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The Cryonics Institute Offers a Chance at Immortality (Video #2)

Roblimo posted 1 year,26 days | from the living-forever-sounds-kind-of-boring dept.

Biotech 155

Today's interviewee is Cryonics Institute (CI) Director Andy Zawacki, who takes Slashdot's Robert Rozeboom into the facility where they keep the tanks with frozen people in them. Yesterday, Rob talked with David Ettinger, who is both the group's lawyer and the son of CI founder Robert Ettinger. For those of you who are obsessed with the process of vitrification, here's a link to a story about The Cryonics Institute's 69th Patient and how she was taken care of, starting at the moment of her deanimation (AKA death). The story has anatomical drawings, charts, and color pictures of Andy carrying out the actual procedure. But Cryonics, while endorsed as a concept by numerous scientists, may not be as good a way to insure immortality as transplanting your brain into a fresh (probably robotic) body, as Russian billionaire Dmitry Itskov hopes to do by 2035. There are also many groups that claim to offer spiritual (as opposed to corporeal) immortality. Which method of living forever works best? That remains to be seen, assuming any of them work at all. Perhaps we'll find out after the Singularity.

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Slashdotsicles (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623369)

Slashdotsicles

Re:Slashdotsicles (2)

Desler (1608317) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623469)

They should have frozen roblimo so we don't have to be spammed with his insufferable videos anymore.

Let me be the first (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623379)

Let me be the first to say STFU and GTFO with this advertisment.

Re:Let me be the first (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623679)

OH, I see the Cryogenics dipshits are applying their moderation points again. Fuck off, we don't want your stupid video today any more than we wanted it yesterday, we don't want to support your slashdot advertising, and we don't want to hear about how you've been freezing corpses in an effort to pocket more money from stupid people.

Re:Let me be the first (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623735)

What's all this "we" stuff? I'm quite capable of voicing my own displeasure at this dreck, thank-you very much.

First (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623389)

The Cyronics Institute are a bunch of quacks and con men. Discuss.

Re:First (0)

TWiTfan (2887093) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623451)

Well, you know what they say: A dumb-as-shit, desperate, gullible millionaire and his money are soon parted.

Re:First (1)

ackthpt (218170) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623615)

Well, you know what they say: A dumb-as-shit, desperate, gullible millionaire and his money are soon parted.

If not for his ruthless business acumen (or dumb luck or inheritance) he/she would not have the money to begin with.

By golly, the ends do justify the means!

Re:First (1)

Aguazul2 (2591049) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623667)

Well, you know what they say: A dumb-as-shit, desperate, gullible millionaire and his money are soon parted.

How many gullible millionaires are there reading slashdot? I think the more gullible one was the one paying slashdot to promote this. At least it is completely irrelevant to most slashdot reader's interests and is easily skippable. If they need cash perhaps they could also promote high technology skin creams for women.

Re:First (0)

snookerdoodle (123851) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623603)

As TWiTfan implied [slashdot.org] , this is one of those extremely rare examples where trickle-down economics actually works. Someone has figured out a way besides "Art" to get wealthy people to trickle some of their money out.

Re:First (1)

Em Adespoton (792954) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624069)

As TWiTfan implied [slashdot.org] , this is one of those extremely rare examples where trickle-down economics actually works. Someone has figured out a way besides "Art" to get wealthy people to trickle some of their money out.

Seems to me it's more the opposite; instead of this money going into general circulation, it's being frozen :D

Re:First (2)

Rude Turnip (49495) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623685)

The fact the freezing process destroys the cells is all you need to know that cryonics is bullshit.

There are a few ways to extend your life or consciousness, but the technology isn't there yet: a) cellular repair via nanobots gives you the same body for years to come; or b) high resolution brain scans to effectively digitize your brain.

I think if someone was desperate enough to preserve themselves today, I would go for the brain plasticization route. Then, hope one day that you can be scanned in and have your consciousness revived. Although here's something to ponder: would you really have a continuity of consciousness with that method...would it be like waking up from sleeping?

Re:First (1)

The Grim Reefer (1162755) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624147)

The fact the freezing process destroys the cells is all you need to know that cryonics is bullshit.

The fact that you have to already be dead before they can freeze you is a pretty big problem too. All kinds of crazy shit happens at the cellular level not long after death. Since they can't freeze you (near) instantaneously, there is already a lot of cellular damage even before freezing. This just ain't gonna work until Cerberus decides they need to bring commander Shepherd back.

Re:First (2)

JoshuaZ (1134087) | 1 year,26 days | (#44625035)

Yes, this is why it is important to get the body cooled quickly for cryonics to have any chance, and that's why when someone who has signed up for cryonics is dying, they generally get a team ready to go so as soon as the person dies they can immediately begin prepping the body (cooling it down first, perfusing with anti-freeze compounds and then reducing the temperature further to liquid nitrogen temps).

Re:First (2)

JoshuaZ (1134087) | 1 year,26 days | (#44625025)

Luckily, they don't freeze you, but rather pump you with anti-freeze compounds first. minimizing ice crystal growth. They haven't been trying direct freezing since the 1980s.

