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Sunken WWI U-Boats a Bonanza For Historians

samzenpus posted about 9 months ago | from the dive-dive-dive dept.

The Military 161

schwit1 writes "Archaeologists have found the rusting remains of 44 submarines off the United Kingdom's coast, an oceanic graveyard made up mostly of vessels from the German Imperial Navy dating to World War I. Der Spiegel reports a quartet of divers are now at work probing the massive trove of 41 German U-boats, and a trio of English submarines, found at depths of up to 50 feet, off England's southern and eastern coasts. 'We owe it to these people to tell their story.' says archaeologist Mark Dunkley."

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161 comments

We can thank the code breakers (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44345619)

Alan Turing should be pardoned because he helped the war effort do this.

Re:We can thank the code breakers (4, Informative)

NobleSavage (582615) | about 9 months ago | (#44345643)

That was WWII not WWI.

Re:We can thank the code breakers (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44345665)

Don't expect that to make a difference. People here just want to shout Turing's name from the rooftops as loud as they can. It's like the fucks who claim that Tesla invented alternating current... they don't give a fuck about the facts. They just want to act intelligent by being ignorant assholes.

Re:We can thank the code breakers (3, Funny)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 9 months ago | (#44345931)

Don't you get on Al Gore's internet* and start blathering about facts, young man.



*Al Gore did not invent the internet. This reply is meant for humorous value in this specific context only, and is not intended for use in a factual exchange.

Re:We can thank the code breakers (1, Troll)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 9 months ago | (#44346295)

I'm not clear here. Are you asserting Turing didn't 1. play a substantial role in the war effort through his work at Bletchley Park and 2. play a significant role in the development of the digital computer?

Re:We can thank the code breakers (4, Insightful)

Zemran (3101) | about 9 months ago | (#44346383)

3. play a substantial role in the war effort in WWI.

Re:We can thank the code breakers (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44346691)

The article is about WW1 not WW2.

Re:We can thank the code breakers (5, Funny)

Longjmp (632577) | about 9 months ago | (#44345653)

Oh yes, Turing was a genius, helping to sink German U-Boats at the age of 6 ;)

U-BOATS SCHTINKIN !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44345637)

Been to the Chicago one !!

It stinks !!

Imagine the WWI stink !!

UB 40 (4, Funny)

Longjmp (632577) | about 9 months ago | (#44345671)

From the article:

Dunkley and his team of divers found UB 17 off England's east coast, [...]

Let me know when they find UB 40 ...

Re:UB 40 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44345705)

Sunk in the English Channel by a mine, you fucking dumb faggot.

Re:UB 40 (4, Insightful)

Longjmp (632577) | about 9 months ago | (#44345783)

Sunk in the English Channel by a mine, you fucking dumb faggot.

Nope, my intellectually challenged friend, UB40 went down when Ali Campbell left the ship (I think 2008)
:p

Re:UB 40 (1, Redundant)

Opportunist (166417) | about 9 months ago | (#44347453)

At least one person got the joke.

You really know you're old if you're one of the few who get a joke that relies on part of your music culture.

Re:UB 40 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44346069)

Haha you got owned you stupid piece of shit donkey dick sucking whorebag.

Re:UB 40 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44346227)

"The wreck of UB-40 is located & identified by divers in the recent years" from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SM_UB-40
-SH

Re:UB 40 (1)

gallondr00nk (868673) | about 9 months ago | (#44345943)

Let me know when they find UB 40 ...

Let me know when they sink UB 40.

Re:UB 40 (4, Informative)

solanum (80810) | about 9 months ago | (#44346477)

Just to be clear, for people not alive in the UK in the 80s the name of the band UB40 came from the code on the unemployment benefit form.

Re:UB 40 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44347317)

Where were you when "Red, Red Wine" came out, that sunk UB 40 completely.

A few more (0)

b4upoo (166390) | about 9 months ago | (#44345715)

To all our soldiers who fought and suffered in that war a few more sunken U-Boats would feel better yet. Wretched wars that did nothing but evil should never have existed.

