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Joining Lavabit Et Al, Groklaw Shuts Down Because of NSA Dragnet

Unknown Lamer posted about 8 months ago | from the freedom-of-the-press dept.

Censorship 986

An anonymous reader was the first to write with news that Groklaw is shutting down: "There is now no shield from forced exposure. Nothing in that parenthetical thought list is terrorism-related, but no one can feel protected enough from forced exposure any more to say anything the least bit like that to anyone in an email, particularly from the U.S. out or to the U.S. in, but really anywhere. You don't expect a stranger to read your private communications to a friend. And once you know they can, what is there to say? Constricted and distracted. That's it exactly. That's how I feel. So. There we are. The foundation of Groklaw is over. I can't do Groklaw without your input. I was never exaggerating about that when we won awards. It really was a collaborative effort, and there is now no private way, evidently, to collaborate." Why it's a big deal.

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986 comments

Where will this end? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616483)

America used to be a free country and now where are we?

It was a myth (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616491)

It was a myth, a good PR. The truth is probably the USA were never more, or less, democratic and free than most of western europe state. Just your run of the mill western democratic country. Not bad, but not the best either : just one among many good country to live in.

Re:It was a myth (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616547)

It was a myth, a good PR. The truth is probably the USA were never more, or less, democratic and free than most of western europe state. Just your run of the mill western democratic country. Not bad, but not the best either : just one among many good country to live in.

Not really good PR, just standard. Every other country has it too. If you live in France then you're told France is the best, if you live in the UK then you're told UK is the best... it sometimes seems that Americans buy into their own publicity a little too easily but I'm sure there are worse national traits than self-deception.

Re:It was a myth (5, Interesting)

somersault (912633) | about 8 months ago | (#44616731)

The only people I ever see acting like their country is "the best" overall are Americans. A country can be "best" in certain areas, but I don't really see any one country as being "the best" overall. I was brought up in Scotland, and I think I'll continue to live here because 1) It's pretty and temperate, 2) Australia has too many deadly creepy crawlies, 3) the US is too smug.

Re:It was a myth (3, Insightful)

Chrisq (894406) | about 8 months ago | (#44616795)

The only people I ever see acting like their country is "the best" overall are Americans.

Maybe the Swiss, though admittedly this is from a short visit and knowing one family

Re:It was a myth (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616659)

As someone from Western Europe I've got to say that you're so far up a gum tree you can see the curvature of the Earth. The kind of democracy espoused by the US was rare outside of the US and France for a long time after the country was founded.

Unfortunately democracy, the political system, is not in itself an assurance of good governance.

Re:It was a myth (1)

shentino (1139071) | about 8 months ago | (#44616849)

America is not a democracy.

Not when TLAs and corporations have the political process held hostage.

Re: It was a myth (4, Insightful)

sumdumass (711423) | about 8 months ago | (#44616723)

At one point in time the US was more free then other countries. This is because the size and scopr of the federal government has traditionally been constrained and limited for the most part. The cold war changed a lot of that ss well did the hippy movement of the 60's and the economic colapse in the 70's. Government expanded rapidly trying to "PROTECT" us from then communidt russians and the people started demanding more of the federal government which they were more then happy to address as long as it could increase the powet it held over the people.

This isn't party specific either. Even when a party runs against it as part of their platform, once they get power then make it worse but different.

Re:It was a myth (1)

Chrisq (894406) | about 8 months ago | (#44616773)

It was a myth, a good PR. The truth is probably the USA were never more, or less, democratic and free than most of western europe state. Just your run of the mill western democratic country. Not bad, but not the best either : just one among many good country to live in.

At the time of the American revolution they really were among the best; only France could compare. Its a long time ago now though.

Re:Where will this end? (5, Insightful)

SirGarlon (845873) | about 8 months ago | (#44616533)

America used to be a free country and now where are we?

At a defining crossroads. My fellow Americans, now is the worst possible moment to wimp out.

