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Microsoft Stock Drops 11% In a Day

Soulskill posted about 9 months ago | from the i-see-you-are-having-problems-with-your-investors.-would-you-like-me-to-help? dept.

Microsoft 467

Taco Cowboy writes with news that Microsoft's stock price dropped over 11 percent yesterday. The selloff was the biggest since 2009, and during the day the price was down more than 12 percent at one point, making it the biggest single day drop since April, 2000. Analysts believe the drop was due primarily to the company missing its quarterly earnings projections in addition to taking a massive, $900 million write-down on unsold Surface RT tablets. "Microsoft’s decline is both a consequence of the changing dynamics of the tech world and the incredible surge in its stock price this year. Shares in the maker of Windows had rallied nearly 30% this year, leaving both the broader stock market and the technology sector in the dust. It was, it seemed, Steve Ballmer’s year. Until Friday. The sell off was sparked by fears over the declines of the PC market. Gartner data show PC shipments fell for the fifth consecutive quarter in Q2, this time tanking 10.9% to 76 million units. Being the world’s largest software company, 'over 80% of its revenue and nearly all of its profits continue to be derived by its ubiquitous Windows OS, its server business (Windows Server), and the business division (Office),' according to UBS. And indeed that decline in the PC industry is hurting the company’s bottom line."

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467 comments

Metro UI (1)

Follow Meeee (2990709) | about 9 months ago | (#44338139)

The sell off was sparked by fears over the declines of the PC market. Gartner data show PC shipments fell for the fifth consecutive quarter in Q2, this time tanking 10.9% to 76 million units.

You have said that the Metro UI is a mistake from Microsoft but it seems like they predicted this happening and started moving to the new direction. So after all, Metro UI might have been the correct decision all along.

Re:Metro UI (2)

spire3661 (1038968) | about 9 months ago | (#44338157)

Metro itself, isn't a terrible idea, its the way they implemented it that we hate. If Metro had been done like OSX App Store and Launchpad, NO ONE would be complaining.

Re:Metro UI (1, Interesting)

Follow Meeee (2990709) | about 9 months ago | (#44338173)

Metro is far better than Launchpad. I hate using it on my Mac. I always just search for the apps and every time I have to use Launchpad I just hate it. Not to mention that Metro allows software to display advanced information on its screen.

Re:Metro UI (3, Insightful)

flyingfsck (986395) | about 9 months ago | (#44338289)

Anything is better than Launchpad. I always delete it. Even on machines I buy for other people. I just blow it away immediately.

Re:Metro UI (4, Interesting)

dch24 (904899) | about 9 months ago | (#44338347)

Hindsight is 20/20. Here are a few things Microsoft should have done:
  • - Listen to users before releasing Win8, not wait until Win8.1 to start "listening"
  • - Listen to users when market testing the first run of Surface ads, not wait until reviewers have panned the ads, the product, and the OS, and then start making decent ads [arstechnica.com]
  • - Listen to users before forcing UEFI Secure Boot (without an unlock), not wait until there is an uproar to say oops, change the Win8 logo requirements (desktop PCs escape armageddon... for now)
  • - Listen to users before forcing always-on connected DRM with the new Xbox, not wait until there is an uproar then take some more things away from their platform
  • - News flash! Listen to your shareholders! and get rid of Ballmer (ok, clearly there has not been a full scale shareholder revolt. yet.)
  • - Listen to users who are jumping ship for Google and Apple, to see if a more humble Microsoft could win some of them back

Instead it's more of the same old Ballmer monkey tricks.

Re:Metro UI (5, Interesting)

LordThyGod (1465887) | about 9 months ago | (#44338499)

Hindsight is 20/20. Here are a few things Microsoft should have done:

  • - Listen to users before releasing Win8, not wait until Win8.1 to start "listening"
  • - Listen to users when market testing the first run of Surface ads, not wait until reviewers have panned the ads, the product, and the OS, and then start making decent ads [arstechnica.com]
  • - Listen to users before forcing UEFI Secure Boot (without an unlock), not wait until there is an uproar to say oops, change the Win8 logo requirements (desktop PCs escape armageddon... for now)
  • - Listen to users before forcing always-on connected DRM with the new Xbox, not wait until there is an uproar then take some more things away from their platform
  • - News flash! Listen to your shareholders! and get rid of Ballmer (ok, clearly there has not been a full scale shareholder revolt. yet.)
  • - Listen to users who are jumping ship for Google and Apple, to see if a more humble Microsoft could win some of them back

Instead it's more of the same old Ballmer monkey tricks.

Somewhere it helps to be ahead of the curve and not chronically behind it. Listening is good, yes, but who was Apple listening to when they created the iPhone? MS completely lacks anything close to that kind of vision or innovation. They wait for others to innovate, see if its making money, then jump in and try to grab marketshare. That worked in the '90's. It doesn't work now. A moron could see the RT was DOA.

