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Valencia Region Government Completes Switch To LibreOffice

timothy posted about 8 months ago | from the latin-roots dept.

Government 93

jrepin writes "The administration of the Spanish autonomous region of Valencia has completed its switch to LibreOffice, a free and open source suite of office productivity applications. Last week Friday the region's ICT department announced that the office suite is installed on all of the 120,000 desktop PCs of the administration, including schools and courts. The migration will save the government some 1.5 million euro per year on proprietary software licenses."

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93 comments

Nothing Yet... really a first post (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44641969)

OSS is loosing its wow

The migration will save the government some 1.5 m (1, Insightful)

Defenestrar (1773808) | about 8 months ago | (#44641983)

But what's the cost in special training and support? Anyone got a reasonable number for the ROI?

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (4, Informative)

binarylarry (1338699) | about 8 months ago | (#44642021)

It won't just save it 1.5 now, it'll save that every upgrade cycle.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44643013)

"The migration will save the government some 1.5 million euro per year on proprietary software licenses."

Sure but it will cost them 5M Euros in re-training and compatibility issues not to mention lost productivity as well for at least the next 5 years.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44643397)

This is different to the upgrade from Office 2003 to Office 2007 because of what? Migrating from Office 2003 to Libreoffice constitutes a smaller cost in training and compatibilty than the move to Office 2007.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (5, Insightful)

luis_a_espinal (1810296) | about 8 months ago | (#44643689)

This is different to the upgrade from Office 2003 to Office 2007 because of what?

Exaaaaactly. It's like some people in /. have no clue as of the ridiculously unnecessary training costs that Office 2007 introduced. MS Office till v2003 set a paradigm of usage, an operational lingua franca of sorts that most people using MS products knew rather well.

It worked. It was fine, and people were efficient with it. There was no reason to change the UI paradigms considering that:

1 - MS Office 2007 did not introduce significant functionality changes, and

2 - the UI changes are not truly needed to use new functionality missing from previous versions.

In other words, fuck you Microsoft for violating the "if it ain't broken, don't fix it."

Migrating from Office 2003 to Libreoffice constitutes a smaller cost in training and compatibilty than the move to Office 2007.

Indeed as well. I'm not a LibreOffice fan, but I know that a person well-versed in MS Office 2003 can make the leap quite easily to LibreOffice.

The reality is that MS Office users have continuously been struggling to use MS Office 2007 and newer. Let us do a google for usage questions regarding MS Office 2007. That it was released eons ago (in internet years) and that people still struggle with it, that is an indictment in the whole UI change malarkey.

Companies are forced to waste money in retraining or in loss of productivity by users that have to constantly google for ways to do shit the were able to do with their eyes closed for over a decade. The whole counter-argument of LibreOffice retraining costs is completely bogus considering that you will have to retrain or lose productivity the moment you go to Office 2007 or newer.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (2)

Rob Y. (110975) | about 8 months ago | (#44644311)

True enough, except that through FUD and phony 'open formats', Microsoft managed to keep most of its users on Office through the 2007 paradigm change - so the Office retraining costs ended up being incurred for the switch between MSO versions, and will be required again to switch to Libre. Maybe Valencia was smart enough to stick with MSO 2003 through their switch. If so, good for them.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1, Interesting)

tibit (1762298) | about 8 months ago | (#44644549)

Here's what I'm thinking: if you really need to train your workers in something as simple as an Office software package, maybe it's time to rethink your hiring policies. I mean, come the fuck on, that's the kind of stuff I dug back in elementary school, it doesn't take a genius, really (I'm not one). I was using WordStar and NewWord on CP/M machines back in 1st grade, and those things were, I'd say, much less user friendly compared to the ribbon. It takes a particularly behind the times troglodyte not to be able to look around for tutorials, youtube videos, etc. There's plenty of it, heck, the Internet is almost saturated with ribbon training.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

Russ1642 (1087959) | about 8 months ago | (#44645697)

