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Nokia Lumia 1020 Video and Photo Shoot Preview

samzenpus posted about a year ago | from the what's-the-word dept.

Technology 178

MojoKid writes "Nokia, perhaps more-so than any other smartphone manufacturer in the game right now, needed to find a way to make something special. The new Nokia Lumia 1020, though it sports essentially the same internals and display as Nokia's Lumia 920, most definitely is different, and perhaps even an attractive alternative, depending on your specific needs. 41 megapixels of resolution, floating image stabilization and a powerful camera app to back it up, will make the Lumia 1020 pretty 'special' to some people, some of whom might be considering a Windows Phone for the first time as a result. Initial impressions of the device and its camera performance, show Nokia's new flagship device does shoot impressive still images and video, thanks in part to the Lumia 1020's image sensor and stabilization features. Nokia's Pro Cam app is comprised of a slick dial interface that offers virtually all of the controls you'd find in a DSLR camera. From White Balance, to ISO, Focus, Exposure and Flash Control, it's all in there. When you snap a picture, the 1020's camera grabs two versions of the shot; a large full resolution (7700x4300, roughly) shot with a huge 11MB file size is captured and an additional 5MP image is derived from that and stored as well. The results, especially in decent lighting, can be impressive."

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178 comments

Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417291)

Wake me up when Nokia can come out with something on Windows Phone which wasn't already implemented on Symbian two years ago.

Re:Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (2, Insightful)

craigminah (1885846) | about a year ago | (#44417383)

What are they trying to imply with this statement, "...offers virtually all of the controls you'd find in a DSLR camera"? Kind of a way to trick people into thinking it's DSLR-quality which is BS. 22MP is nice but how is it's low-light abilities and dynamic range? Seems like marketing hype...

Re:Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (4, Informative)

MojoKid (1002251) | about a year ago | (#44417555)

The context of the article notes controls "like you'd find in any DSLR camera." These controls allow you to actually affect image capture settings. Nokia didn't use that to "trick" people into anything. They just gave users more control over settings. The reality is, the camera and app are the best for any camera phone on the market now, but yet, it's still a built-in smartphone camera, albeit a really good one for what it is.

Re:Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44418731)

Oh come on, are you trying to sell sh.t for Microsoft? DSLR would have aperture priority mode, shutter priority and full manual mode, not the "ISO, white balance is all there".

Does this Windows phone crap needs to forced on people so badly that paid for "reviews" are not sufficient and now Slashdot is needed for that too?

Re:Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (0)

MojoKid (1002251) | about a year ago | (#44418799)

Hate all you like but this is no "paid review" and actually, it's just a preview look, not a full review. Yeah, trying to sell sh** for MS, that's what's going on. If you bothered to watch the video demo you would have noted that one of the downsides of the device that was called out was the fact that Windows Phone isn't at the level of Android or iOS, from an ecosystem standpoint. Someone once said, "don't feed the trolls"... so why am I tempted every time? No need to answer that.

Re:Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44419381)

Oh come on, are you trying to sell sh.t for Microsoft?

Windows 8 got a 10-digit marketing budget. Of course there's shills everywhere.

Microsoft is desperate, and they're failing in every market they have to compete in. The only thing propping them up is enterprise, and every IT manager with a clue is looking at how to gracefully escape from that particular trap.

These phones are basically uninteresting niche products that don't work well enough to succeed even in their niche. Too little too late basically, like most recent Microsoft products.

Re:Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (3, Informative)

thegarbz (1787294) | about a year ago | (#44419105)

The problem is they didn't just say "like you'd find in any DSLR camera." the summary said "virtually all of the controls you'd find in a DSLR camera." This is a laughable comment at best. It does not offer fine control over shutter aperture in different priority modes, fully manual control, bracketing, manual AF, viewfinder grid, horizon level, etc that you find standard in nearly all DSLRs on the market and many point and shoots. No I have seen many point and shoots that give more controls than what this offers.

Is it a good step forward? Yes. Is the sentence comparing it's controls to that of an actual camera justified? Hell no.

Re:Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (3, Funny)

MojoKid (1002251) | about a year ago | (#44419173)

Actually, it DOES have the following that you note... "shutter aperture, manual AF, bracketing and viewfinder grid"... so what's laughable?

