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Galeon At A Glance

Hemos posted more than 13 years ago | from the looking-under-the-hood dept.

The Internet 148

gatha wrote to us about Galeon, how it actually works and some of its feature set. I've been playing with Galeon now and again - but I've still found that except for a small issue with handling preformatted text, Konqueror has taken over as my web browser of choice.

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Re:I could create another compiler to... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#127767)

I feel sorry for the KDE developers. These trolls make them look really bad.

Why someone would want to write a browser just so it "intigrates" better with thier preferred desktop I don't get. If it was a trivial task (Like a clock or something) then I would understand wanting to do it *just* to do it. But Gnome has lost the desktop war. Will they continue to try to keep up with KDE or start working with KDE to make Linux great?
Um, this is so obvious I just have to point it out. It's KDE who made khtml, a browser component to integrate with KDE. Galeon is just a shell around Mozilla.

(Posting anonymously because you're not worthy of my karma.)

Re:Galeon is getting it right... (4)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#127768)

> My only wish: that there was a Windows port of Galeon

Maybe you're looking for K-Meleon [kmeleon.org] , which call itself "the Windows answer to galeon"?

Re:Antialiasing fonts (1)

Alan (347) | more than 13 years ago | (#127771)

Now if only I could read my verisign x509 encrypted mail I could ditch netscape COMPLETELY!

Re:Konqueror is good but it has its share of issue (1)

Alan (347) | more than 13 years ago | (#127772)

I'm quite sure this will be an option. If you're very concerned you should probably check the gtk-2* and gtk-devel lists to see if the issue has come up yet.

Give mozilla a chance. :) (4)

Craig Maloney (1104) | more than 13 years ago | (#127775)

I've been downloading the latest nightlies, and I must say (yes, I know it's beensaid here may times, many ways), that Mozilla has become my browser of choice. It feels like it's getting faster every iteration of the way, and bugs I've reported have been fixed. I've been using it for the past month, and I must say I'm very satisfied with it. I'm finding myself firing up Netscape less and less, and finding myself disappointed every time I have to. No, I'm not a troll, nor am I looking for flamebait. I'm just a satisfied user.

However, I am glad that there are browsers like Konqueror and Galeon out there. Why? Choice! We're getting some pretty kick-ass projects out of some very dedicated individuals, and they're making it harder for people to choose which one to use based on merits. They're ALL good! :) I commend everyone working on thes projects for giving back so much of their time, and giving us choices in the browser market. You developers deserve more thanks than you or your projects get in this kind of forum.

Kudos to you!

skipstone instead of galeon. (1)

Hitch (1361) | more than 13 years ago | (#127776)

skipstone doesn't require gnome, but it has most of the features of galeon, plus it's just recently implemented a plugin architechture. so anything you want that it doesn't have, you can add. I've completely switched over. the only things that I have a problem with are mozilla related.
---------------------------------------- ------
All that glitters has a high refractive index.

Re:cram it (1)

tzanger (1575) | more than 13 years ago | (#127778)

KDE is plain and simple, the most disgusting user interface experience one could ever have. It is a direct copy of the win9x interface, except it falls way short. The look feel is modeled exactly after win9x, which in itself leaves much to be desired, but QT/KDE just don't get it right.

I dunno, I rather like the QT widget-set and the way it all fits together. Now I don't have a panel and I don't run KDM; I run WindowMaker and thus have a dock; this keeps me far happier than KDM or Win9x/2k ever did.

Yes I know that GTK can be resized just like QT and I agree that GTK is prettier -- they seem to have the lion's share of the icon artists, but the QT widgets work nicer, play nicer and "feel" ten times more functional than the GTK widgetset. I only wish that QT had tear-away menus like GTK.

Poetry (1)

topher1kenobe (2041) | more than 13 years ago | (#127779)

Is there a name for a truly pure troll/flame? This is quintessential. Perfect. Pure.

Though I don't agree with you, you have my respect as someone who can so perfectly offend.

Re:stopped using KDE (2)

logicTrAp (2864) | more than 13 years ago | (#127780)

While I love galeon and am starting to dread having to use anything else, it's not exactly light-weight on the resources:

user 10158 0.0 11.6 45596 29820 pts/0 S Jun25 0:13 /opt/galeon/bin/galeon-bin

Still, it renders so fast and is so stable these days (and RAM is so cheap) that the memory usage seems like a small price to pay for such an excellent piece of software.

Now, I just need Ximian to release their new stuff for Solaris 7 so I can get a working mozilla install at work and get rid of Netscape...

Re:Konqueror is good but it has its share of issue (1)

Moritz Moeller - Her (3704) | more than 13 years ago | (#127782)

Well you can't be using current CVS. because at least the lists.debian.org works just fine here. Maybe a temporary bug biting you? Also the font setting with AA has always worked here.
Upgrade to X-4.1 and qt-2.3.1 tro get even prettier faster AA fonts.

The other two matters you mentioned (https proxy and several characters setes on one page) really are matters, but they are not what I would call grave.

--

Re:Modularity will always win! (1)

Moritz Moeller - Her (3704) | more than 13 years ago | (#127783)

What so special and so much BETTER about Konqueror?

1. It relies only on GPL/LGPL and BSD style software unlike other software that grants special powers to AOL.

2. It is more modular than anything. You have TWO html renderers, the excellent khtml and you guessed it kmozilla, which was only done to show that it can be done. khtml is simply better.

3. Konqueror is very small, it is just a container for all ind of plugins, or kparts as they are called. There exist generic kparts (nspluginviewer) and specialized ones (kdvi). Oh, if you have kword installed, you even open .doc files in konqueror.

4. Konqueror makes no difference between all the different protocols. smb networking, ftp, even pop, smtp and ldap can be browsed.
Did I mention audio cd- grabbing (audiocd:/)? Automatic conversion to MP3 and OGG included? Or floppy:/ ? No mounting, just a wrapper around the mtools.

