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Snowden Gave 15,000 Documents to Glenn Greenwald; Obama Cancels Russia Summit

Unknown Lamer posted about a year ago | from the where's-sarah-palin-when-you-need-her dept.

United States 531

sl4shd0rk writes "The American journalist Glenn Greewald, who published much of the initial info on illegal NSA programs, plans to release more revelations on the NSA spying machine in 10 days. 'The articles we have published so far are a very small part of the revelations that ought to be published,' Greenwald said on Tuesday. Greenwald further elaborated on public posturing which many nations are currently taking: 'The Brazilian government is showing much more anger in public than it is showing in private discussions with the U.S. government. All governments are doing this, even in Europe.'" The U.S. decided to pull out of a summit with Russia next month, citing the decision to grant Snowden asylum as a factor: "However, given our lack of progress on issues such as missile defense and arms control, trade and commercial relations, global security issues, and human rights and civil society in the last twelve months, we have informed the Russian Government that we believe it would be more constructive to postpone the summit until we have more results from our shared agenda. Russia's disappointing decision to grant Edward Snowden temporary asylum was also a factor that we considered in assessing the current state of our bilateral relationship. Our cooperation on these issues remains a priority for the United States, so on Friday, August 9, Secretaries Hagel and Kerry will meet with their Russian counterparts in a 2+2 format in Washington to discuss how we can best make progress moving forward on the full range of issues in our bilateral relationship."

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Why are they putting a number on the amount of doc (1, Interesting)

elucido (870205) | about a year ago | (#44499317)

I don't understand why that information would ever be released. Are they trying to provoke the US government? I think so.

Re: Why are they putting a number on the amount of (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499345)

This says everything

http://youtu.be/P9EbAZdb7hQ

Re:Why are they putting a number on the amount of (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499417)

One would think the US government cannot be provoked so easily and would never react in such a pathetic manner but we live in interesting times.

Re:Why are they putting a number on the amount of (5, Insightful)

rwven (663186) | about a year ago | (#44499653)

They're acting like spoiled, jilted children. I'm frankly ashamed of this sham of a government we have running the "show" at the moment. I use quotes because it's a circus, not a government. The american politicians of 1776 would have these morons in irons for the rest of their lives. Well, more accurately the poiticians of 1776 would have these morons surrendering after a bloody 4 year war for independence.

Re:Why are they putting a number on the amount of (4, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | about a year ago | (#44499833)

I dunno. This sort of nonsense started pretty early on.

Alien and Sedition Acts [wikipedia.org]

Re:Why are they putting a number on the amount of (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499857)

As if you would do anything, tough-guy. You'd still be sitting in your mother's basement eating Cheetoes and browsing Facebook in-between playing WoW while the real heroes take real action against the corrupt government.

Then, years later, you'd tell your grandkids, " Yeah, I was there, man, when the revolution was going down! I killed 50 people once! They were like, like, a horde, man! Yeah, a horde. Then I broke Ron and Rand Paul out of Supermax during a daring helicopter raid! Like in Metal Gear Solid 2! "

Re:Why are they putting a number on the amount of (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499897)

The slaveowning aristocratic hypocrites who made a mockery of "liberty" would be too outraged that Black people and women could vote and become president to care much about someone leaking classified info to foreign governments. Although if they thought about it they'd be upset about that as well.

Re:Why are they putting a number on the amount of (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499903)

It was a bit more than 4 years. Perhaps you'd like to read up about it [wikipedia.org] . There was also a good documentary series on Netflix I watched a while back, but I can't remember what it was called. It was mostly a live action re-enactment with narration, more a miniseries than a documentary really. Not much rah rah America but more historically accurate including even a sympathetic look at Benedict Arnold and his reasons for defecting. About 8 hour-long episodes iirc covering the period of time from shortly after the French and Indian War through the ratification of the Articles of Confederation. Then there was the whole War of 1812 mess.

Moral of the story: revolution can happen, not everyone will support you, your reasons may not even be as righteous as you think they are, and it will be long, drawn out, and very bloody, and you'll probably lose unless an ally like late 18th century France sympathizes with you.

Re: Why are they putting a number on the amount of (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499591)

And in other news

Hard drive shredders at record prices

Re: Why are they putting a number on the amount of (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499879)

And in other other news [theguardian.com] : John Lewis has just said that he supported Snowden and compared his leaks to the civil disobediance during the Civil Rights era. I'll bet Obama is wishing that he didn't give him the Presidential Medal of Freedom and call him the "conscience of the United States Congress".

