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Windows 8.1 RTM Trickling Out, With Start Menu and Boot-to-Desktop

timothy posted 1 year,8 days | from the year-of-the-windows-desktop dept.

Windows 496

poofmeisterp writes "It's about time. Windows 8.1 will be released to end users in October, and RTM is being released now: 'Windows 8.1, codenamed "Blue," is introducing a number of changes designed to make the new operating system more palatable to current Windows users. Windows 8.1 is adding a Start Button, a boot-straight-to-desktop option; the ability to unpin all Metro apps; built-in tutorials; an improved Windows Store and a host of other consumer- and business-focused features. Microsoft launched its one and only Windows 8.1 consumer preview test build in late June.'"

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496 comments

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Too little too late (5, Informative)

Teresita (982888) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669183)

The start button takes you from the Desktop right back to the Metro screen, which is what pisses everyone off in the first place.

Re:Too little too late (0, Flamebait)

Gumbercules!! (1158841) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669213)

Thanks to Penny Arcade I thought the same thing - however its not true. I did download the community release and you can indeed have an old school start menu again.

Re:Too little too late (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669239)

How? I couldn't find it. Not that I had to care.

Re:Too little too late (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669283)

You care fucker. You care because you're a cunt who likes to shit on Windows but you read all the articles and you know all of the releases. What you don't know is how to get a computer to do what you want it to do. Just another Slashfag who can't admit that he's a know nothing. If you really hated Windows and MS that much you wouldn't even bother with this article let alone the postings about it.
 
Have a good day trying to cry your way through life like a pathetic little cunt.

Re:Too little too late (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669337)

I'd like to apologize for the above hateful parent post that I made.

My sweet darling goat with which I was intimate for the past 10 years died today and I'm still coming to terms with the fact that I'll have to fuck the pig from now on.

Again I'm sorry and have a great day.

Re:Too little too late (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669377)

Can I just say that he is not going to be fucking me at all. Even though I am really desperate, I wouldn't let that moron stick his warty, pus-ridden, disease encrusted cock anywhere near me.

He can go fuck himself.

Pig.

Re:Too little too late (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669465)

Too much anger will make you ill. You need to relax more.

Re:Too little too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669259)

odd I did too download the beta, and it goes to metro... in fact RTFA

Re:Too little too late (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669281)

True, you can - if you choose one and go install it. You cannot have an old school start menu direct from Microsoft though. There are certainly 3rd party implementations that are pretty good.

Re:Too little too late (4, Informative)

roc97007 (608802) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669511)

Thanks to Penny Arcade I thought the same thing - however its not true. I did download the community release and you can indeed have an old school start menu again.

Only for certain rather bizarre values of "old school start menu". The icon takes you back to the start screen, which is precisely, absolutely, not the point of having a start button. You cannot change this without third party software, which, given that choice, makes Win8 a corporate non-player. Win7 will have to last us until Microsoft gets a clue.

Re:Too little too late (3, Insightful)

hedwards (940851) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669595)

Maybe with Ballmer on his way out, there's hope for MS to actually start producing decent products again. Win 7 was pretty mediocre, but after XP and Vista that was a serious step in the right direction. Then they came out with Win 8 which through all of that progress in the trash because they wanted the same interface to work on tablets, forgetting that few desktops have a touch interface.

OTOH, Ballmer deserves an award from Linus for doing more than anybody else to popularize Linux. Without his dedication to incompetent software design, many people wouldn't have known that Linux existed and that it's actually a viable desktop for most purposes.

Re:Too little too late (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669297)

Why would I be pissed off by something I can easily change and fix myself with no particular trouble?

That'd be like being pissed off with Gnome or KDE or XFCE because they don't do things perfectly the way I want, when I can easily find a way to change it to how I would like it.

If you know, I don't sit on my ass and whine like a spoiled brat who can't take any initiative.

See this is what I don't understand about the crowd here, they apparently take it as given that this is a problem, but never take the time to consider that they can get Start8, Classic8 or any of a dozen other tools to fit their desires, which is more confusing when it's a crowd that it should be able to take proactive steps rather than sit on their asses and whine.

Re:Too little too late (4, Informative)

J. J. Ramsey (658) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669349)

You can fix it yourself if you administer the machine. However, at work, people often can't do that because they are--rightfully--not given the access rights to do so.

Re:Too little too late (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669371)

Oh goodness me, you mean I'd be pissed at an inconsiderate administrator then?

Like the one who refused permission for me to install a program essential to doing my job?

Well, fuck, I should blame that on Microsoft too! It's Bill Gate's fault that he didn't make a system so insecure I could do it anyway!

Re:Too little too late (2)

hedwards (940851) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669607)

How much is MS paying you to shill for them?

