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Napster Bans Non-Native Clients

michael posted more than 13 years ago | from the you-knew-it-was-coming dept.

Music 164

Anonymous Coward was the first one to write with this tidbit: "Napster is now refusing connections to anyone not running its 2.0 beta 10.3 client. Of course, this stops anyone from using a client not published by Napster. The error message that the Napster server gives you is: "::: server / You must upgrade your client at http://www.napster.com ::: error / You must upgrade your client at http://www.napster.com " The Napster website says: "Beta 10.3 incorporates new file identification technology", and nothing else regarding the matter that I can find. I know most people are using OpenNap and other file sharing services now, but I still like to connect to Napster to get lesser-known (and not banned yet) songs."

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Eat my S#it RIAA (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#123458)

The RIAA's attempts to stop online music trading via (as a start) r00ting Napster, are futile. Just move to another file sharing applications. Great eh? OpenNap iMesh Gnutella etc. etc.. Haven't bought a mainstream CD in 3 years - no big loss considering it's all teeniebopper 'label' bullshit. However, I do regularly buy CD's (online) from lesser known bands (which usually produce the best music), which didn't make it with the big guys (companys), because they don't a) Have tits or b) Look 15.

The end of a legacy (5)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#123460)

Over at slashdot.org (http://www.slashdot.org) the last ever article on the rapidly dying "Napster" music service was posted today.

News that Napster had started banning all non Napster clients was greeted with lacklustre response by readers prompting Slashdot to announce they will in future ignore any story submitions with the word Napster in it.

"We'd been planning on doing this for quite some time" CmdrTaco told Slashdot.

"When theres only 5000 users left on Napster they are obviously going to be people whose IE home page is http://www.napster.com, have a 64 x 64 shortcut to napster on their Windows desktop, and have to phone up AOL technical support every time they need to search for a song in order to get the l33t version of the name to type in. These obviously aren't the sort of people who read Slashdot"

When asked "What about the first posters?" CmdrTaco had no reply.

Re:GNapster... (2)

HeUnique (187) | more than 13 years ago | (#123461)

Yes, it stops GNapster, Knapster, nap, webnap...

Re:And the problem is? (2)

Alan (347) | more than 13 years ago | (#123462)

IMHO they are doing a Xerox PARC, snatching defeat from the hands of victory. They had millions of people on their servers, downloading songs, and due to their (and the RIAAs) stupidity and incompetance, now they have a few thousand, and very few songs. Bands in China LOVE napster, and encouraging pirating of songs, except over there they call it "sharing". See, they make money off of concerts, and the more people who listen to your music, the more people will like you. If I'm forced to pay $20 for something I may or may not like, chances are I'm not going to put out the money.

Actually, 10.*.*.* and 192.168.*.* addresses work (1)

fialar (1545) | more than 13 years ago | (#123464)

I am on a 192.168.*.* address behind my firewall and I am uploading and downloading files to/from people when using LimeWire [limewire.com] .

fialar

How is this different from on-line games? (2)

Max Hyre (1974) | more than 13 years ago | (#123465)

[I've never used Napster, so apply the appropriate amount of salt.]

Assuming anyone gives enough of a damn, how could Napster effectively enforce this? If online-game cheaters can reverse engineer the protocol, despite the best efforts of the games' originators, how is the Napster protocol any different?

The worst that might be called for would be to download the officially-blessed code, root around in it for the key to its digital signature, or perhaps send a hash of a bit of the original binary, and mimic it in your favorite flavor of deprecated client. Napster can't win, they can only get momentary advantages.

I can see how many would consider this more effort than it's worth, but there must be a number of hackers for whom this is just an interesting challenge.

Re:Luckily, there are alternatives... (1)

Chainsaw (2302) | more than 13 years ago | (#123466)

Yep, AudioGalaxy sure rocks. The featured artists section is good, and has introduced me to a few bands I had never heard of.

Re:GNapster... (1)

richieb (3277) | more than 13 years ago | (#123467)

Yes it does. Say hello to OpenNap....

Re:And the problem is? (2)

Genom (3868) | more than 13 years ago | (#123468)

Poorly-thought-out-analogy:

"These radio staions broadcast by airmusic inc. are only avaiilable in a Ford (tm) car, truck, minivan, or suv with a Ford (tm) factory-installed stereo. Want to listen to them? Go buy a Ford."

Seems wrong, somehow...but yes, it's well within their rights to do so.

Re:Looks like a good time to.... (2)

Genom (3868) | more than 13 years ago | (#123469)

Hrmm...how long till those of us on a linux/BSD OS can connect up to this? Someone's got to be reverse-engineering ithe protocol...

OTOH, Gnutella is alive and well, despite it's quirks - and Freenet is starting to get usable. =)

Re:Looks like a good time to.... (1)

ZxCv (6138) | more than 13 years ago | (#123470)

I'd definitely agree with this... I've been using it for a couple months now and I can't think of anything I haven't been able to find on there. Even better, it has video and image search just like Scour did plus a couple other categories (documents and software i think).

