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Egyptian Security Forces Storm Pro-Morsi Camps Leaving Nearly 100 Dead

Unknown Lamer posted about 8 months ago | from the about-that-revolution-thing dept.

News 381

After weeks of protesting the ousting of Morsi (forming encampments in Cairo during that time), the Egyptian security forces forcibly broke up the protesters' camps early this morning. Things quickly turned violent, leaving around one hundred people dead, including at least two journalists. The interim President has also declared an indefinite state of emergency, "allowing security forces to arrest and detain civilians indefinitely without charge." The AP reports that clashes are not isolated to Cairo: "Dozens of people have been killed across Egypt Wednesday in clashes between security forces and supporters of Morsi."

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381 comments

Not a Coup? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565145)

And it's still not a military coup for which reason?

Re:Not a Coup? (-1, Troll)

DarkOx (621550) | about 8 months ago | (#44565349)

Because our government is run by thugs, and ruled with corruption of a kind that would make middle eastern leaders blush.

Maybe overturning an election (4, Insightful)

Presto Vivace (882157) | about 8 months ago | (#44565461)

was not such a great idea. Even when the bad guy wins, it is better to respect the results of a democratic election.

Re:Maybe overturning an election (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 8 months ago | (#44565781)

We have done that zero times.
We have regularly disposed elected leaders both in the middle east and south america.

Re:Not a Coup? (1, Insightful)

allcoolnameswheretak (1102727) | about 8 months ago | (#44565463)

It's the same post WW2 U.S. foreign policy it has always been: dictatorships are preferable to boogeymen.

Before, boogeymen = commies. Now, boogeymen = islamists.

You always need the boogeymen. The military-industrial complex needs justification.

Re:Not a Coup? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565525)

Which media outlet claims it wasn't? Every media I have seen suggested a coup in the very beginning. A lesson for any nation: first formulate a fair and balanced constitution, then select a interim government to built the core facilities required to start satisfying the requirements of the constitution, after which you choose a president. Not the other way around.

Re:Not a Coup? (4, Informative)

jxander (2605655) | about 8 months ago | (#44565809)

The government. They're not saying it ISN'T a coup ... but there also not saying that is IS.

We have laws in this country that prevent us from sending financial aid to countries where a coup has occurred. So as long as the government doesn't actively admit what's going on, we can keep bribing people over there.

Re:Not a Coup? (2)

Guru80 (1579277) | about 8 months ago | (#44565601)

Because the world would have to be responsible for their inaction and cut off billions in funding, nobody wants that! Oh wait....everybody wants that, except politicians of course. To much money going around in lobbying and special interest groups and whatever else can put money into their pockets to take a stance that might hurt that.

Re:Not a Coup? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565745)

and Morsi's government was not a perversion of democracy to install another theocratic dictatorship?

they gotta learn from their own mistakes... (2, Insightful)

Thud457 (234763) | about 8 months ago | (#44565861)

oh yeah... we're all for "spreading Democracy", but then get our panties in a bunch when they democratically elect "DEATH TO THE GREAT SATAN".

This is a military coup against a legitimately elected government.
The fact that 'merkins are askeered of the Muslim Brotherhood is beside the point.

So Much for Democracy (2)

DexterIsADog (2954149) | about 8 months ago | (#44565149)

They tried it in Egypt, and the army said, "no, you're doing it wrong". Actually it was more like, "no, you might cut into our profits", so... no Democracy for you!

Re:So Much for Democracy (3, Insightful)

MightyYar (622222) | about 8 months ago | (#44565315)

I've heard both sides of this. One says Morsi was the democratically elected leader and ousting him destroys any chance at democracy. The other side says he was setting himself up as dictator. As usual, the truth is probably sloppier than either side would admit. I do know that the military is still enjoying a lot of popularity, so this is likely to continue. I wish the country well, and I hope they get it all sorted out.

Re:So Much for Democracy (5, Insightful)

DarkOx (621550) | about 8 months ago | (#44565575)

The problem is both are true. Morsi was the democratically elected leader, and he was setting if not himself up as a dictator permanent brotherhood rule.

Still unless someone can prove he violated Egypts new Constitution Morsi is the only legitimate leader of that nation. Its not know if Morsi's effort to marginalize opposition parties would have been effective enough to see him re-elected with a public wise to the danger/agenda he posed; it was however to duty of anyone who seriously wanted a democracy in Egypt to wait that long and find out.

This is sham; and long term I am confident it will prove harmful to reform. You can't have a democracy and a precedent for simply removing elected leaders when you are not satisfied with the outcome.