Re:Where will this end? (0)

markus_baertschi (259069) | about 8 months ago | (#44616695)

And I feel Groklaw is wimping out just now.

Re:Where will this end? (4, Insightful)

SirGarlon (845873) | about 8 months ago | (#44616753)

I feel PJ is making an important statement, more convincing than anything I've seen yet.

Re:Where will this end? (3, Informative)

alexgieg (948359) | about 8 months ago | (#44616823)

I feel PJ is making an important statement, more convincing than anything I've seen yet.

I don't find it convincing, particularly this bit: "there is now no private way, evidently, to collaborate". Of course there is. Setup a forum on Tor, Freenet or some other darknet and collaborate there, then publish the results on the open web. Groklaw has a very technical demographics, almost anyone interested will know how to participate.

Re:Where will this end? (3, Interesting)

thoth (7907) | about 8 months ago | (#44616785)

At a defining crossroads. My fellow Americans, now is the worst possible moment to wimp out.

But isn't that what all these sites that are shutting down are doing - wimping out?
I can understand Lavabit, but these others are just folding due to what exactly, uneasy feelings?

Re:Where will this end? (1, Interesting)

Askmum (1038780) | about 8 months ago | (#44616611)

I'm sorry, I can not believe this. This is a prank. This must be. How can you be so spineless to give in to these people? This is the day you have to fight them! And you don't do that by going off the grid.

Pj, you gutless coward! Come back!

Re:Where will this end? (5, Insightful)

dmbasso (1052166) | about 8 months ago | (#44616705)

Actually shutting down is fighting. It delivers a stronger message than just words.

Re:Where will this end? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616759)

Especially if that message is "You Win."

Re:Where will this end? (1)

Chrisq (894406) | about 8 months ago | (#44616807)

Actually shutting down is fighting. It delivers a stronger message than just words.

I don't doubt it, but weighing up one very strong message now against continued exposure of legal shenanigans by state and companies I am not sure it is the best thing.

Re:Where will this end? (5, Insightful)

BrokenHalo (565198) | about 8 months ago | (#44616775)

Pj, you gutless coward! Come back!

Given that PJ has been running Groklaw with almost no intermissions for just over 10 years, it's probably not fair to describe her as a gutless coward. If you can come up with a form of email encryption that you can guarantee won't be cracked within the next 5 years, then good luck with changing her mind about this decision.

If she were me, I would just be plain tired. There's only so much a committee of one can do.

Re:Where will this end? (5, Insightful)

Noryungi (70322) | about 8 months ago | (#44616777)

Pj, you gutless coward! Come back!

Two points:

1) It's HER site. If she does not want to continue, for whatever reason, it's HER choice. Disagree with her? Create your own Groklaw.
2) Especially given the Lavabit precedent, I can understand her decision.

Remember: you may be secretly ordered to spy on your own users, and secretly prevented to even mention this to anyone - including your own lawyers - and threatened with criminal prosecution if you decide to do right thing and shut everything down. Big Brother wants to be able to watch you. All the time.

As for being a ''gutless coward'' (your words, not mine), try running a high-traffic, high-visibility web site for a while, with all the attendant legal problems and shenanigans (see above), and we will talk about it for while, mmmmmkay?

Re:Where will this end? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616617)

It won't. Not until there is a war. And nobody wants a war.
So I guess the only thing to say is this: welcome to the new world.

I think the funnier thing is the gun nuts who were always going crazy about how they will defend themselves from a tyrannic Britain now face a much worse enemy and sit around doing fuck all because they know they lost already.
Yeah, you try shoot a tank with your peashooter. Good luck with that, son. Enjoy being shot with a drone in advance.

Cowards, spies, psychos and delusions, that is all America is now. No freedom here, Stranger.

Re:Where will this end? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616697)

"Yeah, you try shoot a tank with your peashooter"

Peashooter indeed. Well I ain't lobbing peas, I don't know about you.

