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629 comments

Boo (4, Insightful)

symbolset (646467) | about 8 months ago | (#44580419)

Hoo

Only relevant line (5, Informative)

ShieldW0lf (601553) | about 8 months ago | (#44580521)

"Google claims that one problem with our new app is that it doesn’t always serve ads based on conditions imposed by content creators."

Nothing more needed to be said. The rest of the article is manipulation.

Re:Only relevant line (1, Insightful)

symbolset (646467) | about 8 months ago | (#44580555)

Wait. You forgot to say "Microsoft says". Surely that is relevant.

Re:Only relevant line (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580735)

Even funnier, Microsoft says

"There was one sticking point in the collaboration. Google asked us to transition our app to a new coding language – HTML5... At the end of the day, experts from both companies recognized that building a YouTube app based on HTML5 would be technically difficult and time consuming,"

So one of the largest software companies in the world can't code an app to display content from a web page in HTML5?

Maybe they should hire some people who've moved past VBA or consider getting out of the business?

Re:Only relevant line (5, Insightful)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | about 8 months ago | (#44580845)

Wait. You forgot to say "Microsoft says". Surely that is relevant.

not to mention smarmy bits like

inconsistent with Google’s own commitment of openness

Which basically means

we would never let you be compatible for free; look at how we block free implementations of ActiveSync; however we demand that Google let us into their market so we can fuck them because they aren't nearly as nasty as we are

Microsoft are a bunch of hypocrites as ever. Google should not be opening up anything for them until Microsoft fully opens all of their server protocols; clearly shows remorse for the things they have done in the past (including clearly identifying who was responsible and ensuring that they are handed over to the justice system) and fully and clearly compensates all of the companies and people (Sendo; Netscape; Borland; Novell; IBM etc.) they have damaged in the past through abuse of their monopoly situation.

If some guy has come by and been caught robbing you several times, that does not make it discrimination if you don't invite him when you invite all your other neighbours over.

Re:Only relevant line (2)

symbolset (646467) | about 8 months ago | (#44580897)

Agreed. Microsoft's CEO: "I'm going to fucking kill Google. I've done it before and I can do it again." Not much ambiguity there. Backed up by more than $16B in spend so far.

Re:Only relevant line (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580905)

Shut the fuck up. I'm no M$ fan but this is a dick move by google (and you should know it, if eric's dick wasn't so far up your ass). Honestly Google saying they wont make a youtube app because there arn't enough customers using it (even though google knows that lack of common apps is part of the reason for low users) and then wont even let MS make their own version. If you can see past that giant tree you've been looking at and cursing at for the last 10-20 years, you'll see there is a whole forest of nastyness out there, and the biggest advertising giant in the world is NO saint.

Re:Only relevant line (4, Insightful)

tlhIngan (30335) | about 8 months ago | (#44580613)

"Google claims that one problem with our new app is that it doesnâ(TM)t always serve ads based on conditions imposed by content creators."

Nothing more needed to be said. The rest of the article is manipulation.

And Microsoft claims the API doesn't let them do that, which is possible. Perhaps Google doesn't expose the necessary APIs. Or perhaps to get the ad, you call "GetAd" with the video ID, and expect Google to Do The Right Thing(tm) and return an appropriate ad (which makes sense - do you expect the client to retrieve the ad, do some analysis and if it doesn't work, get another ad? Geez, look at the bandwidth waste!). Of course, perhaps Microsoft isn't dumb and they looked at how Google wrote their YouTube apps on iOS and Android, and saw they were calling some unknown API to fix it.

Of course, "Google Can Do No Evil" attitude is quite prevalent, and I suppose like Apple fanboys, they refuse to see any bad things their company does. It's easy to hate Microsoft. It's easy to hate Apple. But hate Google and the fanboys can be just as vicious as Apple ones.

Re:Only relevant line (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580699)

Microsoft does not want to show google ads, because google gets the money. Microsoft wants to show their own ads, so they change the program to disregard google ads and show their own instead. In this thing, that's probably what's happening (even if they only disregard google ads). And as much as i dislike ads, MS is not in the right here. If google can show the ads, so can MS.

Re:Only relevant line (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580719)

I mean, if google can show the ads from the stream in their program, so can MS show those same exact ads.

Re:Only relevant line (4, Insightful)

ShieldW0lf (601553) | about 8 months ago | (#44580701)

"Google claims that one problem with our new app is that it doesnâ(TM)t always serve ads based on conditions imposed by content creators."

Nothing more needed to be said. The rest of the article is manipulation.

And Microsoft claims the API doesn't let them do that, which is possible. Perhaps Google doesn't expose the necessary APIs. Or perhaps to get the ad, you call "GetAd" with the video ID, and expect Google to Do The Right Thing(tm) and return an appropriate ad (which makes sense - do you expect the client to retrieve the ad, do some analysis and if it doesn't work, get another ad? Geez, look at the bandwidth waste!). Of course, perhaps Microsoft isn't dumb and they looked at how Google wrote their YouTube apps on iOS and Android, and saw they were calling some unknown API to fix it.