Re: Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44419523)

It is kind of like comparing a Honda Civic to a Corvette by saying they both have a steering wheel and radio.

Slashvertising (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417563)

Yeah, vague mutter about "DSLR controls" is just Nokia marketing dept scamming the ignorant. It's still a camera phone, even if they add up pixels.

Nokia spent a truckload of money making Toshiba develop a large Mpix chip for them. The trouble is, 38 Mpix (41 is marketing crud) images are a solution in search of a problem. Zooming into holiday snapshots gets old real quick, as does "recomposing" snapshots. 38 Mpix can "zoom" by cropping, but that loses the add-up-pixels feature and the zoom range is small.

A RAW-capable optical-zoom point-and-shoot gives a lot more camera for half the price. If I value my pictures (and I do) I carry either a P&S or my DSLR. Who would want an expensive camera phone? Someone who wants 38 Mpix bathroom duck faces? Solution in search of a problem...

Re:Slashvertising (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44419055)

A new technology may not be better than the old, at first. Remember how bad LCD televisions were. Compare them to your old CRT in the shed now.

Re:Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (4, Informative)

HideyoshiJP (1392619) | about a year ago | (#44417605)

If they're as good as the Lumia 925 (and I assume they are), they're damned good. Far better than my Galaxy S3. Definitely not DSLR good, but damned good, nonetheless. At a recent concert, I was impressed how well it handled the stage lighting and everything. Many other phones didn't fare nearly as well as mine did. I did end up wishing I'd picked up a 1020 instead, as the performer's face was completely lacking any detail at the distance I was at.

Re:Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (1)

n0nsensical (633430) | about a year ago | (#44419409)

how's the sound on the concert videos? i've found the gs3 completely useless for recording live sound because it totally oversaturates the mic and comes out all static. my old iphone 4s was better but still distorted quite a bit. trying to find the best one for my next purchase, because the sound is the main thing i care about, but these things are never covered in reviews. sounds like it's either htc one or a nokia but I'd rather stick with android unless the nokia is clearly superior

Re:Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417657)

What are they trying to imply with this statement, "...offers virtually all of the controls you'd find in a DSLR camera"? Kind of a way to trick people into thinking it's DSLR-quality which is BS. 22MP is nice but how is it's low-light abilities and dynamic range? Seems like marketing hype...

First of all it is a 41mp sensor that captures a 34mp image. The same sensor is the Symbian swannsong, the 808. Not a 22mp anything. The sampling ranges are most likely 5mp, 8mp, 34mp (based on the 808s ranges.)

The idea is to claim the niche of high end point and clicks, not replace your DSLR. The low light and dynamic range is fantastic. For a phone. The image quality is awesome, for a phone. The zoom is atrocious, but it is a phone.

Re:Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (4, Insightful)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | about a year ago | (#44417669)

Samsung has been showing serious cameras that have phone functions [dpreview.com] , standard phones which have been outclassing Nokia in general reviews [dpreview.com] and real optical zoom cameras with most smartphone features [dpreview.com] . Nokia traditionally lead in phone cameras and when the original Pureview 808 [wikipedia.org] came out it looked pretty neat.

Now Nokia which has contracts that leave it trapped with windows they are desperate to get some of the 808's shine back. They know that users who already used a Windows phone won't do it again [blogs.com] so they have to look for new audiences. Aiming to sucker in camera users who they hope won't check app availability let alone how up to date the apps in the app store are is one of their better chances.

Re:Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44419075)

What are you talking about, I go a wp8 because I had 6 and 6.5 before.

Re:Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (2)

p51d007 (656414) | about a year ago | (#44419383)

Thought the same thing...LOL, heck, I know some people who have a dslr, but never take it off the green dot "auto" setting. 99% of the time, I use manual for everything. It's "how I was raised" back in the 70's and 80's film days.

Re:Digital image stabilization makes a comeback. (3, Informative)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about a year ago | (#44417621)

sure? This phone has optical image stabilisation. One of the elements in the lens floats - hence "floating image stabilization"

Still shit... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417359)

The camera might be great, but it's still a shitty Windoze phone.

