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Snowden Offered Asylum By Venezuelan President

Unknown Lamer posted about 9 months ago | from the zombie-hugo-chavez-wants-american-brains dept.

United States 380

First time accepted submitter aBaldrich writes "Edward Snowden was offered 'humanitarian asylum' by Nicolás Maduro, the president of Venezuela. The country's official news agency reports (original Spanish, Google translation) that the decision was taken after a meeting of the presidents of Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, Suriname, Uruguay and Venezuela. Maduro denounced an attempt to 'colonize' several European countries, and that he is acting 'on behalf of the dignity of the Americas.'" The Guardian confirms.

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380 comments

How Will He Get There (4, Insightful)

Google Fanboys (2974975) | about 9 months ago | (#44202425)

Now the question is how will he get there? There is no direct flights from Moscow. Hell, some countries even denied Bolivian presidents airspace [slashdot.org] when they thought Snowden was on the plane.

Re:How Will He Get There (4, Insightful)

AuMatar (183847) | about 9 months ago | (#44202449)

If nothing else, how about a boat? Russia has a coastline, so does Venezuela. All he has to do is get Russia's permission to enter for a few hours. Or a helicopter to a boat. Or a seaplane. Or a special flight taking the long way flying around Europe, then down the Atlantic. The question is more about how much Russia is willing to help him- given that they haven't just handed him over, my guess is they'll be happy to help him leave.

Re:How Will He Get There (0, Troll)

AHuxley (892839) | about 9 months ago | (#44202469)

Yes the Russians/Soviet navy have had a lot of experience helping people and cargo get to Cuba/South America on time and in perfect working order.
The CIA, DIA and mercs did their best to surprise a few of the landings.
A long range flight is a risk just due to US pressure on flight plans as seen.
Sub or ship.

Re: How Will He Get There (-1, Flamebait)

alen (225700) | about 9 months ago | (#44202579)

Have the navy seals board the boat and throw him over board with some weights. No evidence to leave

Re: How Will He Get There (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202635)

Yes, kill the person that exposed the illegal violations of your 4th Amendment rights. Quickly, go cower in your corner with yur gunz. The terrorists are after you right now! They are everywhere!

Re: How Will He Get There (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202769)

We don't have any 4th Amendment rights anymore.

Re: How Will He Get There (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202721)

Have the navy seals board the boat and throw him over board with some weights. No evidence to leave

Fuck you you sorry fascist piece of shit.

Re:How Will He Get There (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202491)

He doesn't want to take a boat...... too easy for the boat to be boarded in international water....

With a plane, you can attempt to force it to land with threats of shooting it down, but there is less chance that the US would actually shot down a plan killing him than of them boarding a vessel in international waters to take him.

Re:How Will He Get There (0)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about 9 months ago | (#44202493)

No, much too easy to quietly intercept. It will have to be by air, there's no alternative.

And in other news, why it's a bad idea to interfere with the diplomatic flights of other countries, news at eleven.

Re:How Will He Get There (4, Interesting)

Big Hairy Ian (1155547) | about 9 months ago | (#44202811)

Better still why don't the Russians simply get him a UN passport http://www.ehow.com/how_6811457_u_n_-passport_.html [ehow.com] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_laissez-passer [wikipedia.org] and convey diplomatic immunity on him (Its been done before, although, not in such a high profile case). That way any attempt to interfere with him en-route is technically an act of war. But then again they've already done that with the president of Columbia's diplomatic flight so why aren't the UN already spanking America?

Re:How Will He Get There (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202963)

Why isn't the UN spanking America? Certainly you do know the answer to that question right?

Re:How Will He Get There (4, Insightful)

bonehead (6382) | about 9 months ago | (#44203071)

The US holds one of the six "unspankable" seats in the UN.

While there are technically things they could do, in the real world there is very little they can do against any of the 6 permanent members of the security council that would have any teeth.

Russia is getting something based on what they do (5, Interesting)

Zontar_Thing_From_Ve (949321) | about 9 months ago | (#44202985)

I've come to the conclusion that Putin and Obama have reached some kind of deal. Putin is getting something he wants in exchange for agreeing to neither overtly help Snowden to get to another country nor requiring that Russia hand him over directly to US authorities. I have believed for years that George W. Bush botched the relationship between the US and Russia by being unable to understand the concept of quid pro quo. See, Bush believed that people should just do the right thing because it was right, not because they were going to get anything in return. This is a big part of why Poland, Bulgaria and Ukraine quickly jumped in to provide troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. They thought they were going to get visa free US travel in exchange. They pulled out when they realized that Bush was literally incapable of understanding that he owed them something in return. Putin somehow got burned by this too, although I have no idea what he wanted, and he has not forgotten it. Russia isn't going to provide any travel docs to Snowden, offer him asylum in Russia or hand him over to the USA. Venezuela won't send a ship because it fears that the US would just board it or maybe even sink it in international waters. My guess is that Venezuela will offer him a travel document that the Russians will accept, at which point they'll casually mention to their American friends "Oh by the way, Snowden is on flight XXX bound for Venezuela. Here's the flight path." and the US may plan an interception over international waters once it leaves European airspace. The Russians will then claim publicly that they are shocked, yes shocked, at this violation of international air space, which provides the plausible deniability they need.

