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EU Parliament Supports Suspending US Data Sharing

Soulskill posted about a year ago | from the taking-their-toys-and-going-home dept.

United States 153

New submitter egladil writes "As seen previously here on Slashdot, the European Parliament was to vote on 'whether existing data sharing agreements between the two continents should be suspended, following allegations that U.S. intelligence spied on E.U. citizens.' With the votes now having been cast, the result is 483 in favor of the resolution and 98 against, while 65 abstained. The resolution in question in part called for the U.S. 'to suspend and review any laws and surveillance programs that "violate the fundamental right of E.U. citizens to privacy and data protection," as well as Europe's "sovereignty and jurisdiction."' It also decided that the E.U. should investigate the surveillance of E.U. citizens, and finally gave backing to the European Commision in case they should decide to suspend the data sharing deals currently in place with the U.S., such as the Passenger Name Record and Terrorist Finance Tracking Program agreements. The question now is whether the E.U. commision will go through with suspending these deals or not."

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... More effort than ... ? (5, Insightful)

DavidClarkeHR (2769805) | about a year ago | (#44194049)

Well, it doesn't seem like much, but it's more than the american people have done in response.

Or maybe it's not MORE, but it's certainly more visible.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194101)

http://www.restorethefourth.net/

Re:... More effort than ... ? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194129)

http://www.restorethefourth.net/

Wow. Someone registered a domain, made an image on photoshop ... I wasn't even aware of it until you posted it. I think that proves my point (hey, representative sample of ONE is okay according to fox news standards).

Re:... More effort than ... ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194249)

fox news

Good, good. Let the butthurt flow through you.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194459)

They have to attack fox news more vehemently than ever these days since NBC/MSNBC have been openly exposed as far left propaganda machines who will go so far as to doctor video and audio in order to push the agenda.

"Faux" news indeed.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194613)

Oh, so it's okay if other stations do it, too? I guess that's the "balanced" part of "fair and balanced."

Re:... More effort than ... ? (2)

Wookact (2804191) | about a year ago | (#44194655)

See you posted AC because you know people can supply just as much evidence that Faux does the same thing.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (3, Insightful)

Curunir_wolf (588405) | about a year ago | (#44195039)

See you posted AC because you know people can supply just as much evidence that Faux does the same thing.

All the legacy media is compromised. All of it. The redeeming characteristic of Fox News is that the bias and propaganda is so obvious you don't even have to pay attention to see it going on. Many of the legacy media outlets are very good at appearing neutral while they lie and twist facts to fit their agenda. You have to research or have knowledge of the topic to see it, they are some very good media experts in the field and they make it all seem completely reasonable on the surface.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (5, Interesting)

Jade_Wayfarer (1741180) | about a year ago | (#44194123)

Right, even if that doesn't look truly sincere and likely will have no long-lasting consequences for anybody it is still something. Maybe it's one of the positive sides of having this many parties in EU - if "bigger fish" would try to ignore this issue, smaller parties will get more support on the next elections, so everybody has to do something (or, at least, pretend to do something good enough). Pirate Party is surely going to rally their supporters over this issue.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (2)

Pendletoncils (2834733) | about a year ago | (#44194171)

As a European I'm not sure what to think of this. I was more shocked about the fact that so many people thought that an organisation like the NSA was able to do their work by reading public blogs and newspapers, than I was about the actual PRISM news. Now it's just waiting for the next big terrorist attack which able to amass funds because of the EU no longer data sharing.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194213)

if moving money for criminals was actually hard then I doubt usa would be having such a mexican gang problem...

the question is - why can't we get american raw banking data? note that you could always request specific data and law enforcement co-operation. but in fundamental it's kinda stupid if the fbi has more access to banking data of poland than what german cops have, don't you think?

Re:... More effort than ... ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194235)

Wouldn't have any effect at all on amassing funds.

Lots of it already goes through money laundering in Arabic countries.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (1)

cbs4385 (929248) | about a year ago | (#44194801)

not sure why you say arabic countries...

HSBC Holdings P.L.C. is a British multinational banking and financial services organisation headquartered in London, United Kingdom and is one of the world's largest banks. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC]

"HSBC ... [has] resolved charges accusing the bank of having become 'preferred financial institution' for South American drug cartels"
[http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jul/03/hsbc-money-laundering-settlement-approved]

Re:... More effort than ... ? (1)

1s44c (552956) | about a year ago | (#44194407)

As a European I'm not sure what to think of this. I was more shocked about the fact that so many people thought that an organisation like the NSA was able to do their work by reading public blogs and newspapers, than I was about the actual PRISM news.
Now it's just waiting for the next big terrorist attack which able to amass funds because of the EU no longer data sharing.

