US Air Force Reporting Pilot Shortage 270
An anonymous reader writes "Times sure have changed: it is no longer cool to be a fighter pilot. The Pentagon expects to be short some 200 fighter pilots this year, and is projecting that shortfall will increase to 700 pilots by 2021. Various factors seem to be involved: better paying jobs in the commercial sector with more stability, the stress of repeated overseas deployments, and the threat that ultimately the job they trained to do — fly planes — is being superseded by remotely-controlled drones. With demand for commercial aviators heating up as thousands of pilots are expected to reach mandatory retirement age (65) in the next five years, the Air Force is caught in a quandary. Where are they going to get the pilots to fly their shiny new F-35s?"
Obvious Solution (Score:5, Funny)
Outsource routine missions to the Indian Air Force and grant thousands of H1B visas to fill the rest of the vacancies.
Re:Obvious Solution (Score:4, Insightful)
The Indian Air Force embarrassed the USAF in Cope India 2004 and again at Red Flag in 2008.
The first time was against USAF F-15Cs and the second time, against the F-22.
The real problem for the USAF is that the F-22 and F-35 will always run out of missiles before they run out of targets.
And when that happens, their close combat abilities cannot out-class previous generation fighters.
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When will people understand that the U.S. military loses these mock battle so they can demand more funding? American aircraft were outnumbered 3:1 at Cope Indian. But that allows us to say, "Oh, noes, we lost to Indians. We need $100 billion in new planes." From an article [freerepublic.com]: "The Cope India exercise also seemingly shocked some in Congress and the Pentagon who used the event to renew the call for modernizing the U.S. fighter force with stealthy F/A-22s and F-35 Joint Strike Fighters."
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True, however as pointed out above, the real issue isn't the aircraft but the missile bay size coupled with severe issues with AIM-120C adapted for F-22 (it essentially had its wings clipped to fit into the internal bay).
The missile has already been known to have severe issues with maneuverability when fired at meidum-to-long range, which is main engagement range for stealth F-22 due to issues with how thrust is generated. It will not have enough onboard fuel to generate new acceleration run if target evade
Re:Obvious Solution (Score:4, Interesting)
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Good.
Because of chair force fighter jocks, our air services are divided into 4 separate competing groups for no other reason than they can't think any other combat theater is more important.
The air force has tried to retire the A-10 warthog for 35 years now. instead of having a proper ground support craft that can take all sorts of punishment(the A-10 can fly missing significant chunks of vital parts) they keep trying to put more and more advanced craft there, but none of them can take or dish out the puni
The more likely reason (Score:5, Insightful)
People don't want to sign up for the armed services knowing that they're just going to be shipped off immediately to one of these middle-eastern hell holes to fight some undeclared war over some bullshit "terror" campaign to "keep us safe" from that big, evil Constitution that is making government's job so difficult.
Re:The more likely reason (Score:5, Insightful)
That's been going on a very long time and hasn't stopped potential aircrew. The perception they won't get a slot for their effort IS a deterrent.
What does piss off pilots and ruin RETENTION (which creates shortages) is their "extra duties" and square-filling they are tasked with when not flying. If the Air Force wanted to retain pilots it would reduce the bullshit they have to put up with. It's not as if pilots aren't vocal about it. Many would be delighted with a full career "flying track" even if they weren't promoted as quickly. With command comes a desk, and that desk never empties.
Pilots do not live in "hellhole" conditions, and neither to most Airmen when deployed.
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There is the fact that civilian pay for airline pilots is so low. In fact, officer pay (all pilots are O rank) is usually higher than what one can find in the civilian industry.
A lot of people don't want to be pilots just because there is no future in that field unless one wants to buy their own plane and run their own charter service (good luck.)
Almost any other profession, the amount of hours one has to log would get them a journeyman or master rank. A commercial airline captain? $40k/year. To boot, t
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There is the fact that civilian pay for airline pilots is so low. In fact, officer pay (all pilots are O rank) is usually higher than what one can find in the civilian industry.