Re:That's not the issue (1)

ZxCv (6138) | more than 13 years ago | (#123471)

Who's to say the filtering isn't being done client-side? It would make sense if the filtering component was small/simple enough to include with each client. Puts all the load of fingerprinting and filtering all the songs on the client, not only reducing the workload of the server but also the bandwidth used between the client and server. I have no idea how exactly they're doing the filtering. But it would certainly make sense to me to do it at the client level...

Re:Napster Forgot Meaning of "Beta" (1)

ZxCv (6138) | more than 13 years ago | (#123472)

I think someone did... thats why Napster has perpetually been in beta (Beta 10.3? geeezus). at least they've recognized all this time that their software was barely beta quality and honestly kept calling it that, instead of rushing that sub-par quality software out as a "release" version...

Does the new client auto-upgrade itself? (2)

hatless (8275) | more than 13 years ago | (#123474)

Since Napster is taking the big leap, shedding a huge number of users by forcing all of them to download a new client, I'd hope for their sake that they made this the last download its users ever need.

Does this new version have a self-updating feature like Windows RealPlayer and AIM do? As it is, by not putting in such functionality much sooner, they've diminished the value of their one real asset: the size of their user base. If they don't have it this time, they're just pathetic.

Any meta-searching alternatives? (2)

dschuetz (10924) | more than 13 years ago | (#123476)

Even better than Kazaa is Morpheus (www.musiccity.com), with the same system as Kazaa, but a whole helluva lot more files online. I've been able to find all but two tracks from an obscure 60's folk LP that's sitting, scratched, somewhere in my mom's basement.

What I'd still like to see is more meta-searching capabilities in clients. Kazaa and MusicCity both seem to be the same software, but different communites (Kazaa found 12 "New Christy Minstrels" songs, Morpheus found 58). Why can't they search one another? What about plugging into OpenNap servers? And what about searching multiple OpenNap servers at once? It's frustrating to have to choose between one or another system, and I'm not about to run a search on Morpheus, then Aimster, then Kazaa, then two or three different OpenNap servers...to say nothing about connecting into one of the many gnutella nets...

Any solutions out there for that?

Yes, and so can the consumers (3)

FreeUser (11483) | more than 13 years ago | (#123477)

Yes, Napster can do what it likes with their servers, up to and including actions like this which make the service vastly less useful to their customers, and unusable by anyone using a real OS.[1]

What you imply in your statement (however inadvertantly) is that, because Napster may do what they like with their own servers, their customers should not speak up when they do something those customers don't like. Nothing could be farther from the truth. One of the key ingredients to a healthy and successful free market is customer awareness, and the ability of consumers, and groups of consumers, to share their experiences and complaints with one another and to find a competing product when the service they are getting is of poor quality, overpriced, or has other drawbacks (environmentally unfriendly, invades ones privacy, whatever).

Consumers informing one another that a particular product or service sucks, and letting each other know about better alternatives ... kind of like, no, exactly what is happening here.

[1](Gratuitious anti-MS Jab as counterpoint to the recent plethora of gratuitious pro-MS Jabs at Free Software): Real Os defined to be one not written or sold by Microsoft.

Re:Any meta-searching alternatives? (1)

ethereal (13958) | more than 13 years ago | (#123478)

Even better than Kazaa is Morpheus (www.musiccity.com), ...

Yes, because www.morpheus.com would have been so much more difficult to remember. On the other hand, maybe I should be happy any time a chance to fill up the 'net namespace is missed. I know I cheer inside everytime I see www.sony.com/somemovie rather than www.somemovie.com.

Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!

the real deal: (4)

ethereal (13958) | more than 13 years ago | (#123479)

According to this story at news.com [cnet.com] , this is to comply with RIAA-imposed filtering criteria. They aren't even going to allow older versions of their Napster client, so you know other peoples' are out the door.

Favorite quote: " This means songs that aren't on the record companies' list will have to trickle back into circulation a little at a time as Napster ascertains that they are or aren't on the must-block list." So essentially the RIAA has won the real war here - everything not from the RIAA has been removed and presumed guilty until proven innocent. Maybe Napster was a great exposure space for indie musicians before (personally, I doubt it) but it sure isn't now.

Caution: contents may be quarrelsome and meticulous!

Inevitable, but only fair (1)

rleyton (14248) | more than 13 years ago | (#123481)

Surely this was inevitable, with the court rulings raining down on Napster, and it signing deals with various companies and organisations [bbc.co.uk] .

The company has to ensure it's following the court rulings, and letting any client connect exposes it to the very abuse it's been charged with encouraging.

It has banned it's own clients too (1)

stx23 (14942) | more than 13 years ago | (#123482)

I still use Beta 6 and cannot get on Napster now, but I start up Napigator and choose a server from there, double click and I'm connected. Not being able to get on the Napster network is no great loss, it has been useless for months.