Re:Metro UI (3, Insightful)

spire3661 (1038968) | about 9 months ago | (#44338525)

Apple was listening to people that wanted a better way to browse the web while mobile. Everything else followed.

Re:Metro UI (2, Informative)

Gr8Apes (679165) | about 9 months ago | (#44338671)

QuickSilver [blacktree.com] is your answer. I go a couple of steps further, since I am a very light spotlight user, I remap spotlight to CTRL-OPT-Spacebar, and then map QuickSilver to Cmd-Spacebar, and I don't look back. I'm a keyboard junkie - I also use Cmd-Tab and Cmd-` (the tilde key above the Tab) to move between apps and move between windows of the current app, respectively. Shift will reverse the order on those last two. I also rarely use Expose, and map my F keys to be real F keys. On my MBP I use the Func key to control the brightness and audio if needed.

Personally, Apple made wrong choices with Spotlight. It is both too powerful, and not powerful enough. I have over 10TB of internal disk space, mostly full, and as I develop software, we're talking millions of files of all types, along with a Gb of mail over many years. Spotlight is next to useless systemwide, although it works well enough within Mail. Maybe the real problem is its integration with Finder. Since I'm adept with shell commands, I've never bothered looking any further.

Other than that - the UI works well enough, stays out of my way, and with QuickSilver, I haven't had to change how I work with OS X since the Panther days.

Re:Metro UI (2)

dingen (958134) | about 9 months ago | (#44338175)

The problem, and the real reason the stock is down so much, is because Microsoft's new direction isn't catching on. The iPad was an instant success, but the Surface RT isn't selling at all. This combined with the declining PC-market makes investors nervous, as it seems Microsoft is unable to be successful in the future.

Re:Metro UI (-1)

Follow Meeee (2990709) | about 9 months ago | (#44338203)

For Microsoft, Surface RT was a huge success. It sold much better than their previous offerings and reviews were great. People have also been quite happy using it. In that regard, Surface RT is a success, even though it didn't pass iPad on sales.

Re:Metro UI (5, Insightful)

dingen (958134) | about 9 months ago | (#44338215)

Writing off almost a billion dollars in a quarter and slashing prices by 33% within the first year of launch isn't a success by any standards.

Re:Metro UI (-1)

Follow Meeee (2990709) | about 9 months ago | (#44338231)

For Surface RT's users, the product was great. Where Microsoft made a mistake was that they manufactured too many of them and that's why they got a huge loss. Still, it sold much better than Microsoft's previous tablets and users are happy with it, so that's what counts.

Re:Metro UI (5, Insightful)

dingen (958134) | about 9 months ago | (#44338241)

So the Zune was a huge success as well then, according to you?

Re:Metro UI (-1)

Follow Meeee (2990709) | about 9 months ago | (#44338261)

No, the Zune was bit of a failure. It didn't sell at all. But there still are some users (even on Slashdot) that say it was a really good product. So it's more like 50/50. However, Surface RT actually sold quite well and that's what makes it different from Zune.

Re:Metro UI (5, Informative)

dingen (958134) | about 9 months ago | (#44338279)

If Surface RT is selling so well, why then the price drop? Why the write-off? Why doesn't anyone I know have a Surface RT?

Re:Metro UI (-1, Redundant)

Follow Meeee (2990709) | about 9 months ago | (#44338291)

Like I said, they overestimated it and made too many of them. It still sold well and users like it, though.

Re:Metro UI (2)

dingen (958134) | about 9 months ago | (#44338307)

How do you know it "sold well"?

Re:Metro UI (0, Redundant)

Follow Meeee (2990709) | about 9 months ago | (#44338373)

By their reports and having seen many people owning them. Almost as many as iPads, actually.

Re:Metro UI (5, Informative)

dingen (958134) | about 9 months ago | (#44338407)

What "reports"? Surface RT sales being weak is reported all over the internet. Literally nobody is saying it is selling well at all, including Microsoft themselves.

Re:Metro UI (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 9 months ago | (#44338513)

The only source for those reports is astroturfers. I have yet to talk to actual human being who owns one or knows anyone who knows one.

Product Placement usage. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338633)

The only place I have seen it besides in captivity at a store, has been on TV. The shows where the tablet has been used in a "Product Placement" ad are amazing. Hawaii Five0, Burn Notice and probably many others I haven't seen or don't watch.

Re:Metro UI (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338399)

Sold well, as in We made 6 millions and 100 and we sold the 100 we meant to from the beginning.. And 78 of those were actually given to the beforehand-chosen reviewers.

You seem to be using the same dictionary definitions for victory and success as the Monty Python's Black Knight.

Re:Metro UI (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338315)

I don't know a single person with an iPad, nor have I ever seen anyone in public with one and I live in a major city. The only people who bought them are Apple iCultists.

Know what I do see? Android. Android devices everywhere.

