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Paypal Rolls Out Photo Verification Trial In UK

samzenpus posted about 8 months ago | from the your-real-money-is-no-good-here dept.

Businesses 61

kdryer39 writes "Retailers in Richmond upon Thames are among the first to allow shoppers to leave their wallets at home and pay for items using just the PayPal app and their profile picture. The app for iOS, Windows OS and Android phones highlights nearby shops and restaurants that accept PayPal before the customer checks in by clicking on the required retailer and sliding an animated pin down on their screen. At present, only 12 merchants are using the system but it expects more than 2,000 locations will have the ability to use the app by the end of 2013."

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61 comments

wallet (4, Insightful)

Tom (822) | about 8 months ago | (#44518301)

At present, only 12 merchants are using the system

Which makes the "leave wallet at home" statement pure hyperbole.

Re:wallet (3, Funny)

Dupple (1016592) | about 8 months ago | (#44518303)

It'll be interesting how this works out. Normally when I'm in Richmond, I'm off my face and can't find my wallet

Re:wallet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518337)

Richmond Upon Thames is where Paypal and eBay's UK head office are.

Re:wallet (1)

MrNemesis (587188) | about 8 months ago | (#44518679)

Normally when I'm in Richmond, I'm off my face and can't find my wallet

Richmond Upon Thames is where Paypal and eBay's UK head office are.

Mod AC redundant, I think they're confused. Dupple is clearly the UK president of PayPal and eBay :)

Re:wallet (1)

Dogers (446369) | about 8 months ago | (#44524729)

VISA & co haven't even gotten the stupid contactless stuff everywhere yet - how on earth does PayPal expect to break in?

Re:wallet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44525031)

Presumably because the paypal stuff works with commodity hardware, while contactless payments needs special radio transmitters and so on. This is not to say I think either is a good idea. Cash please.

fuck paypal (5, Insightful)

ionix5891 (1228718) | about 8 months ago | (#44518305)

They close accounts without providing reasons nor being able to get in contact with a human

this is not "news for nerds" this is a "this marketing message has been brought to you by the Paypal PR department"

Re:fuck paypal (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518321)

PayPal is run by the Jews LOL

Re:fuck paypal (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518575)

Did JewPay with PayPal?

Re:fuck paypal (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518427)

You give a try at OKPay and help em grow and stand in front of Paypal,

Because I totally agree, Paypal does suck and they act like criminals with their sellers and buyers. From someone who used to create shoppingcart for merchant so they can support Paypal on their sites, I can tell you they can go to hell nowdays (Paypal that is). I'd prefer lose a small contract than put someone I know and stuck em with Paypal...

Hold money with no justifiable reason, create stupid chargeback for stupid users, and the fee are a real pain in the ass, untolerable and unresponsive (aka. you only get flowchart answers.) from customer support, etc etc etc.

Again, since we are talking about UK, why wouldn't you make an article on OKPay instead, which is way better than Paypal in my own opinion.

Re:fuck paypal (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518675)

Pseudo-banks such as okpay tends to close for various reasons, usually not giving back any money. Fethard, cg-pay, egold, liberty reserve, epassporte - just to name a few.

Re:fuck paypal (1)

cayenne8 (626475) | about 8 months ago | (#44522483)

I'm still pretty comfortable just using cash. Untraceable, easy, no ID required.

Online, sure I pay with CC or even PP at times, but for meatspace transactions, I try to do cash as much as possible.

If for nothing else, when I take out $200-$300 a week for pocket money, I have a better idea of how much I'm spending each week. It isn't abstract like CC's and online payments are....

Re:fuck paypal (4, Interesting)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 8 months ago | (#44518497)

It's interesting because they need your profile picture on file. PayPal are getting all wet at the thought of having every customer's face in their database, to help them harass unfortunate victims of fraud. It gives them a legitimate reason to store that information, which would otherwise be illegal in most European countries.

Re:fuck paypal (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518533)

PayPal requires a government issued photo ID for all but the most trivial uses. They already have photos from many customers - it's not only legal, it's required by anti-money laundering legislation.

I have no idea why anybody would mess with an abusive online behemoth who wants to extend offline, when they probably have a wide range of banks to chose from in a free market. Pay using my face ? That sounds gimmicky and insecure.

What we need to do is shatter the credit card industry oligopoly and PayPal is in no way a solution, they use the same Visa/Mastercard/Amex networks as everybody else. If there's a place for government regulation is this: define a standard for the payment network and force every entrant to inter-operate. It's fucking ridiculous to have 5+ POS devices [flickr.com] at every desk, each bank protecting it's little walled garden. The inefficiency is covered by our own pockets.

Re:fuck paypal (3, Informative)

augustw (785088) | about 8 months ago | (#44518953)

PayPal requires a government issued photo ID for all but the most trivial uses.

In the UK (where this trial is taking place) PayPal doesn't "require a government issued photo ID" for any purpose. It's not required by UK anti-money laundering legislation. And there is no "government issued photo ID" in the UK.. And no, we don't use our driving licences for this purpose. And no, we aren't required to carry our driving licences when we're driving.

