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Search For Evi Nemeth Continues

timothy posted about a year ago | from the to-seek-and-to-find dept.

Linux 67

oneiros27 writes "Although the initial search for Evi Nemeth (and some other people who didn't write Unix books) ended, family and friends of the missing crew are funding a private search effort for the crew. They've managed to get more images from DigitalGlobe of the drift area, but now need help looking through the pictures. If you've got some free time, you might be able to help save some lives."

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A Google solvable problem (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44661263)

This is an instance where you would want to have Google and its awesome machine learning and image processing skills to do the work for you. Do an image search for something like 'snake', ignore the pages with the word snake on them so you get only the ones where the Google image processing algorithm finds the subject matter ... You'll find images where you wouldn't recognize theres a snake in the picture if you weren't told.

Its REALLY impressive at this stage of the game how well it works. I'm sure there are others that have good tech, but I've never seen anything at their level.

BitZtream

Re:A Google solvable problem (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44661479)

Maybe not Google, but this task does seem tailor made for automation. Find any colors that are out of place. Find any lines that are at a significantly different angle or of a different length. Use humans to categorize the hits. It's so obvious, I'd be surprised if they aren't doing something along these lines. While I do empathize with them, having humans go through the raw data smacks of wishful thinking. Also, the victims have been missing for over two months. Putting it nicely, the odds do not look good.

Re:A Google solvable problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44788297)

well.. if the NSA and GOV would get off their ass you use the WASP Tech they got for finding here then we google wouldn't have to help..

Re:A Google solvable problem (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44662065)

Also, I want to take the time to come out of the closet. My boyfriend, Jamal, has finally convinced me that there is nothing wrong with receiving a large, black cock up my shitter every night. I am proud to admit for all of the world to hear that my colon is a receptacle for man juice!

BitZtream

Re:A Google solvable problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44703881)

I apologize for my all-too-transparent attempt, above, to misrepresent myself as BitZtream.

I also wish to clarify that the rest of my post was true as stated.

I hope you can find it within yourselves to forgive me, and don't forget to check out my HOST FILES APP, now available for 16-bit Windows!

--Ethanol-fueled

stereo viewing (1)

Mister Liberty (769145) | about a year ago | (#44664973)

Yes, with stereo-viewing two images of same area with identical
magnification taken at different times (or quick shift-viewing).
What's possible in astronomy should be possible on earth.

save some lives? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44661273)

Were they highly trained survivalists? Sorry, but they called off the search for a reason.

Re:save some lives? (5, Insightful)

hawguy (1600213) | about a year ago | (#44661459)

Were they highly trained survivalists? Sorry, but they called off the search for a reason.

They called off the search because statistically it's unlikely that anyone could have survived at sea that long.

But if it were my loved ones, without proof that they died at sea, I'd still hold out the hope that perhaps they washed up on an island somewhere and are living in Gilligan's Island style Tiki huts.

This is a private effort, so you don't have to participate if you don't want to.

Re:save some lives? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44663199)

There are no islands in that region and the weather/water is deadly cold.

Re:save some lives? (1)

yusing (216625) | about a year ago | (#44666645)

It looks as though Earhardt might have washed up on an island somewhere, so yeah, it seems worth holding out hope.

I was just reading the other day about some Japanese guys whose boat was blown out to sea and they eventually wound up in the US. At the time it was illegal to leave Japan, so it was decades before some of them found a safe way back in. Their families were stunned.

Dedication to a book I bought recently (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44661327)

For Jim Gray, wherever he may be

- Principles of Transaction Processing, 2nd Edition, Morgan Kaufman 2009 (Philip Bernstein and Eric Newcomer)

(Gray and Bernstein were leading researchers in the theory of transaction processing)

Two months at sea? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44661361)

If they managed to get into their dinghies and survive that long, it'd be one of the most amazing feats of seamanship... right up there with the lifeboats from the Bounty or those awful voyages where 19th century whalers cannibalized each other.

Re:Two months at sea? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44661393)

Presumably they're hoping that Nemeth and co. are marooned on a small island, like Tom Hanks in "Cast Away". Maybe Evi's volleyball buddy will be dubbed "Dennis".

