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Time For X-No-Wiretap HTTP Header?

timothy posted 1 year,7 days | from the tongue-boring-through-cheek dept.

The Internet 202

Freshly Exhumed writes "A security blogger, acknowledging that the NSA methodically ranks communications on the basis of their 'foreignness' factor to determine candidacy for prolonged retention proposes, is proposing '...an opportunity for us on the civilian front to aid the NSA by voluntarily indicating citizenship on all our networked communications. Here, we define the syntax and semantics of X-No-Wiretap, a HTTP header-based mechanism for indicating and proving citizenship to well-intentioned man-in-the-middle parties. It is inspired by the enormously successful RFC 3514 IPv4 Security Flag and HTTP DNT header.'"

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202 comments

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First dick! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790053)

Gay sex is a myth!

Do you think this will stop NSAGul Black Riders? (5, Insightful)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790423)

They are already deliberately violating the law, with impunity. They compromise your security at every step. Adding un-encrypted metadata to your traffic will only:
1 - ID you for possible actions by later custodians of this information
2 - Acknowledge your silent submission to the fact of universal collection as a normative state
3 - Divert efforts from real crypto-countermeasures [slashdot.org]

People need not to give NSA their complicity and assent, but to resist, and applaud every time somebody manages to FUCK UP their mission.

Re:Do you think this will stop NSAGul Black Riders (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44791067)

Your comment is only testament to the fact that Slashdot readers do not RTFA.

AH! THE "PAPERS PLEASE" HEADER (0)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790445)

Where do I sign up for THIS new Trojan horse?

First (0, Offtopic)

jfdavis668 (1414919) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790055)

Had to do it after http://xkcd.com/1258/ [xkcd.com]

Re:First (0)

PPH (736903) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790269)

April First, that is.

Re:First (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790615)

I just lost the game.

Asking them nicely will stop help? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790065)

The only way we are going to solve this NSA mess is to clean house...and the senate...

Re:Asking them nicely will stop help? (5, Insightful)

Oysterville (2944937) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790209)

Somewhere along the line you were given the incorrect information that the US House and Senate have complete oversight of NSA, when in reality it's more accurately the other way around.

Re:Asking them nicely will stop help? (2)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790429)

NSA.

Amerika's blackmail clearinghouse.

Re:Asking them nicely will stop help? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790499)

The House and Senate do have oversight of the NSA. If only because they can just cut off funding and fire the NSA at will. That is oversight. If they want the NSA to stop doing something, they have only to tell them to stop and back it up by cutting funding.

Re:Asking them nicely will stop help? (2, Insightful)

Z00L00K (682162) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790599)

Unfortunately the NSA has enough on every individual in the government to make such a move extremely dangerous for the single individual.

NSA, CIA, FBI and DoD have their own life and nobody that is sane would want to challenge them. We have to wait for the insane savior.

Re:Asking them nicely will stop help? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790665)

The House and Senate do have oversight of the NSA. If only because they can just cut off funding and fire the NSA at will.

No, they can't. Our overly corrupt president would simply write one of his "executive royal decrees" to give them all the "emergency" funding they need.

Re:Asking them nicely will stop help? (1)

jonbryce (703250) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790587)

They do have the power to reduce the NSA budget to $0, which is about the most effective oversight possible.

Re:Asking them nicely will stop help? (1)

Pentium100 (1240090) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790781)

And then some information from the NSA servers about the politicians who initiated this would mysteriously find its way to WikiLeaks...

Re:Asking them nicely will stop help? (1, Insightful)

fustakrakich (1673220) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790855)

Oh please, stop with this 'cut off funding' crap. It's a tear drop in the ocean. Most of NSA and CIA funding comes from the transport and sale of contraband, weapons, drugs, any other 'controlled' substance, and money laundering through the banks [theguardian.com] . Or do you actually believe that the Iran/Contra hearings put a stop to it? They are rogues in every sense of the word, and now they have the power to keep it going indefinitely.

