Interview with Tom Sloper, Veteran Game Designer 94
Giles writes: "Listen to veteran game designer and producer Tom Sloper talk about what it was like to make games for the Vectrex, discuss the addictiveness of current MMORPGS and some game development disaster stories. And why is the voice acting in games so bad, anyway? An interesting inside look at the game industry from an old-timer."
just try it here (Score:1)
And yes, I've been involved in the QA area of gaming for a few years now and of the projects I've been part of (two of which were hugely successful) all of them successfully installed and ran when the user first popped the cd into their machine. There were bugs here and there like any product but at least people were able to install and play the damned things and the bugs were usually patched by the time a significant number of customers actually ran into the problems (yes we had fast turnaround).
Okay, so I'm not involved in any MMORPGS (but have been part of other multi-player releases). But a game that has taken four years to reach the shelves and hasn't even been successfully used by the majority of customers after a week is astonishingly bad form. Would it have hurt to take another three months and work out the kinks? Or to open the beta up as wide as necessary to make sure the system will hold? What did they do, try to guage a 30,000 user load by running a 2,000 user beta?
I'll give them time. For something as massive as AO, you can't expect it to be perfect. I'm not saying it should be. I'm just saying that for four years of development and millions of dollars dropped for a useless product in the first week of release, it'd be nice if the more simple things (like registering your product or logging into the server) worked. If you can't rely on those simple functions, how in the world can anyone trust the more complex areas of the game?
Back to your smartass retail trade comment. Next time you're in the unied states, pick up a copy of a game. I don't know make it Sims or Diablo or whatever. Open the box. Take it home. Bring it back a day or two later. Try and convince the clerk or manager of the store to take it back. You'll have an easier time playing hide-the-donut with Margaret Thatcher.
juggling dozens of other projects at the same time (Score:1)
I don't even remember what the developer was angry about -- I was juggling dozens of projects at once, and this one fell down and, um, crack'd.
Maybe they were angry about you juggling dozens of projects, and not paying attention to any of them?
the U.S. developer was programming the game in Forth, had lost their artists, and was generally botching the game big time. I was not only producing the game, I was also soldering development systems, designing graphics, and juggling dozens of other projects at the same time.
Sounds like the classic case of an external producer failing to recognise how important they are to a successful project. A lot of producers have the attitude of "I'm here to police you and make sure you hit deadlines". An alternative, and very successful approach is "I'm the member of the team that is the firefighter and evangelist at the publisher and my job is to support you guys in making this game great." Its true that many developers take on a symmetric role to the external producer, i.e. "This guy's job is to shaft us, so we'll make his life difficult." Those developers could do well to look at their external producer as someone who's life they want to make easier, say by hitting a deadline on time, or by doing that marketing demo.
Re:more like this (Score:1)
Re:Not really but... - Digistar II (Score:1)
Leave me be!
PLA-NET-AARIUM
Just leave me alone...
here's a disaster story (Score:2)
They avoid the fact that whether they expected 10 or 100,000 users, a bug is a bug and not being able to register your cd key or log on isn't a scaling issue. It's a code issue from the get go, making me wonder if they EVER tested their live server before it was fully deployed.
They also contradict themselves by stating that the number of users is overwhelming and they are straining to accomodate everyone. Yet in their marketing for months they had been claiming they were going to become the most popular and most populated MMORPG in existance. They claim that the 40,000 users was more than double what they expected though but i doubt they could even support those 20,000 that they counted on.
I'm one of those who wasted by $65 on the game and am tired of sitting around waiting for it to be finished. Why didn't they just charge us the $65 four years ago and say "some day we'll have this cool game and you'll be able to play it.. for now, you can just pay us the money and we'll use it to write the program and debug it... kay?".
You can bet your ass Ford wouldn't get away with selling you the shell of a car for $30,000 and promising that in a few weeks or months, they'll get around to putting the engine and interior in it so you can actually use it.
Re:What about Sakura Taisen? (Score:1)
Pretty simple: the Japanese VA industry is light-years ahead of American. Disney's pretty much the only company in the US that takes the time to do truly good voice work. There are exceptions, and it's getting better, but "give a guy a bunch of words to read" is still norm in the US, whereas generally in Japan the VA's interact in a sort of "reader's theatre" setup.
Combine that with a relatively high-profile, high-budget game like Sakura Taisen, and you've got a winner.
Re:just try it here (Score:2)
Legally I don't think price enters into it. Would a $5 paperback missing a few pages be worth returning to the store? Maybe, if you really wanted to read those pages, or the store is on your way to someplace.