Re:So Much for Democracy (5, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 8 months ago | (#44565597)

I'm not sure what the Egyptian Army was to do. The protests against Morsi and the MB were massive, and I think it's well justified to call this a popular uprising.

Here in the West we're largely used to peaceful transfers of government and political parties, despite some ideological differences, tending to stick to the middle ground on most issues. While there are certainly protest movements, we haven't had them at the fever pitch that has been seen in the Arab Spring. For better or for worse we still, at least nominally, believe in the political process as the appropriate channel for change.

In countries like Egypt, where democracy has never really existed, and the democratic institutions that are there are more shams or for show than functional governmental and political entities, there is little or no civic notion of political process. A strong man falls, another takes his place. That seems to have been what Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood had decided, that somehow the uprising against Mubarak was simply another iteration of the same old process, and now Morsi could take his rightful place as King of the Mountain, inflict his movement's policies and his political allies on the populace by tossing out everyone from school principles to the head of a symphony orchestra with Muslim Brotherhood members.

So, for me, while I think it's troubling that the Army again asserted itself into the political process, the problem seems to be a distinct lack of political process. Clearly there are serious flaws in the constitution that was promulgated, and ultimately few checks on the powers of the Egyptian President and his cronies. This is something of a reset, but whether it will produce better results or not is difficult to say. One thing that has happened is that the Egyptian opposition groups and parties realize that their disunity is what delivered Morsi and the MB the last election, and that if they're serious about a change in the way the government works, they're going to have to stop the internecine warfare.

Re:So Much for Democracy (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565667)

basically its just a fight between the military powers that be and the religious powers that be, the guys in the streets waving flags and shouting slogans are just dressing.

Re:So Much for Democracy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565725)

basically its just a fight between the military powers that be and the religious powers that be, the guys in the streets waving flags and shouting slogans are just cannon fodder.

FTFY

Re:So Much for Democracy (5, Informative)

Immerman (2627577) | about 8 months ago | (#44565427)

I think it broke down a little before the army stepped in: (condensed from wikipedia entry on Morsi)
June 2012, election committee announces that Morsi has won the election
Nov. 2012 - Morsi temporarily grants himself unlimited power, including the power to legislate without judicial oversight or review
    - hundreds of thousands of Egyptians took to the streets in the 2012 Egyptian protests
Dec 2012 - Morsi annuls his decree of unlimited power, but states that all the effects of his time as de-facto emperor will remain
June 30, 2013 - mass protests erupt calling for the presidents resignation after severe fuel shortages and electricity outages
    - the army threatens to step in and build a roadmap for the country if protestors demands aren't met by July 3, while insisting they did not want to rule the country or intend for a military coup.
Morsi was declared unseated on 3 July 2013 by a council consisting of defence minister Abdul Fatah al-Sisi, opposition leader Mohamed ElBaradei, the Grand Imam of Al Azhar Ahmed el-Tayeb, and Coptic Pope Tawadros II

Can't say I've paid enough attention to Egypt since then to be able to say anything about how democracy is likely to fair going forward, but it certainly wasn't doing too well before the army stepped in.

Re:So Much for Democracy (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565429)

If revolutions of the past are any indications, often one change in leadership does not cut it. Just look at how many changes the french revolution went through. From dictator to other dictator to ones that really don't know what they do to even more dictators. Its also not because a guy is chosen, often during a very hectic period and often a guy that is rather radical that its a good leader or even one that actually supports the system that got him in place. Getting a true democracy that does not trample the rights of a minority is a difficult process.

Re:So Much for Democracy (4, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 8 months ago | (#44565445)

The election was flawed inthe first place and rushed.

The way it was setup insured there were only 2 choices. Center and left was fractured while the right was united through a single radical muslim. So the rule of 2 applied where you had a former Mabarik henchman corrupt or a radical muslim and no further candidates? If you were Egyptian who would you vote for?

A dictator under corrupt American imperialist or freedom from a religious group who is fanatical, yet was not part of the old boss club?

American anology would be Pat Robertson who promises a Christian theocracy or King George III who promises a return to the old? Wouldnt must of you protest too?

These are what the post Morsi protests to ask the army to remove him were about? Majority of Egyptians oppose Morsi like the majority of Americans and Floridians voted for Al Gore, yet Harris threw out enough ballots to tip it to Bush combined with Electoral College caused the anti Bush bias you see and divided country. Egypt is the same. Divided with one group thinks its legit and the other feels robbed.

Libya is fine and done right

Re:So Much for Democracy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565573)

How is Libya doing it right? They've just made themselves an Islamic theocracy, like Morsi's party wants, and not even had elections so far. And if they did, the Islamic parties would win. They're not interested in secular alternatives, and nor do they tolerate them. It's not the lack of options in Libya - it's that a majority of that population is happy to be the Saudi Arabia of Africa.

