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LibreOffice 4.1 Released

samzenpus posted 1 year,6 days | from the check-it-out dept.

Businesses 157

An anonymous reader writes "The latest major release of the LibreOffice office suite has just been published, including an experimental improved sidebar based on the work of Apache OpenOffice, embedded fonts, better Microsoft Office compatibility (improving their exclusive capability in the free software world of not only being able to read but also write .docx and .xlsx files) and many further Improvements."

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LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383315)

LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice should just merge in to one open source office suite.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (4, Insightful)

MetalliQaZ (539913) | 1 year,6 days | (#44383355)

LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice should just merge in to one open source office suite.

Based on the history of the creation of the LibreOffice project, I think that would never happen.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383719)

Based on the history of opensource forking is a one way path!

Isn't it great that we have 300 different Linux distros? I bet that's why it was so successful with desktop consumers (in confusing them I mean).

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383831)

It's not, see egcs/gcc. Get your history right, troll.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (3, Insightful)

SteveFoerster (136027) | 1 year,6 days | (#44383963)

Isn't it great that we have 300 different Linux distros? I bet that's why it was so successful with desktop consumers (in confusing them I mean).

Yes, it is great that we have so many choices. The problem getting Linux onto most users' desktops hasn't been that there are so many options. Usually when it comes to "Linux on the Desktop!!!!" there's only been one main distro getting buzz at a time, most recently Ubuntu but going back at least as far as Caldera back in the late '90s. So I don't think brand confusion is the issue here.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (0, Troll)

PRMan (959735) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384337)

In my experience, the problem isn't getting Linux onto the desktop. It's keeping it there after an update crashes everything and the user says, "Screw that, I'm going back to Windows because it works."

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (1, Offtopic)

SteveFoerster (136027) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384463)

I don't know if it's "crashes everything" more often, or if it's usually just silly QA things where things are just not seamless, and malfunction in an inconvenient way that gets in the way of productivity. But broadly speaking I have to agree with you, and I say that as someone who's used Linux on the desktop for several years and no interest whatsoever in switching back to Windows.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (2, Funny)

marcello_dl (667940) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384721)

> It's keeping it there after an update crashes everything and the user says, "Screw that, I'm going back to Windows because it works."

Said no debian user ever.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384865)

I'm a linux fan but I've had both Debian and Ubuntu go full retard on various occasions.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (1)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | 1 year,6 days | (#44386237)

> It's keeping it there after an update crashes everything and the user says, "Screw that, I'm going back to Windows because it works."

Going back to Windows because IT works?

Excuse me. My jaw just hit the floor. I've got to go find a shovel and retrieve it.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (2)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384901)

odd in my experience it is windows updates that break stuff. I haven't had a linux update break anything yet.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44385771)

Riiiight.

I've operated and admined thousands of Windows based PCs and I have never once seen a system update that broke anything. Likewise, I've never seen a Linux update break anything...worse than it was already broken. Unless you specifically custom build a PC with parts for Linux, there will almost certainly be something that doesn't work correctly. That doesn't happen under Windows; everything just works.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (2, Interesting)

jimicus (737525) | 1 year,6 days | (#44385395)

Linux on the desktop has a whole heap of problems. Updates are one of them (particularly when your OS has an average life expectancy of 6-12 months), but there's no shortage of others.

Off the top of my head:

  - An easy way to install drivers for peripherals. If your printer/scanner/MFC isn't supported out of the box, it's potluck if the manufacturer has produced anything. If they have, then it's potluck how well it works. Compare and contrast with Windows, which has Windows update and besides, nobody is about to produce hardware without Windows drivers.
      - Yes, I know you can hold peripheral manufacturers responsible for a lot of that. Guess what? That cuts precisely zero ice with Aunt Tillie.
  - An approach to desktop experience that is religion-driven rather than results-driven. Part of that is because of patent law (cf. Fraunhofer's MP3 patents), part of it is because of some sort of insane desire to re-invent the wheel every few years (precisely how many sound subsystems has Linux had over the years?).
  - A blind spot to anything that doesn't work very well. Anyone who's tried to do anything beyond a very vanilla setup knows all about this.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (2)

blackest_k (761565) | 1 year,6 days | (#44385875)

You make it sound as if there is just one version of windows and the fact is driver support for peripherals can be problematic.

As an example I have a mint condition card reader from pny which does compact flash and smart media and a printer with card slots that can't handle anything over 128 meg so I plugs it into my linux box and find only the cf side is recognised no problem thinks me i'll just use it with windows instead no biggie was I wrong the only drivers are for 98se not xp, not 2000, vista, windows 7, or 8.