Re:Still shit... (2)

jcr (53032) | about a year ago | (#44417859)

This raises the question of how it compares in price to other 41MP cameras that don't have a phone included with them. Maybe Nokia can re-invent themselves as a camera company.

-jcr

Re:Still shit... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44418185)

Exactly. They need to drop the Windoze boat anchor from their neck.

What good is hardware.... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417363)

... without a real OS to run it?

I'm sick of these Nokia articles failing to mention that the phones run completely useless firmware, making them overpriced paperweights.

Re:What good is hardware.... (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about a year ago | (#44417625)

So the OS doesn't allow you to take pictures, make phone calls and other various "phone" features?

Re:What good is hardware.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417659)

It does, but only 2 or three times before it grinds to a halt and you require a reboot which takes about eight minutes.

Only Problem (3, Interesting)

organgtool (966989) | about a year ago | (#44417379)

The only problem I have with this phone is that it runs Windows Phone OS. The OS actually isn't that bad and the app support is definitely improving, but I just can't stand the home screen. With its pastel colors and overly-animated interface, it looks like they got the inspiration by watching Technicolor cartoons and browsing web pages from 1996. Whenever I see it, I almost expect to see animated GIFS of flames and a dancing Jesus. Other than the home screen, the rest of the OS isn't as bad as I thought it would be.

Integration with OSX (2)

cristiroma (606375) | about a year ago | (#44417395)

Does it sync with Mac OSX Contacts and Calendar? Without handing over my data to Google (share Google calendar ...)?

Re:Integration with OSX (0)

oodaloop (1229816) | about a year ago | (#44417411)

Does it sync with Mac OSX Contacts and Calendar?

lolwut?

Re:Integration with OSX (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about a year ago | (#44417635)

It doesn't share any information with Google.

Re:Integration with OSX (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44419139)

I haven't synced a smartphone with a laptop in 5 years. There's no need to. Still rocking the 1st gen iPhone?

Wait a minute... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417419)

...you mean I paid how much and I can't change out the lenses on this camera? Wait, there's a phone built-in?

So I guess when I'm told in line "Sorry, sir, you can't use your phone while in line," I can say "Oh, no, I'm not sir. I'm talking on my camera."

WOOSH!

Could'a had an Android (4, Interesting)

Citizen of Earth (569446) | about a year ago | (#44417429)

How much further ahead would Nokia be if the 1020 had been an Android phone?

Re:Could'a had an Android (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417457)

It would be useless due to its bloated Nokia skin (requiring a quad core CPU to run smoothly) plus all the god awful Nokia apps.

iOS laggy OS (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44417613)

It would be useless due to its bloated Nokia skin (requiring a quad core CPU to run smoothly) plus all the god awful Nokia apps.

Running android on a single core phone. Smooth as silk. Maybe you mean iOS; These are apple customers complaining about lag https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4317962?start=30&tstart=0 [apple.com] . The bottom line is quad-core means you can run more powerful programs in android.

Re:iOS laggy OS (3, Insightful)

dfghjk (711126) | about a year ago | (#44418067)

Seems to me that choppy response is a standard Android complaint, particularly from those who do not have quad core. Those weren't Apple customers complaining about lag, either, they were older device customers complaining about performance after iOS upgrades. Cores are not the problem there.

Of course, quad core means worse battery life as well, along with slower recharge times that come with the larger batteries.

Funny how people seek out information to confirm their prejudices.

Re:iOS laggy OS (1)

iserlohn (49556) | about a year ago | (#44418875)

The pervasive stutter in Android rendering has all but disappeared since at least 3 versions of Android ago back in the ICS era.

Re:Could'a had an Android (1)

Desler (1608317) | about a year ago | (#44417463)

Probably not much. No one but Samsung is making any real money selling Android phones.

Everybody Makes Money from Android (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about a year ago | (#44417587)

Probably not much. No one but Samsung is making any real money selling Android phones.

Hold on it could have been Samsung making real money!!(sic) Nokia was four times the size of Samsung, who make more than even Apple(who lets be honest don't make as much as they used to), but that does not mean other companies are raking it in. Samsung have done well by producing great phones...can Nokia not make great phones?

Re:Everybody Makes Money from Android (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44419103)

Samsung makes anything from microwaves to vacuum cleaners, not just phones. Maybe Nokia was larger in market cap on the stock exchange, but not in reality.