Re:Metro UI (0, Troll)

amiga3D (567632) | about 9 months ago | (#44338553)

Hahahahaha...damn stop it! You're killing me! I see the damn overpriced things everywhere. I own a Samsung 5" media player that I bought when I saw the iPad had no SD card slot and it was only 200 bucks and fit my pocket. I love it but even I know that there are iPads everywhere you look. If you haven't seen one it's because you lost your glasses.

Re:Metro UI (3, Informative)

geoskd (321194) | about 9 months ago | (#44338325)

No, the Zune was bit of a failure. It didn't sell at all. But there still are some users (even on Slashdot) that say it was a really good product. So it's more like 50/50. However, Surface RT actually sold quite well and that's what makes it different from Zune.

The zune sold more than a million units in its first year, compared with 35 million IPODs sold in that same span, and yet it is universally considered to have been a failure.

The Surface RT and Surface Pro together sold less than a million units int their first year, while the IPAD sold more than 22 million units in that same period. It sounds to me like the surface and zune fall into the same category of failure...

Re:Metro UI (4, Insightful)

PCM2 (4486) | about 9 months ago | (#44338385)

However, Surface RT actually sold quite well and that's what makes it different from Zune.

By what standard did it sell well? Maybe Microsoft was moving some units at first, but months after launch we kept hearing the same figure for the number of units sold. A month would go by and someone would quote the same figure, again. That's not indicative of strong sales. By some channel figures, in Q1 of 2013 Microsoft and its partners moved [pocket-lint.com] less than 2 million Windows RT and Windows 8 tablets. That's not just Surface RT, not just Microsoft, that's every vendor of Windows tablets combined. Meanwhile, Apple sold nearly 20 million tablets in the same period; one vendor. So I ask again, by what standard has Surface sold "quite well"?

Re:Metro UI (3, Interesting)

gl4ss (559668) | about 9 months ago | (#44338469)

No, the Zune was bit of a failure. It didn't sell at all. But there still are some users (even on Slashdot) that say it was a really good product. So it's more like 50/50. However, Surface RT actually sold quite well and that's what makes it different from Zune.

zune was a failure so they took the zune guys ideas and made windows phone 7 and then took the ideas and made windows 8. it's a failtrain all around. the stock price drop might be indication of that people are figuring out that they need some big change of decision choosers to not failtrain any further - like heck, what are they going to failtrain next, the xbox one?

good product indicator in ms products is sales, zune wasn't particularly bad but it wasn't great either and downright annoying in few ways. what ties all these products together is that they feel "ok" if you use them for 3 minutes - they all have that dazzle over complex function quality, movie OS quality. for the money dumped into zune marketing it sold pretty badly, same goes for the other two products in the failtrain. they sold a "lot" if you compare them to say, how much beos sold, but nobody would take you seriously if you did that.

people didn't consider surface rt as good value for money, hence they got stuck on the shelves. don't dance around it, nobody really wants them. I've heard dozens of people trying to justify how it's a great product for someone else though.. all of them being devs(the kind of who do only .net) or people otherwise married to ms. and normal people, like my mom? they don't know what the fuck surface rt is, heck, even ms reps fail at knowing what's the difference.

though why am I replying to someone who says that surface RT sold well just days after MS admitting that they failed to meet the projected sales so much that they took a 900 mil beating with them....

I don't know a single person who bought surface RT, not one! anyone I heard had one got it for free for the sake of porting. it's not a product you would spend your own money on and no corporations are spending their money on it either and people with them are not recommending them to others, freaking 100 bucks shit tablets are doing better. hell, even the padfone is doing better.

Re:Metro UI (1)

amiga3D (567632) | about 9 months ago | (#44338531)

I know a guy that has a zune and he loves it. Only one guy but hey, that's one happy customer.

Re:Metro UI (4, Insightful)

SerpentMage (13390) | about 9 months ago | (#44338321)

heh? Surface RT was a failure plain and simple. The fact that users are happy does not prove anything. People will jump into cacti because they are happy to do it. Don't believe me? Head over to youtube and search for cacti guy jump. My point is that everybody loves products that other people hate, that is called statistics. Whether or not it is successful depends on adoption rate.

Case in point, desktop linux, not happening. I like desktop linux and use it all the time, but that don't make it a success even though I am happy. On the other hand server side Linux is a huge success and now getting to the point where people only release for Linux. EG Redis... Sure I can use it on Windows, sort of, kind of, maybe.

Re: Metro UI (1)

vondiggity (1038522) | about 9 months ago | (#44338335)

In other words, up is down, and black is white.

Re: Metro UI (1)

dingen (958134) | about 9 months ago | (#44338383)

Yeah. And it's "selling better than their previous tablets", but this is their first one. Right...

Sure they tried to push Windows onto other people's tablets before with things like XP Tablet Edition, but they haven't made their own tablet until the Surface. And it's a bomb, just like the Zune.