Re: A few more (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44345751)

Illuminati blood sacrifice to their gods. That was what they did and still do.

Re: A few more (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44345799)

Fuck you. If your country was being invaded or your people were being murdered wholesale you'd pray for a war to end it.
 
Fucking retarded fucks don't give a fuck about reality. They want a land of milk and honey but they don't want to work for it.
 
Go take another dick in the ass.

Re: A few more (1)

Deadstick (535032) | about 9 months ago | (#44345823)

I feel as if I just woke up in a beer bar between football games...

Re: A few more (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44345889)

I feel as if I just woke up at a faggot convention where dipsticks pay fags to shit on their faces. Step along asshole.

Re: A few more (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44347305)

You seem to know a lot about these faggot conventions.

Re: A few more (1, Flamebait)

CohibaVancouver (864662) | about 9 months ago | (#44346015)

If your country was being invaded or your people were being murdered wholesale you'd pray for a war to end it.

Fucking retarded fucks don't give a fuck about reality.


Look you f*cking retarded Anonymous Coward f*ck who doesn't give a f*ck about reality - Read a history book.

World War I had nothing to do with countries being invaded and citizens being murdered. It was all about the aristocracy sending young boys to their death due to antiquated treaties signed by the same aristocrats. It carried on for years, with boys being shot, gassed and suffering terribly so those same SOBs could save face.

Re: A few more (3, Insightful)

Mashiki (184564) | about 9 months ago | (#44346241)

World War I had nothing to do with countries being invaded and citizens being murdered. It was all about the aristocracy sending young boys to their death due to antiquated treaties signed by the same aristocrats. It carried on for years, with boys being shot, gassed and suffering terribly so those same SOBs could save face.

It had all to do with 40 years of nationalism, an assassination and automatic mobilization of ones military. With a base policy of self-reinforcing militarization and mobilization. If you don't have any idea what that last sentence means, it means that x country would deploy 5k troops, you'd deploy 10k, they'd deploy 15k, and and a destroyer. So you'd deploy another 20k and two destroyers and a dreadnaught. Then, you'd start building more ships, more guns, and so on.

Re: A few more (5, Informative)

fnj (64210) | about 9 months ago | (#44346261)

World War I had nothing to do with countries being invaded and citizens being murdered. It was all about the aristocracy sending young boys to their death due to antiquated treaties signed by the same aristocrats. It carried on for years, with boys being shot, gassed and suffering terribly so those same SOBs could save face.

Basically all too true, and I couldn't agree more with the general distinction, but it wasn't that cut and dried. When you use the phrase "nothing to do with" you do need to be careful. It didn't hold a candle to the the devastation of civilian populations in WW2, but it was bad enough in its own right.

DIRECT civilians deaths DUE TO MILITARY ACTION in WW1
Russian Empire 500,000
Romania 120,000
Austria-Hungary 120,000
France 40,000
German Empire 1,000

Excess deaths due to famine, disease, etc attributable to the war:
Ottoman Empire 2,150,000
Russian Empire 1,000,000
Italy 585,000
German Empire 425,000
Austria-Hungary 347,000
Romania 330,000
Serbia 300,000
France 260,000
UK 107,000
Bulgaria 100,000

A global total of 950,000 direct civilian deaths plus 5,900,000 indirect civilian deaths was a "good" warmup for WW2 with its 38 to 55 million civilian deaths. Since the bulk of the civilian hurt didn't come down on the UK and France, and the worst of it not even on Germany, it gets overlooked, but I doubt if the people of Russia and Turkey will ever forget what their forebears went through.

Re: A few more (4, Interesting)

cold fjord (826450) | about 9 months ago | (#44347155)

World War One not only set the stage for World War Two, but it resulted in issues that plague us to this very day. The first world war ultimately lead to the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, and the Islamic Caliphate government in 1923. One of the key goals of Islamist extremists, in particular al Qaida as they are fighting today, is to reestablish the Caliphate, and from there rebuild an Islamic empire. By similar token, the Ottoman Empire was carved up in such a fashion that there will likely be no end of conflict in the Middle East for the foreseeable future.

