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Finance Firm Bloomberg Goes In For $80,000 On Ubuntu Edge Project

timothy posted about 9 months ago | from the pricetag-schmicetag dept.

Cellphones 98

DW100 writes "Ubuntu has secured a surprise enterprise backer of its $32m Edge smartphone crowd-funding push with corporate powerhouse Bloomberg signing up for the top tier Enterprise 100 package, worth $80,000. Chief technology officer at Bloomberg Shawn Edwards said the firm wanted to give its support to the innovative open source project as it could have real benefits for its IT workforce." Adds reader nk497: "So far the campaign has raised $8.5 million and has two weeks left to run. Individuals can buy the smartphone-cum-PC for $780 at the moment, but Canonical is also offering business bundles of 100 handsets, including a month of support, for $80,000. Bloomberg is the first business to opt for the bundle — but it will get its money back if the project isn't fully funded." Update: 08/08 12:58 GMT by T : One more note: Canonical has dropped the price to $695 for the remainder of the fundraising campaign.

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98 comments

Ubuntu Edge now $695, thanks to industry backing. (3, Interesting)

Janek Kozicki (722688) | about 9 months ago | (#44508145)

These news are already outdated. Ubuntu edge is now selling for $695.

With 14 days to go, it’s time for our biggest announcement yet. From now until the end of the campaign, we’re fixing the price of the Ubuntu Edge at $695! No limited quantities, no more price changes. You wanted a more affordable Edge, and now you’ve got it. [indiegogo.com]

So of course we’re passing those savings on to you. There’s now a single unlimited $695 Ubuntu Edge perk, which comes with a year’s subscription to LastPass Premium and a place on the Founders page. At the end of the campaign, anyone who’s already pledged more than $695 for the phone will be offered a refund of the difference.

Re:Ubuntu Edge now $695, thanks to industry backin (1)

MBGMorden (803437) | about 9 months ago | (#44513125)

$695 is still way too high.

We have an unproven device here. Nobody knows how well this thing will work or how well it'll be supported. People are willing to play around with things, but not at this price point. The OUYA is $99. That's worth taking a risk on. The Raspberry Pi is $35. Those little Android "Mini-PC's" are about $45. Those are cheap enough to play around on.

The market seems to have spoken and the price point for a device to play around with seems to be about $50-100. Much above that we're getting into "real money" territory, and people aren't so quick to gamble on a device there. They want solid support, but more importantly they're going to want it to be out already so that they can read reviews and such to see how well it works.

Re:Ubuntu Edge now $695, thanks to industry backin (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44513925)

You are delusional. Add the cost of the parts (even bulk) and compare.

Re:Ubuntu Edge now $695, thanks to industry backin (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44514929)

$238/piece ...and maybe one or two Foxconn suicides.

Re:Ubuntu Edge now $695, thanks to industry backin (1)

MBGMorden (803437) | about 9 months ago | (#44516585)

You make the mistake of assuming that just because the parts cost a certain amount that the public should buy it.

If the sum total value of the parts is above what the market would normally pay then they didn't design the device well. I could build a minivan with a V12 engine and slap an insane pricetag on it but that doesn't mean that its a good value.

If their hardware requires a purchase price anywhere near $700 then they should have scaled it back a little. I'll concede that this thing needs a cellular antenna and a touchscreen so it'll have to cost a bit more than the devices I specified, but to have a chance it should be well under half what they're asking.

Re:Ubuntu Edge now $695, thanks to industry backin (1)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | about 9 months ago | (#44515733)

$695 is still way too high.

There are many ways to set price. There's a range between cost (nobody will build it for less) and the maximum value someone can get out of it (no point in buying something for more). You don't show in any way it's outside this. The real question is the value that you can get out of it. That's what should decide how much you can pay for it. You need to compare it with other similar devices, not a bunch of non wireless enabled development boards.

In my view the device is new, but the fundamentals of the value are something we have seen before. I guess there are three devices to look at; OpenMoko, the Nokia N900 and the Nokia N9. There are a bunch of things which would work on those devices which are impractical on other devices. Here are some ideas off the top of my head; maybe other people can add theirs:

  • Normally your WiFi and other power consuming parts are off; when the phone detects that it arrives in the base station near your home (requires low level device modem access; was implemented on N900) then it turns on the WiFi, forwards your mobile calls to your VOIP account and turns off the mobile network.
  • You can trigger shell scripts when you enter locations - backup and copy media at home;
  • All your security audit tools - nmap / nessus / etc. can be installed

Compare these ideas with the closed competition. Windows phones, where you can't even really jail-break, are the worst it is true. iOS phones are also pretty limited (software from the app store only unless you get a developer key) but even Android phones which are supposed to be "open" end up as garbage here. Instead of having the full GNU/Linux you are limited to just small bits re-implemented by Google.