The southern ocean doesn't take prisoners. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44661433)

You people who imagine anyone from the boat Nemeth was on is still
alive obviously have no idea about the conditions in the southern ocean.

If drowning doesn't kill you, hypothermia will, and if that doesn't kill you,
a few days without fresh water to drink will do the trick.

Unless those on board the boat were able to don survival suits and carried
food and water with them and were able to get into their life raft which may or
may not have deployed such that it could even be used, the chance that anyone
survived is as close to zero as it gets. Sure, it's nice to hope people survived,
but these people are all fish food by now.

Re:The southern ocean doesn't take prisoners. (3, Interesting)

imp (7585) | about a year ago | (#44662123)

The odds are not good, to be true. However, if you ever knew Evi and heard stories from her life, this story will end "and then after X days, they were found having survived using make shift fishing gear and drinking rain water.

The odds are long. However, in the past few years there have been instances of people beating the odds. They survived for 60 or 90 or even 120 days on their life raft after their boat sank. Not many, mind you, but it is possible.

Finally, no wreckage has been found. Usually for these events some wreckage is found. This increases the odds. Not by much.

Looking at the TomNod stuff can't hurt. The worst that would happen is that people waste time looking at snippets of the Tasman Sea rather than watching TV, porn, movies, etc.

Re:The southern ocean doesn't take prisoners. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44662593)

I'm still looking for Elvis!

Re:The southern ocean doesn't take prisoners. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44662775)

long term survivors of have a couple things in common: island chains nearby and water temperature close to body temperature.

it's sad, but the folks on that boat don't have either of those things going for them. no amount of smarts or strength are going to help you with hypothermia and lack of fresh water.

Re:The southern ocean doesn't take prisoners. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44662881)

You people who imagine anyone from the boat Nemeth was on is still
alive obviously have no idea about the conditions in the southern ocean.

If drowning doesn't kill you, hypothermia will, and if that doesn't kill you,
a few days without fresh water to drink will do the trick.

Unless those on board the boat were able to don survival suits and carried
food and water with them and were able to get into their life raft which may or
may not have deployed such that it could even be used, the chance that anyone
survived is as close to zero as it gets. Sure, it's nice to hope people survived,
but these people are all fish food by now.

OK, so unless she had a reverse osmosis pump and warm clothes, she'd be dead by now. But since the odds are good she had those two items, your entire post is unlikely guesswork.

Re:The southern ocean doesn't take prisoners. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44663077)

Read Unbroken, by Laura Hillenbrand. An amazing story of survival. Twice.

http://www.salon.com/2010/11/15/unbroken/ [salon.com]

Re:The southern ocean doesn't take prisoners. (2)

Jane_Dozey (759010) | about a year ago | (#44668829)

Who says you have to be looking for survivors? Finding bodies in a life raft or even the schooner itself would bring closure to the families. Not knowing what's happened to a loved one can be worse than finding them dead.

I went to CU (4, Informative)

SocietyoftheFist (316444) | about a year ago | (#44661441)

Evi Stopped teaching Unix Sys Admin the semester I took it (you were a good teacher Tor, I just was looking forward to Emi). I remember her smiling at me going through the hallway between classes, funny how I remember that. I think I was a little star struck because she was the equivalent of an A list celebrity in the UNIX world.

Re:I went to CU (3, Insightful)

SocietyoftheFist (316444) | about a year ago | (#44661453)

And Slashdot needs to let you edit after posting...

Re:I went to CU (1)

Raenex (947668) | about a year ago | (#44662961)

And Slashdot needs to let you edit after posting...

No, Slashdot has it right. Editing posts is like trying to edit history, 1984 style.

Re:I went to CU (1)

Immerman (2627577) | about a year ago | (#44663237)

I don't know - an "Oops" button available for a couple minutes probably wouldn't hurt anything, and likely catch 90% of problems that the preview misses (can't tell you how many times I've spotted an error out of the corner of my eye as I click "submit"). Another 1984-proof options would be adding a long-term "postscript" option - several times I've wished I could append corrections to the first post in a large tree when somebody points out a significant error. Or for a more comprehensive option you could invoke strikeout and insertion symbology so that any retroactive editing is obvious.