Re: A few more (3, Insightful)

Shompol (1690084) | about 9 months ago | (#44347421)

Your forgot to mention rise of Communism in Russia. Not only did Germany directly sponsor the movement [thehistoryforum.com] , but the war weakened Russian Empire enough to make toppling the government possible.

Re: A few more (5, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | about 9 months ago | (#44347529)

World War 1 set the stage for pretty much everything that happened in the 20th century. Europe was VASTLY different before WW1 than it was after. Before, Europe was mostly a collection of a few large "global players". Afterwards some of them (most noticeably Autria-Hungary) dissolved into a sizable amount of smaller countries. That tilted the balance of stability considerably, with all of the remaining imperial superpowers trying to gain a hold of the newly created smaller states.

France wanted to subdue Germany forever, but only managed to set the stage for the rise of Hitler and WW2 in the process by creating a lot of hatred and an urge to get revenge on the other side of the Rhine.

The fall of the czarist Empire in Russia and the rise of the Soviet Union would not have happened, or at the very least would not have happened so easily and quickly, without WW1. It's actually likely that some kind of revolution would have happened, but without WW1 the other conservative absolutist monarchies (notably Germany and Austria-Hungary) would probably have intervened at the side of the Czar, like it was the other way around in 1848 during the uprisings in those countries, containing the revolution.

The fall of the Ottoman Empire mostly led first to the "winners" splitting up those areas between them, which we still can see in the Middle East, and which still causes trouble to this day. Of course islamist organizations want to reestablish the rule of the Islam, I just kinda doubt that they'd be very happy with the Caliphate that ruled the Ottoman Empire in the end. The zeal seems more to be that those areas should be put back under Islam rule, no matter in what kind of state, as long as the Sharia is the law.

Another important aspect of WW1 is actually that the USA came out of its Monroe Doctrine, its self-declared isolation and its decision to avoid interfering with European politics. That is, IMO, one of the most often overlooked and actually one of the more important effects of WW1: The US decided to be a global force. Of course WW2 ended the idea that a country like the US could abstain from international politics for good, but WW1 certainly put the first crack into that shell.

I think WW1 and its effects is easily overlooked and it sure is overshadowed by WW2, its effects and atrocities, not to mention that WW2 is not only closer to today but also without doubt the war that the US was a lot more involved with, but the effects it had on Europe were quite on par with those WW2 had.

There were invasions and murdered citizens ... (4, Insightful)

perpenso (1613749) | about 9 months ago | (#44346755)

World War I had nothing to do with countries being invaded and citizens being murdered.

The Kaiser's invaded France and Belgium and the atrocities committed against civilians are well documented. So for many French and Belgium volunteers the war was precisely about invasion and murder. You are not considering that the people who declare wars and the people who fight wars are entirely two different sets of people with entirely different motivations. Perhaps some of the Kaiser's troops were thinking about murdered princes and national honor but French troops were fighting on **French** soil, they had a very different set of motivations.

Re: A few more (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44347349)

Go easy on the lad, he's likely a philosophy major and looking at a job in the "fast food"/"take away" field, post graduation.

Re: A few more (1)

number11 (129686) | about 9 months ago | (#44346315)

To all our soldiers who fought and suffered in that war a few more sunken U-Boats would feel better yet. Wretched wars that did nothing but evil should never have existed.

For certain values of "our".

Most wars do nothing but evil.

we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44345725)

"Archaeologists"...!?
I am Greek living in Greece and i feel insulted - and i am sure some very old people who were born during WW1 and are still alive are feeling the same as me.

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44345861)

Holy fuck slashdot has gotten stupid.

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (1)

PurpleAlien (797797) | about 9 months ago | (#44345877)

archaeology
/ärkälj/
Noun
The study of human history and prehistory through the excavation of sites and the analysis of artifacts.

WWI definitely qualifies as history...