The point here is that this is supposed to be a user setting that individual users can change to suit their preferred method of interacting with the computer. Not all settings should be locked down, some settings should be available to change by the user.

Re:Too little too late (4, Interesting)

J. J. Ramsey (658) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669727)

I'd say that the point is more that Microsoft took an interface that worked fine, namely the Start Menu, and replaced it with something that, for the most part, did not work as well. Third-party tools to customize an interface should be niceties, not a cure for someone else's screw-up.

Re:Too little too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669737)

Sorry dude, but you've got to answer my question about YOUR bias first!

Why are you so adamantly frenetic over something you could fix easily yourself, when that's torn down, the response is about an administratively locked down machine, when that's a problem that could extend to a desktop background as much as anything else?

There is no reason an administrator couldn't make available any number of such options, if that was desired, so again, null point, find a real complaint.

Re:Too little too late (5, Insightful)

roc97007 (608802) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669421)

> If you know, I don't sit on my ass and whine like a spoiled brat who can't take any initiative.

You don't get it. (1) Yes I can fix it. But why should I buy something that I need to beat into submission, when what I have works fine? (2) Yes I can fix it, but the 10,000+ users in my company, most of whom have other jobs than being a computer geek, would struggle with it, and I'd lose my job if I foisted that off on them.

Re:Too little too late (3, Insightful)

AmiMoJo (196126) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669539)

Name one OS that is just right out of the box and needs no tweaks. Linux always needs fiddling with (that's why you love it) and MacOS's two-finger scroll scrolls the wrong way by default.

At least with Windows 8 you can use AD to roll out suitable settings for everyone in one hit. I'm sure you can do the same thing with Linux/MacOS somehow too.

Re:Too little too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669545)

Downloading and double clicking the installer for Classic Shell hardly constitutes beating into submission. Yes, it really is that easy.

There has never been a single operating system that I didn't have to spend some amount of time configuring to my liking. This is no different.

Re:Too little too late (3, Interesting)

Truekaiser (724672) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669731)

It is actually worse than that.
It's a third party program, not intended for corporate use, put on over 10k computers.
That is several dozen if not more different hardware configurations. The program is bound to malfunction on some of them.
This is on top of the fact you still have to somehow 'train' all those 10k+ people on how to use it too.

Re:Too little too late (4, Insightful)

GrumpySteen (1250194) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669789)

I'd like you to replace your computer with this laptop. The case is an ugly mix of blocky colors and they keyboard is a 5x4 array of keys the size of business cards, but there's a pair of left right buttons that lets you scroll through the list of keys you're used to having. Trust me... it's a much better way of accessing the keys on the keyboard than the previous way which put them all in front of you at once.

If you aren't happy with it not working quite the way your old one worked, you can always go find a new keyboard and install it to make it work the way you want it to.

And if you're complain about paying for product that doesn't do what you want it to do and is demonstrably worse than the one it replaced until you spend the time and effort to fix the problems we designed into it, it's purely because you're sitting on your ass and whining about it like a spoiled brat who can't take any initiative, RIGHT?

Re:Too little too late (1)

Cinder6 (894572) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669321)

Not everyone. I've found at least one person aside from myself who prefers the new start screen over the old menu. More icons + better grouping options means a better system, IMO. Sure, it could look nicer, but that's not really the point. At least 8.1 lets you use your desktop wallpaper for the start screen background, so the transition isn't as jarring.

Re:Too little too late (0)

Barlo_Mung_42 (411228) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669355)

I could see why it was an issue for people in win8. The 8.1 start screen is *much* better. Just a little thing like letting you keep the desktop background makes it a much less jarring experience.

Re:Too little too late (5, Insightful)

bryanbrunton (262081) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669467)

The old menu allows quick access to the majority of system functions. It did this with a minimum of clicks, mouse movement and extraneous information.

If I am working, I don't want to see weather information, stock quotes and baseball scores. Sure, you can remove those tiles from the start screen, but then that defeats the purpose of having that information available when I am not working.

I actually might enjoy the start screen when I am not working, but that goes back to the core malfunction of the start screen: it is mixing core functional areas:

(1) Program/System/Settings Launcher
(2) Information Provider

Why is so freaking difficult for the so-called User Interface experts at Microsoft to understand that this is a colossal fuck up to jam these two key functional areas onto the Start Screen?

Re:Too little too late (3, Informative)

EdZ (755139) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669797)

The 'minimum effort' way to access programs, control panel snap-ins, etc hasn't changed since Vista: press the start key on your keyboard, type the first, occasionally second (and possibly third, for lesser-used programs) characters of the name, then hit enter. If you using the hunt-around-some-menus technique you might experience a slight speed-up or slow-down when going from start menu to start screen, depending on how organised you are (or how resistant to change you are), but for anyone using windows in a sane manner the difference is nonexistant.

