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Database Loophole Lets Legislators Avoid Photo Radar Tickets

timothy posted 1 year,13 days | from the public-choice-theory-at-play dept.

Bug 165

lemur3 writes "State legislators in Colorado have not been receiving speeding tickets due to inadequacies in the implementation of a DMV database. The current system ties plates to vehicles rather than to individuals, the special plates for legislators are issued to individuals. The result is that there is no entry in the database for the special plates when the automated photo radar system is triggered, this means nobody receives a citation. In one case a Colorado resident, who had vanity plates reading '33,' received the photo radar citations intended for Senator Mike Johnston representing district 33, whose vehicle was identified by a '33' on his special plate. Lt. Matt Murray of the Denver Police, speaking of the system commented, 'Our system works, the database works. What needs to happen is the state's database need to be complete.'"

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165 comments

Don't vacation there and avoid driving through it. (-1)

mrmeval (662166) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277593)

It's got shit in it.

Re:Don't vacation there and avoid driving through (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44277745)

Yes, please don't come here. We don't like you.

Re:Don't vacation there and avoid driving through (0)

loufoque (1400831) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277833)

Isn't Colorado supposed to have decent beer?

Re:Don't vacation there and avoid driving through (2)

Charliemopps (1157495) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278087)

No, that's Wisconsin, and Speeding/Redlight cameras are still illegal here. Although I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

Re:Don't vacation there and avoid driving through (2)

blankinthefill (665181) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278291)

Colorado has one of the largest and most vibrant microbrew cultures in the country. I've heard Oregon comes close (Some people will even say it beats Colorado, but they are clearly biased), but I don't know... There's a ton of craft beers and neighborhood brew pubs in Colorado. And yes, a lot of it is very good. :)

Re:Don't vacation there and avoid driving through (1)

Khyber (864651) | 1 year,13 days | (#44280479)

You want REALLY good beer? You want MICROBREW?

You go to Tennessee or Kentucky, where hops grow like nowhere else (excepting Matanuska Valley in Alaska and up in Napa Valley in California. San Fernando tries but their soil lacks quite a bit of good stuff that you won't find in commercial fertilizers.)

Anyone else thinking they've got 'the shit,' is full of shit.

Re:Don't vacation there and avoid driving through (1)

Khyber (864651) | 1 year,13 days | (#44280465)

You're mistaking Colorado for a small-time place like Hangar 24 in Redlands, CA, which has better beer than the entire state of Colorado (and I've been through there many times during my west cast-east coast journeys.)

Gotta love those mistakes... (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277623)

Now this one is something that could easily fall into Hanlon's / Heinlein's Razor but it does seem a bit like somebody really favors the politicians these days.

I think Carl Sagan [brainyquote.com] was wrong. The Universe is really out to get us.

Re:Gotta love those mistakes... (2)

icebike (68054) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278125)

Now this one is something that could easily fall into Hanlon's / Heinlein's Razor but it does seem a bit like somebody really favors the politicians these days.

Even if you favor politicians, how do sneak duplicate plates bast your database software?

The way the story reads, there are two cars with the exact same plate number, 33, both on the street and in the database.

How is that even possible? Wouldn't you expect the plate number to be a unique key in the database? Or is the story just wrong?

Re:Gotta love those mistakes... (1)

Nogami_Saeko (466595) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278285)

I suspect that they issue the plates under a different jurisdiction, the same way that if you had plates from another state or country, there could be an overlap in the plate numbers.

One plate for the public, another for politicians - after all, they do seem to live in their own little world.

Re:Gotta love those mistakes... (2)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278445)

One plate for a private citizen, another plate for a politically designated office, possibly another plate for commercial vehicles. and possible yet another for public service vehicles. The private citizen's plate was never very likely to duplicate a plate for any other pool of vehicles, but it happened when the guy ordered his own special vanity plate.

Re:Gotta love those mistakes... (4, Interesting)

Khyber (864651) | 1 year,13 days | (#44280537)

No, the system is designed to prevent that.

What likely happened is the purely large '33' on one plate got mistaken for a smaller-grouped '33' on a different spot on another plate in conjunction with a specialized license plate number already-printed on the plate. You'll see stuff like this on Disabled Veteran vehicular plates, certain tax-exempt cross-country trucker plates, gov't official plates, and county/city service plates.

Source: Former plate inspector in a Mississippi state prison (one of my 'jobs' before I hit the RID boot camp program for my sentence.)

Re:Gotta love those mistakes... (1)

egcagrac0 (1410377) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278691)

I expect they're different plate types.