Have you seen what people put on a resume? Everyone 'knows Excel'. I swear I even told the person interviewing me that they should put me in front of a computer before they hire me so that I can prove that I actually know what I'm doing. Of course they didn't, and apparently there's only like two other people in this whole office that know not to make formulas like =A1 + C1 + F1 + L1 + 18. So yeah, companies need to not only change their hiring policies but they need to actually check that people are capable of doing what they claim they can. The problem won't get fixed because the people doing the hiring are the ones who don't have a clue what they're doing, let alone be able to check that the new hires are capable.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

tibit (1762298) | about 8 months ago | (#44646281)

I'm probably just temporarily dense, but what's wrong with =A1+C1+F1+L1+18? Yeah, you may want to put the constant 18 out there in a cell as well - is that what you imply? Or not using the SUM function? Or the lack of row or column locks ($s)? I'd be reluctant to generalize that such a formula is somehow always unkosher.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (2)

daem0n1x (748565) | about 8 months ago | (#44643405)

So we should never, ever change anything, because the adaptation period is too expensive. If everybody had the same mindset as you, we'd still be living in caves.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 8 months ago | (#44643745)

What's wrong with conservation of utility in software? Familiarity is rather important to productivity, and major changes reduce productivity, at least in the short term.

We all moved to Office 2010 last year. While everyone is doing okay now, I can tell you right now that the first few months was just fucking awful.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

unixisc (2429386) | about 8 months ago | (#44643755)

No, the costs would be one time only - you don't need to re-train the same people. As new people come in, training would be needed, but that's something that would be needed anyway.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44643843)

No its not. They teach MS Office in school. Not Libre Office.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (3, Insightful)

Ngarrang (1023425) | about 8 months ago | (#44646325)

They will now be teaching LibreOffice in all of those schools, not MS Office. Thus, in Valencia, no future Valencian employees in the government will require any new training.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44647527)

Uhm, the summary actually said they switched schools to it. You know, as the government you have the advantage that you actually get to decide what people are taught in school. Of course you can argue if it is good for your economy to force all businesses still using MSOffice to have to train people, but it sure reduces the government's training costs.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (2)

tibit (1762298) | about 8 months ago | (#44644507)

I'm saying it tongue-in-cheek, but man, those are bureaucrats, there's no productivity left to be lost. If they'll be learning a new software package, that's like gained productivity, in all likelihood.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (2)

tiagosousa (1931172) | about 7 months ago | (#44652807)

Not to mention it's much better to spend that money in the local economy (such as training and support companies) than to see the money fly away to microsoft.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (2)

RobertLTux (260313) | about 8 months ago | (#44642039)

it depends on the From Version if they are starting from a nonribbon version of MSO then the training could be nearly trival.

as far as that goes has anybody done a Ribbon Interface pack for LO??

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (4, Insightful)

somersault (912633) | about 8 months ago | (#44642093)

as far as that goes has anybody done a Ribbon Interface pack for LO??

All I can think is: why?

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

Defenestrar (1773808) | about 8 months ago | (#44642273)

I for one like software which is smart enough to put the menus I need in an easy place to reach when I want them. Beats digging through a "mega evil rats nest of doom" tree structure every time I do something routine (like adjusting error bars). Context sensitive is just smart.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (2)

somersault (912633) | about 8 months ago | (#44642435)

I've hated "smart menus" for a long time. Usually you can put your commonly used items in a toolbar, and for everything else, you go to the menu. Every time you go to the menu, you need to click the expand arrows to see all the options (and these days that's always while looking for the option to turn off the expand arrows..).

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

somersault (912633) | about 8 months ago | (#44642467)

I like smart menus in some contexts btw, but they need to have a fallback that is logical. Like the start menu in XP/7 keeping track of your most commonly used programs, but still letting you see a full list of programs very quickly if you so wish. The fact that you can customise the icons on the main panel like in OSX and Linux docks makes the "smart" part almost irrelevant though.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (2)

MightyYar (622222) | about 8 months ago | (#44642629)

I found Satan's Slashdot alias! :)

I agree with you, to an extent. I like the ribbon as a toolbar - I hate it as a menu. Every function should reside in a fixed place, in a addition to having a context-sensitive toolbar. Why? Sometimes the computer guesses wrong. The ribbon also re-arranges itself depending on screen size and shape, which means an adjustment period when switching between laptop and desktop - or even when working in full screen vs. windowed mode. The Mac version of Office has both ribbon and menus, and it works just fine.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44643655)

Every time I see someone discussing the ribbon, I think back to my days of raging at vi because it would just beep at me when I'm trying to type.

