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You Will Get DirectX 11.2 Only With Windows 8.1

timothy posted about a year ago | from the that's-awfully-imperative-sounding dept.

Graphics 403

SmartAboutThings writes "Microsoft has just announced the next version of DirectX, 11.2, on its website. But the real 'problem' is that it is going to be exclusive to Windows 8.1 and next generation consoles — Xbox One and Play Station 4. This is not news, as DirectX 11.1 was exclusive to Windows 7 & 8. But is this going to help Microsoft convince people to ugprade or will make them angry?"

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Greenie Lies - Green is the new RED (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141087)

http://knoxville.craigslist.org/pol/3746100243.html

The US has had wind farms since 1981, what the left and the green movement don't want to talk about regarding windmills is (as usual) the truth. The truth is: windmills, like solar panels, break down. And like solar panels, windmills produce less energy before they break down than the energy it took to make them. That's the part liberals forget: making windmills and solar panels takes energy, energy from coal, oil, and diesel, energy that extracts and refines raw materials, energy that transports those materials to where they will be re-shaped into finished goods, energy to manufacture those goods. More energy than those finished windmills and solar panels will ever produce.

There are many hidden truths about the world of wind turbines from the pollution and environmental damage caused in China by manufacturing bird choppers, the blight on people's lives of noise and the flicker factor and the countless numbers of birds that are killed each year by these blots on the landscape. The symbol of Green renewable energy, our saviour from the non existent problem of Global Warming, abandoned wind farms are starting to litter the planet as globally governments cut the subsidies taxes that consumers pay for the privilege of having a very expensive power source that does not work every day for various reasons like it's too cold or the wind speed is too high.

The US experience with wind farms has left over 14,000 wind turbines abandoned and slowly decaying, in most instances the turbines are just left as symbols of a dying Climate Religion, nowhere have the Green Environmentalists appeared to clear up their mess or even complain about the abandoned wind farms.

"Some say that Ka Le is haunted--and it is. But it's haunted not by Hawaii's legendary night marchers. The mysterious sounds are "Na leo o Kamaoa"-- the disembodied voices of 37 skeletal wind turbines abandoned to rust on the hundred-acre site of the former Kamaoa Wind Farm. . . The ghosts of Kamaoa are not alone in warning us. Five other abandoned wind sites dot the Hawaiian Isles--but it is in California where the impact of past mandates and subsidies is felt most strongly. Thousands of abandoned wind turbines littered the landscape of wind energy's California "big three" locations--Altamont Pass, Tehachapin, and San Gorgonio--considered among the world's best wind sites. . . California's wind farms-- comprising about 80% of the world's wind generation capacity--ceased to generate much more quickly than Kamaoa. In the best wind spots on earth, over 14,000 turbines were simply abandoned. Spinning, post-industrial junk which generates nothing but bird kills. . ."

The problem with wind farms when they are abandoned is getting the turbines removed, as usual there are no Green environmentalists to be seen. The City of Palm Springs was forced to enact an ordinance requiring their removal from San Gorgonio. But California's Kern County, encompassing the Tehachapi area, has no such law. Imagine the outraged Green chorus if those turbines were abandoned oil drilling rigs.

The truth is: wind energy is just a tax scam. Ben Lieberman, a senior policy analyst focusing on energy and environmental issues for the Heritage Foundation, is not surprised. He asks:

"If wind power made sense, why would it need a government subsidy in the first place? It's a bubble which bursts as soon as the government subsidies end."

And therein lies a lesson for those who seek to make fortunes out of tax payer subsidies, and for those who want to live in a dream world of "clean energy", the whole renewables industry of solar, wind and biomass is just an artificial bubble incapable of surviving without subsides from governments and tax payers. The Green evangelists who push so hard for these wind farms, as usual have not thought the whole idea through.

Altamont's turbines have since 2008 been tethered four months of every year in an effort to protect migrating birds after environmentalists filed suit. According to the Golden Gate Audubon Society, 75 to 110 Golden Eagles, 380 Burrowing Owls, 300 Red-tailed Hawks, and 333 American Kestrels (falcons) are killed by Altamont turbines annually. A July, 2008 study by the Alameda County Community Development Agency points to 10,000 annual bird deaths from Altamont Pass wind turbines. Audubon calls Altamont, "probably the worst site ever chosen for a wind energy project." The same areas that are good for siting wind farms are also good for birds of prey and migrating birds to pass through, shame for the birds that none of the Green mental midgets who care so much about everything in nature, thought that one through when pushing their anti fossil fuel agenda. After the debacle of the First California Wind Rush, the European Union had moved ahead of the US on efforts to subsidize "renewable" energy--including a "Feed in Tariff" even more lucrative than the ISO4 contracts. The tax payers who paid for the subsidies to build the wind farms, then paid over the odds for an unreliable source of power generation, will ultimately be left to pick up the bill for clearing up the Green eco mess in the post Man-Made-Global-Warming world.

