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Edward Snowden Files For Political Asylum In Russia

Unknown Lamer posted 1 year,21 days | from the silly-rabbit-human-rights-are-for-Party-members dept.

Security 447

vikingpower writes "The official Russian Press agency Interfax has the scoop: Edward Snowden asks for political asylum in Russia (Google Translate). Russia Today, however, denies the news. Is this part of a clever disinformation move by Snowden, who reportedly is still in the Moscow airport Sheremetyevo 2?" The Washington Post is also reporting Snowden did apply for asylum in Russia. Snowden released a statement last night through Wikileaks, quoting: "For decades the United States of America has been one of the strongest defenders of the human right to seek asylum. Sadly, this right, laid out and voted for by the U.S. in Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, is now being rejected by the current government of my country. The Obama administration has now adopted the strategy of using citizenship as a weapon. Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person. Without any judicial order, the administration now seeks to stop me exercising a basic right. A right that belongs to everybody. The right to seek asylum."

cancel ×

447 comments

We have met the enemy (5, Insightful)

rockout (1039072) | 1 year,21 days | (#44163879)

and he is us.

You, sir, truly have a dizzying intellect. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44163973)

What a remarkably insightful comment!

Snowden has retracted his asylum application (5, Informative)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164133)

Snowden has retracted his asylum application to Russia, on the ground that he does not want to jeopardize the state-to-state relationship between Russia and the USA

Re:Snowden has retracted his asylum application (3, Insightful)

vikingpower (768921) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164401)

on the ground that he does not want to jeopardize the state-to-state relationship between Russia and the USA

I am not sure about that ground. The only fact we know for sure, at the moment, is that he has retracted. The ground is not known, and is being indicated by many sources to be the fact that Putin posed "no more disclosures" as a conditions. Which is not quite the same as what you state, only similar or an indication thereof.

Re:Snowden has retracted his asylum application (-1, Flamebait)

Crimey McBiggles (705157) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164405)

That's pretty informative bro. Care to provide a source??

Re:We have met the enemy (0)

cold fjord (826450) | 1 year,21 days | (#44163993)

I think you'll have to be a bit more specific than that.

Re:We have met the enemy (5, Interesting)

rockout (1039072) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164235)

Sure. I was born in an Eastern-bloc country (not Russia) and my dad took my mom and I out of there before I was 2. All I heard growing up was how America was the land of the free, and the evil Russians were holding down my cousins back in the homeland, and all of that was true. They were the enemy. They were opening the mail going back and forth between us and our relatives (literally - you could see it when the letters arrived, at both ends) and they were keeping more of them from leaving and joining us in the US, although some more did make it over.

Now we're the ones opening the mail of our own citizens. So what if it's electronic? Then you have one guy who made public a lot of the details of how the US government is spying on its own citizens, (and I'm glad he did it although I feel sorry for him because he's getting fucked) and he's being punished by the current gov't bringing the full weight of diplomatic pressure to make sure he can't get anywhere, even as they lie through their teeth and claim there's nothing special about his case and no backdoor dealing is being done to get "some hacker."

For me, it doesn't get any more backwards from what I grew up with.

NSA is not us (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164033)

NSA is not us. If NSA were us, Clapper wouldn't be lying to Congress.
FISA ruling wouldn't be hidden from us, especially the 2011 one saying its illegal.
This wouldn't have been done in secret and they wouldn't have to lie to us.
Snowden wouldn't have had to leak something that should/needs be public in a democracy anyway.
FTC and other government agencies wouldn't have to remind Corps there are laws in the land.
Google Yahoo etc. wouldn't be fighting secret orders in secret kangaroo courts.
Cheney wouldn't be smirking.

So no, it's them, no us. A fear-mongering faction in the NSA led by General Alexander that simply decided one day to capture all data and store all data, on everyone, and a lot of traitors to their countries who went along with it. /rant

You may not want to admit it ... (5, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164159)

... but NSA does represent the Americans !!

Whether you like it or not, if you are an American (which I am), NSA is part and parcel of the American government - and whatever NSA is doing (and whatever the Obama administration is doing right now) does represent ALL THE AMERICANS

I mean, look at what is happening in Egypt

The Egyptians who are tired of the non-performing Egyptian presidents are gathering in HUGE CROWD, demanding that muslim-brotherhood figurehead to step down

And about America ... ... do you see anything like that happening ?

Why not ?