That may be an extreme example and the problem solved by linux being able to mount the card via mass storage device using the printer as a mass storage device.

However whilst on the subject of printers you may also run in to issues of limited functionality in later versions of windows, manufacturers tend to target a particular windows version and while my old ink jet will work in windows 7 with an inbuilt windows 7 driver, border-less printing is only available in XP. meanwhile in linux hplip got an update last week.

Theres also downgrading issues too or are you too young to be familiar with the problems of buying a laptop with Vista and trying to install XP.

Clearly not everything is supported in Linux but also equally clear Windows is a range of operating systems with varying levels of support for particular hardware. Incidentally you may have missed the fact libre office is available on Windows too.
     

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (1)

jimicus (737525) | 1 year,6 days | (#44385963)

Possibly.

But we live in a world where hardware is so cheap it's considered disposable. If the printer no longer works (for whatever reason; you'd be amazed how many people don't even understand the idea that there's nothing wrong with the damn printer; it's the manufacturer's own commercial decision) then a new one is on the cards.

When the new one may or may not work - and linuxprinting.org recommends a list of printers where the most recent one was discontinued in 2011 - then you have a problem. A hardware compatibility list is no damn good if all it lists is hardware that hasn't been seen in the wild in five or ten years.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44386533)

that used to be true, but since Windows 7, it is very much "pot luck" if you are going to get the proper driver support ON WINDOWS for a lot of hardware, now ...and it is getting worse with 8

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44385433)

Amusingly, that happening in Windows is what's sent several people to Linux in my experience. All systems can fail during an update. Just ask NASA.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (0, Troll)

hairyfeet (841228) | 1 year,6 days | (#44385669)

I'll get hate but screw it, the reason linux goes nowhere is the same reason you name the distro and it won't pass the "Hairyfeet Challenge" which is already tilted badly in Linux' favor, and that is Linus Torvalds gives more care about religious dogma than designing an OS that works and since the vast majority of the public are NOT what I call "FOSSies" and do not give a rat turd about GPL purity Linux goes nowhere. I mean for God's sake guys, there is several orders of magnitude more people willing to risk tens of thousands in fines and possible jail time to steal the other guy's product than take yours for free, doesn't that set off a lightbulb above your head?

The simple fact of the matter is that NOBODY uses Torvalds fucked up "Let the devs do it" driver model, not even the other free as in freedom OSes like BSD and Solaris and the reason why is it DOES NOT WORK, hell you can use basic math to show why it'll never work, ready? You have MAYBE 400 guys working with Torvalds and qualified to write and debug low level systems drivers, following so far? Now add in the fact that there is probably a good 10,000 new devices coming out per quarter MINIMUM and a good 100,000+ drivers that are ALREADY in the tree....see the problem yet? if you mainlined those devs on Bolivian Marching Powder so they NEVER slept and ONLY worked on drivers you'd have each driver getting around 20 minutes worth of time every 3 years or so, which is why you end up with drivers like these [osnews.com] that were half assed and piss poor to begin with, only having half the hardware functional, and are poorly supported on top of that.

But what do we get when we point this out, and what I'm sure to hear here? We don't need no steekin ABI [tmrepository.com] and then you expect, with a straight face and without a trace of irony, for Joe and jane Average to do forum hunts, google for fixes, and be able to tweak piles of CLI crapola because thanks to Torvalds fucked up way of dealing with drivers, which worked in 93 when you had a couple of hundred drivers but just can't scale to the number we have today, leaves even Eric Raymond unable to get a printer to work [catb.org] over the network, a feature that the other guy has been doing since WinXP in 01 trivially. In fact the ONLY response you can show from the kernel devs is a RELIGIOUS argument, in fact the dev even wrote "and I hope we break none free drivers often!" which if that doesn't show you its about the GPL religion over having a functional OS then I don't know what will.

At the end of the day you have to be either the most arrogant prick on the planet or fucking deluded to look and see that EVERY SINGLE OTHER OS does it one way, BSD, Solaris, Windows, OSX, iOS, fuck even OS/2 and your "dear leader" goes for the exact opposite approach, one that NOBODY other than him uses, and then to believe he is actually right and they are wrong, that he is fucking smarter than ALL those OS devs put together? I'm sorry but that is bullshit and ironically the community knows it too even if they won't say it out loud. after all what does everybody on the forums tell you to buy from graphics? Nvidia a NON FREE DRIVER because what do you know, the driver actually WORKS. sadly Nvidia is the only company it seems willing to blow that much money supporting Linux, the rest aren't gonna pay an entire dev team to fix what Torvalds and Co. break and Joe and jane sure as fuck ain't gonna put with updates shitting all over drivers and forum hunts for fixes.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44385813)

Linus Torvalds maintains only the kernel (AKA Linux). He doesn't do any work for any of the Linux based operating systems.