The book Bad Software had a pretty good description of how to return bad software. Unfortunately I think the UCITA may have made it obsolete, at least in places like VA that signed the dread thing into law. It had good advice on how to return things that had a shrinkwrap license, or things like DVDs or CDs to best buy where they have a policy of not allowing refunds, only exchanges on things like that.
It relies on UCC case law, and UCC regulations about things like the consumer having a short time to test the item. If you can't play a CD you can't test it...Same for software. If you return it right away (say the same day, or the day after) there pretty much isn't anything legal they can do (er, except the UCITA can or could change that). It's time consuming to find someone in Best Buy who will stand still while you quote law, but they do give in. For me, it ain't worth it for low cost items, unless they are just so bad that I can't stand the though of the makers getting any money for the item.
Re:voice acting doesn`t work ? (Score:2)
For some examples of this, and some good laughs,
listen to some out-takes from the script recording for Black and White:
http://main.bwgame.com/bwouttakesdownload.shtml
Re:here's a disaster story (Score:1)
yes, you should do more homework before lashing out usd30k than usd30.
yes, both ford and video game producers manufacture shoddy products and try to heist them on consumers, and wheedle their way out. one important difference to remember about 'suitability for purpose' and 'merchantable' is that if the product does not match up to these claims, you are entitled to your cash back, although obviously dodgier retailers and outfits will try to claim otherwise. Taking payment for (product) is a legally binding contract.
The main issue the original poster missed was that if the video game I buy is buggy and rotten, at least it won't spontaneously reverse into fast moving vehicles or blow up, killing me. So yes, it's fair*er* to rip people off with games than with cars, after a fashion. (I'm informed that on the detection of a critical flaw in a car, the manufacture asseses whether it's cheaper to pay out-of-court settlements and keep quiet, or recall and fix the vehicle; obviously less suffering the latter route, but costs more, and in the long run hurts the manufacturer/models image. I watched a documentary recently about Ford, where this is common practice, and has indeed happened in recent history.)
BTW, did you never notice that most game releases happen at christmas? This is done *deliberately* so that the games industry can flog their most rotten products to non-gamers looking for gifts for gamers; think granny buying a game for her grandson. I've seen flop games increase tenfold their original sale by a cynical christmas release.
Re:here's a disaster story (Score:1)
No. You Are Wrong. 80% of games sales *do* happen at xmas, but a lot of companies are very cynically dependant on the granny buys. There are (or have been) many second-rate me-toos released that are hugely dependant on buyers who don't know games but know it's called something like... oh... what's the name... uhh... oh, this one looks right, I'll buy that.
I have first hand experience of several dump projects, games that were so dire, but could be flogged at xmas.
And partly, yes, they do release games at christmas because people tend to buy them then. And they can also slip their turds in and do well for them by association.
It's not just games, every company see christmas as a fantastic shitfest, where they can hawk any old trash.
Re:just try it here (Score:1)
If a product is not 'fit for purpose' (and that can include the fact that the game you've bought is buggy) you have a right to a refund which overrides any statement in a shop that they will not refund your money.
Re:One you (and every one else here) missed: (Score:1)
Unknown voice: "Please God, don't do it, I -"
Korenchkin: "Glory to the Many. I am a voice in Their choir."
(shotgun report)
Unknown voice: "No, Jesus, no-"
(shotgun report)
Unknown voice: (screaming)
(shotgun report)
Unknown voice: (screaming stops suddenly)
(shotgun report)
(shotgun report)
(shotgun report)
Needless to say, the superb voice acting combined with the writing to send chills up my spin when I first heard this log. Superb game.
Interesting idea about the glasses. (Score:1)
walk around hallways and the computer superimposes images of monsters into your reality, basically turning your entire life into a game. I don't know if this would be addictive or annoying, but it would sure be cool.
I'd imagine the porn industry would find this product useful as well.
-Restil
El Cheapo System... (Score:2)
Use epoxy or superglue, and glue them onto small speakers (buy some at rat shack, or pull some out of old radios). You will need two speaker/mirror combos.
Now, the hard part: arrange the speakers at orthogonal 45 degree angles, such that one speaker deflects the beam horizontally, and the second speaker deflects that beam vertically (note, you may need a bigger mirror on the second speaker, to make up for deflection).
A third speaker could be rigged to act as a "shutter" deflector, that would deflect the final beam into a "black box", or cut it off somehow.
Hook these speakers up to the stereo channels of your sound card, and have fun!