What kind of message the Americans are telling the world ? ... that we, the Americans, are SATISFIED with what the Obama administration is doing ... that we, the Americans, agree with what NSA is doing ... that we, the Americans, do not mind our phones be tapped, do not mind that the big brother has invaded our privacy, do not mind at all, that our liberties are being violated

By doing nothing, that's THE MESSAGE the Americans are telling the world ... whether you like it, or not

Re: You may not want to admit it ... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164251)

So go start a protest in front of the whitehouse already. Oh wait, why are you still in your parent's basement? Because you're too chicken to do it!

Re: You may not want to admit it ... (5, Informative)

nickmalthus (972450) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164437)

See you on the 4th AC [restorethefourth.net]

Re:You may not want to admit it ... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164253)

Thank you for saying that so clearly. I hope you all read that and understand what it means. Simply not acting is an action all by itself and means something.

Re:You may not want to admit it ... (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164259)

By doing nothing, that's THE MESSAGE the Americans are telling the world ... whether you like it, or not

And the rest of the world is both laughing their asses off at you, and increasingly realizing that what America says and what America does are two entirely different things.

All that talk about rights and freedoms is hypocrisy, and as a government they're more interested in forcing other countries to adopt stricter copyright protections than anything else.

America has lost the right to tell other countries to not spy on their citizens, or pretty much anything -- because they do it themselves. You ignore your own Constitution more every week.

What the rest of the world is seeing is a steady decline into being xenophobic idiots who like to tell everyone else how to run their countries while steadily allowing their own to fall apart.

Snowden's statement - 1st July 2013 (5, Informative)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164119)

http://wikileaks.org/Statement-from-Edward-Snowden-in.html?snow [wikileaks.org]

Monday July 1, 21:40 UTC
One week ago I left Hong Kong after it became clear that my freedom and safety were under threat for revealing the truth. My continued liberty has been owed to the efforts of friends new and old, family, and others who I have never met and probably never will. I trusted them with my life and they returned that trust with a faith in me for which I will always be thankful.

On Thursday, President Obama declared before the world that he would not permit any diplomatic "wheeling and dealing" over my case. Yet now it is being reported that after promising not to do so, the President ordered his Vice President to pressure the leaders of nations from which I have requested protection to deny my asylum petitions.

This kind of deception from a world leader is not justice, and neither is the extralegal penalty of exile. These are the old, bad tools of political aggression. Their purpose is to frighten, not me, but those who would come after me.

For decades the United States of America has been one of the strongest defenders of the human right to seek asylum. Sadly, this right, laid out and voted for by the U.S. in Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, is now being rejected by the current government of my country. The Obama administration has now adopted the strategy of using citizenship as a weapon. Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person. Without any judicial order, the administration now seeks to stop me exercising a basic right. A right that belongs to everybody. The right to seek asylum.

In the end the Obama administration is not afraid of whistleblowers like me, Bradley Manning or Thomas Drake. We are stateless, imprisoned, or powerless. No, the Obama administration is afraid of you. It is afraid of an informed, angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised Ã" and it should be.

I am unbowed in my convictions and impressed at the efforts taken by so many.

Edward Joseph Snowden Monday 1st July 2013

Re:We have met the enemy (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164209)

Heheh
 
Time to come on home, boy, we got ya...
 
Don't worry, I nice room at the ADX supermax awaits. The next 50 years of your existence: 23 hours a day locked up, in a poured concrete cell, sleeping on a poured concrete bed, pissing in a poured concrete toilet, with a 4 inch wide window that you can only see the sky out of.
  hope it was worth it..

Life imitating art (1)

arcite (661011) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164237)

I wonder if he has discovered the finer delicacies of airport eating, as seen in the Terminal, such as the venerable ketchup and mustard cracker sandwich.

Re:We have met the enemy (1)

vikingpower (768921) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164313)

The quality of comments on Slashdot is going up again, for the first time since years. This is a comment that could come straight from cult literature, or could - alternatively - go straight into history. I hope I may use and disperse this comment.

Accept the consequences (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44163903)

What you did and the possible punishment does not merit asylum. Stop whining.

Re: Accept the consequences (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44163929)

Snooze Alarm.

Hit the button. Roll over.

Re:Accept the consequences (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164079)

That's weird, multiple international treaties disagree. They must be wrong huh?

Russia? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44163921)

I never figured Russia was the sort of bastion of human rights and limited government such that its leaders would want to help a guy like Snowden.

Re:Russia? (2)

MrHanky (141717) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164011)

It's not. But it's big and powerful, and would put up a fight if the U.S. tried to extract him. Most first world countries wouldn't even dare protest.

Re:Russia? (1)

jellomizer (103300) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164303)

We make these crazy lines between good guys and bad guys, with government these lines do not exist every government is capable of great good and evil at the same time.