The Verge currently has an article running on how similar the failure of the Surface RT is to the Zune: http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/19/4537944/surface-rt-mistakes-look-like-zune-2 [theverge.com]

Re:Metro UI (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338515)

Ummmm..... I have a Surface RT (testing purposes thank God) and great is not a word I would ever call it. It's actually really bad. I have no love of Apple but the iPad kicks it's sad sorry ass.

Re:Metro UI (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338609)

"That's what counts" is hilarious - so it's a "success" if this is slightly less of a massive failure than their previous tablet, and if the five people who bought one think it's okay? What actually counts is that they massively overestimated demand and failed to convince the market that they had made something worth buying.

Re:Metro UI (1)

LordThyGod (1465887) | about 9 months ago | (#44338507)

For Microsoft, Surface RT was a huge success. It sold much better than their previous offerings and reviews were great. People have also been quite happy using it. In that regard, Surface RT is a success, even though it didn't pass iPad on sales.

*wink*

Re:Metro UI (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about 9 months ago | (#44338205)

You have said that the Metro UI is a mistake from Microsoft but it seems like they predicted this happening and started moving to the new direction. So after all, Metro UI might have been the correct decision all along.

Pray tell, what does that have to do with Metro UI?

Re:Metro UI (-1, Troll)

Follow Meeee (2990709) | about 9 months ago | (#44338245)

You have said that the Metro UI is a mistake from Microsoft but it seems like they predicted this happening and started moving to the new direction. So after all, Metro UI might have been the correct decision all along.

Pray tell, what does that have to do with Metro UI?

Metro UI is designed to combine both PC and tablet UI's. So because Microsoft saw that PC sales were declining, they wanted to compete in the tablet space. That was against everything that Slashdot users said back in the day when Metro UI was introduced, and they called it a huge mistake from Microsoft.

Re:Metro UI (5, Insightful)

geoskd (321194) | about 9 months ago | (#44338415)

Metro UI is designed to combine both PC and tablet UI's. So because Microsoft saw that PC sales were declining, they wanted to compete in the tablet space. That was against everything that Slashdot users said back in the day when Metro UI was introduced, and they called it a huge mistake from Microsoft.

Just because M$ had an actual plan doesn't mean that the plan was any good. It was a mistake for M$ to try to force their way into the tablet market. It was doomed to failure. Worse yet, it has continued a long string of M$ screwing its loyal customer base in an ill-advised attempt to convert customers from one market into another. M$ has to learn that it cannot mess with its loyal windows customer base. It cant leverage its existing monopolies for new markets because it is no longer the 800Lb gorilla of all things tech. The more they pull crap like this, the more rabid haters they create. How many people will put up with a fair amount of inconvenience just to run open-office. How many people were willing to switch to Firefox when it offered only marginally better value over IE (both were free after all). A large number of people (myself included) switched to these other platforms and solutions for no other reason than because we hate M$. I do still run some M$ products because the alternative is not really practical, but every time a good enough alternative comes along, I switch away from yet another M$ product. How many others are out there like me?

Re:Metro UI (-1, Flamebait)

Follow Meeee (2990709) | about 9 months ago | (#44338439)

Makes you look like an real adult when you use M$

Re:Metro UI (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338617)

Makes you look like an real adult when you use M$

True, but the point is still valid.

Re:Metro UI (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338561)

You refer to Microsoft as M-DollarSign, so that indicates you're an anti-Microsoft zealot. How many of them are round? Well, on the Internet it may seem like a lot depending on where you go. Out in the real world, not so many. I call this the "Ron Paul" effect. So much buzz on-line, but in reality not even remotely significant. Some people switched to Firefox mainly because it was a fresh alternative to Internet Explorer 6, which Microsoft sat on for too long. I'm a happy Opera user myself.

Re:Metro UI (5, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 9 months ago | (#44338285)

And crappy tablet.

No g3/4 or even GPS?! What kind of crap is that if I cant get directions or weather reports on the road? Metro is not bad but its implementation on the desktop. Taskbars and start menus are really fine with big screens ms. Nothing to fear folks and they work when you have 20 apps and files open. The cell phone UI cant handle this.

MS is still thinking like a monopolists because it worked. Bad release. .. Oh just wait. NT failed, IE failed, xbox failed failed, etc. Because they were ms they just gradually fixed them and monopolized the market later.

Guess what? Those days are done. Apple, Google, Mozilla, and others will eat you for breakfast while you wait for the next version. Look at IE as an example? Gosh darn it hell froze over and IE 10 and soon IE 11 are great browsers now that Google and Mozilla
slapped IE 6 crazy but who cares? People do not feel comfortable picking MS and IE as a brand now. Windows will go the same route.