Security and Business competition (5, Insightful)

Okian Warrior (537106) | about a year ago | (#44499613)

Reading into Glen Greenwald's comments and some of his other statements, it would seem that much of the spying is used not for security purposes, rather it's to give an edge to certain select US businesses.

If this is true, it would be huge. Citizens don't count for much in terms of US policy decisions, but an unfair boost to chosen businesses would tick off every other business in the US and abroad - the economic ramifications would be nothing short of tectonic.

I don't understand why that information would ever be released. Are they trying to provoke the US government? I think so.

There really is a difference between short-term advantage and long-term gain, and it's one of the ways to measure intelligence. If Glen should withhold the information for fear of ticking off the US government, he gives up the potential benefits of a future where the US has been forced to stop such corrupt and illegal practices.

The long-term gain is enormous and long-lasting, the short-term pain is fleeting and ephemeral. That's why he is releasing the information.

In the long run, we're all better off by having this information out in the open.

Re:Security and Business competition (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499927)

Compared to every other country on the planet? Really? Shit, only the foxnews crowd believes that the Chinese cyberwar is military in nature; it's completely economic and successful.

Re:Security and Business competition (5, Informative)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#44500007)

Reading into Glen Greenwald's comments and some of his other statements, it would seem that much of the spying is used not for security purposes, rather it's to give an edge to certain select US businesses.

Unless you can point to something firmer, you probably have that garbled. The situation is rather more subtle than that.

Why We Spy on Our Allies [cryptome.org] - By R. James Woolsey, a Washington lawyer and a former Director of Central Intelligence.

Boeing Called A Target Of French Spy Effort [nwsource.com]
Airbus' Presentation on Boeing 787 - Bad CI Ethics? [ning.com]

Slashdot naivete (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44500071)

Why do you naively believe that the US will ever stop such spying? Every industrialized country on earth does it including the UK, Brazil, Russia, Germany, France, Italy, et al.. because they can and because they have the technological wherewithal to do it.

For a site filled with supposed tech enthusiasts I'm seeing an awful lot of naivete and misunderstanding of technology. Once you invent a technology it doesn't get uninvented.

Re:Security and Business competition (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44500115)

So true.

Re:Why are they putting a number on the amount of (5, Insightful)

chill (34294) | about a year ago | (#44499959)

They're trying to make the point of the furor and debate over the last month was triggered by only a small amount of data. A good portion of the conversation has been an attempt to deflect the attacks to Snowden himself, instead of what the information showed.

Still, it resulted in multiple Congressional hearings; a very close vote to defund aspects of the PATRIOT Act; and a public act of perjury by the DNI.

His point is all that was prompted by only the tip of the iceberg, and they still have the entire polar expanse to uncover.

He could also be putting various public officials on notice that they better not lie to the public about what they knew and approved of, because he can quite possibly publicly call them on it.

Re:Why are they putting a number on the amount of (5, Insightful)

RoknrolZombie (2504888) | about a year ago | (#44500077)

Well, the initial stories said that Snowden had acquired the information and intentionally waited until after the last election to release it. The reasons that I remember being given were that Snowden had HOPED for some CHANGE in the Government and for some wacky reason thought that Obama would be the one to do it. Apparently the data was released after he determined that the hope and change thing wasn't gonna happen.
 
  Right now it sounds to me a lot like blackmail - the documents will continue to be released as long as the US Gubmint starts acting like spoiled brats. We can see that this hasn't changed, so we can expect documents to continue to be released. If they're smart they'll break up the data from least to most damaging and release it in that order...the more the US resists decency, the worse their reputation will get until the Americans (or hell, other countries) get together to kick some ass.

Re:Why are they putting a number on the amount of (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44500113)

They never speak about it because it scares the shit out of world wide governments when information about how many pages of paper were used gets to the powerfull Audubon and save the tree groups. This latest paper disaster will be handled soon as tree hugging classes are over.

Re:Why are they putting a number on the amount of (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44500129)

Who the hell cares about mentally small children who think in terms of "trying to provoke us"?
This is not some elementary school yard quarrel. THIS IS INTEL ABOUT OUR ENEMIES: THE NSA! Grow up!

You don't understand why anyone would release this? Why? Because you have no free will, no interest in giving a shit about your rights, and no spine, and hence cannot possibly ever imagine how somebody could not be a brain-dead zombie blob, but stand up, and say "NO. THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!"?

Well... if it works like that with you... that you obey when being shouted down... then: SHUT THE FUCK UP, OR I WILL COME, AND KICK YOUR ASS, YOU PATHETIC LOSER! ;-)

Typical (1)

war4peace (1628283) | about a year ago | (#44499325)

...when bullies meet...

"Bilateral relationship" (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499333)

"The US government telling other countries what to do and then throwing a temper tantrum when it doesn't get what it wants."

