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Microsoft Reacts To Feedback But Did They Get Windows 8.1 Right?

samzenpus posted about 9 months ago | from the trry-it-now dept.

Windows 543

MojoKid writes "Microsoft's Windows "Blue" 8.1 update has been long-awaited. Those who've been using the base OS since launch have no doubt been anticipating some of the enhancements that are coming. At the moment, Windows 8.1 is available only as a preview, and if you are looking to give it a try, there are a couple of things to be aware of. The most important is the fact that once you upgrade, you can't easily downgrade — so you may wish to try the update in a virtual machine or on a test machine if possible. In addition, your current product keys will not work, so you'll effectively be turning your activated OS into an evaluation (it's assumed that once 8.1 goes final, we'll be able to update using our original keys). That said, Microsoft's free update offers a slew of enhancements like a new Start Screen, the return of the Start Button, even quicker shutdown and restart, boot to desktop, quicker integrated search and Skydrive enhancements. All told, Microsoft's new OS release is a more than worthy successor for end users but now Microsoft really needs to work on getting developers on board."

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543 comments

I tested Windows 8.1 (5, Funny)

JustANormalGuy (2969843) | about 9 months ago | (#44157435)

I gotta say I'm impressed with Windows 8.1 preview. It is by far the best OS there is. I'm happy that the start button is back and that they've improved Start Screen. The performance upgrades are fantastic. Everything runs so smoothly.

Windows 8.1 is by far the best Windows there is!

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (4, Interesting)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 9 months ago | (#44157461)

So how much are they paying for posts these days?
I figure it must be down from the glory days of slashdot.

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (5, Funny)

JustANormalGuy (2969843) | about 9 months ago | (#44157495)

$12 per post, $15 if lengthy

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44158055)

Are they hiring ? I have an impressive history on this site and I think I can contribute significantly to the cause.

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157615)

Why can't we just admit, Windows is just Poo Poo now?

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44158133)

Why can't we just admit, Windows is just Poo Poo now?

For some of us, it's our duty to make sure Windows never drops to number two. Although it's always a real gasser to float some ideas about keeping other OSes down in the night soil, they're all excrement when the shit hits the fan like with Vista or Windows 8.

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157631)

You still haven't figured it out yet?

Newsflash: Microsoft doesn't give a flying fuck what is said about them on Slashdot. Microsoft could cure cancer, create a sustainable moonbase, and bring world peace, and people here would be whining that they really liked cancer, the moonbase wasn't 100% open source, and the world peace was going to be worse than Microsoft Bob.

Those posts are trolls. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. And you people keep falling for them EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

Even when it's patently obviously a troll, like the MyCleanPC bullcrap fake ads, people are ZOMG SHILL SHILL LOOK AT ME I CAUGHT THE SHILL.

Which is exactly the response the trolls want.

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (4, Interesting)

jones_supa (887896) | about 9 months ago | (#44157835)

Microsoft doesn't give a flying fuck what is said about them on Slashdot.

Heh. Even Herb Sutter (from the Visual Studio team) has mentioned Slashdot in his talks at Channel 9 [msdn.com]. I'm sure microsofties occasionally bump on the comments on Slashdot too. This is a quite well-known technology website. I agree that the impact is probably still quite small, but it's not a complete "flying fuck".

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44158101)

Dude relax you might give yourself a coronary. Slash Dot, is a wasteland of a lot of idiot liberals hell bent on some agenda for sure, but they will never see it. There are no smarts on here whatsoever and MS knows the numbers on here are dwindling.

Every f-ing post rails against America, ca[capitalism and the Tea Party, how smart can these people be? I mean every post has to interject some dumb political comment? Hell most on here fell for the Global Warming scam, they get pretty angry anytime someone has an opinion to it.

The cleanMyPC guy is the only technical thing on here that makes sense. Slash Dot might as well be a dinosaur. I come here just to see how stupid Americans have gotten, so yeah.

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (4, Insightful)

CFBMoo1 (157453) | about 9 months ago | (#44158139)

I think you are confusing trolls with the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" crowd. My mother who is over 70 has had the same reactions people on Slashdot are having about the new Windows GUI. If she had her way she'd go back to Windows XP's interface cause she knew EXACTLY where everything was and didn't need anyone to change it. Windows 8.1 is just another mess for her to relearn how to do things. I'm sorry, as nice as Metro may be for phones and tablets, it has no place on the desktop.

its a troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157709)

Its easy to see its a troll.,they crave a lot of attention and they get it with all these shill accusations. Ignore them and they get bored and go away.

