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Forget Apple: Samsung Could Be Google's Next Big Rival

samzenpus posted about a year ago | from the on-deck dept.

Android 223

Nerval's Lobster writes "The idea of Samsung as a Google rival isn't unprecedented. For the past several quarters, Samsung has progressively molded Android to its own vision: layered with TouchWiz and sprinkled with all sorts of Samsung-centric apps, the software interface on Samsung devices is deviating rapidly away from the 'stock' Android that runs on other manufacturers' devices. During this year's unveiling of the Samsung Galaxy S4 at New York City's Radio City Music Hall, Samsung executives onstage barely mentioned the word 'Android,' and played up features designed specifically for the device. Establishing its own brand identity by moving away from 'stock' Android has done Samsung a lot of good: its smartphones and tablets not only stand out from the flood of Android devices on the market, but it's given the company an opportunity to position itself as the one true rival to iOS. While other Android manufacturers struggle, Samsung has profited. If Samsung continues to gain strength, it could become a huge issue for Google, which has its own eye on the hardware segment. Although Google purchased Motorola in 2011 for $12.5 billion, it hasn't yet remolded the brand in its own image, claiming that the subsidiary's existing pipeline of products first needs to be flushed into the ecosystem. But that reluctance could be coming to an end: reports suggest that Google will pump $500 million into marketing the Moto X, an upcoming 'hero' smartphone meant to reestablish Motorola's dominance of the Android space. If the Moto X succeeds, and Google decides to push aggressively into the branded hardware space, it could drive Samsung even further away from core Android. Never mind issuing TouchWiz updates until the original Android interface is virtually unrecognizable—with its industry heft, Samsung could potentially boot Google Play from the home-screen and substitute it with an apps-and-content hub of its own design. That would take a lot of work, of course: first, Samsung would need to build a substantial developer ecosystem, and then it would need to score great deals with movie studios and other content providers. But as Amazon and Apple have shown, such things aren't impossible. The only questions are whether (a) Samsung has the will to devote the necessary time and resources to such a project, and (b) if it's willing to transform its symbiotic relationship with Google into an antagonistic one."

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this is ridiculous (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388357)

I have a Samsung Galaxy S4. I purchased it because it is the industry-leader. I do not use any of the samsung-specific features, and do not have a samsung account. It is a solid android phone, running the latest release, and is compatible with third party keyboards, facebook messenger (I can't get off facebook no matter how hard I try), and also mightytext and google voice. Like any computer, there are instabilities, but I report them, and samsung and at&t collaborate on updates. these instabilities are few and far between and do not appear to be related to touchwiz.

I did have to remove an at&t address book backup app, but that was at&t's fault.

They are also successful because they sell phones with styli which is very important in asian countries where the pen is used to write letters of the alphabet.

Re:this is ridiculous (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388501)

If you're asked a question that you don't know the answer to, how do you respond? Do you answer honestly that you do not know the answer? Do you make up an explanation on the spot and pretend that it's true? Do you do something else?

Theists choose the second route and simply make up explanations to fill in their gaps in knowledge; cretins, all of them.

Re:this is ridiculous (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388553)

Like any computer, there are instabilities, but I report them, and samsung and at&t collaborate on updates.

Um, no. Samsung is one of the worst android vendors for releasing updates.

Re:this is ridiculous (0)

Zontar The Mindless (9002) | about a year ago | (#44388861)

Please mod parent up. The OP is indeed making shit up--see my response to same.

Re:this is ridiculous (4, Interesting)

goombah99 (560566) | about a year ago | (#44388645)

I agree it's redonculous. Why would samsung want to do that? They make money on hardware, they can't make money on search but google can. If google makes money on search, then it doesn't lower samsungs hardware profits. So it's win win. Even apple cant quit samsungs fabs, so samsung will always have a hardware volume advantage over any other maker including moto X.

Personally, I plan to buy a google nexus not a samsung for precisely the opposite easons given. What I want is a system that if I invest in it, it wil have a path forward. Buying the most stock platform, when it's highly featured, makes a lot more sense to me than buying a flash in the pan setup. Same reason I didn't buy amazons subsidized tablet. For me, my time and effort is worth more than saving $100 on something or having the sexiest screen tweak, only to have it go obsolete or unmaintained in the next gen.

I often bough apple all though the 90s and 2000s for the same reason. It's just not worth my time to screw around with cheaper shit that has problems I didn't plan on.

No touch wiz (4, Funny)

goombah99 (560566) | about a year ago | (#44388653)

When I pee I use the no-touch system.

Re:this is ridiculous (4, Interesting)

_merlin (160982) | about a year ago | (#44388735)

Well I can counter your anecdote with one of my own. I bought my Galaxy S3 because of the Samsung features. I love multi-window, local SyncML over USB or WiFi so my contacts and calendar don't go through the "cloud", Kies Air for accessing phone data through the browser, the Samsung image gallery application, the ability to easily upgrade/downgrade/crossgrade and even load "frankenfirmware" using Odin3, etc. I never sign in to any Google services from my phone - I've made a point of not entering a Google login or password once.