Re:Asking them nicely will stop help? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790549)

The only way we are going to solve this NSA mess is to clean house...and the senate...

That's a good place to start. Now, what to do with those individuals after we remove them from office? Surely we need to make an example of the lot of them, no?

Re:Asking them nicely will stop help? (1)

davester666 (731373) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790751)

I believe there are still some spaces available in Gitmo...

And it would give them an opportunity to get a better understanding of the "enhanced interrogation methods" they are so proud of permitting.

April 1st? (1)

alexandre (53) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790077)

Someone can't set their date properly? :P

Re:April 1st? (1)

t4ng* (1092951) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790383)

The beauty of this is that people who don't RTFA enitrely, will out themselves by complaining how stupid this idea is.

Almost as good as Evil BIt! (5, Insightful)

CrystalFalcon (233559) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790081)

Yes, of course!

This is guaranteed to work almost as good as the Evil Bit, an extra field in IPv4 headers where senders of packets indicate malicious intent, so that people administering firewalls can discard such packets if desired.

(The problem in the first place was that the people wiretapping didn't give a shit about rules, etiquette, and being decent. More rules and etiquette aren't the solution to that problem.)

Rick

Re:Almost as good as Evil BIt! (0, Flamebait)

geek (5680) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790109)

Yes, of course!

This is guaranteed to work almost as good as the Evil Bit, an extra field in IPv4 headers where senders of packets indicate malicious intent, so that people administering firewalls can discard such packets if desired.

(The problem in the first place was that the people wiretapping didn't give a shit about rules, etiquette, and being decent. More rules and etiquette aren't the solution to that problem.)

Rick

And yet people still pass laws to try and stop gun ownership. I mean clearly criminals obey the law and stop shooting people when we pass laws telling them not too. So why not include a header on our websites telling the NSA not to spy on us?

Re:Almost as good as Evil BIt! (0)

gigaherz (2653757) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790149)

If the general population doesn't have have guns, then someone who DOES carry a gun, and isn't in a police/guard uniform, must be evil. It makes things much simpler.

Re:Almost as good as Evil BIt! (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790437)

If the general population doesn't have have guns, then someone who DOES carry a gun, and isn't in a police/guard uniform, must be evil. It makes things much simpler.

Indeed it does. If the bad guy acquires a uniform, he can carry his illegal gun wherever he wants without suspicion.

Oh, you meant simpler for us? Yeah, the world doesn't work like that.

Re:Almost as good as Evil BIt! (0)

hedwards (940851) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790749)

You must be a gun nut. Requiring that they also get the uniform on top of the weapon would greatly reduce the likelihood of a shooting spree. What's more, it would cut gun related suicides down to practically nothing.

There is no perfect solution, but that does not mean that we shouldn't be looking for better solutions. And ultimately, the more inconvenient it is to procure the necessary supplies, the more likely it is that somebody is going to notice something suspicious before it happens.

Re:Almost as good as Evil BIt! (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790145)

For futureproofing, this should be generalized to an X-No-Evil header, optionally followed by a parameter list of evil the user does or does not want. Should the parameters be a whitelist or blacklist?

Re:Almost as good as Evil BIt! (2)

MtHuurne (602934) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790291)

The "evil bit" is from the mentioned RFC 3514 [rfc-editor.org] .

Re: Almost as good as Evil BIt! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790401)

What about X-these-arnt-the-droids-your-looking-for ?

Really ?!? An X-header for this... Wtf

Re:Almost as good as Evil BIt! (3, Informative)

Vlad_the_Inhaler (32958) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790475)

The Evil Bit [ietf.org] is only defined under IPV4, time to update the specs.

Re:Almost as good as Evil BIt! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790487)

Add */Evil *TLA* to the robots.NSA file and encrypt.

