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Gut Bacteria In Slim People Extract More Nutrients

Soulskill posted about 8 months ago | from the starve-them-into-doing-what-you-want dept.

Science 212

Beeftopia writes "Researchers discovered that inserting gut bacteria from obese people into mice without gut bacteria led to the mice becoming obese. Gut bacteria from slim people inserted into the same mice did not lead to mouse obesity. The researchers concluded (abstract) that gut bacteria from the slim people were more efficient at extracting nutrients from food than those of the obese."

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212 comments

FIAF. (4, Interesting)

TechyImmigrant (175943) | about 8 months ago | (#44779745)

This is a FIAF thing..
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2007/12/fiaf-whos-fat-is-it-anyway.html [blogspot.com]

It's not that they're better at extracting nutrients, it's that they influence the body to expend more or less enery. The nutrient extraction is a side effect.

I do wish researchers would read the relevant literature before jumping to conclusions.

Re:FIAF. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44779849)

And I'm to trust some random fuckbag and some blog over actual scientists with peer review research? Get over yourself.

Re:FIAF. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780765)

And I'm to trust some random fuckbag and some blog over actual scientists with peer review research? Get over yourself.

(Score:-1, Ignorant Cunt)

Re:FIAF. (1)

martin-boundary (547041) | about 8 months ago | (#44780191)

Well the conclusion for non scientists is obvious. There's going to be a market to extract Julia Roberts' gut bacteria and reinject them into a bunch of fat one percenters for millions of dollars a pop.

Re:FIAF. (4, Insightful)

hamburger lady (218108) | about 8 months ago | (#44780203)

yeah, i doubt the authors of the Science study above read any relevant literature at all.

Re:FIAF. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780357)

yeah, i doubt the authors of the Science study above read any relevant literature at all.

Seriously, they didn't even cite that 6-year-old blog post from a veterinarian! They probably don't even know how to use an internet! How did they get published in such a high profile journal?

Re:FIAF. (3, Insightful)

smaddox (928261) | about 8 months ago | (#44780395)

You'd be surprised what kind of crap gets published in Science and Nature - and any other peer reviewed journal, for that matter. My favorite is lasers that don't actually lase. We see those all the time.

Re:FIAF. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780491)

You'd be surprised what kind of crap gets published in Science and Nature - and any other peer reviewed journal, for that matter. My favorite is lasers that don't actually lase. We see those all the time.

No, I wouldn't be surprised, I've seen it and lived it (including the non-lasing lasers you speak of!). Sad thing is that I'm about to reject a paper I'm currently reviewing not because of the science (which is sound) but because it's so poorly written as to be almost unreadable. The problem is that there are people who learn how to wave their hands really well and make lots of friends who help pass this tripe through the peer review process, and many decent scientists who don't write "too good."

[sigh]

Re:FIAF. (5, Insightful)

hamburger lady (218108) | about 8 months ago | (#44780515)

You'd be surprised what kind of crap gets published in Science and Nature

certainly it's garbage compared to a blog post by a veterinarian.

Re:FIAF. (2)

TechyImmigrant (175943) | about 8 months ago | (#44780647)

Better a vet with an encyclopedic knowledge of biochemistry than an anonymous coward.

Re:FIAF. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780685)

Better a vet with an encyclopedic knowledge of biochemistry than an anonymous coward.

At least anonymous coward posts are peer reviewed.

Re:FIAF. (2)

Gninnaf (1195591) | about 8 months ago | (#44780487)

I think they might have it backwards. If the gut bacteria is more efficient more nutrients are extracted which can be converted and stored by the body making you fat not slim.

Re:FIAF. (3, Informative)

RMingin (985478) | about 8 months ago | (#44780727)

Gut bacteria feed themselves, not you.

More efficient or effective gut bacteria eat your lunch before you can.

While in our overfed society, having hyperactive gut bacteria keeping you thin would be good, fatties would be laughing in a major disaster, since they'd get to enjoy more of that roadkill dinner they scavenged, and they'd have longer reserves for the initial disaster and the ensuing survival training course.

Now if we could just toggle between two sets of bacteria, we'd have a pretty ideal setup!

Re:FIAF. (1)

ohnocitizen (1951674) | about 8 months ago | (#44780489)

Of course it is a French thing. Those thin scientists at the French Institute Alliance Française have come up with a way to make Americans thin... But to what end?!