"Good luck with that, son."

Maybe yes maybe no. However, if these 'peashooters' are so harmless, why does the state want to restrict them so much?

Don't buy into the hype son.

Re:Where will this end? (2)

James Durie (1426) | about 8 months ago | (#44616707)

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever. "

Grow a fucking spine (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616721)

America used to be a free country and now where are we?

Well no one else is game to say it so I fucking well will. PJ's rant about having her apartment broken into and having some stranger touch her nickers is just a shit of a cop-out. She may have moved out of that apartment and tossed out thoses undies but she didn't stop trying to find somewhere to live and go pantiless because some dirtbag broke in. Yet she feels perfectly justified in shutting down Groklaw. Colour it any way you like - she just gave up and sent the message that it's okay to do that. FUCK THAT. They win because you let them win. Email doesn't work, try something else, perhaps TOR. TOR shut down move to something beyond that, and so on and so on. There's no excuse for giving up. It's not romantic. It's not a poetic and tragic end. It's just pathetic.

Re:Where will this end? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616801)

Oh come on, Americans are still free, just monitored. Being watched doesn't make you less free.

Re:Where will this end? (5, Interesting)

Thanshin (1188877) | about 8 months ago | (#44616831)

You are much more free than before. Because you know more.

What you see is a forward movement.

Did you expect the power to just surrender to a future where they don't matter anymore?

As you know more and more. As you recover what is rightly yours. As you take over the control of your own country. They will fight back. And they will bite and tear down your houses searching for traitors. And they will destroy you, and put you in jails, and kill many of you.

But you will prevail.

Because freedom only moves one way.

You're scared because you're the first ones. There's only darkness ahead. But you shouldn't be, because behind that darkness is the future that will look back and cheer at you as the freedom fighters of this century.

Success! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616489)

All these pesky troublemakers can't take the heat we sicked upon them and finally give up. We won. Rejoice.

Good riddance (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616493)

I would shed a tear for Groklaw if it hadn't censored its comments so outrageously over the years. Even the slightest deviation from the party line was called a "troll" and disappeared.

Re:Good riddance (5, Insightful)

RotateLeftByte (797477) | about 8 months ago | (#44616519)

you mean the ones who use 'Anonymous Coward' as their sig? (like you perhaps?)

I've disagreed with PJ over many things but I've always respected her argument and I've never been censored when I've put forward differing views to hers.

Her research into a topic is excellent and puts many lawyers to shame.

I for one will miss her and Groklaw.

Re:Good riddance (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616679)

The use of anonymous is handy for many of us whose employers have frowned on our participating in online forums. But certainly, anon is only slightly more anonymous than "RotateLeftByte." I'm not the person you responded to but I am a frequent user of anon and I find your comment pretty disrespectful.
 
I too, will miss PJ and Groklaw. I've participated in a number of discussions there, and always enjoyed reading it. I think she's gone a little over the top since Groklaw was all about the law and everything posted was pretty much public record.

Re: Good riddance (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616521)

I have never heard of Groklaw before now. But this particular statement is one of the most personal and intelligent post ive read on the current topic of #nsa #surveillance

Re: Good riddance (2, Insightful)

Noryungi (70322) | about 8 months ago | (#44616791)

And #slashdot is not #twitter, you moron.

Seriously, enough with the hashtags already. Learn how to type proper messages!

And. Get. Off. My. Lawn!! ;-)

Re:Good riddance (1)

hebertrich (472331) | about 8 months ago | (#44616637)

Never one comment i ever written was ever , and i know of noone that ever was censored. If you were post your writings here for us to judge if she was right. Maybe you're one of them assholes that can't write a phrase without insulting anyone ? Maybe you deserved it for being a ponpous ass and racist and made out of order comments that could get anyone in trouble with the law ? :D

Before blaming them , and by God did they ever do a fantastic job , give us proof . The balance of integrity and honor weighs highly in the Lady in a Red Dress's favour.

