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Chinese Media Calls For Boycott of Cisco

timothy posted about 10 months ago | from the better-to-be-tapped-domestically dept.

China 216

An anonymous reader writes "China's state-run media is calling on the country's wireless carriers to move away from Cisco products. According to reports, using Cisco products allows the U.S. to 'attack China almost at will,' and forms a 'terrible security threat.' Chinese officials are urging the companies' wireless carriers to switch to hardware made by Huawei and ZTE Corp. Citing cybersecurity concerns, the United States has banned the use of equipment from both Huawei and ZTE in its cellular networks. Cisco has not yet been named in documents describing the NSA's global wiretapping operations. Apple, a company named in leaked documents, has slashed iPhone production for the second half of this year on falling overseas sales."

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216 comments

Thank Edward Snowden (1, Flamebait)

elucido (870205) | about 10 months ago | (#44100567)

He has certainly helped China to boost it's defenses.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100599)

BS...

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100651)

Every country should boost its defences if another country is snooping around anonymously in its businesses!!! No country has the right to do that! Thank Edward Snowden indeed!

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (2)

elucido (870205) | about 10 months ago | (#44100849)

Every country should boost its defences if another country is snooping around anonymously in its businesses!!! No country has the right to do that! Thank Edward Snowden indeed!

That is the cause of the cold war. I guess we are going to go back to that again because governments never trust other governments and never have.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (2)

Sperbels (1008585) | about 10 months ago | (#44100987)

That is the cause of the cold war. I guess we are going to go back to that again because governments never trust other governments and never have.

As my parents once said: if you want our trust then stop acting like a child and start acting responsibly.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100675)

Actually, this is just the pot calling one of the many kettles black. Huawei and ZTE allow this type of "access" as well, but it's just on behalf of the Chinese government rather than the US government.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100687)

Rightly so, its just sad that the people he wanted to help boost their defenses are trying to ignore it all.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (2)

Apharmd (2640859) | about 10 months ago | (#44100697)

Why shouldn't a nation be able to take steps to maintain its own sovereignty? I'm not a fan of Chinese human rights violations, but they have an interest, no, a responsibility to secure their borders from US aggression. Including espionage.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (1)

elucido (870205) | about 10 months ago | (#44100939)

Why shouldn't a nation be able to take steps to maintain its own sovereignty? I'm not a fan of Chinese human rights violations, but they have an interest, no, a responsibility to secure their borders from US aggression. Including espionage.

They can, the problem is it brews an even more paranoid environment which means more prism like spying operations will be built. The more nations distrust each other the more they spy on each other. The cold war is an example of this kind of distrust.

The level of distrust China now has may lead China to crack down domestically and build more effective domestic spying capabilities.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (5, Insightful)

interkin3tic (1469267) | about 10 months ago | (#44100763)

If you're being sarcastic, you're deluded. China improving it's defenses, even against the US is not your loss, and the US successfully spying on the Chinese is not necessarily to your benefit. It's only a problem for you if it becomes one-sided, which will take a lot more than Snowden's actions. Meanwhile, Snowden has brought to light the US government shitting on it's own constitution.

If that is a sincere thanks to Snowden, I agree.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (-1, Troll)

elucido (870205) | about 10 months ago | (#44100803)

If you're being sarcastic, you're deluded. China improving it's defenses, even against the US is not your loss, and the US successfully spying on the Chinese is not necessarily to your benefit. It's only a problem for you if it becomes one-sided, which will take a lot more than Snowden's actions. Meanwhile, Snowden has brought to light the US government shitting on it's own constitution.

If that is a sincere thanks to Snowden, I agree.

Of course I'm being sarcastic. I don't support losing American jobs to China and I don't support boosting China at the expense of America. Let me guess, you're a foreigner? If you were an American you would understand why this is bad.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 10 months ago | (#44101013)

If you were an American you would understand why this is bad.

And if you were Chinese you would understand why this is good. Guess what? This is not a battle of good and evil.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (0)

elucido (870205) | about 10 months ago | (#44101081)

If you were an American you would understand why this is bad.

And if you were Chinese you would understand why this is good. Guess what? This is not a battle of good and evil.