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157745)

Are you that dumb? You're being trolled. Fucking gullible. Works every time. Microsoft doesn't give two shits about this freetard wasteland.

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44158007)

Fu*k all you pretentious assholes that think they speak for all technical savvy users.

I have been supporting Windows since Windows 3.11 Snowball so you can guess that I am one of the elderly folks on Slashdot. I get paid by a university to support applications used on Windows, OS X, and mobile devices. Guess what, I really like Windows 8.

Why are so many of you afraid of change? After spending a hole 5 minutes customizing the new 'Modern UI' Start screen, I can find the apps I want much faster and with less typing than I could with Win 7 style start menu. I have a huge number of shortcuts that I want old style access to so I add them as a toolbar on the task bar.

Why is that so hard? And don't spew any crap about MS making the choice for you. Apple changes their UI all the time without letting you change it back and they still don't get the flak that MS does.

I though it was us old folks that went around complaining about change and telling folks to 'get off my lawn'.

Jorg

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44158039)

And yes, 'whole' should have been 'whole'. :p

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157579)

Seriously, can Slashdot have a contractual user agreement that prevents Ad Agencies and paid-for-post employees from using this site? People like this are ruining comment threads the world over.

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157729)

(1) You can't prove it is an ad agency rather than an obvious troll. You can sue Microsoft and try to use discovery to find out, but how much money are you willing to spend? That would bankrupt Slashdot. And then you'd probably find out it wasn't Microsoft.

(2) The posts are irrelevant. In fact, you guys piling on by replying with your whining is much worse for the quality of discussion than the posts you object to. If you and the others had just shut up and moved on, the moderation system would have taken care of the problem and most people wouldn't have even noticed.

helpful hint from John McAfee: (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44158107)

you can always use MyCleanPC to safeguard the purity of your HOSTS file. that will keep Junis from getting your GameMaker files full of HOT GRITZ and causing SCO to sue your ::Cue::Cat.

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157711)

I love Windows 8.1 too! It's so square that it makes me feel good about being square. I just adore the new square start button. Everyone would be so much happier if they just had this button as part of their day. And the new start screen is so awesome! It makes me feel like a race car driver, with all the blinking lights. My most favorite part of 8.1, though, is how Microsoft optimized the NSA uploads. It's now so smooth, I hardly can tell when the government is reviewing my files. I'm sure 8.1 is going to be a smashing success. There is no other OS that compares to this marvel of engineering and design.

Re:I tested Windows 8.1 (0)

msmonroe (2511262) | about 9 months ago | (#44158167)

I gotta say I'm impressed with Windows 8.1 preview. It is by far the best OS there is. I'm happy that the start button is back and that they've improved Start Screen. The performance upgrades are fantastic. Everything runs so smoothly. Windows 8.1 is by far the best Windows there is!

I can't tell if that comment is seething with sarcasm. Use a wink instead of a exclamation point next time if it is and if not, this was none too subtle, try not to use the Fox news approach to propaganda next time...

Another Windows 8.1 Story? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157519)

Microsoft sends letters today announcing that Technet is being retired and this is the story they run today?

Re:Another Windows 8.1 Story? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157713)

Perhaps they are trying to hide the bad news with all this W8.1 fanfare?
Sorts like what Tony Blair tried on when Pricess Di was killed.

Re:Another Windows 8.1 Story? (1)

zlives (2009072) | about 9 months ago | (#44158111)

i guess i won't be installing a ms solution to test. most of my test deployments last forever as I can only work and test on them as time permits. I still have a share-point install i did in Jan that i haven't done anything on and probably won't for another month or so. is anyone awake at the helm at MS.

Betteridge's law. (1, Insightful)

Titus Groan (2834723) | about 9 months ago | (#44157529)

No.

Re:Betteridge's law. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157959)

Betterige's law isn't quite like thermodynamics; even Betteridge had a question headline that the answer was yes.

However, I think in this particular case the answer is not no, but HELL FUCKING NO!!!!

Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (5, Informative)

sconeu (64226) | about 9 months ago | (#44157539)

I downloaded the dev preview.