Suppression via Fear (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616495)

Welcome to 2013, the terrerists are still winning without having to lift a finger.

Re:Suppression via Fear (4, Insightful)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | about 8 months ago | (#44616841)

Welcome to 2013, the terrerists are still winning without having to lift a finger.

The terrorists won long ago and occupied the USA using outsourced forces, since their own numbers are so small. The terrorists surrogate army has outposts at every airport in the land reminding people constantly that their ability to travel freely is limited.

First you put a cloud on people's ability to travel.

Then you put a cloud on people's ability to speak.

Then...

The NSA is enacting political change through fear (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616845)

Doesn't that make them a terrorist organization worthy of detainment in gitmo?

Rule of law (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616503)

You'll find all the laws in the US related to privacy and surveillance there. Not that anyone seems to follow any laws that get in their way these days. Or if they find they need a law to make conduct lawful, they just write a new law or reinterpret an old one and keep on going. That's not the rule of law as I understood the term.

cry baby (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616505)

wah wah wah

Land of the free? Free what? Snooping? (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616507)

I never read Groklaw but from what I've seen others write about it, it's been a pretty important website in terms of keeping the truth 'out there'. And now it's closing because people now have concrete proof the land of the free is anything but.

South Park Stan Marsh has a perfect saying for situations like this: Dude that's pretty fucked up right there.

Re:Land of the free? Free what? Snooping? (5, Informative)

hebertrich (472331) | about 8 months ago | (#44616727)

It was THE most important legal website on the internet covering SCO , Apple/Samsung Microsoft/Novell etc etc
The level of analysis and documenta on the site made it a unique tool and place to get information on litigation between the tech giants.
This is where we followed the SCO owns Linux war against Novell et al . This is a terrible loss for all because the truth and documents was out there and we all participated and learned from it. It is a terrible loss for who are curious about their world and the workings of the legal system.
I am in shock. I went there and spent thousands of hours on the site. I learned and owe the Lady in a Red Dress one hell of a lot.
Thanks PJ . Forever in your debt.
Ric

hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616511)

So basically they Won.

Re:hmm (2)

hacker (14635) | about 8 months ago | (#44616605)

So basically they Won.

They don't win unless we've stopped fighting. And we're a long, long way from that.

Re:hmm (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616765)

So basically they Won.

They don't win unless we've stopped fighting. And we're a long, long way from that.

PJ just did exactly that. Stopped fighting. Disgraceful. Spineless. And contrary to everything she stood for. It's a fight to your last breath, not until it all gets too hard.

Re:hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616825)

When you fight you just improve their Bayesian filters.

The Fascists Have Won (5, Insightful)

some old guy (674482) | about 8 months ago | (#44616515)

Apparently our freely-elected Constitutional government has succeeded in creating a critical mass of fear in the US. Real investigative journalism, what little there actually was, is now dead. We are therefore left with only state-approved information exchange.

Time for me to get my passport renewed and learn a new language. Fuck this country. I can get a job anywhere.

Re:The Fascists Have Won (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616595)

Real investigative journalism died in the 2008 campaign. Obama could have been easily outed as a disciple of terrorist Bill Ayers and hate preacher Jeremiah Wright, but the mainstream media sat on its hands. Why? Because they were simpatico with Obama's left-wing views. Can't investigate someone we agree with! Journalism died not with a bang but with a whimper.

Re:The Fascists Have Won (5, Insightful)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | about 8 months ago | (#44616619)

anyone that thinks that Obama is "left wing" is an idiot.

Middle-left is a stretcher.

Re:The Fascists Have Won (4, Insightful)

schwit1 (797399) | about 8 months ago | (#44616689)

What is being done has nothing to do with left-wing or right-wing. It's about power and control.

Re:The Fascists Have Won (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616729)

You: Liberal=things I agree with. Conservative=things I disagree with.