The "Legislator" tag that says "33", vs the "Collector" tag that says "33", vs the "Vanity" tag that says "33", vs the "Municipal" tag that says "33"...

Re:Gotta love those mistakes... (2)

modecx (130548) | 1 year,13 days | (#44279977)

Legislators' plates such as these are registered to a person, not to a particular vehicle, which is what we all expect. If the legislator has 1+ daily drivers (car / truck), he may receive more than one set.

Re:Gotta love those mistakes... (0)

icebike (68054) | 1 year,13 days | (#44280143)

Still no reason to issue that same number to a non legislator.

(why is this so hard to understand?)

The photos should include the driver (5, Informative)

Vlad_the_Inhaler (32958) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277641)

The way this works in Germany is that two pictures are taken - one of the numberplate and one of the driver. I received a letter several years ago saying that my car had been caught speeding and that the driver was obviously not me - their face recognition software recognised a female driver. The photo was included and my (by then ex-) girlfriend paid the fine.
German courts do not consider the numberplate alone to be adequate ID, a practice going back decades.

Re:The photos should include the driver (5, Interesting)

edman007 (1097925) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277737)

In the US they don't either (at least not in NY), the solution is to not fine the driver. They fine the vehicle owner, but it's not considered a violation against the driver, thus it doesn't show up on your record and it doesn't affect insurance. Basically it's done the same way parking tickets are handled (which also don't need anything other than a license plate).

Sounds to me like that's the root of the problem, the tickets are for the vehicle owner, and the legislator plates are not tied to the vehicle, thus the system can't pull the owner from the database. They could send it to the driver, but generally that doesn't stand up in court so the systems don't do that.

Re:The photos should include the driver (1)

TheGavster (774657) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277795)

In the special case of a plate issued to a public official, wouldn't making the claim that someone else was driving the car be an admission to misuse of public resources? It seems like every time a governor runs for a different office, someone goes back and brings up everyone who ever used their official car.

Re:The photos should include the driver (1)

icebike (68054) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278157)

Actually they should fine the DBA that allowed duplicate plate numbers into the database. What the hell was he thinking?

Since there are reserved legislative district plates, why would they allow any average citizen to select that same plate number for a vanity plate? In my state, a computer check is performed each time you try to get a vanity plate. Doesn't that seem obvious?

Re:The photos should include the driver (1)

whoever57 (658626) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278383)

Actually they should fine the DBA that allowed duplicate plate numbers into the database. What the hell was he thinking?

I assume that the plates are different types, thus having overlapping numbers should not be a problem as long as the database includes details of the plate types and the photo-ticket system can distinguish between plate types.

Re:The photos should include the driver (3, Interesting)

whoever57 (658626) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278447)

And I should also note that, according to TFA, the problem is not duplicate numbers in the DMV database, because these special plates (issued to people, not vehicles) are not in the database.

I wonder if the DMV database can even cope with a license plate that is issued to a person and not a vehicle? There are also dealer and manufacturer plates which are not assigned to a vehicle: I wondoer if they are in the database?

Re:The photos should include the driver (1)

sjames (1099) | 1 year,13 days | (#44280517)

I have no doubt the rules for uniqueness were set by people who only know Doing Business As. The DataBase Administrator is stuck with the rules with no input.

Given that, I'm not so sure what the DBA was thinking is fit to print.

Re:The photos should include the driver (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44277859)

Indeed, it's the same in British Columbia, which I tend to agree with. The idea is you are responsible for your vehicle. If it's stolen (and reported so with a police file) that's another issue, but if you're going to own this potentially lethal object, you should be responsible for who you allow to drive it. If you don't trust the person not to drive dangerously or pay for fines they acquire driving your vehicle, don't let them drive it. It really is that simple.

(yes, fleet cars someone will say, that should easily be handled through employment contracts and proper tracking of your company fleet)

Re:The photos should include the driver (4, Interesting)

gmanterry (1141623) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277937)

In the US they don't either (at least not in NY), the solution is to not fine the driver. They fine the vehicle owner, but it's not considered a violation against the driver, thus it doesn't show up on your record and it doesn't affect insurance. Basically it's done the same way parking tickets are handled (which also don't need anything other than a license plate).

Sounds to me like that's the root of the problem, the tickets are for the vehicle owner, and the legislator plates are not tied to the vehicle, thus the system can't pull the owner from the database. They could send it to the driver, but generally that doesn't stand up in court so the systems don't do that.

That's interesting. Here in Arizona, if the picture isn't the owner and the owner won't rat the actual driver out, then the ticket is thrown out.

Re:The photos should include the driver (1)

icebike (68054) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278185)

Stupid law.