Dangerous Crypto mistake - my testing results (3, Funny)

Freshly Exhumed (105597) | 1 year,7 days | (#44791019)

When I saw that this proposal "deprecates all the SSL/TLS ciphers in favor of Double CAESAR’13" (a.k.a. ROT-13) I knew it was going to be great. BTW, a big shoutout to my friends over in the Caesarian section! Okay, so I needed to run some sandboxed tests first. After using Double ROT-13 everything was going perfectly, according to the spec, but I decided to gamble on TRIPLE ROT-13. Big mistake. Don't do it! All I ended up with was a bunch of gobbledegook that I couldn't work with anymore, so I had to just delete everything and start all over again. Don't use TRIPLE ROT-13!!!!!!!1

I wish I could have been FP to warn everyone. I'm glad this proposal sticks with Double!

Yea (1)

santosh.k83 (2442182) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790099)

It'll certainly flag the packets to NSA as deserving of extra long retention!

You don't beg for privacy (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790115)

You secure it by force.

Re:You don't beg for privacy (1)

stooo (2202012) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790277)

Yes, exactly.
it's more than time for generic and generalized end to end crypto. And for a working web of trust PKI.

Re:You don't beg for privacy (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790323)

You secure it by force.

With guns.

NOW do you "liberals" and "progressives" understand the 2nd Amendment?

Nahhh, you'd rather have a government big and powerful enough to "solve" all your problems, wouldn't you?

Re:You don't beg for privacy (1)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790435)

Have fun, when the SWAT team comes. :-)

Re:You don't beg for privacy (-1, Troll)

volpe (58112) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790441)

Go ahead and storm the NSA headquarters in Ft. Meade with guns blazing, demanding your privacy. Let us know how that turns out.

Meanwhile, the rest of us will continue trying to prevent the next Columbine, Virginia Tech, Oak Creek, Aurora, Tuscon, Newtown, etc.

Re:You don't beg for privacy (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790517)

You don't storm the headquarters. You assassinate the leaders when they're alone.

Re:You don't beg for privacy (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790697)

I guess all that time spent playing Deus Ex and Dishonored was not a waste after all...

Re:You don't beg for privacy (1)

hedwards (940851) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790763)

Right, because obviously there's no way of replacing them and the government doesn't have money for bodyguards.

Re:You don't beg for privacy (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790881)

A severed horse head in the bed may be effective.

Re:You don't beg for privacy (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790411)

that you Darth?

Wrong date (0)

cellocgw (617879) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790117)

What, is it April 1st again already?

I'm waiting for a header protocol that can tell when it's been intercepted or collected, and proceeds to blow up the TLA server on which it resides.

Re:Wrong date (0)

DarkOx (621550) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790215)

In Soviet America its always April 1st.

Re:Wrong date (0)

stooo (2202012) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790293)

No, in Sovit countries it's 1. May, not 1. April.

Re:Wrong date (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790335)

What, is it April 1st again already?
From the year 2013 there will be two April 1st. in every year... spaced almost evenly apart.

Constructive Internet Driver License (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790129)

prove otherwise.

X-No-Wiretap (1)

gigaherz (2653757) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790143)

Will be a header code that says "do wiretap me, I have something interesting to hide!"

Re:X-No-Wiretap (1)

Spamalope (91802) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790771)

It's like emailing an 'unsubscribe' message to spammers, and will work as well.

Re:X-No-Wiretap (1)

KiloByte (825081) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790871)

It's like emailing an 'unsubscribe' message to spammers, and will work as well.

Actually, it works pretty well. Obviously, you use a spamtrap account rather than your own as the sender. For best effects, make two: aaron@example.com and zzyx@example.com, to ensure your spam filter has a chance to autolearn first (most spammers sort their databases).

WTF? (1)

H0p313ss (811249) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790157)

No seriously... WTF?

How could this be anything other than a flamebait article Tim?

Re:WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790251)

No seriously... WTF?

How could this be anything other than a flamebait article Tim?

Well, to start with, it could be a tongue-in-cheek proposal just like the RFC it references as "enormously successful"...