The driver problem exists because the people who work on Linux distros are cheap. If they simply paid the hardware makers to produce drivers, then stuff would work as they should instead of being a half-assed, broken mess.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (1)

jbolden (176878) | 1 year,6 days | (#44386417)

Hairy --

Embedded requires drivers Linux is a huge player
Server requires drivers Linux is a huge player
Android requires drivers Linux is the kernel
Tizen will require drivers and Linux is the kernel of that too

So obviously the model does work. It doesn't work well for low end Windows hardware. The Linux community, including Linus has mostly given up on that community. Linux failed at its original goal of a desktop replacement for Windows and was hugely successful at a dozen others. The kernel group is not going to damager the more important products like server and embedded to do better running on $300 machines. They just don't care that much.

As for iOS it most certainly does use the Linux model as does OSX. And heck yeah a GPLed operating system does not want closed source components becoming crucial. If you disagree with the GPL, here is Microsoft's business card.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (3, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | 1 year,6 days | (#44386433)

Linus Torvalds gives more care about religious dogma than designing an OS that works

Not only is this ridiculous hyperbole, it's hyperbole that isn't even remotely true.

since the vast majority of the public are NOT what I call "FOSSies" and do not give a rat turd about GPL purity Linux goes nowhere.

Actually, it's why the silly FSF-approved distros will go nowhere.

not even the other free as in freedom OSes like BSD and Solaris

Coincidentally, the BSD kernels have moved nowhere near as fast. And solaris is not "Free as in Freedom," Oracle cut it off so at best you have the kernel from Solaris 10 - an OS that was closed source for ages.

You have MAYBE 400 guys working with Torvalds and qualified to write and debug low level systems drivers, following so far?

Not when you're blatantly pulling bullshit numbers out of your ass.

Now add in the fact that there is probably a good 10,000 new devices coming out per quarter MINIMUM and a good 100,000+ drivers that are ALREADY in the tree....see the problem yet?

10000? I doubt that. But the difference is that they know that they have to support Windows, so they write Windows drivers (it's the advantage being a monopoly gets you.) Of course, the drivers in the tree don't need -constant- maintenance. And virtually every one of them who is qualified as an owner, most of which are employed by the company that produced the device.

But what do we get when we point this out, and what I'm sure to hear here? We don't need no steekin ABI and then you expect

Well:

- You link to "tmrepository," a site pretty much the geek equivalent of Stormfront, just about as twisted in upon itself, irrational, ignorant and hateful.

- The stable ABI argument is nonsense because you then bind yourself to whatever the closed source vendors are using. You are hamstrung for the sake of a bunch of driver writers who refuse to cooperate for no good reason and you don't dare fix it for fear of breaking some proprietary driver the vendor hasn't updated in years.

> The primary reason it's bullshit is because if you're so insistent on being proprietary, you target a specific distro's kernel, say, RHEL 6.3 or Ubuntu 12.04. Upstream is an entirely different beast, but given your ignorance I would assume you know nothing other than what the hate-filled people at "tmrepository" have cherry picked to mock.

> Conversely, what you're saying is that the Linux team shouldn't do it their way, they should do it a different way. One that gives 100% of the benefit to proprietary vendors and zero benefit to vendors that actually cooperate and upstream their drivers.

- You're in over your head in making this argument and resort to CAPS, name calling, and constant vulgarity while completely failing to present anything resembling a convincing argument.

Nvidia is the only company it seems willing to blow that much money supporting Linux

Yeah, they're the only company pushing a binary driver that actually puts money into supporting Linux. It's not like driver development is free, it costs money to support Windows too. Interestingly, Nvidia also has lots of customers on Linux, so unsurprisingly they invest in the drivers and make sure it works.

Whereas with my employer, we work and push directly to the kernel, in addition to supporting the specific kernels of select distributions. Net result is that the driver is better than it was before we released it - not that there was anything special about it before. I suspect the same is true for most drivers.

But here we are again, another unsupported, empty, emotional spew from hairyfeet about things he doesn't actually understand.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (1)

timeOday (582209) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384125)

Isn't it great that we have 300 different Linux distros? I bet that's why it was so successful with desktop consumers (in confusing them I mean).

Look at it this way, Windows was already entrenched on the desktop by the time Linux came along (and especially by the time it was reasonably mature).

Contrast that with smartphones, where Linux has been a massive success.

So, maybe forking wasn't the dominant issue in the first place.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383871)

That's the joke (tm).

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384083)

We can merge them and call it Mega Office!