Re:So Much for Democracy (2)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 8 months ago | (#44565851)

Sounds like you have been watching too much Fox News?

Libya is the most moderate and pro western friendly government int the middle east! The muslim brotherhood there got around 10% of the votes. The people had no desire for this and had choices.

Re:So Much for Democracy (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565655)

The election was flawed inthe first place and rushed.

The way it was setup insured there were only 2 choices. Center and left was fractured while the right was united through a single radical muslim. So the rule of 2 applied where you had a former Mabarik henchman corrupt or a radical muslim and no further candidates? If you were Egyptian who would you vote for?

A dictator under corrupt American imperialist or freedom from a religious group who is fanatical, yet was not part of the old boss club?

American anology would be Pat Robertson who promises a Christian theocracy or King George III who promises a return to the old? Wouldnt must of you protest too?

These are what the post Morsi protests to ask the army to remove him were about? Majority of Egyptians oppose Morsi like the majority of Americans and Floridians voted for Al Gore, yet Harris threw out enough ballots to tip it to Bush combined with Electoral College caused the anti Bush bias you see and divided country. Egypt is the same. Divided with one group thinks its legit and the other feels robbed.

Libya is fine and done right

Sour fucking grapes.

Grow up. Every review after the fact showed Bush won Florida.

And heaven forbid Gore's efforts to lawyer his way to the Presidency when he was behind in the vote count were classless and divisive. Oh, that can't be it at all. Here's a hint: when you're given a lesson how to handle yourself with class in a close election you lost under questionable circumstances by the behavior of RICHARD FUCKING NIXON, you're a divisive classless hack.

Whose army? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565493)

I recall that other countries told the Egyptians "you're doing it wrong".

Like they did with Cuba or Venezuela. Hell, it goes all the way back to Mossadiq.

We only want honest elections when the "right" person gets in.

Re:So Much for Democracy (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565641)

The situation isn't nearly as simple as you imply. Morsi won the election then suspended parliament and set out on a year-long agenda to usurp power and push though the Muslim Brotherhood's view of Egypt's future, which is far more religious than most Egyptians want. I know that we in the west expect our elected politicians to break most of their campaign promises and then do what they had secretly planned to do all along as soon as they are in office, but the Egyptions weren't having it right after a revolution.

The army does what it does for many reasons, in parallel. I doubt that they are purely altruistic, but I believe they were sincere in enforcing the will of the people. They only removed Morsi after millions of people had protested against the president for weeks, with more and more people coming out every day. A true democracy should have some way to kick someone out of office if he or she completely disregards their mandate. This obviously isn't it, but it's what many of the people wanted, and Morsi wasn't about to hold a referendum to see.

Of course, the current situation is not good. Morsi supporters were glad that he was a champion of the Muslim Brotherhood. Egypt was already a silently divided nation before this came into the open. The conservative religious factions would like to gradually move Egypt towards Sharia law and Islamic theocracy. Others, especially among the youth, would like Egypt to embrace more aspects of Western culture.

Egypt is one of the more modern Islamic nations. The country is relatively open to the West and there is a great deal of tourism in the country that exposes them to Western culture. They are also very active online with relatively little censorship. I believe that the majority of Egyptians want to see the nation continue in this direction. This is good for the rest of the Western world as well. Egypt's culture has considerable influence on the rest of the Arabic world due to their prominent media industries. It is one of the reasons that people who wish to study Arabic are told to learn Egyptian Arabic. It is the most widely understood modern Arabic dialect. As such, if Egypt breaks away from the influence of religious fundamentalism then it's a win for everyone except the fundies.

So, what can they do at this point? If most people were upset with Morsi for abandoning his mandate and acting as an agent of the Muslim Brotherhood, then he should clearly not be in power. How then do you appease those who want him re-instated? They have been protesting and creating problems for over 5 or 6 weeks now, in the middle of the capital. There is no perfect solution. Unfortunately, the army has turned to force and this will mar everything else that they have done, but I still believe that supporting the will of the people was one of their main reasons for entering the fray, and there are not many options on the table when you are dealing with violent mobs with armed members.

At this point only time will tell where Egypt goes next, but with Morsi at the helm they were not on their way to true democracy. Ultimately, when you have such large opposing factions, true democracy may be impossible.

Enough with "Democracy" Already (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565653)

The USA is NOT a democracy and I'm glad. It's a cliche but we shouldn't forget that democracy is 3 wolves and a sheep deciding on dinner. Egypt got here democracy and the Islamists wolves were preparing to dine on everybody else.