Re:How Will He Get There (-1, Troll)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | about 9 months ago | (#44202461)

Hell, some countries even denied Bolivian presidents airspace [slashdot.org] when they thought Snowden was on the plane.

Correction: Bolivia claimed that some countries denied the Bolivian president permission to enter their airspace. Those countries have denied doing so. At this point I have seen no information which allows me to reach a conclusion as to which side is lying. I have greater distrust of the Bolivian government than I do of the other government's involved, but I cannot see a clear enough motivation for them to make this up to overcome my distrust of the other governments. Which leaves me to the conclusion I already stated: I don't know who is lying.

Re:How Will He Get There (5, Informative)

akzeac (862521) | about 9 months ago | (#44202487)

Those countries have denied doing so.

Except that France has already apologized [bbc.co.uk].

Re:How Will He Get There (4, Informative)

mbone (558574) | about 9 months ago | (#44202623)

And Spain's Foreign Minister has said that Spain was told that Edward Snowden was aboard the Bolivian presidential jet [wsj.com], and that that was why the plane was diverted [guardian.co.uk].

Re:How Will He Get There (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202957)

That's hardly an excuse. Even if he was on the plane it shouldn't have been diverted.

Re:How Will He Get There (4, Insightful)

johanw (1001493) | about 9 months ago | (#44203017)

It was a test to see how they would react if they want to get Snowden to safety. Leak false information and see if the plane would get into trouble. Now thy know how the US and its poodles will respond they can think of something better.

Re:How Will He Get There (5, Interesting)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about 9 months ago | (#44203073)

It was a test to see how they would react if they want to get Snowden to safety. Leak false information and see if the plane would get into trouble.

I to have to wonder if Snowden pulled a counter-intel move, knowing that the NSA was listening in on some conversations and deliberately fed them misinformation to provoke a reaction.

Whether Snowden simply pulled their chain or they are so bumbling incompetent that with their $50B/year budget the NSA can't figure out if a guy has boarded a plane in the Moscow airport - it sure makes them look massively incompetent.

Re:How Will He Get There (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202689)

They apologized for delaying the Bolivian president based on "conflicting information". They did in no way say they wont do it again if they suspect Snowden on a plane.

Re:How Will He Get There (2)

houghi (78078) | about 9 months ago | (#44202723)

Does that mean they will allow it if they do it a second time? Or would they say "Hey, we are sorry, but you keep flying over our country and we can not allow that."
I bet they are sorry. Sorry they got caught, Sorry that it is now known that they spy on their own as well.

I hope this does not end in 'Well, we all spy on each other. None is better then the other, so lets step it up a notch."

Re:How Will He Get There (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202497)

Correction: Bolivia claimed that some countries denied the Bolivian president permission to enter their airspace. Those countries have denied doing so.

This is not true. At least Hollande (President of France) claimed to have given permission for the airplane to enter as soon as they found out that Snowden was not on the plane. He apologised about the mixup during his visit to Germany. I have no doubt that other countries denied access as well but I haven't bothered to dig up proof for each of those countries.

Re:How Will He Get There (4, Informative)

AHuxley (892839) | about 9 months ago | (#44202499)

Re 'Those countries have denied doing so."
http://www.france24.com/en/20130705-spain-says-it-was-told-snowden-bolivian-flight [france24.com]
http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/05/3486761/how-the-hunt-for-edward-snowden.html [miamiherald.com]
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2013/0705/Faulty-lead-linked-Snowden-to-Bolivian-jet-European-officials-say [csmonitor.com]
France apologises in Bolivia plane row
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23174874 [bbc.co.uk]
"France has apologised to Bolivia for refusing to allow President Evo Morales' jet into its airspace, blaming "conflicting information"."

Re:How Will He Get There (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202531)

Can you spell ipocrisi?

Re:How Will He Get There (4, Insightful)

Znork (31774) | about 9 months ago | (#44202613)

One would wonder about the nature of that "conflicting information". Did they think it was a CIA rendition flight? No, right, kidnapping and torture is ok, it's transportation of asylum seekers that must be prevented.

The fall of western civilization into vile barbarism is painful to behold. These stains cannot be washed away.

Re:How Will He Get There (4, Insightful)

thegarbz (1787294) | about 9 months ago | (#44202501)

Correction: Bolivia claimed that some countries denied the Bolivian president permission to enter their airspace. Those countries have denied doing so. At this point I have seen no information which allows me to reach a conclusion as to which side is lying. I have greater distrust of the Bolivian government than I do of the other government's involved, but I cannot see a clear enough motivation for them to make this up to overcome my distrust of the other governments. Which leaves me to the conclusion I already stated: I don't know who is lying.

Conclusive evidence it is not, but it would be an incredible stunt to turn a plane and head to a Viennese airport and then shout from the hills that the plane is grounded and attempting to be searched.