Mehh (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141091)

Increment updates do not justify an upgrade...especially to a downgrade such as win8

Re: Mehh (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141319)

Its 8.1 not 8 that's the upgrade you plank

Re: Mehh (4, Insightful)

lennier1 (264730) | about a year ago | (#44141347)

The start menu is still broken by default, but now it comes with a useless button. Definitely an upgrade!

Re: Mehh (5, Funny)

Sponge Bath (413667) | about a year ago | (#44141437)

The start button functionality has been streamlined to meet customer demands. Windows 8.1 will inspire a new generation to greatness.

Re: Mehh (2)

BrokenHalo (565198) | about a year ago | (#44141549)

Its 8.1 not 8 that's the upgrade you plank

.and therefore the most numerically advanced version yet.

But as for "is [DirectX 11.2] going to help Microsoft convince people to ugprade or will make them angry?", I can tell you right now that I am just frothing at the mouth in apoplexy because it won't run on my Linux box, and hasn't since 1993. It's about time Microsoft got their shit together.

So it's going to be irrelevant (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141093)

Does Windows 8 have a selling point other than "touch"? Nobody's going to downgrade to Windows 8.1 just to get a game console graphics API.

Re:So it's going to be irrelevant (5, Insightful)

Pentium100 (1240090) | about a year ago | (#44141111)

DX 10 being limited to Vista and newer kept it from being used for a long time, I guess the same will happen to DX11.1 and 11.2. Game companies won't make games that don't run on an OS the majority of the players use (Windows 7).

So it's going to be downvoted. (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141131)

So what does DirectX 11.1 and .2 do that's so important that people will abandon Windows 7?

Re:So it's going to be downvoted. (2)

geekmux (1040042) | about a year ago | (#44141169)

So what does DirectX 11.1 and .2 do that's so important that people will abandon Windows 7?

Right now, I'd say DirectX 11.1 and .2 are about the only selling points for Windows 8.x, so, I guess you would have to speak to the crowd who would upgrade for only that reason...

...all three of them.

Re:So it's going to be downvoted. (4, Insightful)

aaronb1138 (2035478) | about a year ago | (#44141457)

The sames things were said about Vista and 7.

Frankly, I was less than 2 months into 7 that I looked back and realized I had been stupid to skip Vista purely on "it's new and different" grounds and similarly to wait until 2011 to go to 7. Both were huge improvements on XP. Vista got a bad rap because shithead low end hardware (and a few cases software) makers wouldn't fix their drivers in a timely manner. Since 7 could mostly use Vista drivers when it came out, it was perceived as better despite really just being a cleanup and consolidation of good choices in Vista. Windows 8.1 will be the same thing.

I would be using Windows 8 on more hardware, but Intel decided to f*ck everyone on Atom / GMA based touch devices who bought hardware released even the same year as Windows 8 if it didn't include their Windows 8 hardware tax. Basically, the problem is consistently not Microsoft, but the hardware OEMs who produce crap or poor support. Microsoft's own internal studies are showing somewhere in the neighborhood of 80% of BSODs on XP/Vista/7 were not due to the OS, but directly due to graphics drivers. With Vista and 7 they created a framework for being able to control and reboot the GPU drivers and BSODs have massively dropped. Frankly, more Microsoft KB articles and help fields should point the fingers at software and hardware manufacturers when applicable. They've always been way too nice and softballed the error sources.

Re:So it's going to be downvoted. (2)

dbIII (701233) | about a year ago | (#44141495)

wouldn't fix their drivers in a timely manner

Since the ENTIRE POINT of an operating system is to let the applications you want to run get to the hardware you have an OS without the right drivers is a waste of time, especially if those same applications can run on a different OS which does have the right drivers.

Re:So it's going to be downvoted. (2)

St.Creed (853824) | about a year ago | (#44141525)

Which wasn't a point for most of the people who were buying a new laptop or similar system. USB printers still worked fine, same with mouse, keyboards etc. It was a very minor subset of people who had a problem with Vista.

And when I recently switched from Vista to Windows7, it was very hard to spot the difference.