If you want to develop new personal device or wireless network ideas, this is going to be worth thousands of dollars to you. Even if you just want a device which does what you tell it to then it's likely to be worth hundreds more.

If you aren't a developer; you don't have any ideas about how to do something with wireless devices and you don't need a portable computing device, then you may well be right, it's not worth it to you. For a person who just uses it as a phone/PC, the competition would be something like a Samsung S4 - on sale for something like $600. In that case your questions about the level of testing would really matter. For most of the people who read this site, though, it's a chance to get a device which will be able to do things no other current device can do and that can really be worth much more than Canonical are asking for it.

Yeah, but who would buy a smartphone (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44508189)

that has custom operating software that prevents you from ordering soft drinks?

Re:Yeah, but who would buy a smartphone (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44508241)

It doesn't let you order anything but small sodas, but as a side benefit you can use it to access the browsing history of any wallstreet trader! You have to look at the big picture.

Re: Yeah, but who would buy a smartphone (1)

O('_')O_Bush (1162487) | about 9 months ago | (#44508547)

The specs are pretty good (sans the sapphire glass), but they really should have done a better job explaining if the phone will save consumers money on their cell/data plans. Because other than the dual boot feature (not something I'm even sure I want without lots of BIOS control), I'm not sure what separates this from most Android phones, except for storage capacity (which I've never been restricted by), and battery life (not an issue with my RAZR Maxx).

Obviously, there is some additional flexibility if you are disillusioned with your provider, but I am at least content enough with mine that I don't want to go with the devil I don't know.

Anyone care to explain advantages to an average Joe (probably the biggest smartphone market audience) like me?

Re: Yeah, but who would buy a smartphone (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 9 months ago | (#44508917)

How is this different than any other phone you buy outright?

You could save money, if your provider offers such a deal. T-mobile does for example. AT&T does not directly, but you could buy their service through another provider like StraightTalk.

If your current carrier is VZW you are out of luck. This will be a GSM/LTE device. CDMA carriers, VZW especially, are extremely hostile to outside devices. This can easily be seen with the update situation on the Sprint and VZW Galaxy Nexus devices that always lag behind with updates.

What is your concern with sapphire glass? It should be a big improvement over what is used on phones now.

Re: Yeah, but who would buy a smartphone (3, Informative)

jeffmeden (135043) | about 9 months ago | (#44508973)

What is your concern with sapphire glass? It should be a big improvement over what is used on phones now.

Sapphire glass is *more* brittle than Gorilla Glass, so if you thought edge-drop screen shatters were a problem before, watch out. You will never be able to scratch the screen, but it will be so sensitive to shock that you will need substantial protection anyway.

Re: Yeah, but who would buy a smartphone (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 9 months ago | (#44509019)

So be a responsible adult?
Are you playing catch with these things?

I have never placed a case or "screen protector" on any of my smartphones or tablets. So far they are all intact.

I want the screen to be as hard as is possible. Brittleness is not an issue unless it comes to the point you can't touch the thing.

Re: Yeah, but who would buy a smartphone (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44511445)

So be a responsible adult?
Are you playing catch with these things?

I have never placed a case or "screen protector" on any of my smartphones or tablets. So far they are all intact.

I want the screen to be as hard as is possible. Brittleness is not an issue unless it comes to the point you can't touch the thing.

Gorilla glass does pretty good in that regard: I too have no use for extra covers or protectors on any of my GG-equipped handhelds because I keep them pretty safe. But, by and large people do tend to drop/sit on/hit their phones, often resulting in shattered screens. Sapphire glass would result in a phone that passes the "purse test" better than a GG screen, but as soon as your 2 year old grabs it and drops it on the floor it will be toast.

Re: Yeah, but who would buy a smartphone (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about 9 months ago | (#44509041)

Eh, I'd use an Otter Box around it anyway, with a rubber around that, and an old truck tire around that.

So it doesn't fit in my pocket anymore, big deal.

Re: Yeah, but who would buy a smartphone (2)

MrEricSir (398214) | about 9 months ago | (#44512251)

How is this different than any other phone you buy outright?

How many other phones double as a desktop computer?

Re: Yeah, but who would buy a smartphone (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44509143)

What separates this from most Android phones is that they claim you get a desktop PC as well. BUT ...

they cannot explain this outright because they haven't figured out all the details themselves. For example, what happens if you are in the middle of some desktop fiddling when a call comes in? Second, are there plans for any kind of docking station? Where would I plug in all my desktop peripherals? This is not the first time a smartphone/desktop hybrid is planned and so far everything was just crap. There are just too many open and unanswered questions for me to bet my money on something that may or may not turn out okay.