Re:WTF? (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790511)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm [reference.com] :
sarcasm (skæzm)

— n
1. mocking, contemptuous, or ironic language intended to convey scorn or insult
2. the use or tone of such language

Lie (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790159)

Yeah. Because no one will lie about their citizenship.

This sounds like a great idea! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790185)

So in theory, anyone who's good can set this HTTP header flag and the terrorists who will honestly declare themselves bad will make sure this setting is unchecked. It seems like a pretty good idea at least, it will be easy to *actually* monitor those who are evil due to honesty at heart! I can't wait for this great SECURITY solution to finally arrive!!!!!!!%$^&^%*&^(*&( CARRIER LOST^] exit

X-No-Wiretap = stoops!
X-Fuck-Me-In-The-Asshole-Because-I-Can't-Even-Recognize-That-This-Is-Complete-Shit = extra-true!

Political Exploitation of Christian Doctrine (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790193)

Christianity: All stand guilty before God. Release from guilt results from trusting Christ's work.
NSA: All stand guilty before the government. There is no release from guilt other than becoming an elite.

Perhaps this is why there is so much vitriol against Christianity in particular.

--
Another fine opinion from The Fucking Psychopath®.

USA citizens safe, not care rest of world?? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790207)

It is always so irritating to see that this discussion turns into "I am USA citizen, do not spy on me, dear NSA!" What about rest of the world?? How come that in your US centric viewpoint it's all ok to spy on anyone else, just not on US citizens?? What about Europe? Other NATO allies? All ok to spy on everyone else, on your viewpoint!! Love that fat bellybutton of yours!

Re:USA citizens safe, not care rest of world?? (1)

stooo (2202012) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790319)

>> "I am USA citizen, do not spy on me, dear NSA!" What about rest of the world?

Being a citizen of country X or Y does not change anything, nobody cares in intelligence agencies. Being a citizen gives you no protection.

Re:USA citizens safe, not care rest of world?? (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790785)

Yep. The UK does the same thing. Sweden does the same thing. France do the same thing. I can only assume that pretty much everybody does the same thing.

Re:USA citizens safe, not care rest of world?? (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790321)

Because from a very young age Americans are fed the belief that they are somehow better and more free than anyone anywhere in the rest of the world and that people in other countries have a hard time even conceiving of the true concepts of "democracy and freedom". Those other people are foreign nationals and the ones that don't want to immigrate to America and emulate out way of life must certainly be jealous of it and out to destroy it.

Re:USA citizens safe, not care rest of world?? (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790843)

Ehm no, not at all actually. Americans are of course not "better" or "more free" than anyone else. What do you actually base that statement on? You might confuse better with proud. Most Americans are proud to be Americans. Is that bad? That says absolutely nothing about anyone else.

Re:USA citizens safe, not care rest of world?? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790367)

Whine to your own government to do its fucking job you ignorant shit.

Re:USA citizens safe, not care rest of world?? (2)

eheldreth (751767) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790455)

For people in the US they are two very different questions. Domestic spying in this regard is a violation of the citizenries constitutional rights. Foreign intelligence is a separate legal issue though with obviously connected mechanics. Most people int the US would feel it is wrong to spy on the citizens of an allied nation but this is a matter of priorities. Foreign policy can never be fixed so long as internal policy is so uncontrolled. In this case it is likely either the NSA will be scaled back resulting in less capacity for intelligence gathering in general or we will lose any pretext of being a free and functional democratic republic.

Re:USA citizens safe, not care rest of world?? (3, Insightful)

AxeTheMax (1163705) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790801)

Yes, Americans who think they value their liberty have a tendency to forget that their liberty depends also on the liberty of others. Starting with the slaves who their founding fathers conveniently forgot, now it is terrorists, criminals, citizens of 'enemy' countries, and finally all non citizens. As has been seen recently, spying on non-citizens gives the means to spy on citizens. What Americans have really is not liberty but power, and the Golden Rule (reciprocity) is inessential when you have power.