And the problem is? (3)

mindstrm (20013) | more than 13 years ago | (#123487)

It's napster's servers.. they can do whatever they want.

Napster Forgot Meaning of "Beta" (1)

SEWilco (27983) | more than 13 years ago | (#123489)

Someone should remind Napster of the difference between "Beta" and "Production" quality.

Re:Luckily, there are alternatives... (2)

Khalid (31037) | more than 13 years ago | (#123491)

The best place I have discovered so far, to download MP3; is audiogalaxy.com. It's web based, You can resume stoped download too. Very easy to use. You can can easily discover new artists too.

Re:And the problem is? (2)

Patman (32745) | more than 13 years ago | (#123493)

Yes they can. However this doesn't justifie it as right. This means
that some people using Linux or any other OS that they don't support
will not be able to use their service.


And again, so what? There's nothing inherently wrong with that ideal.

If Napster, or Microsoft, or Bob's House of Software doesn't release versions of software for Linux, then so be it. That's their call, not yours.
If they also decide that you can only access their service using their client, then there is also nothing wrong with that.
They have a complete right to do that.

There are good points and bad points to any OS. One of the negatives for Linux is no Napster. That's Napster's call, and it's completely right.

Re:Eat my S#it RIAA (1)

Foxman98 (37487) | more than 13 years ago | (#123494)

Ummm... let's see....

Tool - Lateralus is an awesome cd. As is....
Radiohead's Kid A. As is.... Linkin Park's Hybrid Theory. I could go on and on. The thing is, I agree that there is a *lot* of crap out there, but don't forget about the few good bands left who make music for the sake of making music, not the money.

Easy workaround (2)

dmaxwell (43234) | more than 13 years ago | (#123497)

31337songtitle.gz.mp3 After download, it will be necessary to transpose the .gz and .mp3 extenders then gunzip the resulting 31337songtitle.mp3.gz. Let's see how the acoustic fingerprint thingy likes that.

Re:It has banned it's own clients too (1)

greenrd (47933) | more than 13 years ago | (#123499)

Er... It's more likely that your ISP has banned it. Or Napster had a server outage when you tried to connect.

Re:It has banned it's own clients too (1)

greenrd (47933) | more than 13 years ago | (#123500)

Shit, ignore that. I didn't read the damn article.

So what, now you just go someplace else.. (2)

xtal (49134) | more than 13 years ago | (#123501)

Whoop-de-do. Has the demise of napster made a dent in file sharing? Nope. People just use ICQ/AIM or any number of other alternatives. (www.musiccity.com). Rather than have the problem in one, great big centralized location where the record industry could reap a fortune from it, they've thrown water in the oil fire and now it's everywhere. Great long-range thinking, guys.

The fight wasn't about file sharing, anyhow. The music industry makes their money of prepackaged crap that the kiddies buy and the marketting therefrom. They were worried napster could spawn a indy revolution with the illegal file trading as the catalyst, and they brought the smackdown.

What do I care, anyway - I'm CANADIAN, and I can copy music for MY OWN USE, LEGALLY. Hahaha. Go CDR levy. There's one fact the RIAA and napster aren't spreading around.. but they got their little levy.

Re:And the problem is? (1)

Rude Turnip (49495) | more than 13 years ago | (#123502)

I think the Communications Act of 1934 gives me the right to tune into any sort of radio transmission. The above analogy is poor because in the case of radio, the resources used to transmit the signal do not increase if more people listen. You're not really creating a link to the radio station. The signal is passive. In the case of an AIM server or Napster, you must actively create a connection, which uses network and computing resources.

Re:And the problem is? (2)

interiot (50685) | more than 13 years ago | (#123503)

I don't think anyone is arguing that they can't be allowed to do this. I think it's more a question of "should", or, at the least, that it seems to go against our community's acceptable practices.

For me, this is another example of a company which ignores their users and instead strongarms them into doing what the company wants. Companies don't HAVE to act like this-- there are many who don't and still flourish. It's just more encouragement to develop open-sourced hands-off alternatives.
--

stop (5)

British (51765) | more than 13 years ago | (#123504)

I stopped using Napster when the most popular song online(and the only one was) was by some band called "No", with their hit single "Matching Files Found!"

Get out of here, please (1)

Old Wolf (56093) | more than 13 years ago | (#123505)

This is shameful. Napster should shut itself down while it still has a shred of dignity, before it becomes a free marketing tool for the RIAA.

Some people think Shawn Fanning's greatest masterwork was creating Napster; in fact it was getting the hell out of there before it came to this.

Wrong error (5)

dimator (71399) | more than 13 years ago | (#123508)

The error message that the Napster server gives you is: "::: server / You must upgrade your client at http://www.napster.com ::: error / You must upgrade your client at http://www.napster.com"

Actually, this is not true. I just tried it, and the actual error message is:

::: server / Why are you still using this service? Napster officially sucks.