Re:"Bilateral relationship" (1, Interesting)

Creepy (93888) | about a year ago | (#44499775)

The irony is Obama isn't getting what he wants, either. Obama's personal agenda is to eliminate all nukes worldwide and disarming Russia would help further that plan. OTOH, he also has said that he is willing to eliminate all nukes in the US even if other countries don't (the most asinine thing I've heard from him... I can just imagine in a Russian voice "give us all your food or we drop nukes").

Re:"Bilateral relationship" (3, Interesting)

Antipater (2053064) | about a year ago | (#44499907)

Anyone else notice that instead of going to Russia, Obama decided to visit Sweden?

Re:"Bilateral relationship" (4, Funny)

chill (34294) | about a year ago | (#44499985)

That Swedish Bikini Team beats a shirtless Putin any day of the week. Even Obama knows that.

Re:"Bilateral relationship" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44500125)

It is a way of giving the Russians the finger in a particularly obvious manner. To the Russians, Sweden is the number one example of an unimportant country.

no surprise there then (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499343)

n/t

Screw You Obama (5, Insightful)

Jherek Carnelian (831679) | about a year ago | (#44499353)

Screw you Obama for giving Russia, with all their human rights problems like Pussy Riot, the moral high ground here. Screw you for making the US look like a bunch of mean-spirited whiners that have lost their shit because Snowden revealed the emperor has no clothes. It's going to be a long time, if ever, until we get back the home of the free and the land of the brave.

Re:Screw You Obama (4, Insightful)

oodaloop (1229816) | about a year ago | (#44499427)

until we get back the home of the free and the land of the brave.

The what now?

Re:Screw You Obama (1)

tool462 (677306) | about a year ago | (#44499493)

Strike that, reverse it.

Re:Screw You Obama (1)

Mitreya (579078) | about a year ago | (#44499507)

until we get back the home of the free and the land of the brave.

The what now?

The slogan that many Americans instinctively trot out when they want to reassure themselves of being #1.

If you stop and think about the slogans... you probably hate our freedoms.

Re:Screw You Obama (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499749)

Spoken like a true, whiny cunt.

Re:Screw You Obama (1)

oodaloop (1229816) | about a year ago | (#44500093)

I was referring to my signature, which I sometimes forget people block.

Re:Screw You Obama (1)

xclr8r (658786) | about a year ago | (#44499581)

Should be "Land of the Free Home of the Brave." There is also a Bob Dylan/Johnny Cash album of the same title.

Re:Screw You Obama (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499697)

"Everybody must get droned!"

Re:Screw You Obama (5, Funny)

RenderSeven (938535) | about a year ago | (#44499667)

He meant "the land of the free homes". Or is it "home of the land-free braves"? Im pretty sure there is a housing bubble and/or American Indian joke in there somewhere.

Re:Screw You Obama (4, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | about a year ago | (#44499443)

How to know when someone doesn't understand Russia? Of all the human rights problems to list, they choose the (favorite hipster issue of) Pussy Riot. You don't think killing journalists or fixing elections is a little more worthy of note?

Re:Screw You Obama (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499537)

He listed one example; he didn't say that was the most important issue or that it was the only one.

Re:Screw You Obama (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499555)

Ooh, you're so cool because your human rights violations are better than his human rights violations. You are the embodiment of the hipterism that you complain about.

Re:Screw You Obama (4, Insightful)

RobbieCrash (834439) | about a year ago | (#44499557)

This is a perfect example of why left-wing politics are so unsuccessful. We need to stop trying to one-up each other, and focus on making whatever change is possible. If there is pressure on Russia for Pussy Riot or their anti-gay laws, and that pressure is maintained, there's a chance of changing those things. If we all start whinging about 'why don't you start caring about something else!' then the pressure drops, nothing changes; 500 voices yelling different things are a lot easier to tune out than 500 voices yelling the same. Just because the progress isn't aimed at what you, and many other people (myself included), feel is a bigger issue doesn't make it wrong.

Causes need people and momentum, splintering movements destroys them. Just because it's not guided at the worst of the worst doesn't mean that the human rights violations against Pussy Riot ok.

Re:Screw You Obama (2)

phantomfive (622387) | about a year ago | (#44499973)

I'm perfectly happy for someone to have different priorities.

The annoying thing is when people rant without making an effort to understand the situation first. Do you remember after the Boston bombing, when people were being harassed for nothing more than being photographed with a suspicious backpack? That kind of thing happens when you don't make an effort to understand the situation.

Re:Screw You Obama (5, Insightful)

wbr1 (2538558) | about a year ago | (#44499977)

This is a perfect example of why left-wing politics are so unsuccessful.