5. Did I mention that it starts up in less then 2 seconds? (KDE-2.2beta1 on AMD Athlon 600, KDE loaded) New windows appear in under one second and are responding.

6. Numerous plugins exist: Web page archiving, Translation, HTML validation, Image retrieval via neural net... Netscape plugins (realplayer and flash) as well as Java and so on work fine.

8. The previews are really nice: Automatic previews for postscript, images, pdf, text, html and brand new, audio lprevlistening (just rest the mouse over an MP3 to hear it).

...

So before you think that galeon is modular, have a look at konqueror. This thing is the best.
--

QT HAS tear away menues. (1)

Moritz Moeller - Her (3704) | more than 13 years ago | (#127784)

Unfortunately newbies tend to tear them off and get confused.
So they are not used everywhere in KDE. KDE-2.2beta1 has a Start menue that you can tear off though if you need it on the screen at all times.
--

Re:Modularity will always win! (2)

johnnyb (4816) | more than 13 years ago | (#127789)

Given that _both_ Mozilla and Galeon are beta/alpha software, I don't see where the problem with this is.

Re:Great stuff from Mozilla.org (2)

johnnyb (4816) | more than 13 years ago | (#127790)

Actually, I think you are confused on terms. Gecko (I think) still fits on one disk. It is Mozilla that doesn't.


Someone needs to take Gecko, remove XUL, remove Mozilla and add a decent, smart API (just like Netscape's plugin API, which is, what, 5 functions?) and release that browser only app. Galeon and Skipstone are nice strips of Mozilla, but they still require a lot of Moz parts unfortunately.


Actually, Galeon uses very little Mozilla. It only uses the rendering engine and http/https stuff. It handles its own bookmarks, it uses an external handler to handle downloads. It uses very, very little Mozilla.


Also, if you don't like XPCom (which very few people do), you could just use it as a GTK widget. Yes, Mozilla compiles down to just a regular GTK widget. Then, you don't have to mess with XPCom _at all_.


Gecko is doing a great job. It is still the best rendering engine available. Why don't you trust the Mozilla people? The reason they have so many bug reports is that they count everything a bug that even remotely looks incorrect. Most applications that track bugs that well, (1) take a long time to finish, and (2) have a very large bug database. I imagine if Konqueror classified everything as a bug that Mozilla does, it would have a large bug database, too. I've seen the list of non-standards-compliance tests that Konqueror fails. In Mozilla, each failure would be listed as at least one bug.


Now, I actually like Konqueror, and use it on occasion. But please, Mozilla is aiming high. Don't trash them because their aims are higher than yours.

Re:Great stuff from Mozilla.org (2)

Rob Kaper (5960) | more than 13 years ago | (#127791)

Gecko is a great rendering engine.

Most definitely. With a terrible framework underneath. Gecko is no longer the "fits on one disk and you're happy" jewel.

I investigated it for a kiosk system and I was not happy. After untarring Mozilla (400+ MB!) and having everything set up I wanted to set up a remote app to control Gecko through XPCOM.

About 14 ns*.h includes, 30 lines of code and hours looking for documentation which was all outdated, I gave up because I couldn'y even register with XPCOM yet. Even the developerWorks tutorials at IBM.com didn't help. :-(

It took me one include file, a few lines of code and about fifteen minutes of searching on the web before I had an application talking to Konqueror.

Someone needs to take Gecko, remove XUL, remove Mozilla and add a decent, smart API (just like Netscape's plugin API, which is, what, 5 functions?) and release that browser only app. Galeon and Skipstone are nice strips of Mozilla, but they still require a lot of Moz parts unfortunately.

Pity Mozilla.org is _seriously_ undermaned (they are complete & utterly bogged down in bugs).

This will be circular, but I now know why: the entrance level of Mozilla coding is too high. Too much code, too little documentation.

Before hitting that -1, Flamebait: yes, I will admit I am a KDE developer and I am biased. But I develop KDE as a hobby and had to make an unbiased decision at work and concluded that while Gecko is a beauty in concept, the Mozilla layer surrounding it destroyed a lot.

Please, someone. Fork Gecko and make it what it was supposed to be. As long as Gecko is maintained by the Mozilla guys, I habe more trust in khtml.

Re:I could create another compiler to... (2)

Psiren (6145) | more than 13 years ago | (#127792)

He's just a troll. But, he makes some valid points. I've just decided to use the KDE libs for an app I'm writing because the Gnome ones are in such a bad state. Hardly anything seems to be stable, and what there is is pretty poor in comparision to KDE/QT. Also, the documentation for KDE and QT is complete, whereas the docs for Gnome are unfinished. Not even GTK 1.2 has a fully documented API, and thats been around for ages.

The trouble with Gnome is it wants to run before it can walk. Nothing ever seems to get finished. Libraries are half-writtten and then dropped in favour of something new.

It's a shame, because I think Gnome could be really good.

Re:Modularity will always win! (1)

Leimy (6717) | more than 13 years ago | (#127793)

"Maybe Galeon should always restart with a dialog saying "Sorry I crashed, but it was Mozilla's fault!" "

Then I guess modularity sucks really. If you can't depend on what you are calling to be correct you have to do it yourself. I personally use Mozilla only for the fonts. Netscape is hideous but actually works better for much HTML than Mozilla. I haven't tried Konqueror in a long time. I may be switching back over from WM to KDE soon.

Dave

Why Galeon Rocks... (3)

Skeezix (14602) | more than 13 years ago | (#127795)

It's fast. Gecko (especially recent builds) renders beautifully and does it very fast. You can also start galeon with the -s option (server). This will cause it to behave kind of like IE, initializing things without actually popping up a window. I have this saved in my Gnome session so it starts up as a server every time I log into Gnome. Then I just start galeon with -w for new window in existing process and it's there instantly.

Tabbed Browsing rocks. I don't know how to live without this now. Nor more multiple windows for me. I just middle click links and they start in a new tab. All annoying popups go there too, where I can ignore them.