A lot of people don't want to be pilots just because there is no future in that field unless one wants to buy their own plane and run their own charter service (good luck.)
Almost any other profession, the amount of hours one has to log would get them a journeyman or master rank. A commercial airline captain? $40k/year. To boot, the allowances for hotels and such have been pared to the bone... airline crews end up sleeping in bunks/dorms.
Make the pay worth it, then people will consider that route.
Get your facts straight. A captain in a major airline makes much closer to 6 figures a year than 40k. And most are former military meaning they draw military benefits as well. 40k a year is what a pilot might make if they go through civilian flight school and have just gotten hired on as a mainline pilot (and they would not be a Captain, they would be an FO) after a few years as a pilot with a subsidiary carrier such as Expressjet or SkyWest. While working for one of those smaller carriers, yes, they wi
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Perhaps this is just sensational journalism, but there are situations like this found with regional pilots (not major airlines):
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/video/inside-airline-pilot-crash-pads-12874917 [go.com]
http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2012/02/01/confessions-regional-jet-pilot/ [foxnews.com]
Admittedly this is for people who are trying to break into the industry and become established as opposed to those who are at the top of their game working for the major airliners, but if you want to become a pilot today and go through
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I would think one of the biggest factors is the increased reliance on unmanned aircraft. If you become a pilot today, say in your early 20s, there is no way you are going to hold on to that career until retirement, be it commercial or military. Right now, sure, we still need pilots. In 10 years you will be a dinosaur. In 20 you will be completely obsolete.
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A handful of years ago, my younger brother was considering enlisting to become a pilot. He's always had a knack for driving machines (tractors, large trucks, planes, etc) so I knew he would be successful.
One day he talked to a retired pilot and it was suggested that instead of enlisting he should get his private license and do whatever he can to log the hours he would need. Once he was ready he could enlist and be that far ahead of the game.
I suppose this path is somewhat common with young aspiring pilots
Re:The more likely reason (Score:5, Interesting)
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This, plus the 'up or out' system. They've both been known problems for decades.
But any solution to these leads to it's own potential problem - pilots do not like being commanded by non-pilots. (And arguably should not be.) And you do need experienced pi
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"maintenance support,"
HAHAHAHA! My sides!
I was a maintainer (avionics, engines, later crew chief) for 26 years (1981-2007 on Broncos, Phantoms, F-16 A/B/C/D/CJ) and experienced highly effective non-flying DCMs (Deputy Commanders for Maintenance), the attempts to do away with them, and the return of powerful Maintenance Squadron commanders.
Running Maintenance in no way requires being a pilot and in many ways is better done by one not of a "pilot" psychology. It has everything to do with holding sufficient r
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"People don't want to sign up for the armed services knowing that they're just going to be shipped off immediately to one of these middle-eastern hell holes to fight some undeclared war over some bullshit "terror" campaign to "keep us safe" from that big, evil Constitution that is making government's job so difficult."
Corollary: maybe we should make Wall Street and Washington bigwigs be the pilots, since they are the ones who have benefited from all this.
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Believe me, that may be a problem with the Army but never with the chAir Force.
No, their problem is a ridiculous "up or out" policy in the officer corps where if you can't get promoted to a higher rank within a certain length of time, you get shitcanned. Since they only let officers fly planes, they now have a pilot shortage as too many of them are now either gone or at too high a rank to actually do the whole flying thing.
PIlots don't make much (Score:5, Informative)
Pilots have always left the air force for private jobs. I think the issue is likely that fewer are signing up to replace them, because the news is out that pilots don't make much money.
If you pay commercial pilots more, then more pilots will join the air force for 5-10 years in order to become commercial pilots later.
Sure, we're likely to see many pilots retire at 65 and all that, but with all the industry consolidation the fact is that new pilots can't make money. There are tons of people with experience flying airliners who can't get jobs flying airliners.
Re:PIlots don't make much (Score:4, Informative)
Pilots have always left the air force for private jobs. I think the issue is likely that fewer are signing up to replace them, because the news is out that pilots don't make much money.