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44345953)

"WWI definitely qualifies as history..."
It does qualifies as history but not as ancient history...
As i wrote i am a Greek: as many words in English, "archeology" is a compound word from the Greek "arhaio" and "logia" - "arhaio" means ancient.

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (2)

PurpleAlien (797797) | about 9 months ago | (#44345989)

There are tons of words derived from Greek that don't have the literal meaning of the original Greek word anymore. Archaeology is one of them...

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44346043)

Yes, you may be right - but exacly for that reason ("There are tons of words derived from Greek") maybe it would be better if the English language was i little more carefull with the meanings (many Greek words are used as synthetics in many English words, many times with very different meaning that leads English speakink people -and Greeks!- to confusion).

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (2)

_merlin (160982) | about 9 months ago | (#44346073)

So should English people get offended at the way Japanese hijacks words like "idol" and "panic", or the way that "VIP" effectively means "sexual services" in Vietnamese? Modern Greek has changed a lot from classical Greek, so you're arse-raping your own language anyway.

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44346139)

Modern Greek has changed a lot from classical Greek, so you're arse-raping your own language anyway.

I am one of the least educated Greeks (i left school when i was 14 - more than 97% of Greeks finish school at 18) and i can still read Homer and the rest of our ancient Greek texts (or the New Testament - writen originally in Greek) from the original.

So should English people get offended at the way Japanese hijacks words like "idol" and "panic", or the way that "VIP" effectively means "sexual services" in Vietnamese?

Well, Greeks should... "idol" and "panic" are Greek words!

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (2)

_merlin (160982) | about 9 months ago | (#44346181)

I am one of the least educated Greeks (i left school when i was 14 - more than 97% of Greeks finish school at 18) and i can still read Homer and the rest of our ancient Greek texts (or the New Testament - writen originally in Greek) from the original.

I can read New Testament Greek, and it definitely isn't the same as either classical Greek or modern Greek. The language has changed. At the rate it's going, soon 50% of the language will be some variant of the word malakas, just like English is degenerating into stuff like, "Fuck you you fucking fuck!"

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44346451)

I disagree that modern Greek is so much different from ancient Greek (for the New Testament period Greek -koine- it needs a couple of hours reading to get the few differences - for Homer Greek it needs more effort) but i agree that sadly modern Greek is mostly the words "malaka", "pousti", "gamisou"...

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (2)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 9 months ago | (#44346357)

The meaning of words evolves. Good grief what an idiotic argument. And do you think all the words in modern Greek are identical in meaning to their Koine, Classical and pre-Classical roots? Oh my goodness, we have to stop the presses, it turns out words have changed in meaning since Proto-Indo-european and we must do something about it!

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44346517)

No, not all modern Greek words are identical in meaning to their Koine, Classical and pre-Classical roots but most (almost all!) are. Anyway, i agree that the meaning of words evolves (at least for English - it's not so "mature" as Greek), it's just a little strange for a Greek (but even for some native English speaking persons?) to read about WW1 "archeology"...

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44347131)

Language is changing constantly. Nigger used to be the latin word for black. Then it became a pejorative term for blacks. Now it once again a term of respect. "You have to love all the true niggers out there." Now the pejorative term is white. No one wants to be that creepy white guy. Everyone want's 2 b a 'true nigger from the hood.'

- I really hate humanity, and wish all you faggots would get off my planet. That way I could keep my language pure, and use words to mean what they ares supposed to mean instead of all these made up meanings that you faggots give them.

e.g.
Hot means good. Cool means good. Bad means good. America means the USA. Seriously you are a bunch of faggots( which is no longer a perjorative term for homosexual, nor does it mean a bundle of sticks. It is referring to you)

Now leave already and stop changing the meaning of all my words.

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (4, Insightful)

number11 (129686) | about 9 months ago | (#44346425)

Yes, you may be right - but exacly for that reason ("There are tons of words derived from Greek") maybe it would be better if the English language was i little more carefull with the meanings (many Greek words are used as synthetics in many English words, many times with very different meaning that leads English speakink people -and Greeks!- to confusion).