Worldcom [worldcom.com] - Generation Duh!
What I wonder... (Score:2)
Ok, maybe what I have to say won't be new - but why isn't it exciting?
Have you noticed how many people read? I mean, bookstores aren't going down the tubes, most all of us read, many other individuals read - just the other day I went with my SO to a book signing for one of her favorite authors (Janet Evanovich) - it was a standing room only crowd - over 450 people showed up. This is a typical showing at her book signings, from what I understand.
I am sure for other "celebrity" authors, it is the same way - in short, a ton of people read.
So why is it text adventures are looked upon as "stale" gaming experiences?
I know all about the z-engine games that are made by adventure game designers and such - the contests, etc - that have a following. What I wonder is why there is not a clammoring from people worldwide to play these style games?
Is it too much to ask for to type commands - or to read? Have game players become too enamored with glitzy graphics? Is it too much to ask for them to actually think, and not just point and shoot?
Don't get me wrong - I like 3D games and shooters as much as anyone - in fact, there is a lot of promise in making very interactive and immersive style games with this format...
I just wonder why we don't see text adventure game authors (and I mean this in it's utmost sense - the authorship being paramount - the game should read like a book, like many of Infocom's games did) today?
Worldcom [worldcom.com] - Generation Duh!
Re:Ever play a text adventure (Score:2)
Infocom especially - I love the Zork series.
A well designed adventure is not only entertaining, but thorougly logical. If you got to such a point in an adventure, as you describe, then:
a) You missed the key somewhere, or maybe there is a different way to open the door (a lever in the basement, perhaps?) or,
b) (rarely happens) Something is wrong with the code, allowing you to get to a point without the key or whatever, and no way of going back.
I have played text adventures enough to know that when the answer appears, it is like "Duh!" - and a revelation occurs - causing me to descend deeper into the game. All adventure games should be mapped as they are explored (nothing beats making a map with pencil and paper, notes jotted down only to be smeared, etc) - sometimes you can study the map, and figure out where something may be, and why - and usually - it is there!
I enjoy adventure games because they give me situations to think in - they are more on the level of chess than other games. I think other games could come to this level, and some have, but they are rare - and for some reason, tend to bomb on the shelves...
Worldcom [worldcom.com] - Generation Duh!
Another thing... (Score:2)
>Look
You are in the living room of the house. To the east is a closed, locked door. Next to the door is a painting. To the north is a hallway leading to the kitchen. A mouse runs across the floor by your foot.
>Look floor
You watch the mouse. He scurries away into a hole in the baseboard next to the locked door.
>Look hole
You put your finger into the hole, and are bit by the mouse - OUCH!
At this point, one would realize "Maybe I can find some cheese" to lure the mouse out. Once you have baited the mouse (or, maybe you need the cheese, and a trap - which might be located in the shed outside! Hehe) from the hole, you can then reach in, feel for a key (or a button, or switch, or lever) to open the door (which of course leads to the basement).
A perfectly logical chain of events - one that might leave some scratching their heads (or banging them on the wall - you might even have the mouse run up a clock just for the hell of it!), but is perfectly obvious given some thought!
Worldcom [worldcom.com] - Generation Duh!
Re:Not really but... - Digistar II (Score:1)
-- Pure FTP server [pureftpd.org] - Upgrade your FTP server to something simple and secure.
Re:Not really but... - Digistar II (Score:1)
-- Pure FTP server [pureftpd.org] - Upgrade your FTP server to something simple and secure.
Re:Not really but... - Digistar II (Score:2)
(Jedi)
-- Pure FTP server [pureftpd.org] - Upgrade your FTP server to something simple and secure.
Re:Not really but... - Digistar II (Score:2)
-- Pure FTP server [pureftpd.org] - Upgrade your FTP server to something simple and secure.
Re:here's a disaster story (Score:1)
I'm glad I did, because it kept me from wasting $50. I tested Asheron's Call, ran like a dream, feedback from the developers was quick and to the point. Funcom shipped AO with bugs that were reported early in the public beta cycle. They werent listening to the testers, they had a timetable, and it shipped.
Re:If only... (Score:1)
Re:If only... (Score:1)
Seeing as we're talking about a vector display, not a raster display, perhaps the mirrors need to do something more complicated than just "spin"?
What about Sakura Taisen? (Score:1)
Has anyone here seen/played Sakura Taisen? The voice acting in that game is terrific. Granted, there is a good deal of FMV, but even the "normal" scenes with the characters speaking is rather well done. Besides, the FMV is an integral part of that game!