Yeah, there's a Start button. Big deal. All it does is drop you into Metro -- pardon me. Into The-Interface-Formerly-Known-As-Metro. There's still no Start Menu, which is what the "I want the Start Button" was all about.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (3, Informative)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 9 months ago | (#44157641)

What exactly do you want the start menu back for? The start button can be configured to send you to the All Apps window, which takes you to a sortable list of all your apps. Much more useful than an alphabetical list of folders with identical icons, IMO. You can turn off hot corners. You can boot right to desktop. They've brought back unified search. You can even pull up the (not full screen) search pane directly from the desktop, and search for files and applications in a unified view.

What more exactly do you want? Yes, it's different, but it's getting harder and harder to argue that it's not better. What is so great about the start menu that you refuse nothing less than a line-for-line copy?

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (1)

Spy Handler (822350) | about 9 months ago | (#44157725)

Start -> Run -> cmd dropped you right into a DOS shell.

To do this in Win 8.1, you need to:
Start -> Metro -> ???

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (4, Informative)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 9 months ago | (#44157817)

You press start and type "cmd". Typing on the start screen initiates a search. Alternatively press win+s to open the search panel, and type "cmd". Alternatively right click on the start menu and click run, then type cmd.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (2, Insightful)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | about 9 months ago | (#44157995)

You press start and type "cmd". Typing on the start screen initiates a search. Alternatively press win+s to open the search panel, and type "cmd". Alternatively right click on the start menu and click run, then type cmd.

Thanks. Just what I've always wanted in a modern GUI - more typing.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (1)

bondsbw (888959) | about 9 months ago | (#44158073)

How are any of those options "more typing"?

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (0)

0123456 (636235) | about 9 months ago | (#44158173)

How are any of those options "more typing"?

Hint: the idea behind a GUI is that it's a GRAPHICAL User Interface, not a really crappy command line.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (2)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 9 months ago | (#44158117)

Spy Handler wanted a way to do what he did in Windows 7 start menu. I gave it to him. Don't want to type (if you're launching the command prompt though, this probably doesn't bother you) then just press the start button and click on "cmd". It's listed right there if you set it to open "All Apps" with desktop apps listed first. It's literally two clicks away (start -> cmd), wheras in Windows 7 it's 4 clicks (Start -> all programs -> applications -> cmd)

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44158095)

Of if you want to skip the start menu all together, you type [WinKey]-[R], type cmd and hit [Enter]. :p

Jorg

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157827)

Window Key + X

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (1)

Joce640k (829181) | about 9 months ago | (#44158027)

What's a "Window" key? I don't think my Model M has one of those.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (1)

DrGamez (1134281) | about 9 months ago | (#44158161)

This isn't even a funny joke anymore, you can find keyboards without a key with the windows logo on it, but it's still there, because having a Super button is pretty useful.

Re: Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157865)

This is the problem. Trolls posting when they clearly are just uneducated.
In Windows 8+, start > type cmd > enter -
its just as quick if not faster than 7

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157987)

Right click Start -> Run -> cmd

Re: Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44158033)

not very intuitive, but there is a hidden menu in the bottom left corner. right clicking provides a menu with lots of useful shortcuts.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44158077)

Right click Start Button -> Select Command Line (Admin).

Boom, done. Heck, this feature is in Windows 8 right now (right click Start tooltip). Not that hard. It's almost as if you never used the product before...

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (1)

EvanED (569694) | about 9 months ago | (#44158087)

I can't believe that no one has mentioned that Win-R brings up the run dialog, like it always has.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44158125)

It's not very intuitive but there is a hidden menu in the bottom left corner. Right clicking there will bring up a menu that gives you the option to open a command prompt and other useful tools.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157775)

Every tried to use windows 8 or 2k12 server in a remote desktop while using multiple monitors? Some machines will not register windows key for that machine when pressed, and if you have your monitor on your left side getting most hover to make the metro interface appear can be very tedious.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 9 months ago | (#44157895)

Windows 8.1 adds the start button just for you. You can get around Windows 8.1 stock just fine without any access to metro UI elements.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157811)

I haven't laid hands on Win8 or 8.1. But it's my understanding that you basically HAVE to click everything to do anything.

The Start menu in Win95-XP (and "classic" from then on till Win7) could be set up easily to be 100% navigable without taking your hands off the keyboard or having to look at all to see where your mouse pointer was. It may have taken a little while to get the muscle memory to do it, but I could pull up programs without even having to look at the screen.

I've never been comfortable with using a mouse. The metaphor just doesn't click with me (pun intended). But letters and numbers? There I'm a god.