Russia really doesn't care much about what he did. But they like putting the US in a position that they will need to beg and bargain to them.

Snowden was stupid enough to blab about what he found, he could have probably functioned a lot better by slowly feeding the American Conspiracy ideal by saying. I have worked for the CIA, I cannot tell you the details but you all should be really scared about your privacy. He probably could have gotten much further.

I don't think I agree with this statement... (4, Insightful)

Pollux (102520) | 1 year,21 days | (#44163923)

It has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person.

Not quite. He is still a citizen of the United States and can contact the US Embassy for assistance to leave the country, though it would mean his surrender to the United States. If he publicly made that intent known, officials from the US Embassy in Russia could travel to the airport, use diplomatic powers to pass into where Snowden rests, issue him temporary travel documents to escort him out of the airport and to the embassy, and arrange for travel home.

He's not stateless, but I'm sure he likes to think of himself that way.

Re:I don't think I agree with this statement... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164019)

Not quite. He is still a citizen of the United States and can contact the US Embassy

I think his point is that the US Government has flagrantly violated the contract of citizenship. So in a real and tangible sense he does not have it.

Re:I don't think I agree with this statement... (0)

Viol8 (599362) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164193)

Well using that moronic logic, given the human rights record of Russia he certainly won't have it there either will he?

Re:I don't think I agree with this statement... (4, Interesting)

F.Ultra (1673484) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164455)

So with your advanced logic you prefer Gitmo over Russia. Interesting.

Re:I don't think I agree with this statement... (0)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164045)

officials from the US Embassy in Russia could travel to the airport, use diplomatic powers to pass into where Snowden rests, issue him temporary travel documents to escort him out of the airport and to the embassy, and arrange for travel home.

Umm, I.

Ummm.

Ya. Go find an Orange Julius. They're pretty good.

Re:I don't think I agree with this statement... (4, Insightful)

Spottywot (1910658) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164075)

It has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person.

Not quite. He is still a citizen of the United States and can contact the US Embassy for assistance to leave the country, though it would mean his surrender to the United States. If he publicly made that intent known, officials from the US Embassy in Russia could travel to the airport, use diplomatic powers to pass into where Snowden rests, issue him temporary travel documents to escort him out of the airport and to the embassy, and arrange for travel home.

He's not stateless, but I'm sure he likes to think of himself that way.

The point of him seeking asylum is that he does not want to surrender to the US authorities, that was the whole point in him fleeing in the first place, but I'm sure you're aware of that. What he should have said to avoid needless pedantry is 'The US government have taken away the one advantage of US citizenship that is of any use to me right now, the ability to travel to somewhere that I won' t be incarcerated and demonised for the rest of my life'.

Re:I don't think I agree with this statement... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164239)

If you're on the run from people who want to prosecute you for acts you admit you did, that doesn't make you stateless, that makes you a wanted criminal. The only reason you'd call yourself stateless in that situation is if you felt like you had to ratchet up the drama another notch or two.

Calling out this guy on his willingness to redefine words for the purpose of PR is not needless pedantry.

Re:I don't think I agree with this statement... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164091)

Passports cost a lot of money.
Most passports boldly proclaim yada yada we look after you, never mind the fact non-democracies (usually has the word 'Peoples')
use it as a tool to stop their citizens fleeing. Someone else IANAL can explain the the legality or otherwise of the alleged cancellation.
Whatever decision, can it be appealed? Can they get an injunction for 48 hours?
If it can be revoked at a whim, then it is just a temporary travel thingy, and the issue price should be lowered to $40 or so.

Re:I don't think I agree with this statement... (2)

TWiTfan (2887093) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164131)

They would even provide him with a place to stay when he got back to the U.S.--a permanent place to stay.

Oh (2)

kiriath (2670145) | 1 year,21 days | (#44163935)

How I wish this was hard to believe.

Snowden has withdrawn that request? (5, Informative)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | 1 year,21 days | (#44163937)

Re:Snowden has withdrawn that request? (2, Insightful)

postbigbang (761081) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164071)

This link was corroborated by Democracy Now this morning.

The post is therefore moot, but the mudslinging will continue unabated.

Yesterday's news for nerds (5, Informative)

mrsam (12205) | 1 year,21 days | (#44163939)

"Edward Snowden Files For Political Asylum In Russia"

That was yesterday's news, sorry. Today's news, is that he's not [foxnews.com] .

Re:Yesterday's news for nerds (3, Funny)

TWiTfan (2887093) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164153)

This is /. Yesterday's news is their specialty.

