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Russia Issues Travel Warning To Its Citizens About United States and Extradition

Unknown Lamer posted about a year ago | from the about-that-cold-war dept.

Crime 369

mendax writes "The New York Times reports that the Russian government is warning its citizens to not travel to countries that have an extradition treaty with the United States, noting that 'detentions of Russian citizens in various countries, at the request of American law enforcement, have become more frequent.' The article reports the Russian foreign ministry as saying,'Experience shows that the judicial proceedings against those who were in fact kidnapped and taken to the U.S. are of a biased character, based on shaky evidence, and clearly tilted toward conviction.'"

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Times have changed. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743043)

Not too long ago that most people in the US would be worried about Russia being the bad guy in such situations.

Re:Times have changed. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743145)

Times are always changing.

Russian citizens are stealing many millions of dollars, mostly from US banks and citizens. The Russian authorities won't stop them and won't extradite them. Now they are complaining when USA law enforcement issues warrants for their arrest and other countries act on those warrants.

Re:Times have changed. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743193)

Does USA extradite own citizens?

Re:Times have changed. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743209)

Actually, yes, it does. About 60 have been extradited to Britain in the last 7 years. I presume that the US extradites citizens to other countries also.

Re:Times have changed. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743293)

When did the british turn into america's little bitch? Shouldn't they be embarassed?

Re:Times have changed. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743421)

1983
yes

Re:Times have changed. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743503)

Extradition treaties goes both ways. Perhaps its time for a Government 101 brush up?

Re:Times have changed. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743507)

when Thatcher started geting wet for Regan.

Re: Times have changed. (1)

techneeks (1374735) | about a year ago | (#44743527)

citation needed...

Bah (5, Insightful)

frovingslosh (582462) | about a year ago | (#44743189)

Pay it no attention. Next thing you know the Ruskies will claim that America spies on its own citizens.

Shaky? (1)

Ralph Barbagallo (2881145) | about a year ago | (#44743053)

Is "shaky" a precise legal term?

Re:Shaky? (1, Informative)

theycallmeB (606963) | about a year ago | (#44743071)

No, but is an excellent propaganda phrase.

Re:Shaky? (4, Insightful)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about a year ago | (#44743121)

"No, but is an excellent propaganda phrase."

Hmmm...

prop a gan da noun
information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.

How is this harmful? It appears to be simple truth.

Re:Shaky? (2)

LandDolphin (1202876) | about a year ago | (#44743167)

Notice that your definition of propaganda doesn't say "false information".

Re:Shaky? (0)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about a year ago | (#44743191)

Notice that your definition of propaganda doesn't say "false information".

Nor did I say or imply that it had to. What I mentioned was "harmful".

Re:Shaky? (2)

LandDolphin (1202876) | about a year ago | (#44743261)

Actually you did imply that when you asked how it can be harmful if it is the "simple truth".

But OK. So you just didn't understand how implying that the US is issuing warrants on "shaky evidence" is attempt to bring into question the quality of the evidence that the US is using to issue warrants for Russian Citizens and how that might be harmful to US interests. But you do understand enough about the situation to make the determination that the evidence being used is indeed "shaky"

Re:Shaky? (4, Insightful)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | about a year ago | (#44743379)

Since when has the truth not been harmful in diplomacy, politics, or espionage?

Re:Shaky? (1)

gagol (583737) | about a year ago | (#44743435)

synonym: mass medias

Re:Shaky? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743469)

"No, but is an excellent propaganda phrase."

Hmmm...

prop a gan da noun

information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.

How is this harmful? It appears to be simple truth.

Cite some cases then.

Re:Shaky? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743265)

Propaganda works best where you have at least an element of truth. The conviction rates, sentences and so on for the poor and rich in the US legal system are extremely different (look also at black vs white). Imagine how much worse it is for a poor (relative to the USA - he could be pretty rich at home) Russian who doesn't properly speak English and has the huge psychological pressure of having nobody nearby he knows at all.

Simple fact: the US legal system is deeply scary; there is a huge false conviction rate. Remember what we are always told, death sentences are the ones that are most investigated and are 100% sure. The innocence project shows the US has a minimum of a 12% false conviction rate [caught.net] for death sentences; other crimes must be much worse. Unlike people convicted before DNA evidence, nothing new will show up after the fact to save you.