It's not for everyone, but taking away the only efficient option for someone who has difficulty manipulating a mouse and doesn't have a touch screen? Not cool, Microsoft.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 9 months ago | (#44157845)

This is not true at all. There are more keyboard shortcuts in Windows 8 than ever before. I get around fine 100% keyboard, you just have to learn the shortcuts. Even the start screen is navigable with the keyboard. For *every* touch or mouse function, there is a keyboard equivalent.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (1)

Jerry Atrick (2461566) | about 9 months ago | (#44157891)

No, that's not all the 8.1 start button does, it tries to interfere with the smooth working of Classic Start Menu. You can't disable it and while Classic will overlay it's own button by default it doesn't quite cover it by default. Cue hilarious 'I missed the button by a pixel and ended up in Metro' adventures.

To be fair though, I predicted Microsoft would use the returning Start button to block 3rd party Start Menus. I didn't predict they'd do it so badly it would be worked around almost instantly.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 9 months ago | (#44157915)

The Start menu is still much easier to use. Try using Windows 8 for a while and then go back to Windows 7. It's like a breath of fresh air. Everything is again quickly found from where you expect.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (4, Interesting)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 9 months ago | (#44158021)

I do so every day. Win8 at hom, Win7 at work. Start screen has all my pinned apps, and I can display more than 30 at a time. It scales great with resolution. With the start menu, the more items on it, the further away your most used app is from the start button. How wonderful. I especially hate the "All Programs" list in the start menu. An alphabetical list of folders named after app publishers instead of actual applications, all with the same icon (why is it even there then?). And it's oh so customizable. You have to go into a semi-hidden directory to edit the folders, and then there's even two foldres to go into: the user folder and the global folder, which you need admin permissions to edit. Why do you need admin privledges to edit a user application menu?

Oh and the hodgepodge of functionality. I love how in the start menu the oft used "search box" is right next to the shut down function, which is right next to a tiny tiny arrow which opens up lock computer/sleep functionalty. Why is the shut off button so large, when I do this function at most once a day? And next to often used functions like search and lock? Great UI.

For me, the start screen is much more customizable, much more informative, and easier to use all around. If I want to launch an app and i'm on the desktop, I win+s to pull up the search bar and type the app name. If I don't know the app name, I open up the "All Apps" window and I sort and I can see all my installed apps at a glance instead of rooting through a tree of vaguely and uninformatively named folders.

Going back is not a breath of fresh air, it's suffocating.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about 9 months ago | (#44157963)

maybe he wants it for the stuff that is in start menu. access to control panel for one. you know how stupid it is to drop into metro to launch an app in desktop? pretty stupid. but even more stupid is dropping into metro to launch control panel from which you launch the actual desktop control panel that has the stuff you were looking for.

classic shell ftw.. the only thing I've needed metro has been going to boot in unsigned drivers mode...

it's pretty easy to argue that start menu is better if you use desktop mode. hell, did you ever hear anyone complain with windows 7 that they wanted a start menu with 300 pixel icons? fuck no. additionally navigating the start menu is faster and doesn't require any clicks until reaching the end of the tree where you want to. it can even be organized more.

but the ultimate stupidest thing with the win 8.0 desktop was that they made the start button invisible. now they just made it visible again. invisible hot corners are the biggest fail - and the biggest design change in 30 years from ms - in win8(the corners are even stupider if you like to keep the taskbar somewhere else than bottom of the screen).

ever see people using the osx fullscreen launcher, for which they have the easy option for? no.

the only reason they're pushing for metro is to get people to use apps from the store. because that's cash in their pocket, potentially huge cash.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 9 months ago | (#44158065)

maybe he wants it for the stuff that is in start menu. access to control panel for one. you know how stupid it is to drop into metro to launch an app in desktop? pretty stupid. but even more stupid is dropping into metro to launch control panel from which you launch the actual desktop control panel that has the stuff you were looking for.

You don't have to do that at all. Want the control panel? Rigtht click on the start menu, it's right there. Want to launch an app? Press win+s and type the first few letters. Control panel can be launched this way, or you can make it even faster by launching the control panel item you want straight from the search pane. Try using it before commenting next time.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (1)

vux984 (928602) | about 9 months ago | (#44157767)

No, the "I want the start button" was all about normal users confronted with the desktop, and no idea what to do with it. Have you seen all those youtube videos of putting someone in front of Windows 8, and watching them have no idea what to do? This is for them.