Re:Galeon can't compete for long (1)

The Grey Mouser (14648) | more than 13 years ago | (#127796)

As Galeon, gets better so does Mozilla. When will Galeon support Flash and all those various plugins out there? Konqueror already does this. Konqueror even has application and component embedding for crying out loud. When Galeon reaches this point, Mozilla will be usable, not to mention that Konqueror is here now.

Mozilla/Galeon has been able to use Flash since at least 0.8. I've used this and the RealAudio plugin a number of times (mostly at joecartoon.com :-) You just drop the plugin into /usr/lib/mozilla-0.9.1/plugins, and off you go. . .

Cheers,

Michael

Re:Konqueror's HTML rendering: too good to be trut (1)

Geek Boy (15178) | more than 13 years ago | (#127797)

No they did not use code from Mozilla. kmozilla is not a part of konqueror, but a plugin which can be used instead of the khtml engine.

Virtually everyone uses KHTML with Konqueror and thus they are using 100% new code.

Is it still a pig? (1)

ChrisWong (17493) | more than 13 years ago | (#127798)

Last time I saw a memory usage figure for Galeon, it was no smaller than Mozilla's, weighing in at an elephantine 30MB or so. Few modern graphical browsers are
as small as Opera, but they can surely do better than that. Anyone has a memory
usage figure for the current Galeon? Thanks.

Yes, we know.... (2)

Orm (23588) | more than 13 years ago | (#127800)

A bit offtopic, but...
Every time /. has a story about some browser they *always* write that they use Konqueror! Yes, it is a great browser and yes, we should know about alternatives, but c'mon.. We know already!

So everytime you mention MS and/or Windows, you will go "Yeah, but I use Linux. It is great!" ??

If you use _insert-web-browser-name_, post it in a comment, and get modded down!

-- Vidar

Re:stopped using KDE (2)

WNight (23683) | more than 13 years ago | (#127801)

If they had, they'd have missed a lot of functionality that needed links into the rendering engine to properly work. Now, Gecko, the main engine, is so flexible it can do anything Mozilla throws at it, as well as just about anything else anyone would want in a browser.

Is Mozilla too big? Ok, grab Galleon, which comes with a full-featured Gecko rendering engine, thanks to the over-large Mozilla.

Maybe you don't agree with the specific subset of features that Mozilla had, but because they have a ton, it'll be easier for specialty browsers in the future to have the exact set of features that you want.

Or, if you want an embeddable HTML rendering engine for anything.. Want to do nicely formatted manuals for your application in a platform independent way? Use Gecko to render them, it runs (and produces consistent output) on more platforms than your program will...

Re:Galeon can't compete for long (1)

Hopeless (27195) | more than 13 years ago | (#127802)

When will Galeon support Flash and all those various plugins out there?
Errr... like already perhaps? Since Galeon uses the mozilla rendering engine, all the plugins work exactly the same.

What you should have said is "as Mozilla gets better, so does Galeon". Which would have been true.

Quite how such an uninformed comment got modded up escapes me entirely....

Re:What's it like? (1)

RossyB (28685) | more than 13 years ago | (#127803)

Make sure you are using Galeon 0.11 and Mozilla 0.9.1 - there were bugs in Mozilla before that release.

Also, because of certain brain-dead features of Mozilla, it is often best to run Mozilla as root first, then as a normal user.

MSIE standards? (1)

Tony-A (29931) | more than 13 years ago | (#127804)

Published? Where?

Re:Galeon can't compete for long (1)

Crimson Midget (41436) | more than 13 years ago | (#127810)

Um, Galeon uses Flash just fine, and any other plugin Mozilla can.

Re:Spam (1)

The_Jazzman (45650) | more than 13 years ago | (#127811)

Konq. is still quite new...

...it's also a *browser*

Re:Konqueror is good but it has its share of issue (1)

QuoteMstr (55051) | more than 13 years ago | (#127812)

All applicatns? Will it be possible to turn off? I hate antialiasing.

Re:Konqueror sucks... (1)

QuoteMstr (55051) | more than 13 years ago | (#127813)

Another annoying this is it, like all KDE programs, assumes the user is an idiot. I mean, the user can't even be trusted with XLFD, but instead just has "small, medium, and large" for the font size? What kind of crap is that? I hate KDE.

Re:Konqueror is good but it has its share of issue (1)

YellowBook (58311) | more than 13 years ago | (#127814)

Konqueror is great, and web pages look terrific with anti aliasing is turned on. Galeon / moz can't do it as far as I know (may be with GTK 2?)

GTK+ 2 will have antialiasing in all apps, so you can bet that Galeon will. I saw a bit of talk on the Galeon development list about a port to the GTK+ 2 beta, but I don't know if anything will come of it quite yet. Mozilla will have to also be ported to GTK 2 to get antialiasing in the actual web pages.

If you're brave and you feel up to recompiling gtk+, mozilla, and galeon, there are patches available against gtk+ 1.2.9 or later and mozilla 0.9 or later that provide antialiasing. I've got galeon running with antialiased fonts using this approach. The one caveat is that some apps will break. Many of them can be convinced to work by recompiling, some of them (notably nautilus and xemacs-gtk-gnome) can't. If you feel lucky, the patches are at http://www.chez.com/alex9858/gtkaa/ [chez.com] . I'm not currently using them, because I need xemacs-gtk-gnome and I like nautilus, but if anyone's interested I can post source rpms and i386 (rh6.x) rpms.


--
The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must cover
Yhtill forever. (R. W. Chambers, the King in Yellow)

Re:Konqueror is good but it has its share of issue (1)

YellowBook (58311) | more than 13 years ago | (#127815)

Will it be possible to turn off?

Yes; it's controlled by an environment variable, just like antialiasing in QT.