Re:Could'a had an Android (1)

aliquis (678370) | about a year ago | (#44417601)

On the other hand. What if instead of "Yeah, you've got two choices of Linux on phones. Ours and Android. Our will run on the N900 and Android will run on phones from multiple companies" they had skiped Maemo5 and used Android?

If nothing else Nokia was way above 50% of the market in that time so they could had supported all of Maemo5/MeeGo, Android and Windows Phone. Or Symbian, Maemo5 and Android, or whatever. Samsung uses all of Android, Windows Phone, Bada and .. is it Tizen or another name? those not really players I have a hard time to remember.

Imho they have always tried (well, for a while, bought Symbian, Navteq, OVIstore, Nokia Ngage, their music thing whatever that was called (Xpress music?) and later something different music related) to get into services, I guess because they wanted to find more growth somewhere and they already dominated hardware. But they have also always screwed up services and they have wasted a hell of a lot of money on things which haven't lead anywhere or to very little return.

They could possibly had remained commited to MeeGo or at least not worded it as OMG THE PLATFORM IS BURNING JUMP SHIP AND SEE WHAT WE CAN FIND TO HOLD US AFLOAT! but I'm not all that confident in that considering the snail speed they crawled with. But even then rather than "Oh we'll release one test device with MeeGo" they could had said "fuck it, we'll ditch our own oses over time and release phones using android and windows phone instead."

I guess stubborness / poor management and possible Elop coming from Microsoft played part of it. Whatever it was the correct choice we'll never know but at least we'll see how it turned out.

Re:Could'a had an Android (1)

ozmanjusri (601766) | about a year ago | (#44417685)

No one but Samsung is making any real money selling Android phones.

Only on Slashdot. In the real world, that's just old FUD, and the market is competitive amd dynamic.

Apple versus Samsung passe': Smartphone rivals like LG, Sony gain on leaders

Samsung is now more profitable than Apple, according to second-quarter financial results released by Samsung on Friday in Seoul, South Korea. But while the two rivals have successively one-upped each other with ever sleeker, more technologically sophisticated phones, new competition is stirring.

The combined share of the worldwide smartphone market controlled by Apple and Samsung slipped to 43 per cent in the second quarter from 49 per cent a year earlier, IDC, a research firm, reported Friday.

Some of the companies chipping away at the leaders are familiar names trying comebacks, like Sony, Nokia and HTC. Others are relative newcomers, like LG of South Korea and Lenovo, ZTE and Huawei of China.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-07-27/news/40833643_1_samsung-electronics-smartphone-market-strategy-analytics [indiatimes.com]

Re:Could'a had an Android (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about a year ago | (#44417649)

It wouldn't have existed, since Nokia would be bankrupt without the financial help of Microsoft.

Re:Could'a had an Android (4, Informative)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | about a year ago | (#44417757)

It wouldn't have existed, since Nokia would be bankrupt without the financial help of Microsoft.

A lie does not become truth if you just repeat it all the time. We keep hearing this all the time "Nokia was losing money" "Nokia's customers were abandoning it" "Nokia would have gone bankrupt". The truth:

  • Up until Steven Elop's burning platforms memo Nokia had always been profitable for many years;
  • Up until Steven Elop's burning platforms memo Nokia had continuing increasing sales.
  • Up until Steven Elop's burning platforms memo Nokia had consistently increasing profits (though not every quarter)
  • Nokia had a huge and growing cash mountain of several billions of Euros.

If they did nothing they could afford to quietly and silently develop an Android phone far better than the ones Samsung puts out. It was announcing the decision to move to Windows phone and the cost of that change which killed Nokia. Not their past successful products.

Re:Could'a had an Android (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417981)

Absolutely correct. Nokia was a healthy company before they killed their cash cow.
http://www.asymco.com/2013/07/22/switcher/

In my opinion, the best thing would have been to stick to their old strategy: Meego. The N9 is an awesome phone.

Re:Could'a had an Android (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44418637)

Revisionist History. Nokia was in RAPID freefall long before Elop and certainly before MS partnership. They had relatively healthy numbers but were in rapid decline as they were reliant on the cheap mass produced non smart phones, they had to do something to stop that. Please go and review financials before MS and Elop and it is pretty clear Nokia were in serious trouble before either were on the seen.