"English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James Nichol
Under those conditions, it would be unwise to expect too much precision as words move into English. Not to speak of the fact that over time, some English words change meanings. And the young whippersnappers think everything that happened before they were born is "ancient".

Besides, the original article was written by Germans.

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44346579)

"English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James Nichol

Very interesting!
And i think you understand my objections with the "unsuccesfull" use sometimes (most of the times is very succesfull and impress me as a Greek) of some Greeks words from the English language. I am very proud for Greek being used so much in English (and other languages), i just expect more, because the same Greek root word ("archeo" - ancient) may be used again in English, it may be used corectly (!), and then it will be confusing for English speaking people.
And yes... you also understand my -failed- attempt to joke about those people who think WW1 stuff are "ancient" - if you want ancient stuff come to Greece!!!

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (1)

_Shad0w_ (127912) | about 9 months ago | (#44347343)

It's not confusing in the least, we just learn what the individual words mean. When people are aware of the etymology they just file it away as a quirky etymological factoid.

And there you go, another Greek rooted word, by way of French and Latin: etymology.

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (1)

Deadstick (535032) | about 9 months ago | (#44346123)

And tons of English words not used in the standard context. Like "tons".

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (1)

fnj (64210) | about 9 months ago | (#44346293)

"WWI definitely qualifies as history..."
It does qualifies as history but not as ancient history...
As i wrote i am a Greek: as many words in English, "archeology" is a compound word from the Greek "arhaio" and "logia" - "arhaio" means ancient.

Absolutely agree that archaeology is rather an odd way to characterize study of artifacts of the WW1 period. Unfortunately I don't think English has a convenient word or phrase to describe study of artifacts of modern history. Does Greek?

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44346541)

I hope that you are a native English speaker so you will confirm my belief that even you can "feel" that the word "archeology" is not so suitable for WW1 study of artifacts - but not even Greek (!) has an apropriate word (we use a phrace like yours -study of artifacts of modern history- but we don't use "archeology" since "archeo" -ancient- would make it ridiculus for a so recent period like WW1).

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (1)

_Shad0w_ (127912) | about 9 months ago | (#44347367)

A field archaeologist might find them self working on a Viking dig one project and a WW1 project the next. Are they supposed to change job title simply because the period they're working on has changed?

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (1)

mysidia (191772) | about 9 months ago | (#44347481)

A field archaeologist might find them self working on a Viking dig one project and a WW1 project the next. Are they supposed to change job title simply because the period they're working on has changed?

Then their job has expanded such that "archeology" is no longer an adequate description. They are field excavators.... or perhaps we could say Artifactologists

Or Forensic History Investigators

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about 9 months ago | (#44345909)

My grandfather fought in WWI and was born in 1899, and died 1985. Were he alive, what possible reason would exist for him to feel insulted?

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44345997)

My grandfather fought in WWI and was born in 1899, and died 1985. Were he alive, what possible reason would exist for him to feel insulted?

I suspect he would not be very amused if he know that "archaeology" is a compound word from the Greek "arhaio" and "logia" with "arhaio" meaning ancient - o.k., i am just a Greek that maybe is too much sensitive but please don't be angry with me... here in Greece we don't consider something as a subject of archeology if it's not a couple of milleniums old!

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about 9 months ago | (#44346561)

You are like the Spanish speakers who insist that "American" in English is not unambiguously something or someone from the USA. The English word "archeology" "is the study of human activity in the past," according to Wikipedia, and that's consistent with other sources (just taken because it was the first hit). That the English word doesn't exactly match the meaning of the constituent words makes it like most other constructed words. Even if it doesn't match how someone with knowledge of the original language would think of it.

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44346663)

The English word "archeology" "is the study of human activity in the past," according to Wikipedia, and that's consistent with other sources (just taken because it was the first hit). That the English word doesn't exactly match the meaning of the constituent words makes it like most other constructed words. Even if it doesn't match how someone with knowledge of the original language would think of it.