Re: Yeah, but who would buy a smartphone (1)

Teun (17872) | about 9 months ago | (#44509605)

Your question probably has the US market as starting point, like in Europe it is very common to buy the phone and then shop around for a plan. This phone would fit such nicely, which makes me wonder why people outside of the UK have to pay $30 (US!) extra for shipping.
This is something the average EU Joe understands

I've never had a phone as part of a plan, halfway through the contract these subsidised phones get expensive.
Yes I'd love a phone that's not tied to Google and does run an unrestricted version of Linux plus a somewhat regular Linux desktop.
The GNU/Linux environment has so much nice software on offer and being able to just install it via an apt-get is for me The Killer.
My present Nexus-4 is only months old but because of the shortcomings of Android and the attraction of Linux I'm seriously contemplating signing in on this deal

Like on day one I would install KDE. :)

Free publicity (4, Insightful)

Arrepiadd (688829) | about 9 months ago | (#44508197)

Bloomberg is the first business to opt for the bundle — but it will get its money back if the project isn't fully funded.

This is no more than free publicity for Bloomberg then. They're pledging to give 80 thousand USD to a project if it gets fully funded. Said project after getting 7 million in the first 24 or 48 hours, has only managed to go up 1 more million in two weeks. And it needs 24 million more in the next two weeks!

Chances of actually having to give the 80 kUSD... close to 0. Free publicity... a lot!

Re:Free publicity (2)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about 9 months ago | (#44508297)

Not that I'm being hopeful or unhopeful (I'm not interested in this project - I'm happy with my smartphone already) it's actually quite common for massive amounts of money to come in at the start of a crowdsourcing project, and then after a big initial rush things slow to a trickle until you get near the end. Will they reach their goal? Who knows, but slowing down like this at this point in time is normal, (and I assume expected) successful projects and failed projects alike.

Re:Free publicity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44508349)

Problem, many people have no problem 'donating' 20$. more than 200$ - big difference.
ubuntu phone will fail...

Re:Free publicity (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 9 months ago | (#44508951)

I hope at the very least all this software will be released for the current android devices they are testing on.

If I could turn any GSM galaxy nexus/nexus 4 into an ubuntu phone and be able to dock it to a monitor to get a full desktop I would do that in a heartbeat. I know they did some sort of release before but I did not think it supported the docked desktop software.

Re:Free publicity (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44508957)

if ubuntu edge had followed that typica pattern they would have needed close to 12 million in the first 4 days (a certain %age must be mest before it's "ok" for the donations to slow down in order to maintain interest/hype), then it might have been viable to have a trickle and a final surge. Ubuntu edge so far has nothing in common with any successful kickstarter (look at kicktraq for comparative charts).

Re:Free publicity (1)

Arrepiadd (688829) | about 9 months ago | (#44509977)

but slowing down like this at this point in time is normal, (and I assume expected) successful projects and failed projects alike.

I totally agree with you, this slow down is expected. But, whereas some projects that get funded will have this slowdown close to or already after their goal* [slashdot.org] if at all, the Ubuntu Edge project is stalled at about one third of their stated goal. We can safely assume that everyone wanting a Ubuntu Edge, knowing about it, and with the money for it already donated. There will be no geeks pledging for the phone at the last minute. So, either at the end someone with lots of funds (and possibly connected to Canonical) just orders around 30 thousand of these phones so that the goal is met, or this campaign will fail.

* NOTE: I'm not trying to focus on the issues discussed on the Slashdot thread I linked to. Merely to the money they made relative to their goal.

Re:Free publicity (1)

Knuckles (8964) | about 9 months ago | (#44512001)

We can safely assume that everyone wanting a Ubuntu Edge, knowing about it, and with the money for it already donated.

I'd be surprised if they make their goal (though it was a good effort anyway), no, you cannot safely assume that.

Do they really want the money? (1)

MikeVx (627293) | about 9 months ago | (#44516157)

We can safely assume that everyone wanting a Ubuntu Edge, knowing about it, and with the money for it already donated. There will be no geeks pledging for the phone at the last minute. So, either at the end someone with lots of funds (and possibly connected to Canonical) just orders around 30 thousand of these phones so that the goal is met, or this campaign will fail.

Well, I just tried to get in on this, but after arguing with the site for an hour I finally had to boot a special VM with no network security of any kind before it would even let me try to send money.

Then I am confronted with PayPal.

No toy, no matter how cool, is worth that. I wonder how much that has cost them?