You and I should buy identical cars. I'll drive yours with impunity, and you drive mine in your usual scoff-law way. We're both golden.

Re:The photos should include the driver (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44279195)

Plate swapping is a crime. A crime your idea would require admission to in front of a court of law. The crime of swapping plates can include jail time. Not a bright idea.

He didn't say 'swap plates' (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44280165)

He said drive each other's cars.

Which would in fact cover it.

As long as neither of you mention the other was driving your car, then your ticket gets thrown out since the driver obviously wasn't you.

Re:The photos should include the driver (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44279405)

In Britain it's somewhat different: if the owner is not driving the car and does not assert that it was stolen (or name the actual driver) then the owner pays the fine.

Re:The photos should include the driver (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278053)

Unless a cop is present and sees the violation first hand and pulls the driver over and gives the citation right then and there then it's illegal, pure and simple.

I will never pay a fine from an automated system as there is zero proof I was driving. Just because I wear an Obama mask when I drive doesn't mean anything.

Re:The photos should include the driver (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278231)

U Just because I wear an Obama mask when I drive doesn't mean anything.

Is that you Michelle? I'll be home for supper after the golf game finishes. Don't worry Mr. Snowden won't call again tonight.

Re:The photos should include the driver (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278139)

No, the root of the problem is this practice of not counting things such as this as violations. Every photo ticket for any reason should count as a violation. Why do they not do that? Because it makes it an easier sell to an easily misled public. If red light camera violations resulted in points on licenses, the outcry to get rid of them would be much larger.

This is the sort of thing where being more strict would be a good thing, because doing so would undermine support for the programs in general and remove these slimeball private ticket issuing companies from our driving environment.

Re:The photos should include the driver (2)

guruevi (827432) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278493)

In the city I'm at they don't even consider it a fine. They consider it a surcharge that you have to pay to the company that owns the red light camera's. The city probably gets a cut from it but you can't fight it in court because it's not a recognized fine under local or state laws. However if you don't pay the surcharge, they can still suspend your license because not paying the surcharge is recognized in the law. So you can go to court when they suspend your license during which proceedings (6 months for the next court date) you don't have a license (which in the US is practically a death sentence). You can then get your license back on a constitutional technicality (right to a speedy trial) but since the surcharge remains pending, every 12 months they'll re-suspend it.

Re:The photos should include the driver (1)

sabri (584428) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278899)

In the city I'm at they don't even consider it a fine. They consider it a surcharge that you have to pay to the company that owns the red light camera's. The city probably gets a cut from it but you can't fight it in court because it's not a recognized fine under local or state laws. However if you don't pay the surcharge, they can still suspend your license because not paying the surcharge is recognized in the law. So you can go to court when they suspend your license during which proceedings (6 months for the next court date) you don't have a license (which in the US is practically a death sentence). You can then get your license back on a constitutional technicality (right to a speedy trial) but since the surcharge remains pending, every 12 months they'll re-suspend it.

You, sir, have chosen the wrong politicians. If this was my city, I'd campaign until they have been thrown out of office with tar and feathers.

Re:The photos should include the driver (3, Insightful)

KPU (118762) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278901)

Is there any legitimate usage of the word surcharge or does it always mean scam?

Re:The photos should include the driver (2)

sjames (1099) | 1 year,13 days | (#44280539)

If it can mean anything but scam, I have yet to see it.

Re:The photos should include the driver (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44279077)

They did that with DWI in Texas. You have to pay a surcharge to keep your license, even if you with in court. They added the surcharge on after people had been convicted and the courts ruled that it wasn't expos facto, because it wasn't a punishment, just a surcharge. $1000-$2000 per year for three years, in addition to all the criminal penalties.

Re:The photos should include the driver (3, Insightful)

FuzzNugget (2840687) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278191)

Indeed, a plate number is not a human being (hmmm... sounds awfully familiar) and they should be required to capture both the plate number *and* a clear, recognizable photo of the driver's face. This should merely be evidence collected for the state (or crown, depending on where you live) and not considered a foregone conclusion.

Where I live, a facial photo is not required and there have been numerous occasions where the cameras were rigged.

My dad received a ticket for "speeding" in a construction zone on a Sunday afternoon WHEN NO ONE WAS WORKING. He was doing the posted speed limit, but not the implied lower speed limit for a construction zone that only applies when workers are present. Someone obviously "forgot" to switch the trap off. Reports of miscalibrated radars, hidden traps, shortened yellows and predatory enforcement abound.

And they know *exactly* how to keep you on the hook for it: a photo radar ticket is slightly less expensive than taking a day off to fight it in court, it doesn't count against your driving record (making less worthwhile to fight and they can keep dinging you endlessly) and court dates can be set *years* into the future.