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384873)

Pfff

How about this: Uberoffice

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | 1 year,6 days | (#44385053)

That is better, given the German origins.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (1)

krammit (540755) | 1 year,6 days | (#44385269)

UbreOffice.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (4, Informative)

hairyfeet (841228) | 1 year,6 days | (#44385357)

Uhhh...the creation of Libre Office came about because Oracle was being their usual dickish selves, I doubt you are gonna see that same attitude anywhere in the Apache foundation so that isn't the problem. The problem is that Apache is more of a BSD license and Libre is GPL, no point in starting up THAT old flamewar so lets just say they agree to disagree and move on.

Now that said I think we should all give the Libre Office team another year and a half before we even start judging their work, because frankly Sun left that code in pretty damned bad shape and when you are talking about a project THAT size? Well its gonna take a good while just to clean out the cruft and straighten out the messes. Considering the short amount of time they have had it its already getting better, its just a shame the LO guys can share improvements with the Apache guys but due to license incompatibilities I just don't see that happening.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383399)

LibreOffice already does this pretty much every release!

The licensing for the two allows LO to take any of Apache's changes that they'd like (and they frequently do!), whereas the reverse would require Apache to change the OpenOffice licensing.

Honestly though, as long as they both support the same file format, having two separate suites isn't a bad thing.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383601)

the new Apache Office 4 is the best, feels like the good old office without those strange ribbon "innovarions"

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383747)

So LO is the Canonical of office suite software?

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383929)

Except that just about all the Linux distros contribute developers to LibreOffice, and most volunteers contribute there too...

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384291)

I thought this model was the whole point of open source software. What's with all the whining and bickering?

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (1)

MightyYar (622222) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384765)

Because they are people? People are whiny and like to get their own way. Open source is not a genetic engineering exercise.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384905)

Was OP whining, or making a point against a common criticism leveled at open source projects that do exactly the same thing LO does?

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44386033)

This is a great example of why GPL will always be better than BSD-style for open source products.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383593)

I'll take Apache OpenOffice's slow, stable approach to releases over LibreOffice's any day. I certainly wouldn't want to see them merge.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384587)

Fucking Oracle Shill. Go suck Ellison's cock.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384837)

Fucking Oracle Shill. Go suck Ellison's cock.

Why? He's already got your mother to do that for him.

Re: LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice merge (1)

robmv (855035) | 1 year,6 days | (#44386141)

I prefer LibreOffice approach, release 4.1, and maintain with real critical fixes the 4.0 branch. On the 3.x cycle they always recommended to use the previous stable release, for example 3.4.3 when 3.5.0 was released, when they reached 3.6.0 they switched their recommendation to 3.5.x. Dream you will have real fixes for the 3.x branch of Apache OpenOffice

3,000 bug fixes (3, Interesting)

Trashcan Romeo (2675341) | 1 year,6 days | (#44383317)

How many to go?

Re:3,000 bug fixes (2)

NotFamous (827147) | 1 year,6 days | (#44383367)

To Infinity and Beyond!

Re:3,000 bug fixes (3, Insightful)

Synerg1y (2169962) | 1 year,6 days | (#44383551)

including an experimental improved sidebar

Infinity sounds about right...

Re:3,000 bug fixes (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383611)

According to the LibreOffice Bugzilla [libreoffice.org] , 2937, if you don't count NEW bugs.

Re:3,000 bug fixes (2)

CarsonChittom (2025388) | 1 year,6 days | (#44383713)

Commenting to undo an unmeant moderation.

Re:3,000 bug fixes (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44385913)

Commenting to call you a fag.

Re:3,000 bug fixes (3, Informative)

steelfood (895457) | 1 year,6 days | (#44383851)

You need to consider that it's a suite of applications, with each one at a different level of maturity.

Three thousand would seem like a big number. Except if you break it down, it might (hypothetically) be a hundred in Writer, a hundred in Calc, and two thousand in Base. And, I wonder how much of these are behind-the-scenes fixes, like changing exception handlers to do something useful instead of logging and then throwing the exception away.

Re:3,000 bug fixes (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383879)

Back in my QA days we used to call certain bugs "features"

Re:3,000 bug fixes (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44385501)

We still do....

Re:3,000 bug fixes (1)

Barsteward (969998) | 1 year,6 days | (#44385717)

aaaaahhh. so you're the one who worked for Microsoft

Re:3,000 bug fixes (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384831)

Not too much...

If they resove too many bugs, they have to introduce new ones to keep it compatible with Micosoft Office...

Not to be outdone. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383401)

Once again, LibreOffice demonstrates that it is a downstream version of OpenOffice.