Yet the US media downplay the body count (-1, Troll)

msobkow (48369) | about 8 months ago | (#44565171)

Around the world, reports range from 80 to 120 dead.

Except in the US media, which claims only 15-20 dead.

Gotta protect the reputation of those "allies" to justify not calling the Egyptian situation what it is: a military coup.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (1)

afidel (530433) | about 8 months ago | (#44565263)

A military coup that's going to lead to civil war most likely.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (5, Informative)

phantomfive (622387) | about 8 months ago | (#44565269)

Wall Street Journal:Nearly 100 dead [wsj.com].
USA Today: Nearly 100 dead [usatoday.com]
CNN: 95-200 dead [cnn.com]
NBC: At least 95 dead [nbcnews.com]
Fox News: Nearly 100 dead [foxnews.com]

But don't let reality get in the way of your bizarre conspiracy theory.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (1)

msobkow (48369) | about 8 months ago | (#44565359)

Only a few hours ago NBC was reporting only 15-20. The same with Fox. And NBC and ABC.

At least they seem to be correcting their stories.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (3, Insightful)

Applekid (993327) | about 8 months ago | (#44565571)

Only a few hours ago NBC was reporting only 15-20. The same with Fox. And NBC and ABC.

At least they seem to be correcting their stories.

The problem with the "always on" news cycle is that fact-checking isn't part of it. They all want to be first to report, so if it's wrong, who cares, we'll patch it later.

It's this kind of speculative journalism that gives conspiracy theorists fuel for the shadowy figures in smokey rooms trope.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565751)

Despite how people keep bitching about how Slashdot's comment system doesn't allow for edits, deletions, or other forms of take-backs in the normal flow of conversations here, I've always felt that it encourages people to stop, think, review the facts, and make sure what they're saying is reasonably accurate before they irreversibly make asses out of themselves. For instance, spouting off Yet Another Anti-American Conspiracy Theory(tm) about a breaking news story whose reporting can be corrected if mistakes are made. You'd think you could stop and check if anything's changed in the reports since "a few hours ago" BEFORE you post, given a story like this CAN change quite rapidly as facts come in.

But, clearly I'm wrong. Clearly, Slashdot's stand-by-your-words policy of commenting doesn't stand a chance against people eagerly rushing in to make fools of themselves and sacrifice any reputation they might have just for the outside possibility of furthering their own nebulous agenda. Oh, well. At least they tried.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (1)

girlintraining (1395911) | about 8 months ago | (#44565437)

But don't let reality get in the way of your bizarre conspiracy theory.

From TFA: "Egyptâ(TM)s Health Ministry said 60 people died and 874 injured..."

A cursory glance at the timestamp on these stories provides a big clue as to what happened here, and the clue suggests "bizarre conspiracy theory" shouldn't be the conclusion drawn. The OP should be chastized for not RTFA, which is the most likely explanation, not chastized for wearing a tin foil hat, which is unlikely, though a popular personal attack these days.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 8 months ago | (#44565515)

You are right, that is probably what happened, but the tin foil hat comes from this sentence: " Gotta protect the reputation of those "allies" to justify not calling the Egyptian situation what it is: a military coup." When you jump to a conclusion completely unsupported by the facts, that is a conspiracy theory.

(for example, you can't prove that aliens didn't kill JFK, but it's still a leap to conclude they did. Similarly, you can't prove the American media is somehow trying to cover for the president by lying about casualty numbers, but it's still a leap to conclude they did. There are many more likely explanations).

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (2)

aliquis (678370) | about 8 months ago | (#44565281)

Democracy! It's good when you aren't voting on the muslims!

Though then again fuck all gods and their believers.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (2)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 8 months ago | (#44565303)

Washington Post is reporting 42 dead confirmed at an aid station for Morsi supporters, 60 dead estimated by the Egyptian government, and over 2000 esimated by the Muslim Brotherhood. Where are you seeing 15-20?

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (0)

PhxBlue (562201) | about 8 months ago | (#44565633)

Washington Post is reporting 42 dead confirmed at an aid station for Morsi supporters, 60 dead estimated by the Egyptian government, and over 2000 esimated by the Muslim Brotherhood.

Sounds like the Muslim Brotherhood has outsourced its statistical analysis to the American Tea Party.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (0)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 8 months ago | (#44565859)

Why not they support the same stuff.

I find it hilarious that the very people most worried about Sharia law coming to America actually want to impose it themselves.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (4, Insightful)

simonbp (412489) | about 8 months ago | (#44565325)

NPR was reporting "at least a hundred dead" several hours ago. I think it's not the US media that is biased so much as you.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (2)

binarylarry (1338699) | about 8 months ago | (#44565331)

True, although the military stepped in because the elected officials were attempting to appoint themselves dictators for life.