Re:this is ridiculous (4, Interesting)

symbolset (646467) | about a year ago | (#44388841)

Congratulations. You bought the pinnacle of modern technology and then deliberately crippled it.

Re:this is ridiculous (2)

_merlin (160982) | about a year ago | (#44388851)

I really don't like Google. Samsung firmware lets me run Android without using Google services. What's your problem?

Re:this is ridiculous (4, Informative)

Zontar The Mindless (9002) | about a year ago | (#44388857)

I was sort of with you until I got to this:

They are also successful because they sell phones with styli which is very important in asian countries where the pen is used to write letters of the alphabet.

Why the stylus? Is Google Pinyin banned from the S4 or something? Works great on both my S3 and Tab 2 for writing Chinese characters. (They're not letters, BTW.)

All the Chinese people I know--including my partner--use pinyin input method of some sort for this, not a stylus. The capability has existed for ages on Windows, Android, and Linux (and I would be extremely surprised if MacOSX and iOS didn't provide it also).

So I'm forced to call bullshit.

(I wish they'd hurry up with the Linux port for Google Pinyin because the latest updates to SCIM have broken it horribly and now I can only write Chinese using my phone or tablet.)

Re:this is ridiculous (5, Informative)

iserlohn (49556) | about a year ago | (#44389083)

Not everybody uses Pinyin in greater China. People in Hong Kong and Taiwan for example usually use T9, or some other quick input method based on brush strokes. But for some complicated words you can't find, it's just easier to use the pen. Handwriting recognition is very accurate in Chinese as the number and direction of the brush stroke is matched to a database of words. There is a system on how you write each Chinese character in terms of brush strokes and there is usually only one way to write it properly. It is also a natural way of inputting characters if you haven't had previous exposures to computers, for the elderly, for example. Another reason is that not everybody speaks Mandarin (Pinyin is romanization system for Mandarin). Pinyin in Hong Kong will probably never catch on.

Re:this is ridiculous (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44389135)

Here in Taiwan, I see tons of people using handwriting/stylus input. Zhuyin sucks on most phones and only foreigners know Pinyin. But aside from that, people seem to be really fast at the shorthand system used for handwriting recognition, and much slower at typing in general (on phones).

Styluses are really a big selling point over here, and women carry the oversized phones in their bags that they are obsessed with (the Samsung note is HUGE with this crowd).

Re:this is ridiculous (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44389065)

Totally agree,
my wife is jealous of my old nexus s while she's got an s3 mini (better hardware, but samsung crap all aover the place), especially since i put CM 10.1 on it with an adapted kernel (and got the patches for the sec fail almost instantly).
Even more, samsung (and htc) are aware of the fact that a lot of their users are fed up with bulky ressource-hungry skins and features very few use, and (so i heard ) are selling their flagships now also with stock androids (optional but still, if they're keen on their branding, why bother offering stock android)....

Because we all know .. (2)

OhANameWhatName (2688401) | about a year ago | (#44388361)

.. how well platform divergence works. In a few years we could have the choice between a dozen different mobile operating systems! Hellelujah

Re:Because we all know .. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388587)

I don't know if you're being serious or sarcastic, but I for one would seriously welcome a dozen different mobile operating systems. Competition is a good thing. I don't want one platform to rule them all, but several platforms with standards for interoperability.

Re:Because we all know .. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388719)

In the real world, you have *either* competition *or* interoperability.

Welcome to standards :) (4, Informative)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44388805)

In the real world, you have *either* competition *or* interoperability.

Hardware USB, SATA, HDMI, WIFI 802.11 standards
Software OpenGL ES, JAVA, HTML5

Re:Welcome to standards :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388923)

Hardware USB, SATA, HDMI, WIFI 802.11 standards Software OpenGL ES, JAVA, HTML5

exFAT file system driver liberated from Microsoft

"A student and programmer using the name “rxrz” has posted a large chunk of a proprietary Microsoft file-system software to GitHub, claiming that she’s liberating it for the open source world. She says that the software was leaked from Samsung,

Rxrz became interested in exFAT while trying to scratch an itch. “Basically, I just got one of those large 2TB external hard drives, and needed to share the data with my friends and family,” rxrz said in an e-mail interview. She was using Linux, but needed to share data with people on other platforms, so she decided to try to fix it. “I just felt that more people who use Linux end up in the same unfair situation all over the planet, and just don’t know that there’s a source for this driver on GitGub,” she says. “The more I have read about exFAT, the worse I felt about this whole ‘proprietary’ story.”

Microsoft’s exFAT licensing terms rankle some open-source advocates, like rxrz, who say they’re overly burdensome. “All I’ve done is given the community of open source developers and linux/android users a way to finally share data between all major OS’s without any excessive impact on the performance,” she wrote on GitHub."

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/07/samsung_code/ [wired.com]

Re:Because we all know .. (2)

ozmanjusri (601766) | about a year ago | (#44388863)

Now that's just bullshit.