"The first stage of wisdom is the examination of the words" - Antisthenes (Greek ancient -"archeos"!- philosopher).

You are like the Spanish speakers who insist that "American" in English is not unambiguously something or someone from the USA.

Well... "American" is... something or someone from... America...

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (2)

Arker (91948) | about 9 months ago | (#44347049)

"You are like the Spanish speakers who insist that "American" in English is not unambiguously something or someone from the USA."

Except that he isnt right.

Archaeology does indeed mean study of ancient things, which is about as accurate as a one-word designation could be here, but that should not be taken to imply that there is some minimum age before the techniques, the craft, of the archaeologist may be applied. The connotation of extreme age informs but does not necessarily constrain the denotative value.

On the other hand america in both English and Spanish refers to the whole binary continent system, north and south, which includes by standard count 35 independent American States at present. The idiosyncratic usage inside the US is to some degree understandable, but the sheer dumbassitude of those that actually do as you just did in elevating street slang, and not just any street slang, but a particular phrase apparently chosen for its sheer jingoist ugliness, as if it were proper English is what blows me away. It's like you heard about 'the ugly american' but somehow got the idea this was an example to be followed with passion and commitment, rather than a cautionary tale about pitfalls to avoid.

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (2)

AK Marc (707885) | about 9 months ago | (#44347199)

Archaeology does indeed mean study of ancient things,

Wrong on both accounts.
Archeology "is the study of human activity in the past," (Wikipedia's definition, others agree, Wikipedia picked solely because it was the first hit on "archeology definition").

On the other hand america in both English and Spanish refers to the whole binary continent system,

No, it does not. "The Americas" is the English word you are looking for. You can't even capitalize proper names properly, makes it hard to believe your definitions of them.

You assert I'm wrong, but give nothing but your incorrect opinion to support your incorrect opinion. I've given one cite for support of mine, and I've given many other cites for "an American" unambiguously being a person from the USA.

I don't live in the USA, and if I call myself "a person from the USA" in Australia, I'm corrected to "an American" by the locals, so it's not just American English that dictates the usage.

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (1)

Arker (91948) | about 9 months ago | (#44347391)

Oh come on. Wikipedia's definition is a rather mercurial thing, without a timestamp that quote isnt even a reference, and the dominance of Murcans (you'll notice I am capitalising this for you consistently since you seem to care) on Wikipedia has been noticed many times before.

Even the completely Murcan-centric Merriam-Webster's even gives as it's #1 definition "A landmass in the western hemisphere that consists of the continents of North and South America joined by the Isthmus of Panama." The same unimpeachable source still relegates the Murcan usage to a subsidiary entry.

So there we go, cite vs cite, I clearly have you on that one.

My condolences on your location. I lived for a few years in 'stra'ia ms'eff mate. And your location makes your opinion make slightly more sense. In so many ways Au and US have been tied at the hips for many decades now. The ugly Murcan and the 'stra'ian bogan are sibling trailer parks and they have been cross-fertilising for awhile. Australians hate having to deal with Indian call-centers even worse than Murcans do!

You dont need a cite just use your head. There's North America and South America and at minimum there are 35 American States and the adjective American, by the rules of English is the proper adjective form to refer to any of those. Including Murcans, yes that's true, but not somehow allowing us to turn around and exclude everyone else. The fact that we dont have a good word for ourselves that others werent using already before we even got started is actually pretty extraordinary, can you think of any other group that claims to be a nation, even including ones that currently dont have any independence, that you can say the same about?

(There are several different systems of capitalisation and I normally am not pedantic about it. Language can be choked by too much order. However just to humor you I have deliberately used them everywhere I expect you expect them in this post. Except for the 'apostrophes' of course, you'll have to imagine those somehow capitalised when appropriate. )

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (5, Funny)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 9 months ago | (#44345959)

I am Greek living in Greece and i feel insulted

As well you should, but not for this particular reason.

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 9 months ago | (#44346575)

we?