Re:Free publicity (1)

Baloroth (2370816) | about 9 months ago | (#44510099)

True, there is usually a jump towards the end, but (in my experience, anyways) about 1/3rd of the total funding comes in the first few days, and about half of it by half-way through (a fairly typically big-budget well-announced crowdfunded project looks like this curve [kicktraq.com] , in my experience). This announcement could result in a significant boost, but not a 24 million dollar boost. No way. At most, I'd predict they'll reach $16 million (a more reasonable guess is around $13 million), which is fantastic for a crowd-funded project. $32 million just won't happen.

Re:Free publicity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44508675)

It reminds me of listening to ball games on the radio and being told "Insurance company X will donate $100 to the local charity for every home run hit by a home team player in lineup positions 3 through 6... up to a maximum of $50,000 per season."

Whatever happened to just buying a spot?

Re:Free publicity (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44509129)

Bullshit. The most money always comes in at the end. Just like on eBay.

But yeah, 24 *million*? Lol, ain't gonna happen. Not for a group of people that openly and actively doesn't give a shit about its users, and obsessively dumbs everything down to a level where even iTards deem it too simplistic and retarded. And that is saying something!

Re:Free publicity (1)

MrEricSir (398214) | about 9 months ago | (#44512279)

This is no more than free publicity for Bloomberg then.

Gee, you mean companies don't really spend $80,000 on unproven hardware, sight unseen?

Why I won't support this? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44508341)

1. BAM! It's freaking expensive
2. BAM! It's exclusive for supporters and not for sale
3. BAM! Android integrated instead of Standalone
4. BAM! Not full free (open) Software

They should have done a multi tier campain of fully free software compatible devices. low-middle-high end devices. I and surely a lot of other People really want a NON-ANDROID device, it could very well be ugly Ubuntu Unity (uUU) but what's the point if it's not avaible outside of the funding campain?

There are many good looking, high performant, closed, NSA spydevices avaible and there is no reason to invest to build another one. By the time they build it, everyone else probably has the same specs anyway.

Android isn't bad to use with mouse and keyboard, too, and I can chroot in any Linux Distro I want...

Ubuntu Edge simply doesn't bring anything of value to the table. Everyone involved should be ashamed to be such uncreative maggots.

Re:Why I won't support this? (1)

ssam (2723487) | about 9 months ago | (#44508409)

the default OS on the phone is ubuntu. You can also install android if you want. you can even dual boot if you want.

or are you saying you want a phone that can't run android?

Re:Why I won't support this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44508461)

Android is designed to exploid it's users Data. Preloading it on a device only shows you cannot trust the company that did it.

Re:Why I won't support this? (1)

ssam (2723487) | about 9 months ago | (#44508569)

i guess you are using an openmoko?

Re:Why I won't support this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44508637)

No, for various different reasons. Openmoko is a failed Project in my view but since it isn't related to Ubuntu Edge this answer is good enough.

Re: Why I won't support this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44512401)

Welcome to the real world, where we have such a wide range of options as Symbian (in all its flavors), MeeGo, Blackberry, and WebOS.*

All OSes that have been produced by real companies at real scale, without the compromises resulting from the collision of hardware or software freedom dogma with real-world business practices, which makes them far more practical choices than OpenMoko. Now for people who are sufficiently concerned about software freedom (or the very few nutters who are sufficiently concerned with hardware freedom, as though they hope to build 4-layer PCBs in their garage), OpenMoko may still be the better choice, but GP's stated issue with Android wasn't about software freedom (note that AOSP is free software, though not copyleft), but about Google "exploiding" [sic] their users' information.

All of the OSes listed above were produced by companies who sell phones, and plan to compete by making that phone more functional with better software. Android, OTOH, is produced and offered to the world for free by a company who doesn't primarily sell phones, but rents it's users' eyeballs to advertisers, and makes those eyeballs more valuable by exploiting the users' data to match users with the ads that will be most effective on them. Android is just the bait to get you into the Google ecosystem, so they can collect more data and rent your eyeballs out. Personally, I don't have a problem with that, as long as they keep the bait tasty enough, but if you can't see the difference (and thus, see the wide range of commercial phones answering GP's objection as well as OpenMoko) you're truly blind.

*If you've read the whole way to here and are wondering why iOS and WP8 didn't make the list... early versions certainly were centered around selling phones, but there's some controversy that, in the current versions of each, they're trying to beat Google in part by behaving like Google, e.g. relying on cloud services and ad frameworks for "free" apps, and I'd simply rather not become embroiled in those arguments. The point is, the OSes listed all disprove the Android/OpenMoko false dichotomy, not that they are the only alternatives.

Re:Why I won't support this? (1)

Shavano (2541114) | about 9 months ago | (#44508689)

When will this phone be delivered? Right now, it's vaporware with no promise of a delivery date and specifications subject to change.