Modal editors are great, once you understand the modes and how they work. Vi had two main modes: input and command. The ribbon has a half dozen modes, plus more that appear by magic when the computer thinks they're necessary (though the computer has gotten better at this magic since the old days of raging at excel because the menu you want won't come up because you clicked the wrong pixel in a graph). Modes are great for power users who know what mode they need to be in to get the features they want, for everyone else, the modes are a source of rage.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44643437)

This is a totally lame criticism.

Have you not heard of customized shortcut keys? They can beat the pants off any "ribbon" interface anyday.

In LO try Tools --> Customize --> Keyboard.

Or has MSFT got you so brainwashed that no alternative is admissible?

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

Belial6 (794905) | about 8 months ago | (#44644279)

You mean like how in Excel, when you want to insert a new line in your spreadsheet, you click on the 'Insert Ribbon'? Oh, wait. The Insert tab of the ribbon doesn't have an insert line selection. That must be because people almost never need to put a new line into their spreadsheet.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

tibit (1762298) | about 8 months ago | (#44644605)

Ah, a gripe I agree with, although LibreOffice fares no better. I always end up adding a Cmd-Shift-I shortcut for "Insert Row" in Calc.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (2)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | about 8 months ago | (#44644627)

I for one like software which is smart enough to put the menus I need in an easy place to reach when I want them. Beats digging through a "mega evil rats nest of doom" tree structure every time I do something routine (like adjusting error bars). Context sensitive is just smart.

But not that smart.

The thing that blew my blood pressure was when Office 2003 got clever with menus.

I'm used to printing via Ctrl-P command key. Office 2003 kept assuming I didn't use the File/Print menu so it removed it. Along with its binding to Ctrl-P. Half the time I went to print something, it didn't print. Because "clever" Office 2002 removed it from the context.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44644073)

because it's open source, and a lot of really brilliant open source developers make really, really dumb UI choices.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

AliasMarlowe (1042386) | about 8 months ago | (#44642153)

as far as that goes has anybody done a Ribbon Interface pack for LO??

One hopes not.
It sounds like a product made by sadists and installed only by masochists.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | about 8 months ago | (#44644675)

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Donatien Alphonse François, Marquis de Sade, speaking on behalf of Leopold Ritter von Sacher-Masoch.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

Asteconn (2468672) | about 8 months ago | (#44642611)

> Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$100.00 charge
FTFY

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642069)

But what's the cost in special training and support? Anyone got a reasonable number for the ROI?

Obviously another M$ fanboy trying to spread FUD
.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642381)

No, obviously a reasonable person who might actually work in real life, unlike you. Fuck off kiddo.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (2)

Pi1grim (1956208) | about 8 months ago | (#44642071)

Guess it's pretty much the same, as with MS. In addition, it's easier to train locals to provide support and develop special features, required by users, thus boosting the economy.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

Defenestrar (1773808) | about 8 months ago | (#44642217)

A new platform means you have to provide at least some additional training with the implementation. So, if that training costs you 1.5 m. the first year, then you've paid for the licensing within the first year (assuming regular support, upgrades, etc... are all the same cost). I'd guess that a 3 year ROI would probably be considered a good investment in the tech world. Much past that and you're playing with variables in a rapidly changing environment and you may not decide to move from your existing investment. The government (as in this case) may make prioritizing local economy boosts, but the corporate world may not place as much importance on it.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (3, Interesting)

Pi1grim (1956208) | about 8 months ago | (#44642657)

Well, most of the users don't care what Office Suite they don't know how to use.
Training is actually minimal. The main boost is that documents can be saved and viewed without lockin to OS and office suit. It also removes dependency on Microsoft and might give a little boost to small businesses, that won't have to buy office and windows in order to communicate with the government, so that migration decision might make a lot of sense.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (2)

daem0n1x (748565) | about 8 months ago | (#44643453)

Nobody has to buy Microsoft Office to communicate with governments in the European Union. We have open standards laws forbidding governments from doing that kind of shit. Much to the dismay of Microsoft lobbyists and the officials in their pockets.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642115)

What would it cost in special training if they instead upgraded their office 2007 to 2010 or 2013? The UI difference is bigger.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642151)

There are no reasonable numbers for ROI. There can't be.