Re:USA citizens safe, not care rest of world?? (1)

kthreadd (1558445) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790909)

The majority of people that opposes the NSA spying of course wants the entire operation to cease. I don't understand what some people get anything else from. However, spying on foreign nationals is unfortunately not as tightly controlled as domestic spying. The NSA is forbidden (or should in theory be forbidden) from spying on domestic traffic. It's bad enough that they have been spying as widely as we now know, it's really bad if they actually are breaking the law as well.

Re:USA citizens safe, not care rest of world?? (1)

squiggleslash (241428) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790999)

Intelligence agencies have always, always, been mandated to spy on foreigners. (Of course, they've virtually always spied on non-foreigners too in practice.)

Should the CIA and NSA stop spying on Brits, Israelis*, etc? Well, only if MI-6 and Mossad stop spying on Americans. Which they won't.

* OK, I must admit that list is purposely short because I can't remember the names of most of our allies' intelligence agencies. You can fill in the rest though.

Re:USA citizens safe, not care rest of world?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44791139)

It is always so irritating to see that this discussion turns into "I am USA citizen, do not spy on me, dear NSA!" What about rest of the world?? How come that in your US centric viewpoint it's all ok to spy on anyone else, just not on US citizens?? What about Europe? Other NATO allies? All ok to spy on everyone else, on your viewpoint!! Love that fat bellybutton of yours!

Because the US Constitution applies to US citizens and the NSA is violating the law. Frankly, you are on your own - get your government to break treaties with the US, seize US assets in recompense, redesign their internet communications to be secure, or declare war - it is on you to defend your own.

And what makes you think (1)

Kanopy (3026223) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790229)

the ones that need spying on come from foreign sources? Seriously.

Obama Fellatio HQ (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790235)

Attention Obama Supporting Slashdot Douchenozzles!

You stupid fucking dorks, you supported Obama here like stink on shit, you have absolutely no right to complain. Shut up and enjoy your anal probe.

You have butr yourselves to thank!!! Oh the joy of statism! Bend over douchenozzles and suck up the Obama socialism!!! Get in line for your food stamps, government cheese and a colonoscpy!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-administration-had-restrictions-on-nsa-reversed-in-2011/2013/09/07/c26ef658-0fe5-11e3-85b6-d27422650fd5_story.html

"The Obama administration secretly won permission from a surveillance court in 2011 to reverse restrictions on the National Security Agency’s use of intercepted phone calls and e-mails, permitting the agency to search deliberately for Americans’ communications in its massive databases, according to interviews with government officials and recently declassified material.

In addition, the court extended the length of time that the NSA is allowed to retain intercepted U.S. communications from five years to six years — and more under special circumstances, according to the documents, which include a recently released 2011 opinion by U.S. District Judge John D. Bates, then chief judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. "

Tyranny!!! It's what's for dinner at Slashdot Socialist Central!

Re:Obama Fellatio HQ (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790413)

Oh I just love how you dorks can't help yourselves but to downmod me. Why is that you little jerkoffs?

This is *NOT* off topic. This *IS* truth.

You fuckwads get your little feelings hurt huh? Come on, one of you jack asses has to respond and tell me this is all BOOOSSSHEEESSS fault right? Come on jokers, BUSH=HITLER right?

RIGHT?

Fucking morons.

Re: Obama Fellatio HQ (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790463)

I didn't mod you but I'm guessing people are taking issue with your inflammatory phrasing, not your core points.

Re: Obama Fellatio HQ (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790641)

Oh do you think so genius?

I'll take a guess here, you have never asserted a conservative position here on Slashdot the echo chamber of socialism have you? No? Trust me, you get endlessly attacked and called names, derided and told to shut up. Oh and not just told to shut up but you will be modded out of posting privliges whatsoever.

Socialists and hard core libs are all the same, free speech only for those who agree with the socialists. Rights? Only for those who agree with the regime. Laws? Only apply to those who actually support the Constitution and not to the elites and the government. IRS? Fool, that is a tool of political opression not a tax collection agency.