I never said it was. But since I don't have a job working in IT in China and Chinese citizenship it's not in my self interest to want to promote the Chinese economy.
Do I want to be ruled by the Chinese? Do you?

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (4, Funny)

TWiTfan (2887093) | about 10 months ago | (#44100781)

And Cisco saved DS9 countless times.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100919)

He also made a pretty cool song about womens' underwear.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100977)

Thong song!

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | about 10 months ago | (#44100799)

Are we at war with China?
Are we even in a cold war with China?

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (1)

elucido (870205) | about 10 months ago | (#44100829)

Are we at war with China?
Are we even in a cold war with China?

China and the US are friends but also at war in other areas depending on the area. In the technology space the US and China are at war. It's a cyber war between hackers at this point and Edward Snowden has made it harder for US hackers which gives the advantage to Chinese hackers. This impacts the global economy and the US economy.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100983)

We have always been at war with China

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (4, Interesting)

mlts (1038732) | about 10 months ago | (#44101075)

I wish this were not the case. Maybe the US, Russia, and China need to do what European countries did in 1945 to 1945 and allow their students to travel freely among the nations. That way, the historic French/German hatred has waned to brawls at football matches and not trenches/tanks.

I probably sound crazy, but it might do good for an open border policy among the three superpowers. This doesn't mean that sovereignty has to be given up, just like Spain is still Spain, but at least the people in the country are not just seeing what is spoon fed to them in the press.

The 1946 decision to let Europeans wander among nations has done wonders for Europe... maybe we should consider the same thing here in the US?

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (1)

mlts (1038732) | about 10 months ago | (#44101095)

Correction, 1945 to 1946. This was a time that Western Europe was either going to figure out how to set member country differences aside or collapse completely.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (-1)

geekoid (135745) | about 10 months ago | (#44100801)

AN uneducated megalomaniac IT person with delusions of grandeur and paranoia sure can crate a lot of global damage. It's already being determined that it wasn't nearly as base as he said, most his claim where exaggerated.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (2)

gutnor (872759) | about 10 months ago | (#44101321)

Dude, were you born yesterday ?

Do you really thing that China was all trusty of made-in US before ? China is just having a bit of PR fun at the US right now but in practice nothing change: the US tries to spy China and China try to spy the US. That's the job of the NSA after all.

What you just learned is confirmation that the US was also lying to its own citizen. Also you learned that when it comes to spying a Chinese national, a Taliban general or a French plumber have exactly the same rights for the US: none. That is not completely unexpected, but especially for European and other first world citizen and allies of the US, they just learned the hidden price of the free service provided by the various US companies like Google.

Also, unlike European, US citizen have a built-in distrust for their government. I see regularly people that think that the obligation to wear your seatbelt in a car is infringing their freedom. That is amazing that people are not in the street asking for the Government heads on a pike right now.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 10 months ago | (#44101333)

It's already being determined that it wasn't nearly as base as he said

So you are suggesting that all our base is not belong to us? :)
Or are you suggesting that we are not in treble.


Seriously though - "global damage" then a complaint about exaggeration? The press may be foaming at the mouth but a guy flying from place to place bitching about how the NSA can't do it's job without farming it out to vunerable subcontractors isn't causing global damage. It's the ones that quietly took the money from foreign powers without making noise in the press that would have done the damage long ago.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (4, Insightful)

Pieroxy (222434) | about 10 months ago | (#44100947)

Now one thing is certain for me: The US is slipping into a totalitarian state at a rate I wouldn't have believed a couple of weeks ago. Even the revelations and proof that the US government is stashing all the data it can get on its own citizens in spite of the constitution and the law only triggers anger over the dude that revealed it all.

People, this guy should be a national hero by now, not a fugitive.

So, totalitarian it will be and the US population is gently coming along apparently.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44101271)

I really don't give a rat's ass if China is snooping on me. I do, however, care greatly that my own government is snooping on me.

You're blaming the messenger. Snowden isn't a threat to Cisco, the fact that they rolled over for the NSA is.

I think I'll buy a Chinese router and sell my Cisco router.