Look at it this way. MS word 6.0 would have worked perfectly fine for the task. Where is all those billions going?

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about 8 months ago | (#44642383)

Where is all those billions going?

Obviously not on better automatic grammar correction.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

neorush (1103917) | about 8 months ago | (#44642241)

I never quite got this argument, I'll bet they have an internal IT staff that helps with MS office. I have never seen a large organization's IT department tell staff to call MS support.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642447)

Oh god how I wish I could do that!

"Sorry can't help, please call Microsoft"

"Sorry can't help, please call Adobe"

"Sorry can't help, please call Oracle" (fuck java updates, thankfully I built my own auto updater so now our employees can install it themselves even though they're locked down)

"Sorry can't help, please call Geek Squad as I'm too busy on Slashdot and Reddit" =P

I hate my job.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642411)

What training?

Unless you are doing some insane thing with office (like complex business calculations - which probably should never pass near it), you will not need any kind of "special training".

Just use it as a normal productivity package.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

tibit (1762298) | about 8 months ago | (#44644647)

Unless your employees are inflexible troglodytes, that is. It seems to me that you get what you pay for, and if you don't want to pay for better workers from day one, you'll end up paying for various inefficiencies later, again and again and again. Oh, it's an office worker, we don't pay them to think. Yeah, so you'll be paying to think for them, and you'll be paying for training by consultants that charge more per hour than you earn in a day, ha. It's slightly beyond me how in this day and age office workers can't figure it out by themselves, say perusing the vast information trove that is Internet.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

Mathinker (909784) | about 7 months ago | (#44655657)

It's slightly beyond me how in this day and age office workers can't figure it out by themselves, say perusing the vast information trove that is Internet.

It's simple:

"Hm, how do you center a table entry, again?"

[Consults browser]

"Ooooo, look, ... shiny!"

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (5, Insightful)

Bert64 (520050) | about 8 months ago | (#44642529)

This idea that moving away from MS will cost millions in training is FUD spread by MS to discourage such migrations...
There are many cases where upgrading to the latest MS offering is actually a more significant change than switching to an alternative, for instance moving from msoffice 2003 to 2007 is a bigger leap than going from 2003 to libreoffice as the user interface is entirely different.

In reality many such migrations have been performed, often with no training being provided whatsoever. Users are just expected to get on with it, and generally do.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44643239)

(re)training is insignificant to the government compared to the savings in the long run. unlike businesses, (some) governments do seem to try to think of something else than instant satisfaction (with no regard for the future). I agree that this ROI argument is pure FUD - given the 2 competing software suites both fit requirements and are otherwise very similiar in difficulty to a newcomer. this (again) makes the retraining a 1-time insignificant expense. after that the normal training is exactly equal in cost for the two - but you still save money yearly on the free option.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

nurb432 (527695) | about 8 months ago | (#44649067)

It may not be millions ( or could be ) but it will still be worth the change to be rid of the upgrade cost next year, and the year after.... Also training is a one time cost.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642735)

  • Performance of a spanish administration worker = 0 (constant, approximate)
  • so, ROI = 0 no matter how much investment is made

Not a meaningful metric in this case.

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44643129)

And how much did they train for MS Office ?

Re:The migration will save the government some 1.5 (1)

fido_dogstoyevsky (905893) | about 8 months ago | (#44650275)

But what's the cost in special training and support?...

From my experience in my business - 3/8 of stuff all (for the initial changeover from office 95(?), ie less than the training needed after a new version of office came out).

Since converting - a lot less than if we stayed with microsoft office (comparing our training needs to those of people who stayed on the microsoft upgrade treadmill).

So... (2)

gigaherz (2653757) | about 8 months ago | (#44642007)

... Microsoft would now say that they may be spending even more in support after the change.

Has anyone given actual numbers on that, yet? Anyone who has fully switched away from Microsoft Office and, after a few years, has numbers showing they spent less overall?

Re:So... (2)

Vanderhoth (1582661) | about 8 months ago | (#44642125)

What I find interesting is I don't know anyone that actually uses MS support for office in the first place. The companies I've worked for have always used MS Office and paid for the support, but no one ever uses it. I can't see why it would be more or less expensive to use a free office alternative.