---

Re:Luckily, there are alternatives... (1)

JWW (79176) | more than 13 years ago | (#123512)

How well does audiogalaxy's Linux client work. I have had problems getting it to work in the past.

Re:Any meta-searching alternatives? (1)

mgblst (80109) | more than 13 years ago | (#123513)

morhpeus sucks dogs balls... it is soooo slow. Wtf did they write it in, JAVA... unbelievable

alternative (2)

lovebyte (81275) | more than 13 years ago | (#123514)

Some posts mention alternatives to Napster, but I have not seen this one: http://www.inoize.com/ [inoize.com] .
I admit I haven't tried it myself, but it seems it's a P2P with a Windoze AND Linux client. Anyone has tried it?

OpenNap servers.. (1)

MicroBerto (91055) | more than 13 years ago | (#123520)

Ever since all of those great opennap servers of MusicCity [musiccity.com] switched to their own Morpheus client, my Gnapster program has seemed next to worthless (and I haven't tried it for a bit...)

Are there any good opennap networks up now? Is anything being done?

Mike Roberto
- GAIM: MicroBerto

Let's just face it! (4)

OakLEE (91103) | more than 13 years ago | (#123522)

Let's just face it, your grandaddy's Napster is long gone. Even though most of you refuse to acknowledge it or worse even try to justify it, we all know that most of what we downloaded off of Napster was stuff that we hadn't bought and didn't own the rights to. Now I know some of you went out and bought whatever your downloaded, or were meerly "sampling" the music (whatever the hell that means), but personally I gave up any hope of finding anything once I started having to type in "1337" phrases like "|24d10h34d", "J1/\/\/\/\y h3ndr1X" and "0utk4$t" to get past the filtering software. It was a good while it lasted but I think we can finally declare Napster dead! Actually we could have done when the report about it only having 5000 users sharing 18 gigs of music came out, but the prophecy of Napster being the sacrificial lamb that many of us secretly new it would has come true. I say just cut your losses, and move on to programs like AudioGalaxy, Morpheus, whatever soots your needs. When getting stuff off of the Gnuetella is easier then getting the same stuff off of Napster, you know the program is doomed.

Just my 2 cents, sorry for the cyncism, but we need to face the truth here.

___________________________

GNapster... (1)

drnomad (99183) | more than 13 years ago | (#123523)

Quote:

Of course, this stops anyone from using a client not published by Napster.

Uhm, does this stop GNapster as well? Gotta try this at home...
--

This is partly a good thing (2)

Sc00ter (99550) | more than 13 years ago | (#123524)

The reason they're going with the new version and the new way to identify songs is so they can offer more songs on the service again.
--

Re:Napster sux anyway (post != flamebait) (2)

Sc00ter (99550) | more than 13 years ago | (#123525)

I've had mixed success with Gnutella.. The biggest problem is that it doesn't show you the bitrate that the mp3 was encoded at.. I tend to like mine at 192 or higher, most of what I pull from Gnutella is 128. The other thing is, with a large number of clients (lime wire being the biggest problem) will give you results with the sharing IP as a 10net or 192.168net address.. these are not routable on the net, so you can't even get files from them.

Also, I'm not sure if this is a problem with just this program, but the same has happened with other.. When using bear share and I search for say "Pi Soundtrack" I get results for anything with either of those words rather then the google type of results matching that exactly.


--

Re:stop (1)

jonnyq (103252) | more than 13 years ago | (#123526)

I stopped using Napster when the most popular song online(and the only one was) was by some band called "No", with their hit single "Matching Files Found!"

See, there is where you are wrong. "No" is not popular, they are just the first in the new napster strategy of selling high search results. This is clearly shown by their strong showing regardless of what your search criteria are.

Re:Spying clients also blocked? (2)

BradleyUffner (103496) | more than 13 years ago | (#123527)

I'm sure is the RIAA asked Napster to create a "spying client" for them it would be done. It shouldn't be too hard for them to add another client to the "approved" list that the server will accept.
=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\= \=\=\=\=\

Re:And the problem is? (1)

Vanders (110092) | more than 13 years ago | (#123528)

This means that some people using Linux or any other OS that they don't support, will not be able to use their service.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. It wont be long until Napsters new "partners" decide that WMA with SDMI protected content is better than those MP3's anyway, and then you'll have to use Windows with Windows Media Player and Windows Secure Audio Path to listen to any songs you might have been able to download anyway.

Expect an announcment sometime next year, after XP has been around for a month or two. Until then, why not use something other than Napster?

Right vs Smart (2)

B'Trey (111263) | more than 13 years ago | (#123529)

Certainly, Napster CAN do this. I haven't seen anyone saying that they can't do this, that it should be illegal, that they should be sued, etc. But just as Napster can do what they want, we can do what we want too. And that includes sitting around bitching about Napster's poor decision making or even organizing a boycott of Napster. No one is questioning their right to make the decision; we're discussing the intelligence (or lack thereof) of the choice.