If the US president declared himself Emperor of the United States, how much do you want to bet he'd quickly be placed in a military jail cell?

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 8 months ago | (#44565485)

We have a process of impeachment. A person can't go around declaring himself 'emperor' without a lot of assistance. Besides, the US has its own Taliban keeping the prisons full. Business is good.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565739)

A person can't go around declaring himself 'emperor' without a lot of assistance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton

Granted, California is bizarro land, but not only can a person declare themselves Emperor, it seems to work out better than you'd think.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565671)

Given the reactions to other blatant violations of the constitution; there would probably be a few arrests of some small armed resistance groups and the president would continue on using that as an excuse to declare martial law.

The elections would be halted and the supreme court would rule you don't have grounds to file a lawsuit because you weren't the elected president.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (0, Troll)

girlintraining (1395911) | about 8 months ago | (#44565377)

Gotta protect the reputation of those "allies" to justify not calling the Egyptian situation what it is: a military coup.

Ah, I don't think it's the reputation of our "allies" we're worried about. I think it's our own ass, since we have a long history of supplying military weapons and no-strings-attached money by the pallet to Egypt. Hell, we used to supply weapons to Iran... though apparently people's memories are shorter than ever since the advent of the internet and people forgot about Reagan. Much of the militarization and violence in the middle east is directly due to us giving them those weapons. America follows the 34th Rule of Acquisition like any good Ferrengi would. Though right now the 98th and 125th could really use some attention...

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (1)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 8 months ago | (#44565467)

Hell, we used to supply weapons to Iran... though apparently people's memories are shorter than ever since the advent of the internet and people forgot about Reagan.

It was pretty well publicized several years ago that they were moving up the retirement of the F-14 and the manufacture of replacement parts due partly to the fact that Iran was the last nation besides us flying them, and they were getting spare parts to keep them in the air.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (0, Offtopic)

girlintraining (1395911) | about 8 months ago | (#44565511)

Ah yes, the slashdot mods are hating on the truth again.

"These Moderator Points Paid For By The Department of American Propaganda."

Sadly, the facts [cnn.com] are not in favor of the moderators today. $1.2 billion a year has bought the egyptian military a lot of democracy! And finding out what Reagan did is just an google [wikipedia.org] away. But hey mods... don't let your blind patriotism get in the way of a righteous down-modding. Afterall, being critical of your own government supporting re-directing billions to kill peaceful protesters is a very democratic thing to do... unlike, say, providing food stamps, which presently has a smaller budget than the money we're giving to Egypt right now to kill its own citizens.

-1, Truthful.

It was a coup against a coup (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565385)

Morsi executed his own coup when he granted himself dictatorial powers [telegraph.co.uk]. That, combined with the fact he was a corrupt and colossal failure who engendered a popular uprising against him, justified the army removing him from power.

Morsi's "democracy" was of the same sort that blessed vast swathes of post-colonial Africa in the 1960s and 70s: One man, one vote, once, followed by brutal dictatorship. Now at least Egypt has a slim chance of having something resembling a real democracy. Under Morsi and his Muslim Brotherhood cronies, there was none.

Re:It was a coup against a coup (2)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 8 months ago | (#44565549)

Now at least Egypt has a slim chance of having something resembling a real democracy. Under Morsi and his Muslim Brotherhood cronies, there was none.

That is predicated on the Egyptian military actually giving up their power after the coup to restore democracy, which they have so far been unwilling to do. Part of the problem is that the Egyptian military can look at Turkey, where the military has a very strong presence in the government. There have really been no indications that the military plans to give up power at this point.

Re:It was a coup against a coup (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565665)

The thing about democracy in Egypt - or indeed any other Muslim country - is that the people don't believe in pluralism - be it religious, political or whatever. As a result, democracy is just one more game of one-upsmanship designed to get one's particular group into power.

Take Iraq. Anyone think the Shias there were or are about democracy? The only reason they supported it is that they are 60% of the population. But other than that, they've been pretty happy to persecute Chaldean and Assyrian Christians, who've fled to Syria, and are now fleeing to Lebanon. They would have been perfectly happy to have had their own Assad, had they been a minority, like their Alawite brothers in Syria.

Egypt won't be a democracy - not in the real sense of the word. Copts will continue to be second class citizens, regardless of who's in power, while Judeophobic sentiments will continue to rule the roost in Cairo. It didn't exist under Mubarak, it didn't exist under Morsi, and it won't under anyone else, because they're just not the 'live and let live' type.