Re:I went to CU (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44663339)

FWIW most posters have trained themselves to make silent corrections to grammar and spelling and consequently barely notice many errors. For example I had to go back and re-read your first post to find what was wrong.

Of course, there are always the spellcheck and grammar nazis, often found in political boards (as in "Haha you call Politician X an idiot but...")

Re:I went to CU (1)

Immerman (2627577) | about a year ago | (#44664369)

Actually I wasn't the GGP, just thought I'd chime in. I've got to agree though, and I largely ignore both obvious typos and grammar nazis (unless they invite a humorous response). Occasionally though I've forgotten something like a critical "not" that fundamentally changes the nature of an argument, and it would be really nice to be able to at least attach a corrective addendum.

Re:I went to CU (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44664335)

Since this post is modded up I'll suggest a new protocol for correcting summaries (not posts). Editors should freely and silently make minor spelling and grammatical corrections to summaries at any time, including those pointed out by posters. Anything substantive, which could change the meaning of the summary, should be corrected with a revision note (this part of the protocol is already in place, but it's not used as often as it should).

This would make the site more readable. Grammar and spellcheck on posts by readers are less important, because these types of errors are commonplace on Internet forums.

asdrfgafg (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44661447)

asdfgasdfgasdf

I win.

Wow, talk about freaky coincidence (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44661455)

I followed the link and found her book on amazon. On the cover of the book: a sailing ship with stuff floating around it.

Did they pack a 3D printer? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44661535)

Then they're fine, they can just replicate everything they need.

Re:Did they pack a 3D printer? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44662601)

Only if they find a currant bush with enough juice.

maps or images? (3, Insightful)

donaggie03 (769758) | about a year ago | (#44661539)

I don't get it. The tomnod page seems to shows a map of the area, not satellite images. How are you supposed to search for anything in an empty pale blue picture?

who knows (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44661649)

people are fucking morons. hey lets build a site that doesnt work on firefox, with no diagnostic tools to tell you its broken.

for money!

Re: who knows (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44664687)

Im pretty sure I found a life raft, but I couldnt figure out the ui to let anyone know..

Re: who knows (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44668029)

I don't know if it is a raft but I found a light spot indicating something other then just water (that or a single wave breaking about the size of a pencil head in the middle of a vast blue ocean). I couldn't find anything either. I was hoping to be able to zoom in on it but whatever I guess.

Re:maps or images? (1)

DrVomact (726065) | about a year ago | (#44661725)

Did you manage to log in? I tried, but couldn't get an account. I gave it an email address (one of my throwaways, natch) and password, and it did nothing but ask me to log in again. No email seems to have been sent. The login I had created didn't work, and trying to create one again produced the same non-result. I gave permissions for that web site to run scripts, but there was a lot of other crap that wanted permissions, so for now I'm not bothering.

Re:maps or images? (3, Informative)

Beeftopia (1846720) | about a year ago | (#44661745)

I ignored the login stuff, just clicked through to get to the images. There is a primer on what they're looking for in that initial part, but also some login stuff that I just clicked through. The page initially didn't load once I got to the blank page, but a couple of reloads and it finally loaded and I could start moving the viewfinder through the search area.

Re:maps or images? (1)

imp (7585) | about a year ago | (#44662127)

One set of images is smoothed data. You likely got a frame from that.

Trapped in Antarctica for 19 months (2)

Beeftopia (1846720) | about a year ago | (#44661545)

The HMS Endurance and Shackleton.

The Endurance became trapped on January 19, 1915. The crew was rescued, after Shackleton and his lieutenants' heroics, on August 30, 1916. Nineteen months in Antarctica.

Re:Trapped in Antarctica for 19 months (2)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about a year ago | (#44662483)

They still had their boat, and supplies, and the crew were all highly trained in polar survival.