Re:Could'a had an Android (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44418863)

The only thing that was shrinking for Nokia before Elop chose to burn a couple of platforms was market share. That is not a desirable place to be in, but the cure turned out to be worse than the disease and Nokia fell at a world record speed. Before burning platforms they STILL had more than ten times the marketshare they have today.

Revisionist history would be to forget that they were growing both sales and ASP in smart phones up until burning their own platforms. Now, more than three years later, they are more than ever dependent on those cheap mass produced non smart phones you condemned. Why? Because their smart phone sales have shrunk into a fraction of what they were with Symbian even in a much smaller market.

Had they decided to produce desirable Android phones, for which there clearly is a demand (the same can't be said for Windows Phone: really, not), they would've been much better off. In fact, even if they had they chosen their strategy by a blind monkey throwing faeces at a wall of options, they probably wouldn't have been much worse off than they are now.

Re:Could'a had an Android (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44418515)

How much further ahead would Nokia be if the 1020 had been an Android phone?

Ahead of who? Blackberry?

Re:Could'a had an Android (1)

Citizen of Earth (569446) | about a year ago | (#44419009)

Ahead of where it is now, of course, if it has chosen to pursue Android instead of Windows.

Meh (2, Insightful)

Doug Otto (2821601) | about a year ago | (#44417433)

The pictures don't even look that good. Blurring, CA issues and poor DOF.

That's too many pixels for a sensor that size.

Re:Meh (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about a year ago | (#44417507)

Well hopefully Nokia isn't trying to pass of photo and video from other devices as coming from the phone like they did last time.

Re:Meh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417553)

As a pro, I can say that you have no earthly idea what the fuck you're talking about. This is remarkable quality for a CAMERA PHONE. It ain't a DSLR. It doesn't have pretenses of being one.

Re:Meh (3, Informative)

Doug Otto (2821601) | about a year ago | (#44417623)

I also shoot professionally and I do have an earthly idea what the fuck I'm talking about. It'd produce better images with fewer pixels.

Nokia is feeding on naive consumers who believe the myth that more pixels is automatically better. If you look at their marketing information they drive that fact down your throat. Pixel size and distance between pixel sites has much more to do with image quality than the number of pixels.

Re:Meh (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417697)

No, no, it wouldn't. You do understand the concept of "super-sampling", don't you? They knock out a ton of noise by oversampling the image. Lowering the pixel count to make the pixel sites bigger doesn't really benefit that significantly when we're talking about a sensor this small. But adding more pixels, and then averaging them together, yields a big win in terms of picture quality, and even professional observers (of which you're clearly not) can tell that the quality gained from oversampling is significant.

Re:Meh (-1, Flamebait)

Doug Otto (2821601) | about a year ago | (#44417727)

Okay AC.

Re:Meh (2)

Arkh89 (2870391) | about a year ago | (#44418053)

Yeah... but when you do the maths, you find that actually, even under the best case scenario the optics will put a hard limit on performances (the MTF fall-off is *really* significant for their sampling). I am not convinced that this is the optimal point (set of characteristics if you prefer) for the sampling (AKA the optimal point in the trade-off between resolution, MTF fall-off and sensor SNR, "Signal to Noise Ratio").

Re:Meh (3, Insightful)

notanalien_justgreen (2596219) | about a year ago | (#44419183)

This is just not true at all. In low light conditions shrinking the pixels will produce higher noise results. Additionally this is way too many pixels to have any effect resolution-wise. It's a marketing gimmick, pure and simple. If there was any validity to your argument, then why do real DSLR cameras typically max out around 15-20 megapixels even though their sensors are substantially larger than this one?

To quote Bender, (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417435)

Why two? Why on earth do I want to take up space with a 11MB photo, and a second 5MB photo derived from the 11MB photo. If I need a small photo to email or something, I'll shrink the 11MB photo when the time comes. I was planning on listing several scenarios that might cause someone to consider this, then explain why they are stupid, but I can't even think of another reason that makes even the smallest amount of sense.