Re:we didn't had submarines in ancient Greece (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44346725)

we?

Yes, "we"!
Usual jokes in Greek military (all males serve as conscripts) is to answer the usual questions about military seniority (plays an important role between soldiers) like this: i am so ancient -"archeos"- that i fight with swords - well, i am more ancient than you that i fight with rocks... e.t.c...

Archaeologists seem the best qualified ... (3, Interesting)

perpenso (1613749) | about 9 months ago | (#44346837)

"Archaeologists"...!? I am Greek living in Greece and i feel insulted - and i am sure some very old people who were born during WW1 and are still alive are feeling the same as me.

Perhaps a person trained to dig through ancients ruins and reconstruct history is also the best qualified person to dig through modern ruins and reconstruct history. Perhaps archeological techniques and best practices developed over the centuries at ancient historical sites can be applied to modern historical sites as well. Are archaeologists somehow unfit to work at a modern historical site merely because that is not their traditional use?

Yes their story must be told! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44345825)

They enlisted, they fought, they sank, they died.

And I did it without any funding too!

Only 15m down? (2)

Animats (122034) | about 9 months ago | (#44345975)

Wow. Only 15m down, off the east coast of England, and nobody noticed before? I'm surprised someone fishing didn't notice.

Re:Only 15m down? (1)

zippthorne (748122) | about 9 months ago | (#44346037)

Someone fishing probably did notice. They'd be providing habitats that are attractive to fish, after all. They probably just didn't tell anyone so they could keep the best fishing spots for themselves.

Re:Only 15m down? (1)

geniice (1336589) | about 9 months ago | (#44346213)

Eh word of such things usualy leaks out pretty fast. Thing is there are so many sites in of the british coast. Mostly things that fell overboard.

Re:Only 15m down? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44347041)

Speaking of leaks, surely all of the mercury used as ballast would have been showing up in the fish stock in the region and been another good marker indication.

Re:Only 15m down? (3, Informative)

Deadstick (535032) | about 9 months ago | (#44347165)

Submarines are ballasted with seawater. The leaking mercury you read about was cargo, being carried to Japan by one German submarine (U-864) for use in explosives manufacture.

Re:Only 15m down? (4, Funny)

dbc (135354) | about 9 months ago | (#44346151)

That probably says a lot about how pleasant sport diving is off the North East coast of England. Let's see...... Grand Cayman, or the North Sea.... think think....

a treasure trove indeed. (2)

nimbius (983462) | about 9 months ago | (#44346003)

im sure they could correlate a wealth of information by looking at german communications station logs from these vessels to determine the exact time and date of their demise

"day 15, we remain undetected off the enemy coastline. I dont know how the allies have patrolled so long and hard without fiWF##$(_NO CARRIER"

Some WW1 submarine warfare related links (4, Informative)

cold fjord (826450) | about 9 months ago | (#44346045)

"Sunken Wii U boats..." (0)

Andrio (2580551) | about 9 months ago | (#44346053)

That's what I read.

Re:"Sunken Wii U boats..." (2)

Waffle Iron (339739) | about 9 months ago | (#44346373)

That might be plausible, if the Wii U really is as big of a flop as some reports indicate.

Since Atari's New Mexico landfill no longer accepts electronic waste, scuttling at sea may be the next best option.

Wii U Boats (1)

rbpOne (2184720) | about 9 months ago | (#44346089)

What the heck is a Wii U Boat?

Re:Wii U Boats (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44346153)

You plug it in the bottom of your controller when you are playing in the bathtub ?

"Race against time" (4, Interesting)

AK Marc (707885) | about 9 months ago | (#44346115)

I love how they call it a "race against time". 100 hundred years underwater, and it's in bad shape, but some small amount of extra time, and all will be lost.

Re:"Race against time" (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44346229)

Things don't decay linearly. They visibly look okay for a long time, and then suddenly fall to pieces as the underlying structure finally gives up.

Iron ships sunk not very deep, especially.