Re:Why I won't support this? (2)

Knuckles (8964) | about 9 months ago | (#44512035)

The date is right there on the indiegogo page. Vaporware maybe, but you could say that for nearly every crowdsourced project.

Re:Why I won't support this? (1)

Shavano (2541114) | about 9 months ago | (#44516053)

The date is right there on the indiegogo page.

1. That's a target date, not a commitment. If they miss it by two years, what is your recourse?

Vaporware maybe, but you could say that for nearly every crowdsourced project.

2. Yeah, I could, couldn't I? But I only object to the commerical crowdsourced projects. If people want to ask for contributions to crowdsource something that's for the common good, I'll consider it. If they want to crowdsource a project for their own profit, where's my cut?

Re:Why I won't support this? (1)

Knuckles (8964) | about 8 months ago | (#44517775)

1. That's a target date, not a commitment. If they miss it by two years, what is your recourse?

Your are changing the argument. In the post I replied to you had said, "no promise of a delivery date". The target date seems a promise of a delivery date: "expected delivery in May 2014". And what's your recourse? You could check with indiegogo.

2. Yeah, I could, couldn't I? But I only object to the commerical crowdsourced projects. If people want to ask for contributions to crowdsource something that's for the common good, I'll consider it. If they want to crowdsource a project for their own profit, where's my cut?

Your cut is to get something you want that otherwise may never see the light of day. It carries a risk like every investment.

Re:Why I won't support this? (1)

Shavano (2541114) | about 8 months ago | (#44526687)

1. That's a target date, not a commitment. If they miss it by two years, what is your recourse?

Your are changing the argument. In the post I replied to you had said, "no promise of a delivery date". The target date seems a promise of a delivery date: "expected delivery in May 2014". And what's your recourse? You could check with indiegogo.

2. Yeah, I could, couldn't I? But I only object to the commerical crowdsourced projects. If people want to ask for contributions to crowdsource something that's for the common good, I'll consider it. If they want to crowdsource a project for their own profit, where's my cut?

Your cut is to get something you want that otherwise may never see the light of day. It carries a risk like every investment.

There's one born every minute.

Re:Why I won't support this? (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about 9 months ago | (#44508717)

the default OS on the phone is ubuntu. You can also install android if you want. you can even dual boot if you want.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.
it SHIPS with android. it's an ANDROID PHONE.

they promise that after they ship it they will ship ubuntu os sometime. at launch you can just use the regular ubuntu android app.

Re:Why I won't support this? (2)

dominux (731134) | about 9 months ago | (#44512099)

wrong wrong wrong wrong

it ships (if it does) with a dual boot Ubuntu Touch/Android setup. If you boot into Android you can plug in an HDMI monitor and run Ubuntu desktop on the big screen sharing some stuff between the Ubuntu Desktop operating system and the Android operating system. They promise that sometime after launch they will do the desktop OS trick alongside Ubuntu Touch as well as alongside Android.

So this is an Ubuntu Touch phone, and an Android phone from day 1. If you want to start the Ubuntu Desktop then you can do that from day 1 if you booted into Android and at some point you will be able to start the Ubuntu Desktop from Ubuntu Touch.

So yeah, it is a bit complicated, and has two more operating environments than a phone needs, but if you are going to correct people you do have a bit of an obligation to get your facts in order.

Re:Why I won't support this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44509529)

Emeril? Is that you?

Not "buying" (0)

DogDude (805747) | about 9 months ago | (#44508433)

Nobody is "buying" anything. These are donations to a private, for-profit corporation, in the hopes that said corporation will send a phone, if they can and do end up making them.

Ah, fuck it. I really thought that this whole Kickstarter donation thing would go away once people wised up, but I suppose that these donation scams are much like multi-level marketing and other scams... for every people who figures out that it's a scam, there are two more that get sucked into the stupidity. I really wish that I had less of a conscience so that I could take advantage of all of these suckers. It's got to be the simplest, most lucrative scam in history, as far as I can tell.

Re:Not "buying" (2)

Charles Duffy (2856687) | about 9 months ago | (#44508595)

Not much for reading the fine print? Kickstarter's terms are such that legal action is entirely possible for a backed project which doesn't result in reward delivery. So -- no, not a donation, a time-delayed purchase.

Re:Not "buying" (2)

evilRhino (638506) | about 9 months ago | (#44508835)

Why the hate? This campaign is not on Kickstarter, it's on Indiegogo. Secondly, if they don't raise enough money to make it happen, contributors get their money back.

Re:Not "buying" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44537571)

I suggest more careful reading -- it was the parent with the hate.

Re:Not "buying" (1)

ssam (2723487) | about 9 months ago | (#44508617)

if they don't make the target you get refunded.

if they do make the target, take the money and don't deliver the phone, then i think people will storm the offices.