What kind of support would someone need that they'd have to pay for?

I use MS Office at work and Libre at home and do the same thing for both when I want to do something different and just Google around. No support or training cost involved.

Besides, Googling around (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642215)

gets answers that actually work.

Much better than being charged by MS for being put on hold... while the help desk bings around for the wrong answer.

Re:So... (2)

Russ1642 (1087959) | about 8 months ago | (#44642269)

Most of the support probably comes from the administration side. Installation, updates, minor bug fixes, licensing stuff, etc.

Re:So... (1)

droptone (798379) | about 8 months ago | (#44642357)

That would be helpful in some respects, but not cut and dry, especially since salaries are sunk costs. It seems very possible that there are organizations that have support people who would otherwise not be doing anything important. Those folks would need to help retrain others, but their time doesn't have any organizational opportunity costs attached.

Re:So... (2)

Alioth (221270) | about 8 months ago | (#44642787)

There is also the difference in where the costs go especially when considering government. Let's imagine that every cent spent on licensing now needs to be spent on support.

* Licensing costs mostly (if not all) disappear to a foreign country.
* Those support costs are most likely spent with people living in Valencia

The money spent on licensing has zero benefit to the local economy. However, if you had to still spend all that money on support, the vast majority would get spent in the local economy with local benefit. Private enterprise probably doesn't care about this, but governments will do since a better local economy means they get some of that money back directly in taxes, and indirectly in a better performing local economy making the whole place a more attractive place to be.

On the other hand I'm not convinced that any more support will be needed over Microsoft Office. I do not know anyone who has ever received formal training in Microsoft Word. And those who are familiar with Word don't seem to have any difficulty transitioning from the traditional interface to the ribbon interface which is a pretty large change - at least as large as moving to LibreOffice.

Re:So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44643337)

how one can assume that changing to LibreOffice would somehow make their support rise to insane amounts is stupid. most users who need support need it for simple tasks that the local IT answers anyways (more local jobs is the *worst* outcome). LibreOffice is a very mature product and it is as good/bad as MS Office in pretty much any regard (though im sure there are cases where either product comes out better - this Valencias does not seem to be one of them). its after all just a glorified text-editor.

there is another region... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642031)

...that is starting to install both Office and LibreOffice on new PCs and reformated ones.

Destek Ukash (-1, Offtopic)

ukashdes (3027415) | about 8 months ago | (#44642067)

Ukash [ukashpay.com] ile henüz tanmam iseniz ilk etapta online olarak bir kart satn almanz gerekiyor ve bu kartlar sizlere limit kullanm özellii ile sunulan kartlardr. Limitiniz bittii anda ayn karttan yararlanamazsnz bu da güvenliiniz için yaplan bir uygulamadr. Ukash kart [ukashpay.com] limitinizi sizler belirleyebiliyorsunuz ancak alt limite de dikkat etmeniz gerekiyor. Limit bittii anda kartnz iptal ediliyor ve yeni bir kart satn alarak ilemlerinize devam edebiliyorsunuz. Güvenlik konusunda hiçbir sknt yaatmayan ve bu anlamda sizleri zor durumda brakmayan bu sistem sayesinde online olarak al verilerinizi yapabilirsiniz. Bahis severlerin de çok fazla tercih ettii bu sistem ile para bozdurma gibi ilemleri de ksa sürelerde yapabilirsiniz. Ukash kart satan yüzlerce firma vardr ve online olarak sizlere hizmet vermektedirler. Satn alma ilemi yapmadan önce canl destek hizmetinin olup olmadn sorgulamanz sizler için daha faydal olacaktr çünkü bu hizmet ile birlikte ilemleriniz daha ksa sürede hallolur ve daha kolay bir ekilde yaplr. Ukash kart satn almak için farkl sitelerden yararlanabilirsiniz ancak bu sitelerin köklü siteler olmas önemlidir. Ukash kart sisteminde paranz hiçbir ekilde içeride kalmaz çünkü sistem buna güvenliiniz açsndan müsaade etmez ve diyelim ki böyle bir durum ile kar karya geldiniz, hemen ödeme talep ederek yetkili kiilerle irtibata geçebilirsiniz. Son derece güvenli olan bu sistemle sizler de tanmak istiyorsanz ilk etapta düük bir limitle ukash kart satn alarak deneyebilirsiniz. Farkl bütçelere en uygun ekilde limit belirleyen ve dünya üzerinde online olarak hizmet veren tek sistem olan ukash sayesinde kendi bütçenize göre limit belirleyebilir ve satn alma ilemini kolayca yapabilirsiniz. Kredi kart kullanmaktan çekiniyorsanz ve kartnz online platformlarda kullanmak istemiyorsanz ukash kart satn alarak güvenli al veri yapabilir ya da bozdurma ilemlerini gerçekletirebilirsiniz. Tek kullanmlk olduu için harcayacanz kadar ukash satn almanz sizler için daha faydal olacaktr ve bu hizmeti sizlere sunan ukash oldukça güvenilirdir. Bahis severlerin vazgeçilmezi olan bu sistem sayesinde saniyeler içerisinde ödeme ilemlerinizi yapabilirsiniz.