Re:First (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623779)

There really is nothing TO discuss because if they haven't come up with some magical potion that keeps 100% of the ice crystals from forming AND a way to unfreeze without damage all they are gonna end up with when they thaw it is mush anyway. The way it was explained to me its not the flash freezing that is the biggest problem, after all you dunk a head in liquid nitrogen and it'll flash freeze alright, the problem is in the thawing as THAT is where all the damage occurs.

That said this reminds me of that line from Devil's Advocate "Vanity, it has to be my favorite sin." because this is no different than all those mainstream religions selling life after death, in both cases they appeal to both the fear of death and the person's ego as THEY shouldn't have to just end like everybody else. Personally I hope we one day grow beyond all this insanity and accept that we have one spin at the wheel and thus have to make the most of what we have but considering religions go back over 4000 years, all selling life after death? I kinda doubt it.

Your information is out of date (5, Informative)

tlambert (566799) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624233)

There really is nothing TO discuss because if they haven't come up with some magical potion that keeps 100% of the ice crystals from forming AND a way to unfreeze without damage all they are gonna end up with when they thaw it is mush anyway. The way it was explained to me its not the flash freezing that is the biggest problem, after all you dunk a head in liquid nitrogen and it'll flash freeze alright, the problem is in the thawing as THAT is where all the damage occurs.

Actually, it's typically done these days using organ vitrification, which prevents ice crystals from forming. For most crypoprotectants used in the process of vitrification, you are limited to one cell type one which it has best effect. The CI folks mostly try their best to preserve the brain without freezing damage, at the expense of some of the other cell types. This has been successfully used on laboratory animal organ transplants for mammalian livers, kidneys, and hearts; the first reference is a patent on the method of prepping the organ, which the second is a PubMed article case study dealing with a rabbit kidney vitrification and subsequent live transplant.

https://www.google.com/patents/US5723282 [google.com]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2781097/ [nih.gov]

There has also been some interesting work in the last 5 years using in Japan using a 0.01 mT magnetic field. This prevents ice crystals from forming. The technique was originally developed by ABI, a Japanese company using a technique they call the "Calls Alive System", for storing sushi at cryogenic temperatures without permitting formation of ice crystals by triggerning through the glass phase change without normal expansion you would typically have with ice. The technique is currently being used for long term storage of live teeth, and has shown some merit for other larger organs:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20478291 [nih.gov]
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0011224010000854 [sciencedirect.com]

Re:First (1)

tnk1 (899206) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624433)

Most religions don't suggest that you will be special or different in having an afterlife. Some do, but most are selling it for everyone. After all, you want your friends and relatives to be there with you. You might not even mind your enemies being there, if they will be well behaved.

You have more of a point when you discuss the fear of death thing. That is certainly a universal fear that religion might take your mind off of.

Re:First (1)

Kjella (173770) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624731)

in both cases they appeal to both the fear of death and the person's ego as THEY shouldn't have to just end like everybody else

I don't want to die, it has nothing to do with other people. Nor is it fear of death, it's desire of life. Why should I want a good thing to come to an end? I'm quite content with my mortality, but if I was offered immortality hell yes I'd take it. I'm just not interested in snake oil of pseudo-scientific or supernatural character.

Re:First (0)

hairyfeet (841228) | 1 year,26 days | (#44625011)

Oh don't get me wrong, if some corp said "If you work for us for say a century to pay off the cost of this new Billy Badass Android body we'll bolt your butt into you too can enjoy immortality"? You damned straight I'll take it, just don't feed me a line of horseshit with ZERO success stories as a viable plan.

This is the problem I have with most religions, especially Christians (don't have much contact with the others living in the bible belt) as they have ZERO proof that their book is any more true than say the book or Isis or the stories of Zoroaster (which frankly i think a LOT of the stuff attributed to Jesus was ripped from Zoroaster, water to wine, raising the dead ring any bells?) yet I'm supposed to change MY life and MY values so I can worship a God that frankly if you actually READ the book comes off as a powermad bully at best and a genocidal sociopath at worst? No thanks, I'm not buying.

As for this crap show me ONE guy, just one, that has actually been unfrozen and is actually functional and THEN I'll be happy to buy their bullshit but until this it sounds like a great way for a few corps to get rich on the fear of death, that is all.

Re:First (2)

Twinbee (767046) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623879)

It's reasonable to assume that future technology (look at 500 or even 5000 years ahead) can be so advanced that it can successfully defreeze someone, especially if they are frozen immediately after 'death'. A rabbit kidney has apparently been "completely vitrified to solid state at 135C, rewarmed and transplanted to a rabbit with complete viability".

Re:First (1)

hawguy (1600213) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624227)

It's reasonable to assume that future technology (look at 500 or even 5000 years ahead) can be so advanced that it can successfully defreeze someone, especially if they are frozen immediately after 'death'. A rabbit kidney has apparently been "completely vitrified to solid state at 135C, rewarmed and transplanted to a rabbit with complete viability".

Even if you assume it's possible (a *big* assumption), the bigger question is *why* would society want to thaw someone from our time 500 or even 5000 years ahead? Sure, there might be enough scientific curiosity to thaw a few of us just to talk with us to find out what life was really like back in 2020, but why would they want to thaw hundreds or thousands of people who are jobless with no family or means to support themselves, and will need extensive education and rehabilitation to re-enter society?