Re:Too little too late (4, Insightful)

roc97007 (608802) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669571)

Whatever products Microsoft craps out, there are always a handful of people somewhere who against all reason like it. There were a handful of people who liked Microsoft Bob. A company I used to work for actually started rolling out Windows ME, based on user trials, although they realized their mistake and pulled it back a month later. I have a friend who still has a laptop running Vista, and she's fine with it, although whenever something goes wrong or needs to change, (which is annoyingly often) she always brings it to me.

So yes, I'm sure there are one or two people out there who like the retro-8bit-arcade look-and-feel that is the Metro interface. Maybe it reminds them of when they were playing Space Invaders on the cocktail table machine while sipping their wine spritzers and listening to a bad cover of "Shadow Dancing". People like a lot of things, for a lot of reasons. But to have a successful business, you need a large enough number of people liking the product to meet investor expectations. Doesn't seem likely.

Re:Too little too late (3, Insightful)

hedwards (940851) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669649)

Vista wasn't particularly bad. It mostly had serious bugs on launch and poor driver support. But, the system itself mainly suffered from the way the UAC worked.

That being said, it wasn't a particularly good OS, Win 7 is quite a bit better, and it wasn't particularly competitive with what *BSD and Linux were doing at the same time, apart from having better vendor support. In terms of the merits though, like all other MS OSes of the last decade, it's markedly behind the competition without any compelling reason for existing other than people target it for their software development.

Re:Too little too late (1)

PCM2 (4486) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669635)

At least 8.1 lets you use your desktop wallpaper for the start screen background, so the transition isn't as jarring.

I bought this argument until I started using it. Then I realized that I always run with my main windows maximized or tiled so that I never actually even see the desktop most of the time. So the transition is every bit as jarring, because now when I hit the Windows key I see something that looks like my desktop but none of my stuff is on it.

Re:Too little too late (1)

Alwin Henseler (640539) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669363)

*citation needed*

How do you know? Did you personally try the exact build the article talks about? Or even a later build? Not saying you're talking nonsense, but the article states: ".. which means almost no one outside (other than OEMs) would get officially released Windows 8.1 bits until October 18". So it would be good to know whether your description is based on inside developer access, a leaked build, hearsay, or assumption based on an earlier released build.

Beside that: if it's in response to customer demand, what would be the point of adding back in a start button that does something other than what users expect from a start button?

Re:Too little too late (1)

something_wicked_thi (918168) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669581)

The linked article refers to a start button, not a start menu. Furthermore, it would be odd indeed for Microsoft to add new features between the preview builds and the final build. The point of the preview builds, after all, is to test the real build. Adding a start menu at this juncture would be extremely strange from a software qualification perspective.

Also, if Windows 8.1 were adding a start menu, you'd think Microsoft would say so in their Windows 8.1 feature list.

Furthermore, from the Microsoft Windows 8.1 Product Guide:

With new desktop enhancements, including the new Start button, workers can easily transition between the Start screen and the desktop. IT professionals can also customize the Start button to open the Apps view, which provides a complete list of installed apps. This list can be reordered by category, date, or name, and desktop apps can appear at the front of the list. Windows 8.1 can also boot right to the desktop. In fact, you can start directly in any view– the Start screen, Apps view, the desktop, or even a single app.

Note that Apps view is not the start menu. Rather, it's the Start Screen's Apps screen. I.e. this [extremetech.com] .

Re:Too little too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669469)

You know what is the funniest thing about MS fucking up the start button? Chrome OS has a start button, that right there should have been a clue to MS asshats that the feature is beyond required.

Re:Too little too late (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669653)

Sounds like microsoft is copying gnome, good luck with that...

Its dead Jim! (5, Insightful)

sinij (911942) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669189)

Start working on Windows 9, you won't redeem this one so late in the game.

Re:Its dead Jim! (1)

TemperedAlchemist (2045966) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669203)

Yeah I agree.

I'll keep using windows 7 in the meantime.

Re:Its dead Jim! (1)

chaosdivine69 (1456649) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669261)

I'll be joining you on the wait train while staying with Windows 7. Windows 8 is still a bust in my opinion. Hopefully once Balmer goes once and for all, someone with some real leadership and innovation will part the seas, walk on water and pull rainbows and unicorns out of his ass...

Re:Its dead Jim! (1)

mrclisdue (1321513) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669383)

I...and pull rainbows and unicorns out of his ass...

Does that mean that these particular unicorns would be gay, since they're up his ass...and with rainbows, no less?

It just gets curiouser and curiouser.

cheers,

Re:Its dead Jim! (2)

sixsixtysix (1110135) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669447)

obviously, it would depend on the gender of the unicorn

Re:Its dead Jim! (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669269)

When you're done GNU/Linux is here for you to upgrade to.