I mean maybe the Bolivian president has too much time on his hands and is shooting the latest Jackass movie, or maybe the other countries are attempting to back-peddle after causing the most stupid international relations snafu in the past few years. I mean it could all be a big lost in translation moment, but one thing is known for certain, Morales was not scheduled to land or refuel at Vienna, and a routine refuelling stop should not have taken 12 hours.

Re:How Will He Get There (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202507)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/05/european-states-snowden-morales-plane-nsa

Spain:

The foreign minister, José Manuel García-Margallo, said on Spanish National Television on Friday that "they told us that the information was clear, that he was inside".
The minister did not say who supplied the information and declined to say whether he had been in contact with the United States. But he said European countries' reactions were based on this information.

France:

France sent an apology to the Bolivian government. But Morales said "apologies are not enough because the stance is that international treaties must be respected".

Re: How Will He Get There (4, Informative)

oztiks (921504) | about 9 months ago | (#44202509)

Their are recordings of air to ground radio between the pilot and ground control floating about. The pilot is practically begging for a place to land. Should check it out if you can find it. The YoungTurk's YouTube feed has some of it in one of their stories.

Re:How Will He Get There (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202511)

The fact that france issued an official letter of apology for the incident might be a clue.
http://news.yahoo.com/spain-were-told-snowden-bolivia-plane-173406207.html
Just sayin

Re:How Will He Get There (1)

ericloewe (2129490) | about 9 months ago | (#44202561)

No, permission was indeed denied by a few, a couple more denied landing permission.

The French quickly apologized (let's keep the "all French == cheese-eating surrender monkeys" talk aside) because their president is a sort of idiotic cheese-eating surrender monkey who is afraid of upsetting his socialist "friends".

I know Portugal's parliament voted against an apology, but as far as I've read, nobody else has said anything along the lines of "We're sorry" or "We have nothing to be sorry for".

Re:How Will He Get There (1)

Cwix (1671282) | about 9 months ago | (#44202627)

Spain admitted it as well
http://news.yahoo.com/spain-were-told-snowden-bolivia-plane-173406207.html [yahoo.com]

Thats three of the four accused countries.

Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo told Spanish National Television that "they told us that the information was clear, that he was inside."

Re:How Will He Get There (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | about 9 months ago | (#44202999)

In an article elsewhere in this thread we learn that in the same statement the Spanish Foreign Minister said that Spanish airspace was never closed to the Bolivian President's plane.

Re:How Will He Get There (5, Insightful)

Cwix (1671282) | about 9 months ago | (#44202603)

US pushing other countries to do its bidding, is more believable then the alternative that the president of Bolivia, and all of those on board were lying.

If you asked me if any government in the world was lying compared to the word of an individual, especially when that individual is supported by witnesses and flight logs, I would most certainly believe that the government was lying.

Re:How Will He Get There (1)

microbox (704317) | about 9 months ago | (#44202817)

US pushing other countries to do its bidding, is more believable then the alternative that the president of Bolivia, and all of those on board were lying.

And the west european countries admitting it as much that it was about Snowden.

Re:How Will He Get There (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | about 9 months ago | (#44203023)

So, because the President of Bolivia is an individual, you will believe him over the spokesperson for another government (I am not sure if you have noticed, but all of the spokespeople for other governments are also individuals). Why should the head of one government be believed over the spokesperson for other governments?

Re:How Will He Get There (1)

microbox (704317) | about 9 months ago | (#44202805)

France already apologized. Read your sig.

Re:How Will He Get There (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | about 9 months ago | (#44203041)

I do not know if you have noticed, but the President of Bolivia also has power. And perhaps you failed to notice, but the essence of my post was that I do not trust any of the parties involved in this dispute enough to make a judgment as to who is lying. Although the French apology combined with recent revelations that they were doing the same thing as the U.S.'s NSA, suggests that at least the French were guilty as charged.

Re:How Will He Get There (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 9 months ago | (#44203033)

It's proven fact in the rest of the world. As you can see by the many replies to your post that I'll not bother repeating. I just wanted to point out that most of our media here in the US is completely ignoring the biggest story of the century. That's why your so ill-informed. Keep that in mind when consuming news from the US in the future. It's now clear that our government as at least some control over our media, if not quite a bit.

Re: How Will He Get There (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202475)

Crowd source a charter flight, and pack it full of snowden lookalikes. Extra points for a snowden lookalike flashmob in the airport

Re: How Will He Get There (1)

microbox (704317) | about 9 months ago | (#44202823)

The US budget would explode once you pack all those guys in Guantanamo in perpetuity, and a cool $1 million per prisoner per year.

Re:How Will He Get There (4, Interesting)

mbone (558574) | about 9 months ago | (#44202577)

I think that Evo Morales, the Bolivian President, was the "designated drunk" in this case. My guess is that Morales didn't know anything and that someone is playing a deep game, leaking misinformation (about Snowden being on Morales's plane) to the CIA so that the CIA could destroy its credibility and cause a diplomatic debacle by asking Spain [wsj.com] (and others) to stop the flight.

You can bet that the next South American leader flying out of Moscow will not have their plane stopped. That is so convenient for certain parties that I have to feel that it was not accidental.