Re:First (2)

metamatic (202216) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624363)

... why would they want to thaw hundreds or thousands of people who are jobless with no family or means to support themselves, and will need extensive education and rehabilitation to re-enter society?

Slave labor. Medical experimentation. To put in zoos. There are many possibilities.

Re:First (1)

Immerman (2627577) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624595)

> *why* would society want to thaw someone from our time 500 or even 5000 years ahead?
Maybe the Society for Creative Anachronisms wants to throw the world's most authentic renaissance fair? Or maybe just why not? We've had the technology for some time now to create a techno-agrarian utopia, we just lack the social desire to do so - if that should ever change then there's no reason to believe resurrecting a few hundred thousand people would impose any particular hardships on anyone. Heck, even last year there averaged about 374,000 new people born per day, so a few hundred thousand reanimated corpsicles could easily be lost in the noise. Or harnessed if used wisely. I imagine Japan rather wishes they had bunkers full of adults on ice that they could introduce as needed to fine-tune their demographics in the coming decades. If they're smart they'll polish up their resume and have it tattooed on their chest, with an eye towards the fact that their best chance of being revived may end up being for unskilled labor.

Re:First (1)

skids (119237) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624717)

why would they want to thaw hundreds or thousands of people who are jobless with no family or means to support themselves, and will need extensive education and rehabilitation to re-enter society?

I dunno. Maybe they have gotten over hating people for their own ego's self gratification, happen to have some spare time on their hands, and do not particularly view such an education as a burden because they've developed kickass pedagogical techniques.

I mean, these days even with unemployment, social unrest, and environmental degradation, people still seem to find time to devote to sports, facebook, and other trivialities. Why not unfreezing people? It would make a great blog.

Re:First (0)

idontgno (624372) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624767)

the bigger question is *why* would society want to thaw someone from our time 500 or even 5000 years ahead?

Cheap transplant organs from rights-less involuntary donors [wikipedia.org]

Oh, no one said anything about "reviving" someone from 500 years ago. Just "thawing".

This is where successful organ vitrification mitigate AGAINST being revived, even if it were possible. You're more valuable as a well-frozen transplant source. A corpsicle. A frozen commodity.

Re:First (2)

tnk1 (899206) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624487)

Agreed. I think the tech is possible in the future.

What I don't believe is that we will be able to store people for 500 years or even 100 years. That means you need to guarantee a business that is there to maintain you for that long. I don't know of many businesses that have lasted 500 years. There are a very few, but not many. Places like this can go out of business just like any other business and since you're dead, you'll just end up as a biohazard waiting to be thrown in an incinerator once the money runs out. You just need one fool or criminal in control in that 500 year period, and there goes your maintenance fund right there.

Constitutional amendments (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623407)

1. Term limits, including for justices.
2. Repealing Amendment 17 and returning the election of senators to state legislatures
3. A congressional supermajority to override Supreme Court decisions (overruling what could be a stacked court)
4. Spending limit based on GDP
5. Taxation capped at 15%
6. Limiting the commerce clause, and strengthening private property rights
7. Power of states to override a federal statute by a three-fifths vote.

I'm bored, so I'll feed the troll. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623585)

1. Term limits, including for justices.

Ensuring that the lobbyists are always more experienced than the elected politicians. What, you didn't notice that freshman senators are usually fuckups?

2. Repealing Amendment 17 and returning the election of senators to state legislatures

What the hell state are you from? Because my state legislators are all idiots and/or crooks even more so than Federal legislators, and most of them run unopposed. At least the Senate race is actually a race. Don't see how this would be an improvement, frankly. Seems cargo-cultish, like "I'm pretty sure the system worked better before 1913, so let's move back to those procedural rules and everything will work out just like it did then, ignoring any technological or cultural changes that may have actually been the root cause of political change".

How about instead we distribute Senators equally by population, like they are required to be at the state level, so that 17% of the population can't round up a filibuster-capable plurality?

3. A congressional supermajority to override Supreme Court decisions (overruling what could be a stacked court)

Translation: a congressional supermajority can rewrite the Constitution at will. Have you been watching Congress lately? The only reason I'm not openly terrified by this is because getting a supermajority among these bickering children would be unthinkable.

4. Spending limit based on GDP

Translation: during a recession, cut spending some more. Austerity programs don't seem to work in practice, but they sure do work in theory, right? Just like Marxism.

5. Taxation capped at 15%

Sure, you just get everyone to agree on what to cut and we'll get right on it. None of this "well I only want the shit other people like to be cut!" nonsense.

6. Limiting the commerce clause, and strengthening private property rights

Sufficiently vague as to be meaningless.

7. Power of states to override a federal statute by a three-fifths vote.

Good news, you already can and it only takes three-fourths of states; it's called a Constitutional Amendment. Go reread Article V.

I'm reading 0-6 with one too close to call. Better luck next season.

Re:I'm bored, so I'll feed the troll. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623761)

Look the list isn't perfect and it's meant to start a conversation about the issues. It is good that you thought about them.

  You look at the government today, it is not really a representative republic. You got a massive bureaucracy pushing out 3,000 laws every year. Nobody has voted for them. Nobody even knows who they are.