Re:Yet the US media downplay the body count (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about 8 months ago | (#44565499)

That's just wrong.

I did a Google news listing and the first item is USA Today reporting 'more than 100 dead'.

In the same group of stories NBC News and the Boston Herald are reporting 149 dead.

How is this news for nerds? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565173)

How is this appropriate for Slashdot? Don't we get enough of this stuff through "normal" news channels?

Re:How is this news for nerds? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565693)

It's stuff that matters. And we don't get a whole commenting-moderating-metamoderating threaded forum system through the "normal" news channels. The commenting-moderating-metamoderating threaded forum system is really the only thing that keeps me here instead of on other "social media."

Who modded this crap up? Maybe it's time I spend an hour or two metamoderating. Come to think of it, I haven't done that in a while. For the record, in true Slashdot tradition, I haven't RTFA'd since I'll hear about TFA through the "normal" news channels later tonight.

- Vel

Play the Kevin Bacon game (-1, Troll)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 8 months ago | (#44565197)

To find how closely the US/UK/Israel are jointly involved.

Re:Play the Kevin Bacon game (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565517)

Troll

Whoops!! I forgot.. The truth is not allowed here... So sorry... Didn't mean to offend the little generals.

Re:Play the Kevin Bacon game (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565545)

Ooh! I'll play!

Israel has a peace agreement with Egypt, and is its neighbor. Egypt is Egypt. so, 1?

Re:Play the Kevin Bacon game (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 8 months ago | (#44565643)

Ironically, because Obama has refused to take sides and declare support for either group, both sides seem to believe he is supporting the other side.

US/UK/Israel want stability in the region. If they were in control, it would not be unstable right now.

Re:Play the Kevin Bacon game (0)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 8 months ago | (#44565803)

US/UK/Israel want stability in the region.

Complete rubbish... destabilization is the intent. In their eyes, few things are more dangerous than a stable, powerful, independent Arab state. Take a look at any before and after invasion pictures of those countries before spouting such nonsense.

Honesty (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565209)

The interim President has also declared an indefinite state of emergency,...

Why don't they just come out and say, "I'm dictator now. Suck it."

Yeah I know, there are plenty of twits who actually think it's tempory.

Democracy is a difficult choice (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565211)

Egypt is learning in a very painful way that democracy has unintended results for the people (military and big business) traditionally used to getting everything they want. This is why Turkey is cutting its military leadership off at the knees and everyone else is getting military-sponsored governments.

Turkey is cutting off its military leadership... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565415)

...in order to impose an oppressive one-party Islamic state free of Turkey's traditional checks and balances. Not an improvement.

Should have left Morsi in power (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565221)

They should have left Morsi in power to implement Sharia law as his party wanted to.

Egypt has nothing to over the world apart from tourism and once foreigners stop going there over fears of the extreme conservatism or being subjugated, their economy would have collapsed and the problem would solve itself.

Re:Should have left Morsi in power (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565355)

nothing at all! oh, apart from the Suez Canal...

Yay democracy. (-1)

girlintraining (1395911) | about 8 months ago | (#44565225)

This is democracy in action. No, really. You think jackbooted thugs roaming the streets freely without resistance is democracy? Democracy is bloody. It's violent. This is how it's supposed to be when the government decides to arm itself and consider its own people the enemy, potential subversives, terrorists, etc. The will of the people is never so clearly shown when they're being crushed underneath tanks and there's bodies in the streets and floating down the rivers.

Of course... they're losing. Apparently all those weapons and support we've been shipping overseas has found a use: Bringing democracy to other countries. (-_-) Now I'm not suggesting we get involved (US State Department; I'm looking at you and your comical avoidance of the word 'coup')... just that if you zoom in on those protesters you're going to see a lot of signs on both sides angry at America... and there may be good reason for that, and you know, maybe we should take responsibility for the role we've played in this.

Ah, who am I kidding -- keep the funding coming guys! This is great TV!

Tyranny of the majority (5, Insightful)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 8 months ago | (#44565237)

The non-Muslims are divided into many smaller groups so can't form a cohesive opposition to the Muslim majority. The Muslims are well organized and it's easy for their imams to tell everyone to vote for the same guy.

What do you do when the majority want to take away your freedoms?

Re:Tyranny of the majority (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565289)

You're kidding, right? The people getting attacked are the pro-Islamists (e.g., Morsi supports; take not of which party Morsi belonged to).

Re:Tyranny of the majority (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565369)

I think the standard response here is "If you don't like it, move."

Re:Tyranny of the majority (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565443)

Support a pro US Military dictatorship?