It's always been the monopolists who've refused to interoperate. They want to lock people to their systems.

Re:Because we all know .. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44389163)

No, it's the company in the lead with a particular technology that refuses to interoperate.

Google talk is the perfect example here –they were way behind microsoft in terms of people using their service, so they used an open standard, that interoperated well with all the other jabber clients out there – it wasn't much, but it gave them a start in their user base.

As soon as they got into a situation where tons of people were using their service (because of android), suddenly they drop the open protocol and close it down.

For the same reason Google maps and search are closed. For the same reason, google chose an open basis for android, and for the same reason they're slowly closing bits of android (starting with the SDK licensing change for example).

Companies in the lead close things down; companies catching up use open things to do so.

Re:Because we all know .. (1)

Zontar The Mindless (9002) | about a year ago | (#44388879)

In the real world, you are an idiot.

It's the cloud man. (4, Interesting)

goombah99 (560566) | about a year ago | (#44388715)

It's interesting that Google is pulling the same trick Apple did with regard to reducing ports and expansions. For example the new nexus 7 doesn't have HDMI out even though all its major competotrs besides Ipad do. The apple solution is appleTV which, while costing a bit more, is an overall better solution aside from portability. Google just came out with chromecast which also offloads the need for a port onto a wireless device that costs extra. same scheme. Likewise, icloud is apples way of not requiring as much memory in their devices (or power for things like Siri). And google follows the same path with chrome.

Samsung can't match that. THey can toss in ports but in the long run the cloud model and the wireless model are going to win. Apple got it right and google figured that out too. Samsung is not going be building a cloud of their own on short notice. THeir only hope will be to buy or partner with someone who has a cloud (Nokia or Amazon) if they want to go toe to toe with google.

Good. (5, Insightful)

ozmanjusri (601766) | about a year ago | (#44388363)

That's a great benefit of competition in an open platform. If Samsung's good enough, to usurp Google, then customers of both will benefit.

MS/Apple style lockin is what's to be feared, not good healthy competition.

Re:Good. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388465)

Go go android fragmentation! As more features are added to new versions of Android from Google it takes longer for Samsung to merge its changes into that new version and thus the time to get updates to users is extended (as is the time to get security updates). Then of course devs start using Samsung (or whatever manufacturer) APIs and instead of creating Android apps they are creating Samsung-Android apps.

Open platforms are good but we've seen what happens when you just allow manufacturers to do whatever they want, you get all different versions and manufacturers abandon those versions at a ridiculous pace leaving them unable to be upgraded or even to receive security patches. It's not a problem with Android per-se but the fact that Google doesn't use the OHA to actually mandate that companies support versions and devices reflects badly on Google and Android as a whole.

Choice (4, Informative)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44388517)

As more features are added to new versions of Android from Google it takes longer for Samsung to merge its changes into that new version

Why? I hate to say it but as a programmer, I would find it shocking if there is not a massive move towards making sure that as little work as possible is needed in making sure that Samsung changes are not trivial to apply.

I find it even more surprising considering that Android is pretty modular in the interface, You can swap all interface elements, many are sold in their play store I own several.

I find it even more surprising again In fact Google is moving most of their first party applications out of the core OS, making it easy to update whatever version of Android you are running.

Re:Choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388889)

It becomes a balancing act of avoiding difficulty while differentiating their offerings. In the end it is all about money. Currently they are simply stomping the competition so it isn't a real issue, but if they start to need to fight to hold their market share things could rapidly change.

Re:Choice (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about a year ago | (#44389149)

One of the big new featured rumoured for the next version of Android, Key Lime Pie, is that it will support skinning by manufacturers that the user can turn off. You will be able to flip back and forth between stock Android and the manufacturer's skin.

In fact you can pretty much do that today in fact. There are basically two major components to an Android skin. You have the graphical changes which are usually fairly minor, just different colours and some slightly altered icons here and there. Then you have the manufacturer's custom launcher (home screen) which is easy to replace with the stock one, no rooting required as it is a fully supported Android feature.

Remember that Google's goal is to get people using their services. The more users the more money they make. From that point of view it makes sense to split the apps out of the core OS (as they always have been, it's nothing new) so that even users without the very latest OS revision can get most of the new features through ordinary app updates.

Note also that Samsung offers a version of the GS4 running stock Android, supported by Google. The idea that these two are going to fight it out is ridiculous - Samsung relies on Google for Android updates and features, Google gets a lot of sales and the most popular Android handsets from Samsung. Manufacturers have always included exclusive features in their phones to differentiate themselves from the competition, and Google knew they would and helped facilitate them. Diversity is seen as a good thing. Only Apple fans care about what they see as fragmentation, while everyone else sees it as choice and innovation driving the market forwards.