If you pay commercial pilots more, then more pilots will join the air force for 5-10 years in order to become commercial pilots later.
Sure, we're likely to see many pilots retire at 65 and all that, but with all the industry consolidation the fact is that new pilots can't make money. There are tons of people with experience flying airliners who can't get jobs flying airliners.
This is true. It doesn't take long to realize that decent pay only exists for pilots who work for a large carrier. I was surprised to learn that regional air carrier pilots could earn as little as $25K/year. I assume that pilots have to keep up certification and pay for certification to upgrade their skills (i.e., learn to fly larger planes). Heck 25K barely feeds you and your family.
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With that kind of civilian pay, you're better off staying in the Air Force.
Re:PIlots don't make much (Score:5, Interesting)
nobody flies fighter jets in the Air Force and then goes on to fly for regional carriers for $25k a year. Those regional carrier jobs are filled by entry level pilots that graduated Bob's Flying School who are looking to build up their flight hours and beef up their resume in hopes of eventually flying for the majors.
Air Force pilots leaving the military are in high demand at the majors as they have thousands of hours in jets and typically have exceptional flying skills compared to Bob's Flying School graduates.
Re:PIlots don't make much (Score:5, Insightful)
nobody flies fighter jets in the Air Force and then goes on to fly for regional carriers for $25k a year.
Flying an F-16 is not very good preparation for flying a 737. What the airlines really want is C-17 or C-130 pilots, with plenty of multi-engine experience.
Re:PIlots don't make much (Score:5, Funny)
What I want is a 737 pilot who thinks they are still in an F-16.
Whoo hooo!
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Flying an F-16 is not very good preparation for flying a 737.
Nor a 787 - there's a big difference between being fired "on" and fired "in" ... :-)
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"This is true. It doesn't take long to realize that decent pay only exists for pilots who work for a large carrier"
you must be thinking of the Navy and Marines - the airforce doesn't have any carriers .
Time for TOP GUN 2 (Score:5, Insightful)
TOP GUN made a lot of people sign up for the navy
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you can't enlist and be a pilot
for a pilot you have to be an officer which means college first, more specifically the naval or air force academy which only take the top 5% or so. and you have to get a nomination from your congressperson. its like a 2 year process to apply in high school
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Top 5% of what?
I highly doubt the top 5% of any group apply to such academies. I am not disparaging their applicants, merely observing that these are not high paying positions most people know about or seek out.
Needing nomination from a congress person again makes me doubt this top 5% thing. It sounds more like a way to keep these high prestige jobs for their friends and family.
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nope, to get into west point or one of the other academies you have to be in the top 5% or so of your HS class. lots of these people are one of the top 2 people of the class. i've known west pointers in the army and they told me what it takes to get in. someone i work with, her son made it in but ended up going to NYU.
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I just figured no one with another opportunity would bother. Even going into the military there are better paying fields to deal with. That made me assume most just would not bother.
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It certainly was the smart kids in my high school. My high school wasn't the greatest, but we had an Ivy Leaguer or two in the class. The academies have some soft majors, but mostly it is sciences - everyone gets a B.S., not a B.A.
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We all get BS. And plenty of it. Doesn't take being in the top of your class....
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So did the Village People... The Navy and the YMCA.
Drones (Score:5, Informative)
Who wants to be a pilot and put your butt on the line every day as you enter enemy territory when you can be a drone pilot half way across the world and go home to your wife and kids every night.
Besides, it's looking more and more like "fighter pilot" is a dead end job and won't be around forever. Why send one fighter when you can send 10 drones that can outmaneuver any manned plane for the less cost and no risk to pilots life.
Re:Not pilots , assassins. (Score:4, Insightful)
There is a difference
.
When you kill with physical presence, your enemies can try to kill you.
When you kill remotely, your enemies only possible retaliation is exploding bombs on your territory, because you are not the battle field anymore
Drone killing and terrorist bombing are two sides of the mirror
Drones (Score:2)
The movement to unmanned planes isn't helping their case any either. There aren't as many fighter wars expected to be left - so why join up for a position that may be phased out in just a few years. The Navy might have better luck recruiting, but the Air Force is in a harder spot unless a major land war with a well equipped adversary materializes that lasts enough to bring the Air Force to bear.