Nonsense. To be a successful terrorist you don't need a big pile of money, you just need to be willing to die for your cause. How much does it cost to make nailbombs? Or shoot people? Less than a lot of people spend every day, that's how much.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194695)

To be fair, most agencies openly admit that the "lone wolf" terrorist is virtually impossible to catch. Fortunately, their impact is typically limited by what they can carry, especially if funding is an issue.

The threat that these regulations were meant to address originates from well-organized and well-funded groups, which require the transfer of fairly large sums of money to carry out broad and highly destructive attacks. Whether or not they are effective at doing so is another matter entirely.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (1)

RockDoctor (15477) | about a year ago | (#44194805)

Nonsense. To be a successful terrorist you don't need a big pile of money, you just need to be willing to die for your cause.

Only if your definition of "successful" doesn't include "alive", which it does for most non-psychopaths and non-religious.

If you want to be both successful and a terrorist ... that probably does take a little more cash, because you need to be able to stand-off from your targets, recruit psychopaths, get away, etc.

How much does it cost to make nailbombs? Or shoot people? Less than a lot of people spend every day, that's how much.

Out here in the civilized world, the difficulty is not the cost of explosives or ammunition, it's getting access to the explosives or ammunition. Getting access to guns is also pretty tricky. (Of course, if you can get ammunition, then you've got explosives, and quite good ones, so I treat guns and ammunition/explosives as distinct problems.) Unless, of course, you're already a criminal.

According to the prices that I hear, a pretty shitty converted-replica machine gun is going to set you back over a month's pre-tax income, and ammunition is separate. An actual military grade working weapon will be considerably more expensive, and ammunition correspondingly expensive. PowerGel demolition explosive is quite cheap, but getting a license to buy it (or getting some from someone with a license to buy it) is much harder.

Of course, you could always go to America, where they give you a gun as an incentive to open a bank account.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44195345)

Nonsense. You can buy explosive on almost any street corner in Europe. It's called gasoline, or petrol.

Sure, it takes a little bit of ingenuity to mix with air to make a really big bang, but not a lot. Plenty of other things that will also work with not much effort.

Re: ... More effort than ... ? (1)

Mabhatter (126906) | about a year ago | (#44194883)

This is going to slow the NSA collecting information down just how much? All they have to do is spy on a few more EU offices. EU offices don't seem to be taking the thing very seriously anyway if they were acting do "surprised" about it.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (4, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | about a year ago | (#44194177)

This wasn't "the EU people" it was their legislative body. The US legislative bodies are complicit with what has been going on. While one side feigns outrage at the other party's activities, it can be demonstrated that both parties participated willingly in what's been going on. When Republicans ruled, the Democrats pretended to be outraged and even to "do away" with the constitutionlly illegal activites. But once in charge, the Democrats didn't do away with the illegal activities (and I just say CRIMES for brevity?) and then intensified them.

So to say the "EU people" did more than the "US people" is a bit misleading. But to say that the EU government is more responsive to the need to support their own laws would be extremely accurate to point out and a well deserved shaming.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (1)

stenvar (2789879) | about a year ago | (#44194431)

So to say the "EU people" did more than the "US people" is a bit misleading.

The "EU people" are doing the same thing the "US people" are doing: they are both outraged at the NSA.

However, who the "EU people" should be outraged at is their own governments that keep spying on them and don't protect them from the NSA.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (3, Insightful)

Nerdfest (867930) | about a year ago | (#44194467)

If the deals violated the fundamental rights of EU citizens, people should probably be asking how they were made in the first place as well. Something is obviously broken.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (1)

stenvar (2789879) | about a year ago | (#44194545)

As I was saying: Europeans should complain about and to their own governments, because that's where the source of the problem is.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (1)

timeOday (582209) | about a year ago | (#44194587)

US people (in general) are NOT outraged at the NSA. I have seen no sign that they are. In instituting the program our elected officials made the judgment that most people would rather have a small, or hoped-for, increase in security rather than retain their privacy, and so far it appears they were right.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (1)

stenvar (2789879) | about a year ago | (#44194749)

2/3 of Americans want a congressional investigation, and a slight majority oppose having Snowden charged.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/06/19/poll-public-wants-congressional-hearings-on-nsa-surveillance/ [washingtonpost.com]

Americans are largely split on the issue of whether they support the spy program, except for Democrats who simply can't bring themselves to criticize their Blessed Leader in any way.