Re:Trapped in Antarctica for 19 months (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44665569)

"The Terror" (Dan Simmons) is a histori-horror about this adventure. He painstaking details many of the workings from the logs of the ship. They had supplies, wheat, and sometimes hunted game to eat. The canned supplies were poorly canned, making many of them poisonous after part of the journey was completed. But they did have the ship to live inside, and they had ways of heating in the interior for most of the time.

It's not really a good comparison to a boat lost on the seas.

i just want to help (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44661553)

is it just me or is anyone else having a lot of trouble with the site. i cant seem to get it to load properly in both firefox and chrome

Re:i just want to help (1)

Beeftopia (1846720) | about a year ago | (#44661731)

It might take a try or two to get it to load correctly. After a couple-three tries, it worked correctly for me and I spent about 30 minutes perusing the area. Saw one unusually red spot but it could have been a trick of light. I marked two "items of interest" in about 10+ square kilometer area. The more votes an item gets the more likely it is to be something.

Re:i just want to help (1)

recrudescence (1383489) | about a year ago | (#44662367)

but who sees this aggregate result? I didn't find a way to do so, all I can do is share the map link

Am I the only one who... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44661681)

...misread the title as: "Search for Evil Nemesis Continues" ?

Re:Am I the only one who... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44662165)

No.

Re:Am I the only one who... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44703929)

Yes.

Wish you could pre-load sets of images (2)

SuperKendall (25149) | about a year ago | (#44661765)

I've been looking for a while just to help, but it would be tons more efficient if I could download about 100 square KM of images at a time - it only takes a second to tell a page has no items of interest, but many seconds to load each movement either to a new area or to scroll the minim-map any direction.

I could probably have searched the same area in a tenth the time if the transition between areas was seamless, which would enable me to allocate time to search a much larger area.

Re:Wish you could pre-load sets of images (1)

Moof123 (1292134) | about a year ago | (#44662025)

Agreed, too slow, too many bland blue pages. At the very least someone with a half a days time should program up a simple algorithm to only display things that are not solid boring blue.

Re:Wish you could pre-load sets of images (1)

c0lo (1497653) | about a year ago | (#44662069)

I've been looking for a while just to help, but it would be tons more efficient if I could download about 100 square KM of images at a time - it only takes a second to tell a page has no items of interest, but many seconds to load each movement either to a new area or to scroll the minim-map any direction.

Ummm... are you sure?
To my mind, at a minimum of 10ft (3.3 m) size of the raft, one'd be looking for objects about 5-7 pixels to my estimate (about 1/6 of the 20m scale unit shown below).
No seriosly, am I doing wrongs searching for so small "redish" objects? (what if it wet and, by a misfortune, strongly reflecting at the moment the photo was taken... so that only a small number of pixels would show red all the rest being toward white - high value/small saturation?)

Quite sure (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | about a year ago | (#44662719)

To my mind, at a minimum of 10ft (3.3 m) size of the raft, one'd be looking for objects about 5-7 pixels to my estimate

That's about right.

No seriosly, am I doing wrongs searching for so small "redish" objects?

I think so as bright sunlight on red could easily wash out to white, just look for anything around the size you mentioned that looks more "solid".

I flagged two items that were about two to three pixels wide, but looked slightly more solid than the other whitecaps you could see at times.

As I said it takes only a moment to see if the page has anything interesting or not, most are quite flat with elements only a pixel or two large, or else regular repeating wave patterns where it would be easy to discern a break in the pattern.

I tried to help... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44662099)

But then the tool blocked me out and required me to create an account. I don't want to create an account. I've got too many accounts already.

If people wanted to do a "good thing" they wouldn't insist on commercializing it.

Re:I tried to help... (2)

recrudescence (1383489) | about a year ago | (#44662383)

True, that's probably why there's a Sign in as a Guest link right below the username/password fields ...

Possible hits (1)

Beeftopia (1846720) | about a year ago | (#44662199)

Possible sail? (4 inches from right, 2 inches from top): http://tomnod.com/nod/challenge/ninarescue2/map/207355 [tomnod.com]

Re:Possible hits (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44662429)

Nothing looks promising from my perspective

oops (1)

vomitology (2780489) | about a year ago | (#44662323)

Not to make light of the situation, but did anyone else glance at the headline and see 'Search for Evil Nemesis Continues?'