Oh look the d word (4, Insightful)

trdtaylor (2664195) | about 8 months ago | (#44779757)

"However, the diet was also important for creating the right conditions for the lean twin's bacteria to flourish. A bacterial obesity therapy seems unlikely to work alongside a a diet of greasy burgers."

Guess what, proper diet still required. /surprise.

Re:Oh look the d word (1)

alen (225700) | about 8 months ago | (#44779767)

lesson?

don't eat junk food. crap like soda acidifies your stomach more than it needs to and kills good bacteria

Re:Oh look the d word (4, Funny)

ackthpt (218170) | about 8 months ago | (#44779861)

lesson?

don't eat junk food. crap like soda acidifies your stomach more than it needs to and kills good bacteria

I'd suggest eating more beans and lentils, but we've already argued about global warming today.

Re:Oh look the d word (3, Funny)

Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) | about 8 months ago | (#44780077)

lesson?

don't eat junk food. crap like soda acidifies your stomach more than it needs to and kills good bacteria

I'd suggest eating more beans and lentils, but we've already argued about global warming today.

Don't forget about the latest "super-foods" like quinoa and the like. But I digest.

Re:Oh look the d word (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780129)

PH of a very acidic soda = 2.522, PH of stomach acid = 1.35

Don't blame the soda for having an acidic stomach.

Re:Oh look the d word (2)

nitehawk214 (222219) | about 8 months ago | (#44780539)

PH of a very acidic soda = 2.522, PH of stomach acid = 1.35

Don't blame the soda for having an acidic stomach.

If you drink something acidic, the total acidity level of your stomach will be more than if you drink water.

Re:Oh look the d word (2)

smaddox (928261) | about 8 months ago | (#44780425)

And you're basing that on..... what? Maybe you're right, but I've never seen any evidence that suggests that this is true.

Sodas are bad for you because they contain ~32 grams of sugar per 12 oz can, AND people regularly drink several cans in one sitting. That much sugar is extremely bad for you. To learn why, watch this video. [youtu.be]

Re:Oh look the d word (0)

FrankSchwab (675585) | about 8 months ago | (#44779995)

However, the diet was also important for creating the right conditions for the lean twin's bacteria to flourish. A bacterial obesity therapy seems unlikely to work alongside a a diet of greasy burgers.

Having read TFA, there is precisely zero evidence to support this statement. Simply a restatement of the current mythology surrounding diet and weight.

Re:Oh look the d word (2)

Immerman (2627577) | about 8 months ago | (#44780243)

No? How about the very next paragraphs:

Keeping both sets of mice in the same cage kept them both lean if they were fed a low-fat, high-fibre diet. Mice are coprophagic, meaning they eat each other's droppings, and the lean twin's bacteria were passed into the mice which started with bacteria that should have made them obese.

However, a high-fat, low-fibre diet meant the mice still piled on the pounds.

Re:Oh look the d word (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780431)

Keeping both sets of mice in the same cage kept them both lean if they were fed a low-fat, high-fibre diet. Mice are coprophagic, meaning they eat each other's droppings, and the lean twin's bacteria were passed into the mice which started with bacteria that should have made them obese.

So, if you have two girls and only one cup, as long as one of them is not a fat chick, then eventually you'll have two skinny chicks?
There could be a serious market for this shit...

Re:Oh look the d word (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780843)

So, if you have two girls and only one cup, as long as one of them is not a fat chick, then eventually you'll have two skinny chicks?
There could be a serious market for this shit...

No, but if you felch a skinny faggot you might lose weight. There's a market for that, too.

Another excuse? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44779781)

So now instead of saying 'I have big bones', one can say 'I just got veeeery hungry gut bacteria!'?

Re:Another excuse? (1)

pirix (853140) | about 8 months ago | (#44780105)

It's not an excuse, it's a reason.

Re:Another excuse? (1)

drkstr1 (2072368) | about 8 months ago | (#44780231)

Actually, no. Laziness and/or lack of discipline is the reason for being over weight. While it may be more difficult for people who are "naturally fat" (such as myself) to get fit and toned, putting in the required effort does in fact work. Not only that, you will have a better body than people who are "naturally skinny." I used to weigh 300 lbs @ 6'6" before I started doing martial arts. It's only been a year and I'm down to 235. I pound the crap out of the skinny guys (all in good fun of course). The key to getting fit is finding a physical activity you enjoy, and try to be the best at it. I don't eat well because I want to lose weight. I do it because I want to be good at martial arts.