One you (and every one else here) missed: (Score:1)
Probably the best voice acting i've ever heard in any game goes to the System Shock series - from Shodan on down to the fear in the voices on the logs. SSII was incredible, but SS set the bar on voice-acting in a game, as far as i'm concerned. Pure gold from start to finish.
C
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Re:If only... (Score:1)
Re:MMORPG (Score:1)
Well, that is exactly why the game is called "Anarchy Offline" by most players I know
Re:here's a disaster story (Score:3)
Here's a norwegian link on the law. [odin.dep.no]
- Steeltoe
Re:Not really but... - Digistar II (Score:4)
Did he ever come up with hypnotic displays and laser shows to tempt small badly drawn kids into returning to the Plane'arium time and time again?
Re:Innovative Gameplay (Score:2)
The Sims
Black and White
The Longest Journey (yeah, not too innovative but brilliant and at least not another FPS)
Thief (which sadly didn't sell as well as it should have)
And now I see something called "The Sting" that looks promising and maybe even innovative.
There's always _some_ room for innovation in compuer gaming, although maybe not enough.
Dune II, not Dune. (Score:1)
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Re:here's a disaster story (Score:3)
They've all been plagued with launch issues affecting availability and the like. I was part of the AO Beta, even after downloading the 500Mb game you had to download a patch to get it working!
Now I'm not defending shoddy practice but if I'm going to invest $65 in a game that should immerse me I think I'm going to do a bit of research first.
You wouldn't just read an online review, walk down the car showroom, plonk down $30k for a car and then wonder what went wrong.
In our country if you get something home and it doesn't work yuo can take it back to the shop and get a refund. If you a really having problems then visit your local Trading Standards Office or write to the Office of Fair Trading.
One would think that after thousands of years of retail trade the lessons learned might have filtered down to you by now.
Yeah, (Score:1)
Next week... (Score:1)
Re:Yeah, (Score:1)
I like some vector games (rip off, asteroids), but not because they were vector games.
Re:Don't Trivialize The Word "Addictive" (Score:1)
Re:here's a disaster story (Score:1)
That is the most assinine thing I have ever heard. Mayhap they release games at christmas cause thats when everyone will buy them, good or bad. They are not trying to dump anything on you any more than the rest of the year.
Re:If only... (Score:2)
Develop and design your own Vectrex games... (Score:2)
On another note, unlike many other commercially abandoned consoles, all Vectrex games have been released for public, non-commercial, use.
The Mame and XMame [mame.net] packages now include Mess, so a general emulator is readilly available to run the old classics, and the new one that you just need to make. (Go ahead, get coding!)
Re:MMORPG (Score:2)
...or, you can build your own [worldforge.org]. WorldForge has fairly complex and differing rule sets, differnt UIs, and high-quality art work. Already, the starter game Acorn [worldforge.org] has some interesting game concepts and on the development side Python scripting and it's own game compiler/protocol engine named Atlas-C++ [worldforge.org].
Best of all...it's in active development!
Re:who cares ? (Score:1)
Yeah, no kidding. I wrote that question to Tom and now I really wonder what the heck he did...
Re:If only... (Score:1)
With the modern LED lasers about, you could build very nice a portable laser projector vector game... I've thought about this a lot and have built some prototype systems... but I'm all alone here in South America and need some buddies to help me.
Voice Over Done Well (Score:1)
The game that I feel has the best VO I've ever experienced would have to be Icewind Dale. Although Black Isle Studios has generally done an excellent job with all of the Infinity Engine games (as far as VO goes), Icewind Dale just seemed to stand out. I think the many different player voices that were available upon character creation really impressed me.
What was extremely important for Black Isle when they were creating these games based on D&D is that they have to draw the player into the experience. Apathetic voice actors would very quickly kill the illusion, and that's why I'm glad that BIS took the time to do it in four different titles (Baldur's Gate I & II, Icewind Dale, and Planescape:Torment).
Re:Voice Over Done Well (Score:1)
Re:voice acting doesn`t work ? (Score:1)
On my Amiga, to speak you have to write in a Shell :
SYS:> echo "hello happy few!" >SPEAK:
But, you can change accents (klingon anyone ?) stress or any parameters you need. The voices from WipeOut ARE voices from SPEAK: copied on the Amiga sound system.
I don`t think you read my post at all.. It`s not about how voice works, that`s usually taped anyway. It`s about the combination with computer graphics that makes voice acting look unnatural or 'unbelievable'.
ignace.