Open Source (3, Informative)

CritterNYC (190163) | 1 year,6 days | (#44383749)

LibreOffice is free to take everything OpenOffice releases under the Apache license and release it under GPL/LGPL 3.0 of their release. Unfortunately, OpenOffice can't do the reverse without switching their license.

Re:Open Source (1)

greg1104 (461138) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384133)

Unfortunately, OpenOffice can't do the reverse without switching their license.

It's not really unfortunate when it's by design. LibreOffice wants to make Apache OpenOffice become so redundant the project just gives up. This is how open source developers protest work that they feel is being done poorly. They fork the project in a way that allows only one-way code copying, and then try to starve the original of resources and its user base.

Re:Open Source (1)

Bill_the_Engineer (772575) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384289)

It's not that great of a strategy. LibreOffice is a derivative of OpenOffice and they do risk appearing to be simply a downstream GPLed version of OpenOffice.

Re:Open Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384449)

LibreOffice is a derivative of OpenOffice.org

Apache OpenOffice is a somewhat younger derivative of OpenOffice.org

LibreOffice happen to have a license where they can merge stuff from Apache OpenOffice. Why shouldn't they? The Apache developers are explicity using the Apache licence so that people can use their code as they see fit.

The MPL was chosen before AOO and the Apache licence even became an issue -- the plan was to migrate from LGPL to MPL. Now all the MPL changes have been rebased onto Apache code rather than being on top of LGPL. Meaning improvements from AOO can now be included, as the AOO developers intended. They could have not published their changes, or used the GPL if they didn't want LO to borrow their changes. Apache developers are free to take changes LO developers make, as long as they stay under the MPL. Where's the problem?

Re:Open Source (1)

Bill_the_Engineer (772575) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384603)

Apache developers are free to take changes LO developers make, as long as they stay under the MPL. Where's the problem?

The problem is your reading comprehension. I didn't say that LibreOffice was bad. I was replying to greg's comment and stated that trying "to starve the original of resources and its user base" by one-way code copying is not a great strategy because it risks having LibreOffice appear to simply be a downstream GPLed version of OpenOffice.

The point is moot since LibreOffice appears to want a better office suite and I'm sure they aren't out to get anyone especially something that actually benefits them.

LibreOffice is a derivative of OpenOffice.org [.] Apache OpenOffice is a somewhat younger derivative of OpenOffice.org

Apache OpenOffice is not a younger derivative of OpenOffice.org. AOO is OpenOffice under an Apache license.

Re:Open Source (1)

greg1104 (461138) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384563)

The main risk is that the split in resources will cause both projects to be not good enough. Being perceived as a downstream version of another project, but with additions incompatible with their terms, that doesn't necessarily favor either end. There's a similar relationship between Debian and Ubuntu that turned out to make both more popular. What LibreOffice is trying to do is more like the XFree86 vs. Xorg split though.

Re:Open Source (3, Interesting)

Bill_the_Engineer (772575) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384727)

OpenOffice has paid developers. The license allows the sponsor companies to make their own commercial versions with unique features as a way to get a return on their investment. Think Eclipse not XFree86.

LibreOffice is a derivative of OpenOffice. It has features and bug fixes unique to its distribution. LibreOffice uses the GPL to protect their return on investment and not to specifically harm OpenOffice. I'm sure there are some people in LibreOffice that do think that way, but I think LibreOffice needs OpenOffice more than they care to admit.

Re:Open Source (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384321)

That's not really what happened. LibreOffice forked back when Oracle had the copyright to OpenOffice and wasn't doing anything with it (including allowing outside commits!). Then, after Libre progressed a bit, Oracle donated the OpenOffice copyright to the Apache foundation.

Automatic Update (1)

BenJury (977929) | 1 year,6 days | (#44383681)

Have they fixed the automatic update system yet? Or do I need to go and do it manually again like its the 90s?

Re: Automatic Update (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383787)

Isn't it just "apt-get upgrade" to update?

Re: Automatic Update (1)

DiamondGeezer (872237) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384583)

No.

Re:Automatic Update (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383893)

What's the bug # ?
Thanks in advance!

Exclusivity of read+write? (1)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | 1 year,6 days | (#44383709)

improving their exclusive capability in the free software world of not only being able to read but also write .docx and .xlsx files)

Is this really true? I mean, not an office suite, but PHPExcel can read and write Excel files.

Re:Exclusivity of read+write? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384729)

LO can read/write OOXML - AOO can't.

Please note... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383727)

...there is already a site more or less dedicated to announcements about Libre Office updates. It's called libreoffice.org, and I think most people around here know about it, so we so not need another one.