Several US civil liberties organizations have already filed suit against the program. Anything like that happening in Europe? Didn't think so.

Re: ... More effort than ... ? (2, Interesting)

Mabhatter (126906) | about a year ago | (#44194963)

You cannot file suit agains these because they are SECRET. A suit has to have DEFINATE act toons and personnel. Some lines on a PowerPoint won't cut it.

The NSA and CIA are not "police" and they were chartered outside the Constitution way back in the 50's and 60's when FREEDOM was at its peak! to prove damage, a citizen would have to have a CRIMINAL TRIAL EFFECTED by this illegally obtained information. You only have rights against the government USING illegally obtained information in courts. As these are SPIES, that's not going to happen.

You can fault the Patriot Act for mixing up spy works and anti-terrorist work, and regular police work. as well as mixing up the terminology used improperly by media and regular police to "sound like" they were "national security" agencies. These programs are owned by the NSA and not even subject to the petty FISA court playtime.

Re: ... More effort than ... ? (1)

stenvar (2789879) | about a year ago | (#44195605)

Instead of wildly speculating, why don't you just search on what the EFF lawsuit is about. You'll be surprised.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (2)

timeOday (582209) | about a year ago | (#44195235)

But "outrage" is something else - it is something that rises to the level of being a voting issue. Voters may not like the program, but they are not outraged, and our elected officials (especially the President) are not humiliated and discredited like they will be if there is a big terrorist attack like 9/11. So they are choosing the safest path... the "safest" from Benghazi-style retroactive finger-pointing, that is.

Anyways, I do find the reversal of values in the poll you linked to be fascinating, particularly that suddenly more Democrats than Republicans favor running somebody up the flag pole for leaking.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (1)

BrokenHalo (565198) | about a year ago | (#44194843)

I have to say, I'm pretty appalled at the degree of hypocrisy Obama has shown on this issue. OK, I'm not a US citizen, so I don't get to vote there, but there was a time when he showed a certain amount of promise as a leader with some moral backbone. However, I can't say I'm very surprised. Obama is (or was) also a successful lawyer, which puts him in an unscrupulous bracket of humanity.

I hope he's planning on returning that Nobel Peace Prize.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (1)

stenvar (2789879) | about a year ago | (#44194895)

Obama was lying through his teeth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZf8_Cd6H9k [youtube.com]

(But European leaders are lying through their teeth too.)

Re:... More effort than ... ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194531)

If you could vote a third party into power on the sate level instead of these Spy vs. Spy clowns you would start to see change.

End SWIFT data+ Safe Harbor (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194703)

Seconded, there was outrage that Bush had helped himself to SWIFT data, all the internal EU transaction data. Lots of commercial secrets, lots of chances to spy on EU people was handed over with that data.

So SWIFT moved the servers to Switzerland to protect us and quell the outrage. And USA asked the EU Commission for the data on EU bank transfers officially, "to catch terrorists".

Of course the only answer is 'no', it would be as ridiculous, as if the US gave us all *their* banking data so EU could check them for terrorists!

And yet Barosso of the EU Commission handed all our data over to the US saying it was the only way to check for terrorists.
Since when have terrorists been big bank transaction users? Terror attacks are cheap and terrorists use cash. It was just an excuse.

----------

Same with the 'safe harbor', companies can't ship data out of EU unless its to a country with the same level of privacy protections. US got a get-out of this law, called the "safe harbor". Why? Either the law applies or it doesn't, why should US companies be able to piss all over our privacy?

-----

Then we did SEPA (to replace SWIFT), it was driven by the Germans. I always believed we worked on it because the Germans didn't trust the EU Commission. SEPA data would be in Germany in Frankfurt. Germany doesn't accept any of these "give US all your data" agreements, not the 'Safe Harbor" not the data retention directives (which came from UK leader Tony 'Bush-Poodle' Blair).