Of course, "Google Can Do No Evil" attitude is quite prevalent, and I suppose like Apple fanboys, they refuse to see any bad things their company does. It's easy to hate Microsoft. It's easy to hate Apple. But hate Google and the fanboys can be just as vicious as Apple ones.

No. Microsoft doesn't claim the API doesn't let them do that. They are very careful in their wording. "Our app serves Google’s advertisements using all the metadata available to us." and " We’ve asked Google to provide whatever information iPhone and Android get so that we can mirror the way ads are served on these platforms more precisely. So far at least, Google has refused to give this information to us." do not add up to "The API doesn't let us do that"

Google are the new Doubleclick, and claiming they do no evil is ridiculous, but so is your post.

Re:Only relevant line (2)

symbolset (646467) | about 8 months ago | (#44580733)

Google is running a service. I believe the appropriate terms are "we reserve the right to refuse service."

Re:Only relevant line (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580843)

No. Microsoft doesn't claim the API doesn't let them do that. They are very careful in their wording. "Our app serves Google’s advertisements using all the metadata available to us." and " We’ve asked Google to provide whatever information iPhone and Android get so that we can mirror the way ads are served on these platforms more precisely. So far at least, Google has refused to give this information to us." do not add up to "The API doesn't let us do that"

Google are the new Doubleclick, and claiming they do no evil is ridiculous, but so is your post.

Micrsoft is whinig "Google won't tell us all of the internal data and the algorithms they use to choose ads! How are we going to compete with theitr ad serving if they won't tell us their trade secrets!"

Re:Only relevant line (1, Insightful)

cheater512 (783349) | about 8 months ago | (#44580703)

Except a whole pile of other apps like the Blackberry one use the exact same APIs Microsoft has access to.
And Google doesn't have a problem with them.

The Google apps for iOS and Android do use other APIs to the public one for companies like Microsoft.
However Microsoft isn't allowing Google to write the Windows Phone app.

Re:Only relevant line (3, Insightful)

wmac1 (2478314) | about 8 months ago | (#44580729)

However Microsoft isn't allowing Google to write the Windows Phone app.

Who said that?

This is not about fanboyism (2)

dutchwhizzman (817898) | about 8 months ago | (#44580715)

MicroSoft had plenty of time to fix it after they got into the first round of the altercation. I doubt they'd have trouble if they actually asked Google for coding help when they found out (they must have done that themselves) that they didn't get the ads serving done properly using the documented API calls. To me this seems like a case of "too stubborn and proud to accept they need help" and they got their app blocked.

Mind you, it's not as if you can't view YouTube on Windows Phone 8 anymore, it's just that you have to use a web browser to do so. The users aren't being deprived by Google, only MicroSofts app is. It's not directly about copyrights or cash money either, it's about the ads that are supposed to pay for the content. This was clearly the only reason Google was going to block them if they didn't fix it properly and they knew from the moment they got their notice that they weren't doing it properly.

Re:Only relevant line (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580859)

It's easy to hate Microsoft.

So you say, but to be fair, how can you hate them when they've generously retracted all the vicious slanders they've hurled at Google and other competitors over the years? Scroogled, anyone?

How can you stay angry with them when they've so publicly recanted their "235 patents", "FOSS is a cancer" and "Get the Facts" lies and done so much to redress the damage to Linux and the FOSS community?

Why would you hold them in contempt when they're reversed all the damage they caused by whiteanting ISO and blocking the adoption of genuinely open document formats? Though it's true that it would be better if they stopped issuing fake DMCA takedowns [techdirt.com] of their competitors.

And of course, there's no way in the world they could have deliberately provoked this latest contretemps by publishing a non-conforming app without informing or consulting the Google engineers who'd been working with them. That'd be really unlikely, especially given how much contrition they've shown for their past misadventures...

Re:Only relevant line (2)

symbolset (646467) | about 8 months ago | (#44580921)

Microsoft's problem here is not "embrace". It's that their partner understands the next two steps are "extend" and "extinguish". Google's opting out at the hug.

Re:Only relevant line (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about 8 months ago | (#44580819)

You left out the part where Microsoft asserts this is due to Google hiding metadata from Microsoft that is provided to other YouTube apps, which is the cause of the divergence.

Jesus H. Christ Luvs Microsoft (5, Funny)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 8 months ago | (#44580577)

"But boy, Microsoft didn't take it quietly."

Good for Microsoft, defending all eight of its Windows Phone customers.

Re:Jesus H. Christ Luvs Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580743)

Let me just add that that's 3 times the count of Linux desktop users.

(MS has 3.7% share of phone market, Linux has less than 1% of desktop. If we assume the size of two markets to be almost the same, then that's what we can conclude).