Re:Another excuse? (1)

Jarik C-Bol (894741) | about 8 months ago | (#44780361)

You just have to get used to being 7/8ths miserable 9/10ths of the time, and you can suffer your way to being attractive in a matter of a few years! Yeah sure, its all 'no pain no gain' but your average human can only take so much self inflicted punishment before saying 'screw it, I just want to be comfortable for a day or two'. And then you loose all that hard earned progress. .

Re:Another excuse? (1)

demonlapin (527802) | about 8 months ago | (#44780589)

AKA, why I went on a ketogenic diet and haven't been hungry since. Doesn't work for everyone, some people just can't do it. But if you can, it's magic.

Re: Another excuse? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780735)

You know, I think you're right, but also wrong. Most good habits are difficult to start; bad difficult to stop. I smoke. I'm quitting. Some days I just want to be comfortable instead of miserable 7/8 of the time, but if I do, I'll backslide. It's worth it. I also used to have a hell of a time with mornings. Now I don't, unless I allow a few sleep-in days, and then I backslide. NOT worth it.

The word "predisposed" is one classy bitch, but some things are worth the effort, or misery, to combat.

Re:Another excuse? (2)

pirix (853140) | about 8 months ago | (#44780385)

Actually, yes. I didn't say it was THE reason, I said it was a reason. You're suggesting that there's only one reason for being overweight. The study referenced above disputes that argument. Please note that I am in no way saying that leading a sedentary lifestyle and eating too much or the wrong things are also causes of obesity. Obviously they are, and major ones. But the data seems to suggest that it's more complicated than that.

Re:Another excuse? (1)

ppanon (16583) | about 8 months ago | (#44780693)

An interesting follow up question would be, assuming you already have the bacteria well installed in your gut, are there any things in a modern diet besides fat that causes them to be less successful (than the other gut bacteria) or even die out? How do they respond to long-term trace levels of Roundup or neonicotinoid pesticides? HFCS? Ammonia or cyanide from processed meat products? Substantial sodium levels? How about any number of preservatives or other additives found in typical modern Western processed foods? Heck, even ice-cold water?

Re:Another excuse? (1)

drkstr1 (2072368) | about 8 months ago | (#44780875)

I didn't mean to sound insensitive. I agree there are many reasons why it can it can be harder for some people to lose weight. I know I have to work very hard at it, and I will never be as thin as some people. At the end of the day, I have never met an obese person who ate healthy and exercised. You can always try harder. That's the one reason we have control over, and the only one that matters. Maybe there really are reasons that make it impossible to lose weight. Probably more often than not it's simply a matter of will, and how badly you want it.

Hand Sanitizer (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44779783)

I'm thinking increasing usage of Hand sanitizer is killing our gut bacteria. Is there any correlation to this ?

Re:Hand Sanitizer (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44779837)

alcohol is hand sanitizer number one

Re:Hand Sanitizer (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44779845)

I'm thinking no.

Re:Hand Sanitizer (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44779871)

I'm thinking increasing usage of Hand sanitizer is killing our gut bacteria

So you're the reason the bottle says "for external use only" on it...

Re:Hand Sanitizer (1)

hduff (570443) | about 8 months ago | (#44779987)

I'm thinking increasing usage of Hand sanitizer is killing our gut bacteria. Is there any correlation to this ?

I blame it on Jenny McCarthy.

Re:Hand Sanitizer (5, Interesting)

transporter_ii (986545) | about 8 months ago | (#44780145)

No. It's antibiotics. Blaming it on hand cleaner is like running your AC, but complaining about how much charging your cell phone is running up your electric bill.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/antibiotics-may-help-make-you-fat-studies-show-958812 [nbcnews.com]

Could antibiotics make you fat?

Two studies this week suggest that using antibiotics may save people’s lives, but could also change their metabolisms. Put together, the studies suggest that taking antibiotics might alter digestion to help people absorb calories from food they normally would be unable to digest.

Every human carries pounds of microorganisms that we couldn’t live without. They break down food and extract nutrients like Vitamin K for us. Antibiotics will kill some of these beneficial organisms, which is why so many doctors now tell patients to eat yogurt after taking a course of the drugs, to replace some of the good guys.

Mind over Matter (3, Funny)

ackthpt (218170) | about 8 months ago | (#44779789)

I decide how much to eat and when, thus maintaining a healthy BMI and I get out and exercise frequently.