Is he insane?? (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44163943)

One can only wonder.. Asylum?, in Russia?? LMAO ROLF etc etc.
One of the worst countries regarding to human rights, freedom of press etc.

Re:Is he insane?? (1)

benjfowler (239527) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164017)

It's the same kind of severe lack of perspective you see of some the the extreme libertarians you see in these comment threads too...

Re:Is he insane?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164161)

At least the Russians don't hold themselves up as some great bastion of freedom while they subvert all *their* freedoms.

Re:Is he insane?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164349)

No kidding. I would prefer to be in a place where at least I know they are spying and I have no rights. America is all about freedom and rights except that you don't have any and they lie.

What's up with all you O supporters anyways? What about all the promises of protecting whistleblowers, and transparency? Now all of you call snowden a criminal because he sees Obama's government breaking the laws. Jesus you are all a bunch of pansy hypocrites.

Take a moment and remember back to the speeches. Remember the feeling that finally, someone who gets it and will bring some sanity to government. Now the truth is out and he is dead set on destroying this country. Yet you still support him. Why? WTF is wrong with you people?

Re:Is he insane?? (1)

serviscope_minor (664417) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164307)

One of the worst countries regarding to human rights, freedom of press etc.

Um so? They're bad to their own people, but they have no call to do anything to him. Quite the opposite since Putin so very much enjoys trolling the US. Yes Russia is bad, but Snowden was revealing the huge amount of illegal stuff that the US and it's normally moderately good on human rights allies were doing.

So what would you have him do, given that many places would deny him entry or turn him over to the US. And the US hasn't exactly had a great record on these things recently. On average is is very much better than Russia, and there is no denying that. For partulat cases it is still very, very bad (see e.g. gitmo, the CIA "extraordinary renditions" and the treatment of Manning).

So now he has done the brave and difficult thing of revaling massive scale illegal activities, he has the choice of going to an on average good country which likes to shoot or at least torture the messenger or an on very average bad country which would like to see him alive and well just to antagonise the US.

He's done the good deed and now his ass is on the line. What would you do?

Snowden isn't stateless (3, Informative)

cold fjord (826450) | 1 year,21 days | (#44163949)

Having a passport canceled doesn't effect citizenship. Snowden's statement is rubbish on that point.

Prepared to issue one-entry travel document to Snowden: US [business-standard.com]

"We reject - you've heard Assange say earlier that he's sort of marooned in Russia. That's not true. We're prepared to issue one-entry travel document. He's still a US citizen. He still enjoys the rights of his US citizenship, which include the right to a free and fair trial for the crimes he's been accused of," the State Department spokesperson, Patrick Ventrell, told reporters at his daily news conference yesterday.

"We reject the notion that this is some sort of political prosecution. Indeed, it's not. These are serious crimes, serious violations of his obligations, and as somebody who had access to classified information, and so our position is that he needs to face a free and fair trial and not be a fugitive," Ventrell said.

You're putting words in his mouth. (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164005)

And using bad grammar while you're at it.

Snowden never said canceling a passport <em>affects</em> citizenship. He did say, however, that the US government was using his citizenship as a weapon.

Think, then post.

STUPID asshat. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164057)

uh, he said it makes him 'stateless'

DERP

Snowden isn't stateless (0)

cold fjord (826450) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164099)

Allow me to draw your attention to this line from: Statement from Edward Snowden in Moscow [wikileaks.org]

"Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person. "

Maybe you can change that last line to: Read, then post.

Re:Snowden isn't stateless (2, Interesting)

rwv (1636355) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164031)

he needs to face a free and fair trial

With a jury of his peers? I won't comment on whether the whistle-blower or the government is wrong here, but I would be very interested if a group of Average Joe's were given a chance to make a ruling with respect to the rights that a government has to keep details of its surveillance program secret.

Re:Snowden isn't stateless (0)

TWiTfan (2887093) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164197)

I would be very interested if a group of Average Joe's were given a chance to make a ruling with respect to the rights that a government has to keep details of its surveillance program secret.

"Average Joe's" in the U.S. probably don't even know what the 4th Amendment is, much less how to apply it.

Re:Snowden isn't stateless (1)

Pecisk (688001) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164327)

I don't see how this goes together - his breach of contracts and laws is very little to do with surveillance program itself, and therefore I don't see how it is related in any way.

As Edward's supporter you probably would like to spin it in political statement again, but please resist, because this ship has sailed.

Re:Snowden isn't stateless (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164067)

The executive branch of the united states has made it public that they feel its within their rights to capture, torture, and murder "US citizens" that they feel are an "imminent threat" to the United States. Which they clearly feel Snowden is. Snowden IS a US citizen, his state however, has forsaken him.