Re:Thank Edward Snowden (2)

WaffleMonster (969671) | about 10 months ago | (#44101629)

He has certainly helped China to boost it's defenses.

I think there is a strong case to be made that just the opposite would occur. By moving away from Cisco the NSA may very well find it easier to compromise more Chinese infrastructure.

It turns out you don't need backdoor conspiracies to have a little fun with Chinese telcom gear.

http://phenoelit.org/stuff/Huawei_DEFCON_XX.pdf [phenoelit.org]

Excellent initiative ! (0)

hebertrich (472331) | about 10 months ago | (#44100601)

About time they reverse the tables. Can't trust the Americans at all witH anything that's communications related.
Spies be spies and the USA has let the dogs loose . Their trouble now to try to have trust them again.
Fool me once , shame on you , fool me twice , shame on me.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (3, Insightful)

elucido (870205) | about 10 months ago | (#44100623)

Don't you understand what just happened? We are now entering a trade war which could spiral into another cold war.

This is not going to be good for us citizens who will lose our jobs. It will not be good for the US economy, and Chinese spies will continue hacking into US corporations. You want to be ruled by China then that is fine but let's not pretend like it will be good news to most people in America.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (3, Insightful)

postbigbang (761081) | about 10 months ago | (#44100671)

There is a war. Huaewei is dragged through the mud by witless/gutless/dimwits in the US Congress. Turnabout is fair play.

The silly thing is, that all of the cell phones across the planets are like little location devices, revealing your location, your contacts, your texts, and your conversations.

Cisco is on the slide anyway, and this won't really have a dramatic effect on the US economy. The problem, you see, is that the warriors aren't making enough money right now, and with moderate Middle East peace, there's no good money to be made from that.

Trade war? Insignificant. Sorry. Just not gonna happen.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (4, Interesting)

elucido (870205) | about 10 months ago | (#44100699)

There is a war. Huaewei is dragged through the mud by witless/gutless/dimwits in the US Congress. Turnabout is fair play.

The silly thing is, that all of the cell phones across the planets are like little location devices, revealing your location, your contacts, your texts, and your conversations.

Cisco is on the slide anyway, and this won't really have a dramatic effect on the US economy. The problem, you see, is that the warriors aren't making enough money right now, and with moderate Middle East peace, there's no good money to be made from that.

Trade war? Insignificant. Sorry. Just not gonna happen.

If the boycott of Cisco takes place then a trade war has begun. Cisco is one of the most important tech companies in the USA. What if they boycott Apple, Microsoft, and several others? I expect there will be a trade war as well as a cold war among hackers.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100773)

Just as long as it doesn't escalate into a clone war.
Mercenaries are invariably assholes and It'll be a cold, cold day before I fight beside bug-eyed Gungans.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (5, Insightful)

postbigbang (761081) | about 10 months ago | (#44100793)

So the boycott surrounding Huawei is ok then? Who fired the first shot?

Cisco either stands on its own, or doesn't. If Cisco can't prove that it's not sending backdoor info to the NSA, then is China justified in its concern? Let the Chinese boycott whomever they want. There is no right to sell something anywhere. There is value or there is not.

The war with hackers has been going on for a decade. We do stuff (from the USA) and they do stuff (from mainland China). You're surprised?

Re:Excellent initiative ! (1)

elucido (870205) | about 10 months ago | (#44100873)

And this will initiate a trade war. Now China will suspect every US IT product of having a backdoor. Even if this has always been true, it's now proven true by Snowden and the consequences to the economy will be negative. It means more protectionist policies are coming as distrust slows global trade.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (1)

postbigbang (761081) | about 10 months ago | (#44100997)

Not gonna happen. There is too much investment on both sides. And if it cleans up the misdeeds of both side's spooks-- so much the better.

Does the dark side of intelligence need a spanking? Oh.Yeah. Will this do it? No.

This was the Chinese press calling for the action, not the government. Our press did the same stupid thing regarding Huawei. Did it have an effect? Not really.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (2)

elucido (870205) | about 10 months ago | (#44101011)

Not gonna happen. There is too much investment on both sides. And if it cleans up the misdeeds of both side's spooks-- so much the better.