--
The scalloped tatters of the King in Yellow must cover
Yhtill forever. (R. W. Chambers, the King in Yellow)

Re:cram it (1)

dinky (58716) | more than 13 years ago | (#127816)

Umm... you can theme KDE(QT). You know that right? :)

Obviously not ;)

two cents (2)

joq (63625) | more than 13 years ago | (#127817)


Judging on my log files for my site, I noticed that obviously the majority was Microsoft, followed by Netscape, then Mozilla Gecko, followed by Konqueror. I've tried Konqueror a while back and it was ok, I dreaded having to download KDE entirely though since I couldn't find konqueror as a standalone, and if I'm not mistaken it doesn't come as a standalone. (who knows I stay away from KDE2)

The browser wars really make little sense to me, for one I can view everything just fine in Netscape under FreeBSD, except Java/Javascripts blow, however when neccessary I fire up Mozilla to quash all problems. My problem with Mozilla is, it's rather (dare I say) bloated, and takes up a lot of resources, hence I guess to each their own.

Opera was cool a ways back, and I haven't tried it in some time, but I've heard, and seen posted there are click me spam ads all over the place. Lynx is great for visiting this site, but all in all I stick with good old faithful Netscape, who always loads my bitches' [antioffline.com] every curve just fine.

Re:KDE vs Gnome vs The rest of the Window Managers (2)

Greylin (72313) | more than 13 years ago | (#127818)

I'll give you this...KDE, WindowMaker, Afterstep, and even XFce are smoother and more stable for the most part, than Gnome has been for me. I run WindowMaker and XFce primarily, because I like the fact that they don't look like windoze.

Given the choice, I'd rather use the Gnome Panel than KDE...because although it might have to mount in a corner, it can be made to sit only in the corner. KDE's main toolbar/taskbar/panel always takes up the entire edge you place it on. If they could make it sit in a corner, then perhaps I'd look at it.

I came to linux because I don't like windows - how it looks, how it works (or doesn't). Why would I want a GUI that still looks like it?

http://www.xfce.org/
Small, fast, lightweight desktop environment
Get yours now ;)

cram it (1)

Ender Ryan (79406) | more than 13 years ago | (#127821)

KDE is plain and simple, the most disgusting user interface experience one could ever have. It is a direct copy of the win9x interface, except it falls way short. The look feel is modeled exactly after win9x, which in itself leaves much to be desired, but QT/KDE just don't get it right. Everything is just slightly off, which is incredibly irritating. The theming support QT is awful.Just compare all the GTK/GNOME themes to KDE themes, there is not comparison at all. GTK/GNOME just kills KDE when it comes to visual appeal.

GTK is the most beautiful widget set I have ever seen. It has it's own unique look and feel. The default theme looks similar to Motif, but it has a much cleaner, fresher look, and it has a feel all of it's own.

As for GNOME itself, I like it. I like the menu panels, and the very configurable edge/corner panels. The icon sets that come with GNOME are 10x better than the ugly cruft KDE comes with.

This is all IMO, and I don't mean to offend any rabid KDE users. KDE is great, I just personally hate it.

As for your opinion that Gnome should close up shop, you can cram it. Who are you to tell them what they should/shouldn't do, it's their project and they can do whatever the hell they want with it.

I'll stick with having choices thank you very much, I much prefer Gnome over KDE.

learn to read (2)

Ender Ryan (79406) | more than 13 years ago | (#127824)

And I'll try and learn to write ; )

You didn't read my whole post, I talked about the theming support in KDE. I think it's a pretty lame attempt at theming, GTK does a hell of a much better job.

But, just IMO. To each his own. I like having choices, choices are good.

ummm... no (2)

Ender Ryan (79406) | more than 13 years ago | (#127825)

That's not what I said. My point was that one was a copy, and one was an original design.

I suppose all the Gnome developers, and all the Gnome users are all just silly people then? They made a GRAPHICAL USER INTERFACE look nicer than the competition's, how silly of them.

Re:What's it like? (1)

barneyfoo (80862) | more than 13 years ago | (#127827)

Psm works fine for me. Get the newest release of galeon, and mozilla 0.9.1, and make sure your mozilla comes with psm. That's all there's to it.

Re:two cents (2)

Eil (82413) | more than 13 years ago | (#127828)


I've found that by taking an xterm, making the window huge (something on the order of 200x100 chars) and running links [freshmeat.net] , one can get a pretty darn decent text-only web browsing experience. It does tables and formatting very nicely, as opposed to lynx.

Opera has it (1)

ChristTrekker (91442) | more than 13 years ago | (#127830)

I love "minimum font size" - it saves me lots of headaches. And if the whole page is set to that tiny font size, I can zoom the whole page easily. Opera rocks.


I have zero tolerance for zero-tolerance policies.

Opera ads (1)

ChristTrekker (91442) | more than 13 years ago | (#127831)

I don't know who's been telling you about Opera, but he's wrong. Opera 5 rocks my world. I've been using it as my primary browser since January. I'm not registered, so there's an ad up in the corner of the app, but it bothers me not in the least bit. Download it, try it out, you'll like it.


I have zero tolerance for zero-tolerance policies.

Re:Try IE6 (1)

Sc00ter (99550) | more than 13 years ago | (#127834)

Actually, you can get IE5 for Solaris.. I've used it, it's not to bad. Some people have gotten it to run under linux, but it's a huge pain in the ass.. or so I hear.
--

Re:TT font problem with Galeon? (1)

kevdog (100392) | more than 13 years ago | (#127835)

There's a bug in how Mozilla scales fonts on linux. I'm not sure if the fix has been checked in at the moment, though.

Re:TT font problem with Galeon? (2)

Mendax Veritas (100454) | more than 13 years ago | (#127836)

No, Galeon displays everything beautifully for me. I'm using Galeon 0.11 with Mozilla 0.9.1 on Debian Sid (unstable).

Given that Galeon is just using Mozilla's rendering engine, I'm not sure how it could be introducing rendering problems of its own (other than, say, ROT13'ing all the HTML before letting Gecko see it).