Any photo radar system that doesn't require a human to be irrefutably identified a flat-out scam, plain and simple.

Re:The photos should include the driver (1)

augahyde (1016980) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278467)

And that's why I rode my motorcycle with a full faced helmet. :)

Re:The photos should include the driver (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278779)

The way this works in Germany is that two pictures are taken - one of the numberplate and one of the driver.

They used to do this in the US as well. But too many politicians were getting photographed with women in their cars that weren't their wives, so the practice was outlawed.

Re:The photos should include the driver (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44279965)

This has been accounted for in Germany. The picture is cropped and the part of the picture showing the driver and the part of the picture showing the license plate is extracted. Only those two parts of the image are sent to the driver with the citation.

Re:The photos should include the driver (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44279853)

Untrue. One picture is taken, but it will usually also show the driver.

More than that (1)

dutchwhizzman (817898) | 1 year,13 days | (#44280357)

How about just sending all the tickets out and not excluding anyone "special"? If they had a valid reason to break the law, I'm sure they will be able to explain it to the judge on their day in court, just like everybody else. What makes people on a list more equal than others?

Just as intended (4, Interesting)

Mitreya (579078) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277643)

Our system works, the database works.

System works as intended, by placing the responsibility of defense on the accused.

I wonder how long it took for that person with vanity plates 33 to get his ticket annulled. He probably had to go to court and speak to a clerk or two.

I am surprised they do not yet send occasional random tickets to 2%-3% in the database. What do they have to lose? Either the person would pay the fine or they would spend hours of their life trying to avoid paying it -- maybe they will be browbeaten into paying a fraction instead.

Re:Just as intended (1)

Vlad_the_Inhaler (32958) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277703)

Who did not RTFA? (I say this linked on fark.com a couple of days ago)
The person with 33 is a woman.

I'm having problems with the local authority here at present. Parts of the street are designated "residents only" (people have a residents' card which they display) and parts are not. A muppet handing out tickets hands them out although that part of the street does not have those restrictions. The part which does is a one-way street but after a road comes in from the (other) side it becomes two-way and he does not understand that the rules automatically change.

Re:Just as intended (0)

gerardrj (207690) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277789)

"...the rules automatically change."
You need to cite the law that says they change. Until and unless there is a sign or a law that ends the "residents only" parking area the area continues. You blindly assuming the opposite and ranting about it does not make your assumption correct.

Find the law/ordinance that states your case then show it to the parking enforcement agent and their manager/supervisor.

Re:Just as intended (2)

Vlad_the_Inhaler (32958) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277847)

oh no - their masters know full well what the rules are and accept protests immediately, it is the one handing out the tickets who does not 'get it'.

This happened a couple of years ago and I caught the person responsible a day later. We had a friendly, civilised (really!) exchange of views on the subject and she went off to check. A couple of days later we saw each other again and she apologised, telling me exactly what to write when I objected.

Re:Just as intended (2)

pspahn (1175617) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278181)

I've lived in Capitol Hill for about eight years now. It should go without saying that I have had plenty of parking tickets (though, a good amount of those weren't actually parking tickets, I just happened to be parked at the time).

For every ticket that was questionable, I went down to the city building, waited a short amount of time to have my story heard, and the tickets were nullified.

It really couldn't be any easier.

Also, I actually like a number of the red light cameras. Drivers are actually starting to understand that running red lights/stale yellows is dangerous, and they are not doing it as often. I don't know how many times I've tried to cross 6th avenue from alley to alley (because of one-ways) and nearly been hit by someone running a red light because you can't see them due to a large parked vehicle blocking the view.

Re:Just as intended (5, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278761)

For every ticket that was questionable, I went down to the city building, waited a short amount of time to have my story heard, and the tickets were nullified.

It really couldn't be any easier.

Taking time off during the workday to go to court to fight a ticket that shouldn't have been issued in the first place is easy?

Sounds like Stockholm syndrome to me.

Re:Just as intended (2)

wiredlogic (135348) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277747)

I would say the system is broken if it was possible to get a vanity plate bearing a number already in use.

Re:Just as intended (1)

Ichijo (607641) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277983)

Sounds like the implementation is a case of in-band signaling [c2.com] .

Re:Just as intended (1)

edman007 (1097925) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277767)

If they try hard enough you can figure out the owner of that plate with a few well worded searches or alternatively ask a cop or something who probably knows. Once you figure that out you just go directly to the legislator with it, they have far more power and absolutely do want to make the ticket go away. They will handle it for you.