Still banging that fragmentation drum (4, Insightful)

symbolset (646467) | about a year ago | (#44388865)

6 years on and obviously not Winning, but you're going to keep banging that drum, aren't you? Couldn't stop Android from getting top dog with this story, but still trying to find some fool to influence with it. Why don't we talk about Windows fragmentation, and all of the devices and apps left behind each version, how even Microsoft doesn't even support their own older OS with their apps and so fragments their own installed base? Or maybe Windows Phone, where 7.x apps don't even run on 8.x?

Re:Good. (3, Insightful)

Zontar The Mindless (9002) | about a year ago | (#44388967)

This is the same as the very tired "Linux fragmentation" arguments we've all seen and heard before.

Re:Good. (1)

Thanshin (1188877) | about a year ago | (#44388709)

That's a great benefit of competition in an open platform. If Samsung's good enough, to usurp Google, then customers of both will benefit.

Actually. Even if Samsung isn't good enough, customers will still benefit. Competition, even if it's only remotely fair, is still much better than monopoly.

The added benefit of competition on an open platform is that customers aren't the only ones to benefit. The faster improvement of the platform improves the shared knowledge and raises the starting point of any future effort to improve.

Closing platforms should be punished with a "purposefully resisting the technological improvement of humanity" tax.

Re:Good. (1)

thegarbz (1787294) | about a year ago | (#44388807)

Yes and no, because what customers really don't need right now is another under appreciated app store. Or do we really want to go down the road where apps start costing a small fortune because every developer has to fork out $30 to every manufacturer for the privilege of listing their app in yet another store?

Won't say it's impossible... (5, Insightful)

yellowcord (607995) | about a year ago | (#44388367)

Don't think it's too likely in the near future though. They now have the S4 Play Edition so I'm not sure that Samsung will be ditching andoid any time soon. I think they could make a go at it but without the Play ecosystem they'd basically be back to square one and be back with BlackBerry and Windows Phone for apps.

Re:Won't say it's impossible... (4, Interesting)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | about a year ago | (#44389127)

Don't think it's too likely in the near future though. They now have the S4 Play Edition so I'm not sure that Samsung will be ditching andoid any time soon. I think they could make a go at it but without the Play ecosystem they'd basically be back to square one and be back with BlackBerry and Windows Phone for apps.

What? that Samsung will end it's symbiotic relationship with Google and turn it into an antagonistic one by becoming a Google rival? Isn't that what Google did to Apple? They abandoned their symbiotic relationship with Apple and used Eric Schmidt's position as an Apple board member to become a competitor in the Mobile market. Why shouldn't Samsung take that lesson to heart, realise that to a large extent Android's success is the same thing as the success of Samsung products and leverage that position to hijack Android. If they are really are the driving force behind Android profits then they can simply fork Android, they can easily set up their own rival to the Play ecosystem and marginalise who'd be stuck with a fragmented landscape of struggling Android device manufacturers.

One other point (4, Insightful)

willoughby (1367773) | about a year ago | (#44388369)

I can pop the back of a Galaxy S4, slide in a microSD memory card & replace the battery - all without tools. That's why the Samsung phones have become the default geek Android phones (well, that & they are also easily rooted) even more-so than the latest Nexus devices. With the latest quad-core devices having enough power to run Touch-Wiz seamlessly (from what I've seen in-store, anyway) they are very nice out-of-box, even without root.

Re:One other point (5, Insightful)

pherthyl (445706) | about a year ago | (#44388381)

>> With the latest quad-core devices having enough power to run Touch-Wiz seamlessly

You know your software is a bloated piece of shit when...

Re:One other point (1)

willoughby (1367773) | about a year ago | (#44388407)

Point taken, & I agree. If it was mine, I'd rom it to Cyanogenmod. But my point was that... well I think you know my point. Anyway... good shot!

Re:One other point (1)

thegarbz (1787294) | about a year ago | (#44388821)

Not bloated just poorly written. It doesn't really have many features either useful or useless that aren't present in any other interface.

I don't think the Quad core is what make Touch-Wiz finally run smoothly. I think they just finally got it running somewhat better. Remember this is a company who rolled their own file system for the original Samsung Galaxy S which was so slow that Android often thought Apps which were writing to the disk were locked up and offered to force close them.

Re:One other point (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about a year ago | (#44389169)

It runs fine on my old Galaxy S, it's not bloated. What 4 cores are useful for is multitasking. My GS3 doesn't slow down when I'm installing or updating apps in the background. I can have lots of widgets without any noticeable performance loss. Everything is snappy and immediate.

Re:One other point (1)

rudy_wayne (414635) | about a year ago | (#44388427)

With the latest quad-core devices having enough power to run Touch-Wiz seamlessly (from what I've seen in-store, anyway) they are very nice out-of-box, even without root.

If your phone needs a quad core CPU . . . .WTF?

Re:One other point (2)

Zelos (1050172) | about a year ago | (#44388819)

And when did core count replace MHz as the standard marketing-speak meaningless processor comparison?