Fugly Konqueror Fonts? (1)

Cheshire Cat (105171) | more than 13 years ago | (#127837)

Does anyone else find the fonts in Konqueror painful to look at. I swear if they could fix this one problem they would have a first-tier web browser. Please, K-team, fix this for me!

Re:No konqueror (1)

hexx (108181) | more than 13 years ago | (#127839)

Ummm.... what's the site, and the username/password?
I'll check on *my* copy of Konq ... y'know ... just to "be sure".
:)

Konquerer (2)

Satai (111172) | more than 13 years ago | (#127841)

Until very recently I hated KDE like the plague - and then we installed RH 7.1 here, along with the KDE pack. I fell in love with the system! GNOME has a lot of very *good* features, and *good* applications, but KDE is so much more mature. Konquerer is great for browsing - the cookie warning, while a little thing, is still important to me.

But I haven't given up on GNOME yet. Galeon works very well for the important stuff - it'll load a /. comment page in the 'blink of an eye.'

(And Hemos, I think we all know Konquerer is your favorite!)

Re:Konqueror is good but it has its share of issue (1)

ReelOddeeo (115880) | more than 13 years ago | (#127842)

First Konqui can't display several charsets on a page. So, for example the bottom of the page on www.debian.org (where you have the lists of available language for the page written in the native language.

IIRC Konqueror does not have separate options for http and https proxies

IMHO, these are both fairly obscure problems that wouldn't affect the vast majority of users. While both are desirable things to get fixed, they would certianly not top my priority list, were I on this project.

Some pages do not display correctly (they're 10 times too wide with many blank spaces for example), even when faking the user agent to that of moz or netscape (with which the page works) (but this is very rare, most pages display correctly).

This sounds like a higher priority issue, although still, you seem to indicate it is very rare.

I use Konqueror as my primary browser. I'm not trying to use this message to convert others to Konqueror. But I haven't heard you say anything yet that should dissuade most users from using Konqueror. Certianly, if the above problems affect you personally and the pages you frequent -- then it is a very annoying problem for you. But consider how these particular issues affect everyone at large.

--

Galeon can't compete for long (1)

Karma Sucks (127136) | more than 13 years ago | (#127844)

As Galeon, gets better so does Mozilla. When will Galeon support Flash and all those various plugins out there? Konqueror already does this. Konqueror even has application and component embedding for crying out loud. When Galeon reaches this point, Mozilla will be usable, not to mention that Konqueror is here now.

Re:stopped using KDE (1)

stikves (127823) | more than 13 years ago | (#127845)

Well today standalone web browsers may be a big thing, but this surely will change.

By the introduction of the .NET service, web browsers (%90 of them, eg: IE) will become "web platforms". Everybody will access their applications via IE.

That day konqi will not have even the slightest chance to stand against IE. Even Linux would die, if it didn't have moz.

People do not seem to look from this side.

Konqueror's HTML rendering: too good to be truth? (3)

Rushuru (135939) | more than 13 years ago | (#127846)

I often see comments like "I don't care if mozilla / netscape dies because we have Konqueror now" or "Mozilla is bloatware / gecko /galeon sucks" on /. or irc.

And I admit that the way Konqueror renders HTML pages is really impressive for such a small project (I read somewhere that there's only one full time konq developper).

It seems almost to good to be truth: one small team of KDE developper made a browser that is on par with that of a huge organization with many developpers like Netscape / AOL / Mozilla community?

It seems to good to be truth!
So I always wondered whether the Konqueror team has not re-used some code from Mozilla / Gecko.

If not, then congrats to the KDE guys. Too bad there have been duplicate efforts to develop these 2 terrific web browsers
If they did reuse some code (I'm not 100% sure that the mozilla licence permits that though), then I hope that Konqueror fans will stop bashing mozilla and galeon.

Konqueror is good but it has its share of issues (5)

Rushuru (135939) | more than 13 years ago | (#127847)

Konqueror is great, and web pages look terrific with anti aliasing is turned on. Galeon / moz can't do it as far as I know (may be with GTK 2?)

However Konqueror has a number of issues, and I find myself using mozilla more than konqueror although I use KDE as my desktop environment

- First Konqui can't display several charsets on a page. So, for example the bottom of the page on www.debian.org (where you have the lists of available language for the page written in the native languagem like "ú-{OEê for japanese etc.) does not display correctly. Mozilla and even Netscape 4.7 have absolutely nop problem with this. This issue is fixed with qt 3.0, and new releases of KDE (after 2.2) may switch to qt3, hence clearing this bug.

- Some pages do not display correctly (they're 10 times too wide with many blank spaces for example), even when faking the user agent to that of moz or netscape (with which the page works) (but this is very rare, most pages display correctly).

- IIRC Konqueror does not have separate options for http and https proxies

- And I also have that very annoying bug with AA turneed on: if a web page does not specify to use a given font, then konqueror uses the first font in the list. In my case, it's a fantasy font, which makes reading pages like http://lists.debian.org a real nightmare. There's a default font option in my KDE 2.2 post alpha 2 build, but it doesn't seem to work.

Re:Galeon can't compete for long (1)

JabXVI (141079) | more than 13 years ago | (#127848)

Um, Flash DOES work in Galeon, and I imagine any other plugin that works in Mozilla works in Galeon as well.

Re:Galeon is getting it right... (1)

pjl5602 (150416) | more than 13 years ago | (#127850)

Maybe you're looking for K-Meleon, which call itself "the Windows answer to galeon"?

But, AFAIK, K-Melon lacks the coolest feature of Galeon -- tabbed browsing!

Galeon is getting it right... (3)

TheLocustNMI (159898) | more than 13 years ago | (#127851)

Frankly, i LOVE Galeon. I can't get enough of it. It's almost like someone actually PAID ATTENTION TO THE USER FOR ONCE. We don't need these all-in-one bloatfests (Where's my StarOffice CD?), we need applications that do one thing, do it well, and have features relevant to the application.