Re:Snowden isn't stateless (2)

cold fjord (826450) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164203)

Snowden IS a US citizen, his state however, has forsaken him.

By no means. Forsaken means to abandon, or give up. The US hasn't done that, they have been trying to bring him back to the US the whole time.

they feel its within their rights to capture, torture, and murder "US citizens" that they feel are an "imminent threat"

Capture or kill, not torture or murder. I hadn't heard that Snowden had taken up arms against the US, or was directly aiding anyone who had. I doubt very much that he is subject to being killed, at least apart from possible judicial sentencing.

Re:Snowden isn't stateless (3, Informative)

AHuxley (892839) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164399)

Yes Charlie, the image of a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_and_Mitchell_defection [wikipedia.org] (1960 NSA cryptologists)
or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Spies [wikipedia.org] is been held up by a tame US mainstream media and warmed over rewritten talking points.
The US telco/ad/VoIP/chat brands and their support for bulk domestic access is now just part of life.
Snowden joins an impressive list of people:
http://cryptome.org/2013-info/06/whistleblowing/whistleblowing.htm [cryptome.org]

Wait a minute! (1)

Ihlosi (895663) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164331)

He still enjoys the rights of his US citizenship, which include the right to a free and fair trial for the crimes he's been accused of

This is now considered a right of US citizens, not a human right in general? I think I need to change my travel plans...

(What's a 'free' trial anyway? Is that 'free' as in 'beer', or some other type of 'free'?)

Withdrawn? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44163951)

UK Guardian reporting he changed his mind following Putin's comments... http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/02/edward-snowden-nsa-withdraws-asylum-russia-putin

What an crybaby (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44163955)

A passport is not the same thing as citizenship. Since he has successfully applied for asylum in many places, I don't see how his right to seek asylum is denied. This is just another Assange level crybaby in action. If he was so unbowed, etc. he would come for a trial willingly.

Re:What an crybaby (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164023)

Lets see you travel with your citizenship and no passport.

Re:What an crybaby (1)

Cenan (1892902) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164089)

Millions of people do that every year, this particular refugee was just dumb enough to start attention whoring before he was in a safe haven.

Re:What an crybaby (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164187)

Yes they do, and you whine about them crossing the borders when the truth is we are all immigrants from somewhere, an asteroid, some goo in the ocean, or Mars.

It Was Obvious Snowden Didn't Write That (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44163957)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/07/01/some-see-julian-assanges-hand-in-new-snowden-statement/

Wikileaks wrote and edited that statement, its becoming clear Snowden has submitted himself to be Wikileaks' useful idiot and pawn in their larger game.

It is really so sad, he has lost any sympathy for his case by associating with that organization.

Asylum (2)

benjfowler (239527) | 1 year,21 days | (#44163961)

The right to asylum has been under attack for quite a while now; this is hardly news.

I'm happy to be explained the difference between 1) seeking asylum fleeing politically-motivated charges, versus 2) fleeing criminal charges, albeit, for offences committed with a political motivation.

Re:Asylum (2)

Prokur (2445102) | 1 year,21 days | (#44163997)

In Soviet Russia asylum seeks you!

Re:Asylum (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164035)

1) No trial.
2) With trial.

Americans will never defend their constitution (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44163969)

Americans will never defend their constitution, that has been proven for decades of abuses.

Land of the fat and LAZY.

The dream died years ago, I still have no idea why people still believe it is still a dream country.

Re:Americans will never defend their constitution (2)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164097)

Inertia. The center of empire, always building on the outskirts of the old collapsing one, had shifted from Europe to the Us and is now shifting to China. The world is learning a terrible lesson that there's more to freedom than freedom of speech. What good is it if every economic action is contained, proscribed, and approaching a corrupt state where you must get on bended knee to do anything?

Getting desperate? (4, Informative)

ark1 (873448) | 1 year,21 days | (#44163985)

Apparently he withdrew [nbcnews.com] his asylum request after Putin asked him to stop leaking more secrets. Funny he would consider it in the first place knowing that Russians are likely much worst when it comes to surveillance of their own citizens. Can't see many nations wanting him at this time.

Re:Getting desperate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164003)

You would be desperate in his position too.

Re:Getting desperate? (3, Insightful)

benjfowler (239527) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164049)

Putin is a pragmatist. He no doubt has some very good reasons for wanting him to shut up. If they harbour him, then everyone's ire will be turned on the Russians. Russia wants to be seen as a big, serious player, not as a rogue state.