Re:Sometimes it works out just fine (Score:1)
I guess what this means is that the problems aren't so much technical, as you suggest. Instead, I believe it has to do more with suspension of disbelief. In a realistic, or "serious" setting (the world is at peril! you must rescue it! hurry!) this is much harder to achieve. Also,most dialogue in games (as well as in B-movies) sucks anyway, so there's no way for someone to make it convincing
Hmm yeah, very well put. That`s about as much as I wanted to say. The genre of the game may very well have his influence in how voice acting is perceived, regardless of the effort.. still I played various types of games and especially quests like the Monkey Islands have allways hugely entertained me. Possibly because the c&c voices are quite repetitive and action games are person centric, leaving little room to let your character actually be involved in interesting discussions about various subjects, other than the usual yelling of commands and describing features and hints and tips. On the other hand I seriously enjoyed homeworld and the great effort they put in making the voices non intrusive. So it`s definately possible but you have to understand your medium and setting. So yes, out-of-this-world scenery probably lends itself better to accept voice overs than real life settings, like you mentioned.
ignace
voice acting doesn`t work ? (Score:2)
Yes, I would really like to know what he meant by "voice acting doesn`t work in computer games."
Voice acting is just telling a tale and using enough intonation and emotion in you voice, adding a mindset to the graphical context, building a plot in the viewer`s mind. What CAN go wrong is the synching with the digital actors, and I`m sure back in the days there wasn`t much room for synching or modelling phonemes on a mouth. If you look at Final Fantasy, voice acting can definately be made realistic. What gets in the way is plastic skin.. maybe.. look at the 'The Banana Queen' video by Zita Swoon.. some great art there.
Maybe what he meant is that the character and the guy impersonating the character`s voice do not have the same featureset, that somehow his voice doesn`t sound convincing because the kind of stress he puts in his voice doesn`t exactly match the character`s movement. But I think this stems from the fact that cartoon or computer graphics generated models are generally animated without much regard to the emotional content they might or should or must contain. Or they are overemphasised to make them look very Disney. Something in our mind says that synthetic being is not real, and the voice therefore is not real either. On the other hand, Homer Simpson has a great voice, so it`s definately possible to give a cartoon the voice he needs. But then again The Simpsons are so absurdly normal that their absurdly normal voices stick good with them. Usually, toons are animated like this or that, because the moves look realistic or hot, and because usually there isn`t much room for including 'slips and defects of the skin' or movements that are non functional but preserve the integrity of the character, or 'believability', to use an obscene word.
Atleast I believe that lipsynching and facial animation based on naration and voice can be convincing. It just takes a tremendous amount of effort to make it realistic. Between the lines you can see Tom saying that when a production is to be finished, the voicepacks are usually the last thing studio`s do, and in order to get the game out of the door, things get rushed. But that doesn`t mean things can`t be done better.
At least, that`s what I think..
cheers,
ignace
who cares ? (Score:4)
I read until i came to this in the first paragraph, then my attention dropped.
"Can you tell me specifically what the dev system was like for Vectrex?"
Well, I'm not a programmer, so I never actually used a Vectrex dev system myself.
wtf ? I thought it was about developing games on a vectrex ? Back in these days there was hardly a lot to do for so called 'game-designers'.
Re:just try it here (Score:2)
That is why there are demos, reviews etc, to give you a chance to verify if you like the product or not.
In order to refund things, it often has to be something else then "consumable goods". I think anything below like $100 is "consumable goods", you buy it on your own risk, and it is hardly worth the trouble to return it.
Re:Uh oh, my facial tic is back (Score:1)
From the interview with Sloper:
I "foresaw" a videogame system that would let the kid play on the TV at the same time the parents were watching the TV. The kid would control a little game character who could run around in the foreground -- and make karate moves and stuff, so that the kid could punch and kick the actors in the TV show that the parents were watching, in real time. And whenever a kick "connected" with an actor, the machine would display a "biff" or "pow." Of course, the actors wouldn't show any reaction, but the kid would be having fun.
That has never happened in the 15+ years since I foresaw this. It still might, I guess.
I now understand why cool, truly innovative games are so rare.
The kid(s) can play on the TV while you watch?! (Score:1)
I "foresaw" a videogame system that would let the kid play on the TV at the same time the parents were watching the TV. The kid would control a little game character who could run around in the foreground -- and make karate moves and stuff, so that the kid could punch and kick the actors in the TV show that the parents were watching, in real time. And whenever a kick "connected" with an actor, the machine would display a "biff" or "pow." Of course, the actors wouldn't show any reaction, but the kid would be having fun.