BTW it's Friday, time for my customary run to the beer fridge.

Re:Mind over Matter (4, Interesting)

MyLongNickName (822545) | about 8 months ago | (#44779913)

It isn't quite as easy as you might indicate.

I'm 40 and eat a better balanced diet than when I was 20. I exercise, but weight has gradually increased over time. I was at the bottom end of normal for what BMI charts say I should have been @ age 20. I am now about 15 lbs into the "overweight". My doc says I am fine because I have more muscle, but he wants me to hold the line.

I made some changes to exercise, working out 5 times a week in the morning and cutting out all soft drinks and after dinner snacking. I dropped 5 lbs in two weeks. i was hydrating a lot so it wasn't water that caused the drop.

After two weeks, same diet same exercise I dropped 5 more pounds in two weeks. I was feeling great. I was hoping for another 10. But guess what? Two months later, same diet same exercise I didn't drop a single pound. I am not sure how to explain it. It is like my body reached a certain point and compensated for the caloric drop by going into a lower metabolism rate.

When I was 20 I couldn't gain weight no matter what. Now, I know that 160# is a place that my body just doesn't want to drop below. I understand that I could increase exercise more or cut out even more food... but is it worth it?

I am convinced that BMI might be a guideline, but it isn't gospel. I can still run a mile at a good clip and keep up with the kids. What am I gaining by dropping into a somewhat arbitrary scale if I am healthy already?

I hit 190 and stay there (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | about 8 months ago | (#44779971)

even with 200+ miles on a bike a week I won't go below that.

Re:I hit 190 and stay there (3, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | about 8 months ago | (#44780003)

even with 200+ miles on a bike a week I won't go below that.

Math doesn't argue, you're taking in what you burn in Calories. You are not keeping that weight on by inhaling too much air.

When I rode a road bike I was always around 165. Now I'm about 190, but don't get that level of aerobic workout anymore. But I remember well how much I ate and how I went to bed hungry so I wouldn't be towing a 5 extra pounds of lard up some of the California hills.

Re:I hit 190 and stay there (1)

pepty (1976012) | about 8 months ago | (#44780297)

math doesn't argue: if you lose a significant amount of weight (~10% of your bodyweight or more) your basal metabolism drops and your appetite increases: you will burn fewer calories for a given activity level. You undergo hormonal changes related to those experienced by people who are starving. You have to keep the weight off for six months to a year or more before your body considers your situation to be "normal" again. During that time you will burn fewer calories at a given activity level than someone who is identical to you except that they never gained/lost that weight. So yes, there is a reason it's hard to lose more than a little weight, and it's even harder to keep it off.

Re:Mind over Matter (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780051)

BMI is a guideline, but it's a poorly applied one. The scale is designed for comparing nursing home patients who are completely sedentary. If you walk a couple miles a day you're officially too active for BMI to make much sense.

Re:Mind over Matter (1)

ackthpt (218170) | about 8 months ago | (#44780267)

BMI is a guideline, but it's a poorly applied one. The scale is designed for comparing nursing home patients who are completely sedentary. If you walk a couple miles a day you're officially too active for BMI to make much sense.

I have people trying to argue with me all the time, regarding how much BS the BMI calculation is when they are an NFL nose tackle, capable of benching 500 lbs, but the numbers can't distinguish them from a fanboi who dines on Cheetos and Pepsi morning, noon and night.

Total agreement, that's why Aerobic activity is included with BMI for a valid measure.

Re:Mind over Matter (2)

smaddox (928261) | about 8 months ago | (#44780485)

If you really want to lose fat, supposedly strength training at ~80% your single rep maximum is the way to go. There's been some research that shows it's the most effective workout for weight loss. Depending on your current body type, you might add more muscle mass than you lose from fat, though.

Also, cut out as much sugar (particularly fructose containing sugars) [youtu.be] from your diet as possible.

Re:Mind over Matter (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780571)

I'm 40 and eat a better balanced diet than when I was 20. I exercise, but weight has gradually increased over time.

I hope you realize that "eat a better balanced diet than when I was 20" and "I exercise" are merely indicators of the relative healthiness of your lifestyle, and in no way indicators that you have an objectively healthy lifestyle. If you used to eat fast food 5 times a week but cut it down to twice a week, that is still too much fast food. Same with exercise -- it is possible to do what many people consider exercise and accomplish practically nothing.

BMI isn't gospel. But neither is "eat better" or "exercise".