They are moving Android faster (4, Interesting)

SuperKendall (25149) | about a year ago | (#44388379)

Samsung is doing a better job of improving Android than Google is. Even though Google shipped hardware with BTLE, Samsung was the first company to offer libraries that actually let you use BTLE with Android!

I think at some point soon Samsung will take over where Android is heading, or just veer off with it's own version of Android entirely. And I'm not sure Android will be the worse for it.

I've also admired the custom work Amazon has done with Android. They had multi-user on the Fire before Google announced support for it.

Re:They are moving Android faster (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388467)

That's where I see Samsung going. They will eventually fully fork Android, like Amazon or B&N.

They won't fork it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388543)

They'll replace the core O/S with something like Tizen where they will have greater control over its operation.
Then once they build an even more dominant position they will put up their own walls to keep all their disciples locked in.

Re:They won't fork it (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | about a year ago | (#44388623)

They'll replace the core O/S with something like Tizen

People keep saying that but I don't think Samsung wants to give up on the app support AND widespread developer support Android gives them. They would much rather extend Android in a number of premium ways and get developers to use the Samsung specific extensions they are offering. It's way easier to do that then to get developers to port a whole app to Tizen.

Re:They won't fork it (1)

bloodhawk (813939) | about a year ago | (#44389093)

I think you are not understanding just how much Samsung dominate not just the smartphone market but the android space. If they fork change then the devs will more than likely follow, especially if they make it a relatively easy and seamless process.

Re:They won't fork it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44389153)

No. They'll need Google Maps or something of similar quality to compete.

Where are the Samsung Apps? (4, Insightful)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44388499)

Samsung is doing a better job of improving Android than Google is.

Except its interesting to note that Samsung have started offering Google Play Edition Phone due to demand for it. HTC has also a Google Play edition.

Where are the Samsungs compelling first party Apps? A quick search on Google Play https://play.google.com/store/search?q=samsung&c=apps [google.com] shows a couple of nice Applications to use with your Samsung smart tv and nothing else. Google Inc is a different story https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Google+Inc [google.com] .

Samsung apps are on Samsung devices. (0)

SuperKendall (25149) | about a year ago | (#44388637)

Where are the Samsungs compelling first party Apps? A quick search on Google Play...

Don't they ship on Samsung devices? Why would they even be on Play?

I thought the Note came with some nice drawing/note taking apps that were unique to the system.

All of the Google apps will also work on Samsung devices... and none of them are really compelling.

Thought is not good enough (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44388699)

I thought the Note came with some nice drawing/note taking apps that were unique to the system.

Hold on you announced "Samsung is doing a better job of improving Android than Google is." and now you can barely list any improvements that Samsung bring.

Android is about its killer First Party Applications, Even your precious Apple is lost without them. Microsoft is screaming anti trust without them. I wouldn't buy a phone without them.

Samsung bring a few nice touches to its custom android *interface*, that is worlds apart from replacing Google on custom Android.

Re:Samsung apps are on Samsung devices. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388825)

So you admittedly don't know what you're talking about, just like spreading FUD about Android's future.

Re:Where are the Samsung Apps? (2)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about a year ago | (#44389177)

Most of Samsung's apps are only available through their own app store that comes with their phones. Naturally they have no interest in offering them on other phones via Play, otherwise they wouldn't be exclusive any more.

Having said that I don't use any of them except for S Beam. I'm basically agreeing with your point, just saying that your comparison is flawed and doesn't necessarily reflect the popularity of Samsung apps.

Re:They are moving Android faster (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388813)

Of course you think so, Apple shill.

Wait! (4, Funny)

multiben (1916126) | about a year ago | (#44388405)

Let me get some popcorn. This is going to be a good debate with lots of well rounded and rational arguments.

Re:Wait! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388453)

Mark Penn, the former Clinton-family political operative who developed Microsoft’s Google-baiting “Don’t Get Scroogled” campaign, got a hefty promotion in the latest reorganization.

Uh, no, at least for tablets ... (1)

perpenso (1613749) | about a year ago | (#44388415)

Look at the Samsung tablets, 7 inch tablets are 1024 x 600 pixel, larger tablets are 1280 x 800. Serious, a 10 inch tablet with 1280 x 800. No, Samsung is not competitive at all today.

Strangle the Google Nexus 10 is 2560 x 1600 and its made by Samsung.

Re:Uh, no, at least for tablets ... (2)

perpenso (1613749) | about a year ago | (#44388443)

Strangle the Google Nexus 10 is 2560 x 1600 and its made by Samsung.

That should be "Strangely".

That's an odd typo. I thought "strangely" and typed "strangle". I'm in a good mood and the Nexus 10 is my favorite Android tablet, I mean it no harm. :-)

Re:Uh, no, at least for tablets ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388449)

Strangle the Google Nexus 10 is 2560 x 1600 and its made by Samsung.

Do you happen to be married with children, perhaps?

Samsung still a popular tablet maker (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44388617)

I'm not sure I agree http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24093213 [idc.com] Samsung is the most popular tablet maker after Apple with about 15% of the market...and rising(flat this quarter). Whether it deserves it is another matter.