Re:Not "buying" (1)

zAPPzAPP (1207370) | about 9 months ago | (#44508713)

'storm the offices' is a weird legal strategy.

So if not for that small moral issue, they are free to take the money and do whatever the hell they want with it?

Re:Not "buying" (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 9 months ago | (#44509049)

If they feel like driving their company into the ground sure. If they stole the money Canonical would be out of business in a matter of months.

 

Re:Not "buying" (1)

bsea (3012993) | about 9 months ago | (#44508629)

That's neat. Every project I've donated to has produced a product, and I got what I wanted in the mail.

Re:Not "buying" (1)

Shavano (2541114) | about 9 months ago | (#44508733)

You and me both, baby. My donations are restricted to not-for-profit organizations with a charitable mission. If you give money to a for-profit company, it should be either a PURCHASE for a product that contractually must be delivered and must meet the specifications advertised or it's an INVESTMENT for which you get a share of company profits (if any).

Re:Not "buying" (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 9 months ago | (#44509113)

Good for you.

Personally, I bet more of those not for profits are scams than kickstarter drives. For a great example pick a random large charity and find out what their execs make. If you are fine with that, check their overhead costs. There are charities spending less than 30% of their funds on charitable activities.

With kickstarter you are paying for a product to be hopefully created, this means there is risk involved but this may be the only way such a product is ever created. If you don't like that then simply do not participate. There is no reason to expect others to share your views.

Re:Not "buying" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44509277)

The smaller the charity the bigger the overhead. That's why small charities "starve", and large charities pay ridiculous money to their execs

Re:Not "buying" (1)

petermgreen (876956) | about 9 months ago | (#44508901)

Have you read kickstarter's or indigogo's terms lately? both obligate those running campaigns to provide or refund any rewards if the campaign is funded.

Now of course there is still some risk for the consumers, for example there is the risk that the legal entity running the campaign could go bankrupt. There is also the risk that you will get a reward that technically fits the promise but is actually a peice of shit. Is that risk worth it? it depends on the campaign (personally i'm going to say no in this case but I can see how others could have other opinions).

Re:Not "buying" (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 9 months ago | (#44508995)

I have crowd funded some games and they are nearly released. From all known data they will ship on time.

Could some of these projects fail? Sure, but this is not a scam. To be a scam they would have to plan on failing.

I would not give to DogDude's kickstarter because I have no idea who you are and you have no track record. Once I heard Stainless Games was making a new Carmageddon they had their money as quick as I could hand it over.

Agenda, hidden ? (1)

vikingpower (768921) | about 9 months ago | (#44508435)

Apart from the free publicity for Bloomberg ( which, at at a $ 80000 ticket, comes in really cheap ), where is BB's hidden agenda ??

Latin (0)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 9 months ago | (#44508495)

"Individuals can buy the smartphone-cum-PC"

Using Latin in a place where it's not needed and has no historical ties (as "cum laude" would) is stupid. Using the one Latin word that's also English for "jizz" just makes you look like a moron. Unless you like using video chat for... stickier activities than most people.

Re:Latin (1)

oodaloop (1229816) | about 9 months ago | (#44508661)

God, I am so sick of Latin. ROMANES EUNT DOMUS!

Re:Latin (1)

H0p313ss (811249) | about 9 months ago | (#44510387)

God, I am so sick of Latin. ROMANES EUNT DOMUS!

What have the Romans ever done for us?

Re:Latin (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | about 9 months ago | (#44510917)

Apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health?

Re:Latin (1)

H0p313ss (811249) | about 9 months ago | (#44513017)

Apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health?

Yeah, they certainly know how to keep order. Let's face it. They're the only ones who could in a place like this.

FSF questions (4, Interesting)

santiagoanders (1357681) | about 9 months ago | (#44508527)

Were the following questions by the FSF ever answered?

"Will the Ubuntu Edge versions of both Android and Ubuntu contain or rely on any proprietary software or proprietary firmware?"

"Will the Ubuntu Edge include any Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) software?"

"Will the device's bootloader be free software?"

"Will the device have Restricted Boot, or will users be able to replace the operating system with a free one of their choice?"

"Will Ubuntu Edge include F-Droid, the free software Android application repository, as part of a commitment to promote and recommend only free software?"

Re:FSF questions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44508577)

No, because Canonical doesn't give a flying f**k about freedom.