SEPA will be compulsory next year, and this year we had those 'off shore banking' leaks to the newspapers which look like SWIFT data leaking.
Newspapers got the min-leaks, while US allies, like UK got the full data, a much bigger set of data that's large enough to cover every transaction, not just Caymen islands and other rich peoples bank accounts, but all internal and world transactions. That looks like the US was leaking our SWIFT data to its allies.
I guess the game there was to create the "money laundering" agenda, then UK to get SEPA on the excuse of anti-money laundering and UK hands USA all our internal bank data in secret again (was that the plan?). That's what I think they were aiming for with that leak.

The SWIFT data transfer needs to be ended now. EU bank transactions are EU commercial secrets, and not the business of a competing trading nation.
Safe Harbor needs to end now, any promises made have been broken, companies need to be liable for the data protection, if they can't protect it in US, move it to EU, hold it in an EU company and protect it from USA that way.

Flight passenger records, I would hope it's only flights that are going to the US, not other flights. Russia wants the same data, if you give USA more than the absolute minimum, then EU will end up sending Russia more than the absolute minimum too. e.g. Americans flying to Britain might be demanded by Russia if America get details of Russian flying to Italy.
So the data has to be only the flights that go to that country and no where else.

EU needs to get its privacy shit together. USA has more serious problems than privacy, when you can't even get to see the laws used to grab data on Americans and TV talking heads cover for the military, they have far more serious problems than just privacy. /rant

Re:... More effort than ... ? (1)

Patch86 (1465427) | about a year ago | (#44195493)

As an EU citizen, I'm outraged by it. And my duly elected representatives are representing my outrage correctly and doing something about it.

What are your duly elected representatives doing for you right now? And if the answer is not a satisfactory one, what are you doing about it?

Re:... More effort than ... ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194211)

These politicians seem to work pretty fast to CYA when their own privacy are at stake. I hope they would do more to limit their own spying to their own citizen.

BTW They forgot to add "unfriend the US" on that list. ;)

Re:... More effort than ... ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194927)

What are the American people to do? Obviously if they do anything of significant, they risk being the object of a man-hunt. Mix that with the fact that not many are in positions to find more info, not many have much money (despite what others may think, most Americans are in a lot of debt), not many understand what could be done, had they the money, or info anyway.

To put this on the people of America, seems to only give them one choice, stop acting as an American. And that's probably not going to happen. Other countries need to put pressure on this government, as they're not going to be treated the same as a "disobedient American" would be treated.

Re:... More effort than ... ? (2)

ideonexus (1257332) | about a year ago | (#44195173)

It's a nice act, but isn't it a little on the hypocritical side considering France has just been exposed as having an equally egregious citizen-spying program in place [guardian.co.uk] ? I'm glad the EU-legislation is doing something, but it sounds like they need to now pass a resolution condemning the program going on inside their own borders. Everyone should be outraged at PRISM, but everyone should also be outraged that France was condemning the United States for running a program they themselves were secretly running as well.

Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194081)

If you want the data, you'll have to come get them like the thieving false friends that you are.

Re:Good (1)

Chrisq (894406) | about a year ago | (#44194097)

If you want the data, you'll have to come get them like the thieving false friends that you are.

I take it you don't work for GCHQ

Re:Good (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194135)

The same resolution also addresses the betrayal by the Brits.

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194309)

As if the Europeans don't do the same thing to everyone else. Good grief.

Re:Good (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194441)

Exactly. Dubya and Obummer are just following in the grand history of You're-a-peein secret police forces and espionage. That any acts like the Eurotrash countries have been any better with respect to human rights and privacy are pig ignorant tards.

Re:Good (1)

Sique (173459) | about a year ago | (#44194549)

The U.S. and the Brits were violating the 11th commandment: "Don't get caught!" So far, it's only an unproven allegation that for instance the Germans are spying on the U.S.. The U.S., by urgently trying to get hold of Edward Snowden, were publically admitting to violate the law in most other countries ("most other", because I can't rule out that there is a country that officially allows spying on its own citizens by foreign powers).

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194591)

+1 funny.

All governments spy on each other. That you think otherwise is very cute.

Re:Good (1)

bickerdyke (670000) | about a year ago | (#44194633)

And France. http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/frankreich656.html [tagesschau.de]

And that "austrian" couple that got sentenced to 5 years this tuesday for spying for Russia.

Those last 3 weeks feel like a friggin James-Bond-Cold-War-Era-Spy-novel.