GNU/Linux forced on XP users (2, Insightful)

tuppe666 (904118) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669455)

When you're done GNU/Linux is here for you to upgrade to.

It has been marked flamebait, which is kind of strange considering users are migrating on the Desktop to GNU/Linux(For want of a name) Chrome and Android (seriously!?), the trend is small, but noticeable. Apple is having its own problem on the Desktop.

The bottom line is this version Metro is going to be Microsoft's OS offering those hostages of XP, end of Line only months away. I have to say the timing of Balmers departure looks almost as convenient as Bill (Fuck your charity) Gates (I don't need to pay taxes I have a charity) exit.

Re:Its dead Jim! (1)

roc97007 (608802) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669471)

When you're done GNU/Linux is here for you to upgrade to.

The only reason I'm still on Windows is that the Adobe suite runs on it. Adobe, port to Linux!

Re:Its dead Jim! (1)

hedwards (940851) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669671)

I have XP running in a Virtualbox for that, and probably in the near future, I'll have my copy of 7 running in a VM.

And yeah, Adobe applications have always been the main reason to stay with MS. Fortunately, you now have a properly functioning flash plug in, but I have yet to get Adobe Digital Editions to work on Linux.

Re:Its dead Jim! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669585)

lol, linux. it runs absolutely nothing, but at least you can sit around doing nothing, content in your open sourced smugness.

Re:Its dead Jim! (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669615)

On the contrary, there is productivity, development, and media production software out there. You just have to look further than adobe/microsoft/autodesk.com. I know it's tough for you, being of the picosecond attention span generation, but it is possible. Give it a try someday.

Jim, he's dead. (2)

flyingfsck (986395) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669207)

Sometimes, the doctor turned the words around and with Windows, adding a start button that turns the desktop around back to the Metro zombie screen isn't going to help.

Re:Jim, he's dead. (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669553)

There is a real start menu available as an option too now. It's exactly the same as the Windows 7 one as far as I can tell.

Re:Its dead Jim! (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669601)

As I look around I discover that I have no Microsoft products in my house anymore, other than some old XP Pro (SP3 baby!) disks (which I plan to use in a pinch if I have to). Honestly I'd like to _see_ Windows 9, but probably just to have it's flaws in my arsenal of MS jokes/complaints. In the past, when Microsoft unveils it's new products, it's similar to my 5-yo daughter dressing herself. Things are on, but in the wrong place, sorta matches, but looks soo cute.

Still missing an option.. (1)

zuralin (462240) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669191)

How about an option to disable Metro completely? Opening the same jpeg in Paint versus Metro takes about 1/10th the time. Metro is not an improvement!

Re:Still missing an option.. (2)

Teresita (982888) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669211)

Opening the same jpeg in Paint versus Metro takes about 1/10th the time.

Yeah, but all you can do in Paint is draw Hitler mustaches on supermodels and junk.

Re:Still missing an option.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669233)

Just stop using Metro apps and treat the Start Screen like a Start Menu. Not hard to do.

Re:Still missing an option.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669257)

They went back to roots of Windows 3.1, simplicity, because that was their last all in one desktop-tablet-phone OS.

Re:Still missing an option.. (2, Informative)

jfdavis668 (1414919) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669287)

Sorry, but Windows 8 looks more like Windows 1 than 3.1. Windows 1 was useless, since there were no applications. Sound familiar?

Re:Still missing an option.. (1)

Cinder6 (894572) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669299)

I know it's not exactly what you want, but you can still specify a default app for files, same as you always could.

Re:Still missing an option.. (2)

PCM2 (4486) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669715)

I know it's not exactly what you want, but you can still specify a default app for files, same as you always could.

Actually, it's not quite the same as you always could. Unless you explicitly right-click a file and choose "Open with...", double-clicking an unregistered file type gets you a new, Metro-ized "Choose a program" menu that doesn't fit with the rest of the desktop look and feel and it requires more clicks to get the job done.

Don't care (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669195)

Still using Stardock's Start8.

Missing feature? (-1, Troll)

Type44Q (1233630) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669231)

Giving me an uninstall feature and I might consider it. ;)

Re:Missing feature? (1, Funny)

udippel (562132) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669517)

Giving me an uninstall feature and I might consider it. ;)

Try ubuntu.com.

TPM (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669235)

Ahh... Windows 8.1. The one requiring a "Trusted Computing" TPM in the PC to get a Window certification.

Thanks Microsoft - I really want a hardware dongle in the machine to enforce DRM and ensure that I never really own the machine as I don't have the keys to it. Cheers.

P.S. How's that arrangement with the NSA coming BTW?