Re:FSF questions (2)

ssam (2723487) | about 9 months ago | (#44508681)

there was a question about open hardware http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1j166z/hi_im_mark_shuttleworth_founder_of_ubuntu/ [reddit.com] that gives you some of the answers

"This first version of the Edge is to prove the concept of crowdsourcing ideas for innovation, backed by crowdfunding. If it gets greenlighted, then I think we'll have an annual process by which the previous generation backers get to vote on the spec for the next generation of Edge.
So in this first generation Edge, no, we didn't look for open hardware specifically. We can choose silicon with more open drivers as we finalise the spec, but again I think the priority for the CPU / GPU will be performance to hit the goal of convergence.
In future generations, it would be great to see if we can do an all-open device, for example."
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1j166z/hi_im_mark_shuttleworth_founder_of_ubuntu/cba2wga [reddit.com]

Re:FSF questions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44508729)

For me this sound like: "lol, no but I say maybe for you this time. ok,lol?"

Re:FSF questions (2, Interesting)

BitZtream (692029) | about 9 months ago | (#44509889)

Dear FSF,

No.

Go make your own phone and distribution instead of demanding everyone do everything exactly like you want.

Seriously, get over yourselves.

I'm not buying into the edge on indiegogo, but if it comes to fruition before Apple does the same thing with OSX and iOS on the iPhone, then I'll be hard pressed not to just switch to Linux. See not everyone in the world is a freetard, some of us just like to get the job done and don't mind paying for it and not always knowing momma's secret receipt.

If you want an FSF phone/PC, then get the FSF to make you one.

Re:FSF questions (1)

santiagoanders (1357681) | about 9 months ago | (#44510091)

I don't care so much if the FSF doesn't like the Ubuntu Edge. I'm OK with closed-source software being on the phone.

I never cared much for smart phones, and I didn't even own one until last year when a friend gave me a bricked LG model. It really bothered me that a modern computer could be "bricked" and I couldn't even fix it without importing a Medusa jtag box with illegal software (under the DMCA).

This is why I was interested in the Ubuntu Edge. An open source boot loader would be awesome.

Re:FSF questions (1)

loki_racer (2982361) | about 9 months ago | (#44510157)

You won't be able to buy it after the campaign. Either you buy it now, or you buy one used from a backer of the campaign. The Edge is not going to retail, anywhere, after the campaign.

Re:FSF questions (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44510859)

No one is demanding anything. Think of the FSF as being interested but discerning, just as some nerds would ask about the spec before contributing money.

The lack of information on software/hardware freedom was certainly the primary reason I didn't pledge.

Re:FSF questions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44511967)

Do you work at Canonical? You're the spitting image of the arrogance and rudeness that company possesses anymore.

Hope this is a giant failure and the Ubuntu distro finally dies off; it is a crime against FOSS and deserves to be forgotten.

Re:FSF questions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44513185)

I can answer those pretty easily

"Will the Ubuntu Edge versions of both Android and Ubuntu contain or rely on any proprietary software or proprietary firmware?"

Yes. Both will rely on proprietary radio and graphics drivers, and possibly proprietary Wi-Fi and Bluetooth drivers.

"Will the Ubuntu Edge include any Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) software?"

Yes.

"Will the device's bootloader be free software?"

Yes.

"Will the device have Restricted Boot, or will users be able to replace the operating system with a free one of their choice?"

No. Canonical has no reason to restrict your choice of operating system. However, any Free operating system will not be able to use the radio (it will have encrypted firmware).

"Will Ubuntu Edge include F-Droid, the free software Android application repository, as part of a commitment to promote and recommend only free software?"

No, this would not promote the Ubuntu branding.

Re:FSF questions (1)

santiagoanders (1357681) | about 9 months ago | (#44513853)

The part about encrypted radio firmware is lame. If you can't make calls from Ubuntu, it's not an "Ubuntu" phone, it's a phone that can also be turned into a less useful tablet-style device.

It's a good investment now (1)

sethotterstad (2947867) | about 9 months ago | (#44508905)

The phone will be worth over $1000 when it ships. I am loading up.

Re:It's a good investment now (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about 9 months ago | (#44509229)

The phone will be worth over $1000 when it ships.

My ass. Who pays over a grand for a cell phone?

I am loading up.

I recommend running that decision past your financial adviser before you finalize it.

Or not - what do I care if you sink your own ship?

What's the message here? (1)

rosencreuz (1393933) | about 9 months ago | (#44509169)

Half an hour after I signed up for $780 I received the email telling it's now $695. Normally prices get lower with time, but this is very awkward, the product is not even in the market. There is a big mix up of crowd sourcing and traditional marketing. Now I'm confused as a consumer and Canonical is confused as... wait, what is Canonical now?