Re:Tyranny of the majority (2)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 8 months ago | (#44565537)

You do know the majority of Egyptians oppose Morsi? The elections were setup in a way where a former Marbarak henchman vs a Morsi were your only 2 votes. They voted agaisnt marbarek more than voted for Morsi. Then Morsi gave himself god like powers and dissolved parliment.

Re:Tyranny of the majority (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565543)

Right, in some alternate reality where the Christian majority were being persecuted by a unified Muslim minority, your post would make total sense.

Re:Tyranny of the majority (1)

ameen.ross (2498000) | about 8 months ago | (#44565731)

What do you do when the majority want to take away your freedoms?

Storm peaceful protesters, killing dozens, if not hundreds. Right?

This is TRAGIC but.. (4, Insightful)

dryriver (1010635) | about 8 months ago | (#44565287)

The country as a whole would have been far worse off with the Muslim Brotherhood in charge - for, say, a whole decade. If Egypt is to stay secular, and remain/become a modern country, it is imperative that the country doesn't fall into the hands of the theo-conservatives. So while the deathtoll is tragic, the country would - in the long run - be infinitely, infinitely worse off if governed by the Muslim Brotherhood... I hope that things settle down in Egypt, and that the country's shortlived democracy experiment resumes, and works out better this time. My 2 cents.

Re:This is TRAGIC but.. (0, Troll)

ikhider (2837593) | about 8 months ago | (#44565381)

They got voted in, so you have to deal with it. Your ilk voted for Bush for TWO terms. Pot calling the kettle black. 'nuff said.

Re:This is TRAGIC but.. (2)

Issarlk (1429361) | about 8 months ago | (#44565581)

They got voted in and promptly tried getting unlimited power. To make democracy stronger, no doubt.

Re:This is TRAGIC but.. (1)

GLMDesigns (2044134) | about 8 months ago | (#44565755)

The analogy would be if Bush literally suspended the constitution and unilaterally tried to install a new one without going through constitutional procedures.

Re:This is TRAGIC but.. (4, Insightful)

mjr167 (2477430) | about 8 months ago | (#44565783)

As much you dislike Bush, comparing him to Islamic fundamentalists is a bit far fetched. The reality is that the vast majority of American's are actually very well off (compared to the masses of Egypt and other countries in that region) and Bush did very little to change that. Even when the economy 'collapsed' we didn't have even close to the kinds of problems Egypt is having right now.

Eventually people are going to have to realize that Bush/Obama was not the great Satan; he did not doom us as a nation; other presidents before him have committed equally heinous acts, and life doesn't actually suck that badly in the US. People setting stuff on fire and getting shot for political/theological disputes is the exception rather than the norm here.

Yes, there is room for improvement, but there will always be room for improvement. We will never have utopia for the simple reason that my version of utopia is different from yours so we will end up with some sludge of a compromise in which no one is happy.

Re:This is TRAGIC but.. (1)

ashvagan (885082) | about 8 months ago | (#44565397)

and you saw that in your magic 8 ball? what does your 8 ball say about Red Sox winning this season? Some people are just amazing when it comes to assumptions about the future.

Re:This is TRAGIC but.. (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 8 months ago | (#44565399)

Do you seriously suspect that this crackdown will work? Mubarak spent the better part of his time in office flexing his (ample) willingness to exercise 'emergency powers' and a bit of the old extralegal detention and torture trying to get rid of them, and look how successful that wasn't.

Once in power, the Brotherhood turned out to be as incompetent as they were autocratic, so their charm wore off a bit; but several decades of steady state violence didn't keep them from being the best prepared outfit when the original voting happened.

Re:This is TRAGIC but.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565405)

Sure, but lets not kid ourselves that this is a democracy if we throw out the winners because we don't like them. You can vote as long as its for the correct party.

And Israel is dancing in the steets (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565299)

Because they don't like Pharaoh. Never did. Never have. Never will. And I thank you for your support.

the morsi supporters are supporters of the muslim (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565307)

Just in case the rest of you have NOT heard:

The Egyptian Army is fighting against the establishment of a Muslim Theocratic state headed by Morsi, the Muslim Brotherhood is attempting to establish Sharia in violation of the human rights of all Egyptians.

  Time for some truth around here..

It's an OK start...... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565309)

It's an OK start, but if they are going to stabilize the situation they are going to have to wipe all of the Islamist, Muslim Brotherhood. They need to step it up.

And oh, btw, thank our lucky stars that the Military is taking one from Turkey and not let these RETRO humans take over, they are mindless ANIMALS! Given an opportunity they will bring the whole region in full scale war.

