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Microsoft Pushing Bing For Search In Schools, With Ad-Removal Hook

timothy posted about a year ago | from the why-can't-they-send-them-all? dept.

Advertising 158

rujholla writes "Microsoft has been trying to push Apple's iPad aside in favor of Surface tablets in schools, and now the Windows giant is looking to take on Google when it comes to search for students. Microsoft is including features such as allowing K-12 schools to remove advertisements from search results and enhanced privacy controls. Is this enough to beat the Google search quality edge? Or does that edge even still exist?"

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As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (4, Insightful)

gameboyhippo (827141) | about a year ago | (#44099481)

I think this is a good thing. Sure its a marketing tactic, but its a good one. By removing ads and perhaps having a more education focused Bing, students will be able to search for what they want without as much noise. Hopefully Google will do the same if they aren't already.

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (3, Insightful)

ericloewe (2129490) | about a year ago | (#44099523)

Where's the money for Google? Microsoft can sell all kinds of stuff after using this as a promotional tool. Google can only sell ads, and I don't see them reacting to this until it's proven to have made an impact worth countering.

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (1)

LordThyGod (1465887) | about a year ago | (#44099535)

Where's the money for Google? Microsoft can sell all kinds of stuff after using this as a promotional tool. Google can only sell ads, and I don't see them reacting to this until it's proven to have made an impact worth countering.

Google Apps accounts?

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (1)

jaseuk (217780) | about a year ago | (#44099551)

Google Apps / Office 365 are free in education anyway.

But.. What K12 student is going to purchase anything anyway?

Jason.

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (4, Insightful)

cdrudge (68377) | about a year ago | (#44099645)

But.. What K12 student is going to purchase anything anyway?

The K12 student isn't going to be purchasing all that much when they are using the school's computer. But when they go home and they go to bing.com do do their searching there, or they change the default search engine on the family computer because "that's what we use at school" then it opens Microsoft up for more visits. Plus down the road when those K12 students have graduated, get jobs, and then have money to spend, maybe they'll be hooked on Bing.

Or at least in theory that's how it's suppose to work. Didn't work all that well for Apple in the 80s and 90s.

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (3, Interesting)

bickerdyke (670000) | about a year ago | (#44099763)

But worked very well for MS. (and a few others)

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (3, Insightful)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | about a year ago | (#44099969)

But when they go home and they go to bing.com do do their searching there, or they change the default search engine on the family computer because "that's what we use at school" then it opens Microsoft up for more visits.

Oh yeah. Because that's what kids do. Use stuff they make them use at school on their free time.

Re: As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44100169)

Thats where I learnt to use Google. Until I used Google at school I use Yahoo at home.

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (1)

jaseuk (217780) | about a year ago | (#44100417)

Youtube for education requires a sign-up process for the school or destrict. You then have to add a cookie as a custom header. Assuming Microsoft do something similar then this will probably be tougher to do at home than installing an ad blocker add-on.

Jason..

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44100923)

Didn't work all that well for Apple in the 80s and 90s.

If you look at the rise of Apple over the past ten years, it was at least in part headed up by those 80s/90s kids hitting college and purchasing Macs for their studies. The Apple education program along with the iPod in the early 2000s proved to be a fantastic gateway drug.

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (4, Funny)

ozmanjusri (601766) | about a year ago | (#44099711)

Microsoft can sell all kinds of stuff after using this as a promotional tool.

It doesn't look like they'll be making money any time soon.

"Microsoft To Start Dumping Surface RT To Schools

It’s fair to say that Microsoft’s Surface didn’t get the reception the company was hoping for. The tablet debuted last October and tanked shortly thereafter, thanks to an overly ambitious price point, poor software selection, and the myriad issues surrounding Windows 8. "

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/159034-microsoft-unloading-surface-rt-units-at-199-offering-schools-major-discount [extremetech.com]

Those poor schoolkids - first they get Surface RTs dumped on them, now Bing? Microsoft should be prosecuted for child abuse!

Re: As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099931)

What a stupid comment. You should be demoted to Grade5.

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (1)

sliceoflife (2814511) | about a year ago | (#44099851)

Maybe keeping the competition at bay? If Bing starts becoming more successful Google will lose visitors and therefore revenue. Not all business is about the +, sometimes its about avoiding the -

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (1, Insightful)

wvmarle (1070040) | about a year ago | (#44100033)

Kids in school get used to Google, will use it at home. Potential for money for Google.