Maybe I am missing something (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642235)

I use LO at the house and use Office 2010 at the office.
I use word and excel and have zero issues when I use LO.

What am I missing here? I realize that there are issues with formatting but beyond that its been smooth going between the two.

I don't think I am a power user though. I don't use any of the advanced features so maybe that's where the retraining comes in.
Otherwise it seems overblown to be claiming that it will take millions for re-training.

Cheap Office Licenses (2)

Cassini2 (956052) | about 8 months ago | (#44642257)

$1.5 million per year over 120,000 PCs works out to $12.50 per PC per year. Is anyone else getting those prices for Microsoft Office?

Re:Cheap Office Licenses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642645)

well they don't update every year, at minimum they'd update every 3 years, most likely they would've updated every 4-5 years.

Re:Cheap Office Licenses (1)

MightyYar (622222) | about 8 months ago | (#44642647)

Probably because MS Office doesn't update every year, so you don't need to buy a license for every computer every year. Or, they are on a Microsoft contract.

Re:Cheap Office Licenses (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642703)

Based on your calculations $12.50 is the cost per copy of MS Office! LibreOffice has not license cost so the savings is based on NOT having to pay for MS Office.

Re:Cheap Office Licenses (-1)

sosume (680416) | about 8 months ago | (#44642743)

So they factored in the costs for extra support, downtime, conversion, training and lower productivity, and the end sum is a 12,50 change in price per pc. Most people get office training in their education, but now all new users will have to follow training or the unions will start complaining. They might as well take a pc with a smaller hard drive or without a dvd drive for the same cost saving, and do without all the trouble which comes with open source in enterprise organisations.I predict a rollback to Office (or to another open source office suite if they are stubborn and anti-MS) within the next 3 years. Open source office suites are like Chinese knock-offs. They may look similar to the real deal from the outside but once you start working intensively with them they start to degrade quickly.

Re:Cheap Office Licenses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642909)

Translation: I am a anti-FOSS troll. I spread lies and FUD.

Re:Cheap Office Licenses (1)

aardvarkjoe (156801) | about 8 months ago | (#44643005)

So they factored in the costs for extra support, downtime, conversion, training and lower productivity, and the end sum is a 12,50 change in price per pc.

That's not what the article or the summary said. It said "The migration will save the government some 1.5 million euro per year on proprietary software licences."

Now, one thing that's obviously being missed in the (1.5 million euro / 120k PCs) calculation is that the article says that it's 1.5 million euro per year. I'm not sure how they would do their licensing (if they pay Microsoft a yearly fee of 1.5 million for all their office installations, or if that's the average cost of required upgrades each year, or whatever), but obviously you can't just assume that they get each copy of office for 12.50.

Re:Cheap Office Licenses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44643269)

Of course you can.

As a normal company you can become MS Partner and then you are entitled to packages.
We as a very small SW Company for ex have the Actionpack Design & Development that costs us €350 a year.
That comes with 10 Windows, 10 Office Pro+, 3 MSDN Pro and some other licenses.

If you are a governmental institution you get cheaper solutions.

Re:Cheap Office Licenses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44643429)

Holy troll Batman... "unions start complaining"... "Open source office suites are like Chinese knock-offs"...