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I think you are partially correct... This is certainly a ploy to get more budget, only it's not for drones, it's for attracting and keeping pilots... No Really, pilots.
Drones are not THE answer for the conflicts that the Air Force faces. Drones (and fighters for that matter) are but a fraction of the Air Force's budget. They are really saying what they need.. Money to train and retain pilots..
Well, slashdot is a great place to start (Score:5, Funny)
We're in incredible physical condition, none of us have near-sightedness, or color blindness. We love the military in particular and the government in general. And combat and sports are what we excel at!
You've definitely found the recruitment pool you're looking for!
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Um... this is "tech.slashdot", not Ask Slashdot.
Which means that the answers being provided here have SOME hope of being appropriate and on-topic. That's probably a plus.
pfft (Score:4, Insightful)
....the Air Force is caught in a quandary. Where are they going to get the pilots to fly their shiny new F-35s?"
And here i thought their quandary was wondering: if, when, and for how many trillions of dollars it was going to be for the F-35 to be anything more than a theft of taxpayer money by the MIC.
IMO an indirect effect (Score:4, Informative)
I was in AFROTC 20 years ago. It was known for a long time that the "battle boom" of pilots from Vietnam who went to the air lines was drying up, and when those numbers fell, there'd be a suction of active duty pilots lured into the civilian sector to fill in the need. There's always going to be a line of kids trying to fly fighters. This is more a Pin vs Pout issue. Couple that with a smaller Air Force of gourmet fighters and drones and now the civilian sector is going to have to get used to finding/creating other pools of pilots with 1000s of hours in hand.
Aviators (Score:3, Funny)
They can hire some Naval Aviators. They're better than pilots.
Problem not lack of interest (Score:2)
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I'll gladly do it (Score:2)
I'll gladly do it... they'll have to overlook the fact I am in my early 30's and don't have 20/20 vision. If they did, I'd sign up immediately.
Re:I'll gladly do it (Score:5, Interesting)
do like airlines, GO CHEAP (Score:5, Insightful)
at this point to be a pilot you have to be in the top 5% of your HS class, go to the air force academy, go to flight school and then train on your aircraft
where to be an airline pilot all you need is to go to flight school and pass a test
this isn't the 70's and 80's. if you're in the top 5% of your HS class you can make a lot more money in medicine, banking, law and lots of other careers
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where to be an airline pilot all you need is to go to flight school and pass a test
Oh god nooooooooooo. I can just see (to reuse a comment from above) ads for Bob's Flying school:
"We now teach Air Combat!!!!! Come and train on our latests planes .. Migs, Phantoms and Mirages.
Are you ready to be Top Gun?"
Can't see there being a shortage of fighter pilots (Score:5, Insightful)
Too little time in the air (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't know if that's as true as in Europe, but the biggest complain I've heard by far from would-be pilots as well as pilots is that they don't fly enough. A flight is so costly that they don't fly more than a few times a month.
What's rather funny though is that in Europe the situation is reverted, there are far more people that want to become a pilot, fighter or commercial, than jobs available. A lot of airlines have totally frozen hiring for a few years.
I'd love to (Score:2)
...but I can't. Have a family, which doesn't work all that well with active duty deployments. Have TERRIBLE vision and have had corrective lenses since age 4, also a non-starter. On top of that I'm 35...I couldn't get recruited for any of the armed services regardless of physical condition. In addition, the penchant of the current (and several prior) administration to engage other militaries and paramilitaries on a global scale, with no declaration of war (aside from a nebulous and ever-changing "terror" ta
Hmmm ... (Score:2)
They'll just turn the F-35 into a UAV then.
Or, since I'm skeptical the F-35 will ever fly because it was a badly conceived project from the get go (you know, make everyone sign on for and pay for your R&D costs on a plane whose feature lists reads like a demand for a pony) ... you may never have to worry about F-35 pilots at all.