How do you share the result?! (1)

recrudescence (1383489) | about a year ago | (#44662359)

How do you actually get other people to see what you've found? Is it built in the tool somehow? Shouldn't I then be able to see other people's finds? Or is the whole of slashdot meant to start posting random map links to each other?
Anyway for what it's worth, what do you think of this? http://tomnod.com/nod/challenge/ninarescue2/map/207268 [tomnod.com] oblong structure around 70ft with a homogeneously white (eye-of-faith-reddish?) 10-20ft structure slightly left and above it? Top mid-right of the map (on my portrait-oriented monitor)

Re:How do you share the result?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44662435)

I see nothing interesting there

Re:How do you share the result?! (1)

Reziac (43301) | about a year ago | (#44670001)

I couldn't get the site to play nice, but the red blob looks like a dead whale to me.

Computer vision? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44662737)

Having worked recently a bit with computer vision techniques, I wonder - are there no automated tools ready for this task?
Looking into the site I see the first few tiles are really just empty ocean, should be not too complicated to automatically filter away these and only present interesting tiles to users?
Especially, finding missing people on the sea with satellite imagery is probably no new task, is there really no software ready for this?
To my knowledge, aerial photographs have always been a major tool in millitary reconnaissance since the 60s or so, surely someone somewhere put some work in to automated analysis of such photographs.

This is stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44662921)

Is this really the state of the art in search and rescue? This tool is terrible. There should be some false positives built in at least to keep people interested like they do with search dogs. Make it more like a game if you're going to ask for volunteers. No zoom capabilities. No perspective. How the hell can you tell what you're really looking for with no sense of scale? The tutorial is awful and doesn't accurately depict scale. No independence to search certain grids. It should start on a real raft or boat then suggest you to jump to a spot that no one has covered yet. No Access to the raw data of the search. Tide tables, drift rates, weather reports, etc should be built in and accessible for those able to understand them. Some idea of what has been at least looked at once already would help. With the ability to look again or not in the users hands. And agonizingly slow load times for images. That's ridiculous in the age of google maps. Also they should have used unix ;)

Re:This is stupid (1)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | about a year ago | (#44663011)

It's not claimed to be the state of the art, and yeah, it is a bit crude. I'd at least like to see the ability to shift colour palettes and adjust contrast - zoom too would be nice. I suppose they're probably not looking for detailed forensics here - more a just a lot of skimming, with the idea that possible leads could be more closely explored. On that basis, to what end would tide tables, drift rates and weather reports add value?

I'd hope in the background that they would be cataloguing possible matches, which would then be randomly slipped in to grids being searched by other users. How do you know that this isn't automatically being done in the background - might be an interesting question to pose to them. Giving the user a "click here to look at new stuff" wouldn't be useful, as most people would probably just click that anyway. Better to have an algorithm feed content based on the needs of the project.

I agree though that turning this in to a game could be useful. Adding some false positives could be useful and would reduce the monotony - so long as the user is told on selection that they have found a test image. To some extent they are turning it in to a game by awarding the user with progress reports based on areas covered. Slow load times might be due to an influx of Slashdotters. Loaded fine for me, and where it took a few seconds to load it was not a concern. Are you actually looking at the images or just clicking through? If the former, then you're probably spending much more time viewing an image than you are waiting for one to load.

Oh (1)

Old Wolf (56093) | about a year ago | (#44673413)

Oh, this is the Nina story. Here in NZ we've been getting this in the news over the last few months, but they never mentioned that anybody 'famous' might be on board. I'd just assumed it was another recreational fishing boat that went missing.

Re:Oh (1)

Old Wolf (56093) | about a year ago | (#44673423)

Also they didn't mention that internet users are helping the search.

Distressed ships should come with Google Maps (1)

bjoswald (2837207) | about a year ago | (#44681779)

I really, really hope they find them, dead or alive. At least there would be some closure. Just going missing all this time is like a splinter that won't heal, you know?
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