R.I.P. Napster (2)

Kwelstr (114389) | more than 13 years ago | (#123531)

This is NOT the same free trading Napster I knwe.

R.I.P. Napster. Have fun RIIA.

So, (2)

pallex (126468) | more than 13 years ago | (#123537)

The error message that the Napster server gives you is: "::: server / You must upgrade your client at http://www.napster.com ::: error / You must upgrade your client at http://www.napster.com"

you`re saying theres an error in the error?

Re:hasn't the napster user base already been /2 ? (1)

dpoulson (132871) | more than 13 years ago | (#123538)

All the more bandwidth for p0rn! *8-)

Looks like a good time to.... (2)

flirzan (133046) | more than 13 years ago | (#123539)

start using Morpheus [musiccity.com] or edonkey2000 [edonkey2000.com] . These networks are a little underpopulated now, but they seem to be gaining userbase. Both support the ability to download one file from many people at the same time, I've seen aggregates of 130k/s downloading from 5 different users. Steal your music just a little bit faster.

Re:Let's just face it! (1)

aozilla (133143) | more than 13 years ago | (#123540)

Why is Gnutella doomed? Feel free to post AC if you are afraid of getting voted down offtopic.

What about bootlegs? (2)

aozilla (133143) | more than 13 years ago | (#123541)

What I really wonder is if this means that bootlegs will now be resurrected on the napster system, since they are generally not copyrighted by the Record company, but by the artist. Many artists allow bootlegs to be freely distributed. Personally, that's the only reason I used napster in the first place, was for the bootlegs which I couldn't buy in the stores anyway.

like AIM/oscar (2)

characterZer0 (138196) | more than 13 years ago | (#123542)

Isn't this something like AIM's authentication for the oscar protocol? Many groups (trillian [trillian.cc] , jabber [jabber.org] , gaim [sourceforge.net] ) have found ways around that. Is it conceivable to trick the Napster servers in a similar way? Not that anyone who would bother with CVS nightlies hasn't already found a better alternative.

Re:And the problem is? (1)

Andrewkov (140579) | more than 13 years ago | (#123545)

Uh, yes, they do have to act like this, at least according to the court of law.

---

Re:Looks like a good time to.... (3)

Sebastard (142754) | more than 13 years ago | (#123548)

How can you call Morpheus under-populated?

Last time I logged in:

231,995 users online, sharing 20,357,000 files (91,722.0 GB).

I've been using it for a few weeks now, and while it has problems and little annoyances, it's by far the best P2P client I've found (for Windows only though).

Goodbye Napster - we hardly knew ya. (2)

Picass0 (147474) | more than 13 years ago | (#123550)

It's Opennap and mIRC for me now.

One good thing (1)

juha0 (148119) | more than 13 years ago | (#123551)

No more those only search and download clients which don't share anything. Though with napster scaling is not a problem at the moment.

Re:Get a real OS! (1)

ASyndicate (159990) | more than 13 years ago | (#123553)

I think he was trying to be funny.. Failed attempt

The "New" file identification tech... (3)

Rackemup (160230) | more than 13 years ago | (#123554)

From what I understand, the new "file identification technology" they're using is the acoustic sampling methods which ID a song despite how the file is named.

Apparently they take random samples of files shared by users. The server requests an acoustic fingerprint for a song shared by a user, your software takes the fingerprint and sends it back (without your control) and the pattern is compared or added to their database.

That means that renaming Metallica songs to "Metalica" wont have any effect since it's using the fingerprint and not the actual file name to ID the song.

As far as I'm concerned Napster has been neutered and it's only good for finding music by non-mainstream bands now. I've actually found a few good songs through their "discover" artists tab, but havent been able to find some songs to sample from a new CD by a band that I actually like.

I'll probably still use Napster to search through occasionally, but it's back to IRC for my normal music downloading. It may not be as pretty but it gets results.

Re:Napster sux anyway (post != flamebait) (5)

Skuto (171945) | more than 13 years ago | (#123556)

>The other thing is, with a large number of
>clients (lime wire being the biggest problem)
>will give you results with the sharing IP as a
>10net or 192.168net address.. these are not
>routable on the net, so you can't even get files
>from them.

They are not routable on the net, but they _are_
routable on gnutella via push messages. Those
addresses basically mean that the client is
behind a firewall and cannot accept connections,
but it _can_ send you the file.

If such a client generates a hit on a search and
sends it result back all clients on the path
between that client and the originator of the
search keep routing information for the 10.x or
192.x address.

If the searcher requests the file it generates
a push message that is sent along the path the
hit came from.

The reason why the 10.x or 192.x addresses are so
unreliable is that many old clients handle them
wrong. If one of those is along the path you
will never get the file, but if all clients along
the path are ok, 10.x/192.x addresses work just
as fine as any other.

The reason why you percieve limewire as more
prone to this prolem is that it is less picky
in allowing connections from older clients, and
hence theres more chance that a bad client is
inbetween a limewire client and yours. But there
is nothing wrong with the limewire client itself.