I think a lot of governments are starting to decide they may have been hoodwinked with this F-35 program, and
Amazing! (Score:5, Interesting)
Opposite of previous article (Score:3)
This seems to be the opposite story of the previous slashdot article from 2 week ago, The Air Force's Love For Fighter Pilots Is Too Big To Fail [slashdot.org]
Drones it is then (Score:2)
Clearly the only thing left to do is contract out several hundred billion dollars to privatized military manufacturers to offshore the immediate production in China of military drones which can be flown by congressmen and Top Brass during their lunch hours.
Well, use drones. (Score:2)
The F-35 is not the problem (Score:5, Informative)
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Great! (Score:4, Insightful)
Great, now the military is going to want to increase H1B Visas for their shortage, too.
Robot Overlords (Score:2)
bad idea (Score:2)
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3. cant have eye surgery
This is no longer true. Aviators can have surgery, but they just need a Flight Surgeon waiver. Nowadays, that'll probably be pretty easy, especially considering the shortage.
Air Force Tradition (Score:2)
Part of the problem stem from the first commandant/general of the Air Force who required all of the pilots to be college graduates. This is dumb. Israel does not require this, and I bet their pilots can whip our butts. Additionally, why do piolots have to be officers? From what I read most pilots want to fly; they don't want to lead. If they must be officers of some kind, make them warrant officers.
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I know where to get them (Score:2)
I hear Sum Ting Wong is looking for a new job. :)
2006 RAND study recommending fewer fighter pilots (Score:5, Interesting)
"Fighter Drawdown Dynamics: Effects on Aircrew Inventories" [defencetalk.com] - a 2009 study from RAND, says "to maintain the health of fighter units, the number of new pilots entering them must be reduced, ultimately to below 200 per year by 2016." Fighter pilots are high-maintenance - they have to fly frequently to stay good. Having too many fighter pilots for the number of available aircraft results in a big pool of mediocre pilots.
The USAF seems to be having trouble balancing their personnel pipeline.
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It's hard throughout the armed services, because it's a dynamic problem and often the controlling factors are outside the control of the planners. There's also a delay effect more-or-less proportional to the length of the pipeline.
Shortfall based on what number? (Score:2)
Every US Government agency reports personnel shortfalls across all fields in every branch of the organization. This despite the fact that we are experiencing ever higher levels of government spending, particularly in the DoD. I gaurantee that they are already experiencing shortfalls in secretaries. Is it because there are not enough qualified individuals to perform secretary jobs or because people with the right experience hate the idea of working for the Federal Government where they would get excellent be
Well duh... (Score:2)
There can't be THAT many evangelicals with the skills to fly.
Where are they going to get the pilots... (Score:2)
It doesn't matter. Congress and their military-industrial campaign donors will make sure the F-35s get built regardless of the availability of pilots.
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I guess that was a problem with the almighty F-22.
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Maybe if they could make a F-35 that absolutely positively won't asphyxiate you they would get more interest from pilots?
Maybe they could add some normal flight instruments so I could fly it with my PPL!
Re:Maybe fix them? (Score:5, Funny)
I've heard the Air Force make this complaint before: No pilots, mission endangered...
My! How they do drone on.
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Vice President Cheney, Meet the Press, September 16, 2001: "[Interviewer: Do we have any evidence linking Saddam Hussein or Iraqis to [the 9/11 terrorist attacks?]] Cheney: No "
President Bush, White House briefing, September 17, 2003: "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th."
Saddam was involved with terrorism, but not with the 9/11 attack.
Re:Maybe fix them? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe the USAF can import foreigners on H1-B visas to train as pilots. I mean if these people are the best and brightest why wouldn't the USAF want them too?
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They would need a security clearance?
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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Or video game experts. Perhaps named Ender.
Re:Good god. Air force Obsolete. (Score:5, Informative)
"Gone are the days of fighting cables and air pressure. It's all computers. "
I've been in the back seat of an F-16 D-model (I was a crew chief and we got rides when there was no one scheduled to go up for other purposes). The G-forces are considerable and you certainly do "fight" them (straining maneuvers etc). Flying any modern fighter takes considerable physical endurance.