Kids in school get used to Bing, will use it at home. No potential money for Google.

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44100087)

Remember kids, Binging is bad, mkay?

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (1)

LordThyGod (1465887) | about a year ago | (#44100143)

Kids in school get used to Google, will use it at home. Potential for money for Google.

Kids in school get used to Bing, will use it at home. No potential money for Google.

Or kids use xyz in school, associate it with unpleasantness, and never use it again.

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (1)

wvmarle (1070040) | about a year ago | (#44100353)

Not likely as most kids simply don't know better than what's being told to them by adults (primarily parents and teachers).

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (1)

aaronb1138 (2035478) | about a year ago | (#44099603)

Hey, I'm surprised ad free isn't an iron-clad requirement in schools, not because of the captive audience silliness, but because enough helicoptering whack jobs of parents haven't lost it over how much it prevents their ADHD (that's still the cool one, right?) from being successful.

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (2)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about a year ago | (#44099647)

Just have the school's IT admin install AdBlock, problem solved.

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (2)

arielCo (995647) | about a year ago | (#44099839)

From TFS:

remove advertisementsfrom search results

It would've been phrased better as "purely commercial search results", but you surely have done a search for facts that about (say) a health supplement; they offer to remove the scores of peddlers that'll plague your quest.

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (2)

canadiannomad (1745008) | about a year ago | (#44100701)

Just have the school's IT admin install AdBlock, problem solved.

Honestly I think this is the better solution. Replacing one search engine with another one without ads (is that going to be the new patentable suffix of 2013?) just gets rid of the ads on the search engine. Adding an ad blocker will improve the situation everywhere the student searches, and adds a level of security protection while they are at it.
Also would they be asking the schools to block Google? I would hope not, as that would probably break a lot of links in forum posts.
[Something you might find in a forum... [google.com] ]

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (1)

Joce640k (829181) | about a year ago | (#44099653)

There's billions and billions of extensions to add extra adverts to IE. Every IE user I know has at least a dozen of them installed.

But ... are you telling me there isn't a single IE add-on to remove adverts, that it takes a special version of the browser from Microsoft to do that?

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (1)

gameboyhippo (827141) | about a year ago | (#44099675)

Not a special version of the browser, but rather a special version of Bing.

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44100035)

What's Bing?

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (2)

gameboyhippo (827141) | about a year ago | (#44100509)

Bing is the successor to Microsoft's MSN search tool. Here's a site that will allow you to compare bing to Google. http://www.bingiton.com/ [bingiton.com] . I still use Google since Google tends to get me to technical results faster, but Bing really isn't a bad search engine if you can get past the fact that its done by Microsoft.

Re:As much as we love to hate Microsoft... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44101059)

Let me bing that for you [letmebingthatforyou.com] .

Noise (2)

thegarbz (1787294) | about a year ago | (#44100313)

Noise is unwanted random data existing amidst the resulting dataset. Google's ads are not noise, they are segregated and in a differently coloured box.

I actually propose an opposing idea. Students should be exposed to adverts, and they should be told they are adverts. They should learn from this and then learn to recognise the difference between data and adverts.

By keeping our learning lives ad-free we lose the stimulus that teaches us to identify the ads.

Re:Noise (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44100429)

You're a grade A moron. Fucking android apologists.

Re:Noise (4, Insightful)

gameboyhippo (827141) | about a year ago | (#44100579)

I see where you are coming from. The concern is that if kids never see ads, how will they recognize ads as adults? While I recognize that, I purposely keep my children ad free as much as possible and its had a lot of positive effects. When my kids go down the cereal aisle at a supermarket, they're not screaming for the brand name cereal like my siblings and I did as children. I'm able to teach them first to look at nutrition labels, how to spot marketing techniques like greenwashing, etc... And now that they are able to think, we can sit down and discuss an advertisement when they show up.

A bit of a story. My 3yo son was playing with an app geared for preschoolers when suddenly a full video toy ad played. He was captivated, thought they were the most amazing toy ever, and began repeating the catchphrase of the ad all day that day. My 6yo daughter sat down with him and said, "That's an ad. It looks cool, but in real life it might not be as much fun as the ad makes it out to be." She understood it.