This is all wrong. Obama is as left as they come, own it. This is what it looks like.

Re:The Fascists Have Won (5, Insightful)

some old guy (674482) | about 8 months ago | (#44616661)

There is a profound difference between superficially biased journalism and state-monitored corporate journalism. The former is mere human failing, the latter is despotism.

Nobody expects real journalism from the mainstream. It is the muzzling of independent journalism that ushers in our brave new world.

Re:The Fascists Have Won (5, Insightful)

prisoner-of-enigma (535770) | about 8 months ago | (#44616743)

Time for me to get my passport renewed and learn a new language. Fuck this country. I can get a job anywhere.

And precisely where are you going to go? Name me another country that has less restrictions on free speech, freedom of association, freedom of assembly, right to property, and so forth. Everywhere you look there are governments that have it written right in their version of the Constitution that they can detain you, take your stuff, monitor everything you do or say...the list goes on and on.

You can say "I'm gonna move somewhere where they can't spy on me and arrest me for saying unpopular thing about the government" but I challenge you to find anyplace on the planet where that's guaranteed anymore. The US was the last bastion of this. If it's fallen, you're SOL.

we are in real deep shit... (4, Insightful)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | about 8 months ago | (#44616525)

It sounds very melodramatic, but we really are heading towards the day when many of us are going to need to flee our own country. Those of us that have been free and open with out opinions, anyway.

Turnkey totalitarianism. (5, Insightful)

boorack (1345877) | about 8 months ago | (#44616559)

All components required to impose totalitarian regime were in place for some time. Now, our lovely, corporate-sponsored fascist and criminal government decided to turn the key.

Re:we are in real deep shit... (3, Interesting)

Sockatume (732728) | about 8 months ago | (#44616613)

How would fleeing the US help? Even the fig-leaf of privacy protection afforded to US citizens living at home is completely absent for those who live elsewhere, citizen or otherwise. As long as any component of the runs through the US, the US will continue to reap.

Re: we are in real deep shit... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616627)

But where is there to go?

perhaps some good... (1)

mschaffer (97223) | about 8 months ago | (#44616529)

Perhaps some good can come of this---harnessing the power of the authors of the constitution as they spin in their graves.

And (1, Insightful)

Zanadou (1043400) | about 8 months ago | (#44616537)

This is the way the world ends

This is the way the world ends

This is the way the world ends

Not with a bang but a whimper.

Notice (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616545)

slashdot isn't shutting down. What are the odds /. has never receive a National Security Letter?

I'm going wiht: pretty low.

Re:Notice (5, Interesting)

Noryungi (70322) | about 8 months ago | (#44616821)

But here is the horrible thing: even if /. has received a National Security Letter... They can't tell you.

Think about this for just a second. They. Cannot. Tell. You.

Give Up (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616573)

This is just the biggest bunch of BS. Email has never been secure or private, so why is everyone pretending that it is? The only thing Groklaw has to fear is not having a lame excuse for giving up, but now that they have one...

Re:Give Up (5, Insightful)

Sockatume (732728) | about 8 months ago | (#44616583)

Streets aren't secure or private, but if you saw the Gestapo positioned on every street corner you might suddenly feel differently about them.

Re:Give Up (1)

Rageaholic (728509) | about 8 months ago | (#44616651)

You mean like if agents of the state were positioned in transport hubs demanding to see your papers? [bbc.co.uk]

Re:Give Up (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 8 months ago | (#44616711)

Actually, no, that's not really a comparable situation. Thematically linked, but you don't need a bunch of overt monitors planted everywhere to swoop down and harass a single, known individual, so the latter doesn't have the pervasive sense of threat of the former.

Welcome to traffic analysis (4, Insightful)

davecb (6526) | about 8 months ago | (#44616717)

The hard part of finding people to prosecute is *finding* candidates. Once you know who one person is, you can do traffic analysis and find all their friends. See, for example http://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-find-paul-revere/ [kieranhealy.org]

If someone is reading all our (insecure) emails to and from a known "person of interest", such as, for example, a well-known web site, then they can build the kind of interconnection matrix that will lead them to the supporters and fellow-travellers of that website.