You say that as if right-wing politics is so much more successful.

The problem is neither right or left wing. The problem is that our politicians make a side show out of hot-button but ultimately not very important issues, so they can appear to differentiate themselves and 'take a stand for/against x'. In reality, they are sold to the highest bidder, working for an almost mutually shared agenda that is hidden behind all the bluff and bluster. Not many really bother to look deep when their standard of living is okay at least, and they have the lotto/tmz/vh1/football/whatever to keep them distracted.

Re:Screw You Obama (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about a year ago | (#44500127)

So what you are saying is you knew about Russian human rights problems before it was popular knowledge?

Re:Screw You Obama (1)

bkmoore (1910118) | about a year ago | (#44499445)

Screw you Obama for giving Russia, with all their human rights problems like Pussy Riot, the moral high ground here. Screw you for making the US look like a bunch of mean-spirited whiners that have lost their shit because Snowden revealed the emperor has no clothes. It's going to be a long time, if ever, until we get back the home of the free and the land of the brave.

yea, and you, Obama + Bush, have ruined all the good Yakov Smirnoff jokes. "In America you watch television. In America, television watch you!"

Re:Screw You Obama (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499519)

Sad but true...

Re:Screw You Obama (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499579)

Screw you Obama for giving Russia, with all their human rights problems like Pussy Riot, the moral high ground here. Screw you for making the US look like a bunch of mean-spirited whiners that have lost their shit because Snowden revealed the emperor has no clothes. It's going to be a long time, if ever, until we get back the home of the free and the land of the brave.

yea, and you, Obama + Bush, have ruined all the good Yakov Smirnoff jokes. "In America you watch television. In America, television watch you!"

WTF does your Bush Derangement Syndrome have to do with what Obama's been doing? Obama's been in office half a decade. Obama owns it.

Obama owns the fact that 90% of the jobs being created now are part time and not full-time.

Obama owns the fact that if millions of people hadn't given up looking for jobs and today's work force participation rate were the same as it was when he took office, unemployment would be about 12%.

Obama owns the fact that Wall Street is flying high while ordinary people are getting screwed. But I'm sure Obama has a government program full of handouts that will keep you poor and on the "vote Democrat" plantation the rest of your life. Imagine that. Obama's banker buddies get rich, give him bribes^H^H^H^H^H campaign contributions, and you get paid in money that in 10 years is going to be worth the same as an IOU from Greece. Or Detroit.

Greece? Detroit? What's the difference? They both ran out of other people's money.

Re:Screw You Obama (4, Insightful)

Mitreya (579078) | about a year ago | (#44499453)

for giving Russia, with all their human rights problems like Pussy Riot, the moral high ground here.

The irony is palpable!

"given our lack of progress on issues such as missile defense and arms control, trade and commercial relations, global security issues, and human rights and civil society in the last twelve months"

I guess there is a lack of progress on both sides....

Fuck you! Obummer is the messiah! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499459)

How dare you insult the Glorious Leader. Messiah Obummer is bringing the world hope and change. He is preventing us from being blown up by terrorists every time we fly in a plane.

Obummer is good! Obummer is great! We surrender our souls as of this date!

Re:Fuck you! Obummer is the messiah! (2)

evendiagram (2789803) | about a year ago | (#44499685)

Obummer is good! Obummer is great! We surrender our souls as of this date!

You seem to be having a lot of fun bashing on Obama but you should cast your net wide. It's a concerted effort between a handful [nytimes.com] of large players [nytimes.com] in the power structure.

Re:Fuck you! Obummer is the messiah! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499747)

Take Obummer's dick out of your ass first.

Re:Screw You Obama (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499469)

It also means that other countries that were holding out going full 1984 will now have an excuse to do it.

Re:Screw You Obama (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499485)

Pussy Riot is a US PR stunt, probably run by the like of the Rendon Group, or whoever was responsible for the' Saddam stole incubators from Kuwaiti hospitals' scam.

Re:Screw You Obama (2)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about a year ago | (#44499545)

It started long before Obama. Around about 11/09/2001 in fact. Billions pissed away on a false sense of security are nothing to the freedoms lost and the lives and countries destroyed.

We are still waiting for American to hit rock bottom so it can start on the long road to recovery.

Re:Screw You Obama (1)

Desler (1608317) | about a year ago | (#44499599)

Billions? You're a few orders of magnitude off...