Most convictions in the US are "shaky" and many are simply wrong. I'm sure it's even worse in most of Russia, but if you are having to compare yourself with Russia then you have already gone mad.

Re:Shaky? (1, Funny)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | about a year ago | (#44743101)

Is "shaky" a precise legal term?

Yes, since today it also has the samiliar meaning of "nokia", meaning "shaky" as in shaky future -

Usage 1: He used to be good but now he has a nokia future.

Usage 2: Windows 8 sucks, no wonder it has a nokia future.

Re:Shaky? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743203)

I remember when people said that about apple.

In Soviet Russia.. (1)

coffecup (3032279) | about a year ago | (#44743067)

there's got to be a joke here somewhere...

Re:In Post-Soviet Russia.. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743085)

Americans arrest you!

Re:In Soviet Russia.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743119)

There is, sadly the joke is being played out on everyone that comes into contact with the US.

Re:In Soviet Russia.. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743161)

There is a joke, but it's hardly funny. The joke is that the Russians are warning their people about America in the same way that America warned it's citizens about Russia in the 70's and 80's.

The American government has a very low level of support from everyone. Also, I'm sure that in many countries, the government has been noted to shit-talk America. Why is their so much more hype suddenly since the Snowden leak(s), and Syria's civil war? Everyone's worried about war. I know people of sane mind and body, that are preparing by stocking up on canned goods. And it's the American government that they're scared of, and it's mutated mentality of destruction of anything that it deems "bad" in the light of the moment only. Who wouldn't be afraid of such a government?

It's totally sane of any country to warn it's people about not having basic human rights in America. It used to be a kick-ass place to visit. Now, not so much.

Re:In Soviet Russia.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743201)

Your reply shows that you did not ready the article (shocker) and are just taking an anti-American point of view because that fits your mindset.

Re:In Soviet Russia.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743393)

I'm an american and this seems about right regardless of the article (remember how slashdot used to have interesting discussions forked off a topic but aren't related, good days). It also seems right for what most other countries do. Including the UK and Russia. So really, it's accurate to say but the person saying it should not be on a pedestal as there is an 80% chance their country is no better.

Re:In Soviet Russia.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743321)

The joke is that the Russians are warning their people about America in the same way that America warned it's citizens about Russia in the 70's and 80's.

And it's the American government that they're scared of, and it's mutated mentality of destruction of anything that it deems "bad" in the light of the moment only.

It's totally sane of any country to warn it's people about not having basic human rights in America.

That was painful to read. Perhaps you should brush up on your language skills until you get it through your head that the word "it's" is a contraction of "it is" or "it has" and mere reference to a time period should not include an apostrophe unless you are referring to something that those times possessed.

Re:In Soviet Russia.. (2)

geirlk (171706) | about a year ago | (#44743733)

It must be horribly painful for you these days then, surfing the intarwebs, reading them bad grammars'stuff.

Re: In Soviet Russia.. (4, Informative)

donscarletti (569232) | about a year ago | (#44743325)

There is a joke, but it's hardly funny. The joke is that the Russians are warning their people about America in the same way that America warned it's citizens about Russia in the 70's and 80's.

Or alternatively, Russians are warning their people about America in the same way that Soviets warned their people about America in the 70's and 80's. The exact same bullshit about the boogiemen over there has been flung both ways for centuries. These days we have the Internet to open our eyes, but the lies are pretty much the same as those that started the Punic wars 2200 years ago.

Re:In Soviet Russia.. (5, Interesting)

nbauman (624611) | about a year ago | (#44743377)

The article cited Victor Bout. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Bout [wikipedia.org]

Bout was an arms dealer who sold to both sides, as arms dealers, including Americans, often do.

I don't like arms dealers, but they're in a legal and sometimes necessary business.

They arrested somebody who couldn't break American law because he was never in America and wasn't a citizen.

I don't like Dick Cheney or Eric Prince either, and they've broken the law just as much as Bout did.

The U.S. never extradited Luis Posada, who bombed a Cuban civilian airliner and killed everybody on board, including a soccer team, despite many requests, and the U.S. never prosecuted Posada itself.

Let's follow the law and put them all in jail. Or ignore the law and don't put anybody in jail. But don't just enforce (dubious extraterritorial) laws against a Russian and not against Americans.