A "belly" doesn't indicate lack of resistance to G's.
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Ever notice that in order to be a fixed-wing-aircraft pilot in any service, you must be an officer? That requires a college education. It doesn't mean you're smarter, but it may imply that you're more dedicated to learning what you need to know to do the job you're required to do.
Re:F35 and F22 (Score:4, Funny)
Overpriced death-trap it may be, but the F-22 is an elegant tool designed to do a single thing well: wrest control of European airspace from the Soviet Union.
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Well, we won haven''t we?
Seen any tigers recently?
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Yes, along with the rest of the US troops over at Rammstein, our brave boys stand ready to defend West Germany from the USSR!
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Now the A-10 is a plane that should never have be retired. It WAS the primary defense against a Soviet Invasion of western Europe
The A-10 is still in service, and won't be retired until 2028 at the very least. I predict it will be the C-130 of fighter/attack craft, just like the C-130 is the Energizer of cargo planes. Just keeps going and going and going...
Re:F35 and F22 (Score:4, Interesting)
Bring the warthog, the only useful plane in the US Air Force's inventory in the last 30 years.
The A10 is a great plane, and it would be wonderful if there were other aircraft to fill the niche. However, it does need support to operate. You're not going to be having a great time shooting up tanks if the sky is crawling with enemy air-superiority fighters who have free reign to drop missiles on you all day long. You can duck behind hills from SAM sites, but not when the SAM site is at 37,000 feet.
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Re: F35 and F22 (Score:2, Interesting)
Of 22 yo kids CARE ABOUT that stuff?
Truth is that for decades flying has been packed with incumbents not moving out. In 2002 if you went to a recruiter and wanted to fly you'd be laughed at... The best enlisted folks would ever get is cargo planes anyway. To fly fighters, you have to be an officer...it's not like the old days where just anybody could try out. And who is going to Military Academy (Annapolis, West Point, Colorado Springs) for a dead-end airline career?
Not to mention the physical attributes
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from: www.ehow.com/about_5063412_air-force-fighter-pilot-qualifications.html#ixzz2ZoGZ1tSj
"To enter pilot training, you must be have a standing height between 64 to 77 inches"
that's 5'4 to 6'5 for the mathematically challenged
US Air Force Academy has exactly the same guidelines so I'd say they are accurate.
http://www.usafa.net/mirrored/appenda.htm [usafa.net]
I'm sure the vision requirements knock out far more pilot candidates than their height restrictions
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Sure... Getting shot at by all manner of ground, sea and air based weapons while flying very close to other aircraft and the ground is what fighter pilots do. All of this is dangerous.
Fighter pilot business is dangerous and many pilots die. But does that make the aircraft they fly bad? I don't think so. Have some aircraft proved to be more difficult to fly than others? Yes, but usually the Air Force is able to alter their tactics and procedures to mitigate any issues. They train better to avoid dying bec
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Today I see kids that have great spatial ability, score way above what they need on the test, and have good process skills. These kids want to be in the military, they are not looking to make $100K a year. They want the government to take care of them
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If the reason that you don't have enough pilots is that there are "better paying jobs in the commercial sector with more stability", then start paying the pilots more! Isn't that how capitalism works? You can't expect intelligent people to take an inferior job simply out of patriotism.
Instead they'll probably waste millions of dollars on advertising campaigns, sigh.
Or it could be all of those new planes the pentagon said they didn't need but congress made them purchase anyway. Maybe congress's intention to appease the defense contractors is the cause of the shortage.
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Cheap? You called an F-35 cheap?
Who are you really - Daddy Warbucks?
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That's right the pilot's salary is probably the cheapest thing in the plane.
FTFY. It's the initial training investment, and continual air time to keep them sharp, that make the pilot more valuable than the plane, and harder to replace.
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Where do I sign.
Right there on the dotted line. Can't see it? Clean your glasses off. Still can't see? Hold the contract right up to your nose.