Re:Screw You Obama (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499549)

I believe this was planned before now. It is a plan to get snowden cheaply. I pray that God almighty would protect snowden and all who speak and fight for the truth. A game is on board. My plea is that russia should do the world proud by keeping snowden or even giving him a permanent assylum. May God through the blessed virgin mary protect you with his angels Snowden. We love you bro!. don't worry you are safe under the God's guide. The truth will always set you free bro. Fear Nothing. (+).

Re:Screw You Obama (-1, Troll)

chris.alex.thomas (1718644) | about a year ago | (#44499593)

PROTIP: you were never the land of the free, nor the land of the brave

Re:Screw You Obama (2)

Desler (1608317) | about a year ago | (#44499631)

Send this communist terrorist to Gitmo! *cocks shotgun*

Re:Screw You Obama (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#44499771)

If you're going to offer a "PROTIP" you should make an effort to be correct.

Re:Screw You Obama (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499983)

You were never in the land of the free to begin with. This place has been locked down as much as any other country since before you were born.

Unless of course you are one of those gun nuts that think land of the free means you can shoot anyone freely if they piss you off, then sure enjoy your freedoms.
I hope you realize that your guns are worthless if your own government went rogue on the country. (woops, that happened already)
Good luck shooting down a titan missile.

Free speech? Pfft, hardly. You'll still get arrested and/or put on a watch list in some government DB.

"Land of the brave" is just hilarious.
Early humans braving AN ICE AGE, that was brave. Some people in wooden toy boats sailing off the end of the planet? Who cares, it is turtles all the way down, everyone knows that, turtle is for dinner, lunch, supper, breakfast and tea!

America is as screwed as any other country is right now.
And they are even more Big Brother-ish than the UK was mistakenly labelled because some stupid report counted private cameras as CCTV.
Welcome to your real country, the only country you have ever known.
Stop thinking you were ever in the Matrix V.1, you weren't.

US Govt... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499365)

Throwing a tantrum cause the big baby didn't get its way.

dont piss russia off (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499393)

last thing i want, being in alaska specifically is another "war" brought on by these little men throwing big fits about their fictitious entities.. in the case of "war" our state = easy target.

Re:dont piss russia off (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499471)

last thing i want, being in alaska specifically is another "war" brought on by these little men throwing big fits about their fictitious entities.. in the case of "war" our state = easy target.

Because the best way to deal with a bully is to roll over and do what he wants.

That always stops the agression, right?

Re:dont piss russia off (3, Funny)

chris.alex.thomas (1718644) | about a year ago | (#44499627)

well, just ask Sarah Palin to keep a close eye on them, just over there and you'll have plenty of time to know if those dammed ruskies are up to no darn good.....

Re:dont piss russia off (1)

maliqua (1316471) | about a year ago | (#44499741)

No one wants to attack Alaska,
its cold and next to Canada, don't get me wrong its a wonderful place to live or visit, but a really terrible place to invade

All governments? (2)

Threni (635302) | about a year ago | (#44499403)

No. The UK government is working with the American government. I suspect most of them are. In public they have to act angry because many people are angry about it; it's illegal/immoral, and no-one asked for it. Privately they're either helping (favour for a favour) or benefitting from it, although a lot of politicians will be against it themselves, but having to go along with it because it's their own secret security services who are involved with only the knowledge of a handful of politicians at the top. Not easy to spin this to the public.

Nothing's going to change out of all this.

Obama's got more backbone against the US itself (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499419)

Obama goes out of his way to avoid pissing off the Russians (stops expanding NATO, stops deploying missile defense in Europe), but is willing to break the US Constitution to spy on his own country.

Yay hopenchange!

America needs to own up to its mistakes... (4, Insightful)

dryriver (1010635) | about a year ago | (#44499503)

Come on, America. You let the whole world use the internet for over a decade, with everyone thinking/believing that their data is reasonably private. Now it turns out that - oops - you built giant digital systems capable of eavesdropping on, essentially, everybody; the whole fricking world. That is/was a SERIOUS mistake. Mistakes of this magnitude can only be fixed by someone credible taking responsibility for what has been done wrong, and seeing to it that the "mistake" in question - the digital snooping system that tracks everybody - being shut down, or at least constrained & regulated better. ---- What does America do instead? It goes after the "Whistleblower" who did something heroic by warning billions of innocent people: "Be careful what you do in the digital world. Your internet/phone data is not private any longer." ------ Own up to your mistakes, America. Then start the process of undoing said mistakes. ---- The cost of not doing this? America will go down in the history books as a superpower-bully, that is morally & ethically not much better than the USSR was in its heydays. ---- Own up to the mistakes. Then fix them.

Re:America needs to own up to its mistakes... (4, Insightful)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | about a year ago | (#44499567)

with everyone thinking/believing that their data is reasonably private.