Re:Just as intended (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44277867)

I received a photo radar citation in the mail from Washington D.C. despite the fact that I live several states away and my car has never been driven anywhere near the city. The evidence that was included in the citation was grainy photo of a SUV with license plate numbers similar but different from mine. Seeing as how my plates are registered to a small 4dr Sedan it was obvious that no human had looked at this.

Long story short, I had to waste about three months and a non-insignificant amount of money to get this completely bogus citation dropped. It almost seems like a shake-down when the city can just mail out fines to people in other states that have never even been there and we are left to "prove" our innocence or pay a fine.

Re:Just as intended (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44277915)

I forgot to add that I filed a complaint with the police over this citation. They responded by dropping my complaint and saying it wasn't a "police" matter despite the fact that "Washington D.C. Metropolitan Police" was written across the top of the citation.

Re:Just as intended (1)

icebike (68054) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278227)

If DC is like other places, they contract the work to the camera company. Because they are the police, they absolve themselves of any mistake the camera company makes.

Re:Just as intended (1)

gmanterry (1141623) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277971)

Our system works, the database works.

System works as intended, by placing the responsibility of defense on the accused.

I wonder how long it took for that person with vanity plates 33 to get his ticket annulled. He probably had to go to court and speak to a clerk or two.

I am surprised they do not yet send occasional random tickets to 2%-3% in the database. What do they have to lose? Either the person would pay the fine or they would spend hours of their life trying to avoid paying it -- maybe they will be browbeaten into paying a fraction instead.

The picture of the car taken by the photo radar has to match the car on the registration. That is "supposed" to be checked before the ticket is issued. All he had to do was show the court that the photo radar picture didn't match the vehicle description to have the ticket thrown out.

Re:Just as intended (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278257)

I am surprised they do not yet send occasional random tickets to 2%-3% in the database. What do they have to lose? Either the person would pay the fine or they would spend hours of their life trying to avoid paying it -- maybe they will be browbeaten into paying a fraction instead.

New York City tried that in the 1970's, sending random notices to people in the tri-state area. My mother received one, despite not having been in the city in a decade or more (she certainly would never drive there anyway). She called to complain and they "took care of it". I wonder how much they collected on them from people who paid and didn't complain.

Re:Just as intended (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278375)

Under administrative law, the defense does have to prove their innocense. It's not like criminal law.

The real question for me is... (4, Insightful)

hedgemage (934558) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277657)

Why do legislators need special license plates? What sets them apart from us plebs in the rank and file? I'm sure that they don't have problems parking at the statehouse, so other than notifying law enforcement that they're 'special' why different plates?

Re:The real question for me is... (1)

Trepidity (597) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277751)

As far as I can tell, it's basically a vanity plate that isn't supposed to have any legal difference. You can also get special plates if you're a military veteran, if you have an amateur radio license, and miscellaneous other things.

It does seem to raise some risk of special treatment, specially in the legislator case.

Re:The real question for me is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44277893)

No legislative plates are not just vanity plates. Do to laws on stooping legislators from getting to a vote those plates are basically a get out of jail free card. They don't get parking tickets and they don't get pulled over.

Re:The real question for me is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278013)

"diplomatic immunity!"
"My dear officer, you could not even give me a parking ticket."

Re:The real question for me is... (4, Informative)

AHuxley (892839) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277753)

Lawmakers driving between legislative events have immunity from prosecution under legislative privilege.
A tight vote could be swayed by stopping a few key political people.
So they write in a free movment rule - the ability not to be stopped while going ~to vote.

Re:The real question for me is... (4, Insightful)

nitehawk214 (222219) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277875)

Lawmakers driving between legislative events have immunity from prosecution under legislative privilege.

A tight vote could be swayed by stopping a few key political people.

So they write in a free movment rule - the ability not to be stopped while going ~to vote.

Bullshit. I mean, that is likely the story they tell people....

The real reason is that no cop is going to pull over and ticket a legislator once they see the plate. Police budgets are set by legislature, don't bite the hand that feeds you. It is the same reason why cops have that FOP (Fraternal Order of Police) sticker on their licence plate or car.

Re:The real question for me is... (1)

slimjim8094 (941042) | 1 year,13 days | (#44280365)

Bullshit it's bullshit. It's literally in Article 1 of the Constitution, not even in the bill of rights or precedent or any other such comparatively wishy-washy thing.

[Members of Congress] shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony, and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their attendance at the Session of their Respective Houses, and in going to and from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place. [wikipedia.org]

Most state Constitutions are modeled on the Federal one. And I quote from a little further down in that page: "A similar clause in many state constitutions protects members of state legislatures in the United States."