Re:In Soviet Russia.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743637)

The US cuts large arm deals all the time, more so then any arms dealer.

In order for the US and other countries to keep wars or conflicts going the arms dealer get away with doing business, it is a evil, but they become a necessary evil.

Re:In Soviet Russia.. (2)

Eunuchswear (210685) | about a year ago | (#44743581)

I know people of sane mind and body, that are preparing by stocking up on canned goods. And it's the American government that they're scared of,

No you don't.

Even if you're crazy enough to imagine the feds are out to get you stocking up canned goods cannot be regarded as a sane response.

So those people aren't "of sane mind and body".

Re:In Soviet Russia.. (4, Funny)

GumphMaster (772693) | about a year ago | (#44743653)

The American government has a very low level of support from everyone.

Our Aussie politicians and Defence Signals Directorate would beg (snivel, grovel, plead and generally be a toady) to differ ;)

Absolutely the case (-1, Flamebait)

slasher999 (513533) | about a year ago | (#44743069)

Unfortunately this is the world we in the US now live in. Courtesy of the extreme Left we are now living effectively in a police state. US citizens are even experiencing great difficulty now in exercising the rights "guaranteed" to us under our Constitution. It's time for a change. Our leaders have no business making off the cuff remarks regarding world issues, making decisions on their own without consulting Congress, and treating US citizens like criminals as their standard MO.

Re:Absolutely the case (1)

TFlan91 (2615727) | about a year ago | (#44743095)

Because there isn't a huge vote coming up in Congress about Syria or anything... Everything on the interwebz is a lie!

Re:Absolutely the case (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743127)

That is a bigger issue. The "little" issues get swept under and we will probably go to war regardless of congresses vote. It just won't be officially a war which means we'll be committing even worse atrocities and there will be no rights under international treaty of those imprisoned as a result of said war.

Re: Absolutely the case (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743263)

Imprisoned? I fail to see how it's inappropriate to bomb banned chemical stockpiles on military bases used against civilians. If anything, IMO of course, this administration has compromised far too much & should take bolder action in doing what's just & right. I just don't see how anyone can view all the deaths & evidence against that regime & think it's ok to do nothing. But I digress. Carry on.

Re: Absolutely the case (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743709)

You cannot bomb chemical stockpiles please think.

Re:Absolutely the case (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743109)

It's time for a change.

Where have I heard this before? Oh, must be nothing. Surely voting for the other party has got to work this time, I mean what are the chances of it failing tens of times in a row right?

Re:Absolutely the case (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743115)

Please do not make this about "Right" vs "Left". Both parties love power, and don't really care about the citizens. When people bicker about "Right" vs "Left" it distracts from the real issues.

Re:Absolutely the case (5, Insightful)

Puls4r (724907) | about a year ago | (#44743129)

Your comment will probably get a lot of responses, just because of the hatred and misinformation that it contains. I'm not fan of the far left (nor the far right), but let's for a minute remember who created the department of homeland security. George W. Bush. Let's also take a look at who created the TSA. George W. Bush. Who signed the Patriot Act into law? George W. Bush. I don't know about you, but I don't think any of the people listed above are part of the 'Extreme Left'. Yet somehow the people I listed above have done a fabulous job restricting freedom. I'm not really interested in left or right. I just find it sad that people like you can't distinguish the forest through the trees: ALL our politicians have contributed to this problem. The sad fact remains: Russia is right. We are becoming a police state, especially with regards to extradition and our borders where we claim our laws don't apply.

Re: Absolutely the case (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743179)

LSTER...D

You know what to do...

Eric

Re:Absolutely the case (-1, Troll)

jaygridley (1016588) | about a year ago | (#44743271)

Who signed the renewal of the Patriot Act? Barack Obama.

Re:Absolutely the case (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743305)

That is exactly his point. Both sides of politics are at fault.

Re:Absolutely the case (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743385)

How did you manage to miss the obvious point. It's not about 'left' or 'right' making you a part of the noise that distracts.

Re:Absolutely the case (5, Insightful)

jkauzlar (596349) | about a year ago | (#44743215)

Courtesy of the extreme Left...

I'm not sure what the vegans and homosexuals have to do with this, but if i remember, a lot of this started under bush and has been embraced wholeheartedly by the present administration. If you think this is about left vs. right, you don't understand american politics.