--
GCP

Re:Spying clients also blocked? (1)

richie123 (180501) | more than 13 years ago | (#123559)

I don't think so, all they had to do was do a search an copy and paste the ip address of the people with matalica mp3's to create a list. Matalica can easily afford to pay someone to do it for them.

Re:WAKE UP MODERATORS! (1)

TheOutlawTorn (192318) | more than 13 years ago | (#123565)

The parent post is not off topic. Shawn Fanning is the founder of Napster. That makes the above post either a poor attempt at humour, or flamebait or a troll.

I personally would consider my post the former, as I am not trolling (defined as:"a provocative posting to a newsgroup intended to produce a large volume of frivolous responses"). I see nothing provocative about my posting, beyond the obvious piss-poor quality of my "humor". Thanks for your time

For Sale... (5)

TheOutlawTorn (192318) | more than 13 years ago | (#123566)

One Ferrari GT, slightly used, under 30,000 miles, runs great. Contact Shawn Fanning at
888-555-1212
wonderboy@corpseofnapster.com

Re:The "New" file identification tech... (3)

Magius_AR (198796) | more than 13 years ago | (#123568)

How could acoustic fingerprinting work?

All you'd have to do is record at a different bitrate or normalize the song differently, or change pitches slightly, and it would no longer match.

I find it hard to believe they can account for all these things. Not to mention they'd have to scan the entire song, because of differing file lengths, they couldn't simply grep out a specific "time-slice" of info. That'd be murder on mem/cpu processing time.

Magius_AR

Two words.... (2)

jchristopher (198929) | more than 13 years ago | (#123569)

Audio Galaxy. http://www.audiogalaxy.com

Hex editing (1)

el_nino-2000 (200437) | more than 13 years ago | (#123570)

If they're putting even MORE restrictions on Napster, would hex editing the napster.exe to change the version number of older clients work? I feel they've got enough restrictions as it is already.

Re:The end of a legacy (3)

11223 (201561) | more than 13 years ago | (#123571)

Wow! A comment from the article author! How rare!

Oh, wait. Nevermind...

Mac client (5)

nerk88 (204690) | more than 13 years ago | (#123573)

It also means those on Macs can't connect at all. I just downloaded the latest Mac beta and it still tells me to upgrade. Its a pity that they did not make new clients ore widely available before changing the service. This will only make fewer people use it.

Re:This is partly a good thing (1)

ewolfr (209134) | more than 13 years ago | (#123574)

Bzzzt, the reason their doing it, and they say so right on the website, is to further comply with the court order. And so they can try and save their asses to launch the pay service. Which of course will be a huge failure.

Re:And the problem is? (1)

stille (213453) | more than 13 years ago | (#123575)

It's napster's servers.. they can do whatever they want.

Yes they can. However this doesn't justifie it as right. This means that some people using Linux or any other OS that they don't support, will not be able to use their service.

This will mean that when I want to use napster I will have to reboot my computer to windows, download the song that I want. And then reboot again. As if there weren't enough things that people not wunning MS Windows can't enjoy already.

So in other words: This sucks! Hope the gnapster hackers can do something about this as soon as possible.

Re:Any meta-searching alternatives? (1)

damiangerous (218679) | more than 13 years ago | (#123578)

Kazaa and MusicCity both seem to be the same software, but different communites (Kazaa found 12 "New Christy Minstrels" songs, Morpheus found 58).

I think they are connected. I use Morpheus and I see users "@Kazaa" all the time.

Spying clients also blocked? (5)

vitesse (218912) | more than 13 years ago | (#123580)

Presumably this also means that custom clients written to track who is sharing what and locate copyright violations will also be unable to connect. Just think - if Napster had forced client authentication from the start, it would have been very difficult for eg Metallica to generate a huge list of everyone sharing their songs.

oh no! (1)

Jacek Poplawski (223457) | more than 13 years ago | (#123581)

Oh no! They killed Napster! They bastards!
I guess how opensource napster-clients developers feels now :-(
Of course we can still connect to open-nap servers, but I think it's really time for everyone to move. Audiogalaxy is not opensource, kaaza is even not for Linux, but there is Gnutella, and quite good MojoNation (still not so many files - so please join it!).

AudioGalaxy (3)

jabber01 (225154) | more than 13 years ago | (#123582)

www.audiogalaxy.com

The REAL jabber has the /. user id: 13196

Re:try these (2)

unformed (225214) | more than 13 years ago | (#123583)

meant to say: Those are better, the "new blood"

try these (4)

unformed (225214) | more than 13 years ago | (#123584)

songspy.com
freenet.sourceforge.net
winmx.com
gnutella.wego.com/

those

Re:R.I.P. Napster (1)

Drakantus (226374) | more than 13 years ago | (#123587)

The "old napster" is now morpheus. Windows only, but so was the original napster. Much faster than gnutella.

http://www.musiccity.com/en/frameset_web_fl_teal .h tml

Just Use Morpheus Instead (2)

Drakantus (226374) | more than 13 years ago | (#123590)

Just like the old napster, only better.