The socialist lot are pissing on the Constitution and have done so for generations. Socialists support theft of my money, my healthcare and my civil liberties and rights, and all the while they mock and attack and parade their paper mache busts of GWB=HITLER signs.

And then Obama and the leftist cabal starts banging the war drum preparing to attack Syria, with NO STATE SECURITY INTERESTS AT ALL, and threatens to do so without the approval of congress and we call them on it this message is also ignored and shut down.

So, no, I am not in a polite fucking mood and I will not hold back my inflammatory phrasing thank you very much.

I hate socialists. And cowardly intellecually dishonest socialists are the worst fucking kind.

Re: Obama Fellatio HQ (1)

fritsd (924429) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790917)

It's difficult to understand your rant.

So, you hate socialists. Fine. That's your opinion.

But then you go on about Obama and "leftist cabal" and "the socialist lot are pissing on the Constitution".

To me, this means that you are talking about USA politics and name-calling the USA Democrat party as "socialist".

That doesn't make sense in the normal way the word "socialist" is used. The USA Democrat party is very right-wing. The USA Republican party is "bat-shit crazy" extreme right-wing. We outside the USA almost never hear about the left-wing or socialist parties and politics of the USA.

I have heard that you have a Green Party, used to be chaired by the famous Ralph "Seat Belt" Nader, now run by a lady named Cynthia McKinney. She's probably left-wing.

But if you want to see real socialist parties in action (4.5 % of the parliament), read here:

http://www.guengl.eu/group/delegations [guengl.eu] (I was going to send a link to SYRIZA.gr but my Greek is so poor I couldn't even find an english language link)

Oh yeah, and "Slashdot the echo chamber of socialism" ... LOL!

Re: Obama Fellatio HQ (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44791117)

Good grief I really don't have the patience to explain this to you. Socialist - big government, statist, collectivsm.

Democrats (US) = big government, progressive taxation, wealth redistribution, socialized medicine. Democrats are socialists, it's a fact. If you do not understand this I don't know how to help you. Ignore the Repiublicans, they are just liars and exist essentially so as to allow Democrats to maintain majories. They sometimes talk a good talk, but never support the conservative nor the constitution.

Not try and stay on topic, the people that suported Obama did so more out of Bush hatred than anything else, and vocally told us this Bush hatred was largely oriented on the war in Iraq. Now this was all a lie, but any Obama supporter who does not vocally and agressively denounce the statist war on Syria is a fool and a liar. This is my point.

Any questions?

And the rest of the world? (5, Insightful)

lurker412 (706164) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790265)

Few American commentators seem to be questioning the unstated assumption that spying on non-Americans is perfectly OK, even if there is no reasonable cause for suspicion. By that logic, it's perfectly OK for other countries to spy on all Americans.

Aren't we all entitled to a little privacy?

Re:And the rest of the world? (1)

BitZtream (692029) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790307)

We accept that if we enter your country, you might spy on us. When your data enters our country, we might spy on you. Facts of life. As American's 'thats the way its been'.

Of course, as we're seeing, thats not the way its been, but thats the way it was supposed to have been before they found a Hadoop cluster to process the data for them and spy on everyone.

Keep your data within your own borders, then you have a much easier challenge in obtaining privacy. In theory anyone, obviously, in practice we're fucked until we get rid of congress and the supreme court and replace them with people who are actually afraid of the public and the consequences of their actions coming back to haunt them.

First step: Public hangings for politicians who lie to the public for any reason. As judged by randomly selected citizens ... They don't get a jury of their peers since their peers just let them off with a free pass in exchange for the same favors.

Re:And the rest of the world? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790391)

So you're effectively saying that if you don't want to be spied on by any random government you shouldn't use any international companies, as you don't know whether any data you send will remain inside your borders?

The internet is global, the only practical way to keep data inside your own borders is to keep it off the internet and sitting under your desk. Though as we've seen even that may not be enough.

Re:And the rest of the world? (2)

Frosty Piss (770223) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790357)

Few American commentators seem to be questioning the unstated assumption that spying on non-Americans is perfectly OK, even if there is no reasonable cause for suspicion.