You look at the Supreme Court today. One justice moving in one direction or the other, issues these breathtaking laws that have affected the entirety of society with no recourse. We have the president of the United States brazenly, you know, rewriting laws and saying if Congress doesn't act, he will act. And then you have Congress writing these massive laws under the cover of dark, issuing them quickly on matters that they don't have any write to legislate about, and conferring enormous authority on this departments and agencies they create, delegating lawmaking authorities to the executive branch.

So, it is not really a representative republic. It's not really a federal republic. It is a not a really a constitutional republic. Because we're unmoored from the Constitution. And for 100 years, the progressive movement, I call them the state-ists, have been chiseling away and chiseling away at the constitutional construct. And it is time for conservatives and other Americans to say, you know what? They've succeeded. This is why we have top-down government. This is why the government is involved in everything from selecting our toilets and our light bulbs and our automobiles and our toasters. Now they're in our health care. They're collecting all kinds of data on us.

And I'm simply saying, I think it is time, if Americans want to remain free, to start reacquainting ourselves with the Constitution and specifically article five and specifically the second part of article five, which is the amendment process. The framers thought, some of them in particular, that we might reach this point with an oppressive centralized government.

You look at the Constitution. It is written to prevent this, but they feared that, you know, politicians would lack virtue and we would reach this state. And so they left us a legacy. They left us the Second Amendment process under the Constitution which essentially bypasses Congress, bypasses the federal government and gives the states the power collectively in a convention -- not a constitutional convention --a convention the Constitution says for proposing amendments to the rest state.

Awesome Marketing (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623409)

Care to explain immortality after death to me? Just how does that work? I die, yet I'm immortal?

Re:Awesome Marketing (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623491)

The idea is that they freeze you just after you are declared dead (just because legally they cannot do that while you are still considered "alive") hoping that in the future people will have the means to thaw you out, restart your body and fix whatever problem that caused you to die in the first place.

He's Dead Jim. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44624275)

Dead.

Dammit Jim, I'm just a country doctor not the Lord almighty!

Re:Awesome Marketing (1)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623509)

Didn't Richard Nixon explain this to Leela and Fry already?

How many times can you die? (5, Insightful)

Valdrax (32670) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623711)

Care to explain immortality after death to me? Just how does that work? I die, yet I'm immortal?

The religious answer is generally that there is some essential component of you (i.e. a soul) that persists after death and enjoys some sort of continued existence after death, most commonly with an element or reward or punishment for how you lived in life. It isn't "you" that dies when your flesh does.

The scientific answer is that death is merely a broad word for a set of bodily failures that lead to the breakdown and dissolution of the biological machinery that sustains your consciousness and/or metabolism. As science advances, we roll back those defects and in some cases cure them.

Many wounds that were inevitably fatal are imminently curable now. Gut wounds used to ensure a horrible death due to sepsis. Antibiotics stopped that. Heart wounds used to ensure bleeding to death. Blood transplants and open-heart surgery stopped that. We are now at the point that we have to base death on the cessation and decay of the brain.

Soon, we may have to refine that to a question of information loss. If we can freeze the brain before any irreversible damage is done to it, then we may later be able to restore it or copy the information (i.e "you") off of it to another medium. And given advances in repairing the body, even "irreversible" may be subject to redefinition over time. The nice thing is that once your brain is frozen, we have all the time in the world to figure out how to undo whatever did you in.

And once restored in a new body, what reason is there to expect that you can't be periodically backed up in case of the worst? If you can die and still live, then are you not immortal for all practical purposes?

But this is, of course, all highly unproven technology. Scientific or not, it's still essentially a leap of faith. However, if you don't have a religious reason to believe that you will live on in some other fashion after death, and you've got the money to spare for it then it seems like a much fairer wager than Pascal's.

P.S. I shouldn't have said "frozen." (1)

Valdrax (32670) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623755)

If we can freeze the brain before any irreversible damage is done to it[...] The nice thing is that once your brain is frozen, we have all the time in the world to figure out how to undo whatever did you in.

P.S. Yes, I know I shouldn't have said "frozen." Freezing implies ice formation, which means destruction of the cell structure. A large part of cryonics is avoiding that while still preserving the tissues against decay. I was speaking off the cuff and forgot to be more precise. I know someone's going to rag me for it anyway.

Re:How many times can you die? (1)

RicktheBrick (588466) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624079)

I would not want my brain to be restored in another body. I would much prefer to be restored to a virtual world. One's brain would be artificially kept alive and stimulated with fake senses. One would not know the difference as the artificial world would seem just as real as what we experience now. Even in this artificial world one would not live forever. One would die and than be reborn in another body. One would not allow any memories of past life so as to make the present life seem to be the only one, one has. If one knew that one had infinite number of life than one would not take any of them seriously. Only after death would one realize the truth about their life and than would want to be reborn without any memories. In my opinion this is the only way one would want to live forever. On the television show "Battlestar Galactica" history is constantly repeating itself. It is the only way life will remain fresh enough to keep one's interest in living. There is no prove that this already has happened but there is also no prove that it has not happened too.