-Download Music, Images, Video, Whatever

-Good search engine, actually tells you the bitrate on mp3s for example

-Download from multiple sources- not only makes things faster, but if one guy you are downloading a 600MB divx from loses his connection right before you finish, you can just get the last 5MB from someone else

-Yeah it's windows only so far, but wasn't the original napster? Give it some time I'm sure someone will come up with a linux client.

http://www.musiccity.com/en/frameset_web_fl_teal .h tml

So why can't AOL do the same with AIM? (1)

Shivetya (243324) | more than 13 years ago | (#123592)

I would like to know why /. editors seem to think its a crime or a similar atrocity for companines to restrict how you connect to their service?

Honestly, why is it wrong to do so? Why not complain about how you receive satellite (oops, thats done here to eh?), cable, electricity, or water?

The /. editors need to realize that just as much as you don't like it doesn't mean its wrong. It is THEIR right to offer a product as they see fit, and in doing so that means they can control who can use it and how.

hasn't the napster user base already been /2 ? (1)

swagr (244747) | more than 13 years ago | (#123593)

And now "average joe" (or my parents) who's "computer buddy" (me) installed Napster will see this and also stop using Napster. Think their user base will shrink by 50% again?

Possible Work Around (3)

Captain_Frisk (248297) | more than 13 years ago | (#123595)

Would it be possible to fudge it. Everytime the server asks for a watermark, couldn't you just send the same bogus watermark every time? This would let all of your songs show up on the network. All someone needs to do is figure out the protocol, and go for it.

All of this is academic however, cause napster sucks, and its all about the audiogalaxy.

Captain_Frisk

Re:try these (1)

HairyBN (252481) | more than 13 years ago | (#123596)

Better yet flipr.com...

Re:So why can't AOL do the same with AIM? (2)

TGK (262438) | more than 13 years ago | (#123597)

It's posts like this that make me want to cry. You sir, have completely missed the point. The point is not that /.['s] editors... think its a crime... for companies to restrict how you connect but that this move by napster effectivly bans all Linux users because all Linux clients for the service are unofficial ones. Consequently, /. has chosen to post this article informing its heavily Linux dependent userbase of this development.

And frankly, there are a large number of people in Cal. complaining about how they receive electricity, and a large number in Florida who were (a few months ago) complaining about how they received water (or the lack there of).

Last point. No one said it was -wrong-. Many people called it stupid, irritating, obnoxious, and even counter productive. No it's not illegal. But it certainly alienates a large portion of their potential user base... that would make it unwise.

This has been another useless post from....

Napster vs OpenNap (1)

wroot (264810) | more than 13 years ago | (#123598)

There's no reason to prefer Napster servers to OpenNap ones. Best OpenNap servers often have around 3000 users connected. Same goes for Napster servers. The only difference is Napster filters *everything*. Try entering the most harmless keywords.

Wroot

Re:And the problem is? (2)

KupekKupoppo (266229) | more than 13 years ago | (#123599)

According to you, the company shouldn't be able to strongarm itself into doing what the company wants. That is either nonsense, or absolutely true. One can't strongarm one's self.

In contrast to your argument, there are NO companies that come to mind that have gone through the excessive amount of litigation that Napster has and still have the opportunity to even exist. The court told Napster that, essentially, everything it was doing was illegal.

Napster's only option is to pull a 180 and hope for the best. If that involves forcing people to use their client, then that's what they have to do. Just because the greater majority of the Internet-wielding population wants to be able to illegally (at present, because the courts have said it is so) trade mp3's, doesn't make it legal.

Stop trying to get karma for another "Oh my God, they killed Linux!" argument. Yes, Slashdot is a pro-Linux user base. But it's irrelevant to the discussion. Your rights are not being trampled. Linus, RMS, Alan Cox, and all your Linux friends will survive this without discomfort. All this means is Napster doesn't want to provide a service anymore, and as such, shouldn't have to.

Open-source is great. I've worked on a number of different open-source GPL (and other licensed) projects. But it's IRRELEVANT to the story about Napster forcing you to use their client. If you don't, they get sued and die. So leave Napster, or quit whining.

</RANT>

Re:Routing 101 (1)

EllisDees (268037) | more than 13 years ago | (#123600)

The client identifies itself to the gnutella network by ip address. If the client is able to connect at all, it means that it is able to make some path through the firewall. Normally, the address supplied is used for connecting and downloading directly. However, if the ip is in a reserved range, a push request is sent back along the path the response came from, and a connection is initiated from within the private network.

Can the new client connect to Opennap server? (1)

glrotate (300695) | more than 13 years ago | (#123601)

I haven't had any luck.

It's called NAT (1)

why-is-it (318134) | more than 13 years ago | (#123602)

"I am on a 192.168.*.* address behind my firewall and I am uploading and downloading files to/from people when using LimeWire."