Re:It's an OK start...... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565487)

Yes, because it worked so good for the Romans getting rid of the Christians.

When will the US people oust their gov? (1)

future assassin (639396) | about 8 months ago | (#44565417)

Only 1 person revealed what the NSA was doing out of 100's knowing about it yet people say the military and police wouldn't go against the US public is they were ordered to.

News for nerds? (3, Insightful)

Okian Warrior (537106) | about 8 months ago | (#44565419)

Usually news stories on this site have at least a faint aroma of tech relevance.

Certain select stories are of such a high importance that everyone wants to talk about them and they appear on this site despite having no relevance to the major purpose.

That's fine, really it is. But I have to ask, where is the dividing line? Will we be seeing articles on Syria? More than 100 people are killed there on a regular basis. Fourty-four were killed in a mosque in Nigeria the other day. Is that significant? A white-ish guy shot an innocent black kid who was definitely not bashing the white-guy's head into the pavement - is that relevant?

I found this very interesting Third Amendment lawsuit [foxnews.com] (yes, Third amendment) and didn't submit because it was offtopic.

I'm not saying that world events are not important, and this one is pretty high on the importance scale. It's just that I avoid regular news sites and frequent this one because it saves time. Yes, I can skip articles - but note that I can skip articles in Google News and Reddit as well.

I can't find the link, but I remember a chart of "Slashdot readership" that showed a general decline over the last several years.

This leade to a simple question: Is Slashdot better for reporting generic news items, or should it be more about "News for Nerds"?

Re:News for nerds? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565623)

It's a judgement call by the editors. I have no problem with that.

I remember Slashdot got over 1000 posts for the Zimmerman (T. Martin) verdict, only a handful of which were of the "How is this News for Nerds?" variety. It would be a stretch to say that Zimmerman/Martin had much to do with IT or science, although you could always dredge up something (analysis of the video and audio, ballistics evidence, etc).

Oh, OK. 'bye then. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565747)

You can always make your own site with news for nerds, and hookers, and drink.

Re:News for nerds? (2)

Nemyst (1383049) | about 8 months ago | (#44565749)

Slashdot most certainly shouldn't be so isolationist as to avoid talking about anything non-tech. I think it can be interesting to have discussions about non-tech news with the very tech/science focused community here, which is very different from most other news sites.

A lesson in sentence construction (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565483)

As worded, the lead sentence says that the Egyptian security forces are the ones who have been protesting Morsi's ouster for weeks and forming encampments.

Please, especially when the meaning of the sentence is important and serious, learn to construct the sentence properly.

News from where? (1, Funny)

judoguy (534886) | about 8 months ago | (#44565539)

"allowing security forces to arrest and detain civilians indefinitely without charge."

Uh, is the article about Egypt or America? It's hard for me to keep track sometimes.

They got voted in, so deal with it (1)

ikhider (2837593) | about 8 months ago | (#44565553)

The Muslim Brotherhood got voted in, so they must be deal with. If the people are unhappy with them, vote them out. If Americans don't like the elected representatives, too bad. The world had to deal with Bush TWO TERMS. Egypt was under dictators for a long time and they are not used to voting their dissatisfaction. "Oh, the Muslim Brotherhood is not secular enough to my tastes!", if you are Egyptian, vote for whoever next round. If you are outside of Egypt, too bad.

Re:They got voted in, so deal with it (1)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 8 months ago | (#44565817)

The Muslim Brotherhood got voted in, so they must be deal with. If the people are unhappy with them, vote them out. If Americans don't like the elected representatives, too bad. The world had to deal with Bush TWO TERMS. Egypt was under dictators for a long time and they are not used to voting their dissatisfaction. "Oh, the Muslim Brotherhood is not secular enough to my tastes!", if you are Egyptian, vote for whoever next round. If you are outside of Egypt, too bad.

So what happens when the elected leader(Morsi) declares he has legislative powers and can enact any law that he wants and starts firing anyone from the government that won't follow his lead? Vote him out in the next election? Oops, too bad, he just declared no more elections. Then Egypt is stuck with another Mubarak that is also a radical Muslim. Voting someone in means that the population is extending to that person their consent to be governed by him. That consent can be removed at any time, the citizens do not have to wait for the next round of elections. And that is what has happened in Egypt. The people saw they were sold a false bill of goods, that the government they got was not the one they voted for. So they revoked their consent.

While certainly newsworthy (2)

axl917 (1542205) | about 8 months ago | (#44565729)

what does this have to do with Slashdot, really? We're not really a general news site.

IT IS AFRICA !! MURDEROUS CAMP RAIDS COMMON !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44565825)

Nothing new to see here !! Move along !!

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