Re:Jesus H. Christ Luvs Microsoft (5, Insightful)

jamesh (87723) | about 8 months ago | (#44580873)

Let me just add that that's 3 times the count of Linux desktop users.

(MS has 3.7% share of phone market, Linux has less than 1% of desktop. If we assume the size of two markets to be almost the same, then that's what we can conclude).

While you are technically correct (normally the best kind of correct), this is slashdot and pointing out elephants will not be tolerated.

Re:Boo (1)

ls671 (1122017) | about 8 months ago | (#44580681)

I must admit it is kind reinvigorating to see Microsoft getting the same kind of treatment only Microsoft could give to others just 5 to 10 years ago. I am not saying Google is better although, their turn might come some day too.

Re:Boo (1)

Phantom Gremlin (161961) | about 8 months ago | (#44580797)

Bingo.

Microsoft in the '90s felt free to sodomize at will most of the software industry as well as most of the hardware industry. Today they're a minnow in mobile and they hate it when the sharks aren't playing nice with them.

Boo hoo is exactly right.

Re:Boo (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580697)

I guess the obvious argument is that MS has behaved very similarly in the past vis-a-vis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Opera_web_browser#First_MSN.com_controversy and all that.

But why is it okay to laugh it off when Google to does it? Holding grudges against a company is really abstract and doesn't make any sense given that companies are composed of many different people and probably like 3/4 of the people are different now than they were back then.

Re:Boo (5, Informative)

symbolset (646467) | about 8 months ago | (#44580775)

Microsoft's CEO has sworn to "fucking kill Google [theregister.co.uk] ", saying "I've done it before and I can do it again." He's spending several billion dollars a year on that effort, historically more than $16 Billion [businessinsider.com] if you include aQuantive. He's spending several billion dollars a year on the Google-bashing [scroogled.com] campaign. It's not like Microsoft is some random developer here innocently trying to get their app to work.

Stick to your values Google (1)

8ball629 (963244) | about 8 months ago | (#44580437)

What ever happened to your "don't be evil" mantra? Obviously you're dealing with a historically evil company, but don't stoop to their level.

Re:Stick to your values Google (4, Insightful)

symbolset (646467) | about 8 months ago | (#44580485)

"Don't be evil" doesn't extend to picking up that blood-soaked hitchhiker with a chainsaw. That's covered by the "don't be stupid" corrolary.

Re:Stick to your values Google (5, Insightful)

Virtucon (127420) | about 8 months ago | (#44580553)

Really so what you're saying is that if Google builds the apps and distributes them, that's Okay but if Microsoft or any third party ISV builds an app using their public APIs and then distributes that is a blood-soaked hitchhiker?

Since Microsoft has been through the Anti-Trust wringer before, you can bet that this little problem will get all the attention they can dig out of it, in the press and with the DOJ lawyers and the FTC. If Google publishes an API and says "use it, it's open" and then somebody picks up that mantle and builds something using it only to have Google shut it down for fictitious reasons, then at that point you have to call bullshit on the whole openness agenda and "do no evil." When Apple pulled Google Maps out of IOS, Google cried foul [mobileburn.com] because Apple has to approve all apps on their platform and yes, Apple's customers cried foul as well because the Apple Maps app sucked but it seems that Apple, Google and Microsoft are all in this little arms race of what they call "open" APIs and services but when somebody implements an API using them that happens to be another 800 lb gorilla you bet the games will start. Eventually if they don't play nice, it'll wind up in court with a long drawn out legal proceeding and while Google has dodged a few bullets of late, they won't dodge a bullet if MSFT comes back with documentation that Google is playing tricks to maintain a competitive advantage. After all, Google announced that they wouldn't be building apps for Windows Phone.

Re:Stick to your values Google (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580585)

Really so what you're saying is that if Google builds the apps and distributes them, that's Okay but if Microsoft or any third party ISV builds an app using their public APIs and then distributes that is a blood-soaked hitchhiker?

Yup.

Re:Stick to your values Google (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 8 months ago | (#44580659)

...t'll wind up in court with a long drawn out legal proceeding...

Sounds like a good business plan... for laundering money and evading taxes with deductible 'expenses'.

Re:Stick to your values Google (3, Interesting)

Architect_sasyr (938685) | about 8 months ago | (#44580691)

Not defensive of either company here - Google wrote their own apps for iOS and Android and not for MS, ok, MS got given a list of requirements to comply with something that will be used in a not-insignificant market share, but there's this little gem which I almost missed the first read through:

based on HTML5 would be technically difficult and time consuming, which is why we assume YouTube has not yet made the conversion for its iPhone and Android apps.

For this reason, we made a decision this week to publish our non-HTML5 app while committing to work with Google long-term on an app based on HTML5.

Which I'm reading as "fuck it, too hard, let's just release what we've done and see what happens". Now they complain.

Bingo. Typical MS arrogance at work. (4, Interesting)

Camael (1048726) | about 8 months ago | (#44580903)

Lets backtrack a bit to the MS post when they released the new youtube app [winsupersite.com] .