They really need to try to be better. Not catch up and assume people will use it because its from MS like they did in the

Re:Metro UI (2)

gl4ss (559668) | about 9 months ago | (#44338389)

but perhaps that is part of the problem?

what would have happened if they had spent all that energy on making the desktop better, people haven't stopped using the desktop, but damn not that many are upgrading to windows 8 because it offers an inferior desktop experience(I'm a win8 user, all the time in desktop, I got one piece of sdk that doesn't run in win7 so I have to use win8 at least somewhat). their share price drop has a large connection to their metro ideology, that pushing the shit metro ui on people is their golden ticket to appstore goodness money. but that's a shit idea.

if windows 8 offered a reason for people to upgrade their pc's maybe the pc sales wouldn't be declining either, but as it is it looks like they're either out of ideas or on purpose dropping them so they can push metro because it's the company policy(tm) dictated by an executive decision(tm).

doing something upgraded, more flexible ui's, yeah, that's the correct decision. BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN METRO UI IS CORRECT DECISION. you just fell into the same thought trap that ms execs fell into, that because it's not desktop friendly it's good for MS, which is just stupid bullshit.

coming up in windows 8.11 - ability to run metro apps windowed by default.

It's not about the money (5, Insightful)

symbolset (646467) | about 9 months ago | (#44338141)

Microsoft has tons of cash and is making more. Nobody thinks they're going out of business this year. The panic is that they clearly have no viable plan for participating in the mobile revolution. They have lost control of the platform.

Re:It's not about the money (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | about 9 months ago | (#44338165)

Sure they do. All they need to do is port Office to all viable mobile platforms and then they are set.

Re:It's not about the money (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338247)

It's not that easy to do it. And the'll have to compete with a lot of already established mobile office apps out there. They can't provide full Office capabilities because of the limitations of the mobile platforms, thus they can't really make a difference.

office for linux as well they have an mac one (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 9 months ago | (#44338273)

office for linux as well they have an mac one

Re:office for linux as well they have an mac one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338549)

MS Office for Linux is never going to happen. Most Linux users are used to LibreOffice, and most of them would not switch to MS Office if it was "sold" at the same price. We have MS Office licences at work, and when I need to get a job done ASAP, I start LibreOffice instead of messing with the MS Office ribbons and printing problems. If LibreOffice doesn't cut it for you, you will be looking at LaTex, not MS Office.
Microsoft is in enough trouble selling to users of the most used operating system in the whole world. Investing in nice markets isn't going to be profitable at a competitive price-point.

Re:office for linux as well they have an mac one (1)

amiga3D (567632) | about 9 months ago | (#44338569)

People on Linux that want Microsoft Office already have it. Why would they port it when it's not going to improve their market any?

Re:It's not about the money (5, Funny)

Threni (635302) | about 9 months ago | (#44338281)

Yeah, everyone wants office on their tablets. I do, my daughters and wife do, and just think of how stupid all those iPad users are going to feel when they see cool, cool windows tablets running a cut-down version of the latest version of Office. Excel on a train? No problem. Outlook in a nightclub? Sorted. Word in a park? Job done! I just hope Access works on mobile too - that would be sweet! I'd never leave the house! That'd show those Android using chumps!

Re:It's not about the money (1)

SerpentMage (13390) | about 9 months ago | (#44338339)

Ok, let me get this straight... You would use Outlook in a nightclub? Really? Somehow I don't see that as a killer feature...

Re:It's not about the money (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338489)

And Poe strikes again!

Re:It's not about the money (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338493)

Ok, let me get this straight... You would use Outlook in a nightclub? Really? Somehow I don't see that as a killer feature...

There would be no need for the person you're chatting up to hastily write their number on a piece of paper.

Re:It's not about the money (2, Insightful)

geoskd (321194) | about 9 months ago | (#44338447)

Yeah, everyone wants office on their tablets. I do, my daughters and wife do, and just think of how stupid all those iPad users are going to feel when they see cool, cool windows tablets running a cut-down version of the latest version of Office. Excel on a train? No problem. Outlook in a nightclub? Sorted. Word in a park? Job done! I just hope Access works on mobile too - that would be sweet! I'd never leave the house! That'd show those Android using chumps!

I think you'll find that a touch interface is simple not really up to the task of content creation. There is no decent workflow at all that involves a touch screen for editing anything. Typing e-mail and texts on a touchscreen is somewhat marginal, and anything more complex than raw text is going to be an exercise in frustration. While I agree that having my phone or tablet capable of doing real work while I'm on the go would be cool, I simply don't see any good way to deal with the lack of rich inputs on a mobile device. Even laptops are kind of marginal, and I can really only use one with a mouse, although I know many people who make do with a track-pad. The real killer application will be whoever can come up with a rich input device that fully and completely replaces the keyboard/mouse combination with something as good or better that can fit into a mobile form factor. Until then, mobile productivity software is a non-starter.

Re:It's not about the money (1)

PCM2 (4486) | about 9 months ago | (#44338305)

Sure they do. All they need to do is port Office to all viable mobile platforms and then they are set.