With appologies to Mr Adams (3, Funny)

mjwx (966435) | about a year ago | (#44743445)

Courtesy of the extreme Left...

I'm not sure what the vegans and homosexuals have to do with this, but if i remember, a lot of this started under bush and has been embraced wholeheartedly by the present administration. If you think this is about left vs. right, you don't understand american politics.

I dont think anyone understands 'Murican politics and if anyone did understand 'Murican politics it would be instantaneously replaced with something even more unexplainable and convoluted.

Re:Absolutely the case (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743217)

Unfortunately this is the world we in the US now live in. Courtesy of the extreme Left we are now living effectively in a police state.

Yeah, the "left". Maybe you are looking upside down at times. Both "left" and "right" are advancing it relentlessly. You know, to "protect the children" and other such diversions and lies used to impose totalitarian laws.

Police state doesn't give a fuck if it is left or right. It only cares to gain more control and maintain status quo.

Re:Absolutely the case (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743239)

What "extreme Left" would that be? Remember that this is the US we're talking about, where the "Left" consists of that tiny slice of the political spectrum that's not made up of barking mad right-wingers.

Re:Absolutely the case (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743249)

The extreme left? In the USA? Are you serious? To what very limited extent there even is a left in the USA it's what Europeans call the center or center-right...and this teabaggery gets modded up on /. What's next, Glenn Beck's goldline scam being pushed as sound investment and a top story? Weeping Jesus on the Cross what the Hell's happened to this place?

Re:Absolutely the case (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743569)

Mod parent up. Anybody who thinks the current US government is "extreme left" has to check their sense of direction. According to any standard in the rest of the world the current US government is far-right: helping crooked banks using taxpayers money, waging multiple foreign wars, detaining people without due process, literally spying on everybody in his sister. Now the republicans and the tea-baggers are something different. Some of them honestly seem to believe their own crazy ideology, just like the communists did way back before the reality came crashing down on them.

Then again, i would really like some of the stuff the GP is smoking.

Re:Absolutely the case (3, Insightful)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about a year ago | (#44743299)

Courtesy of the extreme Left we are now living effectively in a police state.

Holy shit, you quit taking your meds again, didn't you? There isn't, and hasn't been an "extreme left" in this country in almost 40 years. It's that the extreme right keeps moving more extremely right that makes people who used to be described as "moderate Republicans" (like Barak Obama) look like lefties. These days, idiots like you, who use sentences like the above quoted, wouldn't have allowed Ronald Reagan to run as a Republican because he wasn't "right" enough. And somebody like an Everett Dirkson, well, "hangin' would be too good for him", right?

Biased charges, clearly tilted toward conviction (5, Interesting)

ulatekh (775985) | about a year ago | (#44743075)

Experience shows that the judicial proceedings against those who were in fact kidnapped and taken to the U.S. are of a biased character, based on shaky evidence, and clearly tilted toward conviction.

Yeah, Russia's the expert on that.

Still, it's amazing that the U.S. has become such a totalitarian police state that Russia can legitimately give them crap.

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (3, Informative)

LandDolphin (1202876) | about a year ago | (#44743177)

The fact that you would call the US a Totalitarian Police State means that you have very little understanding of the a Totalitarian Police State actually is.

Is the US doing things it shouldn't be (Spying on its citizens, TSA, etc.), sure. But that is far from Soviet Union, North Korea, Nazi Germany. You know, actual Totalitarian Police States.

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (3, Insightful)

jmd (14060) | about a year ago | (#44743223)

I would agree that we live in a police state now. But no one has tested it yet. But everything is in place. Give it some time and we'll all look back and say *oh shit*

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (1)

aliquis (678370) | about a year ago | (#44743309)

I would agree that we live in a police state now. But no one has tested it yet. But everything is in place. Give it some time and we'll all look back and say *oh shit*

But one have to look at the positives to.

Think "Hackers" and lots of Sci-Fi content (Equilibrium and so on (not that I remember much of that one, but whatever.))

Sci-Fi has been right before .. :D

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743233)

Forgot GITMO and the number of people detained there without ever having seen a judge, or a lawyer?