We’ve released an updated YouTube app for Windows Phone that provides the great experience our consumers expect while addressing the concerns Google expressed in May, including the addition of ads," a Microsoft statement notes. "We appreciate Google’s support in ensuring that Windows Phones customers have a quality YouTube experience and look forward to continuing the collaboration.

Note the parts in bold. MS lied, they didn't address it. So Google saw MS thumbing their nose, went WTF, got pissed off and blocked it [engadget.com] .

We're committed to providing users and creators with a great and consistent YouTube experience across devices, and we've been working with Microsoft to build a fully featured YouTube for Windows Phone app, based on HTML5. Unfortunately, Microsoft has not made the browser upgrades necessary to enable a fully-featured YouTube experience, and has instead re-released a YouTube app that violates our Terms of Service.

MS gets slapped with its hand caught in the cookie jar and then admits that its 'new' app did not comply with Google's request that it be in HTML5 :-

For this reason, we made a decision this week to publish our non-HTML5 app while committing to work with Google long-term on an app based on HTML5.

Note that the new app was pushed out without Google's approval, unlike what they implied. Typical MS arrogance and lies at work. I feel sorry for any Winph8 users caught in the crossfire, but MS does not deserve any sympathy in this matter.

Re:Bingo. Typical MS arrogance at work. (2)

Virtucon (127420) | about 8 months ago | (#44580927)

If Google's conditions were HTML 5 then yes, Microsoft would have a problem there but they do make a good point that Google hasn't released an HTML 5 compliant version for Android or IOS for YouTube, so this becomes much more interesting rather than arrogant. Google is playing cat and mouse with Microsoft and teetering on the brink of an anti-trust lawsuit.

Re:Stick to your values Google (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580741)

The whole Anti-Trust process is a joke to begin with, so to use that as an example is a poor one.

Re:Stick to your values Google (2)

symbolset (646467) | about 8 months ago | (#44580791)

What I'm saying is that if the guy says "I'm going to fucking kill you [theregister.co.uk] " I don't let him in my house. Forgive the fuck out of me. I thought that was just fucking prudent.

Re:Stick to your values Google (1)

Virtucon (127420) | about 8 months ago | (#44580915)

I don't see is Microsoft saying that to Google. Google doesn't want Google's services running on Windows Phone unless they can completely control the circumstances of how they're delivered. Google has said that it has no interest in building apps for Windows Phone and prohibiting somebody else from doing it is anti-competitive since MSFT has done everything they've been asked to do by Google, with the exception of HTML 5. They've pointed out that the Android Youtube app and the IOS Youtube app don't comply with HTML 5. When companies start putting up these barriers to prevent competition, this it becomes anti-competitive behavior and it winds up in litigation at some point. If Microsoft's side of the story is accurate, then Google may be in for some legal hassles down the road.

Re:Stick to your values Google (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580565)

Wow, Google apologists will go to any level to justify their behavior. Even your analogy is completely ridiculous, you cant actually think that Google allowing YouTube on Windows Phone would make it a threat to them? And even if you did think that you also think it is completely justified of them to lock out a competitor? Nobody would or has deemed that behavior acceptable from Microsoft but somehow because its Google its ok. You dont have to defend everything Google does (unless you're a paid shill) just because you use their products or dislike their competitors.

Re:Stick to your values Google (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580677)

And how do you justify the behaviour of one of the most despicable companies in existence? Did you really think they could attack and disparage Google without any ramifications? How stupid are they at MS?

Re:Stick to your values Google (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580893)

And how do you justify the behaviour of one of the most despicable companies in existence?

You dont have to. Why do you apologists take every criticism of Google as though its somehow coming from a pro-Microsoft camp? It's this way the fanboys justify ignoring all criticism of their beloved Google, just pretend everything bad about Google is made up by Microsoft and if that fails just derail the conversation by pointing to something that Microsoft has done that is worse.

Re:Stick to your values Google (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580619)

good luck trying to follow the "don't be evil" in the following situation: stand next to someone with one hand tied behind their back and a grenade with the pin pulled in the other hand and then ask to shake their hand

Re:Stick to your values Google (2)

jamesh (87723) | about 8 months ago | (#44580891)

What ever happened to your "don't be evil" mantra? Obviously you're dealing with a historically evil company, but don't stoop to their level.

Normally i'm rooting for Google, especially in a battle against Microsoft. When the battle is "who can be the most evil" though, I'm somewhat conflicted.

It's almost like the Rebel Alliance coming to the conclusion that if the Empire blew up one planet, the Rebel Alliance need to blow up two planets in order to beat them.

Embrace? check. Extend? Ah, there's the problem. (4, Insightful)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about 8 months ago | (#44580439)

These kind of little inter-corporate kerfuffles happen from time to time.