Not as easy as it sounds. Not by a long shot. Have you tried using Office on an 8" Windows tablet? I don't really recommend it.

Re:It's not about the money (2)

alen (225700) | about 9 months ago | (#44338585)

i'm sure lots of people can't wait to pay $300 for a copy of MS Office on their tablet. or $10 per person per month for 365.

NSA spying (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338179)

Is probably not helping the companies long term prospects. That said, this earnings report motly reflects a period before Snowden started talking.

Re:It's not about the money (1)

Gareth Monk (2827833) | about 9 months ago | (#44338207)

I'm not sure what their plan was for the internet, but I seem to recall they didn't figure it was going to be a big thing (heh) and have ever since been playing catch up.

Looks like they've completely missed the boat and/or dropped the ball in the tablet market, which I consider to be a shame.

Re:It's not about the money (4, Insightful)

Follow Meeee (2990709) | about 9 months ago | (#44338217)

Microsoft (and Nokia) have a marketing problem. Nokia Lumia's are actually really great phones and the OS is good, but iPhone has made such a huge name of itself that it is really hard to compete with it. But we should all be happy that they are trying to compete, because competition is good for customers.

Re:It's not about the money (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338239)

Microsoft has tons of cash and is making more. Nobody thinks they're going out of business this year. The panic is that they clearly have no viable plan for participating in the mobile revolution. They have lost control of the platform.

Lost control of the mobile platform? When were they in control?

Re:It's not about the money (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338249)

Of course they have a plan, force the same gui from there mobile platform on the Desktop users, so everyone knows how to use a windows mobile device. It's just not beeing accepted.

Re:It's not about the money (5, Interesting)

gmuslera (3436) | about 9 months ago | (#44338283)

Is about the trust. Their closed platform and their "we respect your privacy" internet services busted badly. Why anyone in the world will put their intelectual property, privacy, business proposals and so on in an environment that leak their information by design? That directly lies their consumers saying that their information is safe because they encrypt them? That will keep remote vulnerabilities intentionally open for a year or more, so can be exploited by NSA and associated private companies?

The NSA helped more to popularize linux on the desktop than all the open source community with its practices.

Re:It's not about the money (4, Insightful)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about 9 months ago | (#44338485)

Not to mention, Ominvore was ported to Microsoft OSs as a basic pork handout to implement Carnivore... Precursors to PRISM. MS is in DEEP with the surveillance state. I can't honestly recommend their platforms from a security standpoint, let alone an ethical one.

Yeah! $900 million loss on Surface...pffft (2)

dottrap (1897528) | about 9 months ago | (#44338309)

The Surface is nothing. We lost a full billion on Microsoft Kin. That was at least a full round number.

Re:It's not about the money (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338425)

Every now and then a company must have a plan to get attention. After waking from a bad dream, Steve Ballmer had an idea, why not take Win7, fuck it up and call it Win8. MS made it so.. Feeling great that so many are watching what MS will do next, Steve pushes the envelope a little more and announces... Now we take Win8 fuck-it-up even more, put back some stuff but only half-ass it, they will love it. Win8.1 get's hatched. One more time, waking from another bad dream, Steve jumps up and has a better new idea, Win9, no screen, no keyboard, no mouse, customer just buys a Win9 box, places it against a door to keep it open. Fantastic!

Re:It's not about the money (4, Funny)

DogDude (805747) | about 9 months ago | (#44338427)

The panic is that they clearly have no viable plan for participating in the mobile revolution. They have lost control of the platform.

Windows Phone is growing faster in sales than Android and iOS. I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Re:Windows Phone sales (2)

Johnny Loves Linux (1147635) | about 9 months ago | (#44338449)

I was under the impression that the only Windows Phone sales were from Nokia, and they (Nokia) aren't doing too well last I heard. Is there a web site with stats on the windows phone sales vs. Android vs. Iphone? I would be curious to see if they (Microsoft) are doing any better.

Re:Windows Phone sales (4, Informative)

symbolset (646467) | about 9 months ago | (#44338537)

Windows Phone has 4% global share. 85% of that is from Nokia. Nokia's margins on Windows Phones is -14%. That means it is not mathematically possible for Windows Phone to be returning a profit to the average builder. Nokia can't keep this up forever. Other builders don't sell enough units to make it worthwhile to continue to produce units. All of Windows Phone ecosystem sells about as many smartphones as Coolpad. Have you heard of them? No. Nobody talks about Coolpad, but everybody talks about Windows Phone and Nokia.

One fun person to read about these with is Tomi Ahonen [blogs.com] .

Re:It's not about the money (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338539)

Scientology is the world's fastest growing religion.

Buy! Buy! (1)

elabs (2539572) | about 9 months ago | (#44338181)

Seriously, I think I'll pick up some MS shares on Monday. The market overreacted and MS is stronger than ever. As others have mentioned, even with this drop MS is still up 17% for the year while Apple is down 20% for the year.