Re:How Will He Get There (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 9 months ago | (#44203045)

You're right, it was likely intentional. Did you ever stop to think that it was the South Americans that leaked the false info? Just because they're poor, doesn't mean they're dumb. They have people working for them a hell of a lot more educated than you or I. When and if Snowden makes it into their country there is going to be a heavy price to pay when the US starts flexing its bank accounts and the CIA trys to subvert their leadership. They need a solid reason to have done this so their people will rally behind them.

Re:How Will He Get There (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202889)

We have room in Canada, I will pick him up on my battle moose.

Re:How Will He Get There (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44203011)

via La Habana? Let's hope the bastards doesn't catch him

A solution for prison overcrowding ... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202519)

Little tip to Obama: this could be a solution for your prison overcrowding problems. Dump them on these third rate socialist shit holes. Just make sure you tag each criminal as enemy of the USA, and they will lap up anything you throw at them. Even if you pay for air fare you win. Try it.

Re:A solution for prison overcrowding ... (5, Insightful)

causality (777677) | about 9 months ago | (#44202573)

Little tip to Obama: this could be a solution for your prison overcrowding problems. Dump them on these third rate socialist shit holes. Just make sure you tag each criminal as enemy of the USA, and they will lap up anything you throw at them. Even if you pay for air fare you win. Try it.

The real solution to that is ending the War on Drugs and finally recognizing that anything consenting adults want to do is NOT a crime. Nice joke, though.

Re:A solution for prison overcrowding ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202591)

I wrote the joke and must say I (mostly) agree with you. .

Re:A solution for prison overcrowding ... (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about 9 months ago | (#44202751)

The real solution to that is ending the War on Drugs and finally recognizing that anything consenting adults want to do is NOT a crime. Nice joke, though.

Including cannibalism, for example?

Re: A solution for prison overcrowding ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202791)

Yep, go have your oral sex without government interference.

Re:A solution for prison overcrowding ... (1)

microbox (704317) | about 9 months ago | (#44202863)

Including cannibalism, for example?

Are you trying to tell us that you want to eat other consenting adults? Do not despair, you could always move to parts of Papua New Guinea. The rest of us have /not/ moved their, because we have no inclination to eat people, consenting or otherwise.

We don't have laws to crush the morbidly dark beast lying in every man. The fundies are working with a broken model of human nature. They once believed that banning alcohol would stop alcohol usage. Goes to show how ass-backwards they are, since drug addiction/alcoholism/social-ill-of-your-choice is almost certainly best dealt with as a public health issue.

Re:A solution for prison overcrowding ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202787)

finally recognizing that anything consenting adults want to do is NOT a crime. Nice joke, though.

Anything ? really ?

"What could possibly go wrong ..."

(caption is "unclear" ...)

Re:A solution for prison overcrowding ... (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 9 months ago | (#44202843)

The real solution to that is ending the War on Drugs and finally recognizing that anything consenting adults want to do is NOT a crime.

There are certain words that seem to invite trouble, whether you are dealing with science or people. Among them are: impossible, always, never, and I'll include "anything" for the post. (I kind of wish I had never heard the news story on this ...)

The Castration Dungeon [trutv.com]

Re:A solution for prison overcrowding ... (1)

mapkinase (958129) | about 9 months ago | (#44202949)

> that anything consenting adults want to do is NOT a crime

Why don't you start with something less detrimental to society than drugs, say polygamy?

Then tell me how it goes.

Re:A solution for prison overcrowding ... (2, Insightful)

boorack (1345877) | about 9 months ago | (#44203005)

Um, no. The real solution is dismantling for-profit prison industry in the US. Should you end war on drugs, they'll lobby for jailing people for other trivial "offences" like being illegal immigrant or publishing bad jokes on Facebook. Oh, wait ...

Luis Posada Carriles (5, Informative)

mbone (558574) | about 9 months ago | (#44202533)

Cuba Flight 455 blown up, 78 people killed, Posada Carriles [wikipedia.org] (who, BTW, was trained by the CIA at Fort Benning) escaped Venezuela to the US, and currently lives in Miami after the US refused Venezuelan extradition, on the grounds that he could be tortured if extradited. (Judges generally don't do irony.) He was tried, and acquitted, in the US for entering the country illegally, in the course of the trial his lawyers made the interesting statement that ""The Defendant's CIA relationship, stemming from his work against the Castro regime through his anti-communist activities in Venezuela and Central America, are relevant and admissible to his defense."

Although you will find barely a mention of the connection in the English language press, Juan Cole [juancole.com] connects the dots.

Re:Luis Posada Carriles (5, Insightful)

gl4ss (559668) | about 9 months ago | (#44202569)

but blowing up an airplane, that's like, totally political! releasing files on state wide surveillance system is totally different, that's a common street crime!

Re:Luis Posada Carriles (1)

mapkinase (958129) | about 9 months ago | (#44202961)

Oh, thank you mbone. This will be my top card from now on.

What a piece of shit country I am living in.

Snowden is never leaving Russia (-1, Troll)

arcite (661011) | about 9 months ago | (#44202549)

A free man. He will either stay in Russia under house arrest, or be bag and tagged by the US when he tries to flee. There is no way an airplane can make it Venezuela. Snowden says truth is coming? Snowden, justice is coming for you!