Re:TPM (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669483)

Ahh... Windows 8.1. The one requiring a "Trusted Computing" TPM in the PC to get a Window certification.

Thanks Microsoft - I really want a hardware dongle in the machine to enforce DRM and ensure that I never really own the machine as I don't have the keys to it. Cheers.

P.S. How's that arrangement with the NSA coming BTW?

Windows 8.1 does not in any way require a TPM chip. You can verify this yourself by downloading the leaked RTM build (or think about all the PCs out there it wouldn't work on).

Microsoft has announced that 18 months from now, new systems that want to advertise being certified should have TPM2.0. It isn't really related to Windows 8.1 at all (and at the time there is likely Windows 8.2 that is the current version).

We can criticize Microsoft for announcing such a certification requirement coming up in the future, but as a tech site we should be precise about what it is and isn't.

Also, I too support criticizing Microsoft for their relationship with NSA, but it is interesting how many shy away from recognizing Google, Apple and others having the exact same relationship.

Re:TPM (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669631)

look what you did, you said 'dongle'.. now the femitards are gonna get all hot'n'offended

Propaganda (4, Informative)

tuppe666 (904118) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669237)

That is not a start menu. That is a start screen. Who do they think is falling for this nonsense. The reality is, it was never about the start button. It was about taking a usable productive and powerful desktop environment using precision pointing and fast text input, and swapping it out for the weakest of the tablet OS's. In the hope in creating what they call an ecosystem, and moving the computer into an locked down electronic device running Micro$oft Store (The $ stands for money grabbing Monopolist), Rather than compete on price that 70% gross margins still too thin.

The real question is is it iOS, Android, Chrome or GNU/Linux

Re:Propaganda (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669291)

yea would to know who wins out ios or android, since android has always had issues with net downloading of media like streaming tv sites, and of course the 1000 fake download managers that cannot do what programs like getright, IDM and other good dm's do. I hate android for its lack of compatibility with what should be standard stuff.

i hate apple, no phone should cost ANY HUMAN BEING 800$ ...
its insane. and as for linux or chrome, ill believe it when i see flash work in linux as well as gaming, its about time after all the years linux has been around, you would 'THINK' someone wouldve sat down with fukin AMD or Nvidia and worked out some properietary driver schematics. and anyone who disagrees with that cant see the bigger picture, and should realize just how muhc of a monopoly M$ has as well as Apple...

Re:Propaganda (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669429)

I've never had any problems with Flash on Linux, so I don't really know what you're talking about there. As for gaming, the market's been picking up slowly but surely for that; in the past year there've been great strides in gaming on Linux thanks to the efforts of the Humble Bundles and Steam being ported (rather poorly at first) to Linux. I'm not saying that Linux is completely gaming-ready now, but they're definitely trying now.

However, we're still far from the fabled "Year of the Linux Desktop". For example, playing a video or MP3 file is still a hassle on non-Ubuntu systems, you still need the command line to get some of the more difficult programs to work, etc.

Re:Propaganda (1)

jones_supa (887896) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669657)

However, we're still far from the fabled "Year of the Linux Desktop". For example, playing a video or MP3 file is still a hassle on non-Ubuntu systems, you still need the command line to get some of the more difficult programs to work, etc.

We should simply use Ubuntu. While some people here hate Unity or Mr. Shuttleworth, Ubuntu is the most realistic option to make the Year of Linux Desktop. It is easy to use, stuff works, and it has strong support behind it. You can run pretty much all of your open source software on it, and it is officially supported by Steam.

Re:Propaganda (1)

Truekaiser (724672) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669771)

All one has to do with Gentoo to get things to play mp3 out of the box is add 'mp3' to the use flags list.

Re:Propaganda (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669305)

Do you cry this bad when your boyfriend pounds you in the ass too? Little crying cunt bitch.

Re:Propaganda (1)

roc97007 (608802) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669457)

And thus, a new low is reached for Microsoft shills.

Re:Propaganda (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669705)

yo u best not be callin me a cunt bitch . takes one to know one :p lol.

Re:Propaganda (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669743)

Your anger will kill you prematurely if you don't calm down.

Also, you should have used (for example) "whining" instead of "crying" in your second sentence because you had already used "cry" in the first sentence.

Re:Propaganda (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669477)

The real question is is it iOS, Android, Chrome or GNU/Linux

All of the above. iOS for iDevices, Android for non-apple phones & tablets, chrome & OSX for consumer systems, and Linux for business desktops and laptops... or old Win7 licenses for a while.

Start BUTTON minus Start MENU = FAIL (again) (5, Insightful)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669271)

Bottom line? Don't make me learn new interface stuff. I hate it. If it takes a non-zero amount of time for me to think about it, it's not a value, add; it's a value-subtract.