Re:What's the message here? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44509287)

You will be charged the lowest price ($695) even if you signed up for $780

It's a great deal now. (1)

mknewman (557587) | about 9 months ago | (#44509659)

The lower price is a great deal. It's much more powerful than phones currently on the market and is right in the same price range. I don't really understand why sales have stalled as this is going to be 2-3 years ahead of the market. Either that or it will drive the market to produce better phones. I for one bought 2. I'm surprised a bunch haven't been snapped up to sell on the secondary market, ie thEbay.

Re:It's a great deal now. (4, Insightful)

BitZtream (692029) | about 9 months ago | (#44509959)

The reason sales have stalled is because not everyone is stupid.

You live in a fantasy.

I don't really understand why sales have stalled as this is going to be 2-3 years ahead of the market.

So they are going to magically come out with a phone 2 or 3 years ahead of the market ... when they aren't even currently in the market and have no experience doing what they claim they are going to do. And they claim they are going to do it far better than the people who produce the hardware itself?

Canonical is some how going to get Samsung (or whoever) to make magical new hardware that they themselves don't sell? Its not like Canonical can fab chips or make AMOLED displays or any of the other related bits.

Only a fool and his followers make and believe statements like these.

Re:It's a great deal now. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44514983)

No thats not foolish. It's nothing magic about it - just risk aversion Samsung is not bringing anything that it is not 99% sure will selll in millions.

And when you have that mindset you iterate, small steps. no big changes: a few RAMs here, a few pixels there. There is a lot of tech in the lab (Samsungs and others) that doesn't get put in the next model simply because it would be risky and there no clear mass-demand for it.

The Edge is pretty innovative, trying to take a couple of those techs to market (sapphire glass, the new battery tech) but the biggest innovation IMHO is that it is designed to be used as your one device: PC, phone, tablet, all in one.

Trust me Samsung will never bring that kind of device to market simply because it would eat into their other businesses - u make more money sellin a phone AND a tablet.

But thats in their interest probably not the consumer's.

Re:It's a great deal now. (1)

petermgreen (876956) | about 8 months ago | (#44526303)

The specs they have given are basically

"Fastest multi-core CPU, 4GB RAM, 128GB storage"

Nothing on what CPU they actually plan to use, this is a fairly low volume device so it won't be something specific for them and it will have to fit within the power envelope of a phone. So expect whatever CPU it ends up with to be at best comparable to the best other phones available at the time it launches.

The ram is nice but there are already phones shipping with 2GB, I doubt it will be all that long before we see phones with 4GB on the market anyway. Same can probablly be said for storage. Predicted screen resoloution is actually lower than one of the CURRENT phones they are comparing it to.

The software innovations may or may not be cool but I see no reason they can't be done on an existing hardware platform.

Overall it's a fair chunk of cash to pay in advance for something that is likely to be at best marginally better and quite possiblly worse than other phones available in early-mid 2014.

Wow, a whopping 80K! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44509911)

That is probably less than what they spend on their office fish tank maintenance in a month.

All I got was this lousy T-Shirt (1)

conner_bw (120497) | about 9 months ago | (#44510463)

If this thing takes off Apps could be written in C/C++ or JS instead of Cocoa or Java. Probably Python down the road?

Ideally, i'll be buying one (or something similar) when the service contract on my X220 runs out in 2015. Hopefully it's enough of a computer to replace my computer by then.ï

More commodity hardware for Linux hackers to hack on isn't a bad thing. For now I donated $50 for a T-Shirt. I'm into it.

Re:All I got was this lousy T-Shirt (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44510591)

isn't qt pretty much ported to android? other than that, you won't buy one in 2015 since this is a campaing only stupid thing. something where support dies right when you hold it in your hand and nobody develops apps for it because nobody actually got it... got it?

Re:All I got was this lousy T-Shirt (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44512999)

If this thing takes off Apps could be written in C/C++ or JS instead of Cocoa or Java. Probably Python down the road?

You seem to be pointing towards Android by mentioning Java. The thing is you can develop in C for Android devices, you merely need to get the NDK. Sure, portions of the UI stuff have better support for Java, but if you really want to you can write an entire Android application in C.

Finance firms should be interested in FOSS (2)

jago25_98 (566531) | about 9 months ago | (#44512669)

Bloomberg, as a financial and inparticular, media firm should be interested in privacy and security.
There isn't a phone out there that has integrity to trade... closest we got was Replicant on a Samsung but the modem had carte blanche to everything so it was imperfect.

So Bloomberg would be a good customer. Any Bloomberg employee who has sensitive info has the possibility of communicating privately.

But.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44512927)

Will it start to stop and frisk minorities now? Bloomberg is totally in love with the idea.

capcatcha: perverts - how appropriate.

Talk about wasting money (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#44513427)

If they had money to burn, they should have set it on fire. More efficient that way. Ubuntu == shitty spyware based on a shitty distro
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