The return of the start 'button', to get them to the start screen restores the discover-ability of functionality.

No, its not quite the same interface, but the functionality is there.

Its an open question whether or not the functionality is better or worse. The 8.1 start screen has a lot of advantages over the old start menu in a lot of situations.

And the only peice of the win7 start menu that I think is a loss is the integrated search when used by power users to quick launch apps by name.

Everything else is handled fine by creating a toolbar, and using the start screen. IMO.

Re:Start Button in 8.1 is useless. (4, Funny)

marcosdumay (620877) | about 9 months ago | (#44157791)

What? Are you saying that you want the Start Button to have some action when clicked? If it was so important, you should have documented it at the requirements.

You asked for a button, MS gave you a button. Content yourself with it.

Penny Arcade (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157553)

Penny Arcade. [penny-arcade.com]

'nuff said.

Re:Penny Arcade (1)

kannibal_klown (531544) | about 9 months ago | (#44157623)

Penny Arcade. [penny-arcade.com]

'nuff said.

But, as "Gabe" says in the actual news post for that day, he actually LIKES the TIle UI. I like it too. But, I can see it not being for everyone, and it obviously has some short-comings.

Successor (2)

michaelmalak (91262) | about 9 months ago | (#44157555)

more than worthy successor

...to Windows 7?

Re:Successor (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157625)

more than worthy successor

...to Windows 7?

To QDOS. It took them a few decades, but they can finally confidently say they've one-upped the OS Bill Gates ripped off to make the company.

Yes and no (5, Insightful)

ErichTheRed (39327) | about 9 months ago | (#44157559)

It's pretty obvious that someone high enough in their business-customer focused product guys heard enough Start button complaints to get that put back. I know a lot of people wanted the menu to return, but that was doubtful given how much Microsoft wants to see the Store and the whole Apps thing succeed.

They have made a lot of tweaks to make using Windows 8.1 on keyboard-and-mouse PCs much easier, and I'm happy for that. One thing that I desperately want back is the "themeable" user interface on the desktop. I'll even give up the Start Menu for that. I want to be able to choose between the new "Windows 2.0" desktop, the "dated and cheesy" Aero Glass theme I like in Win7, or even go all the way back to "Windows Classic" like I've been able to do since Win2K. That's just the in-box themes too -- lots of vendors used the theming code in the OS to completely transform the desktop. I was really hoping for Aero Glass to make a return (or even Aero without the Glass acceleration.) Unfortunately, it looks like they're still not listening to people on that front.

Re:Yes and no (4, Insightful)

JDG1980 (2438906) | about 9 months ago | (#44157613)

I really don't understand why MS insists on locking down the themes. The engine is fully capable of using whatever theme the user wants, but for unknown reasons this is restricted to the one included theme digitally signed by Microsoft. There is no good reason for that. Why should we have to hack a DLL to get a feature that the OS already supports?

A lot of the issues with Win8 would go away if theming was permitted. (For instance, the one thing I find most annoying about Win8 is the centered title bar text – this breaks the way I've read window titles since Win95.)

Re:Yes and no (4, Informative)

jones_supa (887896) | about 9 months ago | (#44157945)

The engine is fully capable of using whatever theme the user wants, but for unknown reasons this is restricted to the one included theme digitally signed by Microsoft. There is no good reason for that.

There is a very good reason for that. They want to retain a universal look for Windows. Very important for branding.

Meh (5, Informative)

Guspaz (556486) | about 9 months ago | (#44157567)

Start8 (boot-to-desktop, Win7 start menu, remove hotspots) slapped on top of Win8 solves most of my complaints about Win8, and ModernMix makes Metro apps (like Metro Netflix, since it can view SuperHD content) helps with Metro-only apps.

Start8 already has a beta out for Win8.1, to account for the fact that there is now a built-in boot-to-desktop, and that there is a system start button that needs to be removed before the fake one can be added. I'll undoubtedly get Win8.1 to get the improvements, and let Stardock fix the major annoyances for me.

Re:Meh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44158091)

But at that point we could simply be using Windows 7.

But pop3 mail or no? (1)

biodata (1981610) | about 9 months ago | (#44157601)

I was holding off buying a Surface RT until there was base support for POP3 mail - does anyone know if the new Outlook RT allows POP3?