FYI, this goes for ALL software AND programming languages. Adding a few things incrementally to use new features is fine. Changing interfaces or behaviors wholesale isn't.

This should fall into the "common sense" category - something the software industry isn't exactly famous for being able to perceive or implement.

Disclaimer: I write software for a living. Please don't hate me.

Re:Start BUTTON minus Start MENU = FAIL (again) (1)

MpVpRb (1423381) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669369)

Bottom line? Don't make me learn new interface stuff. I hate it

So does my wife, and my brother

They are both smart people, but don't have the time or passion to devote hours to learning all the details about their computers. They have a job to do, and want to do it quickly

I am somewhat in the middle. I like the Office Ribbon. It seems like a real improvement

But, changes based on "fashion" suck. I don't want my UI to look "fresh and new", I want it to work well, and be efficient to use for a power user

Re:Start BUTTON minus Start MENU = FAIL (again) (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669529)

urine idjit :
IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T 'FIX' IT.

not a win fanboi in the least, but win7 HAS BEEN stable, reliable, and WORKS: NO NEED TO 'FIX' IT.
win8 is NOT an 'improvement' in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM, they 'fixed' shit that didn't need fixing for the sake of IMPOSING THEIR walled jail, er, garden...

and, yes, i've used both (sure, i'm just a dumb user, not a hot shot nerd-king like you, but that is 99% of us users), and win8 can suck my butthole, for all the 'good' it does me...

Misleading headline (5, Insightful)

onyxruby (118189) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669275)

Please rewrite headline, it is misleading. There is a world of difference between the Start "Menu" and the Start "Button". 8.1 forces you back into metro through the Start Button and doesn't resolve people issues in the slightest. Metro is still forced on you and it is still wholly unsuitable to the enterprise. While Microsoft at least listened to people about boot to desktop, they showed continued contempt for their customer base by refusing to replace the Start Menu.

Fix the headline and stop propagating Microsoft's spin, this is a band-aid on sucking chest wound and nothing more.

Re:Misleading headline (1, Insightful)

PCM2 (4486) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669741)

Actually, the Start Button does include one benefit: you can right click it to get the system administrator's menu, which has a bunch of useful stuff on it. The same menu was available in Windows 8, but you had to know it was there because there was no icon to let you know about it, and there was no way to activate it on a touchscreen.

A step in the right direction! (0)

zmollusc (763634) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669295)

It appears that Microsoft are responding to the needs of their customers. This is a good start. Next they need to dump Trusted Computing and a whole load of other crap.
Keep going down this road, Microsoft, and I will be gladly forking out my hard-earned money for Windows 15.

Responding...what a word (2)

tuppe666 (904118) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669387)

It appears that Microsoft are responding to the needs of their customers

The response was "fuck you"

Re:A step in the right direction! (4, Interesting)

roc97007 (608802) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669403)

> It appears that Microsoft are responding to the needs of their customers.

...and that's exactly what they were after -- an appearance of responding to the needs of the customers, without actually doing so.

Re:A step in the right direction! (2)

Noughmad (1044096) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669463)

It appears that Microsoft are responding to the needs of their customers. This is a good start.

Not always, no. There are famous quotes by people from Henry Ford to Gene Roddenberry that all come down to "people don't know what they want". And it's true, if MS asked what people wanted, 90% would say XP, solely because they're used to it.

Part of the reason Apple is so successful is that they followed a vision despite all naysayers. As seen in both Windows 8 and X-Box One, Microsoft tends to backpedal on their vision. Not being sure about your own products can hardly lead to market success.

Re:A step in the right direction! (2)

PCM2 (4486) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669775)

Not always, no. There are famous quotes by people from Henry Ford to Gene Roddenberry that all come down to "people don't know what they want". And it's true, if MS asked what people wanted, 90% would say XP, solely because they're used to it.

This is actually something I think about often. Steve Jobs' "genius" was that he always told people what they wanted, then gave it to them.

Microsoft, on the other hand, always CLAIMS to make changes because "that's what people want." They do endless research to see what buttons people click after they click this or that button, and then they make those buttons bigger so they're easier to click. They arrange the Office Ribbon based on what they see people doing. Everything, EVERYTHING is based on research, both through direct surveys and blind feedback from their software running in the wild... ...and yet, when they make the changes, most people seem to respond negatively. But Microsoft won't revise its changes -- or allow a smart, Steve Jobs-like human to make the decisions -- because they have all this research, so they "know" what people want. "You say you hate this? Well you're wrong, you don't hate it, and I can prove it."

TL;DR Microsoft actually seems hamstrung by its own design methodology. It designs by committee, vote, and statistical study, rather than by inspiration -- and its slavish adherence to those methods means it has a hard time recovering from its own mistakes.