A country where you can be taken off the street without any cause, just by labeling you a 'terrorist' sounds just like the Soviet Union, North Korea and Nazi Germany..

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (0)

LandDolphin (1202876) | about a year ago | (#44743303)

It certainly does. But that isn't happening is it? Do US Citizens need to fear the government knocking on the door at midnight? Were John Stewart or Stephen Colbert or Glenn Beck or Bill Orielly arrested for their blatant attacks of the government? No? Ohh ok. Then once again, I bring up that while not perfect, the US is far from the Totalitarian state some think it is.

The word totalitarian has a meaning. A country working towards gay rights is not a country that it becoming totalitarian.

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743433)

A country working towards gay rights is not a country that it becoming totalitarian.

I'm laughing my ass off. Ok, imagine a GAY totalitarian state where heterosexual relationships are banned and prosecuted... Wait, it cannot be called totalitarian, amirite?

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743739)

Gay rights are a bullshit issue. They don't matter either way compared to important rights.

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (1)

stenvar (2789879) | about a year ago | (#44743453)

Forgot GITMO and the number of people detained there without ever having seen a judge, or a lawyer?

That's little different from the imprisonment refugees suffer in places like Germany and Australia. Australia has even set up extraterritorial detention camps in places like Nauru.

A country where you can be taken off the street without any cause, just by labeling you a 'terrorist' sounds just like the Soviet Union, North Korea and Nazi Germany..

If you are considered a threat to national security, you can be taken off the street in pretty much any nation. The only thing that's unusual about the US is that this didn't use to happen here. And the sooner we return that exceptional status among nations, the better.

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743649)

These refugees are always free to go back to their own countries, and I'm pretty sure they're not undergoing torture-light there.

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (4, Insightful)

nbauman (624611) | about a year ago | (#44743389)

A totalitarian state is one in which people used to say, "It can't happen here."

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (1)

stenvar (2789879) | about a year ago | (#44743437)

Is the US doing things it shouldn't be (Spying on its citizens, TSA, etc.), sure. But that is far from Soviet Union, North Korea, Nazi Germany. You know, actual Totalitarian Police States.

And it is, in fact, not very different from what many other nations are already doing. Modern Germany, France, the UK, and lots of other nations have been spying on their citizens for decades and are still much more intrusive into their citizens' personal lives than even the US under Obama.

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743583)

The fact that you would call the US a Totalitarian Police State means that you have very little understanding of the a Totalitarian Police State actually is.

The fact that they have checkpoints along my interstate whenever they deem necessary is all I have to say. It violates my 4th amendment rights against unreasonable search and seizure.

The USA is a Police State. At least Sioux Falls, South Dakota is. They run checkpoints all the time violating the 4th amendment. Someone should really prosecute those pricks.

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743727)

Give it a rest asshole. You and your ilk will be using this same tired line up until the last seconds when we are being loaded on to rail cars and herded in to group showers. It blows my mind to still hear this type of apologist bullshit so soon after the barrage of revelations that are still raining down on our heads.

You could literally be replaced by a chat-bot. It's like boot-licking mad libs:

In response to attack on 4th amendment:
"If you don't have anything to hide"

In response to police brutality:
"Let's not rush to judgement, we don't have all the information re: audio/off camera/what happened before the video starts rolling"
"It is a dangerous job which causes legitimate fear for life."-Actually not very dangerous btw, comparatively speaking.

In response to attack on 2nd amendment:
"What legitimate use does it serve to have a [noun] that can [verb]?"

In response to 5th amendment:
"I can't imagine a situation where this could be incriminating unless you've done something wrong."

In response to 1st amendment:
"Freedom of speech isn't limitless. You can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, and expression of this nature is frankly just irresponsible."

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (1)

jmd (14060) | about a year ago | (#44743211)

Likely the article refers to this guy : Voktor Bout

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Bout

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743365)

OK, Now that they got him can they tell us who is smuggling weapons nowdays?

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (5, Interesting)

nbauman (624611) | about a year ago | (#44743475)

I don't understand how we could legally arrest Bout. He wasn't a citizen of the U.S., he was never in the U.S., and he never committed a crime on U.S. soil.

He was a citizen of a country that often supported the side opposite of ours in conflicts, but that's not a crime.