Re:Please note... (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384173)

Now if we just had a site to aggregate those announcements/news from all over the web that would make it easy for people to get tech news... Someone should invent that site.

Ribbon (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383849)

I don't want a sidebar. I want a ribbon. You get all used to the ribbon, and you don't want to go back. The ribbon is so much better. How long can you use this suite before deciding it's not worth it, and go back to MS Office 2010 or Office 2013? Usually when I try stuff like libre office, I can only go a day, maybe a week, before I run into formatting problems and critical missing features. In the real world, we share office documents. It's hard enough dealing with the differences between MS Office 2010, Office 2011, and Office 2013. God forbid if someone wanted to use Office 2008. Unless you can convince everyone who writes the documents, and everyone who views the document, and the publishers to accept it, and whatnot, basically everyone to use LibreOffice, it just doesn't work. And that's real world, after college stuff.

I know many of you skipped college, but you would have learned a lesson there. Do you know what happens when a student tries to make their lab report in LibreOffice, or on a mac or something, and then uses a school windows computer to print it 2 minutes before class? The formatting gets all messed up, and I doc them points because of it. So you make extra work for yourself. You either have to save time to re work on your document, or you have to own your own printer and save time to use it before class.

Re:Ribbon (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | 1 year,6 days | (#44383895)

What kind of idiot public school teacher requires my children to do their work digitally then print it out on paper? Oh. Ones like you. Fucking idiots. Every last one.

Re:Ribbon (1)

timeOday (582209) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384157)

Formatting differences would appear onscreen, just as much as in print.

That said, I think it was just a troll... nobody actually likes the Ribbon do they?

Re:Ribbon (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384817)

It was not the differences I was complaining about. It is the teachers demanding that something be created digitally then printed and handed in. Happens at my children's school all the time. Fucking stupid.

Re:Ribbon (1)

TheEyes (1686556) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384955)

The Ribbon's not so bad; it's just a tabbed toolbar that's extra-thick so it can display more information than a normal one. I just want to be able to search the menus too, like you can in LO/Ubuntu.

Re:Ribbon (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384243)

Wow some anger issues there Dishevel?!?

There are many valid reasons to have print it out on paper.
1. Locations to mark/edit: I am not a school teacher but I will print out my own work and then I can review it on public transit, at a coffee shop, laying down in bed, or where ever.

2. For many if not most mistakes are easier to see on paper. When I am given docs to review I will sometimes print them out and look at them as a bigger picture and find things that I did not find on the screen.

3. Editing. It is easier to circle parts and use standard marking terms to indicate what is incorrect or what can be improved. For example circle a sentence or paragraph and draw an error to where it should be moved.

4. When going over the corrections and suggestions with your students it is easier to go over the print out then have to carry a computer around to each and every students desk.

But then again you can just calling them idiots ignoring their education, and experience... we have an adjective for this... oh ya, ignorant, because if it inconveniences you there can be nothing good of it...

Re:Ribbon (0)

Dishevel (1105119) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384859)

Annotations work great in the real world. Public school teachers come in two varieties.

New.

Useless Fucks.

Re: Ribbon (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44385355)

Although you are not a teacher (apparently) you clearly aren't new, so that'd make you...

Re:Ribbon (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384473)

It's, sadly, still easier to show students where and how they fucked up their spelling, grammar, and etc with a red pen on paper. Office suites are still a PITA to use for showing corrections.

Re:Ribbon (1)

EvanED (569694) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384629)

A stylus-based tablet is actually a decent compromise. You get the benefits (and drawbacks) of being electronic, but still get to scribble on it to your heart's content.

Re:Ribbon (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384737)

Yes, because every family can afford a few of those.

Re:Ribbon (1)

EvanED (569694) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384909)

What? Only the teacher needs one.

Though I did intend to say something about many teachers will feel they're not being paid enough to buy one, though.

Re:Ribbon (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383965)

Or they could just save it to PDF and print from any modern OS/computer.

And while you may love the ribbon, not all of us do.

Re:Ribbon (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384211)

What a fucking teacher you are. How about telling your students to print their work to pdf. There presto, no more last minute formatting problems. A pdf renders the same on any OS and especially prints the same on any OS.
If yours is the kind of intellectual flexibility that is tought in college may GOD save us. We're all doomed.

Re:Ribbon (1)

Teun (17872) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384607)

That's why the students prints it out on his own computer to a pdf (the Export option in LO) and brings the pdf to school for paper printing.

Doofus...

Re:Ribbon (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384609)

I don't want a sidebar. I want a ribbon. You get all used to the ribbon, and you don't want to go back.