Everyone? I think not. If anyone believed such a thing, they were simply naive.

Re:America needs to own up to its mistakes... (5, Insightful)

Mitreya (579078) | about a year ago | (#44499583)

Own up to your mistakes, America.

"America" is not a person. Did you mean to say Obama?

When Obama was elected, he made very different promises, including several very emphatic speeches about the need for protecting whistle-blowers. One could argue it was part of the reason he got elected...
Politicians should sign their platform as a contract and be held criminally liable when they deviate from non-ambiguous promises as soon as they actually are elected.

Re:America needs to own up to its mistakes... (4, Insightful)

vadim_t (324782) | about a year ago | (#44499887)

No, I think America is pretty apt here.

Obama isn't the dictator of the US. Congress, lobbyists, the NSA and other people are also at fault here, as well as the general population for not being vigilant enough. This sort of thing doesn't happen just because Obama wants it, other people have to agree.

Re:America needs to own up to its mistakes... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499895)

Well you could say that people who voted for Obama need to own up to their mistakes. Granted, they probably did vote for him to do something different than what he had done, so their responsibility only goes just so far.

On the other hand, the first tip off of how shitty he was going to be was all of those stupid Hope posters going around. It's amazing that even the jaded American consumer can be suckered by slick marketing when they really, really want to believe that something is true, despite all of the evidence to the contrary.

Re:America needs to own up to its mistakes... (2)

Ralph Wiggam (22354) | about a year ago | (#44499637)

You let the whole world use the internet for over a decade, with everyone thinking/believing that their data is reasonably private.

Seriously? When I started using the internet in 1992 as a 14 year old, I assumed that the NSA had access to everything on the internet. The Room 641A story in 2006 pretty much confirmed that.

Re:America needs to own up to its mistakes... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499831)

You seriously ever thought the Internet was secure?

I don't recall the US Government ever saying any such thing. The only thing they've promised to do is run it so that the data goes though, which it does. They never said they wouldn't be able to read it all.

And again with the USSR comparisons. Holy shit, do you people completely lack historical understanding and perspective? Even if the NSA had a complete file on me, including my deepest darkest perversions, I'd prefer to live in the US and not in the USSR. The only reason the USSR looks any better is because they never had an Internet to start with. They didn't make it past the early 90's.

Small and vengeful and afraid (5, Insightful)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year ago | (#44499505)

That is what describes the world's rulers today. This reaction against Snowden and Manning confirm that.

Re:Small and vengeful and afraid (5, Insightful)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about a year ago | (#44499717)

That is what describes the world's rulers today. This reaction against Snowden and Manning confirm that.

The only mistake here is it sounds like this may have been different in the past. If there was ever any pretension that it was different, the Whiskey Rebellion should have put an end to that and the Alien and Sedition Acts confirmed it.

At this point the veneer has just worn so thin that most people can see through the façade. Perhaps propaganda is a lost art, or maybe the People just have better communications tools and won't have the wool pulled over their eyes any longer by a fascist media establishment.

BTW, you forgot 'hypocritical'. The USG is still sheltering Luis Posada Carriles [wikipedia.org] (just one example). Meanwhile it wants Snowden back when every likelihood is he'll be tortured like Manning was (independently determined by Amnesty International, the UN, and the EU ministers).

Re:Small and vengeful and afraid (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44500025)

I'm not sure how trying to arrest someone who is giving up Top Secret materials is "small and vengeful". He did something technically much more illegal than what Manning did. They want his ass back so that he doesn't turn into a faucet of even more classified material. Just because you want to see that stuff doesn't mean that the government just stops enforcing the law.

In fact, I'd wonder what the hell was going on if they didn't try and arrest these guys. Sure, they might have had a good reason to do it, but presumably someone made a determination that this material could be dangerous or damaging. If they want to argue that it wasn't, they can easily do that in a courtroom.

You're reading these actions in light of your own narrative of the government as being wrong. The government doesn't agree with you, and in any event, has a responsibility to enforce the law. It's no more vengeful than trying to get any other wanted person back here for trial.

Assange vs Mannings vs Snowden vs Greenwald (1, Interesting)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | about a year ago | (#44499509)

I can see how both Mannings and Snowden have broken the law. If you work in intelligence or in the army you cannot expect to get away with that. You need to be a journalist I guess. What are the chances for Snowden to avoid going to prison if he returns home? Zero. Therefore it is quite clear Snowden will try to avoid it, no matter how ''correct' or 'righteous' he may be.

Should the journalist Greenwald publish what they have? Well, isn't it his job to do so?

Is Assange a journalist? Hmmm. In a way, I guess. At least a hard-to-tell-kind-of-guy with a penchant for reluctant women yet locked up in an Ecuadorian dump.