If you still live within the norms of American diet and activity levels -- i.e. most people wouldn't consider you a bit of a health nut -- the explanation for your lack of weight loss may simply be that you are consuming too many calories and not getting enough physical activity. Running one mile at a good clip may be an indicator that you are not drastically out of shape, but that is about it. Most people can't do it, but most people are drastically out of shape.

Re:Mind over Matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780711)

Yup, it is relative. That is the point of the OP. His relative healthy lifestyle is improving. His weight in increasing.

Re:Mind over Matter (1)

whoever57 (658626) | about 8 months ago | (#44780841)

I seem to have hit the reverse effect. About 10-20 years ago, I put on quite a bit of weight, but my weight has been the same for years (~ 200 pounds and I am 6'0) , despite not worrying about what I eat and without a significant amount of exercise.

I don't understand what is going on, but I am very happy to not have significant weight gain for the past decade.

Re:Mind over Matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780001)

Congratulations and thanks for letting us all know you're not like those fat lazy people with no will or self control, since everyone who has weight issues clearly did it to themselves.

Re:Mind over Matter (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780091)

Yeah, you did. Unless you're a fucking miracle of science to whom the laws of thermodynamics do not apply, if you're overweight, you ate more than you used. Which is ... your fault.

Fat people are fat because they have no self-control. Period.

Yeah, sure, blame some "medical condition" that affects 0.01% of the population - one that even if you did have, it'd still be YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to control - but whatever you do, don't accept any sort of responsibility for your own life.

Even if gut bacteria has some effect, it's still YOUR RESPONSIBILITY for eating right for YOUR body.

If you don't - yeah, you're lazy. Just admit it.

fat guys ... (2, Funny)

vivek7006 (585218) | about 8 months ago | (#44779815)

We need more butt fucking with thin women to spread gut bacteria!

Re:fat guys ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44779885)

You're close, but wrong. Think about it a little more.

Re:fat guys ... (4, Funny)

houstonbofh (602064) | about 8 months ago | (#44780197)

So where is that guy who always talks about eating out people's assholes? The ONE TIME he would be on topic...

Re:fat guys ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44779909)

You got very close to how I imagined how one's gut bacteria got into someone else's gut in the first place... French Ass-Kissing?

Or did some researcher do the effective equivalent by packaging the bacteria ( along with its nutrient medium aka excreta ) in a gelatin capsule?

I wonder if this study was the result of a dare to get someone to eat someone else's $#!+.

Ayn Randius Greedatoria (5, Funny)

Tablizer (95088) | about 8 months ago | (#44779825)

So I'm chubby because I have socialist bacteria in me? I'm gonna hafta swallow a little Fox News TV for the buggers.

Extracting nutrients (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44779833)

If gut bacteria extracts more nutrients, doesn't this mean that the body would absorb more calories and gain weight?

Re:Extracting nutrients (2)

PPH (736903) | about 8 months ago | (#44779945)

From my understanding of the article, more efficient gut bacteria convert food into forms more readily burned and less stored as fat.

Re:Extracting nutrients (1)

hedwards (940851) | about 8 months ago | (#44779951)

That's what I was curious about. Obviously, there's something more going on here, because it's not the amount of food you eat, or even the type, that determines if you get fat, it's what sort of surplus or deficit you're running after the food gets digested that ultimately matters.

And more efficient or less efficient bacteria would only dictate how much food you would have to consume to absorb a certain number of calories, not how much of it winds up being stored as fat.

My new motto (5, Funny)

Subacultcha (921910) | about 8 months ago | (#44779841)

I'm not fat. I'm just more efficient at extracting nutrients than you.

Re:My new motto (1)

ackthpt (218170) | about 8 months ago | (#44779915)

I'm not fat. I'm just more efficient at extracting nutrients than you.

Therefore you should eat less as your very efficient metabolism means you waste less

Good for you.

I have one of those darn inefficient metabolisms and eat like a chowhound without gaining a pound.

are you going to do anything with that 50lb sack of sugar?

Re:My new motto (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780199)

Isn't it true that you consumed a ten-pound bag of flour when no other food was available?

Re: My new motto (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44779925)

backwards

Re:My new motto ... is bass ackwards (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44779927)

I'm not fat. I'm just more efficient at extracting nutrients than you.

I conclude fat people do not know how to read and comprehend.