I don't want a sidebar or especially a ribbon. I fucking HATE that goddamned ribbon. That ribbon is one of the larger reasons I'm glad I'm retiring next year. The ribbom in Excel is nothing like the ribbon in Word, and neither is anything like the ribbon in Access. Outlook is even worse. What's worse than that is when they upgraded from Office 7 to 10 they changed where crap was in the damned ribbon.

That ribbon is insane. After thirty years of file-save we had "funny wierd non-hovering icon"-save. At least they brought "file" back with 2010. See, lady I'm literate. I hate icons. Icons are fine for kindergartners but not for the literate. I don't want to have to hunt through three rows of confusing icons, I want to hit one of half a dozen written words that indicate what's behind it.

Usually when I try stuff like libre office, I can only go a day, maybe a week, before I run into formatting problems and critical missing features.

I'm writing a book using Open Office and after saving it in .doc it formatted perfectly in a friend's copy of Word. I saw folks at slashdot praising LibreOffice and tried it out. As soon as I opened the book in it, I closed the program and uninstalled it; no full justification is a non-starter for me.

Do you know what happens when a student tries to make their lab report in LibreOffice, or on a mac or something, and then uses a school windows computer to print it 2 minutes before class? The formatting gets all messed up, and I doc them points because of it.

Do you know what happens when you save your document in PDF format? It prints the same on every computer and every printer. No Microsoft garbage needed. And BTW, since you claim to be a teacher I'm docking you points for misspelling a very simple word. [google.com] Sheesh, with teachers like you no wonder the Converse street bar has "Todays Special's" and so many slashdotters don't know the difference between the verbs "lose" and "loose" (never mind there, they're, and their). But it kind of gives me an idea why you like the ribbon. I'll bet you had a hard time getting through college what with your dyslexia (yes, the ribbon is great for dyslexics and children).

And why are you asking for PAPER?? Why not just have them email you a PDF? It's the 21st cenury, get with the times.

Re:Ribbon (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44385069)

I didn't say I was a teacher. You think the teachers do the grading? The TA's do the grading. The TAs all have more important stuff to do than grade papers. They want to grade them as fast as possible. The professors set the policies, like requiring it on paper. The TA's don't make that decision idiot. And we ask for paper, because how to you grade digitally? You put in electronic comments and stuff? Do you realize how much longer that takes to do? Grading digital work would add hours to our grading load, and we aren't paid enough to put up with that. Every time we do accept a late assignment, a digital copy, etc, it creates a lot more work for us, and we don't get paid any extra. Imagine if the whole class did digitally every week? It'd be a nightmare. Then, you would have to individually email them back their corrected assignments. Do you want to write 44 emails every week? On paper, you can hand it back to them in class, while you are watching them anyways.

You know, the students can choose to print to PDF to solve that problem. But you know what, in the real world, most of them do not. We are talking around 18-20 year olds usually. They aren't the most mature or smart people. I do tell them on the first day to print to PDF. THEY DON'T LISTEN!

And I know how to spell, but spelling correctly takes longer and I had places to go. I haven't even taught in a couple years. I don't have dsylexia, and college was easy.

The ribbon is organized well, and has most features on it, when using an HD screen. You don't have to hunt for options buried 3 levels deep. The ribbon makes all features obvious. You see a button, and go, I wonder what that does. You don't have to go 3 levels deep. Before the ribbon, you had to add custom menu buttons just for superscript and subscript. With the ribbon, those buttons are right there, by default.

Not only have those who criticized never have tried to being a college TA, I don't think you even were a student. I have years of TA experience.The students don't listen, they don't plan ahead, they don't manage their time well, they aren't very bright. You will get a few good students. But it's the worst students that you worry about. The poor students take up all your time, cause you the most trouble, bring down your grade average, and give you poor teaching evaluations. Some of the students are truly stupid and don't belong in college at all. I dealt mostly with freshmen. Freshmen don't even care about their grades, except the premeds and the smart ones. Most of them haven't realized they need to study hard to keep their scholarships. They are too busy partying and stuff to worry about that their first semester.

Don't talk about what you don't know about.

Re:Ribbon (2)

Alex Vulpes (2836855) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384683)

I understand that LibreOffice has compatibility issues with MS Office formats, and this can make LibreOffice a poor choice in many professional environments. However:

It's hard enough dealing with the differences between MS Office 2010, Office 2011, and Office 2013. God forbid if someone wanted to use Office 2008.

If, by your own admission, MS Office has trouble being compatible with itself, should LibreOffice really be blamed for running into problems here?

OneNote (1)

camperdave (969942) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384815)

Ribbon/No-ribbon. Sidebar/No-sidebar. Phah! Where's LibreOneNote?