Kissinger gave material support to regimes that were committing war crimes. If Russia wants to prosecute Kissinger, would we be legally required to turn him over? If Kissinger's airplane was forced to stop in Russia, could the Russians arrest him?

Maybe you don't believe in following international law. Maybe you believe in realpolitik and might makes right. OK, but you no longer have grounds for moral outrage when a militant group sets off a truck full of dynamite outside your embassy. They're just playing by the same rules you are.

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (1)

aliquis (678370) | about a year ago | (#44743255)

Still, it's amazing that the U.S. has become such a totalitarian police state that Russia can legitimately give them crap.

And the Germans. Syria had a go at it to :D

Re:Biased charges, clearly tilted toward convictio (1)

jrumney (197329) | about a year ago | (#44743411)

Yeah, Russia's the expert on that.

Why practice extra-ordinary rendition when you can invite your victim over for some polonium tea.

Stranger Than Fiction (5, Insightful)

wrackspurt (3028771) | about a year ago | (#44743099)

Once not long ago I would have laughed now I'm just sad.

So just like home.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743107)

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw propaganda around. Pussy Riot, Kasperov... all of these things, they do not ring a bell ya?

US Allies are starting to turn their backs on them (4, Insightful)

elashish14 (1302231) | about a year ago | (#44743123)

Not that Russia was ever a major ally to the US, but more and more countries are ceasing to put up with the hostile nature of the US's foreign relations policy. The US is failing in all sorts of relations due to its policies on copyrights, "terrorism," worthless wars and drug enforcement, and increasingly, other nations are no longer putting up with it.

Throughout its history, the US has more or less never had any interest in the well-being of other nations they enter relations with. Of course, you could perhaps say this is true of all nations. However, if the US is going to be so self-centered in its relations, then the best thing for the world is for them to have less of an influence in strong-arming other nations into agreeing with them. This influence historically has come largely from dominating economic pressure, but we'll see if it lasts - hopefully it doesn't. The last thing the world needs is to become more like the US.

Re:US Allies are starting to turn their backs on t (1)

LandDolphin (1202876) | about a year ago | (#44743183)

Actually, this article is about how other countries are assisting the US against Russia.

Re:US Allies are starting to turn their backs on t (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743285)

Actually, this is about how Russia fears the US will abuse the treaties it has with other countries.

These treaties were signed when the US still had the appearance of a trustworthy partner... and you don't waive this treaties without suffering consequences. (remember the cuba trade embargo? - Imagine a 'Europe' trade embargo... not good.

Re:US Allies are starting to turn their backs on t (0)

stenvar (2789879) | about a year ago | (#44743369)

Throughout its history, the US has more or less never had any interest in the well-being of other nations they enter relations with.

No, it hasn't. I'm not sure whatever gave you the idea that it did, or that it should have. America has only ever acted in its own self-interest, and done so unapologetically.

then the best thing for the world is for them to have less of an influence in strong-arming other nations into agreeing with them.

I doubt that that's the "best thing". America's economic self-interest is still a lot more benign than Germany's, France's, the UK's, Russia's, or China's have ever been. And those nations don't have any interest in your well-being, wherever you may be, either.

This influence historically has come largely from dominating economic pressure, but we'll see if it lasts - hopefully it doesn't. The last thing the world needs is to become more like the US.

Yeah, because Europe, Russia, and Asia were doing so well when they ran things according to their ideologies, right?

Re:US Allies are starting to turn their backs on t (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743419)

This is easy to explain: The US is not a nation, but an empire.

Most other countries have given up being an empire. Some still have ties from the past (britain, the french once in a while), others are also trying to be empires (russia attempts that, china is one). Look with whom the most problems arise: With other empires.That is not due to size but due to the exclusive claim empires have on "stuff they are interested in". Australia is also very large but it does not have constant struggles with the nations near, many european countries are pretty large and influential but they do not have constant problems all over the world (but they had when they were trying to be empires - like in the events that lead to WWI).

Empires have a claim on ressources, influence and ideology - nations can negotiate. As such, empires constalty have to to defend their claim by very dirty diplomatic means and by wars.

Re:US Allies are starting to turn their backs on t (1)

aliquis (678370) | about a year ago | (#44743429)

I wouldn't be all that worried. Lots of ass licking still going on.