Hmm. I'm not sure it's interoperable issue when it come to MS, it's always furthering their agenda. In this case, removing ads and preventing Google from monetizing the content it delivers.

When we first built a YouTube app for Windows Phone, we did so with the understanding that Google claimed to grow its business based on open access to its platforms and content

Fuck right off MS. You claim to grow your XBox business via games and subscription fees, but your EULA says I can't block the ads on the homepage with my router without being in breech of your EULA. Oh, but you're fine with blocking Google's ads and then playing the martyr when they ban your app just like you banned my xbox.

Re:Embrace? check. Extend? Ah, there's the problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580463)

Blocking ads? According to the MS letter, they're serving the ads using "all available metadata."

Re:Embrace? check. Extend? Ah, there's the problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580479)

In the initial app - according to the same MS letter - they disabled google ads, and enabled video downloading.

Re:Embrace? check. Extend? Ah, there's the problem (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580617)

But this is not about the initial app.

Re:Embrace? check. Extend? Ah, there's the problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580477)

Hmm. I'm not sure it's interoperable issue when it come to MS, it's always furthering their agenda. In this case, removing ads and preventing Google from monetizing the content it delivers.

Wrong it doesn't block ads.

Oh, but you're fine with blocking Google's ads and then playing the martyr when they ban your app just like you banned my xbox.

Wrong again they dont block ads.

Re:Embrace? check. Extend? Ah, there's the problem (1)

Fluffeh (1273756) | about 8 months ago | (#44580593)

Wrong it doesn't block ads.

The original app did. That's when Google stepped in and dropped the hammer. They gave MS a list of things to do. Even from reading the article, the chap says that they haven't done all of these. Google wanted the app in HTML5 - the app isn't. They wanted other features implemented (which aren't for whatever reason, blame MS or Google - it sort of doesn't matter - they are not implemented) so Google has pulled the plug.

While I am not totally convinced that at least part of this isn't Google playing tough and messing with MS, it doesn't sound like MS has a huge platform to stand on. Do what google asks so that Google will serve you THEIR content.

From TFA:

There was one sticking point in the collaboration. Google asked us to transition our app to a new coding language – HTML5. This was an odd request since neither YouTube’s iPhone app nor its Android app are built on HTML5. Nevertheless, we dedicated significant engineering resources to examine the possibility. At the end of the day, experts from both companies recognized that building a YouTube app based on HTML5 would be technically difficult and time consuming, which is why we assume YouTube has not yet made the conversion for its iPhone and Android apps.

I am personally not a fan of "Do as I say, not as I do..." but when you are giving your market competitor access to your content like this, it doesn't seem a totally unreasonable request, does it?

Re:Embrace? check. Extend? Ah, there's the problem (1)

Thanshin (1188877) | about 8 months ago | (#44580851)

When we first built a YouTube app for Windows Phone, we did so with the understanding that Google claimed to grow its business based on open access to its platforms and content

Google must be populated by zen monks not to reply to this with words only used after hitting the bed post with your little toe.

It goes beyond not deserving an answer. It deserves a slap and a moment of silence so he can think on what he just said.

Dafuq (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580451)

Who uses a Windows phone, anyway? At least Google tells me up front they're using and selling my data, and I can always replace various apps with my own code. Microsoft quietly eavesdrops, loudly denies, and deafeningly bullshits.

Re:Dafuq (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580507)

At least Google tells me up front they're using and selling my data

yeah i suppose you also ignorantly believe that when they captured and stored wifi network data with their streetview cars that it was the result of a "software glitch", or when they circumvented privacy settings on safari browsers so they could install cookies for ad tracking. dont be naive, just because they *say* they do no evil doesnt mean you *have* to believe it.

strategery (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580453)

Microsoft should just scrap Bing, and split Google's search monopoly in two.

I'm quite sure... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580455)

...that both remaining Windows Phone users will be devastated to find they can no longer watch their lolcat videos. The rest of the world couldn't give a flying monkeys about this. (And Microsoft are being hugely disingenuous with their blog post whining about a competitor doing even a tiny fraction of the kind of thing that they do to others themselves without batting an eyelid.)

Suck it up, MS (1, Insightful)

Dog-Cow (21281) | about 8 months ago | (#44580483)

Both the iOS and Android apps are written by Google. They are free to do whatever they want. Any 3rd-party that wants to display videos in their app has to use the HTML5 (or Flash) player. I don't see why MS should be treated differently.

I presume that MS reserves the right for first-party apps on Windows Phone to use private APIs to implement features no other app can have. Apple certainly does this. Similarly, Google is not bound to using Dalvik for UI if they don't want to.

Many of those things not so (4, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | about 8 months ago | (#44580525)

Both the iOS and Android apps are written by Google.

That's not true. There are scores of YouTube playing apps on the iOS app store. You can download an IOS YouTube app written by Google, but it's not the only one and I don't think ships by default on the device anymore.