My only wish: that there was a Windows port of Galeon i could use at work on my NT box (nudge,nudge).

Geez, I thought that post was about Galeon! (5)

coupland (160334) | more than 13 years ago | (#127852)

"A new version of Mozilla has been posted on their site, but I only use Konqueror."

"Here's a site with some great info on Galeon, which doesn't happen to be Konqueror, the world's greatest web browser."

"John Carmack has been interviewed on Blue's News. John's neighbour owns an Apple iMac. Apple is run by Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs once used Netscape which isn't Konqueror!"

Please, please cut it out Hemos. We don't care how horny Konqueror makes you, it doesn't have to be mentioned in every single post.


---

Re:Try IE6 (1)

shippo (166521) | more than 13 years ago | (#127853)

Best browser by far - pah! Can't even render alpha-channel PNG images properly!

Re:Konqueror sucks... (1)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 13 years ago | (#127854)

The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners.

Actually, Microsoft makes some pretty good joysticks. I really like my sidewinder pro. Works great with Descent 3.

--
"That's one small step for man..."

Re:Mod hemos's article down... (1)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 13 years ago | (#127856)

"Holly war"? This opens up *so* many possibilities...

Re:Galeon is getting it right... (2)

ichimunki (194887) | more than 13 years ago | (#127860)

Maybe because after shelling out $180 for Windows and another $300 for Office (numbers pulled out of thin air just to be cantankerous)... no one feels like paying $25 for some web browser when there are at least two available for free that work with pretty much every web page under the sun.

Re:Konqueror sucks... (2)

11223 (201561) | more than 13 years ago | (#127862)

Look to see if a package named kdebindings-kmozilla (IIRC, the name might be slightly different) is installed... if so, remove it. You might actually be using mozilla inside of Konqueror instead of Konqueror's KHTML engine. While it's a neat tech demo, it sucks for actual use.

Re:hey whore (1)

Peter Dyck (201979) | more than 13 years ago | (#127863)

Front 242 kicks ass!

Re:Galeon is getting it right... (1)

Telastyn (206146) | more than 13 years ago | (#127864)

I actually downloaded and tried the little guy. It's still sitting on my desktop for those times that weird IE problems crop up (ex. caching the wrong slashdot ip in the recent outage). It's pretty speedy, and renders things acceptibly, excellently if the site isn't IE required.

It is a good backup browser, though unfortunately IE is pretty good and stable these days.

Bagh humbug (5)

angry old man (211217) | more than 13 years ago | (#127866)

Galeon represents what a browser should stand for! It doesn't have none of these fancy schmancy bells-and-whistles bloat that you young whipsnappers come to expect from each and every application. Shortly after Emacs came out, I knew that we were headed down the road to disaster.

If you young kids repected your elders, then you would have kept with the Unix philosophy of using small dedicated tools for specific tasks. Read email? You'd use mail. Browse web? Use Lynx. Look at images? Use xv. Use talk for an instant messager

Nowadays you need fancy schmancy browsers that do everything. Galeon is a step back in the right direction. Although I don't agree that bookmarks should be part of a browser (I used to have to remember the IP addresses in my head), galeon provides an efficient specific web browsing experience. Maybe all you programmers could take some notes from the guy who gave us Galeon!

Re:stopped using KDE (1)

abdulwahid (214915) | more than 13 years ago | (#127867)

I think that if the Mozilla team had concentrated on bringing out this kind of browser, just the browser, they could have been done much earlier and captured so much more market share.

I don't think that is true. Mozilla is aimed at all users, Windows, Mac users and of course UNIX users. However, it is not specifically aimed at geeks. What you forget is most people can't distinguish between Web, Email and Usenet. They want to have the "Internet" through one package. They think that IE is a tool for using the internet. Any alternative has to implement all of the functions that the average user expects. That is why Mozilla is so bloated. It has to be that way.

If you don't like it, then run galeon. It is fast and lightweight and I like it for those reasons. But it doesn't have the functionality that an average user would expect from it. It is aimed at a different group of people.

holly wars. (2)

saintlupus (227599) | more than 13 years ago | (#127868)

holly wars between ourselves is everything we don't need.

Flame them all with balls of holly,
fa la la la la, la la la la.
Prove the Windows users' folly,
fa la la la la, la la la la.

If you use GNOME or KDE,
fa la la la la, la la la la,
You are sure more e-lite than me,
fa la la la la, la la la la.

--saint
----

Re:Antialiasing fonts (1)

jrockway (229604) | more than 13 years ago | (#127869)

I was rather impressed with Moz 0.9.1 when I tried it last night. Earler releases reminded my of Java Apps (i.e. you press a button, 10 minutes later the graphices change :) Moz 0.9.1 is sooo much faster. I'm converted :)

Mod hemos's article down... (1)

C0vardeAn0nim0 (232451) | more than 13 years ago | (#127870)

as "Flamebait".

This article served only to restart the holly war between KDE and Gnome, and holly wars between ourselves is everything we don't need. Their only purpose is to help the real enemy [microsoft.com] .


--

Re:stopped using KDE (1)

crawlie (235060) | more than 13 years ago | (#127871)

I would be using Galeon right now, but there's one feature in Konqueror what I've not found in other browsers: "Minimum Font Size" (in Konqueror Browser - Appearance tab). I've set it to 12. I don't want to have all the fonts in pages to be insanely big, but I also hate that itty-bitty-8-or-10-size font.

Can anything similar to this be done with Galeon? I wish I could.

Re:Try IE6 (1)

ipinkus (238283) | more than 13 years ago | (#127873)

Depressing yet true, IE5 ran faster and more reliably than Netscape on my Solaris machine.

I see no need to move beyond 5...

Re:cram it (1)

diamondc (241058) | more than 13 years ago | (#127874)

the newest kde (from cvs around the beginning of June is the last time I updated) can do tear off menus now.