Re:Buy! Buy! (1)

SerpentMage (13390) | about 9 months ago | (#44338375)

And this is why people lose money in the stock market. Just because Microsoft is down 11% does not make it a good buy. Remember that Apple was at one point down 11%, and I am guessing people like yourself would say, "oh this is a market overreaction and Apple is stronger than ever".

Hint, hint, until its not!

Analysts believe? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338195)

Analysts don't have any clue ever. Yet they themselves influence the markets.

The entire system is ludicrous.

Hardware and Services (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338229)

HA HA, TIME TO CHANGE THE COMPANY TO HARDWARE AND SERVICES. UH OHHH

Steve SERIOUSLY fucked up hard.
I wonder how long it will take for people to vote to kick him out.

Not only are people NOT buying their hardware, barely anyone is buying their services either.
Meanwhile their OS and Office apps are still the thing that makes them even exist.
And the one thing they depend most on, the business types, THEY SHAFT THEM ENTIRELY WITH THE NEW OS.
Great idea Baldness, great idea. Doing the company proud. And then Technet got killed. Up next, MSDN on the chopping board.
Not to mention Xbone. I seriously thought the whole 180 reversal on the DRM was some sort of reverse bait and switch, "hey, have our shitty product!", everyone hates it, "HAAA, gotcha, here, but seriously, have our less shitty product! We removed the really good features and the really bad features!".
They seriously never done that though, they ACTUALLY designed it like that, and after Don was eliminated from the company floors, that further proves it. And the many thousands to million servers they had for Xbone now being touted for Azure instead probably.

We won't see Microsoft die any time soon, but they will eject the monkey in control if this gets any worse.
Linux will become more popular on the desktop as more games are moving to it, which will take a large chunk of gamers out of their income.
Steam already has a decently large number of games supported now, and it is growing.
People are seeing through Microsofts bullshit, took a while, but finally they are seeing them for what they are.

And the NSA effect (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338251)

Who wants to buy kit from a vendor who spies on them with their NSA buddies?

Re:And the NSA effect (1)

Follow Meeee (2990709) | about 9 months ago | (#44338271)

You mean like Google?

Re:And the NSA effect (1)

UltraZelda64 (2309504) | about 9 months ago | (#44338319)

You mean like practically every major technology/communications company?

Re:And the NSA effect (1)

gmuslera (3436) | about 9 months ago | (#44338477)

You can choose no company, and stil have your (open source) solution and pretty safe. If you don't like some of the open source companies like redhat or ubuntu, you can even roll your own distribution with a lot of tools available for that. Is not the same not having a way out than refusing to pick the obvious choice.

Re:And the NSA effect (4, Insightful)

UltraZelda64 (2309504) | about 9 months ago | (#44338559)

The real problem, at least with the Prism spying, is not on your computer. Well, it might be if you run Windows (the idea of secret backdoors seems more real than ever now), but that's beside the point. It's the fact that the government has chosen to parasitize its chosen host companies directly, right on the Internet, installing splitters right at the source: between the host company and its ISP, with top-secret government-controlled datacenters in between for long-term storage of all of their traffic... everything that goes in, everything that goes out. The only way this can be avoided is by choosing services whose providers are *not* in the United States and therefore not subject to this FISA court crap. I have been running Linux since 2006, but trust me: Linux is no protection against this. The government has penetrated the Internet itself, right where it counts: at the pipes of all the major U.S.-based world-wide communications providers' connections.

Re:And the NSA effect (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | about 9 months ago | (#44338377)

Well, at least the office software from Spies R Us (TM) is still somewhat better than Libre Office right?

The stock market isn't based on real value (5, Interesting)

msobkow (48369) | about 9 months ago | (#44338267)

The stock market isn't based on the real value of a company anyhow. It rarely involves evaluating the technical expertise, the research and development, the long term product development plans, the current or future rational profit projections of the company, or anything like that.

Instead, it's now a bunch of automated systems buying and selling at a furious rate based on statistics and very small margin profits for the trades.

In other words, legalized gambling with the biggest players gaming the system to their advantage.

When I think about how solid or worthy a company is, the last thing I consider is their stock price.

Re:The stock market isn't based on real value (1)

SerpentMage (13390) | about 9 months ago | (#44338393)

Yes and Buffet is blowing air up people's arses! Just because you can't find value does not mean that value does not exist! Value exists, but it requires an understanding of business without resorting to biases... This is why people don't make money on the stock market.

Re:The stock market isn't based on real value (1)

DogDude (805747) | about 9 months ago | (#44338431)

Yes and Buffet is blowing air up people's arses! Just because you can't find value does not mean that value does not exist! Value exists, but it requires an understanding of business without resorting to biases... This is why people don't make money on the stock market.

Oh, really? What's the mechanism that ties stock price to "value", exactly?