Re:fuck paypal (1)

Inda (580031) | about 8 months ago | (#44519559)

I don't even have a photo on my UK driving licence.

Re:fuck paypal (1)

Zemran (3101) | about 8 months ago | (#44525719)

Ditto

I was once asked for my driving license at the check out in a Californian supermarket and the girl was really upset that it did not have a photo yet she did not want to see my passport which has a photo. She called the manager who looked at me (I am an old fart) and he just told her to get on with it. Weird country.

Re:fuck paypal (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44526601)

The funniest thing to me was that you (as a self proclaimed old fart) were asked for photo ID?!? Unless you were buying fire arms or something?

Re:fuck paypal (1)

manu0601 (2221348) | about 8 months ago | (#44527727)

It gives them a legitimate reason to store [the customer's face], which would otherwise be illegal in most European countries.

It does not have to be illegal. As I understand the spirit of privacy laws that exist in EU, if (1) there is a legitimate reason, (2) user is made ware, and (3) you do not retain it after you do not need it anymore (the customer ceased to use the service), then it should be fine.

Re:fuck paypal (1)

MrNemesis (587188) | about 8 months ago | (#44518555)

I was about to reply with a post about "...but here in the EU (unlike the US IIRC), PayPal *is* classified as a bank and therefore has to comply with much stricter legistlation than they appear to have to do in the US".

But in looking for a citation I found these:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?391236-Paypal-freezing-closing-accounts [consumerac...roup.co.uk]
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?235225-Paypal-claim-and-the-small-claims-court [consumerac...roup.co.uk] ...
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=2198081&page=1 [moneysavingexpert.com]

Glad to see my initial "PayPal are an utter shower of bastards" estimation all those years ago still seems to be true.

Re:fuck paypal (2)

Tom (822) | about 8 months ago | (#44518709)

They are, however, BBB accredited and have an excellent rating:
http://www.bbb.org/sanjose/business-reviews/payment-processing-service/paypal-in-san-jose-ca-210387 [bbb.org]

Compare that to, say, Steam's mother Valve:
https://www.bbb.org/western-washington/business-reviews/computer-software-publishers-and-developers/valve-corporation-in-bellevue-wa-27030704 [bbb.org]

which gets a straight F for pretty much the same reasons you claim for PayPal. I'm not a friend of PayPal and would move elsewhere if that were a serious option, but they have worked well for me for about 8 years now. Maybe because I understand that they're not a bank and never have more than a few hundred bucks in my account.

Re:fuck paypal (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518847)

I'm not a friend of PayPal and would move elsewhere if that were a serious option,

That alone is enough to make me hate PayPal. I hate being forced into an intermediary service (your BattleMaster is one of such recipients, I'd prefer to not use PayPal for payments). I understand that there are no serious alternatives, but that does not make me like PayPal.

but they have worked well for me for about 8 years now. Maybe because I understand that they're not a bank and never have more than a few hundred bucks in my account.

So... survival of the fittest? People who were ripped off -- it's their own fault?

Re:fuck paypal (1)

Tom (822) | about 8 months ago | (#44542085)

your BattleMaster is one of such recipients, I'd prefer to not use PayPal for payments

I offer direct bank transfers as an alternative, I just don't advertise it much because it is a ton more work for me and, quite frankly, people donating two or three Euros per bank transfer cost me more money in time and effort than I get.

I would love for the banking industry to set up a PayPal-like system where you can transfer money to my bank account world-wide at low fees and I can plug in a backend to process your transfer in whatever way I need to. I would use it immediately.

People who were ripped off -- it's their own fault?

Didn't say that. If you go into the dirty part of town with a bulging wallet, it is still the robber who is the criminal - and still most people will agree that your risk management strategy was not exactly perfect. That doesn't make the robbery your fault - but it does make the quantity of the damage partially your fault, because a more reasonable approach would have reduced the damage.

I feel for everyone who got their accounts locked, and I don't think it is ok. I alsol think it is stupid to leave tens of thousands of $ in a PayPal account.

Re:fuck paypal (1)

Presto Vivace (882157) | about 8 months ago | (#44521757)

As a professional flack, I have massive respect for the PayPal flack who got this on the front page of Slashdot, I would not even have tried. There is a reason for sites like PayPalSucks [paypalsucks.com] . Speaking only for myself, my personal experience with PayPal has been HORRIBLE. Currently, I use We Pay [wepay.com] and thus far have not had any issues. Speaking ONLY for myself.

Missing info (3, Informative)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about 8 months ago | (#44518317)

The information that actually goes with the headline, but was left out of TFS:

The customer's name and photo then appears on the shop's payment system and the retailer charges them by clicking on their image.

Re:Missing info (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518447)

So my twin brother can take all my money now?

Re:Missing info (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518681)

So my twin brother can take all my money now?

Yes, but if you have a bad allergic reaction, you won't be able to access your money at all.

Re:Missing info (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44519591)

Doesn't have to be your twin brother. Some friend of the cashier can, too, if sufficiently crooked.