Re:How many times can you die? (1)

localman (111171) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624451)

> The religious answer is generally that there is some essential component of you (i.e. a soul) that persists after death

It's true. It's the same place the data in your RAM goes when you power down.

Re:How many times can you die? (2)

Kjella (173770) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624791)

It's true. It's the same place the data in your RAM goes when you power down.

I didn't know the afterlife was at NSA headquarters, but hey their porn collection should be good...

Re:Awesome Marketing (1)

Em Adespoton (792954) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624115)

Care to explain immortality after death to me? Just how does that work? I die, yet I'm immortal?

You're right; immortal is a misnomer. Maybe multimortal? But this could already be claimed by reincarnationalists.... demortalized?

Didn't we mock this yesterday already? (1)

OzPeter (195038) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623425)

And who the hell is this Roblimo guy, and why does get such special treatment?

Re:Didn't we mock this yesterday already? (1)

Desler (1608317) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623479)

He's the Dice.com guy in charge of Slashvertisement videos.

Re:Didn't we mock this yesterday already? (1)

TWiTfan (2887093) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623485)

He was one of the Dice hucksters brought in after Taco left.

Re:Didn't we mock this yesterday already? (2)

i kan reed (749298) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623553)

No, he's the ex-editor-in-chief, predating dice by a long time. But all he ever posts is shilling for things. It's really weird.

Re:Didn't we mock this yesterday already? (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623897)

. . . and I always thought he was CowboyNeal . . .

Re:Didn't we mock this yesterday already? (1)

Em Adespoton (792954) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624145)

whoosh ;)

Re:Didn't we mock this yesterday already? (1)

Roblimo (357) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624279)

I did not make this video nor did I choose its subject matter. All I did was edit it & write the intro paragraph. Some may have noticed that the Cryonics Institute is a non-profit, and may realize that we do *not* take money to make videos unless said videos are clearly marked "advertisement" or "sponsored content" or something along those lines. Like these: http://tv.slashdot.org/sponsored/ [slashdot.org] See? A "sponsored video" section.

And yes, for those who don't know, I was the editor in chief of the company that owned Slashdot for many years, and -- my low 3-digit UID hints at this -- I was reading and posting on Slashdot before it was corporatized, and did my best for a long time to (sigh) keep the marketing types from messing the site up.

I retired in 2008. Now I collect SSI (I had several massive heart attacks) and work part-time doing Slashdot video work, plus I write a weekly column called Cheap Computing for TechTarget -- http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/cheap-computing/ [techtarget.com] -- and occasional blog posts for AllLEDLighting.com -- http://www.allledlighting.com/ [allledlighting.com] --and other specialized, tech-oriented websites.

If you want to blame me for... well, for anything... no problem. I can handle it. I'm not in a management position, so saying bad things to or about me won't change anything. In fact, it's possible that I agree with many of your complaints but don't have the power to do anything about them.

And that said, now it's time for a gin and tonic here on Florida's West coast. :)

Cheers!

- Robin 'Roblimo' Miller
Bradenton Florida USA

       

Re:Didn't we mock this yesterday already? (1)

OzPeter (195038) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624419)

If you want to blame me for... well, for anything... no problem. I can handle it. I'm not in a management position, so saying bad things to or about me won't change anything. In fact, it's possible that I agree with many of your complaints but don't have the power to do anything about them.

Wow man .. it's not everyday that I get to say **woosh** to someone with a 3 digit ID!

They file a Environmental Impact Statement? (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623499)

How much carbon they going to add to the air generating the power to keep those carbon recycling units frozen? What happens if they all thaw at the same time? Checked to see if it is a new pyramid scheme?

Do you want to live forever? (1, Funny)

dkleinsc (563838) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623519)

I sure don't: After a couple of centuries, I'd get bored, and I don't really feel like going around insulting the universe [hhgproject.org] .

Re:Do you want to live forever? (2)

Pentium100 (1240090) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623609)

Well, maybe not forever, but at least for a couple thousand years, that would be nice. I also would like the option of killing myself in an event that I consider my current circumstances to be worse than death. Though complete immortality (like Captain Jack from Doctor Who) would still be preferable to death.

Re:Do you want to live forever? (2)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623683)

Well, maybe not forever, but at least for a couple thousand years, that would be nice. I also would like the option of killing myself in an event that I consider my current circumstances to be worse than death. Though complete immortality (like Captain Jack from Doctor Who) would still be preferable to death.

That's something I've never understood about people; while I understand lacking a desire to end your own life early, what's so terrifying about the inevitable conclusion that is death?

complete immortality (like Captain Jack from Doctor Who) would still be preferable to death.

That's easy enough to say for someone who hasn't had to deal with 10 billion years of other lifeforms and their bullshit.

Re:Do you want to live forever? (2)

Pentium100 (1240090) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623729)

what's so terrifying about the inevitable conclusion that is death?

I guess one part of it is instinct of self preservation.
And the other part is that I just don't like changes, much less permanent ones, so yea...

That's easy enough to say for someone who hasn't had to deal with 10 billion years of other lifeforms and their bullshit.

May be, but I would rather like to make my own mind about it after I live 10G years :)

Re:Do you want to live forever? (1)

mysidia (191772) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624687)

That's easy enough to say for someone who hasn't had to deal with 10 billion years of other lifeforms and their bullshit.