Re:Snowden is never leaving Russia (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about 9 months ago | (#44202595)

Russia to Cuba
Cuba to Venezuela

Re:Snowden is never leaving Russia (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 9 months ago | (#44202681)

Russia to Cuba
Cuba to Venezuela

US fighters to intercept. Russia, Cuba and Venezuela are outside the US's reach, but the airspace between them isn't.

Not that simple. They have to play the shell game, but with Russia's cooperation, they can, and they may in fact be doing so.

Re:Snowden is never leaving Russia (2)

msauve (701917) | about 9 months ago | (#44202745)

That would be a direct act of war - intercepting a foreign flag airliner in international airspace.

Re:Snowden is never leaving Russia (1)

FunPika (1551249) | about 9 months ago | (#44202869)

If it is not a Russian airliner, how afraid would the US even be of that? Their military could probably crush any small Central/South American country's military no problem (they should have at least 10x the combined active personnel of Cuba and Venezuela) if they actually declared war on the United States. If it is Russia though then we have potential World War III.

Re:Snowden is never leaving Russia (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 9 months ago | (#44202991)

Would it? If they were willing to bounce Morales' personal aircraft around, why wouldn't they do this?

Re:Snowden is never leaving Russia (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44203009)

The US has shot down passenger jets before. Cf. Iran Air flight 655.

Re:Snowden is never leaving Russia (1)

mutube (981006) | about 9 months ago | (#44202663)

It is telling that an (apparent) opponent of Snowden would hold up extrajudicial killing as an example of 'justice'.

Re:Snowden is never leaving Russia (1)

microbox (704317) | about 9 months ago | (#44202881)

He probably thinks of himself as a constitutional lawyer, sitting in his basement, railing against the decline of civilization.

Re:Snowden is never leaving Russia (5, Interesting)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 9 months ago | (#44202667)

Don't bet on it. If Russia decides it seriously wants to help, then they'll never even know he's left until he's in Venezuela. As of *right now*, nobody has seen Snowden since he got to Moscow. In fact, nobody has seen him in Moscow at all. Russia claims he's holed up in Sheremetyevo Airport, but nobody has seen him there. Nobody saw him get off the flight from Hong Kong. Is he still in Moscow? Was he ever in Moscow at all? I wouldn't take bets.

Re:Snowden is never leaving Russia (1)

wvmarle (1070040) | about 9 months ago | (#44202747)

Indeed no-one has seen him or has been able to contact him there, and journalists have tried hard, including by staying at that hotel and calling all other rooms (he probably just ignores these calls). However he's also not known to have left on another flight: no-one reported seeing him boarding another flight from Moscow.

His letters requesting asylum however were reported to be posted from the transit hotel at that airport, so it is quite likely he actually is there.

It won't take long before we'll know what happened, now asylum has been offered.

Re:Snowden is never leaving Russia (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202749)

Snowden, justice is coming for you!

You wouldn't know what justice was if it bit you in
your lowlife white trash ass.

Re:Snowden is never leaving Russia (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202795)

That isn't justice mate. That's a kangaroo court.

Re:Snowden is never leaving Russia (1)

FunPika (1551249) | about 9 months ago | (#44202819)

Pathetically enough, this is probably true. If Snowden actually gets in the air bound for a country that intends to give him Asylum, the US will probably do anything in its power to make sure his plane is grounded (preferably in a country willing to arrest/extradite him) before he gets there.

The real question is... (1, Troll)

slick7 (1703596) | about 9 months ago | (#44202553)

What happens when the American people finaly get tired of the corruption in government? Where will all the CONgressMEN, banksters, corporate criminals flee to? Argentina? Uraguay? Paraguay? Hmmm.

Re:The real question is... (2, Interesting)

stenvar (2789879) | about 9 months ago | (#44202621)

The kind of disruptive left-wing revolution you imagine, like conservative government as well, tends to increase corruption in government.

So, by definition, when the American finally get tired of the corruption in government, they'll start voting for people who stand for lower taxes and less government powers. It's already starting to happen at the state level.

Re: The real question is... (-1, Troll)

DJRumpy (1345787) | about 9 months ago | (#44202669)

Snowden went far beyond being a 'patriot'. When he leaked evidence of spying on other countries (something ALL countries do), it forced a response where before it was generally understood 'business as usual'.

Leaking this data just increases global tensions and serves no purpose. Anyone foolish enough to believe any developed country is not doing this is a fool.

I was initially in support of his original ideal of shedding light on programs that the patriot act spawned, but he's gone far beyond that. The discussions around the patriot act were needed and healthy. That said, did he expect to be greeted as a hero for embarrassing the U.S. and leaking classified information?

I think his original ideals turned bitter and he turned petty and careless in what he released as things escalated.