Since 192.168.x.x does _not_ route, I can only assume that your firewall translates the addresses on the internal network to a routable address. I suspect that from the non-secure side of your firewall, outbound requests do not show the source address as being from the 192.168 network otherwise you would never get any packets back in response...

Routing 101 (1)

why-is-it (318134) | more than 13 years ago | (#123603)

"If such a client generates a hit on a search and
sends it result back all clients on the path
between that client and the originator of the
search keep routing information for the 10.x or
192.x address."

Perhaps not...

The key point is that the 10.x.x.x and 192.168.x.x networks are non-routable. If I plugged into a backbone network and used a non-routable source IP, I could transmit packets, but I would not get any back, because the intermediate routers would not know where to direct packets with a destination address that does not route.

A routing table does not contain a list of all the intermediate hops between the address of the router and the destination. There is a default route and possibly some static routes.

So unless gnutella creates LOTS of static routes in each client, I am not sure how this could work.

what about bookster? (1)

ballzhey (321167) | more than 13 years ago | (#123604)

My friend and i tried to start bookster to make people smart but we got shut down. Plus it was hard scanning all those pages without mechanization. Also, once we converted the scans to txt, we couldn't find a decent(like james earl jones) txt to speech app to make a mp3 of the book. But it was fun listening to The Lord of the Flies in my car.

That's not the issue (1)

OpenSourced (323149) | more than 13 years ago | (#123605)

I guess everybody knows that Napster is, if not dead, for all purposes, smelling funny, as somebody pointed me some days ago about Unix. But for me that's not the point.

I mean, IMHO Napster was a company that struck it dead on quite by chance. They never had a clear strategy, never a business plan, never cared a whiff for their "clients". When faced with a lawsuit, they declined to make an issue of "fair use" and fight on those terms. They chose the lame avenue of procrastinating, feet shuffling and finger-pointing that could do nobody no good. They were never champions of anything, really.

Now they see the boat sinking, and resort to the AOL-games of "change-my-client". That's, of course, not for complying with the court order, as has been suggested here. The filtering is all server-side. Well, it's their servers, but they would be better off, IMHO, trying to develop a better client themselves and adding some value to the service, before it's too late and they are sunk for good.

--

Re:Eat my S#it RIAA (1)

Computer! (412422) | more than 13 years ago | (#123606)

Aside from Radiohead, major-label music is terrible. If you think Tool is great, there's about 30 bands that sound just like them, and have been doing so for years before Tool was out. Linkin Park, same thing. Check out Refused, or Helmet, or Shellac. And those are just the larger indie acts. If major-label music dropped off the face of the earth, you'd never even notice, except that radio would actually be exciting for a change. Check out www.insound.com, which is the 5hit.

files (1)

sehryan (412731) | more than 13 years ago | (#123607)

the reason they want you to update is because they are now only blocking files they have been told to block with the new client. so actually there are more files online now than there were

of course, no one really uses napster anymore, so its sort of moot and definately overdue.
-
sean

Luckily, there are alternatives... (4)

PARENA (413947) | more than 13 years ago | (#123608)

www.kazaa.com is a great place to find your illegal mp3's. Disable your cookies and you don't even need to download their software (Win only sucks). :)

Napster sux anyway (post != flamebait) (1)

chrisvdp74656 (448900) | more than 13 years ago | (#123609)

Gnutella is way better, AND has a native linux browser. its file sharing, not just music sharing.
http://www.gnutelliums.com [gnutelliums.com]

-==-
We are Microsoft. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

Re:And the problem is? (1)

night_flyer (453866) | more than 13 years ago | (#123611)

It may be Napster's servers, but they are getting the files from the USERS machines...

dont matter, havent used Napster in about 6 months, been using Limewire [limewire.com] ... much better Gnutella client (than Bearshare)... last night there were 41 terrabytes of info on the network...

as for the RIAA... sorry, I dont buy new anymore... "what's this a Metallica CD at the pawnshop for $3.00".

Last year (while using Napster) I BOUGHT 50 NEW CDs...this year... 3

_______________________

Re:the real deal: (1)

night_flyer (453866) | more than 13 years ago | (#123612)

they may have won the battle but they sure as hell didnt win the war... how many MORE file sharing programs and protocals are out there now?

_______________________

Well... (2)

Purple_Walrus (457070) | more than 13 years ago | (#123613)

...isn't there a way to make the client's version response be what the server wants sit to be if you're running an open source client?
---

Re:try these (1)

seinman (463076) | more than 13 years ago | (#123618)

has anywone tried www.audiogalaxy.com yet? it has a lot of the features that napster SHOULD have had.

What we need? (2)

roxytheman (463262) | more than 13 years ago | (#123619)

I think what we need now that all the different MP3-searching (and other files like video) systems are booming, why not make something like a portal to all of them (like jabber is a portal to all the IM servers)? It should be modular so it was easy to add more server-protocols.

The all do approximately the same thing anyway... why not make them all accessible at once!?

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