Re:learn to read (2)

iomud (241310) | more than 13 years ago | (#127876)

Certainly the robustness of a desktop lies in it's ability to not look like windows, and have a k3wl theming engine. You're right, it is just your opinion it's a silly one but it's all yours.

Re:Bagh humbug (1)

jcphil (243106) | more than 13 years ago | (#127878)

Why back in my day, we had to enter computer commands into a stone tablet!! That's the way it was and we liked it!

Re:Try IE6 (1)

rixster (249481) | more than 13 years ago | (#127882)

Can you forward the link for downloading /installing onto linux / bsd / pls ? Better still, the source so we can recompile it under any os.
Thanks in advance

Re:Try IE6 (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 13 years ago | (#127883)

Actually, I see no compelling differences to move beyond MSIE5.0. I haven't read anything suggesting an advancement in browser technology that wasn't a direct benefit to Microsoft or a perceptable security risk yet to be uncovered. Microsoft had taken the browser market but for all the innovation they are famous for, why does it seem that browser innovation has topped out?

Re:Skipstone (1)

dalutong (260603) | more than 13 years ago | (#127885)

I actually like skipstone, true. it is pretty much featureless, but it is PERFECT for just surfting. especially since I have all my home PCs running off of one LTSP server. -Hey, you try to have a computer for everyone in your house at less than 200 per machine running at 1Ghz!

Anyway, take a peek at skipstone

apt-get install skipstone

oh wait? you don't run debian? why?

(BTW, skipstone requires gcc-3.0-base for whatever reason. which is okay, since i am trying to move to gcc-3.0's C++ ABI) -- it doesn't brake anything, don't worry

Personally, i try to use mozilla or galeon (2)

dalutong (260603) | more than 13 years ago | (#127886)

Many people -windows and linux users- refuse to use netscape, mozilla, or galeon because it is not as nice as IE or konq. I try my very best to use it for exactly that reason. For the IE users I tell them that if they don't use mozilla/galeon then there will never be an answer to microsofts monopoly. Many don't agree with the use-inferior-opensource-software(not that galeon is inferior at this point)-just so that it will get better, but i hold to it. If people stop downloading mozilla then AOL has less of a reason to include it in their browser suite. so, sure - use konq but remember that it is only a linux browser, and (likely) always will be. if you want to support opensource then at least download mozilla and watch AOLinux come around and shoot linux into the 20+ million users hands that are MS zombies now. tomorrow they could be Linux zombies!

TT font problem with Galeon? (1)

PRR (261928) | more than 13 years ago | (#127887)

I'm running RH 7.1 (w Gnome) with the M$ TT fonts imported and used with Xfree.

Mozilla displays pages with the TT fonts just fine, but they don't seem to look right with Galeon. It looks as if Galeon is still using the old Adobe fonts and not the M$ TTFs... or simply not doing the TTFs right. (Yes, I've set the preferences correctly, and adjusted the font size spinner... but no luck)

Anyone else having this problem?

Re:Konqueror's HTML rendering: too good to be trut (2)

loopkin (267769) | more than 13 years ago | (#127888)

actually they did reuse code from mozilla:
konqueror has two rendering engine from which u can choose:
-kmozilla well, it's gecko
-khtml, which is QT/KDE development, from scratch, and which is really great indeed :-))
in fact only one thing remain really weak in konqueror: javascript. but i've seen that KDE 2.2 should fix that.

anyway, a reason why konqueror (well u're talking about khtml in fact) is such a great thing compared to mozilla, is that it's only a browser, and it doesn't try to reinvent the wheel for each task. it relies deeply on KDE for many things such as rendering images and so on. and they didn't try to make an abstraction bloatware based on GTK/MFC/whatsoever, in order to have it run under every platform on earth...

Re:Bagh humbug (1)

fatgraham (307614) | more than 13 years ago | (#127889)

despite the efficiency, and much improved structure, i think developers are starting to try and compete. adding "more features!" creates a "better" product.

something which will be more appriciated by the "best" program if the aim of the developer is to be the top desktop product for mr zealot.

Re:Galeon is getting it right... (1)

fatgraham (307614) | more than 13 years ago | (#127890)

which despite the little features IE has is a decent contender imo :]

mozilla is slow and unstable (the package itself it seems) and netscape is too bloaty, and dodgy imo too

Re:Skipstone (1)

orbman (315337) | more than 13 years ago | (#127891)

Skipstone is somewhat similar to Galeon with less features, a bit faster/more responsive, smaller and less dependant on Gnome.

It used to be little more buggy than Galeon but it's several months I haven't used it.

Antialiasing fonts (3)

orbman (315337) | more than 13 years ago | (#127892)

Konqueror is great, and web pages look terrific with anti aliasing is turned on. Galeon / moz can't do it as far as I know (may be with GTK 2?)

If you recompile Mozilla with Xlib or QT backend instead of GTK backend (see ./configure) then Mozilla can do AA fonts.

The AA fonts will be in Mozilla 1.0 even with GTK+-1.2.x - you can have AA fonts in GTK apps but you must use Xrender explicitely. (look at http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/) and search "anti alias" strings.

JFYI - Opera (http://www.opera.com/) can use AA fonts too, when being run under KDE with AA turned on.

Mozilla 0.9.x is getting better everyday, it's getting faster also ... I think we will have a very good browser when M1.0 will be out.

(personally, I like Konq. but the thing with preformatted text, square chars withou line breaks annoys me (I often use bugzilla etc.) ... I've been told by KDE developpers they're fixing this)

Re:Try IE6 (1)

TikkaMassala (411282) | more than 13 years ago | (#127897)

While this isn't technically the best place to troll IE6, your sentiments are true. IE6 is the best browsing effort I've seen out there. Simple, blindingly fast, full of features (which don't slow it down - they're only called upon when needed).

This'll be modded down as a troll, but who cares.