So my point is to have the parent educate their kids on marketing rather than have them figure it out the hard way by becoming a target of advertising.

What are these "advertisements"? (1)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | about a year ago | (#44099499)

I use Ixquick in firefox, along with NoScript, adblock plus and RequestPolicy. Do I miss something?

Re:What are these "advertisements"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099545)

Yes you do. I work in an educational institution, and like many working environments its internet explorer or nothing, and certainly no ad blocking extensions. So while my home computer might be gloriously ad free, while im at work i see them plastered across the web, just like the layman. On the plus side it makes me more grateful for having it at home.

Re:What are these "advertisements"? (2)

magic maverick (2615475) | about a year ago | (#44099607)

I use Ixquick as well, along with NoScript and RequestPolicy. And I still see ads. I don't care though, because they aren't using JS or coming from a site that tracks me.

I also use Duckduckgo, Wolfram Alpha, and other search engines as necessary. And sometimes I find that Google still provides the best results (particularly for location specific information, and for non-USA information). But it's getting rarer.

But there are so many tools out there that do provide better results than Google a lot of the time, that I just don't use it.

I also don't use Bing, but that's because it sucks. I always found it had too much of a US bias, e.g. search for Melbourne and it comes up with stuff for a city in Florida. Similarly for Moscow, half the first page results are for some insignificant location in Idaho. Repeat for St Petersburg and you get results for the St Petersburg, and another one in some irrelevant location. Here's a hint MS, I don't care about the shitty cities in the USA with the same name as more famous places, unless I am in the USA, in that state, or also search for the name of the state.

Re:What are these "advertisements"? (2)

Saethan (2725367) | about a year ago | (#44099691)

First bing result for Melbourne: 'Melbourne / m l b n, - b r n / is the capital and most populous city in the state of Victoria, and the second most populous city in Australia.' First bing result for Moscow: 'Moscow is the capital city and the most populous federal subject of Russia'

Re:What are these "advertisements"? (1)

magic maverick (2615475) | about a year ago | (#44100207)

Sure the first result might be good, but as I said, half the results are irrelevant. A search on Google for Moscow gives me a page full of links about the Moscow I care about (one link about some business method with strange caps). It's not until the second page (and the second half of the page) that I get a result about the city of Moscow in SomeState USA.

Of course, a lot of the results from Google are irrelevant recent news. If I search Ixquick, I get fewer news articles, only two hits for that city in Idawhere and the official website (now that could be useful).

The point is, that Bing provides some hits that are quite useless, and a few hits that are the same as the other two search engines I tested (Wikipedia, some travel guides, and some other random shit).

Different search engines are good for different things, but Bing is not good for anything.

Re:What are these "advertisements"? (1)

jbengt (874751) | about a year ago | (#44099757)

Similarly for Moscow, half the first page results are for some insignificant location in Idaho.

I'll have you know my son worked for the university there one summer doing computer security research, you insensitive clod.
(More seriously, there's a not-insignificant US military presence in that city and school.)

Re:What are these "advertisements"? (1)

wvmarle (1070040) | about a year ago | (#44100075)

First result for Melbourne: the Wikipedia page. First result for Moscow: a news link about Snowden transiting the city, then the first web search result is the Wikipedia page.

I'm in Hong Kong, apparently makes a difference.

Uh, no? (1, Insightful)

JustAnotherIdiot (1980292) | about a year ago | (#44099501)

Is this enough to beat the Google search quality edge

Is this a joke?
Google is less likely to bring up unrelated articles when doing research. I'll suffer through ads for better content quicker.
Or better yet, use an ad-blocker.

Re:Uh, no? (1)

jaymzter (452402) | about a year ago | (#44099655)

As a search application I cannot stand using Google or going to their website anymore. If Google isn't second guessing your typing it's including results that have nothing to do with your search.

My personal favorite right now is "ubuntu change bluetooth mac". Google claims 'About 4,890,000 results', yet you don't even get off the first page of results before the results have lost all relevancy. I get it if it's an esoteric search, but if it is just tell me '20 results' and leave it at that.

It's my perception that their results have steadily trended downward in quality for the last few years.

All that said, it's unfortunately still the best search engine.

Re:Uh, no? (1)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about a year ago | (#44099715)

yet you don't even get off the first page of results before the results have lost all relevancy.