Let me just state, for the record, that should such a 'feature' ever come to pass, I will NEVER buy this. Furthermore, I can't see this appealing to any kid over a gaming system where the characters react to your input!
And that list of 'worst ever' game development experiences - half of them were attributed to "I was juggling a lot of other projects at the time". Humph! Just goes to emphasis the number one problem in game design: Not enough time (=$$$) put in to do it *right*. With more forthought, a lot of flawed designs wouldn't make it off the conceptual boards, and with more careful implementation, fewer quick hacks, a good concept would't fall down upon implementation.
BUT, no one can wait three years for a game to come out for a system that will be obsolete by then. Personally, I don't think the current state will change until the obsolecence cycle lengthens signifigantly and companies can count on systems being there for the long-haul production.
Re:MMORPG (Score:1)
Not even Pac-man. If I'm not mistaken, it had a problem with the level counter rolling over and messing everything up after 255 boards.
Re:Tom's CV (Score:1)
Ah, that would be a white screen with a black border (on the good ol C64). Did you really prefer those colors? Seems like an invitation for eyestrain, I always preferred a black background, with gray border and cyan text, myself. :)
Fuzzy
Re:Voice Over Done Well (Score:1)
Re:here's a disaster story (Score:1)
> selling you the shell of a car for $30,000 and
> promising that in a few weeks or months, they'll
> get around to putting the engine and interior in
> it so you can actually use it.
Actually, it was only about $27,000, and they included the engine & interior. However, I understand that I'm supposed to get on a waiting list for the right tires.
Re:Not really but... - Digistar II (Score:1)
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Re:Not really but... - Digistar II (Score:1)
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Re:Yeah, (Score:2)
I still enjoy playing Armor Attack in 2-player mode.
A friend of mine once said... "these were the times when ergonomy was still a concept"
I don't agree anymore
Now, ergonomy has become a concept, at these time, it was a necessity
How else would you have made a game running on a so pathetically-powerless console entertaining ?
Really, get yourself an emulator and just discover what gaming meant at these times so that you'll end this troll on the right side.
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Not really but... - Digistar II (Score:4)
While the engineer was still taking some classes to understand the way it basically worked, he just read the doc and started to code some games on it, like an asteroids-clone...
On a 20meter-diameter ceiling, this was excellent
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Turning computers off.. (Score:1)
Bah, must be a Windoze box.
I'll reboot my machine when I get that new video card, any day now...
K45.
Electronics Boutique (Score:1)
I knew people who used to buy games, beat them within 10 days, then return them and move on to the next game...
Re:here's a disaster story (Score:1)
Yes, it has many flaws, but appalling? Really? The amount of work and design that must have gone into that game blows my mind. Maybe, because I'm a programmer by trade, I'm taking the whining by the clueless too much to heart.
Anyway, my post got modded as a troll; it wasn't meant to be. I was trying to provide some counter-balance. Thanks for listening :)
Tom's CV (Score:1)
I'm surprised he didn't claim that he programmed the AI for the 2nd ghost in Ms Pac-Man as well.
The one thing I always liked about the Activision designers of old (i.e. Atari 2600 games) is that they were amazing programmers that knew the console in and out. Yes, gameplay is always number one, but to have an outstanding game, you have to add something new. David Crane did his platform thing with Pitfall and Carol Shaw (?) did River Raid. With those games, they pushed the limit and added something completely new. I wonder what innovative things Tom did?
Cheers,
Hooky1963
Re:MMORPG (Score:1)
From what I've experienced though, other then the patches (which are almost always announced days ahead of time) there is very little server downtime. There have been several times when I experienced either severe network lag or packet loss, and you get to watch a lot of the game sprites of PCs and monster 'jump' around a lot because of it.
No game is perfect though. Well, Pac-man, maybe...
Kierthos
How will economies work in NWN ? (Score:2)
The only things I can thing of that might work: 1) you make the DM pay for stuff with real money...maybe as more people who play his scenario, he gets credits to create more stuff. 2) The game restricts how much stuff (treasure, etc) can be awarded for a given amount of monsters that must be slain. But it seems like it would be nearly impossible for the game to effectively enforce such a policy.
Re:Voice Over Done Well (Score:1)
Innovative Gameplay (Score:1)
When are people going to say "I have played that game enough times now" and go and actively seek something new?
Sadly, I fear that if you really have a good new idea for a game, you'll have to make it in your spare time, give it away for free, and let someone else make a whole bunch of money out of a clone of it if it takes off.