Re:So it's going to be downvoted. (4, Insightful)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about a year ago | (#44141535)

You're confusing the UI with the underlying OS. MSFT continues to improve the OS itself, but at the same time they, for some crazy reason, feel it necessary to radically modify the UI every time they have a new release. Not only is this annoying to their dwindling home users, it adds training expenses and delays to it's corporate adoption. On top of that the Metro UI is basically the antithesis of productivity.

Re:So it's going to be downvoted. (1)

Alwin Henseler (640539) | about a year ago | (#44141185)

So what does DirectX 11.1 and .2 do that's so important that people will abandon Windows 7?

Tickle the brain of M$ sales managers?

Re:So it's going to be downvoted. (2)

lxs (131946) | about a year ago | (#44141231)

Brain?

Re:So it's going to be irrelevant (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#44141247)

Except that you can get DX10 to run on XP if you try, but DX11.2 appears to actually require features in Windows 8.1. (Guess MS learned from DX10.)

Re:So it's going to be irrelevant (1)

citizenr (871508) | about a year ago | (#44141531)

Except that you can get DX10 to run on XP if you try

no you cant, making HALO run doesnt not mean that it was a dx10 game

but DX11.2 appears to actually require features in Windows 8.1. (Guess MS learned from DX10.)

no it doesnt

Re:So it's going to be irrelevant (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141339)

They could make games with all those features if they used OpenGL. But it seems most of them love being fully dependent on Microsoft so much that they just don't consider switching to open apis.

Re:So it's going to be irrelevant (2)

tk77 (1774336) | about a year ago | (#44141397)

They could make games with all those features if they used OpenGL. But it seems most of them love being fully dependent on Microsoft so much that they just don't consider switching to open apis.

The last thing game developers want is to make it easier to create native variants of their games for OSX and Linux.. That would be silly.

Re:So it's going to be irrelevant (1, Insightful)

jtownatpunk.net (245670) | about a year ago | (#44141145)

Their best selling point is that you can't buy a new PC with anything but Win8. If you want Windows 7, budget another $100-130 for a home or pro license for 7. And good luck rounding up the drivers.

Re:So it's going to be irrelevant (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141221)

The only thing easier to find on the Internet than Windows 7 drivers is porn.

Re:So it's going to be irrelevant (2)

wadeal (884828) | about a year ago | (#44141317)

From the Microsoft Volume Licensing Brief - Downgrade Rights PDF available here: [microsoft.com]

Rights to OEM versions of system software are granted in the OEM License Terms. The OEM License Terms for Windows 8 Pro, Windows 7 Professional, Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Vista Business, and Windows Vista Ultimate operating systems grant downgrade rights. See the full text of the OEM License Terms for the specific downgrade rights

So please tell me why you need to purchase anything? If you buy a PC with Windows 8 then install Windows 7 and call Microsoft Activation and advise you have downgraded to Windows 7 as allowed as part of the OEM licensing agreement and would like their assistance in activating.

Re:So it's going to be irrelevant (2)

Joce640k (829181) | about a year ago | (#44141375)

call Microsoft Activation and advise you have downgraded to Windows 7 as allowed as part of the OEM licensing agreement and would like their assistance in activating.

Have you read the OEM licensing agreement?

You can only 'downgrade' if you purchase Windows 8 Pro, which is, a) Not always an option on consumer machines, b) Much more expensive.

Ref: http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/downgrade_rights.aspx [microsoft.com]

Re:So it's going to be irrelevant (2)

wadeal (884828) | about a year ago | (#44141327)

And also what are you talking about can't buy a PC with anything but Windows 8? I just bought 15 laptops from Dell 2 days ago and all will arrive with Windows 7. Nothing special at all, not even discussed with my account manager their. Last 3 orders since Windows 8 have all been the same.

Just because you walk into whatever department store and only see Windows 8 doesn't mean that the only reality.

Re:So it's going to be irrelevant (1)

lennier1 (264730) | about a year ago | (#44141367)

For companies like Dell it's a selling point to be able to offer Windows 7 as a option. Even they aren't stupid enough to let that opportunity go unused.

Not a problem (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141097)

Games houses know where the money is.

They still support DX9 and MSFT has done this before, eventually we all upgrade, just a matter of which version too and when but it is certinally not when they think we do.

Sheeple follow their games (4, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | about a year ago | (#44141101)

Direct X is for games. And people who want to play their games will give up all sorts of important things in order to play them.

Recently, the always-online and amazingly intrusive Microsoft eye have caused Microsoft to back off on some things and that's encouraging, but the behavior is obvious and Microsoft wouldn't try it if they didn't think they could get away with it.