Does the dark side of intelligence need a spanking? Oh.Yeah. Will this do it? No.

This was the Chinese press calling for the action, not the government. Our press did the same stupid thing regarding Huawei. Did it have an effect? Not really.

It already is happening. Do you think the boycotts will stop here? The US will retaliate and then China will retaliate.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (1)

postbigbang (761081) | about 10 months ago | (#44101163)

Umm, I don't think so. Whose propaganda are you reading that cites this? Do you have any clue how much business is transacted between the US and China? This is nothing. Ignore the bruised egos and weaseling astroturfing corporate PR people trying to distract you. These are corporations that are scared to death to report a bad quarter to their Wall Street overlords. They live in a separate reality.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44101365)

Then the 'champions' of free trade will sulk and take their football home like they allways do.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 10 months ago | (#44101545)

Cisco is one of the most important tech companies in the USA

They like to think so but they dropped the ball some time ago. It turns out you can't be at the cutting edge of technology when you get rid of the people doing the development.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100691)

bit of an alarmest aren't you?

Blaming Snowden for this is obsurd, because anyone that has two functioning brain cells knows that the US Congress looked into passing legislation banning Huawei and ZTE last year.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (1)

zerocool6900 (197286) | about 10 months ago | (#44100725)

Only problem with your statement is that so far the start of every full blown war has helped the US economy. I'm not talking about peacekeeping or drawn out police actions...I mean war. WWI, WWII, Cold War. All boosted the US economy to some degree.

One of the main reasons is that these companies decide to bring jobs back to the US. Not sure if this will happen in this age of a global market. But the tension between US and China has been growing for a very long time.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (3)

elucido (870205) | about 10 months ago | (#44100785)

Only problem with your statement is that so far the start of every full blown war has helped the US economy. I'm not talking about peacekeeping or drawn out police actions...I mean war. WWI, WWII, Cold War. All boosted the US economy to some degree.

One of the main reasons is that these companies decide to bring jobs back to the US. Not sure if this will happen in this age of a global market. But the tension between US and China has been growing for a very long time.

The cold war and WW2 is why we have prism in the first place. Nothing good resulted from the red scare, the cold war, etc. It did not help our economy either, look at the fact that the US is not backed by gold, look at the fact that the US buying power in a family has decreased. We have to work more to get less than our parents did and our parents had to work more than theirs. So at this point, no it does not increase your salary or your buying power to have war unless you work for the war machine of China or the US.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100855)

Only problem with your statement is that so far the start of every full blown war has helped the US economy. I'm not talking about peacekeeping or drawn out police actions...I mean war. WWI, WWII, Cold War. All boosted the US economy to some degree.

So you're saying the US economy is built around wars and the Americans need to fight other countries to continue to persist? So tell me again is there any reason left to like Americans?

Re:Excellent initiative ! (1)

hebertrich (472331) | about 10 months ago | (#44100737)

You had to think when you elected the Governments who brought this upon you .
Traitors to it's people . Breaking your own laws and the constitution .
The criminals and traitors are in Washington. Infuriating ? it is , but you can't blame the world and dog
for the actions of your government that led to this . It's time to pass at the cashier.
The confidence is broken. Time to face the consequences your Government's gestures are doing and done is now .
Don't blame anyone else than yourselves as a People ,. You're letting them do this.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100765)

Maybe Cisco should stop embedding backdoors [forbes.com] into their products, then?
I'm surprised they haven't done this ages ago. The major question here is: where can countries that neither want backdoors from the U.S. nor the Chinese get their networking equipment?

Re:Excellent initiative ! (1)

DarkOx (621550) | about 10 months ago | (#44101155)

Given what our Government has been doing to Universities in HK, conducting cyber attacks of they type our own military has publicly stated could be considered an act of war this response is COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED. I don't know why any reasonable person would expect China to do anything less.

After all what have done? Talked about potential trade disruption. Considering we have already done the same, with arguably less provocation, this had to be expected.