And Snowden himself doesn't seem to have the brains to not shit in his own nest.

Re:Getting desperate? (3, Insightful)

Cenan (1892902) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164145)

Everyone's ire is directed at the US, and it will stay that way regardless of which country, if any, eventually grants him asylum. Ultimately, Snowden's fate is completely irrelevant to the rest of the World, it will only affect the potential whistleblowers who come after him. Setting an example with his case is strictly an internal US affair.

Re:Getting desperate? (2, Informative)

Pecisk (688001) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164295)

Problem is he isn't whistle blower, but leaker, t.i. I'm yet to see anything to have "criminal charges" resonate outside of casual leftist forum message in web. He copied bunch of documents, most of them honeypot level. So what? It renewed discussion of NSA and laws it operates with, fine, it would be nice to have productive outcome from it (from example, having secret courts and legal opinions is just wrong). However, neither majority of electorate has wish to touch this issue, nor their representatives care about it. Even so, Snowden's run and farce with public announcements has destroyed any goodwill he would have from general public when he will hit court room (and he will).

Re:Getting desperate? (3, Insightful)

Registered Coward v2 (447531) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164165)

Putin is a pragmatist. He no doubt has some very good reasons for wanting him to shut up. If they harbour him, then everyone's ire will be turned on the Russians. Russia wants to be seen as a big, serious player, not as a rogue state.

And Snowden himself doesn't seem to have the brains to not shit in his own nest.

More to the point: Putin is a former intelligence officer. While he certainly is open to obtaining information that would help Russia; he is probably has little respect for people who commit espionage against their country and little trust that they will stay loyal to Russia if he grants asylum. He's a pro, and will do whatever is best for Putin and Russia. At this point, he probably thinks the downside isn't worth it. No matter what our personal opinions are of Snowden's actions; we can probably agree he is really screwed.

Re:Getting desperate? (0)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164115)

I wonder is a secret Swiss bank account number just got handed to Putin. How much do you suspect was in it? Regardless it sure as hell wouldn't be rubles. That's for the domestic serfs.

Re:Getting desperate? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164185)

Money and bank accounts are for serfs. Putin has and wants power.

Re:Getting desperate? (1)

dj245 (732906) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164217)

Can't see many nations wanting him at this time.

There are plenty of nations that love to poke the US in the eye and don't cooperate with the US. I can name half a dozen, and I've heard that he is in contact with about 20. If he were on Iranian, North Korean, Cuban, Venezuela, Ecuador, etc soil he would be fine. The difficult issue is extracting him from where he is now. Putting somebody in your pocket is one thing. Removing him out of someone else's pocket is quite another.

A day late, but... (3, Informative)

Xest (935314) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164007)

This news is a day late. Since this happened Putin told him he can't leak anything else if he wants to stay in Russia so he's withdrawn his request to Russia.

As for the US breaching article 14 I don't think it matters anymore, they've long thrown articles 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11 and 12 out the window in the last decade and no one did anything so of course they'll try and get away with violating the rest despite being a signatory to the UDHR.

But in this case they're also now violating article 13, which states that:

"Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each State.

Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country."

Revoking Snowden's passport also violates this from what I can see as by removing his passport they're removing his right to travel and hence to leave Russia.

Or in other words the US has pretty much now completely thrown the de-facto document on basic levels of standards of human rights entirely out the window.

As each year goes on they're breaching a new article, when they do that how can they realistically preach to any other nation on human rights? How can they pretend to have the moral high ground next time a blind Chinese human rights activist turns up at their embassy and they claim they should be allowed to let him go to the US against China's will?

Re:A day late, but... (5, Informative)

ark1 (873448) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164073)

Revoking Snowden's passport also violates this from what I can see as by removing his passport they're removing his right to travel and hence to leave Russia.

Or in other words the US has pretty much now completely thrown the de-facto document on basic levels of standards of human rights entirely out the window.

Owning a passport/travelling between countries is a privilege not a right. When someone is suspected of a crime and there is a good chance this person may seek to leave the country to evade prosecution, the passport will be revoked. Snowden is not a special snowflake to warrant a different treatment.

Re:A day late, but... (2, Insightful)

geogob (569250) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164173)

You don't revoke passports. Once you arrested someone, the judge may decide to retain the travel documents to avoid that person fleeing justice. But the passport is not revoked, it is confiscated. And that is done once the person is arrested, not while the person is sitting somewhere in the world in a transit area.

Revoking a passport is quite extreme and I have never heard of such action. It is not the usual way to pursue international criminals. Thus it is a different treatment.