"Oh, I hate Windows 8...I'll never use that... oh? What's that? The next release of my favorite game? Only on Windows 8? I hate Windows 8... oh well... Windows 8 'just so I can play my game.'"

Re:Sheeple follow their games (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141109)

DirectX is also for Desktop presentation just as Open GL is for OS X.

Re: Sheeple follow their games (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about a year ago | (#44141201)

But "desktop presentation" is for the marketing types with their tasselated shoes.

The rest of us, the first thing we do is look for the settings to scrub that shit off the screen.

Re: Sheeple follow their games (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141227)

Not if you are into video or image editing it isn't.

Re: Sheeple follow their games (1, Informative)

tlambert (566799) | about a year ago | (#44141267)

Not if you are into video or image editing it isn't.

If I want to do professional video or image editing, I use what the professionals use, which is Mac OS X. That goes for most major studios and television networks.

Re: Sheeple follow their games (4, Insightful)

nojayuk (567177) | about a year ago | (#44141395)

The professional video and TV editing biz got shafted by Apple during the great Final Cut Pro disaster a couple of years back and a lot of them have shifted to Avid and other non-proprietary OS-hardware-locked video solutions. They should have seen it coming after Xserve and Xsan got the bullet though.

Re:Sheeple follow their games (1)

Grygus (1143095) | about a year ago | (#44141239)

Direct X is for games. And people who want to play their games will give up all sorts of important things in order to play them.

Recently, the always-online and amazingly intrusive Microsoft eye have caused Microsoft to back off on some things and that's encouraging, but the behavior is obvious and Microsoft wouldn't try it if they didn't think they could get away with it.

"Oh, I hate Windows 8...I'll never use that... oh? What's that? The next release of my favorite game? Only on Windows 8? I hate Windows 8... oh well... Windows 8 'just so I can play my game.'"

It seems to work the other way around; game developers look at their audience and build to that. The scenario you describe already didn't happen - nobody bought Vista, so very few games required DX 10, so nobody bought Vista.

Re:Sheeple follow their games (2)

erroneus (253617) | about a year ago | (#44141283)

I'll bet you're forgetting that Microsoft (and other platform makers) pay game makers for "exclusive" titles which draw more players to their platform.

Re:Sheeple follow their games (3, Insightful)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year ago | (#44141301)

I'll bet you're forgetting that Microsoft (and other platform makers) pay game makers for "exclusive" titles which draw more players to their platform.

pfft. he is not forgetting that. the scenario already didn't happen. the exact same scenario with vista and dx10.

ms has paid exclusive title money for some stuff on their appstore as well. nobody gives a shit.

Re:Sheeple follow their games (1)

Joce640k (829181) | about a year ago | (#44141393)

I'll bet you're forgetting that Microsoft (and other platform makers) pay game makers for "exclusive" titles which draw more players to their platform.

pfft. he is not forgetting that. the scenario already didn't happen. the exact same scenario with vista and dx10.

With Linux Steam on the horizon, it would be a risky move.

This is just a marketing announcement for the gullible. There'll be a percentage of people who'll go out and upgrade after this, and that's the point.

Re:Sheeple follow their games (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141245)

We saw that scenario not happening with Windows Vista and Windos 8. Why should 8.1 be different?

Re:Sheeple follow their games (2)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year ago | (#44141255)

game companies follow their sheeple.

what kind of an insane madman would do a high budget game and only publish it on windows 8.1 and not 7 at all?

notice that there is a bunch of games, low budget - some even practically paid by ms - that are windows 8 exclusive. because they're metro. because companies took ms's marketing budget money they were just giving away in exchange of companies developing metro store products(and because for getting that money you had to be exclusive to metro store.. well, nobody with a big budget and big seller game took that money).

Re:Sheeple follow their games (2)

Joce640k (829181) | about a year ago | (#44141399)

game companies follow their sheeple.

what kind of an insane madman would do a high budget game and only publish it on windows 8.1 and not 7 at all?

Nobody.

But ... Microsoft might pay them to put some "Windows 8 only" features in their games (prominently greyed out in Windows 7).

Re:Sheeple follow their games (4, Insightful)

Mike Frett (2811077) | about a year ago | (#44141299)

But the good news is that more developers see DirectX as a single-platform solution and are pushing more resources to OpenGL development. Hence a recent quote from the Natural Selection 2 team:

"The drawback of D3D11 is that it is not universal. It only works on machines running the requisite operating system, and on hardware capable of understanding the instructions it sends. According to to the Valve Hardware Survey, the penetration of D3D11 capable machines is increasing. But crucially, machines incapable of any D3D rendering are also a growing market: Linux distributions and Mac OSX.".