And I've not decided if it would be honesty or stupidity if we find out that our three letter agencys were busy with something else but spying on enemies and allies alike. (and foreigners and citizens alike)

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44195411)

The U.S. and the Brits were violating the 11th commandment: "Don't get caught!" So far, it's only an unproven allegation that for instance the Germans are spying on the U.S.. The U.S., by urgently trying to get hold of Edward Snowden, were publically admitting to violate the law in most other countries ("most other", because I can't rule out that there is a country that officially allows spying on its own citizens by foreign powers).

Where do you get the idea that "spying" is illegal?

Why would freedom to "collect and retain data" EVER need to be an enumerated right in ANYTHING? It's like breathing!

It feels so silly to have this debate on the Internet, about legality of collecting information. Like suddenly, the Internet HAS BORDERS, and on the EU side of the border fence, server logs, transcripts, and all metadata relating to a person is strictly regulated. So when you come over here to the MERICAN side of the Internet fence with no visa, no passport, no ID of any kind, and taint our data pool, we're supposed to know who you are (or are we, WTF?) and respect "your" trail of data turds you left behind.

Re:Good (1)

c0lo (1497653) | about a year ago | (#44194715)

As if the Europeans don't do the same thing to everyone else. Good grief.

Well, in retaliation, US can stop sending the Passenger Name Records to EU.

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44195457)

Next time someone says "it's the evil administration, but the American people are alright", I'll point them to this topic, where hardly anyone doesn't defend the administration. You guys (the people AND the administration) truly are not our friends.

They should buy the data from U.S. instead (2)

Mondor (704672) | about a year ago | (#44194083)

Something tells me, that U.S. might have more information about E.U. citizens and stuff, than E.U. governments have.

Re:They should buy the data from U.S. instead (5, Insightful)

Vanderhoth (1582661) | about a year ago | (#44194165)

I think that's kind of part of the problem here. The U.S. is far more, and far too, aggressive in collecting data. The E.U., being a collection of countries that have historically spied on each other to very large extents and are now friendly, frowns on that sort of thing. So although I'm sure the E.U. is still doing spying on each other and just putting up this front to cover their tracks. The U.S. got caught because they were greedy for data and careless with it, now they have to pay the piper.

That'll be 50 cents please.

Re:They should buy the data from U.S. instead (1)

stenvar (2789879) | about a year ago | (#44194483)

The E.U., being a collection of countries that have historically spied on each other to very large extents and are now friendly, frowns on that sort of thing.

That's why the British are tapping all EU communications coming through their country, and the French have just been revealed to do the same? And the reason we haven't heard about the Germans doing the same is because German government employees are good little obedient Germans who wouldn't dream of leaking anything, and because the German press generally trivializes such things.

Re:They should buy the data from U.S. instead (3, Informative)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year ago | (#44194259)

Something tells me, that U.S. might have more information about E.U. citizens and stuff, than E.U. governments have.

Essentially that's the gist of the issue. The data sharing goes against the principles of data collection we have in EU, since Americans can't apparently be expected to keep the data out of extra eyes(because as statements by politicians go, they can do anything with it even without warrants or with secret warrants) it would be best to suspend such sharing.

it has potentially many economical impacts if USA has all the data and thinks it is just ok for them to use it for economical advantage and not limit to weeding out "terrorists"(and with the meaning of "terrorist" diluting every day...). basically - and in practice - usa has a map of all the contractual business ties within EU(and even worse is contracting analyzing data to pretty random best buddy outside firms too). add to that if the chinese are really waging a cyyyber war and NSA is so careless with their data then chinese probably have snapshots of the data too.

Re:They should buy the data from U.S. instead (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194469)

It would have been much less of an issue if the data didn't trickle down from NSA to corporate interests.

you got it backwards (0, Troll)

stenvar (2789879) | about a year ago | (#44194525)

I don't know of any case of corporate espionage in which US government agencies were involved. If you do, please provide some examples.

In contrast, France and other European governments have clearly engaged in corporate espionage against US companies and shared that information with their private sectors (search the news).

Boeing and Airbus. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194909)

US Gov gave military intelligence collected data to Boeing on the contract negotiations that Airbus were at that time winning.

Airbus were dropped.

Oh noes, a RESOLUTION!!!! (3, Insightful)

TWiTfan (2887093) | about a year ago | (#44194111)

I'm sure the NSA is quaking in its boots.

So the USA will let this change pass (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194223)

So the USA will let this change pass and not complain and bitch and moan about how it's all a terrible injustice and is necessary for the security of the state, right?