Why don't you come back with a follow-up article in 3 years proving this statement?

Re:Cheap Office Licenses (4, Interesting)

Lord Apathy (584315) | about 8 months ago | (#44644085)

Open source office suites are like Chinese knock-offs. They may look similar to the real deal from the outside but once you start working intensively with them they start to degrade quickly.

Not really. I've used MSOffice for over 10 years. I've done so much technical writing that I know pretty much everything there is to know about MS word. Not so much with excel and the rest of the package.

Since I do my work in linux I decided to make the switch to libre office six months ago. With 3.x I was less than impressed, I even stated so a few times on /. posts related. Even saying that libre office will never compete with ms office in the work place.

With the release of 4.1, I'm not so sure any more, at least where it comes to writer vs word. There are still come compatibility issues between the two that needs to be worked out, especially in the area of file compatibilities. With that being said there is a lot of power in writer.

When I'm being forced to work in word now I'm actually wishing I could be back in writer. Over all I like the interface to libre writer better than I do the ribbons in word. I'm at the point in my life where I'm thinking about my next career choice. Making a serous attempt at writing is possibility. I've already chosen to do most of my writing in libre write.

While libre office still has a way to go before it can take the crown from office. But if I was office I would be looking over my shoulder because I'm starting to think libre office might pull it off.

Re:Cheap Office Licenses (1)

chipschap (1444407) | about 8 months ago | (#44648035)

This is the usual argument, which has two points. (1) There is (are) killer feature(s) in Word that Writer doesn't have. (2) I need Word compatibility.

As to item 1, I won't presume to tell you what features you need. If there is something in Word that Writer lacks, and you can't do your work without it, then your choice is made for you. (At times, of course, those important features either do really exist in Writer or are not truly mission critical, but I can't judge that for someone else.)

As to item 2, compatibility, that is a real issue in organizations that do any amount of exchanging documents outside of their own sphere of control. Writer compatibility has vastly improved, but I know there are issues and I know sending a PDF is not always an option (and you probably won't get the other party to switch to Writer).

That said, as a retiree (without an office to deal with, praise heaven), I go with LO at home because it runs on Linux and it has no cost. I do run into compatibility issues at times but I just live with them. It isn't worth a few hundred dollars and the unpleasant experience of working on a Windows system.

Re:Cheap Office Licenses (1)

tibit (1762298) | about 8 months ago | (#44644701)

So they factored in the costs for extra support, downtime, conversion, training and lower productivity

Wait, aren't those the usual costs you have while employing career bureaucrats anyway, whether they actually do anything "useful" or not? I mean, if you really have employees so useless that they need extra support and training, and suffer from lower productivity just by switching to LibreOffice, then what the fuck are you complaining about? You chose to hire those people, right?

Re:Cheap Office Licenses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642973)

The NSA?

Re:Cheap Office Licenses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44643565)

Yes .. before in malaysia teacher got price around 8 dollar per office license. This come after staroffice fiasco to moved in
http://www.linuxtoday.com/developer/2002100900926NWSWPB .. Microsoft ehm ehm continue till now 8 dollar something teacher edition.

Re:Cheap Office Licenses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44644857)

Yes, the Microsoft Home Use Program has approx. this price.
http://www.microsofthup.com

Hosting (-1, Offtopic)

ukashdes (3027415) | about 8 months ago | (#44642397)

