sentence given?

Legally what Snowden did was wrong, but from time to time the government needs its dirty laundry aired, so that is can be kept accountable. The matter is not a question of whether the government needed to do what it did, but whether it was in line with what the constitution permits. By having a general idea of the actions of the government, we can at least have a healthy debate to know whether they are approaching things in the right way. Knowing the details of each case is not needed, on the condition someone is holding the watchers accountable.

Re:We saw this coming, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44074939)

"Legally what Snowden did was wrong,"
Yep, because US law is a religion.
It also declares marrying little girls as wrong.

Other religions like ancient hebrewism (Deuteronomy 22 28-29, 2 samual 12 (little lamb))
and the muslim religion
don't think that marrying little girls is wrong.
Ancient hebrewism has the man that rapes a young girl keep her.

Re:We saw this coming, but... (1)

amiga3D (567632) | about a year ago | (#44075115)

"Ancient hebrewism has the man that rapes a young girl keep her."

You break it, you bought it.

Re:We saw this coming, but... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075017)

Obama could have said:

"I just learned of the existence of the NSA and its spying programs from the news. I'm shocked, SHOCKED! I'm going to pardon Snowden and clean this up!"

Re:We saw this coming, but... (1)

amiga3D (567632) | about a year ago | (#44075125)

I have to say that if he had I would have died from shock. For any figurehead in the oval office to stray from the script is unthinkable regardless of party affiliation.

What, no computer fraud? (1)

Cyberax (705495) | about a year ago | (#44074971)

What, no computer fraud? I wonder how the prosecutor missed that - he could have accused him of HACKING and CYBERTERRORISM!!!!11111!

Re:What, no computer fraud? (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#44075019)

Don't give them ideas, or they might amend the charges.

They are going for the big stuff and things that l (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about a year ago | (#44075203)

They are going for the big stuff and things that let the bypass some rights and parts of the courts system.

Petition to pardon Snowden (5, Informative)

Todd Palin (1402501) | about a year ago | (#44075025)

FYI, the petition to pardon Snowden is just a few thousand short of the 100,000 mark as of midday on Friday. There is still time to sign. Probably a waste of time, but it might be worth it. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD [whitehouse.gov]

Re:Petition to pardon Snowden (5, Insightful)

amiga3D (567632) | about a year ago | (#44075139)

That's not the petition to pardon Snowden, that's the volunteer list for hidden cameras in your dwelling.

Re:Petition to pardon Snowden (2)

Darkness404 (1287218) | about a year ago | (#44075271)

Hell, it doesn't matter anymore. The Obama administration has declared anyone who doesn't agree with them to be enemies. If you're not standing in the welfare line and praising Obama or blindly "supporting the troops" you're the enemy. The past few administrations have made that abundantly clear that your freedoms only exist to praise the state and dissent will be punished.

There is no rule of law anymore, no matter what they can violate your privacy, your liberty or even send in a drone to kill you. No jury, no trial, no oversight.

Re:Petition to pardon Snowden (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075289)

fuck him

get the ... ahh fuck it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075029)

I was going to politely ask the feds to get the fuck off my lawn but it seems they have already bugged it.

Congress skeptical? (1)

Ogive17 (691899) | about a year ago | (#44075033)

What bull shit, they agreed to it and have done so every year since 2001.

Typical politicking now, trying to distance themselves from any controversy so they get re-elected. They should be the ones charged and throw in front of a firing squad.

Sign the White House petition! (4, Informative)

chalker (718945) | about a year ago | (#44075037)

Just in case you weren't aware, there is a White House petition to pardon Snowden that is almost at the 100K signature threshold:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD [whitehouse.gov]

Re:Sign the White House petition! (4, Informative)

DirePickle (796986) | about a year ago | (#44075157)

Let me save you the wait. "However, consistent with the We the People Terms of Participation and our responses to similar petitions in the past, the White House declines comment on this petition because it requests a specific law enforcement action."

Re:Sign the White House petition! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075191)

oh boy. that'll help. I don't care if it reaches 10,000,000 signatures, it's not going to get anything more than a crafted response.

Re:Sign the White House petition! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075307)

We outnumber them 1000 to 1. Your stand on the matter is duly noted though.

Re:Sign the White House petition! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075375)

While I support this effort I have a feeling the Obama administration is going to either no-comment that one or print propaganda supporting the current regime while ignoring the question.

Double standards (5, Insightful)

damicatz (711271) | about a year ago | (#44075077)

Obama has openly admitting to planning to arm Al-Queda associated rebels in Syria. That is the DEFINITION of treason. Edward Snowden has not given anyone weapons. He has merely aired Obama's dirty laundry. If this country was run by the people rather than a bunch of plutocrats, Obama, Bush, Cheney, et. al would be on trial for crimes against humanity.