The fact is all the secrecy, creative interpretations of legal authorizations, spying etc, is making our nation less safe. Chuck Schumer and John Kerry are running around saying how "troubled" they are friendly nations HK/China, Russia, wont extradite someone they want to charge with a political crime. Well they should look in the mirror, why are is our government hacking academic institutions their countries. They don't trust us because policies that men like Kerry and Schumer helped put in place make us untrustworthy.

Quite honestly I think a more inward policy would be best for our nation. I am of the belief all our terrorism are in fact rooted in globalism; but even if you don't the current leadership still needs to go because our current policy does not foster anything like real international cooperation.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (1)

DarkOx (621550) | about 10 months ago | (#44101329)

I am not so sure. The fact is this little blue marble is only so big. There will probably necessarily come a day where its us them. Maybe that impasse is 50, 100, or 300 years from now but I think its coming. Starting an economic conflict /now/ when it really would still hurt them more than us might not be a terrible plan.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 10 months ago | (#44101513)

No. That's just the wet dream of the defence contractors that made so much out of the cold war earlier with overpriced crap that didn't work who now find there's nowhere near the same margins with weapons that are supposed to work in real shooting wars. They want a cold war and keep on cheering for one but luckily they have no say so long as Apple and everyone else want good relations with China.

You want to be ruled by China

Not happening either. They don't even want North Korea and wouldn't know what to do with 300 million angry Americans, in fact they still have a few people left in politics who saw first hand how Japan could not do much with the Chinese territory they occupied.

Final thing, this is the press calling for it, so it's as irrelevant as some idiot on Fox calling for the assassination of a South American President. Given Cisco's sleazy track record I'd call for a boycot myself for their lack of respect for US law alone (dragging a competitor out of a court in session to be imprisoned and face trumped up charges elsewhere). Even what was done to the founders when the company was taken over was very sleazy.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100665)

Yeah.......cuz China is as pure and innocent. My data networks get hammered thousands of times daily by Chinese addresses. I'm sure all of that is just a few college kids having fun. Give me a break.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100667)

Only the ignorant morons of web forums and discussion pages would seriously applaud China. This is a country that not only openly spies on its citizens, it kills them for speaking out against the government. I don't mean in the Snowden way, I mean in the Daily Show way.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (5, Insightful)

durrr (1316311) | about 10 months ago | (#44100929)

It's not a capital offense to critique the government in china. Though sure, you might get locked away and all that stuff.

But at least they are openly authoritarian. Unlike the US where you are supposed to have all these right but in the end you can still be locked away and all that stuff for arbirary reasons. Or bombed by drones, or assassinated by the CIA.

When it comes to replicating that authentic 1984 feeling, the US is far in lead with the twisting of language and concepts and covertly doing the opposite of what is stated. Lets see.

Perpetual warfare: check
Removing your rights in the name of preserving them in doublespeak fashion: check
Doing its best to achive universal surveillance: check
Demonizing the enemies while presenting self as bastion of glorious freedom and prosperity, while false flagging, assassinating and shitting everything up: check
And so on.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (1)

DarkOx (621550) | about 10 months ago | (#44101269)

Or at the very least economically marginalized be being the denied the right travel, and black listed from any job that does a background check.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (0)

Tridus (79566) | about 10 months ago | (#44101053)

Unlike the good guys in America, which spies on its citizens and charges them with espionage for speaking out against the government.

When it comes to curtalizing citizen activity, at least the Chinese are honest about it. The shameless hypocrisy coming from the US government is insulting.

Re:Excellent initiative ! (1)

elucido (870205) | about 10 months ago | (#44101103)

Unlike the good guys in America, which spies on its citizens and charges them with espionage for speaking out against the government.

When it comes to curtalizing citizen activity, at least the Chinese are honest about it. The shameless hypocrisy coming from the US government is insulting.

China does the exact same thing. Don't you live in China?

I fully agree and support this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100615)

Now, if Cisco had half a brain, they would bring manufacturing back to the west.

Pot and Kettle? (2)

John Napkintosh (140126) | about 10 months ago | (#44100617)

Weren't some companies found to be using Chinese clones of Cisco hardware and things which contained compromised chips and such? I remember reading about seizures of this hardware some time ago.