Re:To quote Bender, (3, Informative)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about a year ago | (#44417699)

Because loading a 40MP image can bring computers to their knees. Even at 3 bytes per pixel (which most implementations use 4, iOS does anyway) for image data, you're looking at 120MB of RAM just to uncompress the image.

Why not have the dedicated hardware built in to the camera processor scale it down so the ARM cores don't spend a few minutes trying to do it in software?

Re:To quote Bender, (2, Insightful)

dfghjk (711126) | about a year ago | (#44418125)

The ignorance on /. is astounding.

Re:To quote Bender, (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44419143)

D3D supports YUV textures, not sure about the version running on wp8 though. If they really tried, even doing some simple pixel shader swizzling, it could probably directly display the image at 1.5 bytes/pixel, with UV having the standard half resolution.

Re:To quote Bender, (2)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about a year ago | (#44417771)

I just did a test with Firefox on an 3.4GHz i7-2600. It took Firefox 14 seconds of CPU time (on a single core) to render a 40MP image.

Firefox can't show the image zoomed out, only at 1x zoom scale.

Conclusion: Rendering 40MP images isn't a day in the park.

Re:To quote Bender, (2)

Teun (17872) | about a year ago | (#44417965)

I'd have a serious look at Firefox.

I have the Nikon D800 that takes 36.3 MP pictures and using Gwenview in Linux of Irfanview in Windows I can very happily and without noticeable delay scroll through a large number of these photo's, hell even the Windows picture viewer doesn't choke on it!
Now I did try to watch these pictures on my Nexus-4 and Nexus-7 and that's not exactly a pleasure, there I'd be glad with the 5 MP copies.

Re:To quote Bender, (1)

bloodhawk (813939) | about a year ago | (#44418685)

with the bloat of firefox it probably has to spend the first 13.9 seconds freeing enough memory to load the image.

Re:To quote Bender, (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about a year ago | (#44419569)

Windows picture viewer and other such pieces of software create thumbnails. Some images have a thumbnail image embedded in the meta data.
Please tell me again why creating both a 40MP image and a 5MP image is a bad thing.

Re:To quote Bender, (1)

dfghjk (711126) | about a year ago | (#44418101)

11MB and 5 MP, not 5MB.

Their reduction algorithm is matched to their hardware.

why are you comparing it to a real camera? (2, Insightful)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | about a year ago | (#44417455)

Nokia's Pro Cam app is comprised of a slick dial interface that offers virtually all of the controls you'd find in a DSLR camera

But can you change the lens? Is the sensor large enough that depth of field becomes meaningful?

The 1020's camera grabs two versions of the shot; a large full resolution (7700x4300, roughly) shot with a huge 11MB file size...

My camera produces 20 megabyte raw files, but its sensor is only 14 Megapixels.

Re:why are you comparing it to a real camera? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417519)

Shh, you're letting the reality of photography get in the way of megapixel marketing.

Re:why are you comparing it to a real camera? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417521)

And why are you comparing raw files to jpeg?

Re:why are you comparing it to a real camera? (1)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | about a year ago | (#44417815)

Do you mean to say that the Lumia can shoot raw?

Re:why are you comparing it to a real camera? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417571)

-
Yes, yes of course you can change the lens.

Nokia are trying to capture the market of people who love huge, unwieldy devices ...

Re:why are you comparing it to a real camera? (1)

excelsior_gr (969383) | about a year ago | (#44417833)

What does the sensor size have to do with the depth of field? The DOF is controlled by the aperture, not the sensor's dimensions. Unless you meant "field of view" instead of "depth of field", which is a different story.

Re:why are you comparing it to a real camera? (1)

Teun (17872) | about a year ago | (#44418041)

Give it a try, a tiny sensor and lens combination does have a great depth of field, would such a system shrink to the size of a single point you'd have a perfect depth of field.

Re:why are you comparing it to a real camera? (2)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | about a year ago | (#44418195)

I have an APS-C dlsr. If I put my 50mm f/1.4 lens, wide open, and photograph a subject 3 meters away, the depth of field is approximately 20 cm.
If I managed to find a 75 mm f/1.4 lens (fast 85mm lenses are far more common), and a full frame camera to mount it on, the field of view would be similar, but the depth of field would be approximately 13 cm.
Depth of field calculator [dofmaster.com]
IIRC, the lumia has a 1/1.7 sensor-- bigger than most point and shoots, but smaller than APS-C, or micro four thirds-- with a crop factor of 4.2.