Re:My new motto (1, Informative)

MyLongNickName (822545) | about 8 months ago | (#44779937)

You might wat to brush up on the reading skills. Skinny people have the more efficient bacteria.

Re:My new motto (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780479)

You might wat to brush up on your sense of humor skills...

Who is really healthy though? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44779887)

Are the thin people actually healthy or are they just... thin. When they hit old age will they have the energy to climb a flight of stairs, or will their gut bacteria be eating it all?

Obesity is supposed to be adaptive, right? What if the conditions for which it's adaptive (long periods of little food) occur? Who will be the better survivors. Don't think it can't happen here. We're just one Monsanto fuck-up, a war, and dictatorship away...

Re:Who is really healthy though? (1)

hedwards (940851) | about 8 months ago | (#44779993)

Obesity isn't supposed to be adaptive. Humans evolved during a time when we couldn't know when our next meal was coming and so we go to be very efficient at storing the excess fat. The problem is that people generally eat 3 times a day, or more, regardless of whether or not they're hungry. And when they do eat, they tend to eat more than what they need to survive.

In the conditions we evolved in, the effect over all is that we wouldn't wind up obese because we wouldn't get to over eat endlessly, at some point we'd spend a period starving and burn the calories.

Also, our ancestors spent a lot less time with butt planted in chair, if the wanted to sit, most of the time they would just crouch. Even today, it's common for people in the developing world to crouch for long periods of time.

What other factors ... (1)

Alan R Light (1277886) | about 8 months ago | (#44779923)

Curious but not entirely unexpected. We are only beginning to understand the microbiome, but clearly it is important.

I wonder if cold weather might affect our gut bacteria too. I have unintentionally lost a good deal of weight in a short time in a cold, dry environment (at least 30 pounds in three months), but regained it when returning to a hot, humid climate. Of course, the cold weather also burned more calories - but I also ate a good deal more than usual. More notably, I note that people living in hot, humid environments often tend to put on weight more than those in colder climates - but there are likely many other factors.

Re:What other factors ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780669)

I'm betting you are looking at climate when the difference is really the location and its other cultural differences. In the past, I've noticed the exact opposite: lots of fat people in cold climates (in Western countries) and lots of skinny people in the tropics (in the developing world). But you see the correlation breaks down if you look further and notice lots of fat people wherever they are given sedentary lifestyles and a surplus of food, versus lots of skinny people wherever they are physically active or have less food.

Conclusion Makes No Sense (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780007)

So the mice became obese after being injected with gut bacteria from obese people. But the mice that were injected with gut bacteria from non-obese people did not. Or put another way, before the injection the mice were not obese, and after the injection the mice were still not obese. Since those mice experienced no change whatsoever, it makes no sense to conclude that the non-obese bacteria is more efficient at extracting nutrients. If that was the reason for the change, shouldn't there be some difference after the injection of the non-obese bacteria?

Correlation is not causation... (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780009)

Oh, goody, it's another one of those dumb-ass "it's not my fault" articles that tries to excuse fat fucks for being fat fucks.

Here's a clue: it's not your gut bacteria, you're not big boned, you don't have an impossibly rare medical condition: you eat too much and never exercise.

Stop trying to find bullshit medical reasons, take on some personal responsibility, eat right, exercise daily, and you'll find that - gasp - it really was your own fucking fault!

OK, so we've determined that the gut bacteria in a fat fuck is different from that in a healthy person. Great. Have we demonstrated yet that it isn't just the bacteria has adapted to living in a fat fuck? Because my money is on the bacteria adapting to its surroundings rather than the other way around. Give it too many nutrients (overeat) and it'll stop wasting as much energy extracting nutrients. Do the opposite, and it'll have to adapt to survive.

Or, to put it another way: correlation is not causation.

Re:Correlation is not causation... (-1, Troll)

EmagGeek (574360) | about 8 months ago | (#44780085)

Wish I had mod points because this deserves to be +500000.

Re:Correlation is not causation... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780239)

I wish I had mod points. You useless post deserves to be -1.

Re:Correlation is not causation... (2)

dfsmith (960400) | about 8 months ago | (#44780263)

Here's a clue: [rant deleted]: you eat too much and never exercise.

To quote the article:

Mice with the obese twin's bacteria became heavier and put on more fat than mice given bacteria from a lean twin - and it was not down to the amount of food being eaten.

Next please....