Re:Pot and Kettle? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100831)

Counterfeit Cisco equipment.
http://www.networkhardware.com/counterfeit-cisco-chat#.Ucmxi_m64zI

The idea really is that the counterfeits were finding their way into US Government via Authorized Cisco sellers buying up such devices from eBay.

The thing is, if it talks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's still a duck. If the hardware was working, just using cheaper chinese knockoff parts, the MTBF is likely a lot shorter.

But don't confuse counterfeit hardware, meant to look and act like the original, with aunthentic gear that's been refurbished and compromised in the process. Notice how malware gets onto storage devices (like digital picture frames) because somewhere along the production path, pirated software was used? This is the same principle in play.

The reason ZTE and Huawei aren't allowed to sell to US Government is because they (the US) can't wire-tap that gear. Likewise Cisco may have been complicit (or even forced at gunpoint for all we know) to allow wiretapping in their products. If those same products were sold to China, then it's equally likely the Chinese government can wiretap it as well if they figure out how the US does it.

But the point in all these Snowden related problems is that Cisco is going to suffer losses from this. Like the most "evil" companies in the US are the wireless carriers (Verizon, AT&T), Cisco (who provides them with hardware), Oracle (Databases), IBM and Microsoft. I wouldn't put it past any of these companies to be complicit with government requests to access or provide backdoors into their products.

More to the point, If you're fond of using cloud services (Gmail included) which the data is hosted in US data centers, guess what, the Patriot act says the US Government can access it all they damn well please.

It would be wonderful if some court found that the US can not spy on Americans or foreigners who's data is stored or transits in the US under the fourth amendment and to throw out the patriot act. But no, once the government takes rights away, it never gives them back.

counterfeit cisco hardware (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44101697)

When I worked at Cisco, one of the problems we had was customers would call in for support, not realizing their hardware was not authentic. They would proceed to take out their frustration and outright rage on us. But look, we're sorry you got ripped off, we do a tremendous amount to try to keep the counterfeit hardware off the market. But at some point it stops being our problem and becomes your problem!

Wait (1)

wcrowe (94389) | about 10 months ago | (#44100621)

You mean there are electronic products that are NOT made in China? Where are Cisco products manufactured?

Re:Wait (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100901)

You mean there are electronic products that are NOT made in China? Where are Cisco products manufactured?

Mexico

Real reason for Huawei Ban (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100635)

Now we see the real reason for the banning of Huawei equipment. Because unlike Cisco, it's difficult to subject Huawei to secret court orders forcing them to compromise the security of their customers.

Re:Real reason for Huawei Ban (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about 10 months ago | (#44100951)

Now we see the real reason for the banning of Huawei equipment. Because unlike Cisco, it's difficult to subject Huawei to secret court orders forcing them to compromise the security of their customers.

that's actually a rather good point.

with cisco backdoors the fucks can also pretend that the chinese don't know about them.

other way around?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100649)

I thought that we (America) thought that Cisco was putting backdoors in products made in China and sold in the USA, thus China is spying on America via Cisco.

Re:other way around?? (2)

Oceanplexian (807998) | about 10 months ago | (#44101445)

They all put backdoors into their products. That's the joke. If there's a backdoor for the government, there is a backdoor for hackers, and I'd never consider anything Cisco to be suitable for a production environment for that reason. Unless you can see the source, you have no idea who's inside your network.

More ISPs that care about privacy should look into deploying open-source networking equipment. We should practice peering with neighboring networks, use secure VoIP when possible & support open-source software. Spying is not a conspiracy anymore, it's a fact.

Re:other way around?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44101585)

Not if the backdoor requires a private key to use

Looks As If Every Vendor Is A Backdoor Man. (1)

zenlessyank (748553) | about 10 months ago | (#44100661)

Maybe, just maybe, if we manufactured our own shit and purchased our own shit, we wouldn't have to worry about such shit. But it is much more important for the peeps in charge of the slaves(err, employees) to make that extra cash off of the slaves (err, employees) from China, Thailand, Korea, etc. This is funny as HELL!!!!!!!

Re:Looks As If Every Vendor Is A Backdoor Man. (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 10 months ago | (#44100779)

Maybe, just maybe, if we manufactured our own shit and purchased our own shit, we wouldn't have to worry about such shit.