And from Leadwerks, the tool to build AAA Linux games on Linux. Their Kickstarter is set to complete and the Steam Greenlight was one of the quickest in history:

"It's interesting that as popular technology is becoming more locked-down, from the Windows 8 closed app store to the increasing DRM requirements of the new consoles, people are responding by showing a new interest in open systems like Linux and Valve's upcoming SteamBox. I'm a hardcore PC gamer, and it's disappointing to me how Microsoft has treated games on Windows like an unwanted child for so long."

Times are changing, the Windows crowd can kick and scream all they want. And with all the NSA information about Microsoft being their #1 fan, it takes complete ignorance or just sheer insanity on the part of people to use anything from Microsoft. I used Windows for 15 years until last year, but my eyes opened and there isn't a way in hell I would have a product from Microsoft in my Home. I'm sorry if it hurts to hear this, but it is what it is.

Game developer Simon Roth said this recently on twitter that got props from other Devs: "Never waste time learning any of Microsoft's proprietary API's."
A lot of Indie devs feel the same way, and like it or not, Indie is the future of Gaming. Ouya, MadCatz, Google -- you can see it changing before your eyes.

Wine is better. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141337)

Wine is better.

Re:Sheeple follow their games (2)

Seumas (6865) | about a year ago | (#44141417)

So you're "sheeple" (what a really unoriginal and meaningless way to refer to people) if you play either of the consoles. Be a man and play PC (yes, my preferred gaming system, of course). But if you play games on the PC with Windows, you're still sheeple...

I guess the only way to be a 1337 d00d is to play all those amazing to notch big-budget games that are put out on the linux platform (yes, there are a bunch of linux games and many decent ones, but seriously this is not sufficient if you're an avid gamer).

Unfortunately, you have to bite the bullet if you're much of a gamer. There is no platform that doesn't come without some gross feeling of ickiness.

Re:Sheeple follow their games (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141477)

Most games still use d3d9, even though windows 7 has been available for 4 years, and Vista for longer. I don't think any games will be d3d11.2-exclusive until windows 7 is close to the end of its life.

Re:Sheeple follow their games (1)

Somebody Is Using My (985418) | about a year ago | (#44141481)

"Oh, I hate Windows 8...I'll never use that... oh? What's that? The next release of my favorite game? Only on Windows 8? I hate Windows 8... oh well... Windows 8 'just so I can play my game.'"

Right, because that sort of thing worked so well with Vista and Halo 2.

It doesn't work because a) computers require a significant outlay of cash, b) computers are used for things OTHER than games, and c) there are numerous alternatives available (consoles, Mac, Linux, portables, SteamBox(?)).

Unfortunately, Microsoft seems well aware that it no longer can depend on gamers to be a major promoter of its new operating systems, which is why it pretty much ignores that segment of computer users and - as the above example seems to indicate - actively goes out of its way to spurn them. It /used/ to be able to depend on gamers as a constant stream of income, but these days computer gamers are becoming increasingly wary of Microsoft's shenanigans and are looking for an escape.

The company only courts gamers when it benefits its console division (and as recent developments show, even they seem to be falling out of favor as it pushes towards its vision of making the XBOne a general-purpose "entertainment device").

Re:Sheeple follow their games (1)

Dorianny (1847922) | about a year ago | (#44141557)

direct x is an api meant to standardize gpu features and and access to them. While originally it was largely a api used by gaming developers, it has since moved far away from that. Today directx is used by video/image apps, bitcon miners, web browsers and even windows itself. This is why updating directx is not simply a matter of updating a few dll's and installing new drivers anymore, but require changes to the actual kernel, which is something you can't do without breaking all kinds of apps that rely on the quirky behavior of the old one.

Where does it say the PS4 is getting it? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141103)

Where does it say the PS4 is getting it? I saw no mention of that.

Playstation 4? (4, Interesting)

Paul King (2953311) | about a year ago | (#44141113)

"...is going to be exclusive to Windows 8.1 and next generation consoles — Xbox One and Play Station 4." When did Microsoft start developing for Playstation 4?

Re:Playstation 4? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141153)

I was looking at that exact same thing... unless Sony and MS agreed to use a common API...

Re:Playstation 4? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141195)

The summary author didn't RTFA.

No where in source articles is PlayStation mentioned.

Re:Playstation 4? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141303)

In some presentations and job adverts Sony have mentioned the DX11 feature set, and some less technically minded fan blogs posing as news outlets interpreted that as the PS4 using DirectX, which is obvious nonsense.