No, you'll officially whine and bitch and moan.

Because it IS a problem for you: you're not the daddy no more.

Re:So the USA will let this change pass (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194227)

Yawn. "Daddy no more"? Are you 7 years old?

D work, at best.

Re:So the USA will let this change pass (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194297)

Nope, this will be ignored by the EC and you Eurotrash will be back to gagging on Obummer's throbbing cock like the cuckolded sissies you are.

Re:So the USA will let this change pass (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194337)

2/10

Re:Oh noes, a RESOLUTION!!!! (1)

Digicaf (48857) | about a year ago | (#44195153)

1. It's less about "data" and more about changing attitudes towards the US and our policies.
2. They may not be quaking, but I guarantee they won't be happy if any regulations along these lines get passed. The last thing they want is more red tape, delays, and crow eating.

As long as they share (1, Flamebait)

Chrisq (894406) | about a year ago | (#44194115)

As long as they share the data about the muzzies then all will be fine

Its just Theatre (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194137)

They are just doing this to keep the people calm... the sharing will continue. Trusting politicians that lied once is like expecting a hungry lion that bit you once... not to bite you again.

Re:Its just Theatre (1)

Pendletoncils (2834733) | about a year ago | (#44194333)

I do not approve of the way you portray hungry lions.

And they found out how? What of the messenger? (4, Insightful)

ElBeano (570883) | about a year ago | (#44194155)

I'll believe it's more than theater when they provide a home for Snowden.

Re:And they found out how? What of the messenger? (1)

squiggleslash (241428) | about a year ago | (#44194573)

The whole thing's ridiculous anyway. A $foreign government is spying on $us? Heavens forfend! That never happens! Why the entire point of intelligence agencies is to sit in closed rooms and update facebook posts or comment on Slashdot articles all day, not to spy on people!

Re:And they found out how? What of the messenger? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44195321)

The whole thing's ridiculous anyway. A $foreign government is spying on $us?

"... Then what good are these data sharing agreements we have drafted? Why did they need these in the first place?"

This isn't (directly) about the data-grabbing the US is doing. It's calling into question the voluntary data sharing the EU is already doing, since obviously cooperation only whets the appetite, and doesn't seem to still the hunger.

Re:And they found out how? What of the messenger? (1)

Alwin Henseler (640539) | about a year ago | (#44194731)

IMHO: If Snowden can help the EU even the slightest bit to determine the extent of US surveillance on EU citizens and institutions, than the value of that info far exceeds the cost of putting him through some sort of witness protection program.

So if EU politicians really care about their own (ehm... citizens' ;-) privacy, that's exactly what they should do. For the sole reason of fact finding, with the EU's public benefit in mind. Giving the US the finger is just icing on the cake.

I'm not so optimistic there... Chances are EU politicians are just as crooked as US ones (well perhaps a *little* bit less), and Snowden will rot somewhere in a 3rd world country or a jail cell. Or have a suspicious but convenient accident / disease / whatever.

Any hope that rests with the European Commission (3, Informative)

Kjella (173770) | about a year ago | (#44194195)

is slim and none. It'd hardly be the first time the Parliament has voted for the right thing but the EC has said "well, we won't do that".

Re:Any hope that rests with the European Commissio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194617)

Exactly. I daresay that's why this resolution passed so easily, like many similar ones at the UN - Everyone involved knows that nothing will come of it so it's politically costless, and perhaps can be translated into a nice mention in a newspaper back home.

They authorized the European Commission? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194215)

I guess that's the end of that. The European Commission has a track record of giving a flying shit about voters and the parliament. It is just interested in keeping the money flowing and won't do anything that would create a hiccup with that.

Without getting ordered by the parliament at least three times in a row, they won't touch any of the agreements in question.

why hypocrites (4, Insightful)

anonieuweling (536832) | about a year ago | (#44194289)

Why was sharing all that data with the USA OK in the `war on terror`?
Why suddenly, when the EU leaders and G20 are spied upon, as it occurs, is this sharing suspended?
Why was it OK to violate privacy of EU citizens because of US demands?
Why doesn't it occur in full yet that the USA are a totalitarian state and that they want to put their views onto the rest of the world?
Why doesn't the EU show willingness to harbour Snowden, Assange and Manning as a gesture of humanitarian nature?
Why doesn't anyone understand that it won't help the USA at all if they incarcerate Manning, Assange and Snowden? The leaking will continue, just with more caution.