Re:The real question is... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202709)

Won't happen. If they admit its wrong now then they admit Obama is bad. Instead you will hear everyone say, "it doesn't matter who is in charge it will be just as bad". The American people will not hold Obama or any of his people accountable for anything.
Holder - Fast and furious, lying to Congress 3 times about it - pass
Rice - Bengazi attack because of a film, lied to American public and UN - pass (with promotion)
IRS targeting citizens - FBI won't even begin an investigation - pass
Clapper - lied under oath to Congress - pass
Geitner - Failed to pay income taxes - pass (put in charge of IRS)
Clinton - Ignored requests for extra ambassador security - pass (Will get next DNC nomination)

Some of the above involves killing of hundreds of citizens and they haven't been held accountable in a singe case. Every time I've heard any of it brought up the only response I've heard is "But Bush". They will NEVER hold Obama or any of his people accountable, no matter what he does.

Re:The real question is... (1)

Rockoon (1252108) | about 9 months ago | (#44202837)

(Will get next DNC nomination)

Wanna bet on that? They had their chance to nominate her but went with Obama instead, and since then here reputation has fallen like a rock.

Re: The real question is... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202909)

The real problem is all the people crying wolf when somebody's dog goes for a roll in the mud. Fat and Furious? People kept trying to make it a scandal, a heinous crime, but Americans just shrugged over the alleged resulting crimes because they recognized the undercover part was incidental.

Benghazi? Americans know the difference between being misinformed and lying. And they know there wasn't any malice in not providing even more security, and suspect that nobody really believes the complaint, that it's just mudslinging.

IRS? Americans don't object to not paying the IRS, there's even commercials on tv about it. Surprised you didn't mention the latest discredited irs scandal, the empty complaints about auditing which were found to be across the spectrum, even issa had to shut up about that.

So you jnow what? Now nobody gives a crap because all the wolf-criers won't be held to account either.

Venezuela background (2, Informative)

cold fjord (826450) | about 9 months ago | (#44202593)

Slightly dated now that el Presedente Chávez has passed on, but I doubt much has changed since. I'm sure Snowden will be happy if he makes it there, although he should probably bring toilet paper with him.

Venezuela toilet paper shortage sends ordinary lives around the bend [guardian.co.uk] - 23 May 2013

Scarcity of toilet rolls seen as part of 'general malaise' in which Venezuelans have to use guile during shortage in many staples

Venezuela crackdown deemed worst in years [yahoo.com]

Chavez Wasn't Just a Zany Buffoon, He Was an Oppressive Autocrat [theatlantic.com] - Mar 5 2013

Like an old-style dictator, he treated the state as his personal plaything but, unlike one, his power rested not on violence but on genuine popular affection. Venezuela's history since 1999 has been the story of that contradiction playing itself out across the lives of 29 million people.

Chávez's insistence on absolute submission from his supporters paved the way for the rise of an over-the-top cult of personality. As questioning any presidential directive was a sure career-ender for his followers, the upper reaches of his government came to be dominated by yes-men. Further down the food chain, too, extravagant displays of personal loyalty were required from every person in every nook and cranny of Venezuela's massive and fast-growing state apparatus, with state-owned factory workers required to attend rallies and clerical personnel fully expected to donate part of their salaries to the ruling party.

Instead of a police state, Chávez built a propaganda state, one that churned out slogan after slogan stressing the intense, personal, near-mystical bond between him and his followers. . .

Finding no resistance, Chávez gave free rein to his creative streak. He changed the country's official name, shifted its time zone by half-an-hour on a whim and added an extra star to the flag. At one point, he ordered the National Coat of Arms changed on his then 9-year-old daughter's suggestion. When an opposition satirist responded by publishing an Open Letter to the First Daughter -- reasoning that if she was now making public policy, people had a right to address her -- Chávez had the paper that printed the letter fined for violating a child's privacy.

Venezuela [heritage.org] - 2013 Index of Economic Freedom

In 1999, Hugo Chávez won the presidency, vanquished the traditional party system, and launched his Bolivarian Revolution aimed at “Socialism for the 21st Century.” Chávez styles himself the leader of Latin America’s anti–free market forces and has made alliances with China, Cuba, Russia, and rogue states like Iran. He has persecuted his political adversaries and critics, restricted media freedom, undermined the rule of law and property rights, militarized the government, and tried to destabilize neighboring Colombia. The national assembly, which he controls, passed a 2009 constitutional amendment allowing him to seek yet another presidential term, and he won re-election in October 2012. Venezuela has Latin America’s highest inflation rate (currently nearly 30 percent); chronic electricity, food, and housing shortages; and skyrocketing crime rates.

The judiciary is dysfunctional and completely controlled by the executive. Politically inconvenient contracts are abrogated, and the legal system discriminates against or in favor of investors from certain foreign countries. The government expropriates land and other private holdings across the economy arbitrarily and without compensation. Corruption, exacerbated by cronyism and nepotism, is rampant at all level of government.

Post-Chavez Venezuela Economy Gets Messier [forbes.com]

Pols mock Edward Snowden's 'oppression tour' [politico.com]

Re:Venezuela background (1)

hjf (703092) | about 9 months ago | (#44202699)

chavez, like every other latin american dictator and pseudo-revolutionist, preferred the term "Comandante", instead of presidente.

Nice try, asshole (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202715)

The reality is that Chavez did more for social conditions in his country than any other president in living memory. USA hated him viciously because of his oil-based power in OPEC, plus his aversion to letting them control the destiny of Venezuela and from there the rest of latinamerica. And that's pretty much it.