Re:The real question for me is... (1)

LordLucless (582312) | 1 year,13 days | (#44280519)

The right for them not to be arrested during voting is in the constitution - the implementation that includes distinctive license plates that may form a disincentive to prosecution in any circumstance is not.

Re:The real question for me is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278393)

That's nonsense. It's one thing not to impede their travel, but another to *allow* them to break the law. Also, if the relevant legislature is not actually in session on the date in question, then any special consideration should be cancelled.

Silly rabbit ... (3, Insightful)

Gription (1006467) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277765)

Because they made the rules, so of course they made them to their own advantage.

Liberal Thugs (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44277667)

All of the liberal thugs need to GTFO of Colorado. Enough is enough. Wait! Think of the children! Imagine in a few years as a young adult the only job you will have is part time and minimum wage, wait! That's now! Thanks liberal thugs!

If its like the healthcare bug... (1)

Chewbacon (797801) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277669)

...it'll take a year to fix.

The system works! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44277699)

Only you civilian fools would interpret its failure as not working. Our revenue is just fine.

Are legislative privilege plates that numerous? (1)

AHuxley (892839) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277701)

If civil servants, bureaucrats, the private sector politically connected are getting plates that should be for lawmakers traveling between “legislative events” and using their personal cars would it really show? -
Could random vanity plate searches just be pointing to a more than a few having special plates?

Equal Protection clause (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44277755)

I wonder if you could successfully defend a photo speeding ticket in CO by showing that you didn't receive equal protection under the law.

Re:Equal Protection clause (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278265)

I wonder if you could successfully defend a photo speeding ticket in CO by showing that you didn't receive equal protection under the law.

No. They'd ship you to Texas to be fried in the chair at dawn or dusk depending upon the mood of the Emperor...I mean Governor.

How is it posslbe ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44277761)

I don't know how this is possible. Could someone explain ? Possible ? [youtube.com]

"SILENCE YOU FUCKING SLAVES!!!" (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44277933)

Accept the 1% "masters" feel you're nothing more than cattle - annoying cattle, nothing more: Accept that rules don't apply to the 1% fools - accept it, idiots! They are clearly above the law, this only shows you more of it, along with their political puppets. Get outta line?? We sick the IRS attack dogs on you, digging for dirt! Do more of that??? Well, then we just 'keep digging' by surveilling every move you make. Don't worry - we will merely "reinterpret" existing laws, putting a "spin" on what they actually mean, vs. what you're doing. Ah, yes - it is just easy to then make a "criminal" out of you (even though we as the 1%'ers create more criminality, death & thievery than all of you combined and on actual real crimes like murder - politicians commit to that, everyday). You? You're shit, and that, IS that. Now, how does that make you feel?? Angry??? You OUGHT TO FUCKING BE! You did this, to yourselves. You *think* the lying sociopaths in political power actually give a flying FUCK about what you think? LOL! All they care about is what anyone like them does: POWER, and CONTROL (it's their drug, and symptomatic of what's wrong with their kind inside - they know they're pulling shit, blowing out laws and rights folks supposedly are guaranteed, and getting away with it, because you LET them!).

Nice to see my post go from -1 to +2 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278481)

The downmod doubtless being media spinmaster control. Question: Did the head of the IRS lose their job? "Gosh, NO!". Did Mr. Clapper or Mr. Alexander lose THEIR JOBS?? "Heck no" again. Why's that? Are your "fearless leaders" (skulking in the shadows spying on you) doing THEIR JOBS??? Were I do produce such "fine results" economically, I'd be fired. How about you? Probably the same. Douchebags that sit around all day (taking 'risks' with YOUR MONEY no less & fucking it up most of the time) keep theirs though! Well folks, since none of the parties involved in some of the biggest scams and crimes of all time that subverted your "inalienable rights" are out of a job, what's the point of laws if they don't apply equally to all I ask you? None. Law is for all, not just those that can afford it. Oh, they just "reinterpret" those laws when necessity of cover-up convenience demands it. Is the NSA supposed to SPY on US Citizens? No. It's not part of their charters' powers. Yet they do! Explain that. See, unlike many normal folks? The 1%'ers need their stock profits, and it's easy to control wage as an expense via downsizing is why. Corporate thieves known as mgt. "MUST GET THEIR BONUS" too ( fuck the company in the long run - I am "gonna get what's mine"). Wake up AMERIKA, wake the fuck up. You're in the control of the biggest criminals of all time with their religious cults or secret handshake clubs and they are ripping you off (that's right - you the taxpayer) and you LET them.