Re:why hypocrites (1)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | about a year ago | (#44194461)

You act as if no European government has also been revealed to have done the same thing the NSA has.

Re:why hypocrites (2)

amiga3D (567632) | about a year ago | (#44194585)

The problem is that the EU isn't as good at it.

Re:why hypocrites (1)

amiga3D (567632) | about a year ago | (#44194555)

Here we go again with the over reactions. I love how someone eavesdropping on people is equated with totalitarian rule. Get a sense of proportion will you. Wrong it may be but it's not quite to the point where they're rounding up people for the gas chambers. Leave off with the overblown hysteria please.

Re:why hypocrites (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44195129)

Wrong it may be but it's not quite to the point where they're rounding up people for the gas chambers.

They are actually rounding up predominantly black people without the money to buy themselves justice for the gas chambers. Read "To Kill a Mockingbird" to see how that kind of justice works.

Atticus Finch says:

But there is one way in this country in which all men are created equal- there is one human institution that makes a pauper the equal of a Rockefeller, the stupid man the equal of an Einstein, and the ignorant man the equal of any college president. That institution gentlemen, is a court. It can be the Supreme Court of the United States or the humblest JP court in the land, or this honourable court which you serve. Our courts have their faults as does any human institution, but in this country our courts are the great levelers, and in our courts all men are created equal.

This ideal pronounced by a hypothetical character in a hypothetical setting more than 100 years ago has not been reached. In particular not with respect to "a pauper the equal of a Rockefeller".

Hypocrites my ass! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44195183)

Overblown hysteria is our protection against our so-called leaders settling comfortably into the belief that they can get away with anything and then attempting something truly outrageous. Please study the history of the rise of Nazism in Germany for further reference.

Re:why hypocrites (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | about a year ago | (#44194569)

* Why was sharing all that data with the USA OK in the `war on terror`?
* Why was it OK to violate privacy of EU citizens because of US demands?

Because those in power in the EU weren't penalized by those decisions.

* Why suddenly, when the EU leaders and G20 are spied upon, as it occurs, is this sharing suspended?
* Why doesn't the EU show willingness to harbour Snowden, Assange and Manning as a gesture of humanitarian nature?

Because those in power in the EU would be penalized by those decisions.

* Why doesn't it occur in full yet that the USA are a totalitarian state and that they want to put their views onto the rest of the world?

Because the USA isn't trying to take over Europe, just the Middle East. The USA actually more-or-less thinks it owns the EU already.

* Why doesn't anyone understand that it won't help the USA at all if they incarcerate Manning, Assange and Snowden? The leaking will continue, just with more caution.

The totalitarian elements of the US government want any potential leakers to know that embarrassing them carries a penalty of torture and execution. They need to enforce that each time it happens, or the threat goes away, and more leakers will come forward.

Nice and ironic (1)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | about a year ago | (#44194315)

A system put in place to spy on terrorists will only be legal to spy on the people it was supposed to protect.

Re:Nice and ironic (1)

Mitreya (579078) | about a year ago | (#44194789)

A system put in place to spy on terrorists will only be legal to spy on the people it was supposed to protect.

This was never about spying on terrorists, "terrorists" are just an excuse

I can tell, because apparently the 50 (100? 1000?) terrorists plots it disrupted are all too classified to talk about. If they haven't publicized at least a few (yes, some may be actually classified, but not 100%), that means they got NOTHING. They collect the data but whatever they use/plan to use for, isn't about terrorism.

Re:Nice and ironic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44195499)

A system put in place to spy on terrorists will only be legal to spy on the people it was supposed to protect.

You are very confused about what spying actually is.

BTW, I'm recording all your /. posts and identifying information for perpetuity.
I don't know what damned country you're from cause this is the M.F. Internet, so if you show me some ID and proof of citizenship, I'll gladly comply with laws in my own country that pertain to you.

Sue me.

One phone call... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194381)

We've seen it what happened with Spain, Portugal, France or Italy in regard to Bolivian president.
It doesn't matter what your laws are. It doesn't matter what you say on TV.

It just takes one (1) phone call.

ITS A CON (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194447)

In substance it is meaningless...actions speak louder than words.
The EU is corrupt and party to these programs.

Hypocrites. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194479)

Hypocrites, all of them. They have their own intelligence gathering operations on the US and other countries, but they're feigning outrage.