Rival, yes. Biggest, no. (4, Informative)

Intropy (2009018) | about a year ago | (#44388469)

Samsung competes with Motorola, a side business of Android, one of Google's side businesses. Google has far bigger rivals in Microsoft's Bing and Facebook. Samsung sells a lot of phones, which is just what Google wants. It may be a version tarted up with a bunch of crapware, but it's still Android, and it's still funneling people into Google's web suite.

Re:Rival, yes. Biggest, no. (1)

mrchew1982 (2569335) | about a year ago | (#44388579)

"it's still funneling people into Google's web suite." And that my friends is all that Google should care about. It's their stated mission for Android, so it's a win-win situation. Google purchased Motorolla for PATENTS, not because they wanted to start making money selling phones. If Google is smart they will use the Moto phones to roll out new features that users want but manufacturers are leary of. It should work well for them to use that brand to set a baseline Android experience, much as they've done with the nexus series. Hell, if they haven't complained about amazon building their own app store (and conveniently leaving Play out) I really don't think that they care much about what direction Android takes, as long as it continues to use Google search and display Google Ads.

Re:Rival, yes. Biggest, no. (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year ago | (#44388613)

motorola mobility had shit all none of good patents left... it was destined for burn.

anyhow, they did complain about things like amazon did.. but they could only bitch. since then there has been minor changes to android rules to address this.

Moto X (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44388671)

motorola mobility had shit all none of good patents left... it was destined for burn.

...but Google own a hardware manufacturing company capable of generating more patents, and those will not be squandered on Frand patents this time. That is ignoring the fact they still have literally thousand of patents to Mine...and thousands more pending.

As for it being destined to burn. I think Motorola have finally Generated interest around their *assembled in America*(A mistake Apple have made) Moto X that the CEO has been flashing around being launched in just a few days. If its as cheap (and close to stock) as many are hoping including me. Motorola are back in the game. It looks to have some fun features like it being more aware. It knows your driving a car etc and it will use two separate processors to help improve battery life.

The big deal is Google is expected to spend US$500 million in marketing the Moto X so it looks like they have a product they believe in.

FRAND means money (2)

SuperKendall (25149) | about a year ago | (#44388721)

but Google own a hardware manufacturing company capable of generating more patents, and those will not be squandered on Frand patents this time.

FRAND patents are the only patents actually worth anything, because they earn you regular licensing income over a very long period of time.

All other patents are just nerf darts in a world where everyone has a pile of a million nerf darts stockpiled. You can fling them at each other all day long and in the end nothing changes, and you each have a pile of nerf darts.

Metaphorically speaking, Google doesn't even have the whistlers nor are any likely to be forthcoming from the husk of Motorola...

The big deal is Google is expected to spend US$500 million in marketing the Moto X

Which would be an excellent reason to sell GOOG, and expect Samsung to take Android for itself. Did you really think Samsung would just sit there and say Hurrah! when Google makes such a heavy push to steal sales from the Galaxy line?

FRAND vs Apple (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44388751)

FRAND patents are the only patents actually worth anything, because they earn you regular licensing income over a very long period of time.

Except Google is not interested in money, they are interested in advertising space. Your Apple(and Patent troll Microsoft) has abused FRAND licensing, and expecting band Android manufactures products on a few interface patents(and Microsoft Protection Money). It has been very successful for Apple

Your Apple committed a serious home goal as a Design(sic) company, as cross licensing of real technological innovation will happen behind closed doors. I get the feeling Apple is not going to invited to these back room meetings. I think we will see a lot of anti trust cases in future, with Apples abuse frandf licensing being used as an excuse.

The bottom line is Google Bought Mototrola for $12.5 Billion(ok less with tax breaks and parts sold off) its not going to worry about what it could make from a few cents cross licensing patents...when Nokia+Microsoft have set up a patent troll company, and Apple(And Microsoft) have attacked most of its OEMS.

Re: FRAND vs Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388823)

> Except Google is not interested in money, they are interested in advertising space.

Did you actually read what you wrote?

Patent Protection not Patent Troll (2)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44388871)

> Except Google is not interested in money, they are interested in advertising space.

Did you actually read what you wrote?

Yes, If you don't understand that *Google* spent $12.5Billion on acquiring patents to protect Android...Its mobile platform...to deliver advertising on. Not to become a Patent Rapist like Nokiasoft.

Google make Money from Advertising Space (4, Insightful)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44388473)

Unless Samsung become an advertising company, Google has nothing to fear from Samsung becoming completely independent from google. Googles main rivals is Facebook and maybe Amazon and that is not going to change any time soon.

In fact maybe slightly off topic its interesting to note that Google Chromecast is a dirt-cheap wireless video dongle that streams Netflix a company I thought of as direct competitive with Google Play

Re:Google make Money from Advertising Space (1)

thegarbz (1787294) | about a year ago | (#44388849)

Unless Samsung become an advertising company, Google has nothing to fear from Samsung becoming completely independent from google.