How people voted for this guy is beyond me. I knew Obama was a liar from day one. Democrats and republicans work for the same causes and the same people; any perceived differences are merely staged for the benefit of the American voters and never go deeper than the surface. It is classic divide and conquer and the end result is that this country is effectively run by a two-party dictatorship that stays in power by manipulating and rigging the elections to exclude competition and creating staged conflicts on trivial issues like gay marriage (which *IS* a trivial issue compared to the fact that this country is descending into a police state). When it comes to the things that matter, both parties act in lockstep and it is NOT to the benefit of the American people or to the cause of freedom. The only people the Republicrat party answers to is their corporate masters.

In the empire... (5, Interesting)

Darkness404 (1287218) | about a year ago | (#44075083)

In the empire of lies, truth is treason.
-Ron Paul

Re:In the empire... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075305)

Please.

Ron Paul is the biggest lying sack of shit of them all.

Lesson to be learned (5, Insightful)

EmagGeek (574360) | about a year ago | (#44075141)

Report a crime, go to jail.

The unlikely, but fair response (1)

gmuslera (3436) | about a year ago | (#44075155)

"The entire world charges US Government with espionage". Is time to UN and world organizations to show that have pants and stop being US government/corporations puppets. Or just everyone stop pretending, nothing of this have anything to do with justice, is just a wrong sign put on top of things that had nothing to do with that word.

Actions have consequences (0)

stevez67 (2374822) | about a year ago | (#44075171)

He'll get exactly what he deserves. All of the political rhetoric, bigotry, hyperbole and fanaticism aside, Snowden knew what he did was going to have live altering serious repercussions. He's not a hero nor is he the anti-Christ, but he dang sure is going to be made to pay a high price for what he did and he gets no sympathy from me.

Re:Actions have consequences (1)

sqrt(2) (786011) | about a year ago | (#44075335)

He'll live out the rest of his days in relative comfort and obscurity in a more enlightened corner of the world. Iceland already said they'd take him.

Secret known unknowns (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075243)

Somebody is secretly suspected
of breaking a secret law,
conceived in secret
by persons whose identities are largely kept secret.

Brought into law by a secret court,
comprising secret judges and secret attorneys,
the secret law
is now secretly applied
and a secret decision is made
to add a name to a secret list,
by a secret committee

- based on secret information
gathered by secret organisations
using secret rooms inside large corporations
with secret personnel and secret rooms full of equipment
while the boss says it's been secret from their 20,000 minions -

- or perhaps the secretly obtained information,
from secret informants,
secretly kidnapped
by secret agents
to be secretly tortured
in more secret locations
then secretly dumped back into civilisation -

to secretly send
a machine designed to fly in secret
operated by a secret young thug
who remains safely secreted away
and they secretly kill
a person who's identity is kept secret by pixels
for knowing that they are not killing in secret makes them
depressed and cry secretly to mum

When questioned, they just shrug and say: “Sorry, it's a secret”
or say it never happened, and if it did “Wow! This was a secret!”
then try to tell you their non existing secrets
that they never secretly had, (or maybe just a little on a Sunday afternoon)
foiled secret master plans
often created by their own secret clans
or secretly convene to create obvious lies
handily written by secret advisers
and secretly screened by secret psychologists

the secretive coward screams “I'm an apologist!”
“It's all necessarily secret, though I know not what nor why”
“Maybe I'm secretly payed to spew bile”
“Or perhaps I secretly posted to the world: I'm a hypocritical idiot!”
My nickname gives secrecy to post:
“I've no secrets to hide, see? So, you shouldn't have any of those”
“You who harbour secrets should be exposed,
Or it's obvious you've secretly done something wrong”

All for secret reasons
whose very existence is kept secret
for yet more reasons that must be kept secret
by politicians who claim to have secret relations with gods
willing to kill, maim or imprison the exposers of secrets
using secret juries
to secretly convict
with yet more invented secret accusations
that are kept secret from the accused within the courts!

And when the keepers of secrets have been proven to be liars
they say they'll secretly give a stern telling-off
to someone sworn to secrecy
by someone sworn to secrecy
in yet another secret location
and swear now they'll be good with the secrets, because of the laws they'll create
to stop themselves acting improperly in secret

Apparently, this is a reasonable level of transparency and judicial oversight in the year 2013.

If an empire falls in the forest... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075341)

Does it make a sound? [examiner.com]

Snowden is a complete moron. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44075267)

Regardless of whether you agree with his motives or not, I still think it's an idiot.

1) He told us something that everyone who cares already knows
2) Absolutely no important change will come as a result of his disclosure, except for perhaps the police state getting worse than it already is.

Essentially, he threw his entire life away for absolutely no reason. It's hard to get much more moronic than that.

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