I presume that MS reserves the right for first-party apps on Windows Phone to use private APIs to implement features no other app can have. Apple certainly does this.

Apple generally does NOT do this. Not because they are a bunch of saints but because they are not a bunch of damn amateur coders.

Apple doesn't use private API's for their own software for the same reason they don't want other app developers to - because using private APIs means breakage at some point down the line, or because you want to do an API change but some moron on Word (or Pages) made use of a private API and now you have to coordinate with them as to when you can change the API. API interfaces are there for a reason... they protect both sides.

Of course internal Apple products have earlier access to API updates than everyone else (and probably more say as to what API changes need to be made), but there has been no indication that most Apple software that ships on iOS is doing anything you couldn't do yourself. Apple even demonstrates at WWDC how to make apps similar to ones they are shipping.

There are sort of exceptions to the rule in that at times there are whole private frameworks they use to implement some feature (like carrousels) or Settings.app which has to manipulate all kinds of things other applications are not allowed to touch. But by and large any Apple iOS application could be written from scratch if you had a mind to do so.

Re:Many of those things not so (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580609)

Youtube never had a public api to get to the video url, and they regularly change how it works and break apps. Of course the main reason being ads, you either display their own html site (normal or mobile) or can't make a youtube app at all without hacking.

Hizzy (0)

Konster (252488) | about 8 months ago | (#44580487)

The three users of Windows Phone are probably all up in a hizzy about this.

Re:Hizzy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580631)

...that both remaining Windows Phone users will be devastated to fin...

The three users of Windows Phone are probably all up in a hizzy about this.

Damn, 9 minutes and Windows phone user base has grown 50%. At this rate M$ will soon rule the phone scene...

ok MS add easy slide loading same setting as andro (1, Insightful)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 8 months ago | (#44580489)

and let Google code there own youtube app with MS having no say or control over the app.

Re:ok MS add easy slide loading same setting as an (3, Insightful)

batkiwi (137781) | about 8 months ago | (#44580863)

Google CAN write their own youtube app. Today they can, and it would be on the MS app store within a few days.

Google has made a corporate decision to write 0 windows phone apps.

How dare Google act like MS from 20 years ago! (2)

Michael O-P (31524) | about 8 months ago | (#44580495)

I actually own a Windows phone, and it sucks that Google's acting like jerks. But really, what goes around, comes around.

Re:How dare Google act like MS from 20 years ago! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580527)

So it was wrong when Microsoft did it, but because Microsoft did it's ok for Google to do it?

We need to get past the "sticking it to Microsoft" mentality and focus on the fact that it's wrong no matter who does it.

Re:How dare Google act like MS from 20 years ago! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580669)

And when exactly did Microsoft do this?

Old days: Heh heh, if we tweak this API output it will give those clowns over Lotus fits! Let's do it!

Modern era: Sorry, running Lotus 1-2-3 is against the DOS terms-of-service, due to video memory access provision 6.3.A, so we're revoking your certificates.

Give me the good old days when they just fought dirty.

Re:How dare Google act like MS from 20 years ago! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580543)

Google and Apple are the new Microsoft.

I don't know about you but I'm looking for an exit from the Google and Apple islands.

Re:How dare Google act like MS from 20 years ago! (1)

TrueSpeed (576528) | about 8 months ago | (#44580651)

No, Microsoft is still the Microsoft of old. They'll never change regardless of what they say. They're still the same old company that'll do anything in their power to sabotage the competition. It's no wonder the OEM's despise them and are flocking to Google.

Re:How dare Google act like MS from 20 years ago! (4, Funny)

symbolset (646467) | about 8 months ago | (#44580549)

I actually own a Windows Phone too. It's an HTC HD7 my wife bought to spite me (ah, domestic bliss). She did it right - this was a WP "hero" phone, the benchmark of that day. She used it for three weeks thinking to school me but after a few rounds of "how do I do that cool thing you do on your Galaxy Phone" and the reply "your phone doesn't have that app" she gave up. It's in a drawer somewhere. I haven't seen it in a year. She uses a feature phone now, and is thinking about the Moto X - a real wood skin and awesome life would be just the thing to show up my GS3 with the ultrathick 3rd party extended life battery. She bought the teens iPhones to spite me quite more successfully. Our teens love their iPhones and I don't blame them - they're great gear. iThings are not my thing, but you have to let kids find their own religion.

Re:How dare Google act like MS from 20 years ago! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580627)

And there we have confirmation of the two Windows Phone owners!

There was speculation that there might only be one, but it appears that the other had been left in a drawer some where for the last year.

Re:How dare Google act like MS from 20 years ago! (4, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 8 months ago | (#44580643)

+10 Unintentional Irony

Poor Microsoft, the company whose motto was at one time "It's not done until Lotus won't run!" The company that intentionally used a non-compliant Kerberos variant to foul up interoperability with *nix systems. The company that went out of its way to kill Netscape and then let the web rot for five years with IE6. The company that intentionally violated its Java licensing agreement with Sun in an attempt to enact its major philosophy; "Embrace, Extend and Extinguish".