Re:Ribbon (1)

blackest_k (761565) | 1 year,6 days | (#44386225)

Libre Office is available for Windows and the smart cookies would print to pdf from libre office and print the pdf for you to mark.

Meanwhile my University Professors were getting my open office documents in doc format opening them in open office and marking them. It's been a while since I was submitting papers, before oracle.

Is your faculty aware of your discrimination towards your students? Not every student has a silver spoon or working parents. Maybe it really is a question of finance especially since you suggest some of your students can not afford a printer. It seems hardly likely they have the money for Microsoft Office either. Of course they could pirate it but that hardly prepares them for life as an honest upstanding member of the community.

Are you in the business of educating or leaching a pay check from the public purse?

 

paying the bills (4, Interesting)

Almost-Retired (637760) | 1 year,6 days | (#44383955)

Having this done by a group of volunteers is nice & all that.

BUT!

These folks need to travel and smooze with others, both for the publicity, and to keep the ideas about how to do something fresh. Who knows, maybe one of them will put in that killer feature we've all been waiting for?

So when you are done downloading it, take the time to donate, so maybe the 5.0 release can afford a bigger cake. The one I saw in the pix was about 5% of the size of the one it would take to feed all the volunteers a celebratory piece of cake, maybe even with a scoop of ice cream on top. IMNSHO, speaking as a retired person living on SS, I dropped the card to say thanks. Surely the working folks who will make better use of this than I ever will, can better afford to pull out the card?

I would firmly suggest that others do the same if we want to see a 5.0 or higher release. Nothing kills a volunteer operation quicker than not being able to pay the bills.

Cheers, Gene

Re:paying the bills (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384671)

Who knows, maybe one of them will put in that killer feature we've all been waiting for?

An EASY button that I can press to get everyone in my company and any affiliate companies to switch so I don't get hassled when something in the document doesn't look quite right in Word?

Re:paying the bills (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384827)

That's the "Export to PDF" button; it's been in there since version one dot something.

Killer feature (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44385169)

OneNote clone.

Re:paying the bills (1)

rduke15 (721841) | 1 year,6 days | (#44385263)

Who knows, maybe one of them will put in that killer feature we've all been waiting for?

Like making it able to write clean structured HTML for people who want to write (not code in a text editor)? That would be great, but I wouldn't count on it.

Still waiting for the killer new generation word.processor which focuses on HTML instead of Letter/A4 printing...

What fills in for Outlook? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44383957)

As a long-time MS Office user I find Outlook to be very useful. I've attempted to migrate from Office to OS but LO doesn't have an Outlook replacement, so LO is a non-starter and I'm back where I started with Office. I've tried Zimbra and Evolution with bad results, and I don't want an online/cloud approach. LO would be fine for me if I could find an OS Outlook alternative. What are your thoughts?

Re:What fills in for Outlook? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384171)

Buy Outlook for emails/contacts/caldendar and use Openoffice/Libreoffice for the rest.

Re:What fills in for Outlook? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384599)

Use PINE, you fucking tool. It's the Outlook replacement, and it's been around for ages.

One more fix they need... (1)

Daetrin (576516) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384209)

The one change i really want to get them to implement is the two tone colors in the row and column headers in the spreadsheet program. As it is the top half of the column headers and the left half of the row headers is light grey, while the other half of each is dark grey. That probably seems like a pretty trivial complaint, and maybe it's just me, but something about having half the area light and the other half dark plays havoc with my brain and makes it hard to read the labels, especially for the row headers where the line dividing the colors aligns with the numbers.

As a moderate user of spreadsheets this is the only thing that Excel handles better than OpenOffice/LibreOffice. Well okay, that and copy/pasting HTML content. Excel handles that just fine, but in OO/LO it hangs for awhile when i do the paste, and then if i undo the paste the text goes away but the formatting and images stick around forever. (This generally happens when trying to transfer tabular data from a webpage. Once it's in the spreadsheet i'll copy it again and do a Paste Special->Unformatted Text.)

Java to Python (3, Interesting)

RoccamOccam (953524) | 1 year,6 days | (#44384393)

If I'm reading the new features page correctly, they appear to be seeing some pretty sizable code reduction in the utilities where they are replacing Java with Python. To avoid misunderstanding, let me point out that I am aware that only a few parts of the project were coded in Java and the bulk is in C++.

Apache ha! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384453)

I'm expecting Apache to pull their typical BS any way.

First they decide: the product isn't generic enough.,/p>

Then they make a new product that's more generic, but break backward compatibility. Which is also nearly unusable, by design..

Page Break (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,6 days | (#44384935)

Still no Page Break line while in Web Layout view.

The biggest setback from having LibreOffice implemented in my company. Word 97 had this feature!

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