Re:Assange vs Mannings vs Snowden vs Greenwald (3, Insightful)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#44499601)

What are the chances for Snowden to avoid going to prison if he returns home? Zero. Therefore it is quite clear Snowden will try to avoid it, no matter how ''correct' or 'righteous' he may be.

Not necessarily. I don't know that I agree with the view, but there is another: Give Snowden Immunity [nationalreview.com]

Re:Assange vs Mannings vs Snowden vs Greenwald (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about a year ago | (#44499773)

Is Assange a journalist?

I'd say yes, but remember, he wasn't always in favor of leaks [postgresql.org] .

Re:Assange vs Mannings vs Snowden vs Greenwald (4, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | about a year ago | (#44499943)

I can see how both Mannings and Snowden have broken the law.

So has Obama. He deserves the same treatment Manning and Snowden will receive.

an extradction treaty (1)

Max_W (812974) | about a year ago | (#44499525)

I know that Russian government has been asking the US government for years to conclude an extradition treaty. The US always refuses.

It is understandable why. And in this case it is also, sort of, understandable.

Such figures as Pussy Riot, Snowden, etc. were a good news story weeks. They entertained us. Is it fair instead of a payment for the show to put them in cages?

Translation ... (5, Interesting)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year ago | (#44499535)

we have informed the Russian Government that we believe it would be more constructive to postpone the summit until we have more results from our shared agenda

He of the "Nobel Peace Prize for nothing more than saying he'd be interested in talking" is taking his ball and going home until the US gets their way.

I'm not saying Russia isn't moving a little backwards over the last bunch of years, but let's not pretend that the US wouldn't grant asylum to someone leaving Russia under similar circumstances and call it defending freedom and liberty.

I view this as a diplomatic temper tantrum. 'Shared Agenda' in modern US diplomatic speak is code for "what we want".

I think you might see more and more countries deciding they are tired of being strong-armed into complying with what the US wants. Especially with the revelations of just exactly the scope of their spying and other activities.

This is like the guy you discovered screwing your wife cancelling your dinner invitation because you hurt his feelings when you kicked him out of your house -- there's a lot of "woe is us", but don't keep playing that victim card too much.

Re:Translation ... (4, Insightful)

Mitreya (579078) | about a year ago | (#44499703)

He of the "Nobel Peace Prize for nothing more than saying he'd be interested in talking"

Oh, no!
Nobel Peace Prize for nothing more than being not Bush

US wouldn't grant asylum to someone leaving Russia under similar circumstances and call it defending freedom and liberty

I do not disagree with you, but Russia probably wouldn't be embarrassed by someone like Snowden coming forward. They don't pretend to be "free".

Re:Translation ... (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year ago | (#44499809)

but Russia probably wouldn't be embarrassed by someone like Snowden coming forward. They don't pretend to be "free".

No, but they'd make the same bluster about making sure he stands trial and being a traitor the US is making now.

And, as I said, in the same situation, the US probably would (and likely has) grant asylum to someone fleeing Russia. And then it just becomes more hypocrisy .

Re:Translation ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499991)

He of the "Nobel Peace Prize for nothing more than saying he'd be interested in talking" is taking his ball and going home until the US gets their way.

Actually, he's taking his ball and going to Sweden.

Public vs. Private Discussions (5, Insightful)

khr (708262) | about a year ago | (#44499541)

The Brazilian government is showing much more anger in public than it is showing in private discussions with the U.S. government

Private discussions are probably much more along the lines of "How much do you charge? Can we get a discount on this technology?"

"If you won't play MY way, I'M GOING HOME!" (5, Insightful)

wierd_w (1375923) | about a year ago | (#44499553)

Is president Obama going to throw a little temper tantrum too? Perhaps stamp his little feet, and hold his breath until he turns purple?
--Maybe he will tell his mommy, or the secret service!

Seriously. Tactics like this (Cancelling a peace negotiation summit, over ASYLUM being GRANTED!) only serve to clearly demonstrate that Obama was never interested in peaceful relations with Russia, only with getting its way. All it does is say loud and clear to Putin that his distrust of the US missile infrastructure being constructed in the middle east is indeed a threat to russian national security, that the US is unwilling to have to compromise on anything.

If they cant play by their rules, they will stop their feet, cry, and go home.

This is the fucking pinnacle of childishness.

Re:"If you won't play MY way, I'M GOING HOME!" (3, Insightful)

tnk1 (899206) | about a year ago | (#44500095)

If you read even the summary, you know that the summit wasn't just cancelled for the asylum thing. They were probably going to cancel it anyway, because there are some big disagreements on the summit items. It just so happens that they can sneak in a notice of the US government's public displeasure while cancelling for other reasons.