You're pretty transparent.

Re:Venezuela background (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202739)

PROTIP: In the Middle-Eastern world (e.g. UAE or Afghanistan), using toilet paper and not actually washing your ass (e.g. using a bidet or just a shower-like hose with a specific head) is seen as unhygienic, primitive and just plain nasty.

And after thinking about it, I definitely have to agree. It's disgusting. Apart from destroying nature for mental laziness purposes, by the way.

I, for one (being a poor guy), will install such a hose, and never buy stupid toilet paper again.

P.S.: Don (deliberately) confuse that for an argument about the niceness/evilness of the Venezuelan government. It isn’t one. It's only about toilet paper.
P.P.S.: Saying things like "rogue state" makes you sound like a moron. If anything on this planet is a rogue terrorist state, it's the USA. But I don't go calling you such thought-terminating clichee names, because *it's not that simple*!

Re:Venezuela background (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202799)

hahaha, what? Toilet paper is nasty? Go ask an Indian person why you're not supposed to eat or pass food with your left hand, and then we can talk about nasty.

Re:Venezuela background (1)

MITguy21 (1248040) | about 9 months ago | (#44202993)

...will install such a hose, and never buy stupid toilet paper again

From USA, on a septic system--local waste processing with older style septic tank (settling tank) and leach field. I like the idea of not using tp, but I've always wondered how you dry your ass after washing (bidet, hose or other). Is there a community towel for this purpose--yuck!! Or, do you just pull up your clothes and walk around damp?

Re:Venezuela background (4, Informative)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | about 9 months ago | (#44202803)

Not to bash Venezuela, which has many fine things about it, but also on this theme of what he is getting himself into.

Not exactly the same, but from someone who tried to gain asylum in Venezuela and ended up leaving including due to aspects of culture shock:
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110706_mcr_evolution.shtml [fromthewilderness.com]
"The Bolivarian Revolution and Venezuelan culture inherently knows that it cannot make too many exceptions to the rule that diversity must protect itself or else the rule will have no meaning. Thatâ(TM)s exactly what I was asking it to do (though I didnâ(TM)t know it) when I came here. I am not just one migrating gringo. Mike Ruppert could not be assimilated without changing something here: the Tao of politics.
    That is why, after 15 weeks of waiting, after only one interview, a formal petition and a lot of pressure from influential Americans and Venezuelan-Americans (some with direct government connections) I have not heard a word on my request for political asylum. Venezuelans are inherently suspicious, let alone of a blond gringo who is an ex-policeman who came from a US intelligence family. It is possible that within the massive and glacially slow bureaucracy, some who are not loyal to Chavez have buried my request under a pile of papers. In Latin America things take much longer and I can see now that the waiting process, never guaranteed to be successful, is part of a natural selection. ...
    The important distinctions about adaptivity are not racial at all. US citizens come in all colors. American culture is the water they have swum in since birth. A native US citizen of Latin descent who did not (or even did) speak Spanish would probably feel almost as out of place here as I do. They would look the same but not feel the same. And when it came time to deal collectively with a rapidly changing world, a world in turmoil, a native-born Americanâ(TM)s inbred decades of âoeinstinctiveâ survival skills might not harmonize with the skills used by those around him. ...
    Start building your lifeboats where you are now. I can see that the lessons I have learned here are important whether you are thinking of moving from city to countryside, state to state, or nation to nation. Whatever shortcomings you may think exist where you live are far outnumbered by the advantages you have where you are a part of an existing ecosystem that you know and which knows you.
    If the time comes when it is necessary to leave that community you will be better off moving with your tribe rather than moving alone. ..."

And:
https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=13038 [osac.gov]
"The U.S. Department of State rates the criminal threat level for Caracas as CRITICAL. In 2010, Caracas became the deadliest capital in the world with the highest murder rate in the world, averaging one murder every hour. Much of Caracasâ(TM)s crime and violence can be attributed to mobile street gangs and organized crime groups. Caracas continues to be notorious for the brazenness of high-profile, violent crimes such as murder, robberies, and kidnappings. Armed assaults and robberies continue to be a part of everyday life. Every Caracas neighborhood is susceptible to crime. Reports of armed robberies occur regularly, day and night, and include the generally affluent residential sections of Chacao, Baruta, and El Hatillo, where host government, business leaders, and diplomats reside. Studies and reports cite a variety of reasons for the critically high and constant level of violent criminal activity in Caracas including: a sense that criminals will not be penalized; poorly paid and often corrupt police; an inefficient politicized judiciary; a violent and overcrowded prison system; overworked prosecutors; and the presence of up to 25 million illegal weapons in the country."