Re:A day late, but... (2)

ark1 (873448) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164247)

You don't revoke passports. Once you arrested someone, the judge may decide to retain the travel documents to avoid that person fleeing justice. But the passport is not revoked, it is confiscated. And that is done once the person is arrested, not while the person is sitting somewhere in the world in a transit area.

Revoking a passport is quite extreme and I have never heard of such action. It is not the usual way to pursue international criminals. Thus it is a different treatment.

Passport Canada [ppt.gc.ca] (US must have something similar) has a description of actions that may get your passport revoked. At this point I think he does fall in there.

Re:A day late, but... (1)

Xest (935314) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164223)

So if it's a privilege not a right then why is it defined as a human right in the UDHR which the US was active in both writing and voting for? The problem is they're not stopping him leaving the US for committing a crime there, they're stopping him travelling full stop by revoking his passport. That's not quite the same as a court forcing surrender of travel documents.

What about Chen Guangcheng? He was deemed a criminal in China but the US seemed to have no problem with arguing to get him out of the country? Is it only okay to support the UDHR which the US voted for when we're talking about foreigners?

There still seems to be a certain degree of extreme double standards here whatever the technicalities are.

Re:A day late, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164085)

When someone is accused of a crime and is deemed a "flight risk", surrendering their passport is pretty standard practice. Snowden is a accused of espionage, and has pretty well demonstrated that he's a "flight risk", having already fled the country.

He's admitted to serious crimes, and now he's crying because the U.S. won't let him run away from facing a trial? Does he even hear himself?

As others have said (1)

arcite (661011) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164135)

If Snowden walked into the US Embassy in Moscow, they would issue him travel pass for a one way ticket back to the States in about 5 minutes. That he an international fugitive on the run probably has more to do with his reluctance.

Isaiah.. (-1, Offtopic)

MickLinux (579158) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164229)

59:1.Surely the arm of the Lord is not too short to save,
nor his ear too dull to hear.
2.But your iniquities have separated
you from your God;
your sins have hidden his face from you,
so that he will not hear.
3.For your hands are stained with blood,
your fingers with guilt.
Your lips have spoken falsely,
and your tongue mutters wicked things.
4.No one calls for justice;
no one pleads a case with integrity.
They rely on empty arguments, they utter lies;
they conceive trouble and give birth to evil.
5.They hatch the eggs of vipers
and spin a spiderâ(TM)s web.
Whoever eats their eggs will die,
and when one is broken, an adder is hatched.
6.Their cobwebs are useless for clothing;
they cannot cover themselves with what they make.
Their deeds are evil deeds,
and acts of violence are in their hands.
7.Their feet rush into sin;
they are swift to shed innocent blood.
They pursue evil schemes;
acts of violence mark their ways.
8.The way of peace they do not know;
there is no justice in their paths.
They have turned them into crooked roads;
no one who walks along them will know peace.
9.So justice is far from us,
and righteousness does not reach us.
We look for light, but all is darkness;
for brightness, but we walk in deep shadows.
10.Like the blind we grope along the wall,
feeling our way like people without eyes.
At midday we stumble as if it were twilight;
among the strong, we are like the dead.
11.We all growl like bears;
we moan mournfully like doves.
We look for justice, but find none;
for deliverance, but it is far away.
12.For our offenses are many in your sight,
and our sins testify against us.
Our offenses are ever with us,
and we acknowledge our iniquities:
13.rebellion and treachery against the Lord,
turning our backs on our God,
inciting revolt and oppression,
uttering lies our hearts have conceived.
14.So justice is driven back,
and righteousness stands at a distance;
truth has stumbled in the streets,
honesty cannot enter.
15.Truth is nowhere to be found,
and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey.
The Lord looked and was displeased
that there was no justice.
16.He saw that there was no one,
he was appalled that there was no one to intervene;

Re:A day late, but... (1)

mitcheli (894743) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164421)

This is really fascinating... <off topic>In unrelated thoughts, the US currently has a law on the books called the Bradley Amendment, which defines child support enforcement mechanisms at the Federal Level. One of those provisions that states are allowed to do is to revoke passports for individuals that are behind on their child support. Curious how this treaty affects implementation of the Brandley Amendment and whether or not a fight in court at the State level (and theoretically to the Federal level) would play out if challenged against this...<\off topic> I think I'll have to do more reading on this...

Amateur... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164041)

Snowden is a fucking mess, dumbass motherfucker...

What did he expected? Release top secret files and 45 days later travel around the world like nothing happened?
He should have everything in place BEFORE he started all this shit storm...

And there is people that call this stupid moron a "hero"... Jesus.