Yes indeed, what goes around does indeed come around.

Re:How dare Google act like MS from 20 years ago! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580781)

OK, so let's all pull out the pom-poms and cheerlead Google when they pull the exact same monopolistic shit?

One of the reason Slashdot is still ironically entertaining is because it's full of veterans of the "old war".* The good guy/bad guy mentality is firmly rooted in 1998. So, yeah, Google owns all your shit, and is handing it over to the government, but at least they didn't break your applet in 1998 because Scott McNeely was being a douche.

The technology industry favors the young and it's now full of people who have never heard of "Stacker", "Lotus", "Netscape", or "Sun". Meanwhile Google has established total market dominance, and can abuse it however they feel necessary. The backlash has already started and soon will be at a fevered pitch.

When it comes the "next war", you have to decide: Will you chose the right side, or will you be the knee-jerker whining about the 1990s?

(*Admittedly, I'm a vet of the war previous to that, when 'good guy' Microsoft saved us from 'bad guy' IBM's patented PC hardware.)

Re:How dare Google act like MS from 20 years ago! (1)

shione (666388) | about 8 months ago | (#44580789)

NO. Because that would be helping microsoft to become a monopoly again. And you know what will happen then. Do you really think they have changed their ways?

Wow, who'd have thought that, in this fight... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580539)

You'd be rooting for Microsoft?

Re:Wow, who'd have thought that, in this fight... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580647)

You seem to be having trouble reading the tone of the responses here.

This from the company... (3, Informative)

Guest316 (3014867) | about 8 months ago | (#44580575)

...who introduced intentional glitches in Windows when it detected [archive.org] you were running it on anything but genuine MS-DOS.

Not that I have a whole lot of sympathy for Google these days either...

Windows Phone is DOA (0, Troll)

The Cisco Kid (31490) | about 8 months ago | (#44580583)

Who cares, other than Steve Chair-throwing Ballmer.

Re:Windows Phone is DOA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580615)

I actually like windows phone, not the newer versions with the crap tiles, but like 6.x ... it had promise but just like anything mobile microsoft farted it out and left the room, I hold no other expectations for the current generations

HOW YOU SAY . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580597)

Payback is a motherfuck !!

FairSearch (1)

TrueSpeed (576528) | about 8 months ago | (#44580641)

Perhaps Microsoft should stop spreading FUD about Google? Or perhaps they should stop forming shill organizations to do their dirty work by proxy. Or perhaps they should stop trying to undermine Google by pleading with governments to investigate them for anti-trust violations. But, let's start off easily and just retire those pathetic and embarrassing Gmail Man ads. I have to give credit to Google for graciously hosting them on YouTube - I would have deleted their account and blocked their IP.

Microsoft is simply getting what they deserve. If you want to act like a jerk then prepare for the blow back.

Man I'm sick of Google (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580649)

Man there's a lot of Google fan boys on Slashdot. Google is screwing over MS and yeah MS if fun to pick on but look around Google is quickly becoming "the man". We should all be giving them both barrels over this. Cutting MS out for the 2nd time and trying to close off access to youtube is ridiculous. If youtube was a separate company no way in hell would they want turn away an additional user base like this.

I'm one of those windows phone users and the original app that just wrapped the web version stunk. These last two revisions with a real native app are great (well were great yesterday, it doesn't work today) and you'd think they'd want users to have a good experience on however it's done.

Re:Man I'm sick of Google (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580661)

Perhaps you should voice your displeasure to Microsoft for being assholes? It's hard to make friends when you're an asshole. And right now, MS has no friends. Everything they touch is a failure.

Re:Man I'm sick of Google (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580731)

MS isn't just fun to pick on, they deserve it too! Picking on them is like enjoying a fat free doughnut.

mmmm.... doughnuts

Re:Man I'm sick of Google (1)

guitardood (934630) | about 8 months ago | (#44580871)

Not necessarily Google fanboys as much as sick of Microsoft running rough shot over the entire industry for the last 15+ years.

What was once going around is coming around and MS' up-pence has come.

Not glad about their trouble, but happy to see proof of Karma.

I stopped to read... (1)

l3v1 (787564) | about 8 months ago | (#44580655)

...when I ran into this: "that it doesnâ(TM)t impose on its own platform or Appleâ(TM)s (both of which use Google as the default search engine, of course).". So, they complain about an app being blocked, but they start by pointing fingers - again - about search engine use. FairSearch anyone? So after that line, I couldn't care less. MS wants a Youtube app on WP? Then do that Google wants, s*ck it up - remember (funny they'd need to be reminded so often) your users should have the priority, not your corporate ego.

Ban MS Office for Android then (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 8 months ago | (#44580671)

If Google wants to be assholes to sell more Android phones then Microsoft should do the same back to them.

I mean seriously are they that worried?