Re:here's a disaster story (Score:1)
Personally, I think I'll be satisfied with it. The design (IMO) has some major improvements over EQ (I haven't played AC) in the mission system and a skill system that requires a bit more choice and should result in a bit more individuality at higher levels. What I disliked most about EQ was that two characters of the same race, class, and level were essentially identical, apart from equipment. To my mind, an RPG ought to offer multiple ways for each class to accomplish things. Right now, it seems like AO may do this. Of course, I haven't been able to play it for more than 20 minutes without it crashing.... But perhaps someday!
-Daniel
no udp (Score:1)
Nopes, they only use TCP. Check out this thread [funcom.com] on the AO forums.
You are definatly not the one only bitching about this game.... just check out the General forum for AO, and you will see some complaining and bug reporting [funcom.com].
-Kraft
NeverWinterNights, an E(xpandable)MMORPG (Score:1)
What I find TOTALLY cool about NWN as a D&D fan is that NWN is based on 3rd Edition D&D and you will be able to [neverwinternights.com] let your Game Master create a world (a town, a desert or a whole planet), and only let his players join. This way I can play D&D over the net, just with my friends. If we feel like it, we can portal to other worlds, and, as a team, slay other ppl. My RPG group has been looking for remote playing software forever, since we live pretty far away from each other.
Disclaimer before I get flamed to hell: take all of this with a pinch of salt. The general attitude of BioWare seems to be "maybe we will have this or that, I can nearly guarentee it", so I know, it's not for sure we will see ALL of this functionality.
btw, ETA for NWN is Spring 2002.
-Kraft
too late, sorry... (Score:1)
n.
- One who is addicted, as to narcotics or a
compulsive activity.
- A devoted adherent; a fan: "We are all... addicts of change" (Christopher Lasch).
I have no problem with "addicted" being watered out, but "love" and "hate" losing their meaning due to insincere use, bothers me.-Kraft
MMORPG (Score:3)
However, developing the story seems to be Funcoms smallest problem right now. They are having serious connection and server uptime issues, which is pissing off all the players. From what I hear, the game only uses TCP/IP and no UDP like most other online games. This means that every packet has to be confirmed, which is not always needed.
Apparently the game is very addictive (I think my friend will lose his job, if he doesn't quit playing during work).
-Kraft
Re:just try it here (Score:1)
Yes you do, if they cooked it wrong. If I order a rare burger, and it comes out well done, I fully expect a refund.
Do you try to get a refund if the book you bought was not just that good ?
Again, you sure do. Most large bookstores offer a 30 day refund on books. If I buy a technical book that sucks, or is filled with errors, you bet I'm going to return it. Sure, a $6 paperback might not be worth it, but a $40 - $50 book is absolutely worth returning.
Here's the deal. Most places that sell software will only give you an exchange for the exact same piece of software that you purchased. This is worthless. If the software that I bought sucks, or especially if it doesn't work, I should get a refund. If I bring AO into most chains and tell them that it doesn't work on my computer (which is true), they will tell me, "That's fine, grab a new copy of the same game." Of course the new one won't work either. The problem was not the physical material that I purchased. The problem is in the product itself. It DOESN'T WORK! In essence, I have just burned $50.
Fortunately there are places in Atlanta that you can return softare for any reason. It costs a little more, but if there's a game that I am not sure is going to be good, I'll pay the extra fee for the privelege of being allowed to return a faulty product if I need to.
State of MMORPG'S (Score:4)
Connection Speed -- Not everyone has cable or a T1 line to connect with. The simple fact that your ability to enjoy a game can be jeaprodized by a telephone line poses a major problem for most users.
Play Styles -- Not everyone can play nicely together. Player Killers (PK's) and Roleplayers despise one another. Plain and simple. Need proof? Look at UO again. For the longest time you only had one "realm" to play on. Complaints by people to Game Counselors and support staff grew to such magnitude, OSI (aka, minion of the hellspawn known as EA) had to double their servers capacity so that there were now 2 realms for every shard: This worked out to be at least 10 new servers at that time that had to be maintained on the prexisting budget. Imagine the hit R&D took!(That would explain why UO3D sucked my dogs balls) And once the non-pking shard was opened, 2/3 of the client base went to the new "Non-Pking" facet known as Trammel, leaving the former facet nearly desolate.