I don't care about that shit. I'd just ignore it all and play video games for a few eternities, after cashing in the dollars in interest and stock dividends earned over my first 200 years of immortality.

What I wouldn't want to do is live forever but still age, live forever as an old person, or have the risk of being injured in pain, hungry, trapped, or disabled and still live forever -- but in some horrible predicament; or be a person that has to put up with the ailments of old age or sickness.

I would rather be an immortal 6 or 7 year old girl who is uninjurable, invincible and can never feel pain or discomfort, than live forever as a 60, 70, or 80 year old, who society allows to do about whatever they want.

In other words: cryonics on old people is insane; unless we can stop aging. It makes more sense for the young instead, heh....

Re:Do you want to live forever? (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623887)

I personally wouldn't mind having my head in a bottle, Futurama style.

Just place my jar between Spock and Nixon, thanks.

Re:Do you want to live forever? (1)

mysidia (191772) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624609)

I sure don't: After a couple of centuries, I'd get bored, and I don't really feel like going around insulting the universe

I do want to exist and be sentient and mindful forever, and religion promises me that I will.

Do we really need technology to achieve what God has already promised us?

Re:Do you want to live forever? (1)

Kjella (173770) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624763)

Then you go to Switzerland, why let your body decide that instead of your mind?

21% of people receiving assisted dying in Dignitas do not have a terminal or progressive illness, but rather "weariness of life".

Re:Do you want to live forever? (1)

phantomfive (622387) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624969)

Pretty sure I can think of things to do to feel millenia at least. I would figure out fluid dynamics, work on NP-P, AI. I would definitely spend some years building pianos by hand, just for the fun of it.

Besides, it's not like people are very original in what they do. Most spend day after day in the same routine, watching TV. Same old stories in different dressing. If you don't get bored with that in decades, you're probably not going to get bored with it in centuries.

Unabashed Surfer Receiving Food Stamps (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623521)

http://nation.foxnews.com/2013/08/12/watch-unabashed-surfer-receiving-food-stamps-buy-sushi-and-avoid-work

  It was during an investigation into the record number of food stamp recipients that Fox News’ John Roberts met Jason Greenslate, a surfer and rocker who is living the self-described “rat life” in California.

The 29-year-old signed up for SNAP and receives $200 dollars a month in taxpayer money for food. He put it simply, “I don’t got a paycheck coming in, so I qualify.”

All he has to do is provide his birth certificate and Social Security card and fill out a form once a year.

In 1996, if you were an able adult with no family, you would only qualify for food stamps for three months every three years. President Obama wiped away those restrictions when he signed the 2009 stimulus bill. In 2010, the president used his regulatory powers to extend the suspension of the welfare-to-work requirements.

Greenslate is trained to be a recording engineer, but he told Roberts he has no paycheck because holding down a steady job isn’t for him.

So, it was off to the gourmet section of the grocery store, as Greenslate purchased sushi and lobster with his EBT card. “All paid for by our wonderful tax dollars,” he said, telling Roberts that’s what he typically buys.

“This is the way I want to live and I don’t really see anything changing,” Greenslate said. “It’s free food; it’s awesome.”

Re:Unabashed Surfer Receiving Food Stamps (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623787)

Sounds good.

Do you want to hire a 29-year old boy who has never held down an actual job and whose only post-secondary education is as a "recording engineer"?

Because I wouldn't pay him minimum wage to shovel cowshit.

So either we as a society will need to pay him $200 per month so he doesn't starve (which is less than minimum wage, and he'll stay out of the way so actual work can get done) or we need to put him in a camp or something. Which would probably be more expensive by the time you finished all the paperwork.

"I don't want to achieve immortality... (4, Funny)

dargaud (518470) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623531)

...through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying" - Woody Allen

Editors, stop it with this nonsense!! (0)

Sowelu (713889) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623535)

The first video was loudly derided by the entire comments section and you post another one? The whole premise of cryogenics is ludicrous anyway. If this is the stuff that makes it to the front page, Slashdot is nosediving fast.

Re:Editors, stop it with this nonsense!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623591)

From an MBA's point of view, they already spent the money to make the videos and people coming to post snarky comments are additional page views for ads, so might as well post it with nothing to lose.

Re:Editors, stop it with this nonsense!! (1)

Sowelu (713889) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623671)

Huh, they ARE Slashdot-made. Things are worse than I thought. If the new owners' thought process was seriously "what geeky subject should we make some videos about, oh I know, cryogenics, everyone loves that"... well, things are a lot worse than I thought.

Personally I turned off ads in the last couple weeks because they started getting really intrusive. They'd been fine for years, but not anymore.

Re:Editors, stop it with this nonsense!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623659)

Uh, no it wasn't. It was derided by a nontrivial number of people in the comments section, but certainly not "the entire comments section." I should know, since I was one of the people defending the practice (and I will continue to defend it).

Re:Editors, stop it with this nonsense!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623751)

So what exactly is your position at the Cryonics Institure?

Re:Editors, stop it with this nonsense!! (1)

Em Adespoton (792954) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624323)

Not to mention the comments section had the standard trolls and offtopic comments, which weren't deriding anything. Of course, it could be argued that these are bots, not people....