To get that 75 mm equivalent, the Lumia would have to use a 18 mm lens, with a 39 cm depth of field.

Re:why are you comparing it to a real camera? (2)

thegarbz (1787294) | about a year ago | (#44419145)

DOF is controlled by aperture and by subject - background and subject - camera distances. On a smaller sensor if you want the same field of view you need change your subject distance for all other things staying equal or reduce the focal length of the lens. In either case this results in a reduced depth of field.

This is why on a cameraphone you can't get any kind of decently low depth of field even with the f/2.8 lenses they often use.

Re:why are you comparing it to a real camera? (1)

Teun (17872) | about a year ago | (#44418001)

The advantage of these small sensors is a very large field of depth and that's exactly what most consumers want, no fuzziness.

Personally I like these types of camera's for extreme close-ups or macro photo's, precisely because of the huge depth of field.

No one in his right mind would use these camera's for a nice bokeh.

Re:why are you comparing it to a real camera? (1)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | about a year ago | (#44418397)

I don't care about bokeh as much as I do about subject isolation.

Re:why are you comparing it to a real camera? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44418229)

You make an excellent point. Will you be waiting for them to release a cellphone with interchangeable telephoto lenses?

Re:why are you comparing it to a real camera? (1)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | about a year ago | (#44418609)

> with interchangeable telephoto lenses?

don't forget fisheyes, tilt shifts, macros and wide angle lenses. Nikon does make an android device [nikonusa.com] though it lacks interchangeable lenses.

If a manufacturer were to release an interchangeable lens camera with a good API, it might make a huge splash. Imagine: an entry level camera with 9 shot bracketing or sophisti0cated timelapse features.

slowly but steadily MS and Nokia will rise again! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417481)

"Windows Phone" is not very popular (yet!) but Nokia, even if less than in the past, still is (at least outside U.S.A. -without excluding it-, like Asia, Africa, and surely in Europe - i am from Greece -mobile connections, many of them broadband, are more than 120% of our population, that uses mostly the latest and greatest smartphones- and Nokia is the most respected manufacturer), so i expect both Nokia AND Microsoft to do well in the near future and their cooperation to be successful - and they both deserve it since "Windows Phone" is not as bad as many think and Nokia is... Nokia!

Re:slowly but steadily MS and Nokia will rise agai (1)

ze_jua (910531) | about a year ago | (#44417747)

Yes, Nokia is Nokia. But Microsoft is Microsoft to, and nobody there wants a Windows Phone in their pockets.

I have only Nokia phones since 1999. I love this company, even with the Symbian debacle.

My N97 is dying. This Nok 1020 has great hardware, but I don't want it because of Windows. I prefer to focus on the HTC One, which is 9000 times less fixable [ifixit.com] than all the apple stuff that I love to hate [ifixit.com] .

If all these Lumia8xx/9xx/10xx were running Android...

Re:slowly but steadily MS and Nokia will rise agai (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44418283)

I have a Lumia. I chose it because I needed to decide which company I hate the least passing my personal info to: Apple, Google or Microsoft. I deemed Microsoft the least scary choice at the moment. They all violate all principles of decent privacy, but I believe Microsoft can do least damage with the information.

I use Google for my searches and maps but I will not sign up with a Google account.

I wish someone started selling a phone without an ecosystem; just an IPv6 access device would be fine.

Re:slowly but steadily MS and Nokia will rise agai (1)

Gabest (852807) | about a year ago | (#44419189)

I don't get what people liked about Symbian. It was slow, crashed, and the anyone who saw its horrific sdk praised microsoft for creating windows ce.

From Microsoft? AhahahahhAHhahahah (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417487)

in my house? hahahahahahhha
no wait, seriously? ahhahhahahaha

don't buy any of their stuff and watch them fade into history

hahahahaahahah

More detailed amateurs... (1)

sethstorm (512897) | about a year ago | (#44417537)

If the quality is any bit respectable, it'll just mean more detailed selfies on imgur.

Re:More detailed amateurs... (1)

ze_jua (910531) | about a year ago | (#44417705)

It will be cool for /r/gonewild/...