General advice:
"World Social Forum Caracas Survival Guide"
http://redpepper.blogs.com/venezuela/2006/01/world_social_fo.html [blogs.com]

By the way, it is important to remember that many of the social problems in Latin America are the legacy of a hug rich/poor divide created by European colonialism (small white ruling class, large native and mixed underclass) and then more recently by neo-liberal policies pushed by places like the World Bank.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/3154 [venezuelanalysis.com]
"Latin America was the first place where the US imposed the most callous economic system ever seen: neo-liberal capitalism. Starting in Chile in 1973, the US used its power, along with its control over the IMF and the World Bank, to force governments across Latin America to adopt neo-liberal economic policies. This has seen Latin American countries embrace trade liberalization, financial liberalization, privatization, and labor market flexibility. Of course, US multinationals benefited from this. They have snapped up ex-state owned assets throughout Latin America at bargain basement prices. With the reduction of tariffs and the advent of "free" trade, US multinationals have also flooded Latin America with cheap exports. This has seen US multinationals making massive profits. The people of Latin America have paid for this. Since the advent of neo-liberalism, inequality in Latin America has grown, and millions of people have lost their jobs along with their access to healthcare and education.1"

"Neoliberalism as a Water Balloon"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIUWZnnHz2g [youtube.com]

Typo, I hope (1)

vikingpower (768921) | about 9 months ago | (#44202629)

Maduro denounced an attempt to 'colonize' several European Countries

I hope that should read "Maduro denounced an attempt at 'colonizing' by several European Countries,"

Re:Typo, I hope (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202665)

Having read the Spanish original I suspect that the actual typo was "European" for "Latin American", but I wouldn't put it past Maduro to accuse the US of trying to turn Western Europe into its colonies.

Mistranslated but still EU acting like colonies (2)

grimJester (890090) | about 9 months ago | (#44202763)

Maduro denounced an attempt to 'colonize' several European Countries

I hope that should read "Maduro denounced an attempt at 'colonizing' by several European Countries,"

From the Huffington Post [huffingtonpost.com]

"The European people have seen the cowardice and the weakness of their governments, which now look like colonies of the United States," the Venezuelan president said.

I have to say (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202651)

Shame, America, Shame. The land of the free and of the brave. Mr. Snowden believes in America. Poor him.

Thanks, Venezuela! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202653)

I'm so ashamed to be an European, shit-scared of the US government (especially the German president, with her past should very well know what political asylum is worth).

Sorry, world. We underperformed this time again US and EU.

Re:Thanks, Venezuela! (1)

redcaboodle (622288) | about 9 months ago | (#44203029)

The German president is a he not a she. Joachim Gauck [wikipedia.org]

Perhaps you are talking about the German chancellor, Angela Merkel [wikipedia.org]?

Their pasts differ somewhat with Ms. Merkel having started her career as FDJ secretary for Agitation and Propaganda, while Mr. Gauck was basically lying low until the East German government was down when he suddenly and retroactively turned into an ardent supporter of freedom.

An easy mistake to make though, as they are both spineless hypocrites profiting from other people's work.

https://www.slashdot.org (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202685)

It's time for Slashdot to become https-only.

I don't want all my AC posts being sent in the clear. They're not really A then, are they.

So it is- you're known by the company you keep (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202691)

Hanging with oppressive dictators the world over, yet he's driven by what ideals?

Re:So it is- you're known by the company you keep (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202971)

Name one oppressive dictator he's even met.

Edward Snowden must be gnashing his teeth. (4, Insightful)

arielCo (995647) | about 9 months ago | (#44202705)

After exposing massive metadata-based surveillance by his government, he might have to take asylum in a repressive country that routinely has conversations between opposition politicians recorded, edited, manipulated and shown on state-owned TV. That is, excluding the ones that had to flee or were jailed on bogus charges. The bitter irony cannot be missed.

Yes please go to Venezuela or Nicaragua (0)

stevez67 (2374822) | about 9 months ago | (#44202793)

As if either country will give two flying rat's arses what happens to him 30 seconds after his story is off the front pages. He'll end up living in such squalor that solitary confinement in a US Federal penitentiary will look like paradise.

About "stopping" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44202943)

Isn't Putin basically just saying Snowden oughta join the KGB and stop "hurting" their American "allies"?

Exactly how much winking was involved in Putin's claim? Is Snowden perhaps just pretending to be a little dense?

God, enough already. (0)

xyourfacekillerx (939258) | about 9 months ago | (#44203035)

Please, enough about this guy already. Everyone knows there are way worse violation of human rights in the world perpetrated by far worse governments than our own against people who will NEVER have a chance to escape, so why are we giving this guy so much attention? He wants to goto countries with civil rights abuse records so astonishing and atrocious, it makes America look like an oasis in a desert! Sure, but the NSA, etc. etc. Yea, well you have running water, clothes, a car, job or prospects, food, shelter, health, medicine, a family, a right to vote, and after all that upset over the NSA, hey, you didn't stop using the internet or your phone. So they must not be wrecking your human rights that much, and I'm led to believe you can't be that affected or distrubed by it, so maybe be quiet about it ok? Your actions speak louder than your words. If you are so paranoid and you feel like your rights are so infringed, what are you doing readling slashdot online on a saturday morning or afternoon? Shouldn't you be sweeping your house for bugs, building a bunker maybe, and calling all your representatives in washington?

Meanwhile, our fingers are not enough to count the list of real human rights tragedies occurring elsewhere in the world right now, but hey, this Snowden guy, yea, he's the person whose rights are in the utmost peril here.

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