Oh, and I actually added some non-derisive comments; but really -- anyone cryogenically stored isn't likely to be resuscitated in the way they expect. They may be a great archaeological study some day, assuming the freezers don't break down first (unlikely).

I just had another thought: what happens to your estate when you become a popsicle? I presume that since you died, it passes on via your executor. This means that when you come back, you are a legal non-entity, and basically belong to the Cryonics Institute... I sense a SciFi movie plot developing here.... and zombies.

Re:Editors, stop it with this nonsense!! (1)

Valdrax (32670) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623849)

The whole premise of cryogenics is ludicrous anyway.

How so? The basic premise of preserving the brain for later medical advances is sound; it's the implementation details and social impacts that make it difficult.

The first video was loudly derided by the entire comments section and you post another one?

It's not generally a credible way to start a discussion by telling the reader to assume that everyone agrees with you; the briefest of glances at the comment section reveals many equally highly moderated posts by people who do not. Most of the quickly posted, top level responses were in this category, but in most articles that's where you just find the people who didn't think about it too much before getting in their word. (Not that I'm immune to that one, I'll admit.)

Re:Editors, stop it with this nonsense!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623933)

It's ludicrous in that the entire premise is built upon magical medical advancements, the fact that nothing will ever go wrong in the future with respect to the storage center, and the fact that anyone in the future, assuming we don't go extinct before the magical medical advancements even come, would even want to thaw all the meatsicles out.

Re:Editors, stop it with this nonsense!! (1)

Valdrax (32670) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624537)

Medical advancements in our own lifetimes, much less our grandparents' and great-grandparents' have been just short of miraculous already.

Just look at how gunshot fatalities have been decreasing over the past couple of decades despite the fact that the gunshot attack rate has gone up by half. 25 years ago, all we could do for a heart attack victim was to give them something for the pain and some lidocane, and now with advances in clot removers and stints, we've dropped heart attack fatalities by 40%. The stuff we can do with genomics, stems cells, and personalized medicine were once the things of science fiction. HIV is now an expensive nuisance rather than the killer of a whole subculture. We have surgical robots that allow us to go in through little holes rather than than slice a person open like a turkey. We've gone from EEG to fMRI, and we're pushing towards resolving the brain to the neuron level.

We have even more impressive tech coming down the pipeline. The human connectome project, studies into the human microbiome, cancer screening by saliva or smell, cloning and 3d printing of replacement organs, spinal nerve regrowth agents, etc. At least two of those are directly relevant to future restoration: mapping the brain and reconstructing tissues. It may be quite a while before we can construct a new brain to order (if it is ever possible), but I don't want to outright call it impossible based on the myopic lens of what is possible today.

As for the other two problems, the latter is the major sociological issue I mentioned, but I'm sure someone will want to reanimate people at least as a curiosity. And if something goes wrong with the storage center, then you're no worse off than you were without it (i.e, you're still dead, and you couldn't take the money with you anyway).

Re:Editors, stop it with this nonsense!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44624619)

Medical advancements in our own lifetimes, much less our grandparents' and great-grandparents' have been just short of miraculous already.

Miraculous, maybe, but not the magic which cryonics requires.

Just look at how gunshot fatalities have been decreasing over the past couple of decades despite the fact that the gunshot attack rate has gone up by half.

And that is analogous to bringing a hundreds of years old dead person with extensive cell damage back to life, how exactly?

Re:Editors, stop it with this nonsense!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623909)

The whole premise of anything is ludicrous if you put it that way.
Why research new medicine, what is the point, we are going to die, may as well get it over with. Right?

Big deal if someone wants to waste money on wanting to possibly get revived.
There are retards happily poisoning their bodies with all kinds of drugs, smoking, drinking and shit food and you are crying at THIS?
Not to mention they waste more money on that shit in a lifetime, cost medical services billions. Considerably more than whatever stupid high price is probably on this still.

I'd rather waste money getting my head chopped off after death than even sit in the same room of one of the mentioned diseases above.

Re:Editors, stop it with this nonsense!! (1)

Sowelu (713889) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623973)

Okay, let me rephrase. The whole concept of paying for modern-day cryogenics is ludicrous. I'm all for research into all fields; who knows, it might become usable someday, and that would be swell. But the lack of functionality of current cryogenics is so...total. You might as well pay someone to launch your corpse into space with a promise that magical aliens will recover it and cure you.

The Cryonics Institure (1)

lazarus (2879) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623605)

Can we please at least spell check the title? Thanks.

Re:The Cryonics Institure (1)

Roadmaster (96317) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623747)

I know it's a strange word but it's spelled correctly: Cryonics (from Greek kryos- meaning icy cold). :P

Re:The Cryonics Institure (1)

Sowelu (713889) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623885)

Institure.

Re:The Cryonics Institure (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623957)

Yes, but Institure is wrong.

Re:The Cryonics Institure (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44624625)

Nonsense, it is a perfectly cromulant word.

Re:The Cryonics Institure (1)

MiniMike (234881) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624349)

No, it's phonetically correct. That's what the word 'Institute' sounds like when you're very, very cold...

Re:The Cryonics Institure (1)

Em Adespoton (792954) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624357)

I always thought some of the slashdot editors needed to be instituranalized....