Is't there something that can be done... (2, Interesting)

sootman (158191) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277973)

.... about fucking retarded shitheads like this speaking in public and telling lies?

"Our system works, the database works. What needs to happen is the state's database need to be complete."

WRONG, fuckface. 1) If, according to the evidence, the system isn't working, then the system isn't working. Expected behavior: the correct person gets tickets. Observed behavior: the wrong person gets tickets. How can you say that "works"? 2) If a part of the SYSTEM isn't working (like the database), then the SYSTEM isn't working, because a SYSTEM is "a regularly interacting or interdependent group of items forming a unified whole."

Re:Is't there something that can be done... (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278815)

You're lacking perspective, friend; you assume by 'works' he means 'functions in a technically correct way.'

As a LEO, I presume his definition has more to do with the revenue generation aspect.

Re:Is't there something that can be done... (1)

LordLucless (582312) | 1 year,13 days | (#44280523)

You and he are referring to different systems - you to the complete system, including the central database, and he to the system of matching license plates and performing database lookups with that data, which he (presumably) is responsible for.

If the legislators plates aren't in the database, then there's no conceivable way for the "system" to function correctly, and it's entirely in the hands of the people who maintain the database, not the people who write frontends that can't query non-existent data.

um, ok (1)

roc97007 (608802) | 1 year,13 days | (#44277977)

> "What needs to happen is the state's database need to be complete."

That's a true statement. Show of hands: Who believes this will be fixed? Not eventually, but at all?

Let me fix it for you (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278107)

Our system works, the database works. What needs to happen is the state's database need to be complete

You want me to write the SQL that will correct this for you? I think it'd take me about 10min, but I bill in whole hours so $200? We got a deal or do you want to continue on with this bullshit theory that you can't do anything about it?

Re:Let me fix it for you (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278569)

R-i-i-g-h-t. And "MongoDB is Web Scale", too.

    http://mongodb-is-web-scale.com/

Interesting (1)

kilodelta (843627) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278167)

In most states there are type codes for the different kinds of plates issued. Here in RI I know passenger is 01, amateur radio is 18, and so on. It looks like one of the databases is missing the type info.

The System works... (2)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278281)

'Our system works, the database works. What needs to happen is the state's database need to be complete.'"

Sounds as if he's got a one track mind.

Two Pictures does not equal ticket (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278289)

Search for "Arizona gorilla mask speeder".

Another technique that have been successful is just shredding the ticket and claiming you never received it. Until they are willing to serve process on you they have no case. In most of the states with speed cameras it is all contracted out to whatever company the state/county/city hired to do it and the notices do not carry the same weight as something coming from the courts/police.

The solution... vanity plates. (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278361)

Just make your plate say:
' ; (Drop Table sysobjects

Or something akin ..

Colorado photo radar tickets don't have to be paid (3, Interesting)

michaelmalak (91262) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278409)

Photo radar tickets in Colorado don't have to be paid anyway [kdvr.com] unless they go to the trouble of serving you in person, which they never do.

Re:Colorado photo radar tickets don't have to be p (1)

jklovanc (1603149) | 1 year,13 days | (#44279261)

Sorry but the writer of the article is incorrect; Here is the pertinent quite from the law;

(II) If the state, a county, a city and county, or a municipality detects any alleged violation of a municipal traffic regulation or a traffic violation under state law through the use of an automated vehicle identification system, then the state, county, city and county, or municipality shall serve the penalty assessment notice or summons and complaint for the alleged violation on the defendant no later than ninety days after the alleged violation occurred. If a penalty assessment notice or summons and complaint for a violation detected using an automated vehicle identification system is personally served, the state, a county, a city and county, or a municipality may only charge the actual costs of service of process that shall be no more than the amount usually charged for civil service of process.

The notice has to be served in 90 days. Notice it states that " If a penalty assessment notice or summons and complaint for a violation detected using an automated vehicle identification system is personally served...". That indicates that the notice need not be "personally served". That clause is there to stop authorities from effectively double fining by charging a high fee for personally serving notices.

Re:Colorado photo radar tickets don't have to be p (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44280189)

Yes. But if your notice is served by mail and you ignore it, nothing happens unless they have you served in person. Which the OP contends they never do, and I'm inclined to believe that as long as the majority just pay up.

We have bigger problems than this folks... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278641)

See... http://canauzzie.blogspot.ca/2013/07/removing-and-understanding-dinar-layers.html

Agreed that it is a continuum, but worrying about a few tickets when the Imperium itself will implode (or how you want to restore the Republic, take your pick) is silly.