Start button != Start menu! (4, Informative)

roc97007 (608802) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669343)

Let's not confuse the two -- an icon in the lower left corner that takes one to the "start screen" was not what was asked for. What was asked for was an actual start menu, not a button that takes you to a page full of icons. It's extremely annoying that Microsoft would deliberately choose to misunderstand this. (They couldn't be stupid enough to think that's what we really wanted.)

Re:Start button != Start menu! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669703)

Here, maybe if we use a visual guide [penny-arcade.com] .

Maybe they can put a menu in for Windows 8.2?

More palatable (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669347)

... introducing a number of changes designed to make the new operating system more palatable to current Windows users

More palatable to people who don't have touchscreens. More palatable to people who actually want to get work done and not fuck around all day swiping their photos/whatever back and forth.

Missing feature enterprises waiting for.... (3, Interesting)

jkrise (535370) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669373)

"Boot straight to XP" mode.... with the memory and disk requirements of Windows 8; better thing would've been to bundle an XP inside of Windows 8; and provide an option to Boot Straight To XP mode; there's still metric tons worth software that will run only on XP; not even Vista nor 7.

People who truly need or want the Metro stuff can boot to that junk if they want to; and they'd probably get what they deserve.

That way MS can keep legacy code and legacy depending customers happy; and still provide them a path to run so-called modern apps which are a pain in the desktop.

Re:Missing feature enterprises waiting for.... (1)

Kjella (173770) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669567)

I bet Microsoft is tired of supporting XP, it's been 12 years since the initial release - same year as Linux 2.4.0, which was EOL'd in 2011. Honestly, Windows 7 is the new XP - doesn't matter what crap comes before or after, it's the slam dunk obvious upgrade path with hardly any user pain. If your "enterprise" software still can't cope 4 years after release then replace that crappy vendor. Or if it's really that bad, then use a VM.

YES! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669389)

Goodbye Linsux and OS X. The one true OS ... oh shit I can't even troll this.

Re:YES! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669613)

Hehe... Lunsux, OSuX, WindowsuXP

You stumbled upon a trolling goldmine!

New Start menu is not so bad - Metro apps are (5, Insightful)

hsa (598343) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669407)

Once you get used to it, the new Start menu is ok. You don't spend much time in there anyway.

The real pain in the ass are the stupid full screen Metro apps. Yeah, they just pop up with brightly colored interface that is optimized for touch. They completely disrupt your workflow, there is no visible Exit-button, and they do that for one screen only (if you have multimonitor system, you will totally hate this).

This happens more every now and then and I have to go through some trouble to replace them with better OSS alternatives. If you are watching a video, default app might pop up, and maybe nag about codec or not being up to date - when you really just want to see the video now, with clear controls. PDF reader pops up with no clear navigation and ofcourse fullscreen, and these ofcourse always go to the same monitor, even if you would like to read the PDF on screen #2, while coding. Shit like this happens also with images and music, and the interface is just .. horrible.

I don't even care anymore, if they fixed this. I've been downloading OSS replacements for just about every program and I am curretly ok with my Windows. But instead of fixing the Start menu, which is only a minor nuisance, they could make WINDOWED and USABLE default apps.

They should also shoot the guy, who designed all their new software (Office, Visual Studio..) USING ONLY CAPS FOR TITLES, patch them back to normal and make my eyes hurt less.

Re:New Start menu is not so bad - Metro apps are (1)

jones_supa (887896) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669755)

The real pain in the ass are the stupid full screen Metro apps. Yeah, they just pop up with brightly colored interface that is optimized for touch. They completely disrupt your workflow, there is no visible Exit-button, and they do that for one screen only (if you have multimonitor system, you will totally hate this).

This! There's a debate going on who likes the Start Screen and who doesn't, but one of the supposed main attractions of Windows 8 are the Metro apps. And almost no one likes or needs them.

how about TPM? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669435)

Recently I have became wobbly on use of m$ products. I admit my failure now. My spirits were strong but my flesh was weak. Last weeks made me understand my failures. What has happened were three things:

  1. I moved from vista to windows7. There are few good things but the rest is just shitty.
  2. Snowden did his whistling and now I have even bigger doubts on anything coming from US
  3. German government did issue this warning about TPM [bsi.bund.de] . They say of course that for common user there is no worry but they put a question mark on use of the trusted computing shit in business and in government other than US.

Now dear microsoft and others - how on earth should I trust any US company? Not that we have all too much choice but hey in OS area we do. Fuck you - you NSA smurfs!

In view of this I consider minor changes described here completly irrelevant.