Re:Playstation 4? (4, Informative)

citizenr (871508) | about a year ago | (#44141571)

Idiot summary. Its OpenGL 4.3/OpenGL 4.4

DirectX on the Playstation? (3, Interesting)

am 2k (217885) | about a year ago | (#44141119)

What? Where did that come from?

Re:DirectX on the Playstation? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141223)

Dice Holdings' low standards.

Angry (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141121)

My ChromeBook is fast, my older HP running Ubuntu is fast. My new high-end HP running Win 7-64 with 32GB RAM takes 5 minutes to boot...

I use Windows 32 or 64 for my industrial control software (will not run in emulators), and use faster, lighter OSs for web browsing.

No reason to use Windows unless there is absolutely no other alternative...

Re:Angry (3, Insightful)

JustOK (667959) | about a year ago | (#44141175)

My new high-end HP running Win 7-64 with 32GB RAM takes 5 minutes to boot...

Don't blame Windows for that.

Re:Angry (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#44141275)

My new high-end HP running Win 7-64 with 32GB RAM takes 5 minutes to boot...

Don't blame Windows for that.

Why not?

Re:Angry (1)

JustOK (667959) | about a year ago | (#44141287)

Because there is something else causing it to take so long to boot.

Re:Angry (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#44141321)

Maybe. Or maybe that something else wouldn't make another OS take so long, which indicates an OS interaction. We can't tell from here.

Re:Angry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141355)

No, not maybe. Clearly.

Re:Angry (2)

murdocj (543661) | about a year ago | (#44141363)

Because that's not normal. I've been running Windows machines for years and never had one take remotely that long to boot. It's not the O/S.

Re:Angry (1)

pantherace (165052) | about a year ago | (#44141387)

If he means to finish booting and stop being slow, then he's justified in blaming Windows 7.

I did a comparison between it and the current distro of Kubuntu at the time it came out. I was initially amazed that it matched Kubuntu's time to desktop, at about 1:30 (+/- 15 seconds), then noticed it was slow, and kept hammering the hard drive until about 5:00. Kubuntu was done hitting the hard drive and being slow at the 1:30.

That was a new boot, without anything on it. Due to the fragmentation on the file system, it takes a lot longer to boot now (I have not recently measured it multiple times, but >2:30). Kubuntu takes a bit longer, but less time (+30 seconds perhaps)

Mind you that was a Core 2 Duo 2.2GHz, with I think 4GB of RAM and a fast hard drive (not an SSD) a few years ago.

Re:Angry (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141181)

My Win7-64 PC with 8GB takes about 30sec to boot, something pretty clearly wrong with your PC.

Re:Angry (4, Funny)

Golden_Rider (137548) | about a year ago | (#44141193)

My new high-end HP running Win 7-64 with 32GB RAM takes 5 minutes to boot..

I know that HP sometimes make it hard to find the power button on their PC, but that is a bit ridiculous.

Re: Angry (3, Interesting)

ThreeKelvin (2024342) | about a year ago | (#44141205)

If you're running control software similar to what I'm running, it's the cause. My computer went from incredible fast to really slow when I installed my plc and hmi development tools.

Re:Angry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141219)

Plot twist; He boots windows 7 off an SD card.

Re:Angry (1)

MrL0G1C (867445) | about a year ago | (#44141229)

takes 5 minutes to boot...

My Win 7-64 with 16GB RAM takes about 20 seconds excluding BIOS, you could try updating drivers / using something like bootvis ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/performance/default.aspx [microsoft.com] )

Re:Angry (1)

murdocj (543661) | about a year ago | (#44141351)

What the heck do you have on your Win 7 machine? My 4 year old Win 7 machine takes maybe a minute to boot (on a bad day). Of course, if I leave it in sleep mode, it comes up instantly.

Re:Angry (1)

Joce640k (829181) | about a year ago | (#44141411)

My ChromeBook is fast, my older HP running Ubuntu is fast. My new high-end HP running Win 7-64 with 32GB RAM takes 5 minutes to boot...

Try turning off the "Run RAM diagnostic on startup" option...

Re:Angry (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year ago | (#44141435)

You're doing something wrong, if it takes five minutes for your Win7 system to boot.

My system running Win7 with Samsung 830 SSD and 16gb RAM (no point going to 32gb unless you want to accept the much lower memory timings that come with it) and it takes about fifteen or twenty seconds to get to desktop.

Will make them angry? (4, Interesting)

rsmith-mac (639075) | about a year ago | (#44141123)

Undoubtedly it will make the some people angry.