I don't know that this is true at all. What I suspect is that most Americans simply don't care. The Snowden Affair gets a lot of press, but that press gets very little traction except with a minority of Americans, which the rest think are wearing tin-foil hats.

But here's another thing to remember: Some Americans may be fixated on the idea of spying on Americans for both selfish reasons and also the fact that the NSA specifically isn't supposed to spy on Americans.

Re:And the rest of the world? (1)

Arker (91948) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790467)

It is a sad and shameful fact of American society that we have become more, not less, tribal since the Constitution was written, and a large number of us today do not seem to understand that other people have rights to.

Re:And the rest of the world? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790987)

Few American commentators seem to be questioning the unstated assumption that spying on non-Americans is perfectly OK, even if there is no reasonable cause for suspicion.

It's a fairly standard attitude. Same with the drone strikes - all the outrage over "Obama's executing US citizens without trial!!!!11!one", as though non-US-citizens are fair game for slaughter any time he feels like it.

Add an IPV6 bit for "international traffic" (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790329)

We should add a bit to IPv6 header which marks if the packet crossed international borders. Each edge router (both incoming and outgoing) if connected to an endpoint which originates from a source outside of the country must set the bit.

That way if the packet leaves the country before coming to you, you should know. If the packet re-enters the country (ie, it was set to 1 but the NSA turned it off to hide), again it should set it to 0.

This mean that that all inner-US traffic would have the bit set to 0. The NSA on receiving the packet must ignore it hopefully by court mandate. Of course, nothing really stops them, but, at least you as a citizen should be able to know in theory when a foreign government might also be snooping in addition to the NSA by knowing the packet left the domestic network.

Ogres have layers... Onions have layers... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790359)

Time for us all to take encryption seriously. To the ASCII table, and beyond!

Hilarious (1)

houbou (1097327) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790361)

We are expecting people who bend the rules to play nice.. Slick.. real slick..

Re:Hilarious (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790539)

I would like to introduce you to my dear friend, sarcasm [reference.com] (skæzm):

— n
1. mocking, contemptuous, or ironic language intended to convey scorn or insult
2. the use or tone of such language

I hope this be implementend (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790377)

In Wayland too.

Re:I hope this be implementend (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790959)

Sorry but Systemd has already implemented this feature.

Flame bait article.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790417)

This has got to be flame bait, because nothing about this guys blog screams SECURITY BLOGGER. Three whole posts tagged with Security....

Yeah that will work (1)

Dunbal (464142) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790481)

When confronted with a government entity that believes itself to be above the law and is routinely breaking the law, yeah, asking them not to hold on to your data. That will work. Right?

Because no one would lie (1)

WOOFYGOOFY (1334993) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790491)

Because no one would lie and terrorists are always foreign?

If we're going to solve this problem, let's state it clearly.

Small groups of people, with a limit now tending towards one, are acquiring the ability to inflict damage, now tending towards death, on larger and larger numbers of people, now tending towards everyone.

How can we stop them before they do that ? How do we need to arrange or change the things ion the world so that that never happens?

All of this Snvowden, NSA, War on Terror, WMD al Queda stuff flows directly from that basic fact.

We're never going to be in agreement on what to do until we're all on the same page as to what the problem really is. That's the problem.

Really, I don't see a solution outside of genetically engineering people so they don't want to do that. Religion doesn't work (fundamentalism of all kinds , Islamic and Christian) . Providing people with stuff and money doesn't work (bin Laden), education doesn't work (Pol Pot) democratic institutions don't work (Timothy McVeigh) . Maybe those things reduce the probability, the sheer availability of accomplices to a Pol Pot or a bin Laden. At best that buys us time.

I am not saying genetic engineering is what we should do. I can't even say that it will work, but that and making the creation of an equitable and fair world a top priority (as opposed to our current one- making small numbers of people very rich) are our best bet as far as we know.

Re:Because no one would lie (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44791013)

The solution is to stop making this problem bigger than it really is.