Content-Control -- Individual users have little to no say about what they want the game to become despite the fact that they pay for it. Only massive quantities of emails and posts agreeing on a new aspect get implemented (and some that are NOT agreed on). Take UO yet again. Once player housing was allowed, everyone wanted a house. This lead to servers being jam-packed with new data from all the subsequent houses. To solve this problem, OSI imposed housing placement limitations (some of which in my mind were LUDICROUS! You can't place a house within a few steps of a certain type of grass for example)that caused a tremndous outcry from players. They had lost control of an aspect of a gaming world they pay for. Piss off too many players, and you loose money.
These are just 3 of the major aspects that stick out in my mind that the article didn't mention when they said online games were "The Next Big Thing". Although I have to agree MMORPG'S are really awsome.. I'm drooling over Shadowbane [carnage.net] right now.
Re:more like this (Score:1)
You guys got your cube to spin? Ours just twisted itself inside out. Something to do with the Matrices being back to front, apparently, although they haven't released the Matrix 2 and 3 yet, so I don't get that... unless they're prequels...
Re:more like this (Score:2)
Actually, this is funny, not OT - unless you're a technically illiterate goober, that is.
Hey, I've got karma to burn and I'm tired of being modded down by ignorant bitches. Do your worst, bitches.
Re:here's a disaster story (Score:2)
I do.
OK. But the AO developers didn't even take the time to learn about trivial stuff, like that TCP sucks (for bulk game traffic)? I wish them well, but it sounds to me like whoever made that decision needs to be shown the door, and soon, if AO is to rescue itself.
But hell, they've got nice box art, so it'll do well. ;)
Re:here's a disaster story (Score:2)
My, what a rant. Unfortunately, AO is an appalling piece of engineering. TCP? TCP?
Re:here's a disaster story (Score:2)
I say appalling advisedly.
I'd be the first to say that network architecture of a MPOG ("Massively" is meaningless without context or quantification) is a complex beastie, and very tricky to get right first time.
But this mistake has been made over and over again. There is a great article about the screw ups made in X Wing vs TIE fighter, that explains why you need to send some (most) traffic by UDP. My god, Netrek [netrek.org] worked through all this ten years ago.
Uh oh, my facial tic is back (Score:3)
Reading this, I was reminded of the producers/designers I've met in the games business over the years.
They have all been, without exception, soulless, talentless, buzzword compliant corporate cocksuckers with an "enthusiasm span" of about two weeks and all the loyalty and team spirit of a rattlesnake with a migraine.
The big giggle is that they grab the credit for great games (check the credits list in your favourite game), but shit never sticks to them. No matter how tits up the game goes, producers/designers always manage to pin the blame on development and stagger on to the next project, usually with a better package, because, hey, they gained valuable experience, right?
Here's a typical conversation between a producer and a developer.
Think I'm joking? I only wish.
I just HAVE to say it... (Score:1)
What the hell is a veteran game?
Sorry.
The future of gaming... (Score:1)
Sometimes it works out just fine (Score:1)
I guess what this means is that the problems aren't so much technical, as you suggest. Instead, I believe it has to do more with suspension of disbelief. In a realistic, or "serious" setting (the world is at peril! you must rescue it! hurry!) this is much harder to achieve. Also,most dialogue in games (as well as in B-movies) sucks anyway, so there's no way for someone to make it convincing.
on usenet (Score:2)
I remember last year I had the opportunity to ask Tom Sloper a few questions on a newsgroup, I forget which one, a games design one I think.
Anyways, he gave really good answers to my questions and was generally very helpful. Take a look at his website aimed at giving advice to budding games designers-->> Sloperama.com [sloperama.com]
This is of course a bit offtopic I think, have mercy on me!!Re:Don't Trivialize The Word "Addictive" (Score:1)
Re:NeverWinterNights, an E(xpandable)MMORPG (Score:1)
Haha.. (Score:1)
"Press any key to begin."
Re:Innovative Gameplay (Score:1)
I'm a big fan of War strategy games, First one I played was Dune (Which is what C&C is a "clone" off). In my experience the "clones" are better than the originals I love playing C&C but I prefer Total Annihilation but on the other hand I prefer quake to the QII and QIII.
Its like movies when they find something that works they stick too it, without realiseing people get tired of the same thing (Screen1-3, I know what you did last summer, I still know what you did last summer, I have a freind who knows someone who mentioned something about what you did a few summers back).
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If only... (Score:2)
Is there a solid technical reason why vector systems are not made any more, maybe?
The real problem with MMORPG (Score:1)
Re:How will economies work in NWN ? (Score:1)
Re:Tom's CV (Score:1)
Re:who cares ? (Score:1)