"Free Trade" as usual (1)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about a year ago | (#44194491)

FTA:

MEPs also voted to reject a number of amendments that specifically called for the suspension in Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) discussions.

Oh well. I was hoping some good would come of this and they'd at least suspend "free trade" talks.

Re:"Free Trade" as usual (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about a year ago | (#44195079)

Europe's economy is in desperate need of this. Much more so that the US economy.

It would have been a totally stupid move to delay it.

Re:"Free Trade" as usual (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44195197)

Germany, France, Denmark and others don't need it at all

Re:"Free Trade" as usual (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44195359)

Europe's economy is in desperate need of this

Why? Most "partnerships" with the US end up favouring the latter.

Its a non-binding resolution (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194523)

... You should read first. I come here for facts not sensation news.

I predict... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44194561)

The end of the World Wide Web as we know it. "I can no longer trust my neighbor with my telecommunications, ergo I will not allow telecommunications with my neighbor." Which means not only will people be cut off from events happening in the U.S. but the U.S. will be cut off from events happening in the rest of the world. Orwellian dystopia +1

Misunderstanding... (2)

BlueTak (1218450) | about a year ago | (#44194693)

As I read previous comments, I, as a French, have a strange feeling of misunderstanding... What american people have to do with this ? Nothing. American government and intelligence agencies have all to do with it. We, europeans, know this perfectly. The american people is the first to be spied on. And so are the others.. Maybe, they could work this out together, couldn't they ?

Lip Service (1)

RoknrolZombie (2504888) | about a year ago | (#44194867)

What a load of bullshit. Nobody is going to suspend a goddamned thing.

The US has been watching Europe and vice-versa...the only people that have been ignorant of any of these dealings are the public. Governments create one set of rules for the public and a whole 'nother set of secret rules for Governments...the leaks have only pointed out what most of us have already known. Nobody is going to "suspend" anything, they'll just restrict who has access to it until they can get their secrets under control again.

The European Parliament: (2)

Hartree (191324) | about a year ago | (#44194993)

And especially the French representatives were shocked, SHOCKED, that the US is conducting spying operations against allies.

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/14/news/14iht-spy_.html [nytimes.com]

Why, it's almost as unbelievable as if Israel was conducting spying operations against the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard [wikipedia.org]

To put this in perspective, note that the resolution that was passed is a non-binding one. "Twiddle, diddle and resolve"

Key missing part: should it wish to (1)

Fuzzums (250400) | about a year ago | (#44194997)

"a resolution that would back the Commission should it wish to suspend data sharing agreements with the U.S."

Meaning: nothing is going to change.

How to make the U.S. spy harder (2)

SuperKendall (25149) | about a year ago | (#44195161)

Problem: U.S. is spying on you.

Solution: Take away the one channel of data they did not have to spy for, thereby increasing the need for the U.S. to implement new spying...

Profit:??

Update:Britain and Sweden block EU espionage talks (1)

hazeii (5702) | about a year ago | (#44195347)

According to this article [guardian.co.uk] , Britain and Sweden have vetoed EU plans to launch two working groups to look into the 'espionage debacle'.

This might matter. (1)

Roskolnikov (68772) | about a year ago | (#44195431)

So they've voted against sharing data from the EU's citizens only when its exposed that the US wanted the same level of detail on the government(s) supposedly protecting the interests of those citizens? It might matter if the NSA/CIA wasn't already able to get most if not all of this data from their 'unofficial' channels, but I am afraid that train has left the station.

suspend (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44195459)

and impose trade sanctions ... oh wait, we dont export anything any more so just another mute point

The Europeans are telling the Americans... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44195519)

The Europeans are telling the Americans: "WTF? Do you think we are buying your 'trade privacy for security' bullshit? You might con your own denizens with that steaming pile, but not us. Take your surveillance crap and go home." I suppose some of it has to do with the fact that clearly the heads of these governments are not terrorists, and yet are being spied on anyway, clearly giving underlining the fact that this spying isn't related to terrorism, but trade, policy and power. Its also a shitty thing to do. Friends don't go through each others sock and underwear drawers.

Re:The Europeans are telling the Americans... (1)

blanddragon (713514) | about a year ago | (#44195679)

Bet your wife and kids have gone through your drawers, just sayin

Nothing to see here (1)

blanddragon (713514) | about a year ago | (#44195667)

This is really a non-story. If /. ever came out of their Mom's basement they might be in danger...otherwise, not so much
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