That's not necessarily Google's fault.

Also, put a + in front of each of those words and you get 4 results.

It's my perception that their results have steadily trended downward in quality for the last few years.

Alternatively, there's just a lot more shit on the internet.

Re:Uh, no? (1)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about a year ago | (#44099831)

My personal favorite right now is "ubuntu change bluetooth mac".

My current personal favourite is:

+"ubuntu change bluetooth mac"

which returns exactly one result [slashdot.org] . If nothing else, they're quick.

Re:Uh, no? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099865)

To be fair, "ubuntu change bluetooth mac" is pretty confusing. Try telling Google what you want to do in one short sentence using clear English, and you'd be surprised how much better the results get.

Re:Uh, no? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099877)

I just tried this exact search - why do you even go off the first page when first five results tell you exactly what you asked?..

Re:Uh, no? (5, Informative)

drakaan (688386) | about a year ago | (#44099975)

As an IT guy that mostly works on Microsoft-branded software, I continue to be amused that Google consistently indexes solutions for problems with MS products (including Microsoft's own content much of the time...even MSDN and KB articles) more handily than Bing.

I've taken the "Bing Challenge" yearly since I knew about it (three times, I think? four?). Granted, I search for stuff that most people don't, but I'm not all that worried about search results for the typical stuff...I'm interested in results for the stuff that's specific and hard to find. Things where you have to whittle down results by adding in error codes and parts of event log entries...Bing has lost every time when I've just used a recent real-world search term...sometimes less or less-relevant results, and sometimes no results at all, compared to getting me to the answer I needed.

That said, for the stuff K-12 students are likely to *need* to search for in a school environment, Bing is probably fine. It's a less-capable search engine in general, IMHO, but it's good enough for typical searches for "with no ads!!!" to be a reasonable selling point for schools.

Re:Uh, no? (4, Insightful)

Vanderhoth (1582661) | about a year ago | (#44100227)

That said, for the stuff K-12 students are likely to *need* to search for in a school environment, Bing is probably fine. It's a less-capable search engine in general, IMHO, but it's good enough for typical searches for "with no ads!!!" to be a reasonable selling point for schools.

I was with you up to this point.

"good enough for typical searches for "with no ads!!!"" is not good enough for me. I want my kids to learn to think for themselves and make use of all the tools at their disposal. It's especially important at the grade school level where they develop the habits they'll use for the rest of their academic career and beyond.

This is a marketing strategy and I would be offended if I found out that my daughter's school was forcing her to use Bing. I won't have MS using my kids education as a marketing tool against their competitor at the cost of her future education and research habits. If the school wanted to provide Bing as the default, but still allowed the students to use Google, Yahooh or DuckDuckGo, I'd be ok with that, but I'm not ok with them choosing one and limiting exposure to other methods and comparing results.

Re:Uh, no? (1)

drakaan (688386) | about a year ago | (#44100333)

...It's not good enough for me either. I was saying that I could understand the removal of commercial, sponsored results being enough for a hypothetical school district to say they'd switch. I agree with everything in your post, actually.

Re:Uh, no? (1)

Vanderhoth (1582661) | about a year ago | (#44100395)

In hindsight my last post makes me sound a lot angrier than I actually am, but I think if ads are an issue schools should be using ad blockers. I don't think limiting the information they have access to is an acceptable solution. I may be misunderstanding what "commercial or sponsored" results refers to.

Re:Uh, no? (0)

RicktheBrick (588466) | about a year ago | (#44099725)

Show the young boys the movie "Room in Rome". Bing plays a big part in the movie. It is used several times and is very important to the plot of the movie. There is no attempt to hide that fact so I would assume that they are getting paid to use it. For those who have not seen the movie, it is about two females who meet and spend the night in a hotel room in Rome. They are naked about 70% of the movie and climax several times. If one gets past the sex, the movie is a heartbreaking movie about the struggle of two women falling in love and how that will effect their life. Show it to a young man and it will be a long time before he considers using google again.

Re:Uh, no? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44100339)

We're trying to discuss internet search engines here. Please take your disgusting teen lesbos somewhere else.