It's a feature, not a bug. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278659)

It's a feature, not a bug.

If (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44278773)

the ticket is not issued by an officer at the time of the offense, it is not legal as far as I am concerned. Citations issued only on the basis of automated radar/traffic camera systems cannot assure that the person commiting the offense is the one that gets the ticket. Ticketing the registered owner of the vehical is just plain wrong, when someone else might have been driving the vehical.

Too many cities see traffic cameras and other automated systems to issue traffic tickets as a source of $$$ instead of considering the safety of drivers and the accuracy of giving the ticket to the actual offender.

All Automated traffic ticket systems need to be outlawed, especially traffic cameras!

Hate to... (2)

WillyWanker (1502057) | 1 year,13 days | (#44278897)

...break it to him, but if legislators aren't getting tickets and innocent civilians are getting tickets that should be going to legislators then your system DOESN'T work. It's BROKEN.

Not that it should surprise anyone that these "special" plates are conveniently missing from the DMV database and/or treated differently than regular plates. Just an unfortunate coincidence or oversight I'm sure. Riiiiight.

By design (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44279001)

You don't really believe this is a loophole do you? It's by design. Politicians are always making themselves immune to the laws they write. Even TFA agrees:

Lt. Matt Murray of the Denver Police, speaking of the system commented, 'Our system works, the database works.

Yes, the system and database works, anyone politically connected doesn't get tickets.

California is Worse (2)

schwit1 (797399) | 1 year,13 days | (#44279127)

http://www.infowars.com/special-license-plates-shield-officials-from-traffic-tickets/ [infowars.com]

California DMV "Confidential Records Program," which was created 30 years ago to keep records of police officers private from criminals. The program has since expanded to cover "hundreds of thousands of public employees â" from police dispatchers to museum guards â" who face little threat from the public. Their spouses and children can get the plates, too.

Drivers covered under the Confidential Records Program abuse the system by evading toll road charges, running red lights at intersections with red light cameras, parking illegally, and breaking other traffic laws with impunity.

"Velcome comrade to AMERIKA!!!" (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44279267)

Where if you're part of the "in team/club" laws don't apply to you! After all - those self-same above the law powers that be do such a "fine job" (not) of sending your jobs overseas and raising profits for their "own little club" in the 1%'ers at the same time. This takes away any small chance you had in "courts of law" (bullshit) where MONEY = LAW (there is no justice) since you can't afford to fight them. Understand 1 thing: The USA is in the clutches of the biggest class of scumbag criminals there has ever been. Do they lose their jobs for such "fine performances" like a failed economy that a child could fix if it's done honestly. Welcome to a place where if you "cross the powers that be" they will sick the IRS on you abusing their powers (& getting caught in it too, incompetent morons showing just what they're made of, just like their fine "economic plans" are doing too). That doesn't do it? No problem: We'll just surveil you and "reinterpret" laws that strip away your inalienable rights! We'll make a criminal of you yet with those means. Has Mr. Alexander or Mr. Clapper lost their job? No. Has the head of the IRS also?? Hell no. You sure will though! They'll just keep on downsizing, and then raising taxes too. The poor have no weapons and this is the means to create that situation and yes, it is all by design in this nation built on "rule of law" (funny how the wealthy are above that though).

Why do legislators get special plates? (1)

mysidia (191772) | 1 year,13 days | (#44279339)

It seems to be a violation of equal protection under the law.... I as an individual can't go out and get a personal plate assigned to me and not a specific vehicle. Furthermore; I would be subject to getting a ticket from the automated system.

My fellow legislators... (1)

Alsee (515537) | 1 year,13 days | (#44279495)

My fellow legislators, this situation is an outrage. I have been receiving letters from my constituents angry that this legislative body has placed itself above the law, and that we are not subject to paying traffic fines like everyone else. I have promised my constituents that I will IMMEDIATELY take action on this issue. As such, I hereby move that my bill, Equality Under Law Act (EULA), be scheduled for a floor vote at the beginning of the next legislative session. Thank You. God Bless America.

Let the record show that this motion has passed unanimously. The Equality Under Law Act is hereby scheduled for a vote at the beginning of the next legislative session, subject of course to the standard legislative rules for indefinite postponement in the event that any legislator makes a motion to address urgent legislation, and that motion is seconded. We now move on to the pressing matter of a bill to rename local Post Office #128 as "Veterans Memorial Post Office".

-

or (1)

Xicor (2738029) | 1 year,13 days | (#44279983)

or they should just stop wasting money and realize that speeding doesnt cause accidents

send the unpaid tickets to him (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,13 days | (#44280023)

Then see if he still thinks it works.

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