But for anyone that does Windows graphics development and knows something about the underlying system, it's not a big deal. We've known that adding some of these features to Direct3D would require making some changes to the underlying display driver stack (WDDM), which is why D3D 11.2 requires WDDM 1.3 drivers, and WDDM 1.3 requires Windows 8.1. Unless of course you want Microsoft backporting a new version of the display driver stack and breaking your old OSes...

TL;DR: D3D 11.2 requiring Win8.1 can't be helped

Will make them use standards. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141179)

Of course, and the market using OpenGL "can't be helped".

Re:Will make them use standards. (0)

tgd (2822) | about a year ago | (#44141243)

DirectX is a standard. It may not be the one you like, for technical, political or zealotry reasons, but the fact is, it is a standard available on the bulk of systems that can play "advanced" games.

Re:Will make them use standards. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141499)

If it were a standard, then every game installation would not need to install its own version of DirectX.

If it were "available on the bulk of systems", then it wouldn't need installation along with each new game. If something is available, then it doesn't need installing anymore. So simple.

Re: Will make them angry? (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about a year ago | (#44141191)

It might seem strange, but one would think that third party developers would be hesitant to just immediately glom onto new tech that almost none of their customers will have available anytime soon.

  Then again, the revenue from the chumps who line up at the store to buy every.new.release probably is greater on a per-customer basis.

Re:Will make them angry? (3, Insightful)

deains (1726012) | about a year ago | (#44141211)

Pretty much this. If you need to make big, structural changes to an OS, backporting it is gonna cause all sorts of problems. Can you imagine if they produduced a service pack upgrade for XP, or an older version of Windows and broke compatibility with tons of classic games? There'd be uproar. And that's not even considering the corporate sector. Basically, breaking existing functionality is generally a bad move, and MS isn't quite that stupid yet.

Re:Will make them angry? (1)

msk (6205) | about a year ago | (#44141423)

We wouldn't be having this discussion if we were talking about a free (libre) OS.

Re:Will make them angry? (1)

Almost-Retired (637760) | about a year ago | (#44141261)

Fur cryin in your beer, don't give them any more ideas.

Re:Will make them angry? (2)

Skapare (16644) | about a year ago | (#44141427)

They could have put it in Windows 7.1.

The second one... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141127)

I haven't used a Microsoft OS in a serious way in a decade and this sort of forced upgrade situation angers me. Money grab. Bah MS. Glad to have left you behind.

Re:The second one... (1)

murdocj (543661) | about a year ago | (#44141483)

Forced upgrade? Huh? I'm still running Win 7 on one machine and Win XP on my streaming box. Not feeling any "forced upgrade". I can still buy plenty of new software and games, and I'm sure that will continue when 8.1 is released. In what way am I "forced to upgrade"?

Steam hardware / software survey (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141129)

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

Specifically

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/

Re:Steam hardware / software survey (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141307)

Hmm...
Windows XP 32 bit 7.65%
Windows XP 64 bit 0.38%
Total for XP 8.03%

DX10/11GPU & XP 21.31%

Are you telling me nearly 3x more people use a DX10/11 card on XP than actually use XP?

What headline would you MOST like to see (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141135)

What headline would you MOST like to see in the relative-near future? (I mean within five years from now.)

While I'm sure I can think of others, here's my best candidates for now:

- Five Major LA Movie Studios Lose Tax Breaks, About to go Bankrupt
- Former IRS Commissioner Lois Lerner Described as 'Model Prisoner'
- Actor Alec Baldwin's Teeth Knocked Out by NYC Transgendered Hooker

Luckily (1)

lesincompetent (2836253) | about a year ago | (#44141137)

Steam is on Linux too now. Game companies cannot easily ignore that anymore. Unless you're a huge douchebag like EA, Activision etc...

Re:Luckily (1)

murdocj (543661) | about a year ago | (#44141487)

Yeah.... you can get tens of thousands of games on Windows, maybe a thousand on Mac, or a hundred on Linux...

MY GOD WILL IT NEVER EVER END !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141151)

What is next ??

11.3 !!

Lord have mercy on our soles !!

Yes I would walk a mile for uh, a uh, Camel !!

Unconvinced (1)

Artem Tashkinov (764309) | about a year ago | (#44141155)

Game developers surely won't be convinced as most people still run (and will keep on running) the greatest common divisor which is Windows 7.

So I believe very few games will have features unique to DirectX >= 11.1. It just doesn't make sense to invest your money into something most people will be unable to use.