Re:Uh, no? (2)

HaZardman27 (1521119) | about a year ago | (#44100777)

Nothing breaks my suspension of disbelief in a movie more than seeing a tech-savvy kid or young adult using Bing. I've seen it in several movies now, and they always make it blatantly obvious that they are using Bing and not Google.

Re:Uh, no? (0)

Trepidity (597) | about a year ago | (#44099769)

I've been trying out both a bit and I don't actually see a consistent edge either way anymore. Some queries are better on one side, some on the other.

Re:Uh, no? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44100369)

We're trying to discuss internet search engines here. Please take your disgusting queries somewhere else.

Re:Uh, no? (1)

Andrio (2580551) | about a year ago | (#44099803)

It's also less likely to have fake auto complete like this:

http://media.theweek.com/img/generic/xboxoneamazing.gif

What's funny is that if you remove the "the" from the query, you see the real autocompletes naturally generated by the algorithm. They're not nearly as positive. ;)

Re:Uh, no? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099881)

If Microsoft were going through the trouble to fake autocomplete terms, why would they leave all the negative autocompletes, and fake the positive ones for a term no one uses (e.g. "the" xbox one)?

Re:Uh, no? (1)

arielCo (995647) | about a year ago | (#44099891)

I think they mean purely commercial results and web spam. From TFS:

remove advertisementsfrom search results

Against which an ad blocker is useless. Try searching for info on a health supplement and see how much crap you get.

Bing sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099511)

Everyone knows this. The fact that they have to design a comparison website, AND, advertise it like a Pepsi Challenge...well...says a lot.

And I drink Pepsi, but I won't drink Bing.

Re:Bing sucks (2)

HaZardman27 (1521119) | about a year ago | (#44100791)

I tried the Bing It On challenge, just for fun. On at least one question I thought I was selecting the Bing result, but it turned out that I chose Google 4 out of 4 times. Bing falls apart as soon as you try using any of the special "tricks" that Google provides.

Adblock (1)

stewsters (1406737) | about a year ago | (#44099517)

Can't they set up adblock plus in chrome or firefox? Its really quite a nice plugin, and has been around for years.

Relationship with advertisers on MSN.com (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year ago | (#44099665)

Can't they set up adblock plus in chrome or firefox?

I don't think Microsoft is allowed to do things that would jeopardize its relationship with advertisers on MSN.com and the like. Sure, Microsoft can give schools an ad-free subscription to a web site operated by Microsoft. But if Microsoft were to add functionality to strip advertisements from web sites that Microsoft does not operate, advertisers would likely retaliate by pulling their advertisements from Microsoft sites.

Re:Relationship with advertisers on MSN.com (1)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about a year ago | (#44099735)

Can't they set up adblock plus in chrome or firefox?

I think GP means "they" referring to the schools.

Re:Relationship with advertisers on MSN.com (1)

tepples (727027) | about a year ago | (#44099815)

I think GP means "they" referring to the schools.

In that case, Anonymous Coward's comment [slashdot.org] covered it.

Re:Relationship with advertisers on MSN.com (1)

jalopezp (2622345) | about a year ago | (#44100507)

Even if you're forced to use IE with no extensions, you (the sysadmin) can still block your ads, for example, in a DNS basis. Heck, you already have the fanboy list, so you don't even need to compile it. Alternatively, see adsuck [conformal.com] . Great thing about computers is that you can usually work around problems.

Re:Adblock (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099879)

Can't they set up adblock plus in chrome or firefox? Its really quite a nice plugin, and has been around for years.

Adblock doesn't do a thing about the text-based advertisements and the promoted results that show up as the first few responses on many Google search result screens.

What? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099539)

They had an edge in something in search? What data are we using to support that?

Quality edge? (1, Interesting)

Arrepiadd (688829) | about a year ago | (#44099567)

"Is this enough to beat the Google search quality edge?"

What does removing advertising and including privacy features have to do with "search quality"?

Re:Quality edge? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099657)

Nothing. But it is widely held that Google's search results are better (more accurate) than Bing.

Re:Quality edge? (1)

cjjjer (530715) | about a year ago | (#44099935)

To paraphrase "Search results are in the eyes of the beholder"

Re:Quality edge? (1)

heypete (60671) | about a year ago | (#44099779)

Assuming Google can deliver better search results than Bing, some people may be more willing to put up with advertising and fewer privacy-protecting features.