Read the paper, it's not just correlation (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780289)

By careful work with mice, their experiment does indeed demonstrate causation. It was a very clever series of experiments, which is probably why it was accepted into the journal Science. Step back a bit and think: how likely is it that reviewers for Science--probably some of the world's top scientists--missed something as basic and as obvious as correlation != causation?

By the way, this subject seems to generate an angry, viceral reaction for you. Why is that? Does your self-worth revolve around feeling superior to fat people?

Re:Read the paper, it's not just correlation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780737)

By careful work with mice, their experiment does indeed demonstrate causation.

Bullshit it did. It showed that moving fat fuck bacteria into a mouse can make the mouse gain weight. Which is nice to know, but it doesn't demonstrate the same fact in people and it also doesn't demonstrate that you're not seeing a feedback effect, just like you do with antibacterials and bacteria.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised your fatass brain can't grasp this, but I'll try anyway: you have gut bacteria. Some of it is very efficient at extracting nutrients, some of it isn't. In a fit person, only the efficient ones can survive, because there aren't enough nutrients for the inefficient ones. In the fat fuck, both can survive, but the inefficient ones probably outbreed the efficient ones because the more efficient ones have to lose something in the process.

So you move fat fuck bacteria to a mouse, it doesn't extract as many nutrients, allowing the mouse to gain weight. Great - sounds plausible.

But does that mean that it's the bacteria making the fat fuck fat? Fuck no!

It's the sedentary lifestyle and the poor eating habits. Period.

And that very well could drive a feedback loop, making it easier for someone who is fat to stay fat. Which still makes it entirely their fault for becoming fat in the first place and not stopping the feedback loop before it really started.

By the way, this subject seems to generate an angry, viceral reaction for you. Why is that? Does your self-worth revolve around feeling superior to fat people?

Don't worry, I already know I'm superior to fat people, because I have self control. No, what gets the angry reaction is our culture of "feel good, not-my-fault"-ism where we try and deflect personal responsibility for everything and blame anything and everything we can for our own failings. "Oh, it's not my fault I'm fat, it's my gut bacteria!" Bullshit. Take responsibility for your own poor life choices.

You know what would be an interesting example of correlation? The correlation between the "self esteem" movement and obesity, because you can bet there is one.

And how do you cultivate good bacteria? (0)

dmt0 (1295725) | about 8 months ago | (#44780039)

And how do you cultivate good bacteria?
Don't eat junk.

Re:And how do you cultivate good bacteria? (1)

sexconker (1179573) | about 8 months ago | (#44780211)

And how do you cultivate good bacteria?

Don't eat junk.

Stardocking.
Google it.

Re:And how do you cultivate good bacteria? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780831)

Oh god no! Don't google it!

Re:And how do you cultivate good bacteria? (1)

mattack2 (1165421) | about 8 months ago | (#44780623)

Buy some yogurt?

Re:And how do you cultivate good bacteria? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780671)

That'll work, until you eat some bread with commercial thermophile yeast in it, that will suppress the microflora. And than you've got antibiotics in your milk. Than any time you combine food that takes long time to digest with sugars, you get fermentation, that destroys it again. Many other factors. Basically you need to have a pretty good diet overall to keep you gut microflora in good shape.

Re:And how do you cultivate good bacteria? (1)

mattack2 (1165421) | about 8 months ago | (#44780695)

I was joking, I meant the bacteria *in* the yogurt, not necessarily after you eat it.

Backwards conclusion? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780303)

Shouldn't that be reversed? Seems to me that obese people could be extracting more energy from their food, leading in part to their obesity. Thin people might be getting less caloric content which would contribute to their thinness.

tl;dr

I'm still not clear on how the gut bacterial transfer helps decide matters.

So obese people should eat... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780387)

So according to the article obese people should essentially start eating and drinking yogurt as opposed to say greasy cheese burgers? I couldn't agree more.

Parasites keep you thin. (2)

pubwvj (1045960) | about 8 months ago | (#44780791)

It has long been recognized in farming that parasites keep animals thin. Same for people. Gee!

evolutionarily (5, Interesting)

stenvar (2789879) | about 8 months ago | (#44780839)

In evolution, one of the biggest threats to humans was starvation. So, what we consider a fat-causing problem these days probably used to be a big evolutionary advantage at some point.

Learn to toss salid anyone??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#44780899)

So what your telling me is if I want to loose weight all I need to do is get a skinny Girl(s) and start tossing some salad???
Momma always said eat more salid.

Being Slashdot a sticking to diet is probably statically more likelyr???

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