Yeah, terrorists could bomb public places, or hack critical infrastructure, and cause damage or even casualties. Yeah it's trending to larger numbers of people, simply because we are all more connected than ever before. But it is NOT 'trending towards everyone.' Phrases like that are just idiot scaremongering. What could one hacker accomplish? Cause a nationwide blackout, and everyone will go back to burning wood, until the situation is fixed, maybe some people on life-support will die. Fly into a building? Well, the rest of the city still stands, not to mention all other cities. Even if some evil genius manages to blow up the White House (or even, hell, nuke a major city), guess what... life goes on, and it will just be a matter of time until order is restored. People will mourn their lost ones and then continue with what they were doing.

The solution is to take whatever preventative measures are reasonable to reduce risks and also to accept that some dangers simply cannot be prevented without measures that are many times worse than the problem they are trying to solve. Somehow we all seem to have very differing opinions about what measures would be 'reasonable'. We do not send our kids outside wrapped in bubble-wrap suits to prevent them getting cuts and bruises, so why is everyone suddenly so hysterical when the topic is terrorism? Hurricanes, floods and other natural disasters cause many more deaths and damage in a year than every terrorist ever combined, yet no-one get's up in arms about those. People just cry when their house gets flattened, then get a fat check from insurance and build a new house on the exact same spot. Dykes get improved only after a whole city floods. Don't get me started on traffic.

Such hypocrisy or ignorance. The whole world would be better off if everyone would simply take a course on 'statistics and risk 101' simply to realize how utterly insignificant this terrorists and national security problem really is compared to the insane measures and expenses used to combat it.

Other necessary headers (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,7 days | (#44790601)

X-Apple-Pie
X-NASCAR-Fan
X-NRA-Member

"Please don't wiretap me" (1)

Horshu (2754893) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790673)

"Duhhhh, umm, OK."

Survey Form (1)

Tablizer (95088) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790681)

Somebody check-mark the "Crazed Bomber" box just to see what they do.

A Modest Proposal (2)

mthamil (1166787) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790691)

The number of commenters failing to understand that the article is satire is staggering. Hell, look at the "department" the article is from.

Once they're done cracking my TLS packet? (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790735)

If you're concerned about privacy and NSA can see your HTTP headers, then you're holding it wrong.

Stupidest idea ever (1)

msobkow (48369) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790897)

If you're not tracked by the NSA, you're tracked by some other nation's spy agency.

Headers are only voluntary.

So what, precisely, does this "new header" gain anyone except a circle-jerk of self-congralatory "we did something"?

Fourth Amendment (1)

saleenS281 (859657) | 1 year,7 days | (#44790899)

Remind me again where in the fourth amendment it says we only have protection against unreasonable search and seizures for information not crossing international borders?

And what on earth makes you think they'd honor these flags regardless? They've already proven they don't give a shit what the laws are, they're just going to keep doing whatever they want. Notice after a bunch of noise early on, the media and congress quickly moved on to Syria without so much as even publicly addressing the issue beyond saying "we expect them to follow the rules" - and by that they mean we expect they'll keep right on doing what they're doing.

Wow.. just wow.. (1)

somepunk (720296) | 1 year,7 days | (#44791039)

I thought I'd RTFA before leaping to judgment here. It's brilliant. The proposal is to send your full name and SSN in cleartext in the HTTP headers! I kid you not. There's a couple paragraphs of attention paid to the obvious questions, which basically amount to "don't worry, it'll work out for the best in the end!" To quote:

When what's at stake is the American way of life, it's easy to put aside things that don't really matter.

Which is right up there with "think of the children!" as a strong symptom of frontal lobe disengagement.

Indicating Citizenship? (1)

Toad-san (64810) | 1 year,7 days | (#44791041)

Oah yes, I am completely American, absolutely, you betcha! Mom and apple pie, verry good. Uncle Sam, hooray! I will be doing this for you every time, so you will be verry satisfied with this service.

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