But i don't want 41Mpix shots /r/spacedicks !

If only it ran Andriod. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417539)

Nokia could have been Samsung.
Gimmicks won't save them.

Elop traded a burning platform for a burning company.

RIP Nokia.

Still waiting... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417543)

I'm not on the touchscreen-only bandwagon. I know I'm not alone either, I just wish there would finally be some high-spec phones with physical keyboards in the near future. The Droid 4 is the best there is right now and it's fairly ho-hum. Bluetooth keyboards just don't cut it either since the OS doesn't go very far as supporting autocorrect. If only phone manufacturers would realize there is still a market for qwerty even if it does increase production costs a tiny bit.

7700x4300? (1, Insightful)

MindPrison (864299) | about a year ago | (#44417547)

And yet we haven't seen a single 7700x4300 sample anywhere on the net ....yet...

Not to my knowledge. Most of those reviewers on the net, links to flickr images with a max res of 3000x etc....

Re:7700x4300? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44418019)

http://conversations.nokia.com/2013/07/11/nokia-lumia-1020-picture-gallery-zoom-in/ this picture seems to be close (first one of the city)

or you could have used a image search engine to find it yourself... but i guess that is too much to expect, it is after all easier to just complain about something regardless of the truth

Re:7700x4300? (1)

MindPrison (864299) | about a year ago | (#44418927)

Now there you go.

Someone found what I failed to find. Thanks! That's what I wanted to see.

That's good but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417565)

I am still waiting for a mobile phone that allows me to make and receive calls inexpensively and reliably anywhere. It's fine if it comes with a nice camera, but it is by no means necessary.

If it wasn't windows (1, Insightful)

EmperorOfCanada (1332175) | about a year ago | (#44417851)

If it wasn't windows then I would put this phone on my candidates list. I don't understand why they got into bed with Microsoft. I program apps for the iPhone and then port them to Android but would love to have a better Android as my primary phone. I don't want to wear the hair shirt of BlackBerry or Windows. It is sort of like the days when a few of my friends were all wound up about BeOS and before that OS/2. They could come up with all kinds of reasons that BeOS or OS/2 were awesome OSs but sticking to the mainstream OSs is just so much easier and when developing, profitable.

One thing though. I watched the video of the two dogs and while crisp it was odd looking. The colours were sometimes wonky and the dogs went weird when they moved fast. As an example the driveway turns quite blue for a moment while panning.

gn4a (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44417949)

believe their Purposes *BASD is study. [rice.edu] get tough. IY hope cans can become core team. They are there? Let's as WideOpen,

is there really a market for this? (1)

D1G1T (1136467) | about a year ago | (#44418189)

Anybody who really cares about good photos and video is going to use a dedicated camera with interchangeable lenses, a larger sensor, reduced rolling shutter and RAW. For everyone else, the current phone cameras are "good enough."

Re:is there really a market for this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44418237)

Hipsters. Especially since neither Nokia and Windows Phone are cool or mainstream. iPhones are too mainstream for the hipsters anymore so they've gotta migrate somewhere else.

Re:is there really a market for this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44418269)

Exactly. It is always a waste of time trying to miniaturize technology.

Re:is there really a market for this? (1)

hurfy (735314) | about a year ago | (#44418559)

I'd take my old P&S with a phone attached tho.

These are so you don't have to carry a camera. If i am planning on taking pictures it would be nice to leave my phone behind as i am not really planning on using it much.

That said....how is the PHONE? Some of my cohorts have $300 phones that sounds worse than my ANCIENT flip-phone after a couple dozen drops to the concrete :/ (makes note to stop dropping phone in front of said cohorts to freak em out..even if it is the one thing my phone does theirs doesn't!)

Imagine, this could be running Meego (1)

davydagger (2566757) | about a year ago | (#44418959)

Imagine if this was running Maemo/Meego instead of windows phone.

How good your hardware is doesn't matter if its locked to shitty software.

so much hate for nokia (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44419031)

My Nokia phone has served me very well, not even a new one. Nokia maps and drive is very precise, and very useful. Windows might not have all the functionality that an Iphone or Android has in regards to apps, but for what Nokia offers it's more than enough for me.

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