Kendinize ait bir web siteniz olsun istiyor ve bunun için ne yapacanz bilmiyorsanz www.ilgiweb.com [ilgiweb.com] adresi sizlere yardmc olacaktr. Uzun süredir kalitesi ile ön planda olan hizmetlerimiz dorultusunda internet üzerinden bir siteye sahip olmak isteyenlere oldukça özel frsatlar sunuyoruz. Amacmz bu vds [ilgiweb.com] konuda teknolojinin insanlara sunduu olanaklar en iyi ekilde sizlere ulatrabilmektir. Bu konuda oldukça uygun olan fiyat seçeneklerimiz ile ihtiyacnz olan içerik paketlerini seçerek kendi sitenizi kurabilirsiniz. Hizmetlerimiz arasnda hosting [ilgiweb.com] gibi oldukça kaliteli ve zengin içerikli paketlerimiz bulunmaktadr. Sitemize gelerek bu konuda detayl inceleme yapabilir ve kararnz verebilirsiniz. Son derece önem verdiimiz müterilerimizin memnuniyeti bizler için oldukça önemlidir. Bu nedenle alt yapmzn salam olmasna ve sizlerin bu alandaki ihtiyaçlarn en iyi ekilde karlamak için elimizden geleni yapmaktayz. Aklnza taklan sorular için sitemizin canl destek birimi ile irtibata geçebilirsiniz. Sanal sunucu ve domain konusundaki ihtiyaçlarnz için sitede yer alan oldukça ekonomik paketleri inceleyerek kararnz verebilirsiniz. nternet üzerinden yapacanz ilerin daha kaliteli ve istediiniz boyutta olmasn istiyorsanz hizmetlerimizden yararlanabilirsiniz. Bu konuda sizlere en iyi ekilde yardmc olmak ve ihtiyaçlarnza karlk verebilmek en önemli amaçlarmz arasnda yer almaktadr.

Ah yeah, the Spanish... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642693)

... guiding stars for the rest of Europe... ah no wait, they're not...

They need to make a substantial contribution now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44642933)

Simply switching to free software without making a substantial contribution (from an consumer point of view) is a very bad idea. These free software projects need money and developers too. Make a financial contribution to the FSF, projects, and buy free software friendly hardware from vendors whom are making a difference in the quality and level of support like ThinkPenguin.

Re:They need to make a substantial contribution no (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44643479)

Increasing visible public popularity is actually a HUGE contribution.

Shudder (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44643175)

I wonder how many will kill themself having to use LibreOffice. I'd quit my job to safe my life though.

Re:Shudder (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44643695)

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. My boss had a disgusting pimple so I had to quit to avoid suicide.

Drama queen.

Where's Baghdad Rob? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44643433)

We need Rob Weir [slashdot.org] to show up on this post and lament that Valencia is doomed, DOOMED, for using LibreOffice instead of Apache OpenOffice. Since he got howled off lwn.net and Ars.

Wouldn't it be nice . . . (1)

MarkvW (1037596) | about 8 months ago | (#44643577)

Wouldn't it be nice if governments that adopted LibreOffice could devote a small amount of employee resources to giving back to the community. It would be a win-win, I think.

In other news (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44645065)

Millions of federal workers vent frustration and purchase a subscription to office365 due to irritation of using LibreOffice.

-News at 11.

--General Psych. most people believe that it is free that it is either inferior or something is wrong with it.

My frustrations is, maybe due to perception, but LibreOffice does seem to have the same power as MS Excel. I am curious to see what the results will be now that AMD is working with the document foundation on accelerating spreadsheet performance in libreoffice. For now though Libreoffice feels like PSPP. PSPP has a lot of feautures of SPSS but does not have all of them that I need. Same goes for libreoffice: It is nice and works in a pinch but just doesn't quite cut it when compared to word perfect or ms office. If someone would tell me how to enable blue background white text in libreoffice like in word perfect without having to change text and background color manually, that would be a start. I do admit though MS office has removed this feature from office 2007 onward much to chagrin.

Sorry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44646645)

Pretty amazing I find out about this by reading Slashdot. Even more amazing that it happens when both governments in Valencia and Madrid are right wing. But it is pretty obvious that in this "European Union", the only use of a Spanish party getting majority, is in order to break the country. And to make sure they break it, they are forcing Catalunya out, and Scotland.... well, no, if Scotland gets independence is because now the Brithish pirates want to still even the kitchen sink (with good luck).
Please, double your prays for the poor people of Microsoft (I still think there should have been some trying to do things right), as they could be loosing their job (I wonder which other viruses will they make up, besides "text viruses").

Corrupt government, no real savings for citizens (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44647235)

This is one of the spanish regions with the highest government corruption. There will be no savings due to using proprietary software, as the same money will be given to the company that managed the transition.

Anyway, having people exposed to free software is good, even if the initial reasons were bad.

Free suite, propietary formats (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44651809)

I'm from Valencia, so I was expecting some bullshit from our local government.
I'm glad they have switched to LibreOffice, but they still (and will do for ages) "export" their docs in MSOffice formats.
Try this search on google:
site:gva.es filetype:doc

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