If Bing produces poor search results, all the privacy features and lack of advertising in the world are not terribly useful: the primary purpose of a search engine is to allow people to search for (and presumably find) things.

Re:Quality edge? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099799)

You may have a carrot or a Twinkie.

Is the spongy sweetness of the Twinkie enough to beat the nutritional value of the carrot?

What does spongy sweetness have to do with nutritional value? Absolutely nothing. How often do you think the Twinkie will "beat" the carrot in a selection contest?

Re:Quality edge? (1)

ljw1004 (764174) | about a year ago | (#44100309)

Here's an experiment. Search for "Lowes Stud Finder" on Google while in the US.

WITH ADVERTISING: first four results are:
[ad] www.lowes.com
[ad] www.amazon.com/tools
[ad] www.franklinsensors.com
www.lowes.com/Tools/Layout-Measuring/Stud-Finders/_/N.../pl

WITHOUT ADVERTISING: first four results are:
www.lowes.com/Tools/Layout-Measuring/Stud-Finders/_/N.../pl
www.lowes.com/pd_274870-317-SS+EDGE_0__?...stud+finder...
www.lowes.com/pd_197656-317-SS+E50_0__
www.lowes.com/pd_197653-317-MS+I520_0__

In the version without advertising, I got the results I wanted straight await (first the category-page at Lowes about stud finders, and then individual stud finders). In the version with advertising, the first three results were ads that weren't specific enough, and only the fourth one was what I wanted.

You might argue that you're happy doing the work to scroll down, to counteract the distraction produced by the irrelevant ads, that those first three ads only look "mostly" like search results rather than "completely" like search results. But they take up screen real estate, they take up attention, and they should be counted when judging quality.

So: with advertising scores 1/4 in quality of results, without advertising scores 4/4, which is a considerable improvement.

PRIVACY?
I can't give you reproducible experiments here. But whenever I see the top link as "your friend read this article" then I hate it, because it's not what I was looking for. Again a degradation of quality.

Bing only exists in US (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099573)

Since this is US schools I don't think search quality will be that much of an issue. Bing is ok in US (sometimes Google is better, sometimes Bing, I think it is much down to individual preference as independent search relevance tests have them fairly equal), but the weird thing ruining the brand is that Bing doesn't really exist outside US (and partly UK and a few more large markets). In most of the rest of the world they just slapped the Bing logo on the old crappy MSN Search. You don't get the features, or the search quality, that was built and launched as the new Bing search engine in US.

Google's search isn't the best anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099579)

Whatever advantage they had was quickly lost to the next wave of SEO. I barely get usable results from google searches anymore, and if I search for a new topic outside my usual bubble of personalized search, google's search engine shits itself and I get nothing but garbage.

Just remember... (0, Offtopic)

TVmisGuided (151197) | about a year ago | (#44099587)

In the Chinese, bing translates as "poison."

I'm just sayin'.

Re:Just remember... (0)

Joce640k (829181) | about a year ago | (#44099709)

It's rapidly adopting that meaning in other countries, too.

Search engines are a commodity (0)

the computer guy nex (916959) | about a year ago | (#44099595)

Studies show time and time again that there are marginal differences at best between the major search engines. Google has the majority share due to their brand name. If Microsoft can offer a product tailored for education, they can introduce other non-search engine products to profit from.

Google, with 97%+ of their revenue from advertising, doesn't have that luxury.

Re:Search engines are a commodity (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099743)

>Studies show time and time again that there are marginal differences at best between the major search engines.

What planet are you living on?

The only 'studies' showing this are only showing that for the most popular queries, there is minimal difference (as this is the relatively trivial-to-clone segment).

The power of Google is its ability to provide higher quality results for rarer and non-trivial searches. Bing has made no attempt to compete here (and would do a disservice in education).

Re:Search engines are a commodity (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099897)

The power of Google is its ability to provide higher quality results for rarer and non-trivial searches. Bing has made no attempt to compete here

Wouldn't that be mainly due to Google's incumbancy?

Re:Search engines are a commodity (2)

LordThyGod (1465887) | about a year ago | (#44100431)

The power of Google is its ability to provide higher quality results for rarer and non-trivial searches. Bing has made no attempt to compete here

Wouldn't that be mainly due to Google's incumbancy?