Again?! (2)

bryanandaimee (2454338) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623621)

I thought this subject was dead yesterday when the first story was published. How is it still viable? Why is it still kicking? Aren't we just beating a dead horse at this point? Why oh why won't it die!?

It's no more an "institure" than it is an... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623645)

It's no more an "institure" than it is an actual "institute".

Flogging a dead corpse (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623723)

Entropy always wins in the end folks

Slashvertising (1)

kenj0418 (230916) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623767)

I tried clicking that "Disable advertising" checkbox, but this story keeps coming up.

Re:Slashvertising (1)

Desler (1608317) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623829)

These are the special, unblockable roblimo advertisements. Sort of like how samzenpus posts Idle shit outside of Idle to get around the section block.

Sounds (1)

Twinbee (767046) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623789)

What a strange musical sound to have at the beginning and end. The end one sounds like it comes from the pits of hell.

Absolute nonsense (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623803)

Slashdot is run by some fairly evil people.

Slashdot "first run" settings (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44623845)

This place is starting to remind me of Microsoft forums where every other post is an exact duplicate.

Future Babble (1)

CPIMatt (206195) | 1 year,26 days | (#44623961)

"The course of human history is strongly influenced by the growth of human knowledge. [But it is impossible to] predict by rational or scientific methods, the future growth of our scientific knowledge [because doing so would require us to know that future knowledge, and, if we did, it would be present knowledge, not future knowledge.] We cannot therefore predict the future course of human history." - Karl Popper paraphrased from the book Future Babble by Dan Gardner

This is why Cryonics is currently a waste of money and resources.

-Matt

Freeze Roblimo now before he posts part 3! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44624167)

Just in case any of this shit actually works add a note so that the future people don't wake him up.

I am already immortal (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44624197)

No matter what "this is", everything that "is" will always be.

Nothing lasts but nothing is lost.

Everything is a part of everything else.

Connected as one.

Enjoy.

Cannot recover neurological state .. (1)

dgharmon (2564621) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624353)

"Today's interviewee is Cryonics Institute (CI) Director Andy Zawacki, who takes Slashdot's Robert Rozeboom into the facility where they keep the tanks with frozen people in them"

How are they going to recover the brain to the same neurological state it was in when the patient was unfrozen. Regardless of any future scientific advances, information lost cannot be restored.

Re:Cannot recover neurological state .. (1)

OzPeter (195038) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624425)

information lost cannot be restored.

Enhance!

Re:Cannot recover neurological state .. (1)

Soluzar (1957050) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624569)

It would make for an interesting outcome if you assume that people who are revived in the future would be vastly different than they were before their cryopreservation.

Maybe they retain a tiny fragment of their life memories, but for the most part it's like another person... a healthy person, but not the person who was preserved.

The "Singularity" (1)

Tetetrasaurus (1859006) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624535)

...is nothing more than the complete insanity and utter humility the most well-positioned (interpreted broadly) people must eventually go through in order to come to the new way of thinking lots of others are already exploring.

It's only a singularity for you personally because your preferred way of thinking has no stable projection into the future past a certain timepoint. It's a lot about acceptance; or your lack thereof. A rediagonalization of our personal and collective sense of self.

It's scary, but real heroic change always is.

Really Cool (1)

k31bang (672440) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624681)

Pun intended and prefered. If I had the money, this would be my interment option. All the techno mumble jumble is too good to pass up. Plus liquid nitrogen is awesome!

Lies, more advertising lies (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,26 days | (#44624805)

Immortality?
Until the heat death of the universe?
Call me skeptical.

Alos, suppport the SENS and Mprize projects (1)

nerd1024 (1337727) | 1 year,26 days | (#44624813)

Supporting the SENS project by gerontologist Aubrey de Gray and also the Mprize projects, both scientific research charities (tax deductible in the US and the UK), because we have a vast world of biologists, geneticists, mathematicians, physicists, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, chemists, computer scientists, inventors, thinkers, young people at universities, etc, that could ALL be employed to work towards developing all the sciences of reversing/fixing aging through biotech and nanotechnologies, both current and future. The source of all this funding should be by REDUCING the worlds militaries, their budgets, their R&D to make new bombs and weapons, (not DARPA's biotech/nano-tech fixing soldiers research), but just the ICBM, Bombs. current wars, reducing the amount of ships, missiles allowed, standing armies.....after all, these war machines will/may get you in the future, the robotic war machines may get you or someone you know (if you live long enough)...Regan's star wars program ate up close to 1 trillion (1000 billion) in R&D funding, most honest scientists viewed it as a make work welfare project for the defense contractors....Aubrey de Grey estimates that given 1 billion dollars. spent over a 10 year period could fix most of the scientific problems of aging.....I say we spend 100 times that amount to get things done in just a few years....Einstein estimated that the crash program to make the bomb during world war II took just a few years, but advanced that state of nuclear bomb physics and nuclear power by what would have taken 40 years in peacetime (he, like most of the physicists that developed the bomb, disapprove of the creation of such a new dangerous war tech, one reason is that, we are now surrounded by all the current "screaming monkey's (countries, people) that want to have, or have these destructive devices).
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