Re:But pop3 mail or no? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44158115)

No reason it shouldn't but dear god, why are you still using POP3 for e-mail? Do you like having to "Mark as Read" the same message on multiple devices? O_o

"Enhancements"? (2)

Quantus347 (1220456) | about 9 months ago | (#44157619)

Since when is fixing a fuckup that everyone bitched about so mmuch they were forced to reverse course an "enhancement"?

Re:"Enhancements"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157781)

worse, when is NOT fixing a fuckup that everybody bitched about, and still pretending that you have an "enhancement"?

Re:"Enhancements"? (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | about 9 months ago | (#44157841)

Since when it's not? It does make the product better, not worse...

Or, better, it would if it actualy included a start menu.

Penny Arcade's Response... (4, Insightful)

fallen1 (230220) | about 9 months ago | (#44157633)

Pretty much mirrors my own. Although I would add in an extra side of "fuck you"...

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2013/06/28 [penny-arcade.com]

Re:Penny Arcade's Response... (-1)

kannibal_klown (531544) | about 9 months ago | (#44157649)

Pretty much mirrors my own. Although I would add in an extra side of "fuck you"...

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2013/06/28 [penny-arcade.com]

But, as "Gabe" says in the actual news post for that day, he actually LIKES the TIle UI. I like it too.

But, I can see it not being for everyone, and it obviously has some short-comings.

Re:Penny Arcade's Response... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157929)

If offered the choice between shit and shit stains, I'd prefer the shit stains too - but that doesn't mean it's what I really want.

Re:Penny Arcade's Response... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157979)

How many times are you going to post the same comment? Fact: Win8 flopped, even after trying to sell it for $40 as an "upgrade". Most do not like it, and more importantly, many commercial applications do not run on it. That in itself is a massive failure, and the singular reason why Microsoft could get away with charging for OS replacements. Applications would continue to work unaffected.

Re:Penny Arcade's Response... (1)

kannibal_klown (531544) | about 9 months ago | (#44157999)

How many times are you going to post the same comment?

I first posted it under the AC post because I didn't see that an actual person had posted something similar. Since AC posts often get modded down or ignored I figured I'd copy/paste it to this one.

why test microsoft windows for free? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157637)

Microsoft should pay people to beta test their stuff. At least $500/month. Then the company might actually pay attention to the bug reports. And these beta test jobs will be good jobs for all the American high tech workers Microsoft displaces with H1-B visa workers.

Microsoft's big mistake (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157651)

.. was naming it Windows 8, instead of Windows Tablet Edition, which could also be added to Windows 7 as a Tablet Mode.

Windows 8 creates the presumption that it is a follower in a series, and a natural replacement for Windows 7. But people usually prefer limited change, and existing systems are often in place because they are the most useful and preferred. If you make something too different, make it a new series instead of a step in the old.

Re:Microsoft's big mistake (5, Insightful)

0123456 (636235) | about 9 months ago | (#44157787)

.. was naming it Windows 8, instead of Windows Tablet Edition, which could also be added to Windows 7 as a Tablet Mode.

Uh, no.

Windows 8 was a desperate attempt to get some kind of prescence on tablets and phones. To do that, they need apps. To get apps, they need to convince developers that they should develop apps for Windows 8. To do that, they had to push the tablet interface on the desktop.

Of course the idea was retarded from the start, which is why it's come around to bite them in the ass. They threw their desktop users under the bus and gained only a minimal number of tablet and phone users.

At least it got people talking (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157673)

Windows 8 forced people to revisit the dogma of the desktop for the first time in decades. Sure, they screwed up with the panes and the fullscreen start panel, but this is the latest shot in a battle that won't be over in our lifetimes.

Wait, what? (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | about 9 months ago | (#44157909)

Three times a year since the middle 90's there are news of people revisiting the dogmas of the desktop, and building something completely different.

Every time they screw up the same thing: people want desktops, not something completely different.

Microsoft: 'own goal' once again. (4, Interesting)

mbkennel (97636) | about 9 months ago | (#44158145)

Microsoft owns the desktop, and has tons of money. They didn't ever say, "How do we make the desktop really good? How do we use our massive resources to make our customer's lives better?" That can include serious and radical rethinking---if it makes desktop experience better.

Microsoft had a 'smart phone' -- a real computer on a phone with a reasonably capable OS -- long before Apple and Android. Microsoft did see the future and drove into a ditch.