That's short sighted. A company should always fear when a hundred million potential customers are no longer funnelled through Google services. If they split from the Google Play store and partnered with a different search engine / data provider then I believe Google would really take notice.

Samsungs Bing Phone (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44388949)

That's short sighted. A company should always fear when a hundred million potential customers are no longer funnelled through Google services.

Except Microsoft Scream Antitrust when Google does not put applications on their dead platform, and Apples top Applications are Google Maps+Google Youtube (they also pocket and alledged $1 Billion for having Google as default search. Android may be a platform...but google have created a platform within a platform with some incredible first party applications.

I am not saying Google should not be aware of Samsungs dominance in Android phones, but they certainly shouldn't fear them...that would be weird, but Google *never* intended to make money directly from Android..they are just in a cake and eat it situation.

Samdroid (1)

otuz (85014) | about a year ago | (#44388481)

I wouldn't count out the possibility of Samsung's Android diverging from the other Android. That'd leave the rest with whatever Google releases and Samsung providing their own, separate stuff and exclusive third-party apps.

S3 still run android 4.1.2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388493)

They do terrible work with Android actually.

Firstly it is bloated with crapware. TouchWiz, Samsung Apps, Even Antivirus.

Secondly they do terrible job in keeping the software up to date. S3, what used to be their flagship a month ago is still running 4.1.2.

Except its been seen running 4.3 (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44388533)

Re:Except its been seen running 4.3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388551)

A year too late..

Except its not (3, Informative)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44388595)

A year too late..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history [wikipedia.org] A quick look shows 4.1.2 only released October last year. 4.2.2 was released in February.

Samsung plan on skipping a version. I am not sure I am against that strategy, and could see a whole host of reasons why they would do so.

Re:Except its not (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388639)

OK. 9 months to be precise. I don't know about you, but I would be really pissed off if I had an S3 and was forced to wait that long to get all the new goodies.

Re:Except its been seen running 4.3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388573)

*Will* be running.

It *still runs* 4.1.2. Almost a year after 4.2 has been released.

Re:S3 still run android 4.1.2 (0)

tlambert (566799) | about a year ago | (#44388701)

S3, what used to be their flagship a month ago is still running 4.1.2.

This is an incredibly dumb argument.

(1) How does updating a phone you've already paid for to the latest OS sell more phones, if you don't need a new phone to get the latest OS?

(2) How does updating an old phone lock you into the carrier for another 18 months so that the carrier is willing to subsidize the cost, instead of you just letting your updated phone fall off contract, and then go pay-as-you-go, or contract with the cheapest carrier, which isn't the one that subsidized your phone?

(3) How do they monetize to pay the development costs, which might be better spent on newer hardware, since yours already works?

(4) How do they monetize to pay the FCC and other regulatory recertifications, since an SDR is defined as a combination of software and hardware, for certification purposes?

(5) How do they monetize to pay for the the carrier qual process, especially if you won't end up locked back into the carrier?

It's good money after bad, and what's actually pissing you off is that you don't get new software for your old phone, and YOU get to pay the monetization costs, even if they are a break-even, by having a carrier contract with termination fees so that these things get paid, even if you decide you don't like your carrier.

Re:S3 still run android 4.1.2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388783)

It's good money after bad, and what's actually pissing you off is that you don't get new software for your old phone, and YOU get to pay the monetization costs, even if they are a break-even, by having a carrier contract with termination fees so that these things get paid, even if you decide you don't like your carrier.

Actually I am not even an S3 owner, but I find it completely disrespectful for the owners that they don't have the option to upgrade their software to the latest release. Hell, even Apple is better than them at this.

Re:S3 still run android 4.1.2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44389147)

No, you're just a know-nothing tosser.

Ardiod faster (1)

Nicolelife (2983589) | about a year ago | (#44388507)

Samsung is doing a better job of improving Android than Google is. Even though Google shipped hardware with BTLE, Samsung was the first company to offer libraries that actually let you use BTLE with Android! I think at some point soon Samsung will take over where Android is heading, or just veer off with it's own version of Android entirely. And I'm not sure Android will be the worse for it. I've also admired the custom work Amazon has done with Android. They had multi-user on the Fire before Google announced support for it.

Re:Ardiod faster (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388975)

That really worked for Barnes and Noble when they crippled android for the Nook color and tablet.

I still have my bets... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388521)

On microsoft. It's just a bit slow to being widely adopted.

Samsung Microsoft Phones (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44388555)

On microsoft. It's just a bit slow to being widely adopted.

Nokia announced they sell 80% of Windows phones, Which occupy 4% of the Smartphone market. Its probably safe to assume the other 1% is not taken up by samsung Microsoft phones, but even if it is. Its not looking like a viable alternative for Samsung any time soon.

Re:I still have my bets... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388557)

On microsoft. It's just a bit slow to being widely adopted.

Yeah, the Surface 3 tablet will be pretty popular.