Because the NSA doesn't have backdoor access to Microsoft?

Re:Looks As If Every Vendor Is A Backdoor Man. (1)

Ravensfire (209905) | about 10 months ago | (#44100835)

Because the NSA doesn't have backdoor access to Microsoft?

They do, but there are too many bugs in the code for them to get any information!

Kill Switch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100715)

No surprise here, who wants to have equipment that can be killed from the thousands miles away.

Re:Kill Switch (1)

istartedi (132515) | about 10 months ago | (#44101535)

No surprise here, who wants to have equipment that can be killed from the thousands miles away

When I was a lowly dial-up support tech in the 90s, we used to make fun of angry callers who exlaimed, "my business depends on the Internet!". They should have had more than one ISP, we chided. Today there are many businesses that depend on the Internet intrinsically. It seems more forgivable now; but perhaps the mockery is still apropos. Perhaps the idea of any business depending on the Internet is still just as silly. Perhaps the Internet itself is silly, except for the small core of researchers that were using it back in the day. I can haz exabytes of stupidity, archiving a brief moment in history when we naively disgorged all our information at the speed of light..

That's really funny (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100751)

Under the hood on many Cisco products are Broadcom chips. Under the hood on many Huwai products? Broadcom.

Great Development (2)

prefec2 (875483) | about 10 months ago | (#44100761)

As all countries are spying at each other and stop trusting each other, international trade of It goods collapse. As in most goods, electronics are involved, this will harm international trade. As present China did not ban European products, but as they encourage the use of Chinese products, this ban is not USA only. The Europeans should try to do something similar. They should avoid US, British and Chinese products all along and encourage its companies to use strong encryption and tor like systems.

The real reason... (4, Insightful)

trailerparkcassanova (469342) | about 10 months ago | (#44100795)

The Chinese have successfully copied Cisco's HW so there's no reason to buy the genuine product.

Re:The real reason... (1)

Pascal Sartoretti (454385) | about 10 months ago | (#44101359)

The Chinese have successfully copied Cisco's HW so there's no reason to buy the genuine product.

I thought that Cisco's advantage over its competitors was in its SW, not HW...

Cisco but not Cisco (1)

Ravensfire (209905) | about 10 months ago | (#44100813)

This just means that they will use locally produced copies of Cisco equipment. Which is dramatically different from what they do now ... Yeah...

Damage (-1)

benjfowler (239527) | about 10 months ago | (#44100839)

Edward Snowden is a terrible, narcissistic, uneducated individual. He has done so much damage, its unbelievable.

If I were American and weren't of the nutjub libertarian persuasion, I'd be baying for his blood. He has well and truly stabbed America in the back.

Re:Damage (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44101015)

I think he simply revealed what most people already suspected/knew. Especially after the Patriot Act which allows for such collection of data.

Re:Damage (1)

Tridus (79566) | about 10 months ago | (#44101087)

Yeah, nothing says "stabbed in the back" quite like someone telling people what their own government is doing to them.

It's funny, not that long ago one of the main principles of America was that you shouldn't blindly trust the government. And now the government is saying "our secret stuff is fine, you can trust us" and people are buying it.

Re:Damage (1)

Sperbels (1008585) | about 10 months ago | (#44101381)

The American government started a conflict against its people long ago. If it falls because of Americans exposing its wrongdoings, it's not the fault of the people, it's the fault of the government for starting the conflict in the first place. What do they expect? That we'll just bow down and let the government do anything to us as long as it's ostensibly in the name of protecting economic interests? Yeah, we benefit in the short term from a healthy economy. But in the long term, we are harmed by the damage to the constitution.

Protectionism (5, Insightful)

Somebody Is Using My (985418) | about 10 months ago | (#44100845)

You know, China, I have no issue with a sovereign nation looking to its own industry to provide the technologies it needs to defend itself from threats, whether they are of an analog or digital nature. You shouldn't depend on foreign suppliers for your defense, not only because they may be somehow compromised with unknown backdoors, but also because you have no control of the supply. So sure, drop Cisco; it's probably for the best.