As someone who rarely goes to Bing, and just took a peak, I am always amazed at how much of Google MS has mimicked. Layouts, menus, color schemes. There appears to be very little that is really original or obvious improvements. Not talking even about quality of results. Which would seem to indicate, if you want the latest / greatest features in search, you will see them first at Google. Bing is just an imitation. Its like they are providing a branded version of Google. Which isn't news. MS has a long history of taking things other people have developed, putting their spin on it, finding a way to shove it into the market using their OS dominance and name, and then either grabbing market share, and with a little luck maybe make some money. But rarely do they have an original idea, or improve on someone else's ideas. Apple, OTOH, takes other people's ideas, and tends to improve them, and usually make some money. Google just has ideas, some good, some not so good.

Re:Search engines are a commodity (1, Informative)

squiggleslash (241428) | about a year ago | (#44100425)

Uh, what? Seriously?

Google almost never gives me anything remotely useful for rarer and non-trivial searches.

* Google will, almost always, rewrite the query to something it can find over a million search results for and then require you click on a link, easily missed, to get the query you actually had.
* On being told "No, I really wanted to search for ..." it will then ignore your search query and come up with anything related to one word in your query rather than the entire thing.

At this point, you end up sticking plusses and quotation marks in various combinations to try to get something (even a "There's nothing on the entire internet about this, sorry" message would be useful because then you can work on something else rather than plowing through irrelevent search results trying to find out if something obscure in one of those pages actually matches), and nine times out of ten, Google will still ignore the query and pretend you're not asking for what you're asking for.

Google is shit for rarer and non-trivial searches. Is it better than Bing anyway? Possibly, I've never spent long enough switched to Bing to evaluate it (yes, Bing is just as shitty in my experience), but quite honestly, pretending it's optimized for these kinds of queries in some way that Bing isn't suggests to me you haven't used it in ten years.

Bing is Google's equal. Neither are remotely as good as Google was five years ago.

Re:Search engines are a commodity (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099791)

Make up your own damn mind!
I don't need third party statistics to see that every time I give Bing a try I end up wasting more time and end up going back to Google.

This is across the board. It does not matter if I am looking for help with our Windows Domain (LOL) or if I am looking for info on growing the biggest tomatoes on the block.
Try searching the Microsoft website for the download location of some service pack vs doing the same on Google. The later tends to get me right where I want to go with ONE click.

Bing is shit for almost all of my information gathering search queries. Forcing students to use it will hurt their education. Nice move!

Re:Search engines are a commodity (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44100095)

I just did my study, I wanted to find search results from the last week on a topic.
Google allowed me to filter by time (somewhat)
Bing did not allow me to restrict my results (fail).

In fact nearly 90% of Bing results were not from the desired time period, whereas nearly 90% of the Google results were.

Re:Search engines are a commodity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44100475)

here are all the results on bing for "inept" in the past 24 hours.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=inept&filters=ex1%3a%22ez1%22&qs=n&pq=inept&sc=8-5&sp=-1&qpvt=inept

It actually is faster to do this on Bing. You don't need to hit the "Search Tools" link before being able to filter by date. If you're going to complain about something and call it "fail" you should make sure you don't just fail at using it. Bing sucks enough without lying about why.

Re:Search engines are a commodity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44100099)

Gee maybe that's because all of the major search portals (google, bing, yahoo, duckduckgo, ask, etc.), are actually based on one and a half true engines - google, and bing (and bing grabs results from google, so I guess we can only call it half of an engine)..

The wonders of outsourcing! I'm just waiting until google decides to outsource to bing, resulting in some kind of search-engine-singularity as all searches go round and round in a loop ;-)

Kids love it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099611)

Bing lets you turn safe search off so you can see boobies!

Dumb old Google totally sucks.