Re:Ban MS Office for Android then (1)

TrueSpeed (576528) | about 8 months ago | (#44580685)

I'd be fine with that. It's a POS app that requires a 365 subscription to even use.

Re:Ban MS Office for Android then (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 8 months ago | (#44580755)

Microsoft can't. It's making too much money off of dubious patents that Google licenses for Android,. not to mention the money it makes from licensing ActiveSync.

Such a sadly wasted opportunity by Google! (1)

tlambert (566799) | about 8 months ago | (#44580799)

They blocked it with a weird message.

Instead, they could have Rick-Rolled them, which would have shown a sense of style, panache, and humor.

Shame on you, Google!

Apps for websites again (1)

safetyinnumbers (1770570) | about 8 months ago | (#44580827)

Is there some big advantage to viewing youtube via an app? I just use the browser on IOS. I used to use the app before it was removed in an upgrade, but I don't remember the experience being any better.

haha, not so much fun being at the other end of th (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580833)

Oh my, how times have changed. MS complaining about being at the short end of the stick.

You know, some of us do remember how "easy" they made it to write for example a file system driver.

Microsoft could have released a WINDOWS phone (1)

Karmashock (2415832) | about 8 months ago | (#44580849)

That is a literal windows phone... that could run windows software. Someone got windows XP to run on andriod so MS could have just made their phone OS windows. Obviously supply a proper phone GUI or work in your metro surface stuff so that its all touch centric. That's fine. But if the phone ran WINDOWS software then anyone could just pop their browser open on the phone and just have Adobe Flash render the video.

Google would have no ability to dick with it because doing so would dick with all the desktop windows users which is not a game google wants to play.

MS is fragmenting their user base with these mutually incompatible operating systems. Why is the Xbox OS different from windows? No reason for it. I could see why you'd have a different explorer for it. That is the GUI exe for windows... its called explorer and it generates the desktop and windows etc. But the core operating system is independent of that.

All these systems could have the same OS with different GUIs. Their programs would be cross compatible and the smaller devices especially with smaller user bases would get the benefit of all the programs available to all the other systems.

If/When MS does this they'll instantly win. Until they do they're going to keep failing.

Whining blog post. (3, Insightful)

drolli (522659) | about 8 months ago | (#44580861)

As far as i can see, MS wants google to maintain a non-standard (non html5) interface to youtube. The precedence cases it cites for such an interface are apps which existed before html5 was settled enough to be ready for that. Google wants to serve cotent by html5 and advised MS to use html5 to *correctly* display the videos. MS like to do their own shit and expects google to maintain an interface for them.

Dear MS: Earlier in your life, you may have had the position where any company would have loved to create an interface so that your applications talk to it, and maybe thats still the case for office apps. I dont see exactly how i can access office 356 by and API so that i could lets say... implement and own small helping app on android to enter some data in some documents. Wouldnt that be the same kind of thing? O i forgot probably theo people who like to do it are not big enough to be interesting for you. So neither is the market share of windows phone.

I agree that a complete API to youtube would be nice, but there are many things which google should rank higher in their priorities.

Why is an app needed in the first place? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44580883)

I must be missing something. I don't use an 'app' to access Youtube on XP, so why do Windows phones, that boast they have a better OS than XP (hahahahahaha), need an app so their users can view Youtube videos?

Google may be NSA filth, but they have no reason to allow MS to leech of any of their services. Microsoft should only expect to ensure access to Google web services through an ordinary browser. Google may provide APIs, but they certainly don't do so to enrich MS.

Rather than screwing around with devices no-one wants or needs, Microsoft should focus on its core business. A full version of Windows on ARM. Throwing out the garbage RT/Metro/New-UI crap from desktop Windows. A fully revamped Xbox Two by the end of 2014 to catch up with the graphics power of the PS4. A PROPER app store for all software that can run on Windows, not just the RT crap.

However, I am glad to see MS make all the wrong decisions, and fail far faster than the inevitable demise of the Wintel PC would imply. Microsoft hasn't made one single smart decision in years now, and banging their heads against Google's mobile dominance is just pitiful.

Google is scewing Mircosoft (1)

enter to exit (1049190) | about 8 months ago | (#44580909)

MS has no incentive to screw with Google. It knows Google is very alert and capable of fighting back.

The theory that MS is deliberately messing with youtube ads is preposterous. MS needs a working youtube app for windows phone. MS knows very well that if they do anything nefarious google will simply block the app. Google has zero incentive to help MS build a youtube app, they're dragging their feet and likely acting because of the possibility of DoJ action.

Here's an idea: Google sees Windows Phone as its only long term competitor, unlike iOS (which will always be limited by Apple's insistence on hardware control), WP8 can be licensed by any hardware manufacturer. WP8 might be a small competitor but it's its only competitor. All the other OSs are either for feature phones or don't have any commercial backing. WP8 is a decent phone OS, its largest problem is the lack of apps.
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