Obama will land here in Sweden is it tomorrow or something? Our prime minister isn't supposed to talk about intelligence gathering (we do it ourself and likely share intelligence with the US to that would be weird to begin with), maybe something will be said about Syria but it seems like what he want to talk about is a free trade agreement / zone between the US and EU.

Now if you look at individuals here I assume some will take the chance to try to make themself seen and heard, but I don't know what is planed (I don't live in Stockholm to begin with so I'm not likely to participate in anything anyway because I'm too cheap =P)

Also while we don't have those "first amandment cages" which someone else linked yesterday things like the road he/they will be traveling on will be totally shut down and I guess they won't let the most crazy people / demonstrating people disturb the meeting / silence.

Came to think about it I wonder if the meeting with other scandinavian and baltic leaders wasn't supposed to be on Gotland (which is an island in the baltic sea) if so I guess they get rid of lots of people in Stockholm who would otherwise had participated because then they too would have to travel to Gotland and that takes much more interest / dedication.

Personally I would had been most interested in our political leaders growing some and say let Snowden or Manning och Assange be here and let people speak their mind (and possibly things like Facebook and Google put more data centers here and build better network infrastructure and such because people enjoyed more a free zone) but they obviously don't share such a vision (and it may come at a diplomatic / political cost.)

Feels like a missed opportunity though. It would had been so easy to get lots of creative and intelligent minds, big IT business and in general cool people and technology here.

Instead they are focusing on selling out everything which is owned by us together, limit benefits of the people in the bottom and keep the borders open because we're such nice people! At least the last one is developing the society in the right direction.

Re:US Allies are starting to turn their backs on t (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743639)

Not that Russia was ever a major ally to the US

Not that the history of WW2 was ever taught where you came from. Ummm... America, possibly?

Nevermind US allies turning their backs on "them". Most of the American people [realclearpolitics.com] have turned their backs too. The question for the world, Americans included, is how to replace "them". It is an eternal question, and no nation is immune from the disease known as "them". That was the big take-away from the infamous Milgram experiment. Some people thought it might reveal when some people (like the Germans) were susceptible to such societal dysfunction. Turned out, we're all susceptible. It looks like it's America's turn to be infected. I just hope our problem gets solved by somebody reasonable. I for one, will welcome our Canadian overlords when the time comes.

Sanctions (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743157)

As an American, I long for the day when other countries hit America with sanctions for its human rights violations, and the other BS we pull. We really deserve it.

-- green led

Re:Sanctions (2)

jmd (14060) | about a year ago | (#44743237)

:)

Re:Sanctions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743291)

Not gonna happen. Just like China, the US' market is too big for any business to refuse to deal with them because of silly things like ethics. And no country would do it either because they want the money and don't want to be bombed until they're 'free'.

Solution (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743197)

Sure, a lot of countries are pulling away from the US and becoming more hostile. But there's a solution! Obama simply has to call these countries racist. Then they'll be ashamed and do whatever he wants.

It worked in the USA after all.

IT IS THE THIRD OF SEPTEMBER !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743231)

A day I will always remember !!
Because that was the day that my daddy died !!

Something just is not right here. Russia calling the USA "Commies" !! Not right at all !!

This is probably crap, but... (2)

swillden (191260) | about a year ago | (#44743245)

Most likely this is crap, just political gamesmanship, but the sad thing is that US actions and policies have given the country such a shady reputation that everyone has to at least give it a good look.

What the hell happened to my country? (4, Insightful)

He Who Has No Name (768306) | about a year ago | (#44743247)

These are the kinds of warnings WE used to give about RUSSIAN satellite nations.

This is all turning into a bad dream...

Re:What the hell happened to my country? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743447)

These are the kinds of warnings WE used to give about RUSSIAN satellite nations.

This is all turning into a bad dream...

You are falling for the propaganda. Google around for info about cases where the US asked for extraditions and decide for yourself if they were justified. Otherwise you are feeding the propaganda trolls.

Re:What the hell happened to my country? (1)

nbauman (624611) | about a year ago | (#44743493)

All during the cold war, when somebody would criticize violations of human rights in America, our leaders would point to the USSR and tell us that in Russia it was even worse.

Most of our cold-war propaganda was based on making Russia's lack of freedom a caricature of our own lack of freedom.