This Start Button thing is such a side-show (1)

umafuckit (2980809) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669475)

Personally, I think this stuff with the Start Button is a side show. Even if they reverted it back completely to the Win7 behavior, it wouldn't remedy the underlying problems with the OS and the MS software ecosystem in general. In particular: the persistent development of their own "standards" for the purposes of locking out competition, general dumbing down of the OS, poor CLI integration (please just build-in Bash), no multiple desktops, and why sometimes when I drag many large files into a new directory does Win 7 spend ages doing a copy then delete?

Re:This Start Button thing is such a side-show (1)

jader3rd (2222716) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669537)

and why sometimes when I drag many large files into a new directory does Win 7 spend ages doing a copy then delete?

If it's on the same disk a move is a just a path rename and takes no time at all. If the data is changing hard drives a move is a copy and a delete.

Re:This Start Button thing is such a side-show (1)

udippel (562132) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669569)

Personally, I think this stuff with the Start Button is a side show. Even if they reverted it back completely to the Win7 behavior, it wouldn't remedy the underlying problems with the OS and the MS software ecosystem in general. In particular: the persistent development of their own "standards" for the purposes of locking out competition, general dumbing down of the OS, poor CLI integration (please just build-in Bash), no multiple desktops, and why sometimes when I drag many large files into a new directory does Win 7 spend ages doing a copy then delete?

Okay, understood.
Why not install a proper OS then?

Re:This Start Button thing is such a side-show (2)

PCM2 (4486) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669783)

poor CLI integration (please just build-in Bash)

Windows PowerShell is arguably a superior CLI to Bash.

NO Start Menu, its METRO menu ... METRO Button (1)

citizenr (871508) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669593)

How effin difficult is it to get the difference?

windows 8.1, excellent OS (1)

Vince6791 (2639183) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669645)

Windows 8.1 is just fast, intuitive, customizable, and a lot better than windows 7. Don't care for the old start menu, never really used it, never cared for it, plus the windows 7 menu does not scroll when it exceeds the icon limit in favorites. With the metro I can pin more than 50+ applications on a single screen without the need to scroll, although, the scrolling never really bothered me. Installing the 8.1 OS, apps, applications, configuring, and transferring files is just better and faster than 7.

Windows 8/8.1 I think is a lot more productive than xp/7. To some people the metro may look childish but it's definitely easier on the eyes and quicker accessing applications just by looking at the tile icons instead of squinting reading the icon text like in windows 7 start menu. Overall, windows 8.1 is excellent.

Linux, I still have beef with the linux being too internet dependent(not everyone has 24/7 perfect internet) when it comes to installing applications(store mines in storage for later installs), although I can install whatever i need and just use aptoncd(sometimes works) or relinux to make another distro. The linux DE's are still flaky although mate and cinnamon put windows7 menu to shame. Unity is fine just wish they would make it more like the metro where you can pin whatever applications you want into the dash.

   

Re:windows 8.1, excellent OS (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,8 days | (#44669713)

failed troll is failed

we run Windows because we have to (1)

roc97007 (608802) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669677)

To the shills bleating about people denigrating Windows 8 as "just whiners" are being a bit disingenuous. We run Windows because we have to. Companies standardize on Windows because certain applications only run there. However, we do *not* have to go out and buy whatever crapheap Microsoft grunts out, because we're up on the shallow end of the curve regarding Windows -- with all its faults and security holes, it's gotten about as good as it's going to get. We haven't had to anticipate the large collection bugfixes, paradigm fixes and interface compatibility that is the next version of Windows since XP. There is no new USB-like interface that would make us snap up 98SE as soon as it's available. There's no huge stability increase that would make us slaver for Win2000 or WinXP. Even Win7 was really just a minor improvement.

The issue, if any, is that new systems have Win8 crapped all over it, and Win8 is another one of those ill-advised attempts at "leading the industry" by producing a bad copy of what Microsoft thinks everyone else is doing. This requires reimaging at work, which is ok because we'd probably do that anyway, and I can still get Win7 through my OEM, so systems I build for friends and relatives are not affected that much. But someone buys a laptop and it has that nasty interface on it, and they bring it to me, and well, I'm afraid I have some bad news. I can put the start menu back, but all the other stuff -- the charms and hot corners and sliding gestures that can't be done on a trackpad, you're stuck with those, unless you pay for another copy of Windows.

We are at the point where we don't care about a new OS anymore, because we have actual work to do that does not entail learning the quirks of a new OS.

This goes double for servers. We still have a lot of stuff running on Server 2003, because it works and there's no reason to swap it out. Newer machines will have Server 2008, which is still ok, but we have no inclination to deal with the metro-esque misfeatures of 2012.

Hey Microsoft, want $30/year from me? (4, Insightful)

istartedi (132515) | 1 year,8 days | (#44669699)

Patch XP past its EOL, and charge $30/yr for the patch subscriptions. I'll buy it.

What I will NEVER do is use a locked-down phone platform as my primary device.

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