That's what we call "diplomacy". It's basically cheap shots over wine and cheese.

Congress considers Snowdon to be a whistleblower (5, Informative)

umafuckit (2980809) | about a year ago | (#44499641)

Congress clearly considers Snowden to be a whistleblower, or they wouldn't be voting on proposals to restrict the activity of the NSA http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/07/24/plan-to-defund-nsa-phone-collection-program-has-broad-support-sponsor-says/ [washingtonpost.com] Yet Obama continues to label Snowden's actions as espionage. He knows this bullshit, because apparently he's taken down from the internet his promise to protect whistleblowers http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/26/obama-whistleblower-website_n_3658815.html [huffingtonpost.com] Good thing we have the Way Back Machine, then, isn't it? http://web.archive.org/web/20090227184741/http://change.gov/agenda/ethics_agenda/ [archive.org]

Re:Congress considers Snowdon to be a whistleblowe (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44500063)

You confuse "believes there was illegal activity so Snowden is a whistleblower" with "knew what was going on and that it was not illegal and are now acting to cover their asses from the masses".

Re:Congress considers Snowdon to be a whistleblowe (5, Informative)

Ralph Wiggam (22354) | about a year ago | (#44500073)

Yet Obama continues to label Snowden's actions as espionage

Snowden has been charged with two things- theft of government property (4 laptops) and giving classified information to a person without security clearance. The later charge was created by the Espionage Act of 1917. It is not "espionage" in any common use of the word. Nobody, including Snowden, has denied that he did those things.

It is Obama and the Executive Branch's job to enforce existing law. They're doing that. If the Judicial Branch rules that Snowden's actions were justified, then he'll walk free.

That explains a lot (5, Interesting)

Rougement (975188) | about a year ago | (#44499661)

The White House has been unbelievably quiet through all of this. First, Obama "welcomed" a discussion. Then, he got caught lying with "the nobody is reading your emails" line. Then, Clapper got caught lying. I think they're keeping quiet because they have a good idea what is coming next. They can't afford to get caught lying again.

Re:That explains a lot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499925)

Or the left hand has no idea what the right hand has been up to, but the cookie jar just slammed shut on it and world turned ugly.

Greenwald won't survive (1)

jlbprof (760036) | about a year ago | (#44499743)

Greenwald will be dead before this is released. An accident of course.

Anger in public (4, Funny)

PPH (736903) | about a year ago | (#44499753)

Its all a show to reassure their respective citizens that they are complying with the laws and looking out for their best interests.

Captain Renault: "I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"

Croupier: "Your winnings, sir."

US-Russia? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499755)

"The Brazilian government is showing much more anger in public than it is showing in private discussions with the U.S. government. All governments are doing this, even in Europe."

I wonder if this also describes the US-Russia relationship that is being portrayed in public, compared to the discussions being had in private.

I don't believe in god... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499767)

But god save us all. Will this madness end? What the fuck is wrong with the world? Cancellation of the Russia summit? I hope the holy fist of baby Jesus punches these clowns in the face. There is nothing intelligible to add to this nonsense. We are all just watching it unravel in fear. :(

TLDR: "Fuck."

someone declare war already (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499843)

someone declare war on the USA so i can move to where you are and enlist

The case of the 29 year old hacker (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44499845)

What was it Obama said again about scrambling jets to get a 29 year old hacker?

Amusing to see administration now activly throwing stones at US / Russia relations for an issue not worth a few thousand pounds of jet fuel.

Hope (3, Insightful)

ThatsNotPudding (1045640) | about a year ago | (#44499891)

I only hope Greenwald and his colleagues at The Guardian have also setup a Dead Man's switch to release everything worldwide in case of some 'tragic accident' ala Michael Hastings.

Otherwise, by saying 'in ten days', he's only started the countdown clock to his execution.

Russia acted admirably in regards to Snowden (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44500097)

it seems like most of the world, excluding us politicians/warwhores, really feels snowden acted. responsibly and in good faith. despite Snowdens motives do not loose sight of the fact that the NSA has redefined the law to suit their needs regarding metadata capture. this is not acceptable and needs to be answered by top brass. the NSA is not the law but they are acting as if.

regarding obamas playground tactics, that is very poor. he cannot deny the NSA has acted outside the law yet he pretends the problem is with Putin and his decisions. this is the act of a coward and politician and not a man with a conscience. at least Putin considered Snowden does have some rights regardless. tricky as this was to navigate politically I think Russia did the right thing and did so with prudence and regard.

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