But if you are considering Huawei switches and routers to provide you any sort of security, you may wish to rethink that particular course of action [youtube.com] . The NSA doesn't /need/ to install backdoors when the software is vulnerable by default. [securityweek.com]

Cisco hardware may be compromised with backdoors, but at least they are /competently/ compromised...

Re:Protectionism (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44101273)

Huh? Are you suggesting that Cisco hasn't had products with vulnerabilities susceptible to trivial attacks? A simple search easily contradicts that assertion. Besides, once a vulnerability is known and code has been released to exploit it, then all attacks against the vulnerability essentially become "trivial".

Re:Protectionism (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44101345)

A China puppet has made the last comment... If it weren't for the help of America and the West over the last 3-4 decades, China would still be unable to feed a significant number of its people... China has modernized somewhat in its cities, but in the patamkin villages out in the country, ... abject poverty. This is what they fear the most, internal unrest... All this crap now about spying, is just political/economic positioning.

Snowden is a traitor, and if HE was a chinese citizen in similar circumstances, would be EXECUTED on site... That is the severity of Communist rule.

Cisco Equipment Made in China (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44101463)

Wait a minute. Cisco equipment is made in China! Back doors can be inserted in the OS, or on the hardware.

To avoid the George W. Bush prediction of "The Internets", everyone needs to start using open source routers and switches (hardware and software).

fish heads (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44100897)

hahahahah stupid fucking gooks...this is hillarious

Indeed Surprising (1)

dslmodem (733085) | about 10 months ago | (#44100935)

Lenovo and FutureWei (HuaWei) had been banned for a long while. I have been very surprised to see that China is starting to talk about boycott CSCO and maybe, AAPL right now.

Apparently, the meeting between Xi and Obama was not going well.

oh really? (1)

slashmydots (2189826) | about 10 months ago | (#44100949)

yeah and China NEVER puts backdoors in all their networking products they sell to the US. I mean I'm sure the US military gets weird American-made equipment on purpose just for the fun of it and to waste money, not for security reasons.

Re:oh really? (4, Insightful)

Tridus (79566) | about 10 months ago | (#44101099)

So then what's the story? The US government has been making noise about banning Chinese gear for a while. Reciprocation is entirely fair.

Is NSA snooping hurting the US software industry? (5, Insightful)

m00sh (2538182) | about 10 months ago | (#44101031)

Before facebook was seen as the fuel for the social revolutions, twitter the next media platform but now because of all the NSA snooping revelation, it has made all our software companies look like snitches.

Furthermore, it was a lone whistle blower rather than the powerhouse companies that fought against this, it has the made the software companies look placid and complaint to questionable data gathering.

XBox One unveiling response was that it looked like a perfect spying machine not a gaming machine, new cellphones or OSes will be thought to be full of back doors and websites to be perceived to be constantly monitoring data and handing them over to the authorities.

This might drive customers away from US software industry products.

Security threat (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44101279)

What do you think Lenovo computers are to the U.S.?

Are there really backdoors in Cisco? (1)

jd.schmidt (919212) | about 10 months ago | (#44101389)

I just might have a few of these products at my workplace. Are there really backdoors or are the Chinese just paranoid?

Re:Are there really backdoors in Cisco? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44101493)

If there were I think that would have made a much bigger news story on Slashdot than the Chinese media calling to "boycott" them.

More overblown "scandal."

Re:Are there really backdoors in Cisco? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44101525)

I just might have a few of these products at my workplace. Are there really backdoors or are the Chinese just paranoid?

Yep. And you have some really weird browsing habits.

Keep buying Cisco (1)

gmuslera (3436) | about 10 months ago | (#44101495)

And a lot of other brands... if those are the routers where you can replace the original firmware with a more free, openly auditable alternatives like DD-WRT [dd-wrt.com] , Tomato [polarcloud.com] , OpenWRT [openwrt.org] or others. Or even put Cummulus [cumulusnetworks.com] in supported models. Or if you go to a more generic pc like alternative, directly putting linux or some BSD flavors.

Eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44101523)

I was just under the impression that Cisco products allowed anyone, not just the US, to easily hack their products.
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