Whatever (5, Insightful)

Sevalecan (1070490) | about a year ago | (#44141161)

Well, it's true that I don't play a lot of games these days. I spend a lot more time pursuing my goals in life, so I don't have hours and hours to just sit down and immerse myself in all sorts of high end games. I tend to stick to a few that I like and play them from time to time, and DX 11.2 isn't required by any of them, or even the new title(s) that I'm interested in which are still WIP.

Other than that, I spend the vast majority of my time on Linux with KDE 4. Even moreso with Minecraft working on multiple platforms due to Java. The only new title I'm currently interested in is Planetary Annihilation, which if I recall correctly, will support a Linux port. So I guess my care-o-meter about this announcement is somewhere around zero.

I will say this, though. The user interface style that was developed, with a task bar and normal start-menu (not this metro start screen crap) was developed and refined over a period of 20+ years or so now. It's available across many operating systems and kernels. It's there because it works rather well. If you ask me, this touch-centric crap that Microsoft is pushing isn't much good beyond tablets and phones, where your primary mode of interface is your finger on a screen.

So, tablets and phones came along and a new interface style was designed that worked better with almost-exclusively touch-screen interface devices... Then Microsoft decided that *everything* should use this interface. I'm not interested in relearning how to use my Desktop's or Laptop's interfaces. Screw Windows 8. If I found a part of my computer's user interface to be highly inefficient, requiring a redesign to solve the problem, I'd be very aware of it. I hate wasting time. But the stuff before Metro in most cases doesn't give me that impression. Metro does.

So there's my possibly subjective rant. But hey, the article asked.

It will mostly convince me to drop Windows as my m (2, Insightful)

bfwebster (90513) | about a year ago | (#44141237)

I think MS is seriously underestimating the reluctance of its base to move off Win7 to Win8 (or even 8.1).

Re:It will mostly convince me to drop Windows as m (0)

Almost-Retired (637760) | about a year ago | (#44141273)

Yup, I was told to upgrade my xp on my lappy, so I did. Its running mint 14 now, way faster than it ever was with windoze.

I paid the microsoft tax when I bought that laptop, once was more than was sensible.

Direct what? (1)

Fuzzums (250400) | about a year ago | (#44141251)

That's all.

The time of OpenGL has come (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141309)

The only thing holding us back is driver bugs since not enough influential developers are using it. Let's hope Steam on Linux can make that difference.

Is there anyone running Windows 8... (4, Insightful)

Secret Agent Man (915574) | about a year ago | (#44141313)

...that doesn't want to upgrade to 8.1? It's a free upgrade and, as far as I'm aware, doesn't make any changes for the worse. The only thing I can think of is "local searches are sent to Bing," but since that's easily disabled, I can't think of a reason not to upgrade if you're already running on 8.

Re: Is there anyone running Windows 8... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141361)

Immature Linux fanbois are the ones moaning. The same ones who rave about steam on Linux but forget there is no
  games for it.

Re:Is there anyone running Windows 8... (1)

Skapare (16644) | about a year ago | (#44141415)

If I was on Windows 8, and needed to stay with Windows, I'd prefer to upgrade to Windows 7. Fortunately I'm already there for the corporate laptop, so nothing to do.

microsoft will never learn (2, Insightful)

Cyko_01 (1092499) | about a year ago | (#44141471)

last time they pulled that stunt with DX10 and vista, game developers began switching to openGL instead of using DX10. what makes them think game devs will use the latest DX that no players are using this time around? Any serious gamer knows enough about computers to not use windows 8

It's the apps, stupid (1)

QuietLagoon (813062) | about a year ago | (#44141493)

If apps start requiring Directx 11.n and, as a result, I cannot run those apps on Windows 7; then that will be one more reason why Windows is no longer a solution for me.

.
First Microsoft releases an awful version of Windows (8.0), then Microsoft backtracks (temporarily?) and restores some useful functionality that was removed (emphasis on some).

The question remains, how long before Microsoft has another dose of stupid, and re-removes the Start button and boot to desktop. Strategically, it is what they want to do, so you know they will keep trying to do it.

These days (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141513)

OpenGL is where you want to be. Easy porting to mac, linux, and not half as much vendor lock-in.
And with restrictions like these on directx, it's getting more and more attractive to go there.

Micro$oft, keep your DirectX, 11.2 and Windows 8.* (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44141533)

Do not want!!!! I am extremely happy with my Chromebook, OUYA, old computer running XP, and cheap/old games from GOG.com. If you don't offer what I want, I will not buy. You can try to force me, but it will just make me avoid you more.
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