Were I a copyright maximalist, I would regard groklaw as a criminal conspiracy, and the centre of a matrix of criminals and fellow-travellers. Based on that, I'd then petition the communications security establishment for a (secret) order allowing me to identify the conspirators and their fellow-travellers for (equally secret) investigation, leading to either prosecution or private revenge...

--dave

what a bomb ! (1)

hebertrich (472331) | about 8 months ago | (#44616579)

Holy shit ! .. What a totally unexpected ending.
This is terrible. No words . I been following them since day 1 .. this is truly a shock and a terrible loss.

Move to I2P (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616581)

He should move his site to an encrypted network like I2P: https://geti2p.net/
Or make it a hidden Tor service.

Re:Move to I2P (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616643)

She, PJ is a she.

Re:Move to I2P (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616737)

As I'm sure you've found out, or have been told by others... Tor is not meant for privacy, it's meant for anonymity.

That being said, many of the Tor exit nodes are run by three-letter government agencies.

'Condone' is a threat (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616593)

Here in the UK, the hpme office defended the police use of 'terror' laws against Greenwalds boyfriend, claiming it is to catch terrorists and critics should watch what they are 'condoning'.
'Condoning' is a legal word, 'condoning terrorism' is a crime, the Home Office is sending out a veiled threat with that word.

Groklaw you will be missed (4, Interesting)

spacepimp (664856) | about 8 months ago | (#44616625)

This is unprecedented that companies are folding in response to the abuses of the US government. It is not something to ignore and yet we still have anonymous cowards humping the legs of slashdot making sophomoric marginal comments. Keep up the good work AC. You truly are the lowest common denominator.

Re:Groklaw you will be missed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616681)

Keep up the good work AC. You truly are the lowest common denominator.

Sorry, we are more than 1.

First they came for Lavabit... (5, Insightful)

Vermonter (2683811) | about 8 months ago | (#44616629)

And I said nothing, because I am not a Lavabit user. Then they came for Groklaw, and I said nothing, because I don't visit Groklaw. Then they came for Slashdot, and I had one less platform to voice my outrage...

Re:First they came for Lavabit... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616739)

Try this: https://slashdot.org [slashdot.org] . See what happened?

They've always had Slashdot.

Re:First they came for Lavabit... (2)

Threni (635302) | about 8 months ago | (#44616769)

There's always Kuro5hin.

Just kidding. Nobody goes there anymore. I mean Reddit.

And we continue downhill... Farewell Groklaw... (3, Insightful)

killfixx (148785) | about 8 months ago | (#44616639)

Groklaw has been an excellent source for legal information. PJ has always done an excellent job.

This is another marker on that downhill race to revolution. I just hope it's not as bloody as the last one.

Thank you, Groklaw... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616655)

...for your perceptive and erudite presentations of important legal intricacies.
How come the security services seem to be listening to everyone and everything except common sense?
And in these times, is it really cowardly to post this anonymously?

Obama's government destroying American (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616663)

Obamagedon at work.

too much drama... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616671)

Groklaw was in the phase of closing a couple of years now - this "heroic exodus" claiming that trendy "i am a freedom fighter" is just too much drama for something no so dramatic...

Translation: Groklaw has been gagged (5, Insightful)

pipedwho (1174327) | about 8 months ago | (#44616677)

What this translates to isn't that Groklaw doesn't like what's happening to others and is shutting down out of protest.

It is that it has been served with a demand for information/wire-tapping along with an attached gag order, courtesy of the 'Star Chamber'. The only 'legally' safe way for organisations to tell people that something like this has happened is to shut down their operations.

So, translation of Groklaw's announcement: the NSA/FBI/TLA have copied our hard drives and installed a data logger in our data centre. Oh yeah, and we're not allowed to talk about it.