For example, our propagandists said that in Russia, people weren't free to travel. (Not true. I've met people who grew up in the Soviet Block and traveled all over the Soviet Block. East Germany was a popular vacation spot.)

But there was a bitch in the passport office who took it upon herself to decide who was a good American who had a right to travel and who was a bad American and couldn't get a passport.

One of the people who couldn't get a passport was Linus Pauling. He was a great scientist, but he came to the conclusion that the world couldn't survive a nuclear war and we had to disarm. As a result, the passport office wouldn't let him travel -- when it was important for him to get to scientific meetings in England and Europe to exchange ideas with other scientists. Some people think he Pauling would have discovered the double helix before Crick and Watson if he could have travelled.

But that's what happens when you disagree with the government in America.

Where's cold fjord? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743287)

We need you man. We neeeeeeeed you!!!

Well look at the facts MOST Russians are crooks (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743335)

It's true. Russua is likw a ghetto in Detroit. The only reason you don't know it's nothing but crooks is because you either live there or you don't.

I sure hope so (3, Insightful)

stenvar (2789879) | about a year ago | (#44743347)

I sure hope that if the US goes through the trouble of extraditing someone, its case is "biased towards conviction".

Warning only for people known to be wanted by U.S. (5, Insightful)

dunkindave (1801608) | about a year ago | (#44743387)

The summary says "the Russian government is warning its citizens to not travel to countries that have an extradition treaty with the United States", but the article says:

"The Russian Foreign Ministry posted advice of a somewhat different nature on Monday, cautioning people wanted by the United States not to visit nations that have an extradition treaty with it."

Unfortunately, that small omission significantly changes the meaning of the line.

Re:Warning only for people known to be wanted by U (1)

Nehmo (757404) | about a year ago | (#44743561)

The summary says "the Russian government is warning its citizens to not travel to countries that have an extradition treaty with the United States", but the article says: "The Russian Foreign Ministry posted advice of a somewhat different nature on Monday, cautioning people wanted by the United States not to visit nations that have an extradition treaty with it." Unfortunately, that small omission significantly changes the meaning of the line.

The summary says "the Russian government is warning its citizens to not travel to countries that have an extradition treaty with the United States", but the article says: "The Russian Foreign Ministry posted advice of a somewhat different nature on Monday, cautioning people wanted by the United States not to visit nations that have an extradition treaty with it." Unfortunately, that small omission significantly changes the meaning of the line.

I'm glad you read the article for me. I assumed the summary was accurate, but I now see it's seriously misleading. Unknown Lamer, the submitter, should be ashamed. The summary-version implies Russia is suggesting the US, at whim, may have you arrested in one of its allied countries. In the article-version, Russia is giving straight legal advice: if there is a US warrant for you, don't travel where a US warrant can be enforced.

Re: Warning only for people known to be wanted by (1)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | about a year ago | (#44743677)

However, the original bulletin does not seem to contain such language, judging from the auto translation.

The Real Problem? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743409)

I believe Russia.

RUSSIA.

On an issue of travel freedoms.

You've serious fucked up, USA, (and Britain).

Re:The Real Problem? (1)

mendax (114116) | about a year ago | (#44743701)

I believe Russia.

RUSSIA.

It may be bad form for one to comment upon his own posting but Russia's position is, more or less, correct on this issue. American courts leave much to be desired in terms of fairness or actual justice. But Russia's are worse. American prisons are generally pretty awful compared to those of Western Europe. But Russia's are worse. The only thing I can see going for Russia is that it doesn't have a death penalty, which may be worse in that life in a Russian prison could easily make a person wish for death. American prisoners serving life sentences are not in any kind of paradise and prisons for such people are not pleasant places but it is possible to live a fairly decent and satisfying life if the inmate can lower his or her expectations.

USA IS NOT LAW (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44743439)

I live in USA. Don't let us push you around. Threaten to push the fucking button if we don't shut up. Two can play at this "blow up the world game". There are more that can play in this game you stupid assholes. China. Who knows who else? Who cares? There is bullshit in Syria and after seeing this shit, I really wish someone would just nuke the fucking world. It's such a shithole because the people (group of people that really have the say) that are running it don't have the balls to take the people who are pushing their power too far and say stop. Kill them, replace them, do what you have to do. Just fix this. Please.

I have no problem with Russia or China. Peace bros.

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