Re:"Race against time" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44346475)

I wonder if it's some sort of historical salvage rule with it being exactly 100 years. I don't know if there is such a thing. If so then the race is against other people who have the same idea of being able to profit off of something that has just become pure salvage property rather than something with no sovereign claims.

Ownership (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44346327)

Citing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Swan_Project

Per Court precedence in the USA, as the U boats were sunk in a time of war, and non-natural causes, the submarines belong to their respective countries. Any archaeology performed, shall require that country's permission, and give the entire wreck findings, scientific findings, and any possible media derived profits to the country of derivation.

whether it be 0.5 billion in gold and silver or chunks of wood, ships sunk in a time of war are treated differently in international waters.

Re:Ownership (1)

z0idberg (888892) | about 9 months ago | (#44346721)

"All of the sunken U-boats are relatively close to the coast, at depths of no more than 15 meters (about 50 feet)"

Doesn't sound like international waters to me.

War graves? (1)

fnj (64210) | about 9 months ago | (#44346353)

Sites of sunken WW2 U-boats (and other warships of all nations) are treated as war graves with a prohibition against entering or disturbing. Why would WW1 sites be treated any differently?

How old would such wrecks have to be before skeletons would be treated as just skeletons? Most likely nobody would have any scruples nosing around wrecks of Norse longboats of 1,000 years ago, or if that is not the case, how about Greek ships from BCE?

Re:War graves? (2)

mysidia (191772) | about 9 months ago | (#44347521)

Aircraft automatically get that status. Sea ships or U-Boats have to be designated under the protection of military remains act [wikipedia.org]

Still... this act doesn't exclude archaeology; it just means that special restrictions and permitting requirements apply.

Delicious grant money. (1)

couchslug (175151) | about 9 months ago | (#44346399)

It bears reminding that wreck diving costs money, and is fun.

Make a historically entertaining case for sponsorship then have at it.

Wrecks are somehow more interesting to the public than the same or similar vessels preserved on land.

"We owe it to these people to tell their story." (3, Interesting)

couchslug (175151) | about 9 months ago | (#44346411)

Surviving submarine commanders, and Admiral Doenitz who commanded them, wrote memoirs.

There are plenty of first-hand accounts of submarine warfare from participants. They are in dead-tree media but still available.

Also very interesting are accounts of commerce raiders and Q-ships in both wars.

Its about specific boats and specific crews ... (4, Insightful)

perpenso (1613749) | about 9 months ago | (#44346919)

Surviving submarine commanders, and Admiral Doenitz who commanded them, wrote memoirs. There are plenty of first-hand accounts of submarine warfare from participants. They are in dead-tree media but still available. Also very interesting are accounts of commerce raiders and Q-ships in both wars.

Its not U-boat history in general that is being referred to. It is the specific history of these boats, the specific story of these crewman. I once visited the submariner's memorial at Pearl Harbor. It lists the U.S. submarines that fought in the Pacific during WW2. A bunch of submarines were lost. Some of these were marked as "sunk", some of these were marked as "overdue, presumed lost". To many people there is something unfinished, something sadder, about "overdue, presumed lost". Moving a ship and crew from the "overdue, presumed lost" list to the "sunk" list, giving a location, is meaningful. Especially to family members.

Re:Its about specific boats and specific crews ... (1)

DerekLyons (302214) | about 9 months ago | (#44347273)

A bunch of submarines were lost. Some of these were marked as "sunk", some of these were marked as "overdue, presumed lost". To many people there is something unfinished, something sadder, about "overdue, presumed lost".

FWIW, to the Brothers of the 'Phin, they're all the same - they're all our brothers on Enternal Patrol.
 

Moving a ship and crew from the "overdue, presumed lost" list to the "sunk" list, giving a location, is meaningful. Especially to family members.

That's why so many have been found in recent years - the gear has gotten (relatively) cheap and the children of those men are retiring, and have the money and the time to go find them.

I knew they wouldn't float ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44347357)

Sunken WiiU boats? If you ask me the whole thing sunk.

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