This Windows Phone OS UI was awful. Terrible, revolting. The UI was really bad---because they tried to do a Windows XP on a tiny thing with a stylus. (I had a treo 700 something which I got for free). There was even a little mini "control panel" and similar confusions. Because at that time the ideology was Windows Uber Alles and serving the Windows empire.

Jobs didn't insist on stuffing MacOS UI on the iPhone, because it wouldn't be GOOD for those uses. Even though it was quite different there were no deep strain of serious complaint about the UI.

So phones and tablets get popular. And Microsoft makes the same mistake AGAIN as with Windows Phone (pre 7) -- stuffing a totally inappropriate interface (and one which isn't even that pleasant) somewhere else. This time, unlike Windows Phone, greatly annoying their enormous number of paying customers.

There are all sorts of ideas about how to make better desktops at a deep level (at least browse academia for 20 years) which are substantially more than another skin.

Back in 1995, Microsoft had the good sense to copy something decent for the Win 95 UI, NeXTSTEP, though of course it was degraded, it was still clear and effective enough. Nobody missed Win 3.1's UI. Desktop customers are not stupid dinosaurs, maybe they actually notice better from worse.

Even today, if they re-implemented NeXTSTEP 1993 for Win 9 desktop, they'd still be ahead. Really.

Still nothing better over Windows 7 (3, Interesting)

jones_supa (887896) | about 9 months ago | (#44157747)

No one is interested in the Modern UI apps and the Start screen is harder to use than the Start menu. It's a jumbled mess of icons which steals your whole screen and you have to move your mouse much more than before. Actually, I have noticed that many resort to just typing the application name they want to use into the search bar as the GUI is so clunky to use.

The minimal performance improvements, improved file transfer dialog, improved task manager, ISO mounting and DirectX 11.2, are not big enough features to justify an upgrade. All those features are good enough in Windows 7 already. Those improvements could have been released as a free Platform Update for Windows 7.

Re:Still nothing better over Windows 7 (1)

vux984 (928602) | about 9 months ago | (#44157927)

Actually, I have noticed that many resort to just typing the application name they want to use into the search bar as the GUI is so clunky to use.

That's how people were using the old start menu too. That's how its supposed to be used.

You pin apps you use the most either directly to the taskbar or in a taskbar toolbar. For stuff you don't use much you use the start screen, and the type-search is how it was intended to be used.

The minimal performance improvements, improved file transfer dialog, improved task manager, ISO mounting and DirectX 11.2, are not big enough features to justify an upgrade.

Very few releases of windows have ever justified an "upgrade". Between the price of the upgrade itself, and the liklihood you would ram or other hardware upgrades it was rarely worth it. It comes with your new computer, when you get around to needing to buy one. There's really no point in evaluating it as a "compelling upgrade" because few people do that anyway, ever, for anything.

Windows 7 is lightyears ahead of XP -- that's probably the most compelling upgrade I've seen. Yet most people who bought a computer with XP are still using XP on it.

Re:Still nothing better over Windows 7 (1)

Endo13 (1000782) | about 9 months ago | (#44158015)

Actually, the most compelling Windows upgrade was from ME to XP. There's still things that are more logical and better in XP than any version since.

As long as Microsoft "dead ends" platforms... (3, Interesting)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | about 9 months ago | (#44157789)

I put time and money and effort into making salable sofware products. What Microsoft has told me repeatedly is that I don't matter to them. At all.

What would motivate me, as a developer, to invest 1 more minute in a platform that's almost guaranteed to go the way of VB6, Winforms, Silverlight or XNA? Want to go to the web as your customers are demanding? Recode. Want to upgrade that game? Recode? Want to keep that nifty Silverlight app going. Find another platform and recode. Only C++ developers were extended the fundamental courtesy of running unmanaged old code along with .net. Everyone else is essentially told "tough shit." Worse, half-hearted efforts like the VB6 upgrade or WPF/Winforms hosting aren't developed to actually *work* and so end up wasting even more of your time.

VB6 should have upgraded with one click, or run between tags as unmanaged code. Winforms should either have actually been hostable in WPF, or come with a one click upgrade to an ASP simulacrum of Winform code. VBScript and JScript should have migrated to VBScript.net and JScript.net rather than the syntactic abomination that is Powershell. Those would have been the right decisions, had Microsoft given a shit.

When Microsoft finally realizes that the word "Recode" IS ALWAYS THE WRONG ANSWER when a developer needs to migrate to another platform, they might actually get some interest in their products. Not before.