Another NSA driven idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518325)

What next? Are people ready for chips implanted in arms yet?

i have an identical twin (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518385)

what about me?

Re:i have an identical twin (2)

Overzeetop (214511) | about 8 months ago | (#44518479)

Sounds like free lunch on you're twin's dime.

Re:i have an identical twin (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518493)

And if you had a twin, you could sign up for free grammar lessons.

Re:i have an identical twin (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518583)

"You are twin's dime"? Head asplode.

Maybe you can use your twins paypal account to buy some english lessons.

Re:i have an identical twin (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 8 months ago | (#44519141)

I'm surprised identity fraudsters don't create fake identical twins more often.

Extraneous middle man taking cut. (5, Insightful)

anne on E. mouse cow (867445) | about 8 months ago | (#44518439)

So paypal get their % cut and then the card company get their % cut. No thanks, this makes goods more expensive.

Re:Extraneous middle man taking cut. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518463)

As if paypal wasn't annoying enough already.

Re:Extraneous middle man taking cut. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518513)

It will be interesting to see if it takes off in Australia.

Already shops here are legally allowed to say "Mastercard/VISA? 2% extra please. Amex/Diners? 3.5% extra." EFTPOS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eftpos) is usually free.

I can already see "Paypal? Add 1%." (or whatever their cut is.)

Re:Extraneous middle man taking cut. (1)

dimeglio (456244) | about 8 months ago | (#44518591)

What are the alternatives for on-line commerce? Bank transfers don't seem too popular. Paying cash or by cheque is silly. Prepaid cards have fees. ?

Re:Extraneous middle man taking cut. (1)

MancunianMaskMan (701642) | about 8 months ago | (#44518617)

Among the alternatives you list, one stands out as merely "unpopular" rather than having sound reasons against it.

Re:Extraneous middle man taking cut. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518699)

It is easier to contest a fraudulent credit card/paypal payment than a bank transfer (in my country these can't be reversed).

Re:Extraneous middle man taking cut. (1)

PhillC (84728) | about 8 months ago | (#44518683)

Why is paying cash silly? Maybe in Korea only old people use cash, but I generally find it far more convenient than making card payments. I usually withdraw a couple of hundred Pounds from an ATM, then use that money to buy most things under £100 until the cash runs out, then withdraw some more. This, to me, seems like quite a sensible way to operate, not silly at all.

Re:Extraneous middle man taking cut. (1)

PhillC (84728) | about 8 months ago | (#44518691)

Oh fuck, if I'd read your post thoroughly, I'd see you were talking about on-line commerce only. My point was with regards to using cash in bricks and mortar transactions.

Re:Extraneous middle man taking cut. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44522027)

Bitcoin

why is paypal legal ? (2)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518485)

Other "banks" require government licenses and are heavily regulated. And I consider paypal a bank because it has control over the funds it keeps for its users, just like a bank.

Re:why is paypal legal ? (4, Insightful)

Hognoxious (631665) | about 8 months ago | (#44518501)

I agree. If it waddles like a bank and quacks like a bank then it's a bank.

Unless it's a building society. Assuming they still exist...

Re:why is paypal legal ? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518653)

Nationwide in the UK is a huge Building Society. Actually I think it is or was the worlds biggest.

There are like 40-50+ of them in the UK last I checked Wikipedia. Yeah 45 now. 2008 killed a few. Damn 2008.

Re:why is paypal legal ? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518561)

Paypal is goverment regulated and is indeed a considered a bank by European goverments.

Re:why is paypal legal ? (1)

jonbryce (703250) | about 8 months ago | (#44518827)

They are registered as an "electronic money issuer" in Luxembourg. A registration in one EU country is valid in all EU countries. It is not quite the same as a bank, the main difference is that there is no deposit insurance in the event that they go bust, however, unlike real banks, they are required to keep customers' money in a separate ring-fenced account.

Re:why is paypal legal ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518595)

PayPal is not a bank and is not your pal. There were several times I had my real bank "claw" money back from those fucken crooks. Fuck PayPal.

Re:why is paypal legal ? (3, Interesting)

CastrTroy (595695) | about 8 months ago | (#44518879)

Yeah, because it was PayPal, not the banks, that lead to a world-wide financial crisis. Although I understand what you're saying, I don't trust that government regulation will protect us from everything. Make sure you understand the agreements you are entering into with your banking institution. There are thousands of banks in the US. I highly doubt that all of them are that trustworthy or safe with your money.

Time to set my profile picture to a penis (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44518547)

:-)

Basis for projected growth? (1)

Mr. Freeman (933986) | about 8 months ago | (#44523941)

This can be summed up by saying: a company has a product being used by an absurdly small number of people but expects it to grow immensely in a very short period of time.

Well no kidding. Of course they expect it to grow rapidly, they're the ones selling it! Do they have any real evidence to suggest that this will actually happen? Of course not.

Probably being thick (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44524511)

Couldn't a crook just point the iPad camera at a print of the profile pic of the user?

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