Re:Translation: Groklaw has been gagged (2)

Sockatume (732728) | about 8 months ago | (#44616805)

I think someone should point out that there's no evidence that it's the case, and it seems unlikely given the current history of the issue. It'd be reassuring to think that this is the result of some specific hostile action against Groklaw, but I'm afraid that such acts are not necessary to get this sort of response.

Re:Translation: Groklaw has been gagged (4, Insightful)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about 8 months ago | (#44616839)

It is that it has been served with a demand for information/wire-tapping along with an attached gag order, courtesy of the 'Star Chamber'.

Do the gag also orders also order you to write 2000+ words of false information on why you're shutting down? Because if you're trying to hint that you're not allowed to talk about the reasons, inventing valid but false reasons would seem to be the wrong way to go about it.

PGP? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616701)

If technocrats at Groklaw cannot use PGP than who is PGP for?

GNUpg To The Help (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616713)

..brought to you by the government. The German government in this case.

We all should be less "Chicken little" and use strong crypto and TOR.

In addition to that, flame the government hills, who make people think that "crypto is worthless, they can break anything".

I am a CS graduate and my assessment is they can't break properly done, state-of-the-art crypto. Otherwise they would not have to armtwist the corporations into adding intercept backdoors. And if they can actually break GNUpg, they will definitely not waste that secret for the "benefit" of some petty legal crapola. It will remain a closely guarded secret that is actually used for actual military purposes. If they ever used the "GNUpg break capability" for something else, three days later we (the internet engineering community) would have added 100 more ciphers and allow for those ciphers to be concatenated and randomly chosen as a function of cipher.

Again, use ciphers and TOR (or other mixnets) and stop being Chicken Little. Grow some pointy fur like a hedgehog. I never saw a dog biting a hedgehog.

Blah, blah, blah over-reaction (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616745)

This is the functional equivalent of someone getting a double mastectomy because Angelina Jolie did.

I swear you remind me of a dear young woman named Rose who posted on her blog how she had nightmares she was going to be detained and raped with a nightstick by the TSA on orders of Bush and that Bush was going to declare marshal law and refuse to leave office after 8 years. And, your remind me of all the wingnuts saying Obama is going to do the same thing. Stop being cowardly, overly-dramatic dicks.

Re:Blah, blah, blah over-reaction (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616817)

It's "Martial" law you stupid fucking prepper hick.

what a shame (1)

CmdrGravy (645153) | about 8 months ago | (#44616767)

I've followed Groklaw since the beginning, it was a brilliant site because of the dedication, insight and attention to detail brought to it by PJ and it is, needless to say, a tragedy that she is forced to take this action by the behaviour of the Government.

It's really a double tragedy because it's people like her whom we need more than ever right now. The US and other Governments are highly unlikely simply to stop this behaviour on their own, they will only do so if forced to do so by us, their citizens, and someone with the qualities and platform which PJ has could play a useful part in that ( not I think she should be forced to do this against her will and absolutely not that I'd hold anything against her if she doesn't want to do that )

America is fucked ... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44616787)

Completely and utterly fucked. And they're dragging the rest of the world down to the worst level of pervasive state-security.

America has become everything they were against 30 years ago -- scared sheep with the government looking over your shoulder at everything you do.

You have no moral legitimacy, and you are no longer worthy of respect.

If stuff like this is happening, the US is going to devolve into a sad parody of herself. Because people are stopping believing even the illusion freedom. And in the process, you are making this happen in every other country.

Fuck you guys.

wtf groklaw (4, Insightful)

shentino (1139071) | about 8 months ago | (#44616833)

Groklaw is one of the watchers watching the watchers!

Their articles expose the corporate corruption and report on the legal shenanigans by the likes of the RIAA, Apple, Microsoft, SCO, Sony, and even the federal government itself.

We need Groklaw now more than ever.

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