Re: Amateur... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164111)

NSA template response #1435-33

Re: Amateur... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164175)

The fact that you know this is a template response, makes your response a template response. otherwise how would you know that it is a template?

Just the accusation implies knowledge that you can not have unless you are an insider. Which means that you are either making things up (Most Likely) or an agent Provocateur (unlikely but much worse).

Both options mean that you should be ignored...

Re:Amateur... (1)

geogob (569250) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164179)

At least, he's not an Anonymous Coward, making such bold statements.

Re:Amateur... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164345)

Knowledge Is Free.
We Are Anonymous.
We Are Legion.
We Do Not Forgive.
We Do Not Forget.
Expect Us.

PS: I still have my passport...

Political In Russi (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164053)

Awesome post
  thanks
http://itunerbd.blogspot.com
  http://makeyourwon.blogspot.com
  http://keygenbd.blogspot.com

Norway (4, Informative)

beaverdownunder (1822050) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164059)

Re:Norway (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164139)

Revoked, as well as shitloads of others.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23145887

BBC NEWS KEEPIN IT REAL (R)

Re:Norway (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164319)

no http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/02/edward-snowden-nsa-asylum-application-list-countries

Russian application withdrawn (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164063)

Another article saying the Russian application was withdrawn:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23145887

What is it really all about? (2)

3seas (184403) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164095)

Abstractions... nothing more.... physical reality is only influenced by abstractions to the extent human action is connected to them. To understand this is to know its about excuses to use nothing more than brute force physically.

The Obama Adminastration is not a US governemnt but the government the founders wrote and warned us about when they wrote the Declaration of Independence. And they gave us instructions as to what to do about it. Recognizing its not only our right to do something about it but our Duty to.

So what does this do for Snowden? Plenty know, though the Obama Administration is in denial about it.

As Nelson would say (0)

C_Kode (102755) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164129)

Haha.

Hypocrite (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#44164167)

So he supposedly "martyred" himself for freedom, and yet has no qualms about living in countries that are much more oppressive than the US. Hypocrite, pure and simple.

Re:Hypocrite (5, Insightful)

1s44c (552956) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164431)

So he supposedly "martyred" himself for freedom, and yet has no qualms about living in countries that are much more oppressive than the US. Hypocrite, pure and simple.

He applied for Asylum in a few countries that are less oppressive than the US too.

But it's not a hypocritical act to sacrifice yourself so that others may have greater freedom.

Circus and farce (2, Insightful)

Pecisk (688001) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164169)

Sorry guys, I know you want to fight oppression, corporations, evil governments and what else, but level of cheese coming out of Assange and now Snowden is making me puke. Seriously, a stateless person? Passport is *document*, not nationality or citizenship. It is revoked when you have lost formal trust of country it has been issued by (regular procedure for accused runaways). Edward, you already invalidating anything you have said before (except factual leaked docs), because your intent is to speculate emotionally.

What he really thought will happen after his identification as the source? That everybody will jump out of joy when he will ask for political asylum? That he will have capability to travel after identifying himself? What is this with this childish behavior?

This is so much fun! (1)

Andover Chick (1859494) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164181)

An international thriller unfolding day-by-day. A nerd on the run in exotic locations. Every morning there are dozens of fascinating stories in the news. Awesome!

This is getting to be an interesting show... (2, Interesting)

ducomputergeek (595742) | 1 year,21 days | (#44164221)

If he wanted to blame someone, I'd blame the folks at Wikileaks who advised him to travel from Hong Kong to Russia in the first place. Apparently they told him they'd find him a place for Asylum and it seems they couldn't deliver.

Sorry, but part of civil disobedience is a willingness to suffer the consequences as just or unjust as they maybe. That's what sets people like Gandhi, Mandela and MLKjr apart from this guy. They took their stands and paid the price of their stands.

Some want to lift this guy up as some kind of hero. Others a criminal and traitor. I've held the position that he's both. At least until he begins giving up operational tradecraft information then I start to lean more towards criminal. It's one thing to bring to light what is going on in generalities.

Although I'm getting a laugh at the coming out of the EU being up and arms about our spying on them, especially the French. After all the DGSE is the only intelligence service I know of that publically publishes the fact that 25% of their budget is spent on industrial espionage to help French businesses.

At any rate, glad we can all be focused on this little side drama as opposed to the meat of the story: mainly the spying programs that the NSA have been engaged in. Funny how just a week later that's been pushed from the news headlines. If this wasn't enough to get people into the streets with pitchforks and willing to tar and feather the lot of them in DC I guess nothing will. It was a nice republic, too bad we couldn't keep it.

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