Re:The stock market isn't based on real value (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338465)

Shows what you know. People who do longer-term investing don't much care about short-term volatility since reversal to the mean is still working in their favor.[*] However, when you actually go ahead and make projections for some metrics, like cash flows and rate of growth, you'll see that the current price has funny sensitivities to those. Of course those are models, subject to bias, impossibility of predicting truly innovative products and so on. Still, for large enough companies there is a lot of inertia that makes predictability decent in a lot of areas. Now, if Microsoft's estimated rate of growth just got slashed in the near future due to the (device) market giving them a clear 'shove it' signal on Surface/Win 8, then the effect on the current price of future growth opportunities can very well be in the 10% range. And with Friday's volume being about 5 times larger than the 3-month average this is far likelier to be due to a number of large block sells than it is to be the work of automated trading. Wait a while and it's likely to show up in the SEC fillings of some large institutional holders.

[*] in practice it's never that simple, as one does not have the luxury of being immune to quarterly results. Still, Fed's accommodative policy helps a lot here

Negative press (5, Insightful)

PCM2 (4486) | about 9 months ago | (#44338297)

Don't worry; Steve Ballmer's reorg will fix all of this. All of the product groups that analysts used to compare quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year have disappeared. Products have been shuffled around into new groups organized around "engineering." The upshot is that money-losing products like Bing are now going to be lumped in with big breadwinners like Office. You won't be able to look at the Xbox and Online Services divisions anymore and say "they lose money." All those failures will be hidden in the new structure. Without an instance like Microsoft writing down almost a billion dollars on the Surface RT disaster, it will be harder for anyone to gauge how it's doing, at least for the next few quarters. Problem solved!

Re:Negative press (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338521)

it's so crazy it just might work!

Re:Negative press (1)

Dracos (107777) | about 9 months ago | (#44338577)

Don't worry; Steve Ballmer's reorg will fix all of this.

Recycling 6 million unsold tablets into chairs is about as likely to fix anything in Redmond as Ballmer's reorg. What the reorg will do is hide any useful business metrics for a year or more while Ballmer continues to run the behemoth into the ground.

Re:Negative press (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338587)

Microsoft was shuffling money between product groups for many years. For example, they moved Office losses to the Xbox, where it would not make the company look as bad. The numbers could never be trusted.

World Changed (3, Interesting)

puddingebola (2036796) | about 9 months ago | (#44338313)

How many of the online services you use dependent on any particular platform? The mobile revolution played some role in splitting the nut open and allowing the internet to grow. Now we have an internet built around open standards, and with HTML5, the services we use will be less dependent on the use of any particular company's platform. I think Ballmer's use of the term "devices and services" is an accurate description of where everybody's head is at now. If I just want to use a computer for light work and communications, who cares whose platform I use? I went back and read Negroponte's "Being Digital" recently to see what was in it. I am going to start doing this more because I'm amused by tech prognostication and guruism. One comment in there stayed with me, however, to the effect of , one company can leverage a proprietary technology or standard for a while, but sooner or later, open standards catch up with them. In 2000 I was using IE to use the web. Now there is a range of browsers, iOS, and Android, and they all seem to function well enough or better for most peoples needs.

Re:World Changed (3, Interesting)

bazorg (911295) | about 9 months ago | (#44338413)

now we have an internet built around open standards, and with HTML5, the services we use will be less dependent on the use of any particular company's platform

... and yet the sales growth is all on those bundles of OS + hardware we call smartphones and tablets.

Chicken or Egg? (4, Insightful)

istartedi (132515) | about 9 months ago | (#44338327)

I think Win8 slowed PC sales. It's just anecdotal; but you hear people say they were at the store and didn't want to buy a machine unless it came with Win7. Otherwise, they're waiting to see if MS can get rid of the New Coke OS and replace it with Classic.

Core market decline + fail to launch in new one. (4, Insightful)

guidryp (702488) | about 9 months ago | (#44338343)

The traditional PC market has had 5 consequential quarters of decline. This is Microsofts core market, where it makes much of its money.

On top of that Microsoft has essentially failed to gain any traction in the the new growth markets of smartphones/tablets.

So it is understandable that like the PC market, which is adjusting to some new smaller number of annual sales, Microsoft which makes it's income from those sales will adjust down to some new lower level of earnings, and a correspondingly lower stock price.

Up 19.6% on the year (1)

Lawrence_Bird (67278) | about 9 months ago | (#44338355)

even after Friday. Ben Berspankme will give you 0.25%. Hmmmm which was better.

Re:Up 19.6% on the year (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44338625)

even after Friday. Ben Berspankme will give you 0.25%. Hmmmm which was better.

You mean Bernanke will give you 18.7% (how much the S&P is up so far in 2013).

Buy low, sell high. That's my motto! (1)

tehlinux (896034) | about 9 months ago | (#44338481)

What a crazy world we live in. They make money when most tech companies are losing money, and people dump the stock. Oh well, worked out great for me!

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