Absolutely not enough: Engagement/support are key (4, Interesting)

davecrusoe (861547) | about a year ago | (#44099641)

I appreciate what Bing has brought to the table, but the reality is that young people and educators simply don't turn to Bing for search or, in the case of school, research. What the Bing engagement team might consider is that educators are driven in part by their passion, but also by their need to help young people understand specific subject content in a simple, efficient way. Google's search education team, and more specifically, the efforts that have yielded their search education curricula ( http://www.google.com/insidesearch/searcheducation/ [google.com] ) , is fantastically helpful in that regard. Moreover, their team offers MOOCs, educator conversations and hangouts to clarify how search works. There are other, untapped opportunities that both engines could explore to essentially one-up one another in the education space (for example, how might LRMI integrate?). It would be a pleasure to learn that the Bing team has committed equal resources to developing quality lessons, interface options and community engagement. Alone, however, I don't believe that removing advertising and privacy control modifications are changes enough to make a sizable difference. --Dave

Re:Absolutely not enough: Engagement/support are k (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099943)

you're a moron and you speak too much

Re:Absolutely not enough: Engagement/support are k (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44101027)

...the reality is that young people and educators simply don't turn to Bing for search or, in the case of school, research

So the takeaway here is that Bing shouldn't try?

Reminds me of Apple in the late-80s/early-90's (1)

rwbaskette (9363) | about a year ago | (#44099649)

I mean this only in that they are focusing on the education market as a source for new users and making accommodations for them.

I'm not sure if it really worked though.

The machine that goes "BING"! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099669)

I don't know how Micro$oft marketing ever came up with that name. Whenever I hear it, I think of that useless machine in the operating/birthing room in the hospital at the beginning of Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life". The machine's only purpose was to go "BING".

That said, I don't think there's a search engine out there that I completely trust, but I usually use Google because a.) Yahoo is completely spam tolerant, and b.) I can't stand Micro$oft's attempt to force itself as the standard by virtue of volume.

Humorously (1)

6 (22657) | about a year ago | (#44099739)

At this point the only reason a prefer Google search is that I have Firefox configured to remove all advertising from Google. Until it's similarly easy to strip all advertising out of Bing it's just not worth looking at.

DuckDuckGo (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099753)

Jjust use https://duckduckgo.com
They even have an addon for most browsers.
No tracking either.

Nope (1)

slashmydots (2189826) | about a year ago | (#44099761)

Their search result quality sucks so no, I would say it won't. I still do actually need to find what I'm looking for, which Bing never seems able to do.

Bing: Top mainstream search engine for porn (2, Interesting)

BenJeremy (181303) | about a year ago | (#44099885)

Will they provide "Safe Search" type filtering for schools? It's widely accepted that Bing provides the best results for searching for porn on the internet.

I'm not trying to be funny, either... for whatever other faults people place on Bing, the porn aspect has to be the biggest obstacle to pushing it in schools.

Re:Bing: Top mainstream search engine for porn (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44100125)

Normally, "safe search" is on by default...I often see video captures Seurat-inated before turning safe search off....

I tried it (2)

Baki (72515) | about a year ago | (#44099889)

I tried to use bing for a while, out of concern that google may know too much of me (already using gmail and calendar, at least my searches should go elsewhere). But the search results are just too bad, alas.

Re:I tried it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44100383)

DuckDuckGo. The results have always been high quality for me.

Re:I tried it (3, Informative)

neminem (561346) | about a year ago | (#44100515)

I tried DuckDuckGo last year for a bit. I loved their philosophy, and I loved some of the enhancements they made to the whole search experience... but at least when I tried it, their actual search results were kinda crap. When I realized about 2/3s of the time I just ended up typing !google [search terms], I said screw it and went back to google.

I'd rather Google get all my searches and everything than Microsoft anyway, though. At least Google knows how to do useful things with all that data.

Old MS back? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44099903)

It appears that a troubled Steve Ballmer when and spoke with a longtime friend Mr Gates about his corporate troubles.

Gates appears to have suggested a strategy along the lines of putting their product in schools as being an old-time strategy that worked well...

Back in the day, MS was very present in my elementary, JR High and High schools with products and support.

Re:Old MS back? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44100943)

Anecdotal evidence doesn't help. Every computer I ever saw in a school before I attended college was a Mac(I graduated high school in 98). This includes the library computers, computer labs, personal computers of teachers and the computers on which the office ladies entered whatever they enter when you get a late pass.

Nowadays Windows is everywhere in schools. Just like they are everywhere in business and in the vast majority of homes. Schools use/teach Microsoft software because that's what people use outside of school.

Amidoinitwrite? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44100373)

Hurr durr!!! Mocro$hapht sux!!1!1 all hale the googles!!!

They just want to be the new buzzword (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44100589)

I can just hear this now: "Hey, could you go BING that for me? I want to know how it's done..."

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