Common courtesy and consideration of the financial needs of real developers would go a long way. The ISV world is not made of C++ elite. It's made of people who have to get some work done and make a living - who do not, and will never aspire to the at the top of the programming heap. That's your core audience, not the 20-something genius you hire from Kazakhstan. Cater to them and their ilk, and them only and you will fail.

Like you're doing now.

Re:As long as Microsoft "dead ends" platforms... (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about 9 months ago | (#44158005)

funny thing about them EOL'ing products is that they do them even if they are using them.

so how much life do the silverlight.* and xna.* have left in windows phone?

So? (1)

Endo13 (1000782) | about 9 months ago | (#44157799)

Let me know when I can use it on a desktop without ever seeing any part of Metro for any reason, AND has some improvement over 7 that makes it worth buying. Until then, I have no interest in even trying it.

start menu, we will miss you (1)

LoRdTAW (99712) | about 9 months ago | (#44157809)

Still no classic start menu.

But then again how often do you really use the start menu? I run windows 7 on my general desktop and between pinning apps to the taskbar and using fences for some groups of icons on my desktop, I really have no need for a start menu. The downside is some programs come with help files, utilities and other ancillary programs that are better off stuck in a folder of an alphabetically arranged list. But those are a simple windows key -> type name and hit enter when the search finds it. That I will certainly miss.

On Linux I still do not run Gnome 3 and prefer Mate. I put shortcut icons in the upper bar and use the "start menu" from time to time. At least Linux gives you the freedom to say fuck you to new UI's.

Re:start menu, we will miss you (1)

Endo13 (1000782) | about 9 months ago | (#44157971)

I use the start menu quite frequently.

Re:start menu, we will miss you (1)

LoRdTAW (99712) | about 9 months ago | (#44158157)

To each his own I suppose. Most of the software I install which gets lost in the start menu is usually some utility I need for a file conversion or evaluating something. I used to let them pile up but now I uninstall them unless they were incredibly difficult to find. I find that on my windows PC its mostly games and a few programs that I run on both windows and Linux.

backdoors for everyone! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44157873)

sexy

Even faster? Really? (1)

Mashiki (184564) | about 9 months ago | (#44157879)

I don't know if they could get it much faster, after I installed the update to my bios fully supporting UEFI, I was right around 7seconds on the OS after post on a 1st gen SSD. Where they're going to trim and get a faster boot time even from that I have no freaking clue.

Waitwhat? (1)

pla (258480) | about 9 months ago | (#44157913)

but now Microsoft really needs to work on getting developers on board.

Come again? Unless they completely broke the OS from the cloud down, they already have somewhere around 80% of developers actively working in their environment.

Oh! Riiight - By "8.1", Microsoft doesn't mean "Win7-plus-1.1 and we fixed the useless bullshit we did in Windows-FisherPrice-edition", it means they gave their latest defective-by-design codebase a facelift so as to not completely alienate those of us who will use 7 until MS comes up with their next "real" OS.

Sorry, Ballmer, but if you want developers, give us something worth developing for. Because if you really want to force the PC-vs-tablet issue, Android and iOS already won. Your move, though...

Nope still sucks move along..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44158037)

Nope it still sucks...move along to another OS......Preferably OS X.

Funny. (2)

jellomizer (103300) | about 9 months ago | (#44158057)

You know about all the bitching and moaning. It is just about a new UI, that really isn't that big of a deal, especially for a group of people use to using a bunch of Operating Systems.

I haven't read many comments about Windows 8 with problems with more important things such as Driver Compatibility, Unexpect crashes, other technical problems, or Slowness.

It just sounds like a bunch of Whiny people who wants to get an Apple or Defend Linux, or are so old or autistic that they cannot handle any change.

Uninstalled it in 2 days (2)

javajeff (73413) | about 9 months ago | (#44158075)

It took me forever to get it installed on my clean system due to likely high download demand. I thought it ran slower than Windows 8.0, and iTunes hung like crazy when opening. Other programs will likely need updates when this upgrade goes final. They added shutdown to the right click start button menu. I cannot understand why they NEVER thought about making a SHUTDOWN TILE in the first group of tiles. that would have saved them a bunch of early adopter complaints.

Did they get 8.1 right? Uhm. NO! (1)

Chas (5144) | about 9 months ago | (#44158113)

Microsoft may have "reacted" to feedback. But they sure as hell didn't LISTEN to it.

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