Re:stopped using KDE (2)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 13 years ago | (#127899)

just wait. do you know why IE has such power and maketshare? because AOL uses it. therefore if you want hte 27+ million users of AOL to see your page correctly, then you whrite everything for IE first then mabey Netscape. when Mozilla is ready, and Netscape incorperates it into it's browser(i.e., plasters a "N" in the top right corner)
AOL will be ready to feed Netscape to its costomers and IE will all of a sudden loose its maketshare and .NET will come topling down.

Actually... (1)

Tachys (445363) | more than 13 years ago | (#127900)

I do run debian :)

Skipstone (2)

Tachys (445363) | more than 13 years ago | (#127901)

I have found another GTK+ browser named Skipstone [muhri.net] also based on Gecko.

How not had a chance to use it yet.

Gnome isn't much better (2)

Tachys (445363) | more than 13 years ago | (#127902)

I know KDE is almost a direct copy of windows, but Gnome is too. Gnome doesn't do that as much but it still is a copy of Windows.

Both KDE and Gnome have alot of GUI problems. Is there any mailing-lists, newsgroups to discuss GUI issues for there desktops?

Re:Galeon (1)

0-9a-zA-Y_.+!*'(),-$ (453203) | more than 13 years ago | (#127903)

Just stick these lines in your sblock.ini file for junkbuster:

opera.com
hitcents.com
advertising.com
qkimg.net
qksrv.net
click2net.com

And hey presto - advert free opera.
--

Re:stopped using KDE (2)

m08593 (455349) | more than 13 years ago | (#127904)

So, you develop a standalone web browser similar to Galeon first, allow it to integrate with the existing applications, and then release your own mail, chat, HTML editor, and USENET applications afterwards.

But Mozilla really wanted to be something very different: it wanted to be its own platform, an entire environment programmable in XML, JavaScript, and XUL. It doesn't look like people are flocking to it for that purpose. So, Mozilla really lost everything: it could have kept Microsoft from taking over the browser market, but because it wanted to be so much more, it is so late that it won't even accomplish that.

Is Mozilla competitive with .NET? (2)

m08593 (455349) | more than 13 years ago | (#127905)

I have my doubts that Mozilla is competitive with .NET. .NET will ship with every Windows system, it offers familiar APIs, and a pretty fast runtime. What does Mozilla have? It's mostly built around sluggish JavaScript and XML, with a toolkit nobody uses.

The only alternative to .NET I see is Java, perhaps incorporating Gecko as an HTML rendering component. Java is a full-featured language with an excellent, moderately popular toolkit, lots of widely used APIs, and the JVM runs a wide variety of other languages.

Re:stopped using KDE (3)

m08593 (455349) | more than 13 years ago | (#127906)

If they had, they'd have missed a lot of functionality that needed links into the rendering engine to properly work. Now, Gecko, the main engine, is so flexible it can do anything Mozilla throws at it, as well as just about anything else anyone would want in a browser.

I think you can give the Mozilla developers a little more credit. These people are experienced programmers that have not only done an HTML rendering engine before, but they are also familiar with rich text rendering in a number of toolkits. They don't need to implement a mail reader to know what kinds of hooks a mail reader needs.

stopped using KDE (4)

m08593 (455349) | more than 13 years ago | (#127907)

I was using KDE mainly because of Konqueror: Mozilla and Netscape just didn't cut it. KDE has some other nice features, but I found it to be a pretty heavy-weight and intrusive desktop, and it has a bunch of annoying bugs. (Yes, I know, you can run Konqueror under other desktops, but it still starts up other KDE services in the background, and it doesn't feel entirely happy.)

After using Galeon for a couple of days, I think that it's an excellent browser. It doesn't start up lots of oddball support programs, it just browses the web. It also seems more reliable and render more accurately than Konqueror. So, I can finally switch back to a more lightweight desktop.

I think that if the Mozilla team had concentrated on bringing out this kind of browser, just the browser, they could have been done much earlier and captured so much more market share.

Modularity will always win! (2)

buglord (455997) | more than 13 years ago | (#127908)

What's special and so good about Galeon? It's not faster or more feature-laden than Opera, and nothing can beat Lynx or Links when it comes to speed and size.

The thing is that it's modular! It's just a frontend to Mozilla and GTM. I can use these programs by themselves, if I want to. One could even make a "K"aleon, just to stop all those KDE freaks from bitchin.

Every program should have a small, definied area where it works perfect - that's the whole UNIX paradigm!

I've been using Opera for more than half a year and was greatly impressed how Galeon is going! It even crashes much less. But that's the downside of modularity - you have to rely upon other programs doing their thing well.

Maybe Galeon should always restart with a dialog saying "Sorry I crashed, but it was Mozilla's fault!"

No konqueror (2)

notext (461158) | more than 13 years ago | (#127909)

With konqueror I cannot visit my favorite nudie site, it give me a password error everytime. It only happens with konqueror. This is not a joke

Konqueror sucks... (1)

DeXtroMe (462440) | more than 13 years ago | (#127910)

I'll take anything over K...it's all right for file management, but the rendering is slow and tends to be less than accurate. Anyone know what engine it uses?

Re:Galeon is getting it right... (1)

NeoTomba (462540) | more than 13 years ago | (#127912)

Although it's certainly not the stipped down web browser that Galeon offers, and it's certainly not lacking in uselss features, Opera is sure as hell better than IE and Netscape combined.

Why it doesn't have more than a million and a half users is beyond me.

-NeoTomba

Re:Galeon is getting it right... (1)

NeoTomba (462540) | more than 13 years ago | (#127913)

I think you succeeded in /.ing that poor K-Meleon site.

I hope you're happy... =)

-NeoTomba

Re:Galeon is getting it right... (1)

NeoTomba (462540) | more than 13 years ago | (#127914)

I was specifically talking about being at work, in which case, I should hope your boss doesn't make you pay for your OS, Office software, or anything else essential for your computer.
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