Re:I still have my bets... (1)

Zontar The Mindless (9002) | about a year ago | (#44388915)

On microsoft. It's just a bit slow to being widely adopted.

Isn't that a bit like saying the dead parrot is merely tired after a long squawk?

Samsung competing with Google (1)

rossdee (243626) | about a year ago | (#44388539)

Samsung has a search engine?

Yes I know they have an App Store , I don't use it (for my Galaxy Tab 2) or the Google one - I use Amazon since I already have an account there

slashdot (-1, Offtopic)

oldhack (1037484) | about a year ago | (#44388565)

sucks.

Moving Toward Stock Android Not Away (4, Insightful)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44388569)

http://www.androidcentral.com/google-play-edition-htc-one-galaxy-s4 [androidcentral.com] Its interesting that the article points out how Samsung is moving away from Stock Android, but fails to point out that they are offering stock android as an option, because people desire just that, and they are not the only company doing so.

Re:Moving Toward Stock Android Not Away (1)

zyzko (6739) | about a year ago | (#44389089)

It is still Samsung who is providing the updates. Sure, you can unlock the phone more easily and put Cyanogenmod on it, but if you want "supported" OS it is still yet to be seen if Samsung updates the Play Edition or not. But choice is good, from reading reviews; would I buy an "Play edition S4" - probably not (battery life is actually worse, getting rid of TouchWiz doesn't give any real peformance boost, extra camera goodies are gone), and when the manufacturer version reaches it's end-of-life and you have to put Cyanogenmod on it to get to the newest stuff there probably exists an unlock hack for the bootloader anyway. If you wan't to unlock the phone from day 1 of course the story is different.

Why "fix" what isn't broken? (2)

nullchar (446050) | about a year ago | (#44388571)

Why would Samsung want to create it's own appstore when it can leverage Google's to sell more devices?

Re:Why "fix" what isn't broken? (2)

GigaplexNZ (1233886) | about a year ago | (#44388633)

They already have [wikipedia.org] . My S4 came with both Google Play and Samsung Apps. Samsung Apps didn't seem to recognise that I already had some apps installed via Google Play and offered to install them again.

it is possible... (1)

houbou (1097327) | about a year ago | (#44388649)

that Samsung will take it's OS to a place where it will not be mistaken for Android. I like Samsung in that they don't always get it right the first time, but they do try hard. And I've had little gems of products such as the 32GB media player yp-p3 media player which was utterly brillant in every aspect. Superior playback, great support of various audio and video codecs and serious next level audio playback features truly designed for serious musicians.

A disscusion about Samsung in mid-2013 without a (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388829)

word on Tizen.
Allow me to be the first to congratulate you on your victory in this year's talking-out-of-your-ass competition.
Writing off Samsung's business and R&D plans while wording lengthy articles about them, is no doubt an amazing feat of ignorance. The article is dated to the July 25, 2013, and Tizen 2.2 was released 3 days ago coupled with a massive recruitment of new developers. There was also an announcement for a Tizen smartphone release in August just two month ago.

Unbelievable.

Google purchased Motorola for $12.5 billion (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44388833)

Its never gets mentioned but Google get about $700m a year in tax deductions from future profits each year through 2019. It got a further set-top box business to Arris Group for $2.35bn and offloaded Motorola Home getting a 15.7 per cent or so stake in broadband technology firm Arris plus $2.05bn in cash. Some estimates put eh cost to Cost Google as low as $1.5 Billion http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/12/22/did-motorola-mobility-only-cost-google-1-5-billion/ [forbes.com] and it got Motorola's 12.5k issued patents and 7500 patent applications.

No problem, there's Sony and LG... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388859)

...and HTC, and of course Motorola.

The line is full of companies ready to take Samsung's position.
My LG L7 for example, was half the price of my wife's Samsung Galaxy ACE, and a much better phone.

Re:No problem, there's Sony and LG... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44389045)

lol.. nobody besides samsung is making any real money... go look it up.

android is like the kiss of death for most manufacturers

Samsung has progressively molded Android... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44388895)

For that I ditched it.

I could not bare with pre loaded, uninstallable extra shits

My latest is nexus4.

Maybe they thought about it....but not anymore.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44389013)

Samsung is still the heavyweight in Android world, but the other manufacturers are coming back. The latests shipments show Apple barely growing, Samsung nicely growing, and the others (LG, sony, chineses, ...) insanely growing. I think the dices have rolled, Android is the new microsoft for mobiles and Tablet. Apple will hold it's traditional niche (much smaller than today), unless they manage to create a new market, and others will compete on hardware, with android compatibility a prerequesite. Nokia...hum, I hope they have some android secret lab.

Comments do not Agree with figures. (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44389055)

The latests shipments show Apple barely growing, Samsung nicely growing

Not sure where you are getting your figures but neither of these are true IDC http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24239313 [idc.com] show Samsung market share flat for about forever at around 30% with a slight dip this quarter...and Apples market share plummeting to an all time low of 13% even with its better than expected iPhone sales.

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